Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-30 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Hi Job, > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:52:13AM +0600, Sumon Ahmed Sabir wrote: > > A new version of the proposal "prop-132: AS0 for Bogons" > > has been sent to the Policy SIG for review. > > > > Information about earlier versions is available from: > >

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-30 Thread Job Snijders
On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 03:55:00PM +0200, Job Snijders wrote: > As of now, there are XXX IPv4 and YYY IPv6 routes in the global Internet > routing table which cover address space managed by APNIC [snip] I took today's delegated-apnic-extended-latest file, grepped for 'available|reserved',

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-30 Thread Owen DeLong
led review of this proposal from a >>> service and legal perspective so the community can better understand >>> the implementation, if this proposal reaches consensus. >>> >>> >>> Kind regards >>> Javed Khan >>> MSCE and CCS

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-30 Thread Job Snijders
Dear all, I've reviewed the proposal, and while I haven't yet made up my mind whether this is a good or bad idea, I do want to propose some changes to the text because the current wording introduces some confusion in my operator mind. On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:52:13AM +0600, Sumon Ahmed Sabir

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-30 Thread Job Snijders
Dear all, I've yet to make up my mind about this proposal, but I wanted to point out an error in the interpretation of how RPKI based BGP Origin Validation works. On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 04:04:25PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Aug 28, 2019, at 13:44 , Aftab Siddiqui wrote: > > On Thu, 29

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-29 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
tion, if this proposal reaches consensus. > >> > >> > >> Kind regards > >> Javed Khan > >> MSCE and CCSP > >> > >> > >> > >

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-29 Thread Srinivas Chendi
>> MSCE and CCSP >> >> >> >> *From:* sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net >> on behalf of David Farmer >> >> *Sent:* Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM >> *To:

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Thanks David for your points, I'm working on v3 to address some of these concern. Regards, Aftab A. Siddiqui On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 3:22 PM David Farmer wrote: > The increased consequences of an APNIC Member failing to pay fees or the > extremely rare possibility of an error by APNIC Staff

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread David Farmer
The increased consequences of an APNIC Member failing to pay fees or the extremely rare possibility of an error by APNIC Staff should be called out as a potential impacts of the proposal in section 7. Personally, I support the proposal, but it is a matter of informed consent, the community needs

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Owen DeLong
> On Aug 28, 2019, at 20:37 , Aftab Siddiqui wrote: > > > Hi Owen, > cutting some stuff out, just to keep the thread small. > > Anyone can very quickly put just about anything in RADB if they want to. It’s > also relatively easy to put nearly anything in the current ARIN IRR (not to > be

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Hi Owen, cutting some stuff out, just to keep the thread small. Anyone can very quickly put just about anything in RADB if they want to. > It’s also relatively easy to put nearly anything in the current ARIN IRR > (not to be confused with the ARIN RIR database). There are also some other > IRRs

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Owen DeLong
clear enough expression. >> >> I will leave that for APNIC to respond and its a fair enough concern that a >> clarity is needed. >> >> >> That is my current question about this proposal. I am sure Javed will speak >> up if it doesn’t also reflect his question/conce

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
blem of understanding here? Also it’s seems you are fine with people advertising bogons just because fixing it might make one/two people unhappy. > Owen > > > >> J Khan >> >> -- >> *From:* Aftab Siddiqui >>

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Owen DeLong
From: Aftab Siddiqui <mailto:aftab.siddi...@gmail.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, 27 August 2019 6:16 PM > To: Owen DeLong mailto:o...@delong.com>> > Cc: Javed Khan mailto:javedkha...@outlook.com>>; > Policy SIG mailto:sig-pol...@apnic.net>>; Sumon Ahmed > Sabir mailto:s

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
very crucial for ISPs to sustain the fierce market > competition and if APNIC fails to timely update the AS0 ROAs, this will > effect the service delivery and/or network downtime. > > I request APNIC to provide a detailed review of this proposal from a > service and legal perspect

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Javed Khan
..@lists.apnic.net<mailto:sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net> mailto:sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net>> on behalf of David Farmer mailto:far...@umn.edu>> Sent: Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM To: Aftab Siddiqui mailto:aftab.siddi...@gmail.com>> Cc: Sumon Ahmed Sabir mailto:sasa...@g

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-28 Thread Javed Khan
: mailman_SIG-policy Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons Hi Javed, Thanks for your email and for your participation in the policy development process. We're consulting our experts to provide a response to your query soon. Please allow us sometime. Regards Sunny On 24/08/2019 12

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-27 Thread Owen DeLong
etition and if APNIC fails to timely update the AS0 ROAs, this will >> effect the service delivery and/or network downtime. >> >> I request APNIC to provide a detailed review of this proposal from a service >> and legal perspective so the community can better understan

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-27 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
pdate the AS0 ROAs, this will >> effect the service delivery and/or network downtime. >> >> I request APNIC to provide a detailed review of this proposal from a >> service and legal perspective so the community can better understand the >> implementation, if this proposa

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-26 Thread Owen DeLong
t>> on behalf of David Farmer > mailto:far...@umn.edu>> > Sent: Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM > To: Aftab Siddiqui <mailto:aftab.siddi...@gmail.com>> > Cc: Sumon Ahmed Sabir mailto:sasa...@gmail.com>>; Policy > SIG mailto:sig-pol...@apnic.net>>

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-26 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
mn.edu> > *Sent:* Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM > *To:* Aftab Siddiqui > *Cc:* Sumon Ahmed Sabir ; Policy SIG < > sig-pol...@apnic.net> > *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons > > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:04 PM Aftab Siddiqui > wrote:

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-26 Thread Srinivas Chendi
regards > Javed Khan > MSCE and CCSP > > > > *From:* sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net > on behalf of David Farmer > > *Sent:* Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM > *To:* Aftab Siddiqui > *Cc:* Sumon Ahmed Sa

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-23 Thread Javed Khan
From: sig-policy-boun...@lists.apnic.net on behalf of David Farmer Sent: Friday, 23 August 2019 10:48 AM To: Aftab Siddiqui Cc: Sumon Ahmed Sabir ; Policy SIG Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:04 PM Aftab Siddiqui

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-22 Thread David Farmer
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:04 PM Aftab Siddiqui wrote: > Hi David, > > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 6:36 AM David Farmer wrote: > >> The problem statement says; >> >> Bogons are defined in RFC3871, A "Bogon" (plural: "bogons") is a packet >> with an IP source address in an address block not yet

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-22 Thread Aftab Siddiqui
Hi David, On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 6:36 AM David Farmer wrote: > The problem statement says; > > Bogons are defined in RFC3871, A "Bogon" (plural: "bogons") is a packet > with an IP source address in an address block not yet allocated by IANA > or the Regional Internet Registries (ARIN, RIPE

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-22 Thread Owen DeLong
Most, if not all RIRs have a process for address recycling with appropriate hold-down times and grace periods for the resource holder to act to preserve their claim on the resources. It seems to me that lining this up with those procedures can be left as an operational manner at the discretion

Re: [sig-policy] prop-132-v002: AS0 for Bogons

2019-08-22 Thread David Farmer
The problem statement says; Bogons are defined in RFC3871, A "Bogon" (plural: "bogons") is a packet with an IP source address in an address block not yet allocated by IANA or the Regional Internet Registries (ARIN, RIPE NCC, APNIC, AFRINIC and LACNIC)... So that raises a question, what about