[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Thanks for the two cents, Rick. This project does have the water service stub in a less than ideal spot where the underground installer saved some money and left some of the “supply” piping for the sprinkler contractor to run. The area in question is in an above grade, enclosed and heated

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

I’m hope I’m not too late to jump into this conversation. As an old plan reviewer for the insurance industry and for a municipality, I have two issues with the suction piping arrangement. 1 - I can’t remember if it’s code or part of the old insurance rules, but I did not allow supply piping

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Kyle, I’m not sure how that would alert someone to flowing water, other than count the water that flowed. What am I missing? Taylor Schumacher ET On Aug 5, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Kyle.Montgomery wrote:  Also not free, but what about utilizing a backflow preventer with a detector assembly? Not an

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Those are often the things that people who make suggestions don’t have to consider. Taylor Schumacher ET From: Matt Grise Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 11:56 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line Are

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Right, I meant it to be dinging the bell for most expensive option. From what I’m gathering, the cons outweigh the pros on this one and I will just have to lean on the not required line. The input from the forumites and individuals at AFSA is great and I cannot over state just how awesome this

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Are you going to be able to get a change order from the owner to cover this suggestion from the plan reviewer? Matt From: Anthony Carrizosa Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 11:54 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Taylor Every time the jockey pump turns on it will ring the bell? Unless you use a very large retard chamber. From: Taylor Schumacher Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 8:44 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Ding Ding Ding (pun intended) I think we have a winner. Taylor Schumacher ET From: Vincent J. Como Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 10:41 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line If pressure isn’t the

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

My comments: The engineer of record or reviewer might be concerned with a supply pipe in a structure with no means of detecting a break or major leak. A waterflow switch could provide this piece of mind. However, I would be concerned about the water velocity limit of the wqte switch which

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

If pressure isn’t the issue…I vote water motor gong Thanks, [Proudly Saving Lives since 1978. Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. Minutes Matter.] Vinnie Como Commercial Designer Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc. ® 3226 Cherry Palm Dr, Tampa, FL

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Taylor, prompted by Anthony Carrisoza, I looked in the 2019 Handbook edition of NFPA 20, and found this item in §4.16.9.2(2): * /Where the authority having jurisdiction requires positive pressure to be maintained onthe suction piping, *_a pressure sensing line_* for a low suction

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

How about just a pressure switch? These are available in a listed configuration and would monitor the pipe integrity without the paddle issue. [Icon Description automatically generated] DAVID WILLIAMS, PE, FPE He/Him/His Senior Mechanical/Fire Protection Engineer See LHBcorp.com for states of

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

I used a similar phrase during the phone call to point me to the section where it is required. He was/is unable to supply code references for that requirement and pointed it out as such-it is merely a recommendation as he is concerned about damage to the piping or fittings causing water to

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Taylor, After reading your original post, and several of the responses, particularly that of Chris Dorn, I'm prompted to share my thoughts. * Is the AHJ looking for supervision of the appropriate suction pressure in that feed to the fire pump?  I'm sure you understand this - however

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Taylor, you could show him this section of NFPA 20. NFPA 20 2016 4.15.9* Devices in Suction Piping. 4.15.9.2 The following devices shall be permitted in the suction piping where the following requirements are met: (2) Where the authority having jurisdiction requires positive pressure to be

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Does he have the authority to require flow switches in excess of code requirements? Matt From: Taylor Schumacher Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 9:54 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line Independent

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Taylor I had a similar issue come up on a job I was working on and I showed the Engineer the specs on a flow switch, they only detect flow of 10GPM or more. So not really a leak detector. They only notify on a major flow of water which if you have more than 10GPM flowing in a garage people will

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Is there a way to do a pressure type flow switch and not a paddle type? Please rate our customer service Travis Mack, RME-G, COC, SET Senior Engineering Manager MFP Design 480-505-9271 ext. 700 C: 480-272-2471

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Independent reviewer representing the city. Taylor Schumacher ET From: Matt Grise Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 9:50 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line Just out of curiosity - who does this plan

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

It doesn’t, I’ll look into those options. Thanks for that idea! Taylor Schumacher ET From: Chris Dorn Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 8:52 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line Does the panel monitor low

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Just out of curiosity - who does this plan reviewer work for? Is it an owner's rep/engineer/insurance rep or a city code official? Matt From: Taylor Schumacher Sent: Friday, August 05, 2022 9:43 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum]

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

I thought about using the turbulence distances as a good practice. I have over 200 feet of pipe so the turbulence would not be a factor. The likelihood of the paddle becoming lodged and blocking water supply or worse getting sucked into the pump is the concern. We all know there is no code

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Does the panel monitor low suction? If so that would be an acceptable means of monitoring that pipe section. Chris Dorn [cid:image001.png@01D8A8B0.C08D0F10] From: Matt Grise Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 9:45 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject:

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Does the panel monitor low suction? If so that would be an acceptable means of monitoring that pipe section. Chris Dorn [cid:image001.png@01D8A8B0.22E67A30] From: Fpdcdesign Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 9:42 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject:

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

I get the concern also - but the request seems to be in direct contradiction to the code. And it introduces a paddle that could jam in the pipe or detach from the switch and flow into the pump. Many plan reviewers are limited to enforcing codes, not enforcing their personal preferences. Can

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

I would suggest you might need to provide the size and length of pipe before the suction flange, the pump size, and the water flow test information for an appropriate answer. Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Taylor Schumacher Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 8:35 AM

[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

Sounds like a really bad idea. Would a pressure gauge give him what he is looking for? > > On Aug 5, 2022 at 9:36 AM, (mailto:tay...@sfsprinkler.com)> wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have any experience with a paddle-type water flow detector in the

[Sprinklerforum] WFD In Pump Suction Line

Does anyone have any experience with a paddle-type water flow detector in the suction line of a fire pump? I have a long section of pipe between my backflow preventer and the suction flange of my pump that a plan reviewer wants supervised. I get the concern, but I have concerns with the paddle