RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

er.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 1:18 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Actually I pulled my punch there John. The best rules and interpretations are based on physics, no

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

d and beyond resuscitation. Steve Original message From: "rongreenman ." mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>> Date: 10/29/16 9:44 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Hydraulic los

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

ant to spend an extra 3 or 4 hours per calc boilng down these >> metrics, be my guest but as far as this discussion thread is concerned I'm >> pretty sure the horse is dead and beyond resuscitation. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> Original message

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

e Original message From: "rongreenman ." mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com>> Date: 10/29/16 9:44 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

ion. > > > Steve > > > Original message ---- > From: "rongreenman ." > Date: 10/29/16 9:44 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler > Outlet > > In y

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

thus reducing overflow,making the system demand lower >> by a fraction of a fraction of a PSI here and a GPM there. >> >> So if you want to spend an extra 3 or 4 hours per calc boilng down these >> metrics, be my guest but as far as this discussion thread is concerned I'm &g

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

erforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet In y experience with mech tees I always used the type with the lip so the hole size was substantially bigger for it than a elder outlet and the rubber was well away from the hole. That

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

or 4 hours per calc boilng down these >> metrics, be my guest but as far as this discussion thread is concerned I'm >> pretty sure the horse is dead and beyond resuscitation. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> Original message >>

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

oilng down these > metrics, be my guest but as far as this discussion thread is concerned I'm > pretty sure the horse is dead and beyond resuscitation. > > > Steve > > > ---- Original message ---- > From: "rongreenman ." > Date: 10/29/16 9:44 AM (GM

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

at :) Brad From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>] On Behalf Of Russell & Carol Gregory Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@list

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

; >>> >>> >>> A 1" tee in the table is 5' equivalent length. >>> >>> A mechanical tee with 1" outlet is 11' equivalent length. >>> >>> >>> >>> If the sprinkler is directly attached to the mechanical tee

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: 29 October 2016 17:24 To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet This is actually pretty dramatic Ron. In Russell's case, if the K25

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

>> >> >> When we got the recent response Gregory pasted, I asked the guy for the >> exact wording of the submitted question, but since submitting a question >> on-line 'disappears' once submitted, it was not available. He said he >> reworded mine a little, but thi

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

rinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-bounces@lists.firesprinkler. > org] *On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 10:19 AM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler > Outlet >

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 10:19 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Here is the e-mail I sent to our in-office guy whom submi

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

half Of Russell & Carol Gregory Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 10:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Ken, and others, We have been excluding the loss for a welded outlet or a mech tee when a spri

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Behalf Of svang...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, 28 October 2016 5:43 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet To expand on what Todd and Ken said. With regards to Flex drops in the standard, I know NFPA 13 (2013

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

forum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting Sent: Friday, 28 October 2016 3:56 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Russell, Mark and Todd are both correct. If the sprinkler is directl

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Friday, 28 October 2016 6:13 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Russell: What does the term "range pipe" refer to? St

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

*Subject:* RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Russell: What does the term "range pipe" refer to? Steve Leyton Original message From: Russell & Carol Gregory <mailto:rcgreg...@snap.net.nz>> Date: 10/27/16 1:31 AM (GMT-08:

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

ay, October 27, 2016 1:13 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet Russell: What does the term "range pipe" refer to? Steve Leyton Original message From: Ru

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Russell: What does the term "range pipe" refer to? Steve Leyton Original message From: Russell & Carol Gregory Date: 10/27/16 1:31 AM (GMT-08:00) To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outl

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Must confess that I have not reviewed the cut-sheet but ASSUME that it addresses this issue. Also note that extensions up to 2 inch is not required to be added to the calculation. Have not looked to see if any longer than 2 inch exist (since it is required to be listed). Also use of a longer

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

f Todd Williams Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:35 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet [https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/emailtag/tag/1477586127/01c6e4fe7e8b46e8dfef813adf427213/ecdd64c309bb

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Ken, I think your term is correct and NFPA needs to adjust. A 6' long fitting is a bit of a misnomer. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:54 AM, Parsley Consulting wrote: Todd, I agree completely with your thoughts. Per

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Todd, I agree completely with your thoughts. Perhaps my use of the other term was my old-school nature. One of the PI's submitted to change the requirements for seismic protection would make flexible fittings _*mandatory*_ in areas where the Cp value is greater than 0.50. While there m

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Ken, I brought that up because in NFPA 13, they are called "flexible fittings" not "flexible drops". My thinking is that FUBAR Fire Protection (or someone like them) is going to try to claim the since NFPA call them fittings that they won't have to include them in the calcs. Todd G Williams,

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Russell, Mark and Todd are both correct. If the sprinkler is directly attached to the fitting, in this case the welded outlet or mechanical tee, the friction loss through that fitting is excluded from the hydraulic calculations, per NFPA 13, 23.4.4.7.1(9). I don't know that I've ever h

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet I don't have a standard available, I'm on a road trip, but I believe somewhere in 13 under hydraulic calculation methods is a paragraph which states that it is not necessary to include t

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

And that does not apply to flexible fittings Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-608-4559 (cell) via Newton Mail [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ti&cv=9.1.28&pv=9.3.5&source=email_footer_2] On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, mphe...@a

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

I don't have a standard available, I'm on a road trip, but I believe somewhere in 13 under hydraulic calculation methods is a paragraph which states that it is not necessary to include the fitting into which the sprinkler head is installed in the hydraulic friction loss calculation. Mark at Aer

Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

I posted a message on this subject early this month but only received one reply(thanks Brad). This was surprising as I thought it was a serious problem if the full EQL for tee had to be added to calculations. Especially if the change was made on-site after design had been completed with welded outl

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

half Of *Brad Casterline > *Sent:* Wednesday, 5 October 2016 1:22 PM > *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > *Subject:* Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler > Outlet > > > > I don't know if this Forum is working or not Russell. > Somt

RE: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Brad your message came through fine, thank you. Russell From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brad Casterline Sent: Wednesday, 5 October 2016 1:22 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Hydraulic losses when using a

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

10-4 Todd thanks. We have out of town guests curious about how we do technical stuff here. So I was just doing a sound check. On Oct 4, 2016 7:24 PM, "Todd Williams" wrote: > Loud and clear in the upper right hand corner > > via Newton Mail >

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Loud and clear in the upper right hand corner via Newton Mail [https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=9.1.9&pv=10.0.2&source=email_footer_2] On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Brad Casterline wrote: I don't know if this Forum is working or not Russell. Somtimes it goes on the blink. I no lo

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

I don't know if this Forum is working or not Russell. Somtimes it goes on the blink. I no longer take myself so seriously as to think I could cause a meltdown. I was hoping I'd have like 40 e-mails in my in-box about this by now. Mr. Leyton? Is this thing working tonight as far as you know? b-ra

Re: Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

Russell, My understanding is we do not have to figure the loss for the fitting the sprinkler is in because when the K Factor was being established it was in a fitting. NFPA 13 (2016) 23.4.4.8.1 (9) confirms that. But it's a good question because we're supposed to use a manufacturer's published los

Hydraulic losses when using a Mechanical Tee on Sprinkler Outlet

When calculating a Range Pipe with welded threaded outlets for sprinklers it is not necessary to include a loss for the water leaving the range pipe and entering the sprinkler. The total pressure is assumed to apply to the sprinkler orfice. This means that a 80nb pipe with a 25nb outlet and a k36