Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 28 July 2011 12:06, Joseph Reeves wrote: > name: Magdalen Road > pronounced: More-da-lin Road > > ? > > That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're making sat nav software for a > market (the UK, France, America, etc.) you should be able to work out these > things yourself. why? in that instance, there are a lot of people in england who would pronounce that 'wrongly'. although as i said earlier, this is all socially constructed - there's no correct answer, and i'm not sure we should encourage that there is. -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
It's all about the placement: St Albans pronounced "Saint Albans" Albans St pronounced "Albans Street" Look at this road: http://osm.org/go/eutDvk@QV- Should we tag it: name: Magdalen Road pronounced: More-da-lin Road ? That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're making sat nav software for a market (the UK, France, America, etc.) you should be able to work out these things yourself. Cheers, Joseph On 28 July 2011 00:55, Ian wrote: > On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:13 PM UTC-5, Joseph Reeves wrote: >> >> But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't >> pronounce st as "saint" I'd blame the software, not the data. >> > Should the satnav pronounce "st." as "saint" or "street"? > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 28 July 2011 10:45, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2011/7/28 Richard Mann : >> "name" is what is on (the majority of) the signs > > > name is the name. Or what would be the name if the sign-majority was > defined and there were 2 differing signs? nil? Or if there was 1 sign > and that was spellt wrong? Signs are indices, but they contain errors > and bugs like everything else. the sign (and a map, including OSM) is an attempt to quantify and record the social reality of the name of the street as social reality depends upon the observer, there are potentially lots of answers to how we write the name. which is how we end up with 'do what you, a local, think is appropriate' - also known as 'ground truth' trying to find a definitive 'correct' answer is thus by definition impossible and likely to end in dispute (or at least a very long mail thread with no resolution...) and yeah, i come from England, live in NZ, so map both Derbyshire and Auckland -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:13 PM UTC-5, Joseph Reeves wrote: > > But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't > pronounce st as "saint" I'd blame the software, not the data. > Should the satnav pronounce "st." as "saint" or "street"? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
2011/7/28 Richard Mann : > "name" is what is on (the majority of) the signs name is the name. Or what would be the name if the sign-majority was defined and there were 2 differing signs? nil? Or if there was 1 sign and that was spellt wrong? Signs are indices, but they contain errors and bugs like everything else. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Kay Drangmeister wrote: > Am 27.07.2011 19:22, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: >>> >>> Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard >>> Fairhurst: every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty conclusive argument that we should tag "St". >> >> In Italian "S." can mean "San", "Sant'" and "Santa", "Ss." can mean >> "Santi" and "Santissimo"/"Santissima"/"Santissimi"/"Santissime" >> because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the >> name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is >> not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not >> to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages >> that occur in the planet). > > That, to me, is a convincing argument to tag the unabbreviated form > and let software (easily) do the abbreviation, instead of tagging > the abbreviation and have software do the (next to impossible) task > to un-abbreviate. "name" is what is on (the majority of) the signs Anything else belongs in a different tag (long_name, full_name, pedants_name, whatever) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
Am 27.07.2011 19:22, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer: Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard Fairhurst: every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty conclusive argument that we should tag "St". In Italian "S." can mean "San", "Sant'" and "Santa", "Ss." can mean "Santi" and "Santissimo"/"Santissima"/"Santissimi"/"Santissime" because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages that occur in the planet). That, to me, is a convincing argument to tag the unabbreviated form and let software (easily) do the abbreviation, instead of tagging the abbreviation and have software do the (next to impossible) task to un-abbreviate. I cannot concur with Richards argument of "native speakers" in that case. Native speakers (read: humans) have context knowledge that our software (in the forseeable future) just does not have, and we want (humans AND) software to deal with our data, don't we? Cheers, Kay ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
Hi, Joseph Reeves wrote: But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't pronounce st as "saint" I'd blame the software, not the data. Yup... nothing against a special tag for a pronounciation hint though. Phonetic alphabet, anyone? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't pronounce st as "saint" I'd blame the software, not the data. On 27 Jul 2011 20:38, "Steve Doerr" wrote: > On 27/07/2011 18:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> ...but the point is that here the name seems to be "St Albans" so why >> should we be the only ones to expand it? >> > > So that satnavs can more easily work out how to pronounce it? > > -- > Steve > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 18:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: ...but the point is that here the name seems to be "St Albans" so why should we be the only ones to expand it? So that satnavs can more easily work out how to pronounce it? -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
...but the point is that here the name seems to be "St Albans" so why should we be the only ones to expand it? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
2011/7/27 Kay Drangmeister : > Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard Fairhurst : >> >> every native English speaker would >> pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty >> conclusive >> argument that we should tag "St". > > Alas, and in German "St" abbreviates "Sankt" (which also means by chance > Saint). > So you can conclusively say for each place if it's the english or the german > Abbreviation? Not to mention other countries with multiple languages. In Italian "S." can mean "San", "Sant'" and "Santa", "Ss." can mean "Santi" and "Santissimo"/"Santissima"/"Santissimi"/"Santissime" because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages that occur in the planet). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
2011/7/27 Kenneth Gonsalves : > on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as: > lat 145921624 lon 864071554 > > but the map shows the correct figures: > lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684 I guess these coordinates are the same, the first are the coordinates in your projection the latter in latlong. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as: > > lat 145921624 lon 864071554 I was having the same problem, when I have implemented search in my map tile server. Actually these are not the latitudes longitudes, I think these are the x and y co-ordinates. And these need to be converted on latitude and longitude for using it. > but the map shows the correct figures: > > lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684 > > can anyone explain this? I have also made the function too convert x,y co-ordinates into lat. long., but unfortunately I have lost that data. But I will try to find that and will reply here back If found. Hope it will help you. -- Parveen Arora www.parveenarora.in E-Mail: m...@parveenarora.in ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 14:38, John F. Eldredge wrote: That is the reason I feel that it would be best to store the fully-spelled-out name, and then apply localized rules to look up any abbreviations needed at rendering time. Using the full form to determine the abbreviation is much less ambiguous than the other way around. But the point several of us have been making is that this has moved beyond being an abbreviation to being the proper spelling of the name. Absolutely "Example Road" not "Example Rd", but "St Albans" really is called that (now), not "Saint Albans". David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
andrzej zaborowski wrote: > On 27 July 2011 12:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > Increasingly you can treat "St" as a valid spelling of the word > "saint", > > rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English > speaker > > would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English > speaker would > > pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. > > Still only if provided with enough context to correctly guess which of > the words spelt St it is. This isn't the most complicated case, you > only need to process about one word ahead as context (or in this case > perhaps just knowing it's at the start of the name), but for many > tasks it would be great to eliminate the guessing. > > Cheers > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk That is the reason I feel that it would be best to store the fully-spelled-out name, and then apply localized rules to look up any abbreviations needed at rendering time. Using the full form to determine the abbreviation is much less ambiguous than the other way around. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:51 +0100, Steve Doerr wrote: > On 27/07/2011 11:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead. > [...] > > every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as > > 'saint'. > > Actually, St and saint are pronounced rather differently (sn̩t and > seɪnt, respectively). a round at snandrews? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] querying the postgis db
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 07:41 -0400, Richard Weait wrote: > > I have installed osm data in a postgis db, and would like to get a > list > > of all localities within a particular city - can anyone give a hint > on > > the sql required for this? > > Here's a hint. ;-) > > Find locality points inside any Toronto polygon (includes Toronto, > Iowa (Ohio, NSW AU, etc) > > gis=# select p.name from planet_osm_point p, planet_osm_polygon g > where p.place='locality' AND ST_Within(p.way,g.way) AND > g.name='Toronto'; works like a charm. But it is not a 'hint', you are putting my ball instead of teaching me to putt ;-) Thanks anyway. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 11:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead. [...] every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. Actually, /St/ and /saint/ are pronounced rather differently (*sn?t* and *se?nt*, respectively). -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
It probably doesn't affect the argument, but 'The Place-names of Hertfordshire' (English Place-name Society, 1938) records the following historical forms: (aet) Sancte Albane (957) Sancte Albanes stow (1007) la ville de Seint Alban (Norman-French) villa Sancti Albani (Domesday Book - in Latin) villa de Sancto Albano (medieval, Latin) le Covent de Seynt Alban (1302) la dite ville de Seint Alban (time of Edward II) la ville de Seint Auban (time of Edward III) Seint Auban (1400) Seynt Albones (1421) -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 12:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > Increasingly you can treat "St" as a valid spelling of the word "saint", > rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English speaker > would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English speaker would > pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. Still only if provided with enough context to correctly guess which of the words spelt St it is. This isn't the most complicated case, you only need to process about one word ahead as context (or in this case perhaps just knowing it's at the start of the name), but for many tasks it would be great to eliminate the guessing. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 22:00, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > John Smith wrote: >> The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate >> Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. > > Not in British English, it isn't. > > "_Saint._ St or S. is better than St. for the abbreviation (see PERIOD IN > ABBR.); Pl. Sts or SS." > > That's from Fowler's Modern English Usage, which is as close as there is to > an authority in British English style. It seems 50/50, although even your reference basically says it's an acceptable practice, even if that publisher had a style preference that was different. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
John Smith wrote: > The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate > Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. Not in British English, it isn't. "_Saint._ St or S. is better than St. for the abbreviation (see PERIOD IN ABBR.); Pl. Sts or SS." That's from Fowler's Modern English Usage, which is as close as there is to an authority in British English style. Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/shortened-names-tp6556816p6625848.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 21:48, David Earl wrote: > "Commonly abbreviated S. or St. ... Abbreviations: S. and St., pl. SS. and > Sts. Since the 18th c. ‘St.’ is the form usually employed; but since about > 1830 ‘S.’ has been favoured by ecclesiologists. In place-names, and in > family names derived from these, only ‘St.’ is used [clearly not true!]." The other practice is dropping punctuation marks from signs... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 21:21, Paul Jaggard wrote: >> From: John Smith >> The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate >> Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. > > Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary: > > st abbrev. for short ton. > St abbrev. for Saint. > st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by > St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street > Sta abbrev. for Saint (female). Isn't the first reference I was pointed to when this came up some time ago http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/St. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 12:21, Paul Jaggard wrote: From: John Smith The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary: st abbrev. for short ton. St abbrev. for Saint. st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street Sta abbrev. for Saint (female). According to the full OED, John is right if you look under 'saint': "Commonly abbreviated S. or St. ... Abbreviations: S. and St., pl. SS. and Sts. Since the 18th c. ‘St.’ is the form usually employed; but since about 1830 ‘S.’ has been favoured by ecclesiologists. In place-names, and in family names derived from these, only ‘St.’ is used [clearly not true!]." But then if you look under 'st' (no period), it says "(with cap.) for saint adj. and n. prefixed to a name." The Guardian Style Guide (http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/s ), which tends to go for more modern usage in general, says: "Saint - in running text should be spelt in full: Saint John, Saint Paul. For names of towns, churches, etc, abbreviate St (no point) eg St Mirren, St Stephen's church. In French placenames a hyphen is needed, eg St-Nazaire, Ste-Suzanne, Stes-Maries-de-la-Mer". The Telegraph style guide (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/1435325/Telegraph-style-book-Ss.html ) agrees: "Saint: Abbreviated to St (no point); plural is SS (SS Peter and Paul). (See Places and Peoples)." David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] querying the postgis db
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this sounds a bit of a dumb question: > > I have installed osm data in a postgis db, and would like to get a list > of all localities within a particular city - can anyone give a hint on > the sql required for this? Here's a hint. ;-) Find locality points inside any Toronto polygon (includes Toronto, Iowa (Ohio, NSW AU, etc) gis=# select p.name from planet_osm_point p, planet_osm_polygon g where p.place='locality' AND ST_Within(p.way,g.way) AND g.name='Toronto'; name -- Birchmount Park Wexford Heights Clairlea Clarks Corners Woodbine Gardens Steeles Parkway East Bayview Village Lansing North York Westmount St. Phillips Rouge Hill Rouge Park Kennedy Park York Height Hillcrest Village Willowdale York Richview Gardens Pine Point Kingsview Village Martin Grove Gardens Beaumonde Heights Highfield (25 rows) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 16:58 +0530, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > > > > Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326. > > same error - maybe I need to install something. done - yum install proj-epsg. Thanks everyone. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
Robin Paulson wrote: ha, there's a road near me labelled on sign posts as: Grt Sth Rd which must be so easy to interpret for all the none-native english speakers Would "Grout Something Rapid" count as an educated guess? Let's face it: its the authorities' idea of 1337-Speak... Kay ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:11 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > On 07/27/11 13:04, kenneth gonsalves wrote: > > I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing: > > ./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm > > > > I get this error: > > Projection code failed to initialise > > Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326. same error - maybe I need to install something. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
> From: John Smith > The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate > Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary: st abbrev. for short ton. St abbrev. for Saint. st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street Sta abbrev. for Saint (female). Paul. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard Fairhurst : every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty conclusive argument that we should tag "St". Alas, and in German "St" abbreviates "Sankt" (which also means by chance Saint). So you can conclusively say for each place if it's the english or the german Abbreviation? Not to mention other countries with multiple languages. Cheers, Kay ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 11:58, John Smith wrote: On 27 July 2011 20:50, David Earl wrote: While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this document, it does have "St. Helens" (sic). Why the period? The district council's website The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. Hmm. OK, then reverse the question. Why do so many places including St Albans not use the a period? Could it be as Richard and I were saying that St is now an accepted spelling of the word which means a beatified person rather than being just an abbreviation. Like "laser" and arguably "email" are words now. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
Hi, On 07/27/11 13:04, kenneth gonsalves wrote: I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing: ./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm I get this error: Projection code failed to initialise Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 11:04 +0100, Jorge Gustavo wrote:
> As Tom already said, you probably used osm2pgsql and those
> coordinates
> are in the SRID EPSG:900913. You can/should confirm it by quering the
> geometry_columns table. osm2pgsql fills the table automatically.
that's right
...
> In PostGIS, you can change coordinates doing st_transform.
> Example:
> Select astext(ST_transform(st_geometryfromtext('POINT(864071554
> 145921624)',900913),4326));
I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing:
./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm
I get this error:
Projection code failed to initialise
any clues?
___
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talk@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 20:50, David Earl wrote: > While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this document, it > does have "St. Helens" (sic). Why the period? The district council's website The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
In just doing some web searching, I came across this UK Government document... http://www.pcgn.org.uk/UK%20Toponymic%20Guidelines.pdf which has lots of references to OS lists of standards and conventions. While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this document, it does have "St. Helens" (sic). Why the period? The district council's website http://www.sthelens.gov.uk/ also has it with a period (St Albans, http://www.stalbans.gov.uk/ , does not). OSM has it as "Saint Helens", which is arguably wrong. We also have St Davids as "St David's" which I think is also probably wrong (certainly not how their gov.uk website has it) even before getting into the English/Welsh debate. We all seem to agree on St Austell (Cornwall), Ottery St Mary, Chalfont St Peter. Here is one of the more challenging areas in the UK in this respect: http://osm.org/go/0ERdlvp-- David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
John Smith wrote: > The person that started this thread is in New Zealand... ...and started it with the comment "does anyone here know what st albans in uk is actually called then?". Robin has also mapped parts of Britain - such as Repton, not far from where I'm sitting now. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 10:23, Thomas Davie wrote: I don't think how they're sorted has anything to do with it, if every time the place name is written, it's written "St Albans", even in official documentation of what the town is called, it's name is "St Albans", simple as that. +1. And the same applies to street names with S(ain)t too. For example St Albans Road, Cambridge. Interestingly, nominatim comes up with two such roads, one in Cambridge, UK and one in Boston, MA (well done Nominatim for getting St vs Saint right btw), and the one in Boston is spelled out in full on OSM. However, if you look at Streetview, you can see the street sign is "St Albans Rd" and Google maps has it as St Albans Rd (but then they shorten everything on the maps), but their Gazetteer - what you see when you are located in Streetview as the location you're viewing has "Saint" in full. I think there is a subtle difference between abbreviations (like Rd and St - for Street that is) and contractions, like St for Saint and Dr for Doctor (not Drive). Generally abbreviations are just saving space, while contractions have become like words in their own right. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pyroute
(Sorry! I meant to send this to the list) On Tue, July 26, 2011 5:27 pm, Luis Quesada wrote: > On 23/07/11 23:45, Åukasz Stelmach wrote: >> Luis Quesada writes: >> >>> I am having the error listed at the end when trying to run python gui.py >>>File "/home/lquesada/pyroute/tiles.py", line 98, in loadImage >>> self.images[name] = cairo.ImageSurface.create_from_png(filename) >>> MemoryError >> Hard to tell. My first *guess* is that there is something wrong with >> Cairo bindings for Python[1] or with the Cairo itself. >> >> >> Footnotes: >> [1] http://cairographics.org/pycairo/ >> > Dear Åukasz, > > Thank you very much for your answer. I installed the latest versions of > both pycairo and cairo. It seems they are both fine: > > >>> import cairo > >>> cairo.cairo_version_string() > '1.10.2' > >>> cairo.version > '1.8.8' > > Cheers, > Luis > -- Luis Quesada Research Scientist Cork Constraint Computation Centre University College Cork Cork - Ireland Phone: (+353) 21 420 5376 Fax:(+353) 21 420 5369 Web:http://4c.ucc.ie/~lquesada ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
Hi Kenneth,
As Tom already said, you probably used osm2pgsql and those coordinates
are in the SRID EPSG:900913. You can/should confirm it by quering the
geometry_columns table. osm2pgsql fills the table automatically.
You should see something like:
320028;"''";"public";"planet_osm_line";"way";2;900913;"LINESTRING"
320017;"''";"public";"planet_osm_point";"way";2;900913;"POINT"
320039;"''";"public";"planet_osm_polygon";"way";2;900913;"GEOMETRY"
320049;"''";"public";"planet_osm_roads";"way";2;900913;"LINESTRING"
In PostGIS, you can change coordinates doing st_transform.
Example:
Select astext(ST_transform(st_geometryfromtext('POINT(864071554
145921624)',900913),4326));
Regards,
Jorge
On 27-07-2011 09:08, kenneth gonsalves wrote:
hi,
on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:
lat 145921624 lon 864071554
but the map shows the correct figures:
lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684
can anyone explain this?
___
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 20:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > (I'm only talking about the UK, of course, and in fact this discussion would > be better on talk-gb.) The person that started this thread is in New Zealand... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
andrzej zaborowski wrote: > I'd say the opposite is true. If it's pronounced "Saint Albans" > then that is the name. Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead. :) Increasingly you can treat "St" as a valid spelling of the word "saint", rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English speaker would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty conclusive argument that we should tag "St". (I'm only talking about the UK, of course, and in fact this discussion would be better on talk-gb.) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/shortened-names-tp6556816p6625525.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 July 2011 12:40, Ed Loach wrote: > like S St N on Google where they've abbreviated South Street North, > for example, which just looks silly). This seems to agree with > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes ha, there's a road near me labelled on sign posts as: Grt Sth Rd which must be so easy to interpret for all the none-native english speakers -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27 Jul 2011, at 10:15, Steve Doerr wrote: > On 27/07/2011 03:04, Stephen Hope wrote: > >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes >> >> Um - no. If a place wants to be written "St Albans", then that's the >> name. Just because you pronounce it "Saint Albans" makes no >> difference. >> >> If they'd just shortened it for some signs to save space (like street, >> road etc), then I'd agree with you. But if they want the proper name >> to be St Albans, not Saint Albans, we should respect that. If it is >> how the name is officially spelt, then it's not an abbreviation, even >> if it looks and sounds like one. >> > > I personally prefer 'St' over 'Saint', but I wouldn't go so far as to assert > what Stephen Hope does. After all, in alphabetical lists, names beginning > 'St' have traditionally been sorted as if they were written 'Saint'. I don't think how they're sorted has anything to do with it, if every time the place name is written, it's written "St Albans", even in official documentation of what the town is called, it's name is "St Albans", simple as that. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Detecting deleted data?
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 3:28 PM, André Riedel wrote: > You can use the OWL-Map (OpenStreetMap Watchlist). It shows all > changes in a given area. Thanks both. Looks like the problem is some faulty memory. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names
On 27/07/2011 03:04, Stephen Hope wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes Um - no. If a place wants to be written "St Albans", then that's the name. Just because you pronounce it "Saint Albans" makes no difference. If they'd just shortened it for some signs to save space (like street, road etc), then I'd agree with you. But if they want the proper name to be St Albans, not Saint Albans, we should respect that. If it is how the name is officially spelt, then it's not an abbreviation, even if it looks and sounds like one. I personally prefer 'St' over 'Saint', but I wouldn't go so far as to assert what Stephen Hope does. After all, in alphabetical lists, names beginning 'St' have traditionally been sorted as if they were written 'Saint'. -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
On 27/07/11 09:08, kenneth gonsalves wrote: on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as: The db. Which db would that be exactly? Presumably one you have created somehow from planet, but how exactly did you create it? lat 145921624 lon 864071554 but the map shows the correct figures: lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684 can anyone explain this? Well I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that you have used osm2pgsql to load a postgis database, and that you asked it to create the database in the spherical mercator projection. In which case those numbers are coordinates (in meters from the corner) on a plane which has been projected using the spherical mercator projection. So you need to reverse that projection and project back to EPSG 4326 if you want lat/lon - there are postgis functions to do that. Of course if your primary aim is to get lat/lon out of the database then you'd be better off reloading it and telling osm2pgsql not to project the data to spherical mercator. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
hi, on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as: lat 145921624 lon 864071554 but the map shows the correct figures: lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684 can anyone explain this? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db
hi, on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as: lat 145921624 lon 864071554 but the map shows the correct figures: lat 12.9954832 lon 77.6208684 can anyone explain this? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] querying the postgis db
hi, I know that this sounds a bit of a dumb question: I have installed osm data in a postgis db, and would like to get a list of all localities within a particular city - can anyone give a hint on the sql required for this? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
