RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Frank, Sweden have a higher living standard than US, according to statistics. I am not suggesting that it is a direct relationship between happiness and living standard, as it is between happiness and dumbness. Why I say this, is because the first I will hear when I say this, is something about living standard and the Swedish suicide rate. The latter is very exact in Sweden, contrary to catholic countries, where it is a sin to commit suicide. The high suicide rate is well compensated by the lower accident rate among Swedes and longer life expectancy. LOL Had to say the above sooner or later, since it will be brought up, when something is said about the Swedish living standard. Then to the base arguments. The Swedes use 1/3 and 1/4 of energy in housing, compared to US and Canada, after climate compensation. Sweden also have the same size relationships, when it comes to some countries in central and southern Europe. The Swedes and Europeans in general, uses around 50% of the fuel in transportation per distance, compared to US and Canada. This without a general use of hybrids or hydrogen -:), but with 30 to 50% of diesel vehicles, compared with US with a couple of percent. Despite the higher use of diesel vehicles, the pollution levels per distance is lower in Europe than US. It is no necessary relationship between living standard and energy use, but it is a clear relationship between dirtiness and energy efficiency. It is amazing that we need a Kyoto agreement to be clean, neat and efficient, but it is even more amazing that someone do not want to subscribe to it. Hakan At 12:44 AM 7/6/2005, you wrote: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_=_NextPart_001_01C581B3.1A7EE376 Before you throw up... Can you tell us the solution? Bio-fuel, wind, and solar are great starts on energy, but all combined are still a tiny drop in the bucket up against fossil fuels. If the oil stops - we starve. Ties to middle east oil are likely to drag us into WWIII (consult your Bible nightly news for details). Kyoto as it stands is nothing but a money and political power grab, I wouldn't support it either (and yes I have read it). Hydrogen/fuel cell cars are the low hanging fruit here, we can possibly cut auto fuel usage by 30%-40% through efficiency. I remember the fuel crisis of the 70's that resulted minor long term changes. Seams to me we do need a short term and long term policy... Short term, get as far away from the evils as possible (environmental, political, and economic). Long term, exploit every energy source possible. I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it. O-yes, I live in Kansas where people are fighting against wind farms (we are a high wind state) because it disrupts their view of the country side. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Redler Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:50 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able to contributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent posts caught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil, Bush said. Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology. Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like a tide resulting from global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh. He starts out with ...away from fossil fuels..., then differentiates who's fossil fuels with ...less dependence on foreign sources of oil. Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations $20 billion investment in hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstrating his steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to project concern toward (only the most uneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resources for conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture green products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Sweden have a higher living standard than US, according to statistics. I am not suggesting that it is a direct relationship between happiness and living standard, as it is between happiness and dumbness. Why I say this, is because the first I will hear when I say this, is something about living standard and the Swedish suicide rate. The latter is very exact in Sweden, contrary to catholic countries, where it is a sin to commit suicide. The high suicide rate is well compensated by the lower accident rate among Swedes and longer life expectancy. Beer is around $10 a pint and spirits up to $50 no wonder the suicide rate is so high. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/41 - Release Date: 05/07/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Snip. high suicide rate is well compensated by the lower accident rate among Swedes and longer life expectancy. Beer is around $10 a pint and spirits up to $50 no wonder the suicide rate is so high. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) Yes, but a lot of people make their own, many, many, many more than are into biodiesel! Cheers! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
and accident rate so low. -:) Hakan At 01:09 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote: Sweden have a higher living standard than US, according to statistics. I am not suggesting that it is a direct relationship between happiness and living standard, as it is between happiness and dumbness. Why I say this, is because the first I will hear when I say this, is something about living standard and the Swedish suicide rate. The latter is very exact in Sweden, contrary to catholic countries, where it is a sin to commit suicide. The high suicide rate is well compensated by the lower accident rate among Swedes and longer life expectancy. Beer is around $10 a pint and spirits up to $50 no wonder the suicide rate is so high. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/41 - Release Date: 05/07/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
"Can you tell us the solution?" and "I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it." tells me that you've missed the point. If you are the president of the United States and you're going to sell an alternative energy idea to your country, don't serve it to them half baked.My original post didn't make an argument for, or against a certain technology. It did however challenge his prioreties and the technical accuracy of hydrogen as an alternative to fossil fuels. A legitimate comparison issimply impossible because one is a source of energy and the other is a methodfor storing it. If you doubt this argument, ask yourself a question. What is the net energy gain of hydrogen as fuel? I'll give you a hint -- It's a negative number. Despite your questions being unrelated, I'll address them anyway: "Can you tell us the solution?" -- If there was "a" solution, you wouldn't need this forum or JTF. The reason we are all here is to discuss the possibilities and develop a consensus -- a process with only a beginning and no end. "I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it." -- I never implied that I have/had an all encompassing, "real world" solution. However, I do what I can to contribute as much as possible to this forum and listen to those who contribute to myeducation. Thisallowsme to further contribute and continue the cycle. Finally: "Ties to middle east oil are likely to drag us into WWIII (consult your Bible nightly news for details)." If you really believe that consulting my Bible or nightly news will help me find a solution to our energy problems, you're in the wrong forum. This kind of narrow mindedness implies that Christianity is the only path to enlightenment (and that I own a bible). This makes you a religious zealot. You're trust in the nightly news (despite discussions in this forum regarding the so called "main stream media") implies that you believe the white washed, corporate driven journalism that is carefully packaged and sold to us as news from "the free press". MikeFrank Dungan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Before you throw up... Can you tell us the solution? Bio-fuel, wind, and solar are great starts on energy, but all combined are still a tiny drop in the bucket up against fossil fuels. If the oil stops - we starve. Ties to middle east oil are likely to drag us into WWIII (consult your Bible nightly news for details). Kyoto as it stands is nothing but a money and politicalpower grab, I wouldn't support it either (and yes I have read it). Hydrogen/fuel cell cars are the low hanging fruit here, we can possibly cut auto fuelusage by30%-40%through efficiency. I remember the fuel crisis of the 70's that resulted minor long term changes. Seams to me we do need a short term and long term policy... Short term, get as far away from the evils as possible (environmental,political, and economic). Long term, exploit every energy source possible. I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it. O-yes, I live in Kansas wherepeople are fighting against wind farms (we are a high wind state) because it disrupts their view of the country side. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Michael RedlerSent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:50 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able tocontributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent postscaught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. "My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil," Bush said."Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology." Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like atideresultingfrom global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh.He starts out with "...away from fossil fuels...", then differentiates who's fossil fuels with "...less dependence on foreign sources of oil". Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations$20 billion investmentin hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstratinghis steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to projectconcern toward (only the mostuneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resourcesfor conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively pa
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it. Excuse me while I put my jack boots on How about we hijack the mainstream media and start brainwashing people with the notion that life is not about immediate gratification. (Don't expect the sheeple of america to go searching for the truth on the internet - no they need to be spoonfed) That there is a cost involved in everything we do, every choice we make, and that they need to consider that they might expect to live with less so that others can live with something. That we collectively in the developed world are complicit in all the death, suffering and destruction that takes place in this world, as a result of turning a blind eye while supporting the the selfish exploitive practices that bring all the above into existence in this world. That they are voting with thier dollars and currently they are voting for their own worst enemies and by doing so are creating a sense of hatred in other places in the minds of terrorists ( or is it freedom fighters I forget? ) who are attacking them as a result. Once we have people convinced to lower thier standard of living we can then mobilize them to kick the bastards out and enact a worldwide system of referendum to decide how we proceed with issues that need to be addressed. Here's a novel idea; we could even call it the united nation or something stupid like that. Heck we could spread some nukes around so that everyone at the table gets an equal share of respect while we're at it. Yeah there's nothing like the respect you get when you pull up your chair and lay your .45 down on the discussion table beside you. So how do you like me so far? Jack boots offflame suit on. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Hello again Joe I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it. Excuse me while I put my jack boots on How about we hijack the mainstream media and start brainwashing people with the notion that life is not about immediate gratification. (Don't expect the sheeple of america to go searching for the truth on the internet - no they need to be spoonfed) But they do go searching for truth on the Internet. After Sept 11 2001 the big British media websites were swamped with US visits - literally, in some cases, crash upgrades on servers. Not just Britain, Indian and Pakistani newspapers too, many others. It didn't die away. That there is a cost involved in everything we do, every choice we make, and that they need to consider that they might expect to live with less so that others can live with something. Do you know of the work of Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen? http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/georgescu.htm Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen, 1906-1994 There's some of his work here: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30418.html [biofuel] Energy and Economic Myths Selections from Energy and Economic Myths by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen His inheritors are the ecological economists, such as Herman Daly, Robert Costanza, Michael T. Klare, Joshua Farley and others. More: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34131.html [biofuel] From Here to Economy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30417.html [biofuel] How Much Is Nature Worth? For You, $33 Trillion http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34130.html [biofuel] At What Cost? - Costanza http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34129.html [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg34207.html Re: [biofuel] The Wealth of Nature That's a good read. That we collectively in the developed world are complicit in all the death, suffering and destruction that takes place in this world, as a result of turning a blind eye while supporting the the selfish exploitive practices that bring all the above into existence in this world. That they are voting with thier dollars and currently they are voting for their own worst enemies and by doing so are creating a sense of hatred in other places in the minds of terrorists ( or is it freedom fighters I forget? ) Many share your confusion but many of them find the US forces' role at least as confusing. who are attacking them as a result. Once we have people convinced to lower thier standard of living I doubt it's even necessary - I think they have to change the style, not the standard. we can then mobilize them to kick the bastards out and enact a worldwide system of referendum to decide how we proceed with issues that need to be addressed. Here's a novel idea; we could even call it the united nation or something stupid like that. Heck we could spread some nukes around so that everyone at the table gets an equal share of respect while we're at it. Yeah there's nothing like the respect you get when you pull up your chair and lay your .45 down on the discussion table beside you. Just as long as everyone else has got one too, in which case you might as well have left them all at the door. The mature, and most effective, use of power is to refrain from using it. Apart from that... So how do you like me so far? Jack boots offflame suit on. :-) Nothing much to argue about there, sorry to disappoint your flame suit. Best wishes Keith Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
I'm a nice guy - no flame suit required, but I see no real answers... I hate feeding our enemies as much as anybody.What was the solution? World government? That's a little scary, and the UN is a disaster. It takes energy to keep this many people alive in the world. The question is how do we pull it off? -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Joe StreetSent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 10:28 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it.Excuse me while I put my jack boots onHow about we hijack the mainstream media and start brainwashing people with the notion that life is not about immediate gratification. (Don't expect the sheeple of america to go searching for the truth on the internet - no they need to be spoonfed) That there is a cost involved in everything we do, every choice we make, and that they need to consider that they might expect to live with less so that others can live with something. That we collectively in the developed world are complicit in all the death, suffering and destruction that takes place in this world, as a result of turning a blind eye while supporting the the selfish exploitive practices that bring all the above into existence in this world. That they are voting with thier dollars and currently they are voting for their own worst enemies and by doing so are creating a sense of hatred in other places in the minds of terrorists ( or is it freedom fighters I forget? ) who are attacking them as a result. Once we have people convinced to lower thier standard of living we can then mobilize them to kick the bastards out and enact a worldwide system of referendum to decide how we proceed with issues that need to be addressed. Here's a novel idea; we could even call it the united nation or something stupid like that. Heck we could spread some nukes around so that everyone at the table gets an equal share of respect while we're at it. Yeah there's nothing like the respect you get when you pull up your chair and lay your .45 down on the discussion table beside you. So how do you like me so far?Jack boots offflame suit on.Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
my favorite part waswhere he mentions"harnessing greenhouse gasses". harness them for what? is this yet another"bubba-ism", or something very orwellian disguised as one? -chris b.-Original Message-From: Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:49:56 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able tocontributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent postscaught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. "My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil," Bush said."Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology." Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like atideresultingfrom global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh.He starts out with "...away from fossil fuels...", then differentiates who's fossil fuels with "...less dependence on foreign sources of oil". Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations$20 billion investmentin hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstratinghis steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to projectconcern toward (only the mostuneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resourcesfor conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture "green" products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/03/g8.bush.ap/index.html CNN.com - - Jul 3, 2005 Bush wants to shift global warming debate Sunday, July 3, 2005; Posted: 11:24 p.m. EDT (03:24 GMT) Bush: You can grow your economy and at the same time do a better job of harnessing greenhouse gases. LONDON, England (AP) -- Ahead of this week's G8 summit, President Bush says he wants to shift debate on global warming away from limits on greenhouse gas emissions to new technology that would reduce environmental harm without restricting energy use. In an interview with British journalist Trevor McDonald to be broadcast on ITV television Monday, Bush repeated his opposition to the Kyoto Protocol on climate change and said the United States would not sign it or any similar deals limiting gas emissions. I think you can grow your economy and at the same time do a better job of harnessing greenhouse gases, Bush said. That's exactly what I intend to talk to our partners about. British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who hosts the three-day summit of major industrial powers that begins Wednesday in Scotland, plans to make action on global warming a top focus along with tackling poverty in Africa. Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology. The Bush administration opposes the 1997 Kyoto treaty because officials believe it would raise energy prices and cost 5 million U.S. jobs. My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil, Bush said. Blair, who has described global warming as probably the most serious threat we face wants an agreement among G8 leaders on the scientific threat posed by global warming and the urgent need for action. He also wants greater research in so-called green technology, and to draw emerging economies such as China, India, Brazil and Mexico into the debate. Prospects of agreement when the leaders of the United States, Russia, France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan join Blair in Gleneagles, Scotland, remain uncertain. Bush described climate change as a significant, long-term issue that we've got to deal with and acknowledged that human activity is to some extent to blame. Bush also made it clear that he was not ready to slash the farm subsidies that critics say distort global trade and make it difficult for African economies to compete unless the European Union was also prepared to scrap its Common Agricultural Policy. We've got agricultural subsidies, not nearly to the extent that our friends in the EU have, he said. ... The position of the U.S. government is, we're willing to do so and we will do so with our fine friends in the European Union. In the interview, Bush was also asked if he would make a special effort to support Blair at the summit in return for the British leader's backing for the war in Iraq. I really don't view our relationship as one of quid pro quo, Bush replied. Tony Blair made decisions on what he thought was best for keeping the peace and winning the war on terror, as I did. So I go to the G8 not really trying to make him look bad or good, but I go to the G8 with an agenda that I think is best for our country. Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5117756,00.html Guardian Unlimited | World Latest | Schwarzenegger Urges Global Warming Action Schwarzenegger Urges Global Warming Action Monday July 4, 2005 6:16 PM AP Photo NY109 By The Associated Press LONDON (AP) - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is urging governments - including that of President Bush - to face up the reality of global warming. ``The debate is over,'' he wrote in Britain's Independent on Sunday newspaper. ``We know the science. We see the threat posed by changes in our climate. And we know the time for action is now.'' Schwarzenegger, a Republican, did not mention Bush by name, but called on ``governments everywhere'' to join action to combat climate change. He contradicted Bush's claims that taking action will damage the U.S. economy. Climate change is one of the major issues expected to be discussed at the upcoming Group of Eight summit at the Gleneagles resort in Scotland. Schwarzenegger has vowed to make California a leader in the battle against global warming, calling on the state to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases while increasing use of renewable energy. ``Global warming threatens California's water supply, public health, agriculture, coastlines and forests - our entire economy and way of life,'' Schwarzenegger wrote. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able tocontributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent postscaught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. "My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil," Bush said."Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology." Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like atideresultingfrom global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh.He starts out with "...away from fossil fuels...", then differentiates who's fossil fuels with "...less dependence on foreign sources of oil". Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations$20 billion investmentin hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstratinghis steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to projectconcern toward (only the mostuneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resourcesfor conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture "green" products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Mike, It is an excellent example on how it goes, when you try to hide and not acknowledge that the mad cow decease hit US a long time ago. Not being able to keep the balance is a clear sign. Cannibalism is also recognized as a root cause. I am not saying that Bush is one of the victims, probably not, since the mad cow decease is a degeneration of brain cells and without them, no mad cow decease. Hakan At 11:49 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able to contributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent posts caught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil, Bush said. Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology. Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like a tide resulting from global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh. He starts out with ...away from fossil fuels..., then differentiates who's fossil fuels with ...less dependence on foreign sources of oil. Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations $20 billion investment in hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstrating his steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to project concern toward (only the most uneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resources for conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture green products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
RE: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Before you throw up... Can you tell us the solution? Bio-fuel, wind, and solar are great starts on energy, but all combined are still a tiny drop in the bucket up against fossil fuels. If the oil stops - we starve. Ties to middle east oil are likely to drag us into WWIII (consult your Bible nightly news for details). Kyoto as it stands is nothing but a money and politicalpower grab, I wouldn't support it either (and yes I have read it). Hydrogen/fuel cell cars are the low hanging fruit here, we can possibly cut auto fuelusage by30%-40%through efficiency. I remember the fuel crisis of the 70's that resulted minor long term changes. Seams to me we do need a short term and long term policy... Short term, get as far away from the evils as possible (environmental,political, and economic). Long term, exploit every energy source possible. I you have any viable real world solutions lets hear it. O-yes, I live in Kansas wherepeople are fighting against wind farms (we are a high wind state) because it disrupts their view of the country side. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Michael RedlerSent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:50 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able tocontributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent postscaught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. "My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil," Bush said."Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology." Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like atideresultingfrom global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh.He starts out with "...away from fossil fuels...", then differentiates who's fossil fuels with "...less dependence on foreign sources of oil". Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations$20 billion investmentin hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstratinghis steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to projectconcern toward (only the mostuneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resourcesfor conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture "green" products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate
Ha, very true. It is quite annoying that the American public is so blinded by television that if they tell you there's no mad cow you better believe it. I fear it is also this sense of American bravado that says, it won't happen to us, we're American. People have already forgotten we said that on September 10th 2001. So many people, so few of them with minds. Ryan - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bush wants to shift global warming debate Mike, It is an excellent example on how it goes, when you try to hide and not acknowledge that the mad cow decease hit US a long time ago. Not being able to keep the balance is a clear sign. Cannibalism is also recognized as a root cause. I am not saying that Bush is one of the victims, probably not, since the mad cow decease is a degeneration of brain cells and without them, no mad cow decease. Hakan At 11:49 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote: OK, I've been a little preoccupied lately and haven't been able to contributions to recent discussions. However, one of Kieth's recent posts caught my attention. Please allow me to vent. ...I'm quoting parts of Kieth's post in reverse order. My hope is -- and I think the hope of Tony Blair is -- to move beyond the Kyoto debate and to collaborate on new technologies that will enable the United States and other countries to diversify away from fossil fuels so that the air will be cleaner and that we have the economic and national security that comes from less dependence on foreign sources of oil, Bush said. Bush spoke of his administration's investment of $20 billion (16.55 billion euros) in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles, zero-emission power stations and other technology. Bush's position shifts like the tide -- like a tide resulting from global warming and which might swallow Bangladesh. He starts out with ...away from fossil fuels..., then differentiates who's fossil fuels with ...less dependence on foreign sources of oil. Finally, (In an earlier statement) he spoke of his administrations $20 billion investment in hydrogen powered vehicles, demonstrating his steadfast commitment to oil interests. He wants to project concern toward (only the most uneducated) environmentalists with a technology that addresses the storage of energy and not sustainable resources for conversion. At the same time, he chooses a cause which the oil industry can actively participate. Finally, a low emphasis on greenhouse gas emissions is an invitation for some companies to manufacture green products with no regard to the manufacturing processes and how it contributes to global warming -- thus, defeating the purpose. I think I need to throw up now. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
