Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

. 2019 г. в 13:17, Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > sent from a phone > > > On 16. Jan 2019, at 10:39, Eugene Podshivalov > wrote: > > > > No need to introduce any new tags. > > > While I mostly agree with your interpretations, there are still some > problems:

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

The confusion is mainly in the difference between irrigation canals vs irrigation ditches and drainage diches vs drains. In practice wide irrigation channels are called canals whereas small ones are called diches and people tend to tag them as such. This tendency is enforced by the fact that

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

> > =drain > suggested: Use waterway > =drain for artificial waterways > , typically lined with > concrete or similar, usually used to carry water for drainage or > irrigation purposes. > > =ditch >

[Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

This email is a forward message of this forum topic https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=64704 I guess this topic has been raised may times already but let me add to it. Right now OSM is a collection of dots and lines with some generic tags for rendering them on a map. They do compile

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Marc and OSMDoudou, I did see that in France they put their local school categories into "school:FR" tag but do you think this approach can be propogated for all other categories? E.g. in Russian there are different types of man-made small bodies of water. Will it work to denote them as

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

t;École primaire", into an > US or UK based context: let the French decide... > > I have the same problem for some shop categories which are not part of the > US/UK tradition: an Italian "salumeria" [1] is in no way similar to a US > "deli" shop... > >

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

nd systematically. Let's take at look >> at this spot in the centre of Paris >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028 >> You can see category names displayed everywhere there, e.g. musium, >> hotel, school (in French). >> As a result when you query OS

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

I assume that the aforementioned issue with the official classification of settlement being deferent from the place tags values is faced in many countries. So some common approach is needed here. There were many solutioned listed above, but it seems that only the following two are suitable for

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

description - is used for other purposes already - it lets you describe an object in free manner which can be several sentances long. чт, 6 дек. 2018 г. в 12:50, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > On 06/12/18 20:25, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > Let me clarify the meaning of thos

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Let me clarify the meaning of those Russian words "пруд" - is usually a natural but modified by a man body of water which is smaller than lake. this is usually translated as "pond" "копанка" - is a very small body of water, escavated by an individual family for private fishing, usually of a square

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

: all it does is > to move the problem from one place to another: how would you make up the > name for one of yours пруд or копанка in English? > > On 2018-12-06 12:51, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > Another solution is to always put category name into "name" field. "P

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

And how would you translate into French such American waterway=stream's as “Bull Run”, “Walker Creek”, “Johnson’s Brook”, etc. чт, 6 дек. 2018 г. в 15:25, Eugene Podshivalov : > Sergio, >> >> how would you make up the name for one of yours пруд or копанка in >> English? >

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

r forest settlements" (only > loosely related to the notion of cantons) > > In both cases naming the lake "Lucerne" or "Vierwaldstätten" would > obviously be nonsense. > > Simon > > Am 05.12.2018 um 19:55 schrieb marc marc: > > Le 05. 12. 18 à 19:3

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

ses" etc? чт, 6 дек. 2018 г. в 15:17, Eugene Podshivalov : > I am pursonally not in favour of the solution with category names in the > "name" but have mentioned it because it is currently used in every country > for highway=residential ways. > > чт, 6 дек. 2018 г. в

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Let's look into some other examples. Settlements are supposed to be defined with place=city/town/village/hamlet/isolated_dwelling tags. The value depends on the size of the settlement. But in Belarus for example we call our settlements "город" (can be city or town), "городской посёлок" (can be

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

f you ask someone "where is 'The 4 cantons""? ср, 5 дек. 2018 г. в 21:56, marc marc : > Le 05. 12. 18 à 19:36, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit : > > The name tag is abused very often and systematically. > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.86138/2.36028 > > j

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

OSMDoudou, > Do you mean "École primaire des Quatre Fils" doesn't have a proper name ? > What would be a better name ? I would say that the category is "École primaire" and the proper name is "des Quatre Fils" but the the commonly used phrase is all together. The question was about some general

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

tagging. > The same issues can raise on geospatial db as well don't you ? > > All the best > > François > > Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 16:50, Eugene Podshivalov a > écrit : > >> This email is a forward message of this forum topic >> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/v

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

г. в 20:25, Martin Koppenhoefer : > > > Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 16:50 Uhr schrieb Eugene Podshivalov < > yauge...@gmail.com>: > >> I invision the following solution here. >> >> * First of all, the "name" tag should containt proper name only. >> &g

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

> All the best > > François > > Le mer. 5 déc. 2018 à 18:35, Eugene Podshivalov a > écrit : > >> Hi François, >> I guess you come from France, so let's me try to get some example >> applicable to your location. >> I do not know much about edicua

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

Let me give you some more examples. 1. place=locality is defiend as "A named place that has no population". In Belarus/Russia there are three categories of objectes which match this definition: - an abandoned settlement - a named natural place - a named spot within a settlement The common name of

[Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Hi all, Can anyone please explain the difference between waterway=ditch and drain? As far as I understand the description on the English wiki they differ in usage: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:waterway drain - usually lined with concrete or similar and used to carry superfluous water

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

пт, 11 янв. 2019 г. в 02:50, Joseph Eisenberg : > Ditches are also used to drain excess water. > > In the USA we have irrigation ditches in dry areas and drainage ditches in > wet areas. > > Britain seems to lack irrigation - plenty of rain there. If you use "ditch" for both land irrigation and

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

How about the following definitions? drain - an artificial free flow waterway typically lined with concrete or similar used for carrying storm water or industrial discharge ditch - an artificial free flow waterway used for draining or irrigating land Eugene пт, 11 янв. 2019 г. в 12:02,

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

, Markus : > On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:42, Eugene Podshivalov > wrote: > > > > Markus, you can find that in the "How to Map" section of the ditch > proper page: > > "If the ditch is used for irrigation, the usage of irrigation=yes is > proposed."

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Tod, what would be definition of "drain"? Eugene пт, 11 янв. 2019 г. в 21:10, Tod Fitch : > > > On Jan 11, 2019, at 8:36 AM, ael wrote: > > > > As a native speaker, I do not recognise "canal" as appropriate for > > irrigation. That is not to say that some canals may also be used > > partly for

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

i! > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 00:40, Eugene Podshivalov > wrote: > > > > Can anyone please explain the difference between waterway=ditch and > drain? > > As far as I understand the description on the English wiki they differ > in usage: > > https://wiki.opens

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

In Belarus we have many canals which redirect part of a river flow into another river and they are much larger than ditches but are not navigable. Also hen a stream is straightened you would call that a ditch, but when a river is straightened you would call it a canal.even if it is not navigable.

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

чт, 6 дек. 2018 г. в 04:17, Joseph Eisenberg : > For example, in America we can call a waterway=stream a “brook”, “creek”, > “run” and several other things. These waterways will be tagged > waterway=stream or =river (depending on size) with name=“Bull Run”, > =“Walker Creek”, =“Johnson’s Brook”,

Re: [Tagging] Can OSM become a geospacial database?

вс, 9 дек. 2018 г. в 14:10, Marc Gemis : > We have tags for that (waterway=stream, ditch, ... / amenity=school, > college, university, kindergarten), I don't understand why we should > change the usage of name for that. How would you map American "streamlet", "brook", "creek" and "river" to the

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

mes, ice skating. No single dedicated use. > The consequence of mapping all ditches as ways is that in z19 on OSM carto > the land look almost water-less, while in z14 the amount of water looks > much higher than it actually is. > > > > Vr gr Peter Elderson > > &g

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

te: >> >>> >>> >>> Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 19:41 Uhr schrieb Eugene Podshivalov < >>> yauge...@gmail.com>: >>> >>>> There are a lot of straightened rivers and streams all over the world. >>>> Would it make sense to t

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

*a wooden head*, to be more precise ) Cheers, Eugene вт, 19 февр. 2019 г. в 01:48, Eugene Podshivalov : > Any river starts as a waterway=stream which is some kind of a wooden leg, > isn't it? > > Cheers, > Eugene > > вт, 19 февр. 2019 г. в 01:31, Graeme Fitzpatrick : >

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

вс, 24 февр. 2019 г. в 02:56, Paul Allen : > Yes, we can merge the tags and have drain for both. I'm still wondering why "drain", not "ditch", should be kept in the case of merging the tags. Cheers, Eugene вс, 24 февр. 2019 г. в 02:56, Paul Allen : > On Sat, 23 Feb 2019 at 23:33, Hufkratzer

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Canals and ditches are artificial channels carrying naturual water, so are the channels of a straightened river or stream. imho there is not difference between them. If we had such sections tagged as artificial waterways it would be possible to calculate statistics on man's impact on natural

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

takes away waste liquids or rainwater ditch - a narrow channel dug at the side of a road or field to hold, bring or carry away water Cheers, Eugene ср, 20 февр. 2019 г. в 12:50, Eugene Podshivalov : > ср, 20 февр. 2019 г. в 02:30, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > >> On 19/02/

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

It is not possible to calculate length of an international river when working with country extracts. Eugene пн, 18 февр. 2019 г. в 07:00, André Pirard : > On 2019-02-16 23:00, Markus wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Feb 2019, 20:06 Eugene Podshivalov >> What is the best way to correct th

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

Thank you, Markus. Cheers, Eugene вс, 17 февр. 2019 г. в 01:01, Markus : > On Sat, 16 Feb 2019, 20:06 Eugene Podshivalov >> What is the best way to correct this, so that all other langauge pages >> got the correction as well? >> > > I'm not aware of any other way

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

вс, 17 февр. 2019 г. в 00:11, André Pirard : > It's easy to make a script to total up all the segments of a waterway or > any way. > It will work but only if the entire river from its spring to mouth is drawn precisely enough, all relation roles are labeled properly and nobody breaks the

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

What is the best way to correct this, so that all other langauge pages got the correction as well? Cheers, Eugene сб, 16 февр. 2019 г. в 21:57, Markus : > On Sat, 16 Feb 2019, 00:43 Eugene Podshivalov >> The use of "distance" for river length distracts me as well. >> B

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

. Cheers, Eugene вс, 17 февр. 2019 г. в 15:18, Sergio Manzi : > On 2019-02-17 12:55, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > > It will work but only if the entire river from its spring to mouth is > drawn precisely enough, all relation roles are labeled properly and nobody > breaks th

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

assume multiple different values according to different >sources >- it is IMNSHO useless (*just point to a Wikipedia article to get this >information*) > > Personally I'm leaning to propse to deprecate the usage of this key and > subject that to a vote. What is the p

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

There are a lot of straightened rivers and streams all over the world. Would it make sense to tag the straightened sections as canal/ditch/drain rather than river/stream? Cheers, Eugene пн, 11 февр. 2019 г. в 22:07, Eugene Podshivalov : > пн, 11 февр. 2019 г. в 19:19, Hufkrat

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

ditches" and "drains" as one and the same thing. So why do we need two tags for one and the same thing? Cheers, Eugene пн, 11 февр. 2019 г. в 19:19, Hufkratzer : > On 10.02.2019 14:57, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > [...} > *Variant #2* > Combine "ditch&qu

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

> > пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 02:55, Martin Koppenhoefer >: > there is established tagging for buried man made waterways (tunnel=culvert > and man_made=pipeline) tunnel=culvert is supposed to be used with waterway=*, isn't it? Cheers, Eugene пн, 4 февр. 2019 г. в 02:55, Martin Koppenhoefer : > >

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

be assumed by default, but you would have to define lined=no attribute for unlined drains then. This seems to be the only point which would make the life easier with two separate tags. Cheers, Eugene сб, 2 февр. 2019 г. в 19:44, Eugene Podshivalov : > Not all ditches can be called drains and

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

André, that's correct but do you happen to know why "distance" was selected for route and waterway length then? Cheers, Eugene вт, 29 янв. 2019 г. в 22:41, André Pirard : > On 2019-01-29 16:37, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > Hi all, > The relation:water

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

ene сб, 16 февр. 2019 г. в 02:33, Graeme Fitzpatrick : > > On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 at 01:38, Eugene Podshivalov > wrote: > >> André, that's correct but do you happen to know why "distance" was >> selected for route and waterway length then? >> > > No idea w

Re: [Tagging] Waterway length

сб, 16 февр. 2019 г. в 16:30, Andy Mabbett : Why would we tag either, when software can calculate them? Calculated value may differ from the official one and is error-prone, e.g. when a segment is deleted by mistake or when a segment role is changed between main and side stream. Cheers, Eugene

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

ср, 20 февр. 2019 г. в 02:30, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > On 19/02/19 20:40, Eugene Podshivalov wrote: > > Canals and ditches are artificial channels carrying naturual water > > this suggests there is 'unnatural' water... > What does "unnatural" water m

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

How to we proceed with this topic? Should a proposal be created or the wiki pages can be updated straight away by someone or myself based on this discussion? Cheers, Eugene вс, 27 янв. 2019 г. в 17:22, Paul Allen : > On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 10:37, Eugene Podshivalov > wrote: > >

[Tagging] Waterway length

Hi all, The relation:waterway wiki page recommends using "distance" tag for "the total length of river in km". Was there any discussion of this choice? It seems a bit incorrect and confusing, because "distance" is more suitable for routes as

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

can hardly step over a 2-5 metre wide ditch, can you? Anything greater than that can be called a canal. So I would leave this up to the user to decide on. Cheers, Eugene ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 13:04, Joseph Eisenberg : > Those descriptions look good > On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:58

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

waterway=canal for large irrigation or land drainage channels. Consider using waterway=drain for usually lined superflous liquid drainage channels. Cheers, Eugene вт, 29 янв. 2019 г. в 18:32, marc marc : > Le 29.01.19 à 16:13, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit : > > How to we proceed with t

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

ranges (waterways greater than 10m can already be mapped with waterbodies, so I don't mention them there). In the place where I live drainage ditches and drains can be from 0.1 to 5 meters wide, and anything greater then that can be called a canal. Cheers, Eugene вс, 20 янв. 2019 г. в 01:22, Markus : >

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs. ditch

e: 4 > > Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:15:41 +0300 > > From: Eugene Podshivalov > > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" > > > > Subject: Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch > > > > ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 13:02, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.c

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Hi Markus, I find your amendments great. Cheers, Eugene чт, 31 янв. 2019 г. в 20:29, Markus : > Hi Eugene > > Thanks for your summary! [^1] I'm in favour of the proposed > definitions and would welcome if the clarifications regarding size you > made here [^2] were included in the definitions,

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

The direct images got blocked. So here are the links. Drainage ditches: https://ak2.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/32964022/thumb/12.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Drainage_Ditch_at_New_Eskham_Farm_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1170959.jpg Drains:

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Here are some pictures to make the difference between drainage ditches and drain clear. Drainage ditches: [image: image.png] [image: image.png] Drains [image: image.png] [image: image.png] [image: image.png] [image: image.png] Cheers, Eugene сб, 2 февр. 2019 г. в 01:29, Sergio Manzi : > I'm

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

There are two cases when I'm in doubt when choosing between "drainage ditch" and "drain". 1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Lake_tahoe_storm_drain_el_dorado_beach_2.jpg I would call the pipe a "drain", but is the channal in the ground carrying industrial discharge after the

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Not all ditches can be called drains and not all drains can be called ditches and there is some overlapping in their meanings which causes the confusion. I see three ways to go: 1. Define the basic meanings from dictionaries and let users decide on which tag to use, similar to Peter Elderson's

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

Michael, thank you very much for such in-depth analysis. I would conclude the following from it. There are distinctions between these two terms, otherwise they would not be defined separately. In simple words, a ditch is a small open-air man-made or self-formed channel in the ground for

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

I have no objection to remove the lined/unlined characteristic from the definitions but am not sure about leaving just one tag for both "ditch" and "drain" notions. Here are some examples to consider. 1. Industrial drains are not always digged out. The channal in the ground may get formed by the

Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch

se "ditch", not "drain". Most of ditches are drainage ditches, hence usage=drain can be assumed by default if not defined, but renaming irrigation ditches into drains+usage=irrigation sounds incorrect. Cheers, Eugene вс, 3 февр. 2019 г. в 16:38, Paul Allen : > On Sun, 3 Feb 2

[Tagging] Waterway tributary role

Hi all, Does anyone remember where "tributary" role of waterway relations was discussed. It is used quite often in Fance but I could not find any reference on the wiki. Thanks, Eugene ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Waterway tributary role

2019 г. в 00:27, Brad Neuhauser : > Seems like this is essentially replaced by the destination key? > > On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 4:24 PM marc marc > wrote: > >> Le 11.04.19 à 12:48, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit : >> >> > I could not find any reference on the w