Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On May 25, 2015, at 6:53 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... The water careened off the cliff. The car careened off the cliff The error cascaded through the computers The water cascaded off the rocks, People who would refer to a singular waterfall as a cascade are incorrect. People who refer to the action of the water (it cascaded down the cliff) are not so far off, but it would not be referred to as a cascade. But people muddy the meaning with incorrect usage. The example pic I linked to is different than all the waterfalls I have seen. Also - saying a waterfall is a reflecting pool is very disingenuous - it's not that it reflects - it's *what* it reflects - usually some kind of scenery or famous architecture. in particular, a waterfall is not a pool. Reflection of light is what it makes look interesting (glitter) And they make rainbows and icicles too. J ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 11:53:48PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... in some languages a cascade is any series of things, be it electronic switches in circuits or waterfalls - even in English as I have just noticed from reading wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cascade So cascade would be a true weasel tag. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
Am 25.05.2015 um 13:37 schrieb Richard ricoz@gmail.com: in some languages a cascade is any series of things, be it electronic switches in circuits or waterfalls - even in English as I have just noticed from reading wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cascade So cascade would be a true weasel tag. yes, it is typical for words to have different meanings in different contexts, but water=cascade will be much less a weasel than the word cascade alone cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 01:46:18PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: So cascade would be a true weasel tag. yes, it is typical for words to have different meanings in different contexts, but water=cascade will be much less a weasel than the word cascade alone still enough of a weasel word. still weasel enough. Could be a single waterfall, a series of them or this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau-Kaskade Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
2015-05-25 17:11 GMT+02:00 Richard ricoz@gmail.com: [water=cascade] still weasel enough. Could be a single waterfall, a series of them or this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau-Kaskade fountain_type=cascade should make the object clear if you'd want to be more specific: start_date=1500-1600 -- https://www.pinterest.com/pin/305189312221270405/ start_date=1992 might look like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountains_in_Paris#/media/File:Parc_Andr%C3%A9_Citroen_-_Ballon_%283%29.JPG cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. Wether that is natural or artificial, I'm not sure there's a distinction. http://www.tripadvisor.com/MobileViewPhoto-g298182-d1311890-i131738347-Ryuzu_Waterfall-Nikko_Tochigi_Prefecture_Kanto.html I've visited a lot of waterfalls, and all of them go from top to bottom in a single fall - a water fall The one linked to is referred to by many as a cascade - because it is made of many little waterfalls stuck together sliding over rocks. This is further muddied because cascade is a verb - and streams and rough rivers cascade through a steep canyon. Also - saying a waterfall is a reflecting pool is very disingenuous - it's not that it reflects - it's *what* it reflects - usually some kind of scenery or famous architecture. The smooth calm waters offer views of surrounding trees, buildings and in some cases mountains - but are made and constructed for this purpose (as opposed to natural lakes, such as the ones around my Fuji which naturally reflect the mountain, offing interesting pictures). Many city parks offer them to reflect the view of the buildings - such as the big pool in the national mall in Washington, D.C. J Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2015, at 3:45 AM, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: On 23 May 2015 at 11:09, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 03:54:57PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. Is that relevant ? ;) Is there really a problem with Americans relearning what words mean ? Actually, Merriam-Webster seems to have it right - even in American !: a small, steep waterfall; especially : one that is part of a series of waterfalls Although this points to an American cascades as being one part of an English cascade ! America uses 'waterfall' too - it seems 'cascade' is agreeable even if not realised! -- Mike. @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via the area's premier website - currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets TCs ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... Also - saying a waterfall is a reflecting pool is very disingenuous - it's not that it reflects - it's *what* it reflects - usually some kind of scenery or famous architecture. in particular, a waterfall is not a pool. Reflection of light is what it makes look interesting (glitter) cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 24 May 2015 at 22:53, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Am 24.05.2015 um 14:36 schrieb John Willis jo...@mac.com: I always thought a cascade is a series of waterfalls connected together. I thought it was a word for a single waterfall as well... Only where the water hits other things on the way down causing the water to cascade. -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 03:54:57PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. How, then would you describe: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Water_Feature_in_Cabot_Place,_Canary_Wharf_%282%29_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1472986.jpg it could be a weir and waterfall http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Waterfalls#Artificial_waterfalls or some kind of playground Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 23 May 2015 at 11:09, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 03:54:57PM +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. Is that relevant ? ;) Is there really a problem with Americans relearning what words mean ? Actually, Merriam-Webster seems to have it right - even in American !: a small, steep waterfall; *especially* : one that is part of a series of waterfalls Although this points to an American cascades as being one part of an English cascade ! America uses 'waterfall' too - it seems 'cascade' is agreeable even if not realised! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
Am 22.05.2015 um 12:28 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: Cascades, by their very nature, are not suitable for reflecting as the water is agitated. maybe this is a language issue, I would have thought they would reflect anyway but you wouldn't see a clear picture (I agree that reflection_pool is not the right term nonetheless, nor does the wiki suggest so) Maybe water=cascade could be the right fit. Probably, but I'd like more opinions; and other options - cascades are just one example. what are the other examples? We cannot propose tags if you don't say what you want to tag ;-) cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 15 May 2015 at 12:25, pmailkeey . pmailk...@googlemail.com wrote: 'Pond' seems to fit the bill: No, it does not. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 15 May 2015 at 16:40, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote: Wiki suggests natural=water + water=reflecting_pool: Cascades, by their very nature, are not suitable for reflecting as the water is agitated. There may also be no horizontal surface to speak of. Maybe water=cascade could be the right fit. Probably, but I'd like more opinions; and other options - cascades are just one example. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 22 May 2015 at 12:03, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: what are the other examples? We cannot propose tags if you don't say what you want to tag ;-) man-made, ornamental water features, which are not fountains These might be cascades, rills, reflecting-pools, rain-chains, moats, etc. We might, for example, have: natural=water water=cascde etc. - but not: water=fountain as we already have amenity=fountain or we could have: amenity=cascade -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
Am 22.05.2015 um 13:35 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: These might be cascades, rills, reflecting-pools, rain-chains, moats, etc. We might, for example, have: natural=water water=cascde etc. - but not: water=fountain as we already have amenity=fountain or we could have: amenity=cascade where's the problem then? add natural =water to all water areas and specify further with water=* (cascade, rill, rain-chain, ...) As we have seen, the current wiki docu doesn't detail these kind of features so feel free to propose an addition cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 09:26:34AM -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote: The water feature we are talking about here is an artificial waterfall, usually pump-driven. in that case it might be better to either use normal waterfall tagging node with waterway=waterfall+ way waterway=weir, possibly also waterway=dam and man_made=yes or a distinct tag which is not so easy to confuse as synonymous. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 22 May 2015 at 15:29, Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com wrote: I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. How, then would you describe: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Water_Feature_in_Cabot_Place,_Canary_Wharf_%282%29_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1472986.jpg ? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 22 May 2015 at 15:54, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: How, then would you describe: Or these: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Site_of_Priory_Mill_-_geograph.org.uk_-_288573.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Luxury_apartments,_Dickens_Heath_Village,_Solihull_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1720292.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CASCADING_FOUNTAIN,_FROM_FRONT,_CLOSER_-_Harold_Lloyd_Estate,_Beverly_Hills,_Los_Angeles_County,_CA_HABS_CAL,19-BEVHI,2-18.tif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20070616_Crown_Fountain_%287%29.JPG -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
The water feature we are talking about here is an artificial waterfall, usually pump-driven. On May 22, 2015 9:19:44 AM Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 22.05.2015 um 13:35 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: These might be cascades, rills, reflecting-pools, rain-chains, moats, etc. We might, for example, have: natural=water water=cascde etc. - but not: water=fountain as we already have amenity=fountain or we could have: amenity=cascade I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. I agree. A cascade is a waterfall in American English. On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 22.05.2015 um 13:35 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk : These might be cascades, rills, reflecting-pools, rain-chains, moats, etc. We might, for example, have: natural=water water=cascde etc. - but not: water=fountain as we already have amenity=fountain or we could have: amenity=cascade I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 22.05.2015 um 13:35 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: These might be cascades, rills, reflecting-pools, rain-chains, moats, etc. We might, for example, have: natural=water water=cascde etc. - but not: water=fountain as we already have amenity=fountain or we could have: amenity=cascade I am uncomfortable with cascade - in several languages it means waterfall so there is considerable potential for confusion. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
How about fountain_cascade or waterfall_artificial? It's a tricky proposition. On Friday, May 22, 2015, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 22 May 2015 at 15:54, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk javascript:; wrote: How, then would you describe: Or these: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Site_of_Priory_Mill_-_geograph.org.uk_-_288573.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Luxury_apartments,_Dickens_Heath_Village,_Solihull_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1720292.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CASCADING_FOUNTAIN,_FROM_FRONT,_CLOSER_-_Harold_Lloyd_Estate,_Beverly_Hills,_Los_Angeles_County,_CA_HABS_CAL,19-BEVHI,2-18.tif https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:20070616_Crown_Fountain_%287%29.JPG -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org javascript:; https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
A lot of those end up as natural=water. I suppose man_made=yes could be added. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Water featuers
How should we tag man=made, ornamental water features, which are not fountains? For example, a cascade? The wiki pages at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Water http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfountain are of little help in this regard. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
2015-05-15 8:48 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: How should we tag man=made, ornamental water features, which are not fountains? For example, a cascade? fountains also require a natural=water for the effective water areas. See here: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/705 A cascade could be waterway=cascade? Or is it a waterfall? For areas you can maybe find something here (reflection_pool?) or invent something new along these classes: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_details I've recently mapped this as (one) fountain, although there isn't any water sputtering more than 10 cm (I'd call this a cascade), maybe also your ornamental water features can be considered fountains? Do you have a picture? [image: Inline-Bild 1] Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
'Pond' seems to fit the bill: OED: A small body of still water of artificial formation, made either by excavating a hollow in the ground or by embanking and damming up a watercourse in a natural hollow. On 15 May 2015 at 12:13, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: On 15/05/2015 4:55 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: A lot of those end up as natural=water. I suppose man_made=yes could be added. The 'Pool of Reflection' Sydney is simply tagged natural=water name=Pool of Reflection Way: 182625202 That is an ornamental memorial pool. Flat. I've added a just cascade .. natural=water name=Fig Grove It would be rendered .. but nothing special to mark it as a cascade. Rivers and streams get directional arrows .. but then cascades may be confused with them. May be an arrow with a flattened point would do.. but you'll need some tag for it and a wiki page. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
On 15/05/2015 4:55 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: A lot of those end up as natural=water. I suppose man_made=yes could be added. The 'Pool of Reflection' Sydney is simply tagged natural=water name=Pool of Reflection Way: 182625202 That is an ornamental memorial pool. Flat. I've added a just cascade .. natural=water name=Fig Grove It would be rendered .. but nothing special to mark it as a cascade. Rivers and streams get directional arrows .. but then cascades may be confused with them. May be an arrow with a flattened point would do.. but you'll need some tag for it and a wiki page. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Water featuers
pet, 15. svi 2015. 13:15 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com je napisao: On 15/05/2015 4:55 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: A lot of those end up as natural=water. I suppose man_made=yes could be added. The 'Pool of Reflection' Sydney is simply tagged natural=water name=Pool of Reflection Way: 182625202 That is an ornamental memorial pool. Flat. Ups, i changed the title. Anyway: Wiki suggests natural=water + water=reflecting_pool: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:water#Possible_values Maybe water=cascade could be the right fit. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
