On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/18/2012 9:15 AM, Anthony wrote:
2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 18:07 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the
following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other
than me:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217
Some remark on these three examples:
They are all so large that there is no technical advantage in tagging them
as roundabouts as opposed to just normal roads that happen to be circular.
Why do we want to map a junction as roundabout? The main reason is most
likely that this way the navigation
On 5/19/2012 11:43 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote:
All three examples would not be roundabouts in Germany or Italy, where
the use of the roundabout tag is linked to the presence of the
corresponding road sign for a roundabout, at least this seems to be
common practice on OSM.
In New Jersey the
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
Whilst I cannot think of any that have stop signs,
I cannot see why they wouldn't in a country where stop signs are
commonly used.
It kind of defeats the purpose. If traffic has to come to a complete
stop anyway, why
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/19/2012 11:43 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote:
All three examples would not be roundabouts in Germany or Italy, where
the use of the roundabout tag is linked to the presence of the
corresponding road sign for a
On 5/19/2012 1:01 PM, Anthony wrote:
I'd be interested in
seeing a sign which says circle used on a roundabout, though.
If you mean simply a circle where all entering traffic yields, here's
one:
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/19/2012 1:01 PM, Anthony wrote:
I'd be interested in
seeing a sign which says circle used on a roundabout, though.
If you mean simply a circle where all entering traffic yields
No, I mean a true roundabout.
On 5/19/2012 1:34 PM, Anthony wrote:
I'm not sure that qualifies as approaching vehicles being deflected
around a central island (the MUTCD definition). The deflection is
being done by the islands in the four corners.
Buh? So you wouldn't call
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/19/2012 1:34 PM, Anthony wrote:
I'm not sure that qualifies as approaching vehicles being deflected
around a central island (the MUTCD definition). The deflection is
being done by the islands in the four
Hi Tobias,
Sorry to start this again, but yesterday evening was a little difficult. ;-)
I reread the description and tagging of the example. If I understood
you correct - please correct me if not - you are confused because
about this: A ROUND place with a traversable ISLAND. So round and
island
You understand me correctly. Or maybe a text something similar to this:
This picture shows a round place with a traversable island in the
middle, but this is
neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning
circle, which allows large vehicles to turn around. Not saying that
all
2012/5/18 Tobias Johansson t...@mensa.se:
You understand me correctly. Or maybe a text something similar to this:
This picture shows a round place with a traversable island in the
middle, but this is
neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning
circle, which allows large
2012/5/17 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com:
Edit wars are what happens when someone ignores objections that have been
raised and decides to arbitrarily define the existing tagging in the
database as wrong.
There will always be errors in the database, but if we redefine
features every time
2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com:
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the
following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than
me:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217
On 5/18/2012 9:15 AM, Anthony wrote:
2012/5/18 Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the
following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other than
me:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217
Hi!
I updated now the english article:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout
Translations will follow in the next days.
Many thanks to everyone who took part in the discussion and provided
valuable feedback.
Stay tuned - I'll come back to you for the next article soon ;-)
On 5/17/2012 3:04 PM, Martin Vonwald wrote:
Hi!
I updated now the english article:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout
Translations will follow in the next days.
Traffic circles are usually tagged as roundabouts, contrary to your
statement.
There is one thing. In Sweden we have something called Vändplats
http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/Vag/Vagmarken/Forbudsmarken/Vandplats/
roughly translated turnaroundplace usally in sweden we have used
highway=turning_circle for this.
According to this definition almost no vändplats would be
But this is exactly the definition of turning_place: a widening of the road
without any island.
Am 17.05.2012 um 22:23 schrieb Tobias Johansson t...@mensa.se:
There is one thing. In Sweden we have something called Vändplats
On the page you referensed to. in the table with pictures it says A
round place with a traversable island in the middle, but this is
neither a mini-roundabout nor a roundabout, but instead a turning
circle, which allows large vehicles to turn around.
2012/5/17 Martin Vonwald (Imagic)
Look at the second column for the suggested tagging. The wording turning
circle is misleading here and does NOT refer to turning_circle; it should read
turning place. But I will not do any more wiki-edits unless NE2 is banned so I
can not fix this.
Nonetheless thanks for pointing this out.
Am
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his
way in an edit war.
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On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in
an edit war.
Why do you keep starting the wars?
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On 5/17/2012 5:39 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way in
an edit war.
Why do you keep starting the wars?
Have you stopped beating your wife?
On 5/17/2012 5:27 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his
way in an edit war.
By the way, his block summary is complete bullshit. He says The
discussion on tagging@ mentions traffic circles and right of way several
times and allways
On 5/17/2012 5:48 PM, Gnonthgol wrote:
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his
way in an edit war.
I am sorry I offended you but I was not out to win an edit war. You were
blocked because you edited against the consensus on the list, and when I
reverted your edits
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/17/2012 5:39 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com
wrote:
Whoever the hell Gnonthgol is on the wiki has blocked me to get his way
in
an edit war.
Why
If anyone doubts that existing tagging does not match the wiki, see the
following examples, all tagged as junction=roundabout by editors other
than me:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/5677217
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/9080282
On 15/05/12 22:25, Colin Smale wrote:
It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g.
junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to
recognise it and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with
the OSM semantics for one. Otherwise your satnav
First of all many thanks for your detailed and constructive feedback.
2012/5/15 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com:
Still open, so please provide feedback:
* Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should
be used in two of the examples
Chicanes look
2012/5/16 Andrew Chadwick (lists) a.t.chadwick+li...@gmail.com:
According to Wikipedia at least, the ones without priority for
circulating traffic are called traffic circles in the US, and they use
the BE roundabout as we do in GB:
In the U.S., traffic engineers use the term roundabout for
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/15/2012 10:30 AM, Anthony wrote:
Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in
one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic
need not stop (no stop signs).
Nope.
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g.
junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to recognise it
and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with the OSM
On 16/05/12 12:03, Martin Vonwald wrote:
Thanks for your work.
8. Editor support for circles seems too prominent where it is, and
nobody's really bothered about the neatening tools at first. I suggest
demoting this to a later section, and maybe retitling it as Drawing
neater circles.
2012/5/16 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com:
In the JOSM section a link to the JOSM-wiki describtions of the tools [1][2]
is
useful.
[1] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/AlignInCircle
[2] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/CreateCircle
Links added - thanks.
On 5/16/2012 8:51 AM, Anthony wrote:
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Unless you want to invent a new tag
for the New Jersey circles that give right-of-way to some approaches.
I wouldn't mind. There's something fundamentally different between a
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know
whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely
different tag when one or more approaches has right-of-way?
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Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether
entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when
one or more approaches has right-of-way?
Penalties for routing?
On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote:
Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether
entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag when
one or more
On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote:
Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know
whether entering traffic yields that the user expects a
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:
On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote:
Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so
On 16/05/12 21:34, Toby Murray wrote:
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:
On 16/05/2012 19:01, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/16/2012 1:52 PM, Martin Vonwald (Imagic) wrote:
Am 16.05.2012 um 19:44 schrieb Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com:
Does anyone
On May 16, 2012 12:35 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:
There is highway=stop and highway=give_way but their use is kind of
awkward. The wiki says to put it on a node before the intersection
which makes some sense but then anyone who actually wants to use it
has to do some
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether
entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag
when one or more approaches has right-of-way?
I think the issue is
On 5/16/2012 7:41 PM, Anthony wrote:
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether
entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag
when one or more approaches has
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/16/2012 7:41 PM, Anthony wrote:
Does anyone have an example of a traffic circle
where entering traffic does not yield, but it makes sense for a satnav
to say make a left at the roundabout?
I'd expect to be told
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone have an actual use case where it's so important to know whether
entering traffic yields that the user expects a completely different tag
when one or more approaches has right-of-way?
Also, I'd prefer for my
On 5/16/2012 8:13 PM, Anthony wrote:
Also, I'd prefer for my satnav to save the word roundabout for
actual roundabouts. If it starts talking to me about roundabouts when
I'm just merging onto a road which is part of an interchange which is
kind of circular in shape, I'm just going to get
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/16/2012 8:13 PM, Anthony wrote:
Also, I'd prefer for my satnav to save the word roundabout for
actual roundabouts. If it starts talking to me about roundabouts when
I'm just merging onto a road which is part of
On 5/16/2012 8:34 PM, Anthony wrote:
Anyway, while looking for an example of a roundabout, I came across
this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83428962/history
Why did you remove the roundabout tag?
Because it's not a complete circle...
___
On May 16, 2012 4:47 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
I'd expect to be told take the nth exit from the roundabout/circle. How
is the satnav to know if an angle of 135 degrees is straight or left?
Same here, especially given situations like Ladd's Circle in Portland,
which is a
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/16/2012 8:34 PM, Anthony wrote:
Anyway, while looking for an example of a roundabout, I came across
this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83428962/history
Why did you remove the roundabout tag?
Because
Are there any alternatives to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Kein_kreisel_IMGP9185_osm.jpg
?
Maybe I'm alone in this, but the three arrows are very confusing. I
had to stare at the large image for quite a while before I was able to
figure them out.
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:56 AM,
If not, maybe we could add a sentence such as Unlike at a roundabout,
it is legal to drive to the right or to the left of the obstruction.
Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way,
rather than use traffic_calming=island?
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Anthony
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way,
rather than use traffic_calming=island?
I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but
instead there is an island in the middle of the street. At least this
is my
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote:
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
Also, is it acceptable to simply map the feature as a circular way,
rather than use traffic_calming=island?
I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but
instead
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think so. Because the street is not a circular way, but
instead there is an island in the middle of the street. At least this
is my interpretation.
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
However, in OSM terminology, there is no distinction between
roundabouts and traffic circles, right?
Yes and no ;-)
... in a roundabout
entering traffic must always yield to traffic already in the circle
That's junction=roundabout or highway=mini_roundabout
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote:
2012/5/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org:
... in a roundabout
entering traffic must always yield to traffic already in the circle
That's junction=roundabout or highway=mini_roundabout - right-of-way
whereas in a traffic
On 15/05/2012 16:30, Anthony wrote:
Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in
one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic
need not stop (no stop signs).
I hope not...OSM currently has no way of reflecting priority at
junctions. Introducing
Should also be valid for a closed way like the junction= key so detail
wouldn't have to be removed in situations where such an island was mapped
as a roundabout.
On May 15, 2012 5:58 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
If not, maybe we could add a sentence such as Unlike at a roundabout,
it is
2012/5/15 Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl
On 15/05/2012 16:30, Anthony wrote:
I hope not...OSM currently has no way of reflecting priority at junctions.
Introducing this distinction just for circular junctions is a bit
pointless.
Well there IS highway=give_way. Not that I tagged it so
On 14/05/12 12:36, Martin Vonwald wrote:
The reworked article about junction=roundabout is now more or less
finished, so please comment on the whole article:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt
Still open, so please provide feedback:
* Decision if
On 5/15/2012 10:30 AM, Anthony wrote:
Okay, so, for OSM terminology, a roundabout means 1) traffic goes in
one direction; 2) entering traffic must yield; and 3) entering traffic
need not stop (no stop signs).
Nope. Junction=roundabout applies to all (one-way) traffic circles, no
matter what
On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 10:30 -0400, Anthony wrote:
2) entering traffic must yield; and
Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the
roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the Arc De
Triomphe the most famous 'old style'.
Phil
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 10:30 -0400, Anthony wrote:
2) entering traffic must yield; and
Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the
roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk wrote:
2) entering traffic must yield; and
Not always. In France there are still a few where traffic on the
roundabout gives way to traffic joining the roundabout. Isn't the Arc De
Triomphe the most famous 'old style'.
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:25 PM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
It would be nice if these rond-points would be explicitly tagged (e.g.
junction=rond_point???) so mkgmap can still easily be taught to recognise it
and treat it as a roundabout even if it doesn't comply with the OSM
That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve
obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on
Wikipedia here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg.
S
On 14/05/2012 03:25, Clifford Snow wrote:
On Sun, May
2012/5/14 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us:
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small
roundabout? Is it based on who has the right of way?
Here is an example in Seattle. http://g.co/maps/nvhfh We
2012/5/14 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com:
That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve
obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on
Wikipedia here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg.
According to
14.05.2012 09:50, Martin Vonwald wrote:
According to the current wiki chicanes are Hazards on the street you
have to drive round. This would fit the image. Also at least in my
region we use traffic_calming=chicane to map these:
2012/5/14 Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com:
That's not what I would call a chicane. For me, they generally involve
obstructions protruding from the sides of a road. There's a picture on
Wikipedia here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/One-lane_chicane_1.jpg.
IMHO all
2012/5/14 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
IMHO all measurements aiming at reducing traffic speed by physical
means can be regarded chicanes.
sorry, I take that back ;-)
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2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de:
I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example
page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_
obstructions on the left and right side of the road.
Your example is more like an island.
What is your
2012/5/14 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com:
2012/5/14 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de:
I consider neither that example nor the ones on your roundabout example
page a chicane. Instead, I'd specifically expect _alternating_
obstructions on the left and right side of the road.
Your example
14.05.2012 13:04, Martin Vonwald:
Actually a wiki page exists for that:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:traffic_calming=island
It was created just two months ago and the value is not documented in
the main article about traffic calming. The value is used about 400
times currently.
Hi!
The reworked article about junction=roundabout is now more or less
finished, so please comment on the whole article:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/Werkstatt
Still open, so please provide feedback:
* Decision if traffic_calming=chicane or traffic_calming=island should
be used
If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the
combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island;
I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly all)
crossings with an islands calm down traffic, so it's a useful combination.
regards
Peter
Am
2012/5/14 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de:
If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the
combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island;
I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly all)
crossings with an islands calm down
2012/5/14 Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com:
2012/5/14 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de:
If anyone of you is going to edit that page anyway, please add the
combination suggestions with highway=crossing; crossing=island;
I would say, not all islands are island-crossings, but (nearly
Please pardon the ignorant American question:
What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small
roundabout? Is it based on who has the right of way?
Does anyone have an example of something like this in the US? Or is
it safe to say that these don't exist here?
On Sun, May 13,
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
Please pardon the ignorant American question:
What is the difference between traffic_calming=chicane and a small
roundabout? Is it based on who has the right of way?
Does anyone have an example of something like this in the US?
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