Re: [OSM-talk] Call for verification (Was: Re: VANDALISM !)

[Jo]

On Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 11:30 pangoSE  wrote:

> Hi 😀
>
> Mateusz Konieczny  skrev: (22 augusti 2020
> 10:51:49 CEST)
> >(1) Wikipedia may strongly encourage or mandate it in theory, but there
> >are
> >still edits being made without any citations
>
> Yeah I know, but the point is its really hard to create a new article in
> WP without references without it being flagged for deletion. So by
> "threatening" with deletion they raise the bar for inclusion and hence
> hopefully raise the quality too. We have no system to flag for deletion,
> nor to verify an object.
>

I find this highly annoying on Wikipedia and it is the reason I don't
contribute there anymore.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal for Software Dispute Resolution Panel

[Jo]

I support your nomination. You're a really good candidate for it. I would
propose myself, but I don't, as I have almost zero experience with using iD.

Polyglot

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 06:47 Roland Olbricht  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> first of all I'm glad to read that the board addresses the sudden
> funding hole for iD, and does in addition care about the critique around
> iD.
>
> I would like to self-nominate for the software dispute resolution panel.
>
> For my understanding of the task please (re-)read
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2020-June/006909.html
> tl;dr: There is no silver bullet, hence no team of experts is going to
> find one. Conflict resolution is painful work for all involved, but it
> also likely to yield insight and an improved software. I see a panel's
> member's job in encouraging the involved people to keep walking through
> the resolution process.
>
> I also promise resp. reserve the right to share or paraphrase (for the
> purpse of removing personal issues) all communications regarding the
> nomination process. There have been concerns about whether the
> nomination process is balanced and being open is the best way to address
> them. On a personal note: I have no doubts it is, and the artifacts we
> currenty encounter are consistent with a board intensely keeping many
> trains in their rails in parallel.
>
> Regarding potential CoI:
> - I develop the Overpass API but it is intentionally tag agnostic.
> - I do not plan to put the Overpass API under the panel regime.
> Thus, I do not expect any CoI from my contributions as developer to
> OpenStreetMap.
>
> Best regards,
> Roland
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Funding of iD Development and Maintenance

[Jo]

The way I read this, is that there is money that will be used toward
advancing the 3 projects and funding is being sought to finance continued
development of iD. So I'd say there is a difference.

I take it all as good news. Of course, I would also like to see some
financial support for JOSM and Vespucci, but one can only spend each
euro/dollar/pound once, so choices must be made.

Polyglot

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 2:53 PM JB  wrote:

> So, with sarcasm (at least half-)on, and english not being my
> mothertongue: the osm2pgsql/Nomatim/Potlatch grants were just Troyan
> horses to enable the OSMF funding of (ex or not ex?) Mapbox developer,
> with contributors not screaming too loudly? And explaining the iD
> conflict resolution process that was proposed lately (and, surprise,
> accepted by Mapbox iD developers)?
> Much thanks to the iD developers for having kept long, trustful and
> peaceful relationships with the community over the years of iD development.
> Just saying out loud what some people may or may not think, but would
> not dare to write. It does not expect answers.
> JB.
>
> Le 02/08/2020 à 13:44, Mikel Maron a écrit :
> > Hello
> >
> > The OSMF board is working to make OSM's core software and infrastructure
> more stable and sustainable by supporting paid roles for priority needs,
> such as the Senior Site Reliability role (
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2020-July/006973.html),
> and the pilot to fund "OSM Infrastructure" projects (
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2020-August/006987.html
> ).
> >
> > As part of this focus, we want to organise coordinated funding to
> support continued maintenance and development of the iD editor, as iD's
> strong continuous development over the past several years has served the
> OSM community well. Quincy Morgan is iD's maintainer and lead developer.
> Unfortunately, full-time support of his work recently ended. He'd very much
> like to continue, and the OSMF Board wants to see that happen. He has
> written up this proposal (
> https://github.com/quincylvania/quincylvania.com/blob/main/resources/Morgan%20iD%20work%20proposal%207_27.pdf)
> with his ideal plans for iD over the next year, along with notes about how
> he'll organise, grow the developer base, communicate, and set priorities,
> and make iD better. The final priorities for the year will be made in
> consultation with the community.
> >
> > To help fund this project, as well as the SSRE role, we're looking at
> earmarked donations from companies, chapters and organisations.
> Administratively, we believe this is easier than other methods of pooled
> funding, as the OSMF is already in most companies' procurement systems, and
> it would limit paperwork to one contract for iD. Initial contract would be
> for 1 year, and that's what the OSMF would look to raise now.
> >
> > With the OSMF holding the contract, the Board would take a key
> accountability role, reviewing work done on the contract and assessing
> progress on the plans Quincy develops for the project. Additionally, the
> OSMF is working in cooperation with Quincy to establish a formal appeal
> process (
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/06/08/toward-resolution-of-controversies-related-to-id/)
> for the relatively rare community issues iD cannot resolve itself.
> >
> > The OSMF would not see its role as a traditional "boss", instructing iD
> to focus on this or that feature. We would not be prescriptive about
> priorities. This does not mean work in a vacuum. Our expectation is that
> Quincy, in addition to following our hiring framework's principles for
> transparent service to the community, would regularly convene stakeholders
> from the community to share their priorities and feedback. Quincy would
> assess all priorities holistically as he decides on a workable plan for the
> project.
> >
> > Over the course of the year, we'll evaluate and learn from how the
> arrangement is working for all, as we look towards year 2 and beyond. For
> future years, we are looking at developing an overall plan for long-term
> support for all parts of the OSMF infrastructure. We want to be able to
> offer similar support to other OSM editors. Our early focus on iD is to
> ensure continued development.
> >
> > We want to find out what you, the OSM community, think. Do you have any
> feedback?
> >
> > If you know of an organisation that might want to fund this, please feel
> free to ask them to contact the OSMF Board.
> >
> > -Mikel, for the OSMF Board
> >
> > * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> >
> > ___
> > osmf-talk mailing list
> > osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
ht

Re: [OSM-talk] fake mapping

[Jo]

And there is no need to be comprehensive. Map it as you you, little
by little.

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 12:15 Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> Jun 9, 2020, 00:26 by talk@openstreetmap.org:
>
> just to be safe i went to a pre-edit location, less than 5 miles 2 hours
> by public transportation.
>
> the satellite view was wrong, the river area were ponds because of the
> dam, which was not there in 1969
>
> when we went down the river in cement tubs, and the golf cart paths were
> all marked unmaintained track road.
>
> there are pologons around the greens, holes and fairways not the whole
> property, where natural woods
>
> that have separate pologons.
>
> the point is there is to much there to fix.
>
> Yes, in many cases map should be updated. If aerial images are wrong it is
> useful to add
> something like
> note=edited based on survey, as of 2020 Bing aerial imagery is outdated
> and wrong
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Should we map things that do not exist?

[Jo]

Here in Belgium many of these are repurposed as cycling highway
infrastructure. I wouldn't mind having highway=cycleway, railway=razed on
them.

Polyglot

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 1:47 PM Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

>
>
>
> May 25, 2020, 06:37 by jacknst...@sprynet.com:
>
> Greetings.
>
>
> Recently, a user mapped “razed” railways inside a construction zone (link
> below). These rails had been removed by our local mappers since they don’t
> exist anymore. Using the latest imagery (Maxar), you can see the rails have
> been completely removed from “Project 70”, a $1.2 billion Denver-area
> transportation corridor construction project.
>
>
> I think this mapper has good intentions, but what is the point of mapping
> something that does not exist? Doesn’t this clearly contradict the OSM Good
> Practice wiki in regards the sections, “Verifiability”, “Map what's on the
> ground” and “Don't map historic events and historic features”? The last
> section states, "*Do not map objects if they do not exist currently*."
>
> Rails were removed - but is there embankment or something similar that
> makes clear
> that railway line was there?
>
> In cases of still present embankment it is a bit tricky what is border
> between "present" and "gone".
>
> Note also that recently gone objects may be temporarily keep to prevent
> them from accidental
> remapping - for example based on old memory or old aerial images.
>
> But yes, something completely gone can and should be deleted from
> OpenStreetMap
> (temporarily kept in way that marks it as gone if likely to be
> accidentally remapped).
>
> Should we leave (invisible) destroyed buildings in place, tag them as
> razed and then create new buildings on top of them?
>
> I do this to make people using outdated aerial images less confused. And
> delete them
> once aerial images are updated.
>
> I deleted object where people were either importing old objects,
> nonexisting objects unlikely
> to be remapped by accident, supposedly existing old objects that were
> unverifiable.
>
>
> > Should we map things that do not exist?
>
> No, but remapping existing objects as "this is gone now" (building=yes ->
> demolished:building=yes)
> is often a good idea.
>
> But someone adding nonexisting railways, nonexisting buildings, historic
> boundaries and so on
> should stop, and such additions be reverted.
>
> (note that ruined buildings, ruined railways are mappable, just completely
> gone are not).
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SotM 2020 - Move to virtual conference

[Jo]

The reason I'm asking is that I couldn't request a scholarship this year
and SA is too far to travel to at my own expense. Thus, I didn't propose a
talk. If the conference becomes virtual that changes completely.

If things change, I'll most likely (proof)-read it in WeeklyOSM.

Cheers,

Jo

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 2:45 PM Christine Karch 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> the deadline ended a month ago. At the moment it is not planned to call
> for additional submissions. We will ask the speakers of "accepted talks"
> first, and then see what the feedback is. If we have too much
> cancellations, we would make an additional call. But this is not planned
> at the moment, just a thought.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Christine
>
> Am 26.03.20 um 14:41 schrieb Jo:
> > Hi Christine,
> >
> > That's great news, better than to have to cancel it completely anyway.
> >
> > If the conference is virtual, I wouldn't mind submitting a talk for it.
> > Is this still possible?
> >
> > Polyglot
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 1:50 PM Christine Karch  > <mailto:christ...@hermione.de>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > SotM 2020 will be a virtual conference!
> >
> > Due to the high infection risk of SARS-COV-2 virus and all its
> > consequences like travel restrictions, cancellation of physical
> > meetings, "social distancing", and more, a physical SotM is not
> possible
> > this year.
> >
> > The local team - who have done great work preparing this conference
> so
> > far - have suggested to change the physical conference to a virtual
> one.
> > This wasn't just an idle talk:  they have already started a cool open
> > source software project - https://gitlab.com/billowconf/billowconf
> for
> > managing this!
> >
> > So the SotM working group adopted this plan, and agreed to have a
> > virtual SotM conference this year instead of a physical one.
> >
> > We know about your disappointment not meeting each other physically
> this
> > year (we are disappointed too), but after a few months of lockdown
> and
> > "social distancing" we are sure we will all be excited to be reading
> and
> > seeing each other in chats and videos. We will share more of the
> > technical plans as the date comes closer.
> >
> > The date of the conference will stay the same, but shortened to two
> > days: 4-5 July 2020. We planned an extended Q&A session after each
> talk
> > and plenty of free spaces for discussions. So that the OpenStreetMap
> > community can have a great week-end together.
> >
> >
> > Christine
> >
> > on behalf of State of the Map Working Group
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SotM 2020 - Move to virtual conference

[Jo]

Hi Christine,

That's great news, better than to have to cancel it completely anyway.

If the conference is virtual, I wouldn't mind submitting a talk for it. Is
this still possible?

Polyglot

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 1:50 PM Christine Karch 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> SotM 2020 will be a virtual conference!
>
> Due to the high infection risk of SARS-COV-2 virus and all its
> consequences like travel restrictions, cancellation of physical
> meetings, "social distancing", and more, a physical SotM is not possible
> this year.
>
> The local team - who have done great work preparing this conference so
> far - have suggested to change the physical conference to a virtual one.
> This wasn't just an idle talk:  they have already started a cool open
> source software project - https://gitlab.com/billowconf/billowconf for
> managing this!
>
> So the SotM working group adopted this plan, and agreed to have a
> virtual SotM conference this year instead of a physical one.
>
> We know about your disappointment not meeting each other physically this
> year (we are disappointed too), but after a few months of lockdown and
> "social distancing" we are sure we will all be excited to be reading and
> seeing each other in chats and videos. We will share more of the
> technical plans as the date comes closer.
>
> The date of the conference will stay the same, but shortened to two
> days: 4-5 July 2020. We planned an extended Q&A session after each talk
> and plenty of free spaces for discussions. So that the OpenStreetMap
> community can have a great week-end together.
>
>
> Christine
>
> on behalf of State of the Map Working Group
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Jo]

'-' might be used in the name itself, ' - ' never will be. I think
readability is better with ' - ' than with ' / ', but I guess it's a matter
of taste.

Jo

On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 1:46 PM Yves  wrote:

> The wiki description is clear enough:
> name: in general, the most prominent signposted name or the most common
> name in the local language(s)
>
> No plural is used, and for a point in the middle of the sea, one may have
> a hard time to find locals.
> I'd say that puri-lingual name(s) with a separator makes sense, but in
> another tag. That way, people using the data hoping that the name tag
> follows the definition won't be misleaded.
> In the absence of the tag name, they can use whatever fallback they choose
> to. Be it name:xx or this new tag for several bordering languages.
> And yes, the complete absence of the name tag does not bother me at all.
> Yves
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Jo]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:33 PM Hartmut Holzgraefe  wrote:

> On 25.02.20 15:36, Tomek wrote:
>  > Everyone uses the same learning
>  > costs when using Esperanto, they do not have the privileged ones.
>
> I'd assume that the cost argument doesn't hold, it's going to be more
> easy for Europeans than for e.g. Chinese or Japanese. It starts with
> the letters used, which give people that have grown up with a a
> Latinbased language a first head start, and it continues with the
> vocabulary
> that is also favoring (west) European learners. (Can't say anything
> about the grammer, I'm not that deep into it, but I assume the same
> is true for that, too)
>

I actually learned Esperanto and am a great fan.
Learning English properly is notoriously hard for most of the world's
population. Native speakers always are at an advantage.
Europeans coming from Germanic and Scandinavian languages have a bigger
advantage for learning English.
All Europeans have an advantage if they wanted to learn Esperanto.

Esperanto is written like it is spoken and vice versa. Completely phonetic
by design.

The grammar has 20 rules and not a single exception. The grammar is
extremely easy, even when it takes some getting used to at first. But that
can be said about all languages.

Most people can learn the basics in a crash course of 24 hours. Fluency can
be achieved by people used to the Latin script in 3 months, for people
using other scripts this becomes 6 months and then their level would be
better than if they had learned English for 6+ years.

It would be nice if the whole world's population would decide to teach
Esperanto to their children as a second language. 20 years later everyone
would be able to communicate with anyone else, at the same level.

I also realise this is not going to happen anytime soon. The world is more
likely to switch to Chinese instead, than to do something that would make a
lot of sense.

Anyway, the reason I wanted to learn Esperanto is because I wanted to
figure out whether it's possible to express oneself in an 'artificially'
created language; and yes, it's possible. Sometimes with even more nuance
than in other languages.

Anyway, just my €0.2 After having learned Esperanto I have continued to
learn other languages. I wouldn't say it has failed. It's still present
after more than a hundred years. Let's hope the world population comes to
its senses, but I'm not holding my breath.

Having said all that, I don't think it would make sense to put Esperanto in
our name object for international features. Not before 30% of the world's
population decided to learn it first, anyway.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] HOT Summit is looking for a location

[Jo]

It's unlikely that I will be able to make it to South Africa this year, but
I liked that the HOT Summit was adjacent to SotM like it was in Heidelberg
in 2019 and in Brussels a few years ago.

Polyglot

On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 12:00 PM Christine Karch 
wrote:

> Huhu,
>
> Hot Inc asked SotM Working Group because they are looking for a proper
> location for HOT Summit. They would like to hold their conference
> adjecent to SotM as it was in Heidelberg.
>
> We at the SotM Working Group will discuss this on our next meeting. What
> does the community think about this?
>
> Hot Inc has a survey at Twitter at the moment
>
> https://twitter.com/hotosm/status/1219750465098874880
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Christine
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM: hover-Coordinate by easy click into clipboard?

[Jo]

Would this help?
https://pythex.org/?regex=(%5Cd%2B.%5Cd%2B%2C%5Cd%2B.%5Cd%2B)&test_string=geo%3A42.2010%2C20.7331%3Fz%3D14&ignorecase=0&multiline=0&dotall=0&verbose=0

Probably still more involved than what you would like.

Jo

On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 10:51 Oleksiy Muzalyev 
wrote:

> On MacOS it is Command+Shift+C.
>
> I wish there were such a feature on the OSM.org map. Now it is also
> possible to copy the coordinates of a place,
> but one has to copy a long string and then to extract the coordinates from
> it. But is JOSM one gets them directly in the proper format, something
> like: 47.7549028, 36.8379178
>
> Sometimes, when adding a photo to Wikimedia Commons which has got the
> coordinates in its JPG's EXIF properties, still for some reason the
> coordinates do not resurface in the location's latitude and longitude
> fields of the page. So, usually in such a case, I return to the OSM.org
> page, copy the long string and then extract the coordinates from it
> manually.
>
> Maybe there is such a feature on the OSM.org page, but I just did not
> notice it yet. Perhaps, I can also point a cursor to a place and do some
> keyboard combination and only the coordinates are copied.
>
> Best regards,
> Oleksiy
>
> On 1/8/20 05:52, Erwin Olario wrote:
>
> In JOSM, on an active layer, while a node is selected, you can press
> CTRL+SHIFT+C and it will copy its coordinates to memory.
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 09:43 tshrub  wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> in JOSM's status bar the mouse position is constantly running as a
>> coordinate. Is there any easy way to get it, may be by keyboard into the
>> clipboard?
>> I want to edit GPS data from, or better: add GPS-data to trackless
>> photos - I want to place them like this with JOSM' sat-pictures.
>>
>> bella saluti
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing 
> listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Jo]

You forgot OpenStreetMap.fr and osm.be

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020, 07:18 Michael Collinson  wrote:

> On 2020-01-07 18:27, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>
> 6 Jan 2020, 16:35 by dieterdre...@gmail.com:
>
> On 6. Jan 2020, at 07:29, Maarten Deen  
> wrote:
>
> Baltic Sea to be the "Baltic Sea" or for South America to be "South
> America" - this is an example of English imperialism.
>
> This "imperialism" idea of yours is just your idea. It is not something
> that is widely felt.
>
> regarding imperialism, I think it’s hard to reject the reasoning that
> English is in widespread use because of imperialism.
>
> Yes, but using it for a pragmatic reasons
> for an international communication is
> usually not imperialism.
>
> I can try to communicate with group of  people
> from different countries in Polish,
> Latin, Sindarin or Esperanto.
>
> But except rare cases using English is likely
> to result in more efficient communication.
>
> Totally agree with Mateusz. English is the current trading language. It
> has been Farsi and other languages in the past. It will probably Mandarin
> Chinese/simplified hanji in the future. But right now it is English.
>
> I think the whole debate misses the point. The OSM database is
> language-agnostic right now. The https://www.openstreetmap.org slippy map
> was intended to A map show-casing the database. But it has turned into THE
> map.
>
> A potential solution is to offer centralised support for other lingual
> (and culture, which is not always the same thing) maps. That of course is a
> much easier thing to say rather than do as it requires time and money
> resource, but it puzzles me why 15 years into the project we only have 4
> layers on our main site.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> Note that we do have some great projects in the wealthier economies such
> as https://openstreetmap.se/ https://openstreetmap.jp
> https://www.openstreetmap.de/  ... Why aren't these integrated in some
> way into our main site !?
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] We got permission to continue tracing from Strava

[Jo]

That's good news indeed. It can be a usefu additional tooll to find smaller
ways we don't have yet. Or to confirm that it is possible to pass somewhere.

Jo

On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 8:33 AM pangose  wrote:

> Good news for OSM!
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Permissions/Strava
>
> Also the Strava fork of iD might still be working. See
> http://strava.github.io/iD/#background=Bing&map=17.00/-110.02947/53.27094
>
> Hooray 😃
>
> Cheers
> pangoSE
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetCam to Mapillary?

[Jo]

I can imagine they can have such a restriction for photos made with their
app. (Don't know if they do, too much legalese to wade through), but photos
made with an action cam are yours, so you can do whatever you want with
them. I would expect that photos made with either app, should also be your
intellectual property, you made the effort of producing them. What you do
with them, should be your own choice.

Of course you can't download other people's photos and contribute them to
the 'competition'.

That wasn't the question though. I don't know if you can download your own
photos from OpenStreetCam again in the native resolution. I'm pretty sure
you can from Mapillary, but never felt the need to do so. I'm glad they are
parked there and I don't have to worry about storing them

Polyglot

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 8:04 PM Rodrigo Rodríguez 
wrote:

> If you haven't deleted the photos from your device after uploading them
> to OSC (the app gives you the option to remove or not photos), you can
> also submit them to Mapillary.
>
> I'm not familiarized with OSC but if you can download photos to your
> local devices, you can upload them later using Mapuillary-tools
> [https://github.com/mapillary/mapillary_tools].
>
> Said done that, you will have to check whether you can do that or not,
> according to licenses and usage policies from both services. I remember
> once have read about a restrictive usage policy from Mapillary, in which
> you can't use photos uploaded to the project for another services (like
> OpenStreetCam). Vice versa doesn't work that way (OSC was/is more open
> in that sense), but I am not aware if that has changed.
>
> On 25/9/19 08:28, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > Is there a good way to export all your data from OpenStreetCam, in order
> > to consolidate it on a Mapillary account?
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Jo]

Mapping for the renderer means: adding factually wrong data such that it
renders the way the mapper wants to see it getting rendered (on the
standard rendering).

That's not what adding IPA strings would do. True, there are multiple ways
to pronounce certain words.

Unfortunately TTS is not perfect and it never will be, for one thing
because it's often difficult to decide with TTS (which language) to use for
each word in a name string.

If OsmAND were to support the use of IPA, then I would be motivated to
transcribe all Brussels's street names in Dutch and French. Standard common
denominator Dutch and French. It would be a lot nicer to listen to than the
letters A U X spelled separately in Dutch, instead of simply 'O', what
would be the French pronunciation of those 3 letters combined. Some of the
terms in those street names are actually English names. It's simply
impossible for TTS set to Dutch or French to get those right.

IPA would definitely solve that annoyance.

Polyglot

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 12:58 AM Andrew Errington 
wrote:

> I think this is a rendering issue (i.e. rendering speech instead of
> graphics) and as such does not belong in OSM.
>
> The work to convert an arbitrary string into speech belongs in the TTS
> engine.
>
> If we start putting IPA strings in OSM then we will start getting
> arguments about the "correct" pronunciation. At the very least it is
> tagging for the renderer, which we should avoid.
>
> IMHO, of course.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 09:20 Greg Troxel  wrote:
>
>> John Whelan  writes:
>>
>> > One or two are problematic usually as the street name is an
>> > abbreviation.For example 1e Avenue in French meaning First Avenue.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions on how these should be handled?  This particular
>> > application is aimed at partially sighted people but I feel we should
>> > be able to come up with a generic solution.
>>
>> Two comments:
>>
>>   osm norms are to expand abbreviations, as I understand it.  So that
>>   should be fixed first
>>
>>   Even after that, we have ref tags, and there is often a road whose ref
>>   is something like "CT 2", "US 1", or "I 95".  I don't really think
>>   this should be expanded in the database.  Instead, what's needed is a
>>   table in the application, perhaps centrally maintained in OSM, of how
>>   to pronounce standardize ref abbreviations.  Putting phonetics of
>>   "connecticut" on all use of CT or the expanded name is not reasonable.
>>
>>
>> But I agree this needs help.  I get told to turn on "Court 2" and "Ma
>> 2".  Luckily I understand this by now and it actually works ok.  But it
>> does need fixing.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Jo]

If we were to make such exceptions, we would get into trouble really fast,
as some streets are signed differently on one end and on the other,
depending how big the street sign is, or in what period it was put there.

Expanding abbreviations is the norm. I try to do it even for first and
middle names of people, when the street is named after a person. That only
works if it's possible to find it somewhere, of course.

Polyglot

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:40 PM Colin Smale  wrote:

> On 2019-07-16 19:07, Nuno Caldeira wrote:
>
> also on the the standard mapping convetions, its mentioned in bold :
>
> Don't use abbreviations
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions
>
>
>
> But exceptions are made in some cases, including where the signage uses
> the abbreviation:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Jo]

When using OsmAnd in the streets of Brussels, it doesn't matter what the
language is set to, the French - Dutch combo is consistently pronounced
wrongly.

IPA would indeed solve that.

Editor support would be very welcome to enter the proper characters and to
listen to the result, both in JOSM and iD. And maybe even to help mappers
get started with the most likely pronunciation for a given language.

It would need to be used for ALL tags that contain names, not only the ones
that have 'deviant' pronunciation. In a mutlilingual system it's almost
impossible to define what is and what isn't 'deviating', as the
pronunciation rules are different across almost all languages.

For JOSM, should I propose this as GSoC project for next summer, or would
it not be that hard to implement by our overworked core developers? Or
would it make sense I
give it a go myself?

Polyglot

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 7:10 PM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> also on the the standard mapping convetions, its mentioned in bold :
>
> Don't use abbreviations
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editing_Standards_and_Conventions
>
> A terça, 16/07/2019, 18:05, Stefan Baebler 
> escreveu:
>
>> I think IPA (
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet ) would 
>> address
>> that problem, but that would require many more tags, which are not trivial
>> for mappers to write.
>>
>> Br,
>> Štefan
>>
>>
>> V tor., 16. jul. 2019 17:55 je oseba Colin Smale 
>> napisala:
>>
>>> The reason for wanting to expand abbreviations in OSM is surely to avoid
>>> ambiguity, not specifically to aid pronunciation or recognition. In the
>>> case of "1e ..." in a certain language context, would that not be
>>> unambiguous? Would a speech synthesiser not know how it should be spoken in
>>> its working language?
>>>
>>> Slight digression: The question does arise of which rules to use to
>>> pronounce foreign names. If I am in Warsaw for example and my satnav
>>> started pronouncing street names in pure Polish I might not recognise any
>>> of them (apologies to any Poles in the audience). But how would it speak
>>> such that I would recognise it, if I was looking for a string with loads of
>>> Ws and Zs that means nothing to me? Use English rules to pronounce a Polish
>>> word?
>>>
>>> On the other hand, if I was in Paris, I would expect it to use French
>>> rules, because I understand French and using English rules would sound
>>> weird although it might well give a lot of laughs...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2019-07-16 17:36, John Whelan wrote:
>>>
>>> This approach I like.  Name:expanded perhaps?
>>>
>>> To go back to earlier ideas.
>>>
>>> Expanding the name sounds sensible but unfortunately the street signs
>>> are posted with the abbreviation and some local mappers have a what is on
>>> the sign goes in the map mentality.  Also we have had discussions about
>>> street names in Canada before and the decision was what the municipality
>>> declares the street name is correct.  That was to do with either "rue
>>> Sparks" or should it be "Rue Sparks" in Quebec it would be one way but in
>>> Ontario the other.
>>>
>>> Thoughts
>>>
>>> Thanks John
>>>
>>> Colin Smale wrote on 2019-07-16 11:30 AM:
>>>
>>> On 2019-07-16 16:54, John Whelan wrote:
>>>
>>> One or two are problematic usually as the street name is an
>>> abbreviation.For example 1e Avenue in French meaning First Avenue.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions on how these should be handled?  This particular
>>> application is aimed at partially sighted people but I feel we should be
>>> able to come up with a generic solution.
>>>
>>> Some kind of phonetic (IPA?) representation would be the ultimate
>>> generic solution. Here in NL (and I guess in many other countries) there
>>> are street names which are partially or entirely in other languages, and
>>> the expectation is that they are pronounced as such. For example, Boeing
>>> Avenue would sound completely weird if it were pronounced according to
>>> Dutch rules. Truly multi-lingual countries like Belgium and Switzerland
>>> should be able to make use of name:XX.
>>>
>>> If we had name:XX:ipa=* we would have a place to put it, but the client
>>> app would need to have a way of turning that into sounds. It will only be
>>> needed if the pronunciation deviates from the standard for the language in
>>> question, but speech synthesisers are never perfect and often make
>>> mistakes
>>>
>>>
>>> https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/264239/is-there-any-online-tool-to-read-pronounce-ipa-and-apa-written-words
>>>
>>> Of course we will also need a way of entering IPA symbols
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing 
>>> listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from Postbox 
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

Re: [OSM-talk] Remove validation rule asking to add highway=footway to railway/public_transport=platform

[Jo]

For a very long time I have been trying to adopt the public_transport
scheme. After several years of asking it would be rendered on its own
without the need for highway=bus_stop tags, I'm giving up on it and came to
the conclusion that

highway=bus_stop on nodes next to the highway

and

highway=platform / railway=platform on dedicated OSM ways, where actual
platforms exist

works just fine.

This has been discussed on the public transport list very recently, but as
usual, without any resolution one way or the other. Status quo rules.

It is disingenious of iD developers to muddy the waters further though.

Polyglot

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 3:55 PM Dave F via talk 
wrote:

> On 27/05/2019 12:23, Phil Wyatt wrote:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dplatform
> >
> > This suggests replacing highway=platform with public_transport=platform
>
> Most of the public_transport=* tags are pure duplicates of existing,
> more popular tags. They add nothing to the OSM database except confusion
> & errors.
>
> Even the person who conceived the scheme admits it didn't work &
> recommending it be dropped.
>
> It's disappointing & frustrating to see the iD editor promote them with
> the inaccurate claim of "Some tags change over time and should be updated."
>
> DaveF
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remove validation rule asking to add highway=footway to railway/public_transport=platform

[Jo]

And the disease is spreading:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Jnd

I'm scared. This needs to be mitigated, but indeed, how?

Jo

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:03 PM Jo  wrote:

> I went to check a platform tagged as
>
> highway=platform
>
> which is perfectly alright.
>
> iD tells me that's deprecated and suggests to change it to:
>
> public_transport=platform
> bus=yes
>
> Then upon uploading it tells me another "improvement" can be made:
>
> highway=footway
>
> So they are transposing highway=platform to highway=footway. Odd.
>
> Anyway, complaining about it on a mailing list doesn't have any effect,
> complaining about it on github will get the issue closed in no time.
>
> I also think a time out for iD makes sense, until they will start to
> listen to the community. Tough call, of course and they know it.
>
> Oh well,
>
> Back to JOSM for me.
>
> Jo
>
> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:57 PM Richard Fairhurst 
> wrote:
>
>> Andrew Hain wrote:
>> > Have a new team of developers code from the codebase of iD.
>> > Write a new online editor from scratch.
>> > Abandon online editing and tell everyone to use an offline editor.
>>
>> Please stop trolling.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from:
>> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Remove validation rule asking to add highway=footway to railway/public_transport=platform

[Jo]

I went to check a platform tagged as

highway=platform

which is perfectly alright.

iD tells me that's deprecated and suggests to change it to:

public_transport=platform
bus=yes

Then upon uploading it tells me another "improvement" can be made:

highway=footway

So they are transposing highway=platform to highway=footway. Odd.

Anyway, complaining about it on a mailing list doesn't have any effect,
complaining about it on github will get the issue closed in no time.

I also think a time out for iD makes sense, until they will start to listen
to the community. Tough call, of course and they know it.

Oh well,

Back to JOSM for me.

Jo

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:57 PM Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> Andrew Hain wrote:
> > Have a new team of developers code from the codebase of iD.
> > Write a new online editor from scratch.
> > Abandon online editing and tell everyone to use an offline editor.
>
> Please stop trolling.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Relation #2632934 is "killing" differential update

[Jo]

I split the route relation in 2. Didn't fix the erroneous use of
route_master though.

Polyglot

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 12:30 PM Jo  wrote:

> I'm looking into it, but someone completely misunderstood the use of
> route_master relations and all those relations should be split in at least
> 2, for each direction of travel / variation in itinerary.
>
> Jo
>
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 12:27 PM Maarten Deen  wrote:
>
>> On 2019-02-11 12:14, Roland Olbricht wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > the relevant changesets are
>> > 65448087 (for version 99, created_by "upload.py v. 1") and
>> > 67093992 (for version 106, created_by "Vespucci 12.1.2.0").
>> >
>> > I cite the user agents because the data looks like unintentionally
>> > changed that way.
>> > I have left a bug report on Vespucci, see
>> > https://github.com/MarcusWolschon/osmeditor4android/issues/859
>>
>> I have removed all duplicates from the relation but done nothing to
>> check remaining data for correctness. It's only 350 unique members.
>>
>> Maarten
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Relation #2632934 is "killing" differential update

[Jo]

I'm looking into it, but someone completely misunderstood the use of
route_master relations and all those relations should be split in at least
2, for each direction of travel / variation in itinerary.

Jo

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 12:27 PM Maarten Deen  wrote:

> On 2019-02-11 12:14, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > the relevant changesets are
> > 65448087 (for version 99, created_by "upload.py v. 1") and
> > 67093992 (for version 106, created_by "Vespucci 12.1.2.0").
> >
> > I cite the user agents because the data looks like unintentionally
> > changed that way.
> > I have left a bug report on Vespucci, see
> > https://github.com/MarcusWolschon/osmeditor4android/issues/859
>
> I have removed all duplicates from the relation but done nothing to
> check remaining data for correctness. It's only 350 unique members.
>
> Maarten
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help regarding GSOC

[Jo]

Hi Vasu,

It's indeed great to see you're interested at this early stage. If you like
we can have a hangout, where I'll demo JOSM to you. JOSM is our advanced
editor and it's written in Java. We can talk about improvements that can be
made to it. But first I'll show you how to use it to map. It's important to
understand the data model.

When you get started and just draw roads and buildings or add POIs, it's
relatively simple. So that's a good place to start. When you start using it
to create itineraries (bicycle, hiking, public transport, etc), turn
restrictions and multipolygons it becomes a bit more complex and that's
where the editor could become more helpful to assist mappers and make them
more productive.

Let me know when you would have time for a Google Hangout.

Polyglot

Op do 13 sep. 2018 om 20:32 schreef vasu dev Singh <
vasudevsingh...@gmail.com>:

> I am, Vasu Dev Singh, a 3rd-year undergraduate majoring in *Mathematics
> and Computing* at *IIT Delhi*, India, which was ranked first among
> engineering colleges in India by *QS World University Ranking. *I want to
> do a project with OpenStreetMap but I don’t know how to start. I have a
> good command on java.It will be an honor if you guide me and provide me
> with study material so that I can start preparing for GSOC 2019.I don’t
> know how its works and I am not able to access your mailing list. I will be
> waiting for your reply.
>
>
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Jo]

I would think that if you are in the field, apps like OsmAnd and Maps.ME
can show you the OLC address of where you are.

If you want to see a grid in JOSM or iD, it should be trivial to either
show them as transparent imagery, or in the case of JOSM, have a plugin
draw the grid and show it as an extra layer you can toggle on or off.

I also don't see a reason to add the OLC codes in tags in the database,
even if marked on a building.

If I paint the coordinates of my house on it, are you going to map that
too? And if so, would you add them to lon and lat tags or to addr:housename?

Polyglot

Op ma 13 aug. 2018 om 18:23 schreef Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org>:

> Hi Tom,
>
> This is an example of the first way I and I think others in the
> humanitarian world need to use OLCs to evaluate them for what they can
> or can not solve for humanitarian and other use cases:
>
> https://twitter.com/BlakeGirardot/status/1028689726088388609
>
> We need to deal with them at scale, not at the "look up" an individual
> address process which is trivial to solve.
>
> That is really the first step, for folks to learn the grid and it's
> inherent scale steps and how that translates into OLC codes of various
> lengths.
>
> Cheers,
> blake
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Tom Lee  wrote:
> > I'm surprised to see that this conversation has made it past the weekend.
> > Since it has, let me add my voice to those suggesting that encoding OLC
> in
> > the database (or any other values that can be algorithmically derived
> from
> > geometry) makes very little sense. I'm grateful to everyone who has
> already
> > made this point, in various ways and with various levels of forcefulness.
> >
> > If the folks advocating for OLC would like to walk through the rationale
> > some more or explore alternative ways of getting OLC into their
> workflow, I
> > suspect that a number of people on this thread would be happy to talk
> > through it, myself included. Please don't hesitate to email.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Is it technically and legally possible to add the Open Location Code to the OSM search?

[Jo]

Op za 11 aug. 2018 om 11:24 schreef mmd :

>
> With all due respect, I think we've long crossed that point:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/KSJ2%3Alat
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ngbe%3Alat_ed50
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/gns%3ALAT
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/latitude
>
> If you look at the distribution on the map for the first 3, they are all
in 'clusters'. It shouldn't be too hard to remove them, but given that it
would require going through the hassle of requesting permission, I don't
see who would care enough to do that.

It would be easier to simply add them to JOSM's  list of keys it will
discard upon upload.

Polyglot.

PS: Roland, would it make sense to add a possibility to the Overpass API to
'generate' these "addresses"'on-the-fly?
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Lua modules are here: Improving OSM wiki templates

[Jo]

I'm afraid it's not useful on our wiki. First of because our pages are not
connected to Wikidata (for obvious reasons).

But if people want to have a look at Lua code, or if they want to use it on
a Wikipedia to refer back to OSM objects, that's where it could be useful.

Jo

Op zo 29 jul. 2018 om 15:09 schreef Yuri Astrakhan :

> Thanks Jo, now you can copy it to OSM wiki if you think it would be
> useful! :)
>
> On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 3:06 PM Jo  wrote:
>
>> This is only tangentially related, but I created a Lua module for the
>> wikipedias a few years ago:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:OSM
>>
>> It generates an Overpass Query showing all the objects related to the
>> Wikipedia entry via wikidata tags in the OSM data.
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>> Op zo 29 jul. 2018 om 15:01 schreef Yuri Astrakhan <
>> yuriastrak...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi everyone.  Thanks to Tom Hughes, we now have Scribunto extension set
>>> up on OSM wiki, which allows Lua language in addition to the very slow and
>>> unreadable wiki template language.
>>>
>>> Documentation:
>>> *
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual
>>> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lua
>>>
>>> Benefits:
>>> * Much better performance compared with wiki template language
>>> * Substantially more readable
>>> * Allows greater flexibility with how templates are set up
>>>
>>> Migration:
>>> The usual migration is to re-implement complex and often-used templates
>>> in Lua (as a Module:* pages), and keep the existing template as a "wrapper"
>>> - a one-liner with {{#invoke:mymodulepage|mymodulefunction}}.  This way
>>> existing pages do not need to be changed, but get all the performance
>>> benefits.
>>>
>>> Template info:
>>> Create a "doc" sub-page, e.g.  Module:/doc  and put all the
>>> documentation there.
>>>
>>> Testing:
>>> I would advise to create "unit tests" for the complex templates. The
>>> simplest way is to create a   Module:/doc   page with a
>>> table of all possible usages of the module, There is also a good practice
>>> page
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lua#Unit_testing
>>>
>>> Once again, thanks Tom for helping with this!
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Lua modules are here: Improving OSM wiki templates

[Jo]

This is only tangentially related, but I created a Lua module for the
wikipedias a few years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:OSM

It generates an Overpass Query showing all the objects related to the
Wikipedia entry via wikidata tags in the OSM data.

Polyglot

Op zo 29 jul. 2018 om 15:01 schreef Yuri Astrakhan :

> Hi everyone.  Thanks to Tom Hughes, we now have Scribunto extension set up
> on OSM wiki, which allows Lua language in addition to the very slow and
> unreadable wiki template language.
>
> Documentation:
> * https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual
> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lua
>
> Benefits:
> * Much better performance compared with wiki template language
> * Substantially more readable
> * Allows greater flexibility with how templates are set up
>
> Migration:
> The usual migration is to re-implement complex and often-used templates in
> Lua (as a Module:* pages), and keep the existing template as a "wrapper" -
> a one-liner with {{#invoke:mymodulepage|mymodulefunction}}.  This way
> existing pages do not need to be changed, but get all the performance
> benefits.
>
> Template info:
> Create a "doc" sub-page, e.g.  Module:/doc  and put all the
> documentation there.
>
> Testing:
> I would advise to create "unit tests" for the complex templates. The
> simplest way is to create a   Module:/doc   page with a
> table of all possible usages of the module, There is also a good practice
> page
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lua#Unit_testing
>
> Once again, thanks Tom for helping with this!
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Documentation issues of PT tagging schemes

[Jo]

For me the fact that highway=bus_stop is only allowed on nodes is a plus,
not a minus.

The reason why I would like us all to use nodes for representing the stops
is that a route relation with  a single node for each stop and then a
continuous linked string of ways is conceptually about as simple as it can
get.

I would prefer no to use stop_area relations in the route relations as it
adds a layer of indirection, which I feel is unneeded.

Oddly I wouldn't mind that for the ways though. For those it would indeed
be beneficial to group them in sub route relations. We need support in
editors though. I created some tickets to improve JOSM in that direction
(show continuity line if first way in sub relation connects to last way in
route / same for last way/next way in route). That would have to be part of
another proposal though.

I'd like to simplify first and then propose these sub relations for the
ways. Drawing the continuity line is one thing, visualising the whole
itinerary is another that become harder to do.

Anyway, you are saying that you think it's alright to duplicate details
between stop_position node/platform node, platform way and stop_area
relation and that is exactly what I think is the main problem with the
current way of mapping. The details should go onto 1 single object that
represents the stop and that object should be the (only) one added to the
route relations. stop_area relations can be useful to show which objects
belong together, but only if there is one for each stop. If they just group
everything for several stops that are near to one another, they can just as
well be left out.

Polyglot



Op do 26 jul. 2018 om 09:09 schreef DC Viennablog :

> Hello,
>
> I have been following the discussion about p_t:v2 and would like to also
> throw in my point of view.
>
> In my opinion, a few things need to change, but some should stay as they
> are now.
>
>
>1. I would love to have the highway=bus_stop tag depricated. The whole
>confusion I think comes from the highway=* and railway=* tags. Those should
>mostly be dropped in regards to stop positions.
>2. The public_transport tags should become the new main attraction. I
>would leave the stop_position tag. That would go as follows:
>
> *On a node on the road / tracks*:
>
> public_transport=stop_position
>
> bus=yes / trolleybus=yes / tram=yes / train=yes
>
> name=*
>
> optional tags: network, local_ref, alt_name, uic_name, note, description...
>
>
> *On a node, way or polygon/multipoligon on the side of the road/track *(*as
> a platform*):
>
> public_transport=platform
> maybe optional: bus=yes / trolleybus=yes / tram=yes / train=yes
> optional tags: name, network, operator (as in the company that actually
> maintaines the station, which can differ from the line operators), note,
> description ...
>
> Those two elememts could be put in a* stop_area *relation, and multiple
> stop_area relations that belong together in a * stop_area_group *relation,
> that can be tagged with:
> name=*
> optional tags: network, operator (as explained above), alt_name, uic_name,
> note, description...
>
> Then, the tags like railway=halt and railway=station, which in my opinion
> are to specific for osm could be removed, making mapping the stops of
> raillines much easier. (In german, that is the endless discussion whether a
> trainstop is a station (Bahnhof) or halt (Haltestelle). That is quite
> unimportant in most cases. If need be, we could map the infrastructure
> (landuse or building) as a public_transport=station or
> public_transport=halt instead)).
>
> In terms of the route relation, we then could add the stop_area relations
> to the route relation with a *stop *role.
>
> 3. One problem adressed some time earlier was the great amount of
> redundance that the route relations add to the database. There was a, not
> even that bad, though somewhat inpractible sugesstion, to sum up some roads
> in route part relations, and always when those routes would need to be
> added to a relation, we add the relation of routes instead. I had a look
> around vienna and found a few instances, where that would work great, and
> some, where that would potentially yield the same amount or more entries
> than in the first place. But that sugestion could also be a possibility at
> also allowing that, in addition to single roads in a route relation.
>
> I hope my description of my idea is understandable.
>
> Kind Regards
> Robin D (emergency99)
>
> PS: I mapped all bus-lines in Vienna the way that I think the p_t:v2
> scheme is supposed to work (keeping to the wiki as much as it doesn't
> contradict itself). The problem with the highway=bus_stop tag is, that it
> is only allowed on nodes. So as soon as the platform becomes
> "micro-mapped", the bus_stop has to move from the platform to the
> stop_position, which to me, as a new mapper in 2014, screamed: "That node
> is the most important part of the whole thing". Which obvously it isn't but
> tell that to an 

Re: [OSM-talk] [Imports] Automated edit for bus lines in Paris area

[Jo]

A tool to help with this kind of integration is being developed as a Google
Summer of Code project. It's in early stages and focused on GTFS feeds, but
we can look into doing this for lists of stops with approximate coordinates
as well.

Polyglot

Op di 5 jun. 2018 om 08:59 schreef Stefan de Konink :

> If this will be allowed, I would want to do the same for The Netherlands.
>
> Stefan
>
> On dinsdag 5 juni 2018 06:45:22 CEST, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > "Summary: Adding values for two existing tags to bus stops"
> >
> >  example edit changes three tags.
> >
> > The same in the proposed changes etc comment.
> >
> > "This provides a link between the OSM node and the STIF stop_id."
> >
> > And how this match is obtained?
> >
> > Is source code of program generating matches and making edit
> > published somewhere?
> >
> > How edits will be split to avoid mega-edit changing thousands
> > of objects with massive bounding box?
> >
> > I see no mention of changeset tags - and wiki recommends adding some.
> >
> > 5 Jun 2018, 00:15 by ok...@johnfreed.com:
> > I am planning an automated edit to improve our coverage of two
> > existing tags in the Paris region. The data source is the
> > regional transit coordinating agency, Île-de-France Mobilité,
> > formerly STIF.
> >
> > There is a question about wheelchair access that I would like feedback
> on.
> >
> > If there is no need for a significant change, I plan to
> > implement this around June 20.
> >
> > Please make comments here or on the Discussion page attached to
> > the proposal:
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_edits/johnparis
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > John
> >
> > !DSPAM:1,5b16340e79641880612683!
>
> --
> Stefan
>
> ___
> Imports mailing list
> impo...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] More secondary attributes for schools

[Jo]

This may be better stored in Wikidata. And the OSM school object simply
points to wikidata.

Wikidata has support for such historical statistics data.

Polyglot

2018-05-27 13:14 GMT+02:00 Tom Pfeifer :

> On 27.05.2018 12:47, Gaurav Thapa wrote:
>
>> Recently, in Nepal we have been getting more and more requests from
>> government and private schools to be able to upload more information about
>> their schools to OSM. These in particular include detailed data such as
>> number of boys in grade 1, number of girls in grade 5 and number of
>> permanent staff etc. This data is nationally collected every year by
>> schools and are seen as valuable in letting schools, communities and
>> districts know where there are failing girls in the education ladder or to
>> just understanding general diversity in schools.
>>
>
> The 'capacity' key is widely used for schools and kindergarten facilities,
> for the whole object, thus it indicates the size.
>
> I would not encourage annual statistics about number of pupils in each
> grade in OSM. This can be overlaid from separate databases.
>
> I was initially planning on posting this in the Nepal talk list but
>> decided that this might be something other countries might be interested in
>> as well hence sharing it here. Current, tags that I have found are more
>> generic such as isced:levels=* and grades=*. Do you suggest that we propose
>> tags specifically to Nepal or do you even think data such as this should be
>> in OSM?
>>
>
> isced:levels=*  is internationally valid and widely accepted.
> grades=* was recently pushed by an individual Canadian mapper and is
> controversial since it is heterogeneous in meaning between countries, and
> even within the same country different counting is used (e.g. starting to
> count grade 1 again for the secondary school).
>
> tom
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Tool to change dual carriageway to sinjle preserving route relations?

[Jo]

PT_Assistant can probably be of some help to 'sanitize' them again, or at
least notify you of which relations aren't continuous anymore.

Polyglot

2018-05-11 0:47 GMT+02:00 Andrew Hain :

> Is there a tool that preserves bus route relations properly whlle
> correcting a road currently mapped as dual carriageway to predominantly
> single carriageway?
>
> --
> Andrew
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Jo]

Marc,

I probably shouldn't have mentioned Switzerland. I thought it was "nicely"
divided into clear language regions, but apparently not. My only experience
with it was that in the part neighboring Germany they spoke something that
resembled German somewhat, but once we passed the Sankth-Gottard pass,
everyone spoke Italian (and hardly any German).

In Belgium, at least, it's completely defined in what language official
signs should be written in, in each of the regions.

In most parts of the world, I think this is not the case, which makes it
hard to set this default_language tag, without mentioning all the
'possible' ones. I guess the best we can achieve is cover the majority and
then use name:language for the exceptions?

Jo

2018-05-10 11:35 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> Don't you think that Belgians like Jo and the rest of the Belgian
> community know best what the default language is in a certain area ?
> This can be a pretty sensitive topic, which is not always easy to
> understand by outsiders. So please let the Belgian community decide
> the default language without pointing us to our constitution.
>
>
> regards
>
> m. (from Belgium)
>
>
> p.s. Besides those areas you mention we also have Municipalities with
> facilities [1]
>
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipalities_with_language_facilities
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Oleksiy Muzalyev
>  wrote:
> > On 09.05.18 07:46, Jo wrote:
> >>
> >> The whole country has 3 official languages. In the north nl is the
> >> official language, in the south fr. And a small area in the east is de.
> >> Brussels is officially bilingual. Hence all names there will be a
> >> combination of fr - nl.
> >>
> >> Normally I would expect Belgium to not have default_language set. You
> may
> >> have to keep a list of countries where it only makes sense to look at
> the
> >> next smaller geographic regions.
> >>
> >> I expect the same goes for Switzerland (whole country 3-4 official
> >> languages, but at the next geographic level it is clear which language
> is
> >> spoken/official for which region).
> >>
> >> I think in most multilingual countries the regions are not so clearly
> >> defined.
> >>
> >> Jo
> >
> >
> > Hello Jo and Yuri,
> >
> > Here is the text of the article 4 of the Belgian constitution [1]
> >
> > "Article 4
> > Belgium comprises four linguistic regions: the Dutch-speaking region, the
> > French-
> > speaking region, the bilingual region of Brussels-Capital and the
> > German-speaking region.
> > Each municipality of the Kingdom forms part of one of these linguistic
> > regions."
> >
> > In the Swiss constitution [2] it is stated directly that there are four
> > national languages. It is also the article 4:
> >
> > "Art. 4 National languages
> > The National Languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh."
> >
> > It is not a light question, - which language is the default one for these
> > countries. In my opinion, following these official texts is the best
> > solution.
> >
> > [1]
> > https://www.dekamer.be/kvvcr/pdf_sections/publications/
> constitution/GrondwetUK.pdf
> > [2]
> > https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/
> 19995395/index.html#a4
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Oleksiy
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Jo]

Where problems actually do occur is in streets which have a different name
on both sides (only in Belgium, I guess. It happens on streets that form
the border between two 'villages'). Anyway, then the name tag can contain
up to 4 variants.

The separator is ' - ' on purpose, to distinguish it from a simple hyphen.
We were smart enough not to use that ' - ' combination for anything else
than separating 2 language forms. And there is always a name:nl and name:fr
to compare with on those objects.

Jo

2018-05-10 1:10 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 10. May 2018, at 00:47, Yuri Astrakhan 
> wrote:
> >
> > In the few rare cases when it does happen, it would be enough to also
> add "name:fr" and "name:nl" tags to fix the issue -- localization would
> take the specific language, and won't even try to parse the name tag.  I
> think finding these cases should be relatively easy with OT.
>
>
> The problem I see with less prominent objects is that you only have a name
> and can’t tell whether that is one name in one language or 2 names in
> different languages for the same thing separated by a hyphen. Potentially
> this could happen in other tags like operator as well.
>
> cheers,
> Martin
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Jo]

The whole country has 3 official languages. In the north nl is the official
language, in the south fr. And a small area in the east is de. Brussels is
officially bilingual. Hence all names there will be a combination of fr -
nl.

Normally I would expect Belgium to not have default_language set. You may
have to keep a list of countries where it only makes sense to look at the
next smaller geographic regions.

I expect the same goes for Switzerland (whole country 3-4 official
languages, but at the next geographic level it is clear which language is
spoken/official for which region).

I think in most multilingual countries the regions are not so clearly
defined.

Jo

2018-05-09 2:37 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :

> Polyglot, thanks!  I just ran the list of names for Belgium -
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yEj (takes a few minutes and 20MB download).
> It seems that most of the names are single language.  Even cities tend to
> be a single language strings, with a few exceptions (e.g. Brussels itself,
> and the country name).
>
> So on one hand, we could set default_language to "nl / fr / de" to match
> the country name format, or to two languages that match "Bruxelles -
> Brussel"  ("fr - nl" ?). But in reality, the most helpful value is just a
> single "nl" or "fr" (?), because for almost all "name" tags, there is just
> a single language. The country name is a very rare exception, but it has
> many other name:xx defined anyway, so it is not a problem - if user
> requests "fr" or "nl", there is a name:fr and name:nl. And if user requests
> something that's not defined, at the end it will still fall back to name
> tag.
>
> What do you think?
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:39 AM Jo  wrote:
>
>> Since there is not 1 language for Belgium and nl;fr;de is not allowed, it
>> won't be possible to set this tag for Belgium. I did set it on the
>> regions/communities.
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>> 2018-05-08 22:31 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :
>>
>>> Daniel, I agree - it seems most of the low-zoom Moroccan names are in a
>>> triple-form,  and many local names are in a wild mix of french only and
>>> multi-lingual ones:   https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yE5 (thx trigpoint &
>>> FredrikLindseth on IRC!)  Do you want to change it, or should I?
>>>
>>> Also, there are still about 60 countries without a tag:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/y9382ewv
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Daniel Koć  wrote:
>>>
>>>> W dniu 08.05.2018 o 21:31, Yuri Astrakhan pisze:
>>>>
>>>> > This query shows a list of regions that have the new default_language
>>>> > tag (you can multisort column with shift or control clicking the
>>>> > headers).  http://tinyurl.com/yd6bx6s3
>>>>
>>>> What about places like Morocco? Shouldn't it be rather similar to
>>>> Belgium - "fr ber ar" (because the name is "Maroc ⵍⵎⵖⵔⵉⴱ المغرب") than
>>>> just "ar"?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Local language help

[Jo]

Since there is not 1 language for Belgium and nl;fr;de is not allowed, it
won't be possible to set this tag for Belgium. I did set it on the
regions/communities.

Polyglot

2018-05-08 22:31 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :

> Daniel, I agree - it seems most of the low-zoom Moroccan names are in a
> triple-form,  and many local names are in a wild mix of french only and
> multi-lingual ones:   https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/yE5 (thx trigpoint &
> FredrikLindseth on IRC!)  Do you want to change it, or should I?
>
> Also, there are still about 60 countries without a tag:
> http://tinyurl.com/y9382ewv
>
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Daniel Koć  wrote:
>
>> W dniu 08.05.2018 o 21:31, Yuri Astrakhan pisze:
>>
>> > This query shows a list of regions that have the new default_language
>> > tag (you can multisort column with shift or control clicking the
>> > headers).  http://tinyurl.com/yd6bx6s3
>>
>> What about places like Morocco? Shouldn't it be rather similar to
>> Belgium - "fr ber ar" (because the name is "Maroc ⵍⵎⵖⵔⵉⴱ المغرب") than
>> just "ar"?
>>
>> --
>> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and new Wikipedia map features

[Jo]

Japanese has 3 writing systems.

Jo

2018-05-04 1:10 GMT+02:00 Daniel Koć :

> W dniu 04.05.2018 o 00:33, Joe Matazzoni pisze:
>
> Here is the list of languages Wikimedia supports. https://en.
> wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1525471804237000&usg=AFQjCNHsOP6lQnhNIucbS2AyFY26AG7tiA>
>  .
> As to the toolchain, if you ask that question on the project page, some of
> our engineers will be able to respond.  Be sure to explain why you’re
> asking, so we can answer you fully.
>
>
> It's not exactly what interests me:
>
> a) do you want to support all these languages (not how many of them are
> there)?
>
> b) how many server resources do you need for rendering  languages that
> you want to support (not the software stack used)?
>
> Do you know it or should I ask the engineers anyway?
>
> That is a very interesting edge case we hadn’t thought of.  We’ll have to
> look into that one; our lead engineer just wrote a ticket to investigate:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193815
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193815&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1525472750803000&usg=AFQjCNEzVPXSLGmL0dxiGsN09aYPHA7_JA>.
>  I know about Serbian. What other languages do this?
>
>
> Belorusian has two writing systems (see http://openstreetmap.by for 4
> languages demo).
>
> Chineese has few different writing systems.
>
> Buginese can use Lontara or Latin script.
>
>
> There might be more of such cases.
>
> --
> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Diversity-talk] How do you mapping gender neutral toilets? What should the unisex tag mean?

[Jo]

What I see most often is a room with toilets for men, another room with
toilets for women and a toilet for people with disabilities, usually a
somewhat higher pot in a relatively big room with a larger door. The last
one is gender neutral, of course. I don't think anyone maps that
explicitly, as it goes without saying.

If there is only 1 toilet, wouldn't it always be gender neutral? Are we
soon going to find 4 different toilet doors in buildings, male, female,
disabled and "something else"?

Jo

2018-04-26 1:00 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Alvarez :

> 2018-04-25 19:21 GMT-03:00 Tobias Knerr :
> > On 25.04.2018 15:23, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> >> Unisex=yes is defined as a shortcut for male=yes + female=yes
> >
> > This may be a stupid question, but where are you all getting this
> > definition from?
> >
> > I assumed the key already had the meaning that Rory is suggesting here.
> > And at least on the Key:unisex and Tag:amenity=toilet wiki pages, I see
> > nothing to contradict that.
> >
> > The former page mentions that the tag implies male=yes and female=yes,
> > but "implies" should not be confused with "is equivalent to".
>
> If most existing data is using unisex to mean "there are both male and
> female toilets", then it doesn't matter one bit what the wiki says.
> Reusing the tag to mean "there are gender-neutral toilets" will cause
> confusion with that existing data.
>
> --
> Nicolás
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Name:* tags in the local language

[Jo]

2018-04-25 8:21 GMT+02:00 Mateusz Konieczny :

>
> 24. Apr 2018 21:29 by rich...@systemed.net:
>
> If I read Frederik's proposal right, the language=en tag would be placed on
> the object with the name tag
>
>
> Interesting idea, I like it. Is there already a page on the OSM wiki
> describing this proposal?
>
Hi Mateusz,

There is this proposal:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
Language_information_for_name

Apparently it failed.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Name:* tags in the local language

[Jo]

I thought we were already indicating which language name is in, with the
name:language=:iso tag?

Hmm, apparently not:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Language_information_for_name

Polyglot

2018-04-24 21:29 GMT+02:00 Richard Fairhurst :

> Paul Norman wrote:
> > If there's agreement that there is a problem here, I could look
> > at preparing a mechanical edit or MapRoulette challenge to add
> > name:* tags, e.g. adding name:en to objects in the US with
> > other name:* tags, and adding name:zh in China. As an
> > estimate, this would be 115k changes in China, touching 28%
> > of roads there.
>
> This is pretty fragile too, though. Two minutes after the mechanical edit,
> a
> newbie will come along and change the name= tag on a random American road
> from MLK Boulevard to Martin Luther King Boulevard, without knowing they
> now
> have to change the name:en= tag as well. Bang, inconsistent data. Fast
> forward two years and a bunch of history-losing way splits, and it's no
> longer clear which is the accurate street name and which is the original,
> mistaken TIGER-imported one.
>
> In theory you could bake support for this into editing software (at the
> expense of complicating the interface), but even if JOSM, iD, Vespucci and
> P2 all add support, the name= tag is probably the most likely to be changed
> by minority editors (e.g. mobile or 'quick fix' apps) and it's unlikely
> they'll all add the same logic.
>
> Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> > This language=en tag would be placed on a administrative
> > relation, right?
>
> If I read Frederik's proposal right, the language=en tag would be placed on
> the object with the name tag, though putting it on admin relations is an
> interesting idea.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria

[Jo]

derbies -> debris

Oleksiy's attention was drawn to that airport because of the tragic
fatality. He noticed the tower was not mapped, so he mapped it.

Cheers,

Jo

2018-04-11 8:17 GMT+02:00 Milo van der Linden :

> Dear Armstrong, please be aware that Oleksiy is no native english speaker.
> In his culture and language that is probably not what he is saying.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Milo van der Linden
>
> On April 11, 2018 3:21:17 AM GMT+02:00, "Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com"
>  wrote:
>
>> Are you saying you think an aviation accident could have been avoided if OSM 
>> data was better? I've been an air traffic controller for 38 years. Aviation 
>> hazards, such as towers at airports, are well charted on navigational charts 
>> and airport diagrams which pilots are required to use. A pilot would never 
>> use OSM as a means of avoiding ground hazards at an airport. Besides, this 
>> particular accident happened at 10:00 A.M. local time, meaning it was 
>> daylight. The vast majority of aviation accidents are the result of pilot 
>> error. If a helicopter pilot allows his rotor blades to collide with a 
>> clearly visible object, that is negligence on the captain's part.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>>> From: Oleksiy Muzalyev 
>>> Sent: Apr 10, 2018 3:44 PM
>>> To: Talk Openstreetmap 
>>> Subject: [OSM-talk] today's tragic helicopter accident in Bavaria
>>>
>>> Good evening,
>>>
>>> There was an helicopter accident at the airport Flugplatz
>>> Haßfurt-Schweinfurt. One man from the ground staff was killed by derbies
>>> when helicopter's propeller blades touched the control tower.
>>>
>>> On the news video [1] and on the aerial image of the airport [2] it is
>>> clearly visible that the tower building is not in the same row with
>>> other buildings, it is a bit outstanding.
>>>
>>> This tower was not mapped neither on the Google maps, nor on the OSM. I
>>> mapped it by now on the OSM:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.01720/10.52705 with the tag:
>>> tower:type=aircraft_control, which has got a nice map icon.
>>>
>>> In general, towers, not only aircraft_control, but also communication,
>>> and others, are well visible even from far away, and could serve as good
>>> landmarks. That is why it makes sense to map towers.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://rtlnext.rtl.de/cms/bundeswehr-hubschrauber-rammt-tower-flughafenmitarbeiter-von-truemmern-erschlagen-4148088.html
>>>
>>> [2]
>>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt-Schweinfurt#/media/File:Flugplatz_Ha%C3%9Ffurt_Schweinfurt.jpg
>>>
>>> With best regards,
>>>
>>> Oleksiy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
> --
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn mobiel. Fouten voorbehouden.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Serious JOSM performance degradation

[Jo]

It has something to do with the difference between 10**3 and 2**10

2017-11-11 23:21 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> >but it is not widely acknowledged within the industry or media.
>
> That probably explains why in fifty years of working with computers I
> hadn't come across the term.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11 Nov 2017 5:03 pm, "Daniel Koć"  wrote:
>
>> W dniu 11.11.2017 o 22:55, john whelan pisze:
>>
>> >17MiB
>>
>> Interesting file size.  What is a MiB?
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mebibyte
>>
>> --
>> "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Serious JOSM performance degradation

[Jo]

When working with public transport, the PT_Assistant plugin might be
interesting for you. On the other hand, it might cause additional overhead.

Jo

2017-11-11 22:23 GMT+01:00 Safwat Halaby :

> I don't know what these are.
>
> The test described below was done without plugins, by the way.
>
> On Sat, 2017-11-11 at 22:14 +0100, Jo wrote:
> > Did you start using PT_Assistant? Or a MapCSS style dedicated to PT?
> >
> > Polyglot
> >
> > 2017-11-11 22:10 GMT+01:00 john whelan :
> >
> > > If you give it more memory sometimes that compensates on the CPU
> > > side by
> > > not requiring so much disk reading and writing.  Also there are
> > > almost
> > > certainly internal tables which work better in memory.  JAVA is a
> > > strange
> > > world of its own and with so many contributors and plugins I'm not
> > > sure
> > > anyone has a clear idea of exactly how JOSM works with in it.
> > >
> > > Not guaranteed but worth a try.
> > >
> > > Cheerio John
> > >
> > > On 11 November 2017 at 16:03, Safwat Halaby 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > More details:
> > > >
> > > > JOSM 12712 has no issues.
> > > > Latest JOSM 13053 has issues.
> > > > Not sure how to download the intermediate version (12921).
> > > > It's a CPU starvation issue and not a memory overuse issue. (Core
> > > > at
> > > > 100% for 10-30 seconds).
> > > >
> > > > Test case:
> > > >
> > > > Open up the attached file, try editing the ref or name of a stop.
> > > >
> > > > 12712 works flawlessly.
> > > > 13053 hangs for 10-30 seconds.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > talk mailing list
> > > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > >
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Serious JOSM performance degradation

[Jo]

Did you start using PT_Assistant? Or a MapCSS style dedicated to PT?

Polyglot

2017-11-11 22:10 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> If you give it more memory sometimes that compensates on the CPU side by
> not requiring so much disk reading and writing.  Also there are almost
> certainly internal tables which work better in memory.  JAVA is a strange
> world of its own and with so many contributors and plugins I'm not sure
> anyone has a clear idea of exactly how JOSM works with in it.
>
> Not guaranteed but worth a try.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11 November 2017 at 16:03, Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>
>> More details:
>>
>> JOSM 12712 has no issues.
>> Latest JOSM 13053 has issues.
>> Not sure how to download the intermediate version (12921).
>> It's a CPU starvation issue and not a memory overuse issue. (Core at
>> 100% for 10-30 seconds).
>>
>> Test case:
>>
>> Open up the attached file, try editing the ref or name of a stop.
>>
>> 12712 works flawlessly.
>> 13053 hangs for 10-30 seconds.
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Odd mapping in Atar Mauritania

[Jo]

What you can also do is map 1 new building properly and then use replace
geometry, if history seems important enough to preserve.

Polyglot

2017-11-08 18:47 GMT+01:00 Andy Townsend :

> On 08/11/2017 17:40, john whelan wrote:
>
>> ... and to be honest how does one correct this stuff?  Move the points so
>> only one building is mapped?  Delete and redraw would be faster but then
>> you lose the history.
>>
>
> There are lots of examples in OSM of things being mapped "roughly" first
> and then having more detail added to them later.  I'd re-use the nodes that
> you can that define corners of buildings but not get too worried about
> history.  This is certainly how the centre of London got mapped, and many
> other places too I suspect.
>
> Best Regards,
> Andy
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Jo]

You can also use OSM inspector to find untagged ways:

http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=tagging&lon=-1.25144&lat=5.12425&zoom=13&opacity=0.63&overlays=ways_without_tags

and it's of course the better option instead of adding load to Overpass API.

Polyglot

2017-10-30 2:47 GMT+01:00 Jo :

> Untagged ways in a bbox:
>
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/sFU
>
> way({{bbox}})(if:count_tags()==0)->.w1;
> rel(bw.w1);way(r)->.w2;
> (.w1; - .w2;);
> (._; >;);
> out meta;
>
> Michael beat me to the answer for the other query. Way too many comes near
> as an answer.
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2017-10-30 2:01 GMT+01:00 john whelan :
>
>> Many of the untagged ways are from JOSM and that warns before uploading
>> as well.
>>
>> Out of curiosity does any one have a count of the number of untagged ways
>> and area=yes in the database?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> On 29 Oct 2017 8:53 pm, "Bryan Housel"  wrote:
>>
>>> Haha I promise I won’t be offended.  I welcome the criticism - this is
>>> part of working on something that matters to a lot of people.
>>>
>>> Anyway, iD already does train the user in the walkthrough how to assign
>>> tags, and iD does warn the user on the save screen if they are uploading
>>> untagged features.
>>>
>>> So, what would you prefer iD do.. Just not upload untagged things?  We
>>> could do this, and I don’t have any strong opinion one way or another.
>>>
>>> In the past, the thinking has been that it’s better to accept an
>>> imperfect contribution than to turn away an imperfect contributor.   The
>>> map is used for a lot of things these days - so maybe we should rethink
>>> this as a community how we handle obviously bad edits.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Jo  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, it's amazing that after all these years of reporting it, that BUG
>>> in iD still hasn't been resolved. But don't dare to complain, we might
>>> offend Bryan.
>>>
>>> Polyglot
>>>
>>> 2017-10-29 23:47 GMT+01:00 Mark Wagner :
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:15:18 +0200
>>>> Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > - Adding closed ways with area=yes instead of building=yes, or with no
>>>> > tags at all
>>>>
>>>> A closed way with "area=yes" is a *very* common newbie mistake with iD:
>>>> the user traced an area, then forgot to tag it, or didn't realize they
>>>> needed to apply additional tags.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Jo]

Untagged ways in a bbox:

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/sFU

way({{bbox}})(if:count_tags()==0)->.w1;
rel(bw.w1);way(r)->.w2;
(.w1; - .w2;);
(._; >;);
out meta;

Michael beat me to the answer for the other query. Way too many comes near
as an answer.

Jo


2017-10-30 2:01 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> Many of the untagged ways are from JOSM and that warns before uploading as
> well.
>
> Out of curiosity does any one have a count of the number of untagged ways
> and area=yes in the database?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 29 Oct 2017 8:53 pm, "Bryan Housel"  wrote:
>
>> Haha I promise I won’t be offended.  I welcome the criticism - this is
>> part of working on something that matters to a lot of people.
>>
>> Anyway, iD already does train the user in the walkthrough how to assign
>> tags, and iD does warn the user on the save screen if they are uploading
>> untagged features.
>>
>> So, what would you prefer iD do.. Just not upload untagged things?  We
>> could do this, and I don’t have any strong opinion one way or another.
>>
>> In the past, the thinking has been that it’s better to accept an
>> imperfect contribution than to turn away an imperfect contributor.   The
>> map is used for a lot of things these days - so maybe we should rethink
>> this as a community how we handle obviously bad edits.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it's amazing that after all these years of reporting it, that BUG in
>> iD still hasn't been resolved. But don't dare to complain, we might offend
>> Bryan.
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>> 2017-10-29 23:47 GMT+01:00 Mark Wagner :
>>
>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:15:18 +0200
>>> Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>>>
>>> > - Adding closed ways with area=yes instead of building=yes, or with no
>>> > tags at all
>>>
>>> A closed way with "area=yes" is a *very* common newbie mistake with iD:
>>> the user traced an area, then forgot to tag it, or didn't realize they
>>> needed to apply additional tags.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Jo]

Next to the buttons for point, line and area, add a button to add
rectangular buildings. Let user click 3 times instead of 5 and tag it as
building=yes.

Polyglot

2017-10-30 1:50 GMT+01:00 Bryan Housel :

> Haha I promise I won’t be offended.  I welcome the criticism - this is
> part of working on something that matters to a lot of people.
>
> Anyway, iD already does train the user in the walkthrough how to assign
> tags, and iD does warn the user on the save screen if they are uploading
> untagged features.
>
> So, what would you prefer iD do.. Just not upload untagged things?  We
> could do this, and I don’t have any strong opinion one way or another.
>
> In the past, the thinking has been that it’s better to accept an imperfect
> contribution than to turn away an imperfect contributor.   The map is used
> for a lot of things these days - so maybe we should rethink this as a
> community how we handle obviously bad edits.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2017, at 7:23 PM, Jo  wrote:
>
> Yes, it's amazing that after all these years of reporting it, that BUG in
> iD still hasn't been resolved. But don't dare to complain, we might offend
> Bryan.
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2017-10-29 23:47 GMT+01:00 Mark Wagner :
>
>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:15:18 +0200
>> Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>>
>> > - Adding closed ways with area=yes instead of building=yes, or with no
>> > tags at all
>>
>> A closed way with "area=yes" is a *very* common newbie mistake with iD:
>> the user traced an area, then forgot to tag it, or didn't realize they
>> needed to apply additional tags.
>>
>> --
>> Mark
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Sudden influx of bad HOTosm edits in West Bank

[Jo]

Yes, it's amazing that after all these years of reporting it, that BUG in
iD still hasn't been resolved. But don't dare to complain, we might offend
Bryan.

Polyglot

2017-10-29 23:47 GMT+01:00 Mark Wagner :

> On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:15:18 +0200
> Safwat Halaby  wrote:
>
> > - Adding closed ways with area=yes instead of building=yes, or with no
> > tags at all
>
> A closed way with "area=yes" is a *very* common newbie mistake with iD:
> the user traced an area, then forgot to tag it, or didn't realize they
> needed to apply additional tags.
>
> --
> Mark
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] New OSM Quick-Fix service

[Jo]

If there would be real problems with autofixes in JOSM, it's easy to report
those as a bugs or enhancement requests. JOSM's issue tracker may be
antiquated, but it does work and JOSM's developers are very responsive.

If JOSM users who apply these auto fixes would worsen the data, then they
would get remarks through their changeset messages. I'm convinced that if
there are real problems on that side, we would already know about them and
they would be fixed very fast. Most likely by disabling the fix button for
that particular validator warning.

So if you find actual issues, please report them.

Polyglot

2017-10-17 9:50 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :

> Well, you kind of can fix one with the other - by introducing a better
> tool and disabling some of the autofixes in JOSM (very easy to do).  A more
> complex approach would clearly require a separate topic(s) and a
> substantial dev involvement.
>
> P.S. No, https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ doesn't have any real
> data (it shows maps from live servers, but editing shows just a few
> objects).
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 3:36 AM, Tobias Zwick  wrote:
>
>> I get your point, especially regarding the appliance of the JOSM
>> fix-button as a "by-the-way" fixing.
>>
>> Though, you can't fix possible issues with of one tool by introducing
>> another tool. People will not stop using (that feature of) JOSM. That is
>> why I think, if you think you detected a problematic issue there in that
>> editor, it should be discussed in a separate topic.
>>
>> On 17/10/2017 00:57, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
>> > Michael, I can only judge by my own experience adding validation autofix
>> > rules - I added a number of Wikipedia tag auto cleanups to JOSM, and
>> > they were reviewed by one or two JOSM developers and merged, probably
>> > because they were deemed benign.  I don't know about the other rules,
>> > but I suspect many of them also went this route.  Should have they been
>> > discussed more widely? I don't know, but that question is complicated,
>> > just like "what is a local community?" question. What a few devs may see
>> > as benign, others may say needs a discussion, right?
>> >
>> > Mass editing is a different matter.  We consider mass editing when one
>> > person goes out to fix something everywhere in the world.  But when we
>> > provide a tool that automatically fixes something that you are looking
>> > at, we don't view it as such.  Or at least we don't view it when it
>> > happens as part of JOSM, but we do when it happens in my new tool. Of
>> > course there is an important difference - JOSM doesn't guide you towards
>> > those cases.
>> >
>> > I think massive "by-the-way" fixing is far worse than the targeted fix
>> > of a single issue.
>> >
>> > When you want to fix a single issue in many places, you become a subject
>> > matter expert.  You know all about that change, how it interacts with
>> > other tags, what to watch out for, how to handle bad values, etc.  For
>> > example, when fixing wikipedia tags, you would see the types of mistakes
>> > people make, wrong prefixes people use, incorrect url encodings, hash
>> > tags in urls, incorrect multiple values, ... .When you simply click
>> > "fix" because JOSM validator tells you it can fix it automatically, you
>> > don't have that knowledge, so it effectively becomes a distributed
>> > mechanical edit without the "reject" capability.  My tool tries to
>> > address this - to build domain experts in a narrow field, and let those
>> > experts review changes one by one. I do not discount the value of local
>> > knowledge, but it is not a panacea - you must be both to make
>> > intelligent choices, and in some cases, the domain knowledge is more
>> > important than the knowledge of a specific locale.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 4:00 PM, Michael Reichert
>> > mailto:osm...@michreichert.de>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Yuri,
>> >
>> > Am 16.10.2017 um 16:02 schrieb Yuri Astrakhan:
>> > > Rory, most of those queries were copied from the current JOSM
>> validator
>> > > autofixes.  I don't think they were discussed, but they might
>> have been
>> > > mass applied without much thought by all sorts of editors.
>> >
>> > Could you please give examples for (a) the mass appliance of these
>> rules
>> > and (b) rules which have not been discussed but should have been
>> > discussed?
>> > > There are two ways to use the tool - you can write your own
>> query, run it,
>> > > and fix whatever it is you want to fix. That's the power user
>> mode -
>> > > anything goes, no different from JOSM or Level0. And there is
>> another one -
>> > > where you go to osm wiki, read the instructions, find the task
>> you may want
>> > > to work on, and go at it.   The community reviews wiki content,
>> tags
>> > > different pages with different explanation or warning boxes, etc.
>> The
>> > > discussion could still be on the forum, or here, or in IRC, 
>> >
>> > J

Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Jo]

True indeed. What this means, is that there can be a 'mismatch' between the
Wikipedia tag and the Wikidata tag, if the Wikidata tag is more specific
than what Wikipedia wants to create pages for.

It's normal that this happens, as both projects have a different notion of
notability. Aldi Nord and Aldi Süd will definitely not be the only cases of
this. In fact I would expect this to happen very often.

At least to me it happens quite a lot that I want to create an article on
Wikpedia, but the powers that be don't consider the subject notable.

Often this is a person with a street named after him or her. Or a bus line.
But it could be a single statue in a park, or a part of a collection in a
museum. So there will be many things we map that will have Wikidata items,
but not Wikipedia articles. And some where our information is more specific
that what WP has. Wikidata is actually an opendata project that stands
closer to OSM than WP, or it certainly can be.

Polyglot

2017-10-06 10:18 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> 2017-10-06 10:10 GMT+02:00 Jo :
>
>> What I don't understand is the problems people seem to have with
>> wikidata. If an existing wikidata entry doesn't align with what we mapped,
>> then create a new wikidata entry that does and link it to the existing
>> entries.
>>
>
>
> it's actually not that easy. I tried to do this and gave up (in the
> infamous ALDI case). Andy Mabbett had created 1 new "sub-entity" for each
> of the 2 enterprises which together are described in the wikipedia article,
> but you cannot add the wikipedia article to the new wikidata object without
> removing it from the other wikidata object (for both). As the wikidata
> object that covers both enterprises is the best fit for the WP article, I
> decided to keep the Wikipedia article linked to this, but then it didn't
> make sense to use the more precise wikidata object as reference in OSM as
> it hadn't any wikipedia article linked to it.
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] A thought on bot edits

[Jo]

Or a bot=https://fancyurl.iou/lawyeredcontract.json

to clearly define what the bot can and cannot do?

Personally I think we need all the help we can get from automation, but it
needs to remain 'overseen' by an actual mapper.

That's why I like the todo list plugin in JOSM a lot. And why I try to help
with developing tools to find errors and do trivial fixes. Especially
relations are relatively brittle in the OSM world.

So I understand the resistance against Yuri's automated handling of
wikidata tags. What he should do, is make his suggestions for improvement
available through our validation tools and then have mappers process them.

What I don't understand is the problems people seem to have with wikidata.
If an existing wikidata entry doesn't align with what we mapped, then
create a new wikidata entry that does and link it to the existing entries.

You could argue that's not strictly mapping anymore, but it does enhance
open data as a whole. So I think it is worthwhile to do it.

If it were possible to link from Wikidata to OSM, I'm sure it would be done
that way, but since there are no stable ids on our side, tags are the only
way to do it.

In JOSM it's possible to see which labels are behind the numbers. It should
be trivial to do so in Id as well. And why not on the standard rendering
too?

Polyglot

2017-10-06 9:45 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 6. Oct 2017, at 06:02, Yves  wrote:
> >
> > @JB, I understood the bot=no tag like the add=no sticker on your
> physical mailbox
>
>
> yes, just like every active mapper having  tens of thousands of mailboxes
> to add stickers to. What about an opt in? Add a bot=yes if you want your
> edits modified by bots...
>
> cheers,
> Martin
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Links from wiki* back into OSM

[Jo]

Here is an entry I added to Wikidata:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q37873776

I tried to create a Wikipedia article for it, but it got shot down
immediately. Wikipedia doesn't like companies, even if they do provide
public transport services and even if it's a red link in another article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dakar_Dem_Dikk_Workers_Democratic_Union&diff=797050840&oldid=411077118

I don't expect the wikidata entry to be removed. It conforms to their
inclusion rule 2. If they do remove it for some unfathomable reason, our
links will indeed go stale. That's too bad.

Polyglot


2017-09-28 12:53 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> 2017-09-28 12:07 GMT+02:00 Jo :
>
>> My experience is that adding something we map (or refer to like the name
>> of a mayor) to Wikipedia is absurdly hard to accomplish. Adding it to
>> Wikidata is trivially easy in comparison. So the inclusion rules for
>> Wikipedia and Wikidata are very different too. This also means that not
>> every entry present in Wikidata will have a Wikipedia article. It might
>> have an article in one of the other Wikimedia projects, or it might only
>> exist in other projects like OpenStreetMap. I added thousands of schools in
>> Uganda to Wikidata, if you want an example.
>>
>
>
>
> The criteria for inclusion in wikidata are here:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability
>
> Basically the object has to meet at least one of these requirements:
>
> 1. link to an object in a wikimedia project
> 2. refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material
> entity
> 3. It fulfills some structural need, for example: it is needed to make
> statements made in other items more useful.
>
>
> The fact that nobody has yet removed what you have added doesn't mean it
> won't be removed in the future (similarly to how wikipedia articles I had
> linked from osm have been removed after many years), e.g. a (leftist)
> comunity centre was dismissed, in a second attempt, as "localism", "not
> known to the major part of the population", the articles in national
> newspapers about it dismissed as "not relevant" (or "could go into
> wikinews"). There was a first attempt to delete the page which didn't pass,
> so the deletionists tried again until they succeeded:
> https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Speciale:Registri
> &page=CSOA_La_Strada
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Links from wiki* back into OSM

[Jo]

My experience is that adding something we map (or refer to like the name of
a mayor) to Wikipedia is absurdly hard to accomplish. Adding it to Wikidata
is trivially easy in comparison. So the inclusion rules for Wikipedia and
Wikidata are very different too. This also means that not every entry
present in Wikidata will have a Wikipedia article. It might have an article
in one of the other Wikimedia projects, or it might only exist in other
projects like OpenStreetMap. I added thousands of schools in Uganda to
Wikidata, if you want an example.

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23742566

I also found way to refer back to OpenStreetMap through the reference url
property of the coordinate location. License wise this shouldn't be a
problem, as I helped out with the import of those schools into OSM. It
might be trickier to do this for objects that only exist in OSM, due to the
difference in license between both projects.


Polyglot

2017-09-28 11:55 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :

> On 28/09/2017 10:36, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>> Andy are you now saying that it is OK to have 1 wikidata tag on each
>> street, so someone can create an external list of streets with
>> Wikidata ids to represent some kind of collection (like "all streets
>> named after Leuven") ?
>>
> Firstly I'm not saying "what is or is not OK" - that's essentially the
> point of this discussion, to find out what people do think.
>
> What I'm saying is that the expression of that sort of relationship
> possibly doesn't belong in OSM itself (because it's not really
> on-the-ground verifiable, or at least in many cases it won't be).
>
> If a street passed whatever tests wikipedia impose to have a wikipedia
> entry, and by inference a wikidata one (wikidata items essentially being
> all created from wikipedia, with links added later) then yes, by all means
> add a wikipedia/wikidata link to the OSM object, then add your "etymology"
> link within wikidata.
>
> Obviously wikipedia/wikidata's rules for inclusion are very different to
> ours (in some cases the opposite - wikipedia says "no original research -
> please copy from some other source").  There are plenty of examples of
> things that people think should be in wikipedia and aren't, and also things
> that shouldn't be in wikipedia/wikidata (because they don't exist) and are.
>
> Best Regards,
> Andy
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Overlapping brands (was "Fixing wiki* -> brand:wiki*")

[Jo]

 If we would have stable ids, then this 'problem' could be resolved by
adding the foreign keys to our objects to Wikidata, which is their normal
way of operating.

It took me a few messages to explain to the Wikidata contributors that we
don't have stable ids and that the best way forward was to add links to
Wikidata on our side.

Are you all saying this was incorrect? Do you have a better solution?
Stating that foreign keys shouldn't be in OSM at all is not very helpful.

Some examples of what can be achieved with references made to wikidata:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuven#External_links
I created some lua code, which generates the following Overpass Query:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/s1Z

All OSM objects with a name (in several languages) referring to a city.
More zoomed in:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/s20

I did the same for some persons. Of course it took me a while to filter
(manually) the OSM objects to know for which ones the
name:etymology:wikidata key was correct.

Some referred to Leuvenheim for example. It is not trivial to find all
these objects, if the reference to wikidata would be missing in our data.

The same goes for names of kings and queens as their names got 'recycled' a
lot. Princes and princesses named after their grandparents.

Anyway, I think a case can be made for including references to wikidata in
OSM and as coverage becomes more and more complete, more interesting
queries become a possibility. Of course just like constant improvements
need to be made to the geographic component of our data, the meta data also
needs maintenance. Some will say it's futile, others will say it's
interesting to create these sorts of links.

Polyglot

2017-09-28 1:36 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :

> On 27/09/2017 19:47, Marc Gemis wrote:
>
>>
>> Is "the same geographical area" relevant ? Why should a data consumer
>> use a separate datebase to identify the brand of an item ?
>>
>
> Simply because some people had suggested that "brand:wikidata" was
> unnecessary because you could always work out what brand a name was by
> location, and some people had suggested that it was necessary because you
> couldn't - it was just an attempt to find a concrete example; not an
> attempt to prove a point either way.
>
> Of course this is unrelated to whether or not wikidata/wikipedia/any other
> foreign key belongs in OSM (as discussed at length elsewhere).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading Version 3 of all bus stops in a country

[Jo]

If there is a conflict regarding position or tags, they should be resolved
by a human mapper. If I were to apply the newer is better approach, we
would constantly be reverting back to the positions the operators think
their stops are at.

It's important to respect the mappers work, because without mappers OSM
quickly dies off.

It might be complex to put such a solution in place, but it should be
obvious that if data flows in 2 directions, too much simplification doesn't
work.

Jo

2017-09-27 10:46 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

> On Wed, 2017-09-27 at 09:12 +0200, Jo wrote:
> > Deleting data on OpenStreetMap and replacing it by imported data is
> > obviously never the acceptable approach.
> >
> > What I don't understand is why you don't create something that
> > compares the
> > latest version of all the bus stops in OSM with the latest version of
> > the
> > GTFS data from upstream.
> >
> > Why compare with an inbetween version?
>
> I'm taking a "Newer is better" approach for conflict resolution.
>
> Let's say a user made a 2015 edit for a coordinate (We'll call this
> version X). And your 2017 database has a different coordinate (We'll
> call this version Y). How do you determine which coordinate to keep?
>
> If you had a 2012 database that would be easy.
>
> Case 1:
> 2012 database: Y
> 2015 user edit: X
> 2017 database: Y
>
> This means the Y has not been updated since 2012. Newer is better, so
> trust the user edit and set the coordinates to X.
>
> Case 2:
> 2012 database: T
> 2015 user edit: X
> 2017 database: Y
>
> This means Y is the newest value, and we should override the user edit.
>
> Without two database, we'd have to guess or resort to manual user
> intervention via fancy web services.
>
>
> > What I think is needed is a (web) service that stands between the
> > operator
> > data, be it GTFS or DB dumps and OpenStreetMap where comparison is
> > made and
> > which can be used by mappers to either improve OSM, or to send
> > feedback to
> > the operators that there are issues with the data they provide. Or
> > where
> > the operators can request flagged stops in bulk.
> >
>
> I am a huge advocate of simplicity. In my humble opinion, web services
> and SQL databases are overkill for what I'm trying to do. Your project
> spans dozens of files while mine is a single .js file for the JOSM
> scripting plugin, which reads two textual stops.txt files from the old
> and the newer GTFS databases.
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading Version 3 of all bus stops in a country

[Jo]

2017-09-27 8:30 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

> On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 11:46 +0200, Jo wrote:
>
> > Then load that in PostGIS and create scripts to read GTFS into
> > PostGIS.
> >
> > Then compare the data in the DB and produce output and ideally a UI.
> >
> > I started doing something like that here:
> >
> > https://github.com/osmbe/public_transport
> >
> > Let me know if you see ways of working on that or another way to
> > tackle the
> > problem together.
> >
> > Jo
>
> I will check the project out. Thanks for the link. Would you mind
> explaining what it is capable of? The readme is not so descriptive.
>

For the time being not so much yet. Before the summer I made some progress
migrating scripts I had created for an import of Belgian bus stops and
lines, but during the summer I got a bit 'distracted' by mentoring the
PT_Assistant plugin.

The basic idea is to take operator data, either GTFS or a dump of their
internal DB.

Then compare all the stops regarding tags and position. For the stops the
other tables routes, trips and segments, can be used to calculate route_ref.

Then create OSM route relations based on their data and compare to what is
present in OSM.

This is where it becomes trickier to keep track of their versions and ours,
especially if the intent is to both give feedback to the operators and have
a platform showing mappers which stops, routes and route_masters are in
need of attention.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading Version 3 of all bus stops in a country

[Jo]

Deleting data on OpenStreetMap and replacing it by imported data is
obviously never the acceptable approach.

What I don't understand is why you don't create something that compares the
latest version of all the bus stops in OSM with the latest version of the
GTFS data from upstream.

Why compare with an inbetween version?

What I think is needed is a (web) service that stands between the operator
data, be it GTFS or DB dumps and OpenStreetMap where comparison is made and
which can be used by mappers to either improve OSM, or to send feedback to
the operators that there are issues with the data they provide. Or where
the operators can request flagged stops in bulk.

The same goes for the lines (route_master) and the various itineraries
(route relations).

Polyglot

2017-09-27 7:42 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

> Hi John Whelan,
>
> As implied in the forum thread, not wanting to destroy user data is
> exactly why I'm building a relatively complex script. The naive
> approach is to destroy all-bus stops are re-import, everytime a GTFS
> update is released. But I don't want that.
>
> Instead of doing that, the script preserves all user-submitted data
> such as shelter, wheelchair, and GPS coordinate fixes and provides
> incremental updates rather than the destruction of all bus stops per
> import. The incremental updates do not destroy user changes. In order
> to achieve that, the older and the newer GTFS database need to be
> compared per update.
>
> Yesterday I didn't have the database which was used in the old 2012
> import, so I couldn't locally test-run my script. which is what lead to
> my original question in this thread. But now I managed to reverse-build
> the old GTFS database from version 3 of the bus stops in Israel by
> downloading the bus stops through the relevant changesets.
>
> Here's some of the discussion:
>
> >Here's a merging idea.
> >
> >Problem: Dealing with conflicts between mapper
> edits and gtfs data.
> >Solution: "The most recent version is the correct
> version" philosophy.
> >
> >- The first gtfs update would update everything.
> Conflicts are
> >  resolved by prioritizing the gtfs file's version. This
> is a
> >  "necessary evil" but is >only needed once.  (edit: I might be
> >
> able to mitigate this by tracing bus stop OSM history).
> >- Some time
> passes, and users update some of the bus stops.
> >- The ministry of
> transportation updates some bus stops in
> >  its database and publishes a
> new gtfs file.
> >- The next gtfs update would inspect the difference
> between
> >  the new gtfs file and the older gtfs file. Only bus stops
> >
> that have had their data (in >the gtfs file) changed since the
> >  last
> file are updated. So, conflicts are resolved by prioritizing
> >  the gtfs
> file version, but only for the bus stops that were changed
> >  by the
> ministry since the last update. The rest of the bus stops
> >  are left
> intact.
>
> (source: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=16738&p=3)
>
> Also, we know the data can be used in OSM.
>
> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=244096#p244096
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading Version 3 of all bus stops in a country

[Jo]

It is a bit odd that you are not interested in the latest versions of these
objects, but OK. (As long as you don't plan to use them for an updated
import to OSM, of course)

Overpass API also makes it possible to fetch data for a given point in time.

Jo

2017-09-26 13:31 GMT+02:00 Safwat Halaby :

> On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 12:15 +0100, Tom Hughes wrote:
> > On 26/09/17 11:41, Safwat Halaby wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2017-09-26 at 11:31 +0200, Michael Reichert wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Am 2017-09-26 um 09:19 schrieb SwiftFast:
> > > > > I need to download all version 3 bus stops in a country which
> > > > > has
> > > > > about
> > > > > 30,000 bus stops. Version 3 exists since a 2012 import. What's
> > > > > the
> > > > > recommended way to accomplish this? I have two ways in mind.
> > > >
> > > > Version 3 of what?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > >
> > >
> > > Version 3 of all Israeli bus stops that have
> > > "source=israel_gtfs_v1".
> > > See this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1802982884/history and
> > > look at "version #3".
> >
> > But how do you know it's version 3 you want for every one?
> >
> > It sounds like you're making an assumption that all these objects
> > have
> > only been edited in a particular way by some automated process and
> > that
> > nobody has ever touched one by hand and hence added an extra version.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
> V3 was an automatic import for all nodes. it was made pretty quickly
> after v1 and v2 and it's very unlikely someone edited during that time.
> But I solved my problems simply by fetching the responsible changeset.
> I was overcomplicating this problem. All I needed was:
>
> get https://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/14265835/download
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading Version 3 of all bus stops in a country

[Jo]

Hi Safwat,

Overpass API is definitely your friend. Version 3 doesn't mean much though.
Do you mean all bus stops with a public_transport tag?

I would go about it in a slightly different way and download everything
related to public transport, not just the stops using the query found on
this page:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/PT_Assistant/Mapping_Public_Transport_with_JOSM#Downloading_data

Then load that in PostGIS and create scripts to read GTFS into PostGIS.

Then compare the data in the DB and produce output and ideally a UI.

I started doing something like that here:

https://github.com/osmbe/public_transport

Let me know if you see ways of working on that or another way to tackle the
problem together.

Jo

2017-09-26 9:19 GMT+02:00 SwiftFast :

> I need to download all version 3 bus stops in a country which has about
> 30,000 bus stops. Version 3 exists since a 2012 import. What's the
> recommended way to accomplish this? I have two ways in mind.
>
> 1. Fetch all stops with Overpass API, then, for each
>stop id, fetch version 3 from the main API.
>- Pros: I already know how to do that
>- Cons: Potentially too much load on the OSM server.
>Will I be rate-limited?
>Requires some script writing which could take
>more time than the way below.
>
> 2. Download a history-supporting planet file,
>and extract the desired bus stops through Osmosis.
>- Pros: Less API load
>- Cons: I'm not sure what the proper Osmosis commands are,
>and if this  is a supported operation. Also, I need
>to download a big file (the oldest history supporting
>import is 40GB from 2013).
>
> 3. Other suggestions?
>
> Why I need this:
>
> I am creating a script[1] for incrementally updating GTFS imports.
> It'll initially be used in Israel but it can be adopted worldwide. We
> have an import from 2012 which was "dumped and forgotten" and is now
> very stale. I want to forever fix this.
>
> The ministry of transportation publishes new GTFS files daily. My
> script compares an older GTFS file with newer one, and only updates the
> bus stops that were changed/added/deleted. The idea is to feed it a
> newer GTFS database daily or weekly. However, I do not possess the file
> that was used in the 2012 import, so, in order to bootstrap the script,
> I need to recreate that file from the old OSM data.
>
> [1] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=16738&p=3
> (note: SwiftFast and SafwatHalaby are both me)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Jo]

Mi ankaŭ proponas ke ni uzos esperanto! :-)

2017-09-25 16:19 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :

> On 25/09/2017 14:53, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
>
>>
>> If not Latin, then why English? Why not French?
>>
>> Well _obviously_ the answer is Esperanto.  There are a few Esperanto
> enthusiasts adding names to OSM (see e.g. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.
> org/keys/name%3Aeo and https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/157076265 ).
> I'm surprised that one of them hasn't popped up in this thread already.
>
> While we're at it can we change the default tagging language to German so
> that we can be a bit more precise about everything?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy (not entirely seriously)
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Jo]

Vector based rendering is just around the corner, I keep hearing.

2017-09-25 12:39 GMT+02:00 James :

> That's why you could have text rendered via JavaScript and not in the JPG
> itself
>
> On Sep 25, 2017 6:37 AM, "Jo"  wrote:
>
>> 1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of languages in
>> existence... depending on who you ask, but even adding 500 extra layers is
>> not a practical endeavour.
>>
>> 2017-09-25 12:15 GMT+02:00 James :
>>
>>> I think Latin as default is disrespectful to areas like Japan which
>>> might not be able to read Latin letters as they have kana for non-japanese
>>> words. It's a bit biased to ask if Latin should be the default on a Latin
>>> based list(letters not language).I'm sure there would be a different
>>> opinion if you asked on talk-jp or any other list(non-latin)
>>>
>>> Ideally it should be a layer per language: English everywhere, Japanese
>>> everywhere, Arabic everywhere, etc etc
>>>
>>> On Sep 25, 2017 6:02 AM, "Oleksiy Muzalyev" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/24/2017 11:01 PM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [...]For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا
>>>>> for
>>>>> Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.
>>>>>
>>>>> The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
>>>>> (additionally) display labels in English (or in any case the
>>>>> Latin-alphabet). [...]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why not use the Latin language itself for an additional label to
>>>> non-Latin alphabet titles? It is readily available in Google translator and
>>>> also in Wikipedia. Here are these titles in Latin:
>>>>
>>>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechinum
>>>>
>>>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungaria
>>>>
>>>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritania
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Oleksiy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Jo]

1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of languages in
existence... depending on who you ask, but even adding 500 extra layers is
not a practical endeavour.

2017-09-25 12:15 GMT+02:00 James :

> I think Latin as default is disrespectful to areas like Japan which might
> not be able to read Latin letters as they have kana for non-japanese words.
> It's a bit biased to ask if Latin should be the default on a Latin based
> list(letters not language).I'm sure there would be a different opinion if
> you asked on talk-jp or any other list(non-latin)
>
> Ideally it should be a layer per language: English everywhere, Japanese
> everywhere, Arabic everywhere, etc etc
>
> On Sep 25, 2017 6:02 AM, "Oleksiy Muzalyev" 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/24/2017 11:01 PM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
>>
>>> [...]For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا for
>>> Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.
>>>
>>> The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
>>> (additionally) display labels in English (or in any case the
>>> Latin-alphabet). [...]
>>>
>>
>> Why not use the Latin language itself for an additional label to
>> non-Latin alphabet titles? It is readily available in Google translator and
>> also in Wikipedia. Here are these titles in Latin:
>>
>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechinum
>>
>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungaria
>>
>> https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritania
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Oleksiy
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Label language on the Default stylesheet

[Jo]

The purpose of the default rendering is to give feedback to mappers.
Preferably local mappers, so having the map rendered in local languages
shouldn't be a problem.

If you want to use OSM data as a tourist use OsmAND or MAPS.ME and set a
language of your choice.

If other projects need tiles for their own purposes/user base, they should
render them to their liking and make them available.

Jo

2017-09-25 7:56 GMT+02:00 Edoardo Yossef Marascalchi <
e.marascal...@gmail.com>:

> my 2 cents:
> having a 2 layers map, one with local languages rendered, the second with
> english ones when present as first choice, then local when not
>
> Il 25 set 2017 7:14 AM, "Yves"  ha scritto:
>
>> If the OSMF tile servers were to be used to provide webmaps for a vast
>> audience, I would understand double labeling in English.
>> That not the primary purpose, though.
>> Yves
>>
>> Le 24 septembre 2017 23:01:00 GMT+02:00, Matthijs Melissen <
>> i...@matthijsmelissen.nl> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
>>> the Default map on openstreetmap.org.
>>>
>>> This map (based on the openstreetmap-carto style) currently displays
>>> all labels in their native language (as defined in the 'name' tag).
>>> For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا for
>>> Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.
>>>
>>> The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
>>> (additionally) display labels in English (or in any case the
>>> Latin-alphabet). The people making these requests state that the map
>>> is currently not very usable for an international audience, as many
>>> people are not able to read labels in for example Arabic or Mandarin.
>>> Some areas where this problem is particularly visible:
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803#issuecomment-330782700
>>> A prominent case of such a request is from the Gnome Maps team, who
>>> decided not to use the Default style for this reason:
>>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764841#c35
>>>
>>> From an ideologic viewpoint, I am very much in favour of not giving
>>> preferential treatment to any particular language. Using the local
>>> language seems fair in this respect. On the other hand, from a
>>> pragmatic point of view I can also see that using English (in
>>> addition) would significantly increase the usefulness of the map to
>>> many people.
>>>
>>> I would be interested to know what others think about this. An option,
>>> for example, would be to display countries names, and perhaps the
>>> names of big cities, in English as well as in the local language.
>>>
>>> Note: making the map available in multiple language versions is
>>> something we like to do in the future, however, this requires quite
>>> significant technical changes. Therefore, this is out of scope for
>>> now.
>>>
>>> More information on this issue can be found on Github:
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/803
>>>
>>> I'm looking forward to your opinions.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Matthijs Melissen
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] WhatOSM, a guide for contribution tools

[Jo]

I don't really mind having Mapillary in there, but if you do, you'd have to
mention OpenStreetCam as well, of course.

When I go out to survey using making Mapillary pictures, it's true I'm not
adding data using Vespucci or Walking Papers, but I wouldn't do those
things anyway.

Making automated picture sequences doesn't really get in the way of what
I'm actuallly doing, cycling, or walking.

When couch mapping they are often really handy to have and work with, so I
definitely helps us. Aerial imagery is great, but even at high resolution
it's not possible to see every detail on it.

Jo

2017-09-22 11:57 GMT+02:00 Tobias Knerr :

> On 21.09.2017 19:45, PanierAvide wrote:
> > http://projets.pavie.info/whatosm/
>
> This may be controversial, but I don't think a guide for people
> considering to contribute to OSM should send them away to Mapillary.
> They aren't part of OSM proper and arguably compete with us for
> volunteer time. Mapillary let us use their images, of course, but they
> have that in common with a lot of other orgs that no one would mistake
> for being part of the OSM project.
>
> > It can be used by new contributors, but also more experimented ones, who
> > don't know what to do anymore in their neighbourhood.
>
> For new contributors, the recommendations feel a bit too focused on
> niche use cases, and not enough on core OSM. When people have a few
> hours or days to spare and want to contribute to OSM, then I would
> almost always recommend that they start mapping in their local area
> using iD or JOSM (depending on computer skills).
>
> Something else to consider is that "outside" and "remotely" does not
> cover the entire OSM experience. In fact, the traditional way to
> contribute is to collect data outside, and enter it back at home. Right
> now, that's not an option with your tool.
>
> Hope this mail doesn't come across as too negative! I mostly focussed on
> potential improvements rather than the things that worked fine for me
> (i.e. everything not mentioned here).
>
> Tobias
>
>
>  It might be
> > interested to show this to people when doing mapping parties. User
> > interface works as well on desktop as on smartphone.
> >
> > This project is open source and is available on this repository :
> >
> > https://framagit.org/PanierAvide/WhatOSM
> >
> > You can contribute to it by proposing tools which allow contributing
> > more or less directly to OpenStreetMap. Also, if you speak English +
> > another language, you can help translating the application :
> >
> > https://www.transifex.com/openlevelup/whatosm/
> >
> > If you have any ideas or suggestions, let me know :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Adrien.
> >
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM now supports OSM+Wikidata service

[Jo]

That is wonderful news! It will take a while before I get used to that
query language though.

Does it also work if an object has a semicolon separated list of wikidata
items in for example subject:wikidata? A statue with more than one person
in it, for example?

Polyglot

2017-09-18 7:28 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :

> The "not yet fully named" service is now accessible directly from JOSM -
> just like OT.  Simply install or update Wikipedia plugin, and it will show
> up in the download data screen (expert mode).
>
> Documentation:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata%2BOSM_
> SPARQL_query_service#Using_from_JOSM
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Name challenge - what to call the new OSM+Wikidata service?

[Jo]

SparklyMapData or SparklyDataMap

2017-09-17 23:46 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :

> One thing we should consider is the domain name.  I doubt we can afford
> woq.com :)
>
> These names were proposed
> woq   2
> wdoqs
> woqs
> q936
>
> And these proposed names have OSM in them, so likely are not good
> according to Legal
> wosm  2
> wikosm
> wdosm
> wikidosm
>
> (P.S. Sorry for double - hit send too fast before fixing the first list)
>
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 5:45 PM, Yuri Astrakhan 
> wrote:
>
>> One thing we should consider is the domain name.  I doubt we can afford
>> woq.com :)
>>
>> These names were proposed
>> woq   2
>> wdoqs
>> wdosm
>> woqs
>> q936
>>
>> And these proposed names have OSM in them, so likely are not good
>> according to Legal
>> wosm  2
>> wikosm
>> wikidosm
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>>
>>> I believe there is a slight misunderstanding, while remixing
>>> OpenStreetMap/OSM/etc in various ways may result in cutesy copycat domain
>>> names they simply do not jibe well with reality.
>>>
>>> Not only does every single one of them weaken the standing of the marks
>>> themselves and make is increasingly difficult to take action against
>>> misuse, they are further uncontrollable liabilities for the whole
>>> community. I gave the example of OpenWeatherMap, but there are others that
>>> would be really painful if they ended up in the hands of your fav giant
>>> tech corp.
>>>
>>> That said, I'm not sure why you believe the policy has broken something,
>>> with the exception of a few local chapters, to my knowledge, the OSMF has
>>> never granted a licence to anybody to use the marks in a domain name. As
>>> outlined in the FAQ we will be operating a grandfathering scheme to
>>> legalize such use after the fact so actually making such use legit for the
>>> first time.
>>>
>>> And yes: WoQ would be a wonderful name for Yuris service and shows that
>>> it is completely possible to break out of the old schema of simply copying
>>> OSM.
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>> Am 17.09.2017 um 15:57 schrieb Yves:
>>>
>>> So, no OpenSparqlMap, then? :(
>>> Sad, this policy definitely broke something.
>>> Yves
>>>
>>> Le 17 septembre 2017 12:58:12 GMT+02:00, Blake Girardot
>>>   a écrit :

 Hi,

 How does this relate to the new draft trademark policy?

 I can't tell from the draft policy, but I believe that OSM at least is
 a protected mark, not sure about osm.

 But I do think Simone Poole asked the community to stop naming things
 with osm trademarks in them or variations on openstreetmap phrase.

 Cheers
 blake

 On Sat, Sep 16, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Yuri Astrakhan  
  wrote:
>
>  The new service is getting more and more usage, but it lacks the most
>  important thing - a good name.  So far my two choices are:
>
>  * wikosm
>  * wikidosm
>
>  Suggestions?  Votes?  The service combines Wikidata and OpenStreetMap
>  databases, and uses SPARQL (query language) to search it, so might be 
> good
>  to reflect that in the name.
>
>  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata%2BOSM_SPARQL_query_service
>
>  P.S.  I know this is the hardest problem after off-by-one and caching...
>
> --
>
>  talk mailing list
>  talk@openstreetmap.org
>  https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk




>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing 
>>> listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Editing problem?

[Jo]

I guess in rural Africa those are where the zebras cross... :-)

2017-06-18 18:08 GMT+02:00 john whelan :

> When you mix new users with iD and OSM all sorts of strange things
> happen.  For example there seems to be a large number of Zebra pedestrian
> crossings in rural Africa so unfortunately I suspect its a finger problem.
> iD does a very good job of guiding people but its very difficult to make
> anything idiot proof, they keep evolving and finding new ways to cause
> chaos.
>
> I just correct the very obvious ones when I see them.  JOSM validation
> crossing highways is good for spotting them by the way.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 18 June 2017 at 11:31, David Earl  wrote:
>
>> Is there something people can do too easily and inadvertently in iD which
>> leads to a problem if they don't spot they've done it? Or maybe even a bug?
>>
>> In the last month I've found edits by two different accounts, both
>> editing in iD, where a node has ended up merged with another node, or
>> possibly a way re-connected to a different incorrect node, some hundreds of
>> metres away (in both cases the original location ended up eastwards, but
>> that's probably just coincidence). The visual result is a road or building
>> ends up with a long narrow spike in it.
>>
>> In both cases, from the changeset comments, it doesn't look like either
>> of them were even trying to edit the particular feature in question - they
>> were doing something quite unrelated.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is if there is perhaps some gesture, like panning the
>> map, which can end up dragging a node which dropped onto another node
>> connects them. If you're rapidly panning perhaps you may not notice you
>> picked up a node? Is this possible? Is there some other scenario that could
>> lead to this accidentally? I can understand one mistake, but two so very
>> similar accidents by different people looks suspicious.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Revisiting traffic control and traffic calming

[Jo]

2017-05-07 9:30 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson :

> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 2:25 AM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> What about a type=traffic_sign relation?
>>
>> Where traffic_sign could be stop, give_way, parking
>>
>
> I was thinking the typical highway=* tags for highway=stop,
> highway=traffic_signals and highway=give_way.
>
>
>> In case of a stop sign, we could include the sign on a node, role 'sign'.
>> The node of the intersection, maybe role 'to'. The way the vehicle is
>> approaching from, maybe role 'from'.
>>
>
> Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.
>
>
>> In case of parking it would make very clear on which ways there is
>> parking and we would have central place to keep track of the conditions
>> like "opening_hours" and tariffs, or specific requirements like permits.
>>
>
> Parking already has a very clear case of way tagging for this.
>

To map the effect on the road network, I agree. To relate the traffic signs
to those ways, we don't. I don't know if we'll be able to map all traffic
signs and include all these relations (and keep them up-to-date), but then
I also wasn't sure we´d be able to put entire countries on the map like we
did, only ust a few years ago. It would be good to have a well thought out
plan, so we can start doing it consistently.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Revisiting traffic control and traffic calming

[Jo]

What about a type=traffic_sign relation?

Where traffic_sign could be stop, give_way, parking.

We can put a traffic_sign tag on nodes, where they get the
country_code:specific_national_code like BE:C1. Several traffic signs can
have an effect on several ways and nodes of the road network, so we could
group them in such relations.

In case of a stop sign, we could include the sign on a node, role 'sign'.
The node of the intersection, maybe role 'to'. The way the vehicle is
approaching from, maybe role 'from'.

In case of parking it would make very clear on which ways there is parking
and we would have central place to keep track of the conditions like
"opening_hours" and tariffs, or specific requirements like permits.

Polyglot


2017-05-07 8:57 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson :

> I think it's time that we seriously reconsider how stop signs, yield signs
> and traffic calming devices are handled in all but the most simple (all
> approaches to the affected node apply) cases.  This largely after having a
> protracted discussion with one person about nodes lacking direction and
> this being a big factor in turn restrictions and enforcement being handled
> by relations already (and really, the entire reason relations were
> introduced in the first place).
>
> I'm thinking it's time to start mapping this similar to how we handle
> enforcement and turn restrictions, ie, with relations, for all but the
> simplest of cases, especially since the whole forward/backward direction=*
> thing is nonapplicable to nodes by design.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Coordinates in OSM. Really annoying

[Jo]

On the left side, go figure! Or is that the right side?

2017-04-22 20:21 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 22. Apr 2017, at 14:57, Oleksiy Muzalyev 
> wrote:
> >
> > But such a situation is the same everywhere.
>
>
> +1, there are even countries driving on the other side of the road than
> most of the others, willingly paying an extra for having manufactures
> producing vehicles with the steering where on the other side as well, just
> to name another example ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM help needed - settings lost

[Jo]

Hi Andy,

Your JOSM settings are stored here:

C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Roaming\JOSM\preferences.xml

Did you logon as another user?

Polyglot

2017-04-10 14:45 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett :

> I'm using JOSM 11639, under Windows 10, and all my settings seem to be
> missing - for example aerial imagery, remote control activation, and
> plugins.  My user name and password are remembered.
>
> Any tips for recovering them?
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] A tool for picking up settlements tagged as a single building?

[Jo]

JOSM comes with a measurement plugin :-)

I drew a square somewhere in Africa with sides of about 100m and the area
is about 1m2.

For giggles, I then grabbed it and dropped it in Europe. Now the
circumference is 255m, so one side 65m and the area became 4047 square
meters.

Cheers, and hurray for JOSM and its incredible functionality!

Polyglot

2017-03-26 1:51 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> I'll need to play around but by using building followed by remove addr,
> name etc I can start to pick them out.  What exactly is areasize measured
> in?How can I determine an areasize?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 25 March 2017 at 20:05, Jo  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> When I first saw your message, I looked into Overpass API, but no luck.
>> In JOSM areasize would definitely work. You'll have to find a sweetspot
>> around 100-
>>
>> so
>>
>> building areasize:100-
>>
>> or possibly 500 or 1000.
>>
>> Polyglot
>>
>> 2017-03-25 19:34 GMT+01:00 john whelan :
>>
>>> Probably what I'm after is something that I can load up a chunk of map
>>> at a time say a quarter of an African country from the daily dump in JOSM
>>> then a selection based on building=yes with a certain minimum size would
>>> areasize work for that?  Then I can use the todo list to check them one at
>>> a time.
>>>
>>> What sort of value would I drop into areasize?  Or could I get a sample
>>> size from i ?
>>>
>>> Thanks John
>>>
>>> On 25 March 2017 at 13:43, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> The OSM Changeset Analyzer let's select bbox and option parameters
>>>> including big building. To test if it provides too many positive answers.
>>>> There could be an other option for very big buildings??
>>>>
>>>> example with reason 34 Large buildings
>>>> http://osmcha.mapbox.com/?bbox=9.272%2C-13.496%2C43.901%2C6.
>>>> 315&is_suspect=False&is_whitelisted=True&checked=All&reasons=34
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *De :* john whelan 
>>>> *À :* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
>>>> *Cc :* "h...@openstreetmap.org" 
>>>> *Envoyé le :* samedi 25 mars 2017 13h28
>>>> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] A tool for picking up settlements tagged as a
>>>> single building?
>>>>
>>>> It's something I've noticed in Africa so its probably not putting new
>>>> mappers through a month's training first but many villages have been mapped
>>>> but tagged as a single building with building=yes.
>>>>
>>>> They aren't grouped together but rural Africa doesn't have that many
>>>> large foot print buildings so it should be possible to pick them out based
>>>> on location and size.
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts on how to pick them out?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks John
>>>> ___
>>>> talk mailing list
>>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> h...@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>>
>>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] A tool for picking up settlements tagged as a single building?

[Jo]

Hi John,

When I first saw your message, I looked into Overpass API, but no luck. In
JOSM areasize would definitely work. You'll have to find a sweetspot around
100-

so

building areasize:100-

or possibly 500 or 1000.

Polyglot

2017-03-25 19:34 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> Probably what I'm after is something that I can load up a chunk of map at
> a time say a quarter of an African country from the daily dump in JOSM then
> a selection based on building=yes with a certain minimum size would
> areasize work for that?  Then I can use the todo list to check them one at
> a time.
>
> What sort of value would I drop into areasize?  Or could I get a sample
> size from i ?
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 25 March 2017 at 13:43, Pierre Béland  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> The OSM Changeset Analyzer let's select bbox and option parameters
>> including big building. To test if it provides too many positive answers.
>> There could be an other option for very big buildings??
>>
>> example with reason 34 Large buildings
>> http://osmcha.mapbox.com/?bbox=9.272%2C-13.496%2C43.901%2C6.
>> 315&is_suspect=False&is_whitelisted=True&checked=All&reasons=34
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> --
>> *De :* john whelan 
>> *À :* OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
>> *Cc :* "h...@openstreetmap.org" 
>> *Envoyé le :* samedi 25 mars 2017 13h28
>> *Objet :* [OSM-talk] A tool for picking up settlements tagged as a
>> single building?
>>
>> It's something I've noticed in Africa so its probably not putting new
>> mappers through a month's training first but many villages have been mapped
>> but tagged as a single building with building=yes.
>>
>> They aren't grouped together but rural Africa doesn't have that many
>> large foot print buildings so it should be possible to pick them out based
>> on location and size.
>>
>> Any thoughts on how to pick them out?
>>
>> Thanks John
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> h...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Beware Pokemon users

[Jo]

As long as we eat our own dog food, we should be able to locate these
problems, albeit not in a timely enough fashion.

If those new users get it wrong, help them like you would any other new
user. Keeping in mind they have: decent smartphones with GPS, heaps of time
to spend either on PoGo or possibly on something more worthwhile like OSM.
Tell them about Mapillary and OpenStreetCam. I know the game doesn't like
to "share" the phone, but some people manage to kick their addiction (and
hopefully swap it for a more  useful one :-) )

Polyglot

2016-12-28 9:20 GMT+01:00 David Kewley :

> I've so far simply been using a basic query like
>
> highway=footway and newer:"2016-12-22:00:00:00"
>
>
> This still requires a lot of manual review, of course. Too much to do in
> great detail over large areas. I'm sure I'm missing things, but results of
> this query has identified PoGo mapping problems, scattered among many
> legitimate-looking edits.
>
> There are other things to look for besides footways; this may give hints:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/search?q=overpass&restrict_sr=on
>
>
> If someone comes up with a more sophisticated query, or a query that helps
> hone in more sharply on PoGo mapping problems, let us know.
>
> David
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Rihards  wrote:
>
>> On 2016.12.27. 10:15, David Kewley wrote:
>> > I thought this might be a big problem at first, but now I think it's
>> > probably a net good thing.
>> >
>> > In Southern California, I saw about 40 users join in the first 24-48
>> > hours after the video was posted (Dec 22), who immediately started
>> > mapping footways and similar. A few were bad, most improved the map
>> > incrementally, if not with great skill, completeness, or accuracy. The
>> > rate of new people joining and adding footways and similar has gone way
>> > down since the first 24 hours.
>> >
>> > I just now used Overpass-Turbo to check for new footways in the past ~2
>> > days in all the western U.S. (to just west of San Antonio, not including
>> > Alaska and Hawaii), zoomed in briefly on each locality in turn, and
>> > found with this quick ad hoc eyeball survey only two users who were
>> > obviously gaming OSM for Pokemon Go in an unhelpful way. I'll address
>> > them or send them to DWG. All the others looked reasonable upon a first
>> > pass, although I might have missed a few. Some I didn't see may already
>> > have been cleaned up, of course.
>> >
>> > So the potential problem is big, but I think the actual problem is not
>> > too big, and can probably be contained with our current level of effort.
>> > Meanwhile there are tons of incremental additions that are probably net
>> > improvements to the map, and a few of these folks will continue to
>> > improve the map over time. I've already seen a few of these new users
>> > branch out into non-Pokemon-related improvements. Plus it gives OSM
>> > wider awareness.
>> >
>> > One other thing to look out for, which most people are doing well, but a
>> > few are doing inappropriately, is changing school grounds from
>> > amenity=school to =college or =university.
>> > See https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/5jv1c4/i_
>> think_i_figured_out_why_pokemon_never_spawned/.
>> > I had to change one secondary school back to =school after an apparent
>> > Pokemon user changed it to =college. I also changed one community
>> > college from =school to =college when I noticed it was mistagged while
>> > looking at new footways drawn there. Hope it helps them have fun with
>> > their game. :)
>> >
>> > I've also seen fake parks, piers, lakes, and similar area objects get
>> > added in an apparent attempt to help Pokemon. Footways may be the most
>> > common manifestation of this wave of activity, but not the only one.
>>
>> could you please share the overpass query you used ? i'd like to review
>> such additions around here as well.
>> i am following the edits of new users, and so far contributions of 2 or
>> 3 have been worthy a revert.
>>
>> it would be also useful to have a list of tags/changes the pokemon go
>> players make. footways are the most obvious, but i've also seen
>> (incorrect_ recreational_grounds added. several users have also changed
>> existing residentials, pedestrian streets and tracks to footways -
>> incorrectly in all the cases.
>>
>> > Fun fact: On 12/22 I actually stumbled across a deletion of the footway
>> > added in the video, before I was aware of the existence of the video and
>> > the Pokemon-related editing. That issue is since resolved. The
>> > videographer is pretty local to me, and in the video he hikes in hills I
>> > know. A brush with a weird kind of notoriety, I guess.
>> >
>> > David
>> ...
>> --
>>  Rihards
>>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.o

Re: [OSM-talk] Should we send automated "nag" emails?

[Jo]

We've been nagging iD developers for months, if not years, about this now.
I thought it was resolved a few months back, but apparently not.

Why is it necessary to make it so complicated to draw a building that
doesn't get uploaded as area=yes in iD? Why not simply default to
building=yes or warn about the error and give mappers the chance to convert
all their newly mapped area=yes to building=yes, preferably in one swift go?

No, the validators need to stumble upon it, then tell the mappers on a one
to one basis about the proper way to map. My personal preference is to
suggest that other editor out there, where you can draw rectangular
buildings with just 3 mouse clicks. But that one is considered way too
complicated to get going with. So let's not use that.

Polyglot

2016-10-09 20:27 GMT+02:00 john whelan :

> If you look at parts of Africa in particular there are too many to send
> out individual emails.  HOT doesn't even begin to validate more than half
> the tiles that its mappers marked done never mind the ones have mapped on.
> So that's where the question comes from.  I'm not saying its all HOT by any
> means.
>
> The question is more because of the quite large numbers is there some
> better way to handle these.  To catch the mappers before they get set in
> their habits?  Can we use some statistical analysis to see if we can reduce
> the number?
>
> I accept that JOSM will warn but it can be overridden I don't know enough
> about iD or other editors.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 9 October 2016 at 14:11, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 10/09/2016 07:14 PM, john whelan wrote:
>> > I'm seeing many many ways in the map which are untagged. Some are simply
>> > area=yes and I suspect it is not just HOT mappers.
>>
>> HOT mappers or no, if there are many mappers doing this then the rewards
>> must be calibrated badly.
>>
>> Ordinary mappers' reward, at least when they begin, is to see their
>> stuff on the map. A way tagged area=yes will not be visible, hence no
>> reward. We'd have to find out what (badly calibrated) reward these
>> people get - are they driven by a teacher, a task manager, some leader
>> board?
>>
>> *This* is what we should ask them - why did you map what you mapped,
>> what incentive was there?
>>
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>>
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] free ebook, R for geospatial analysis

[Jo]

Hi,

Packt Publishing gives away a free ebook

https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning

Jo
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM Brussels public transport info

[Jo]

A bicycle is indeed very convenient (in combination with OSMAND). Cycling
in Brussels was a crazy thing to do 20 years ago, but things have improved
for the better.

The terrain goes up and down though, so be prepared for some uphill.

Polyglot

2016-09-22 11:36 GMT+02:00 Rafael Avila Coya :

> To move around Brussels, you can also use the Villo! bicycle network [1].
> You can get a ticket for a day or a week. Very cheap [2], and it's working
> very well for me.
>
> To buy a card, you can do it at any Villo! station.
>
> I am usin AllBikesNow [3] android app to check nearest bicycle stations.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rafael.
>
> [1] http://en.villo.be/
>
> [2] http://en.villo.be/Rates/Rates/Consult-the-rates
>
> [3] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.jcdecaux.a
> llbikesnow&hl=nl
>
>
> On 22/09/16 07:59, Stephan Knauss wrote:
>
>> On 22.09.2016 06:00, Jo wrote:
>>
>>> The reason for the extra fee on top of STIB/MIVB tickets is that they
>>> operate in Brussels, but the airport is 'out of their normal reach',
>>> over in Flanders.
>>>
>>
>> They could state it clearer that the airport is outside the network.
>> Thanks for the explanation.
>>
>> The cheapest (€3) way to get from the airport to Brussels is using De
>>> Lijn 272, 471, BUT that will take about an hour to get to the wrong side
>>> of the city. The terminus at North Station is not the VUB campus.
>>>
>> Perfect for me as I will arrive in the evening and have a hotel in that
>> area. Thanks again.
>>
>> From there to the VUB campus sounds easy again as it is all within the
>> city, so all transports are available.
>>
>> Stephan
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM Brussels public transport info

[Jo]

The reason for the Diabolo tax (when you take the train), is that extra
rails and tunnels were built to make the airport connection a lot smoother.

http://www.belgianrail.be/jp/sncb-nmbs-routeplanner/query.exe/en?S=Brussels+Airport+-+Zaventem&Z=Delta&date=23/09/2016&time=05:46&start=1×el=depart&&REQ0JourneyStopsSID=A=1@O=Brussels%20Airport%20-%20Zaventem@X=4482076@Y=50896456@U=80@L=008819406@B=1@p=1474500303@n=ac.1=GA@&REQ0JourneyStopsZID=A=1@O=Delta@X=4403869@Y=50818358@U=80@L=008811205@B=1@p=1474500303@n=ac.1=GA@&REQ0JourneyProduct_prod_list=3:0111&OK#focus

The reason for the extra fee on top of STIB/MIVB tickets is that they
operate in Brussels, but the airport is 'out of their normal reach', over
in Flanders. So if you take bus 12 or 21, you have to buy a supplementary
ticket at their vending machines. The JUMP ticket is issued by them and
they made agreements with the other operators so inside the Brussels region
it's possible to use the other means of transport as well. The airport is
not within Brussels region.

http://www.stib-mivb.be/tripplanner/TravelPlans?Accessible=false&AllowBike=false&AllowBus=true&AllowCar=false&AllowExpress=false&AllowFlexi=false&AllowMetro=true&AllowNight=false&AllowRegular=false&AllowSchool=false&AllowTrain=true&AllowTramway=true&BikeOnBoard=false&Date=2016-9-23&DestinationIdentifier=8232&DestinationType=Stop&ExcludedSites=&DisplayPreferenceOnly=false&MaxBikeDistance=&OriginIdentifier=9600&OriginType=Stop&PreferredRoutes=12%2C5&RideWithAtArrivalDeparture=&ShowOptions=false&Time=5%3A50&TimeType=SpecifiedDepartureTime&UseDefaultSites=false&ViaLocationIdentifier=&ViaLocationType=&l=en


The cheapest (€3) way to get from the airport to Brussels is using De Lijn
272, 471, BUT that will take about an hour to get to the wrong side of the
city. The terminus at North Station is not the VUB campus. Their focus is
serving Flanders, and although they do continue into Brussels, it's not the
priority.

https://www.delijn.be/en/routeplanner/resultaten.html?from=Brussels+Airport%2C+Zaventem&startXCoordinaat=158094&startYCoordinaat=176021&to=Station+Delta+%5BB%5D&finishXCoordinaat=152475&finishYCoordinaat=167548&datum=23-09-2016&departureChoice=1&tijd=05%3A55&option-bus=on&option-tram=on&option-metro=on&option-trein=off&option-belbus=off

If you see colours on the line numbers, they are operated by De Lijn. If
the numbers are black, they are operated by STIB/MIVB and your ticket of De
Lijn won't be valid on those.


It's a mess. The route planners do work to give you the best connections,
but tarification is opaque. Even more so for locals who have abonnement for
one of the operators, or who arrive by train, giving them the right to use
the train to continue to any station in Brussels.

Polyglot

2016-09-21 23:16 GMT+02:00 Ruben :

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 22:58:29 +0200
> Christian Rogel  wrote:
>
> > Le 21 sept. 2016 à 22:31, Stephan Knauss  a
> écrit :
> > >
> > > I am just completing my trip planning to ensure a smooth arrival at
> SOTM. The Brussels public transport leaves me a bit uncertain.
> > >
> > > I will arrive at Brussels Airport.
> > >
> > > The trip planner suggests to take a train 3737 to Bruxelles Nord.
> > > http://www.stib-mivb.be/reisweg-itineraire.html?l=en
> > >
> > > I wonder: Is this also included in the Jump 24h ticket costing 7.50
> EUR?
> > > The website mentiones a Bourget-Brussels Airport section
> > > http://www.stib-mivb.be/1-jour-dag.html?l=en
> > >
> > > But if I check the website of the train, then it says I should get a
> Standard ticket for 8,60 EUR. Why would it suggest that if I could go for
> Jump with 7,50? Sounds like it is not included.
> > >
> > > http://www.belgianrail.be/en/travel-tickets/which-is-the-
> right-ticket-for-me.aspx
> > >
> > > Is the Jump ticket maybe not valid for trains? Is it valid for the bus
> lines to the airport only?
> > >
> > > Would be great is a seasoned Brussels traveler can give some details.
> > >
> > > Thanks, and see you at SOTM,
> > >
> >
> > You will have a yes answer there : https://www.stib-mivb.be/1-
> jour-dag.html?l=en
> >
> > From Bruxelles
> >
> > See you maybe there,
> >
> > Christian Rogel
>
> SNCB=NBMS, the train operator in the whole of Belgium
> STIB=MIVB, Brussels' bus, tram and metro operator
> TEC, Wallonia's bus, tram and metro operator, also active in Brussels
> De Lijn, Flanders' bus, tram and metro operator, also active in Brussels
>
> Although I'm not familiar with JUMP passes, according to the SNCB/NMBS
> they are valid on all public transport operators I mentioned above:
> http://www.belgianrail.be/en/travel-tickets/passes-cards/jump.aspx
>
> Beware when traveling by train from/to Brussels Airport: you may have to
> pay an additional "Diabolo" fee: http://www.belgianrail.be/en/
> travel-tickets/tickets/diabolo-fee-to-airport/no-diabolo.aspx. As far as
> I can see, you have to pay it when using a JUMP pass.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> t

Re: [OSM-talk] Can we utilise the popularity of Pokémon Go for OSM?

[Jo]

I'm not playing the game, as it would get in the way of making Mapillary
pictures...
If you could convince the creators of the game to include making pictures
(and sending them out when back on wifi) to gain extra points of spots
where we need such pictures, then yes. Without their cooperation, you'd
need to convince them to install another app and it wouldn't make the
players win extra points in the Pokemon game, so I don't think they'd be
very interested.

Now, if we could launch a game of our own and hype that...

Polyglot

2016-07-14 13:46 GMT+02:00 Svavar Kjarrval :

> Hi.
>
> Now that Pokémon Go[1] is gaining popularity, people in general will
> spend more time outside walking around with their phone in hand (and
> some with mobile USB chargers). I'm wondering if there might be
> opportunities for OpenStreetMap to utilise that activity to encourage
> the gamers to collect (non-infringing) data for OSM while they're
> playing the game anyway.
>
> I'm not claiming I have any specific ideas at this point. Just wanted to
> bring this point forward.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Go
>
> With regards,
> Svavar Kjarrval
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Revert UI

[Jo]

Great work, Ilya! A big thank you.

Polyglot

2016-06-30 22:46 GMT+02:00 Ilya Zverev :

> Hi everyone,
>
> I've made a web interface to my revert scripts: http://revert.osmz.ru
>
> It is as easy to use as the simple-revert.py, but you don't have to use
> the command-line interface. Simply paste some changesets, press a button
> and watch as they are being reverted.
>
> The reverter has some limits, e.g. only 200 changed objects can be
> reverted, and no way/relation membership changes. On the plus side, it does
> a 3-way merge instead of just restoring older versions, so you won't run
> into any conflicts.
>
> If somebody wants to improve the design or add any features, I'd be glad
> to have your help: https://github.com/Zverik/RevertUI
>
> The backend uses simple-revert scripts, which I turned into a library and
> uses in some other projects: https://github.com/Zverik/simple-revert
>
> IZ
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Upload slowness - what's going on?

[Jo]

Hi Grant,

Thank you for the technical explanation and especially for all the efforts
improving the infrastructure! It's unfortunate uploads are so much slower
now, but if the whole setup is more reliable/redundant, that's a small
price to pay.

Polyglot

2016-05-13 14:59 GMT+02:00 Grant Slater :

> Hi All,
>
> On Monday 9th May 2016 the master OSM database server was moved to
> York (Bytemark) from London (Imperial).
> This was to avoid multiple upcoming weekends of planned power testing
> & maintenance at the Imperial data centre. For the last few years
> Imperial has housed all our main critical systems including master &
> slave DB servers and frontend & backend web/api servers. We also added
> 4 new frontend/backend web/api server to York on Monday.
>
> We now have the master database server in York and the secondary
> database server in Imperial. We also have a warm standby slave db in
> AWS Ireland. A fourth SSD (NVMe) based DB server was delivered
> yesterday (Thursday), but it needs testing (burn-in, reliability,
> performance etc) before we can start using it. Slave DB servers can be
> promoted to master if required.
>
> The slave db servers serve Web/API read traffic and writes go to the
> master. When the frontend + backend servers were in the same data
> centre as the master db server the latency was <1ms. We now run a VPN
> to connect the servers up and the latency is ~8ms Imperial to
> Bytemark. Currently we are using the frontend & backends server at
> Imperial (closest to slave db read server) and sending writes over the
> VPN to Bytemark. The extra 8ms roundtrip is triggered multiple times
> based on the size of the upload changeset, this is the root cause for
> the slower uploads. The link between Imperial & Bytemark can handle
> gigabit speeds. Over the last few days we've been tweaking the VPN
> settings to get optimal latency & throughput over the links.
>
> Over today (for at least the weekend) we are switching to the new
> frontend & backend servers in York (Bytemark). London Imperial will be
> offline from approximately 5pm (GMT+1) for the first weekend of power
> maintenance.
>
> In summary: The slow uploads are a known issue and we'll fix as soon
> as practical. Our main concern has been setting up multiple data
> center redundancy to avoid extended downtime.
>
> Here is the list of all core hardware and hosting locations:
> https://hardware.openstreetmap.org/
>
> Hope that answers the questions. ;-)
>
> Photos or it didn't happen:
> * Syncing & powering down before we start London -> York DB move:
> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/729582996685213696
> * Staged photo of racking up the master DB server at Bytemark:
> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/729693392737832961
> * Testing the new Frontend / Backend servers a week ago:
> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/728286193696292865
>
> Bytemark are a fantastic hosting company and their ongoing support of
> the OpenStreetMap project is highly commendable. Please support them
> ;-) https://twitter.com/bytemark/status/729698435339853824
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Grant
> Part of the OSM Ops team.
>
>
> On 13 May 2016 at 11:44, Tim Waters  wrote:
> > I believe the Dev mailing list may have some of your technical answers
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2016-May/thread.html
> >
> > It appears from that list that the database servers are now a few
> > hundreds of miles from where the web servers are, causing the increase
> > in latency. I do not know if this is a permanent change, the thread on
> > osm-dev does seem to indicate that things are still in flux.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > On 13 May 2016 at 06:02, Ben Discoe  wrote:
> >> Several of us have noticed radically slowly upload speed for
> >> changesets, roughly since the server move on May 9.  Like, as
> >> painfully slow as it used to be, it's now several times slower.
> >>
> >> It's been discussed with @OSM_Tech on twitter, in this thread:
> >> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/730857486618664960
> >>
> >> Before I get too hysterical, can somebody tell me what happened, and
> >> can it be fixed?
> >>
> >> OSM_Tech's mysterious message:
> >>   "Large uploads will take around 3 times longer. Small uploads extra
> >> delay should be minimal."
> >>
> >> Does this mean that something did change?  It is database writes that
> >> are taking so much longer?  Changesets with as few as 400 object are
> >> taking several times longer, what constitutes "large" vs. "small"?
> >> Can it be fixed?  Can I donate large sums of money somewhere to help
> >> it get fixed?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> ___
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
> ___
> talk mailing lis

Re: [OSM-talk] A student interested in OSM and GSoC2016

[Jo]

Hi,

The JOSM Plugin to assist with adding public transport routes seems like a
very popular project. I've already talked to 7 people about it. We can have
a hangout, so I can explain to you what it's all about, but you'll have a
lot of competition.

The project in itself isn't very hard for somebody how knows Java and I
even already have a prototype ready in Python. This can, of course, be
improved upon. Probably a lot. It's merely an attempt to script the actions
I got tired of repeating over and over while adding routes and the plugin
would need to be interacting with the user a lot more. The user experience
is the most important part. When somebody wants to rearrange an
intersection or convert a road to dual carriage-way, the plugin should
assist in converting the route relations for the bus and tram lines.

One of the factors that will also come into play when deciding on a
candidate is (prior) involvement with OpenStreetMap and whether you plan to
become part of the project afterwards, i.e. how likely is it, that you will
continue fixing bugs and maybe add more features once Google stops paying
you the stipend?

The other big thing is Test Driven Development (TDD). Do you plan to write
tests first and then implement code to make the tests pass? So you can add
features without having to worry about introducing bugs? Google values that
and so do I.

As far as I can tell, the hardest part is getting your environment set up,
oh and maybe writing a compelling proposal :-)

For this JOSM plugin it's probably better to continue the discussion on the
josm-dev mailing list. For the web editor, I'm not sure, probably osm-dev.

We also have a mailing list dedicated to public transport: talk-transit,
but there isn't much traffic there.

Polyglot



2016-03-13 18:27 GMT+01:00 Mengying Wang :

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I’m a junior student majoring in Software Engineering from Shanghai
> Institute of Technology in China.
>
>
>
> I learned the OSM through the organizations list of GSoC2016, and I was
> attracted by the concept of open street map, create a free editable map of
> the world. So, I hope to have the opportunity to join you by participating
> in GSoC2016.
>
>
>
> I am interested in the ideas of the Public Transport, JOSM Plugin to
> assist with adding public transport routes and Web editor for public
> transport routes. On the one hand, I’m a college girl who love to go out to
> play by public transport, it’s  closely connected to my life so I am
> terribly concerned about it. And on the other hand, I think I can deal with
> these ideas by my endeavor.
>
>
>
> I’ll be very excited and grateful if someone can help me.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Wang Mengying
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

[Jo]

The main problem with Commons (at least for the pictures I took while
mapping) is that there is no guarantee your pictures will be kept. For the
good ones, there is no problem. For the 1000th picture of a bus stop and
its surroundings, they will be nominated and removed.

Personally I would go with Mapillary, they even have a tool to contribute
the better ones to Wikipedia. It's practical, but then they get a small
Mapillary icon. At least they will get a free license attached. If you post
them on Fickr, they're already lost for the community.

Polyglot



2016-02-14 2:10 GMT+01:00 Eugene Alvin Villar :

> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Russ Nelson  wrote:
>
>> The trouble with any non-profit service is that if they cease to get
>> donations, they will be shut down.
>>
>
> This observation also applies to the OSM database as hosted by the OSMF.
> But we all still contribute to OSM anyway because we trust that OSMF or
> another entity will be able to continue hosting the database. This is
> possible because of the license.
>
> I would suggest to upload your photos to Wikimedia Commons (of course with
> an open/free license—Wikimedia Commons won't host it otherwise). You can
> also provide a back-up on Flickr which also allows tagging photos under a
> CC license.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] who do we trust for photos?

[Jo]

Commons on Wikipedia/Wikimedia? Mapillary? Upload them to 4 different
services, to be sure? Spread the risk.

Polyglot

2016-02-13 22:41 GMT+01:00 Michael Reichert :

> Hi Russ,
>
> Am 13.02.2016 um 22:24 schrieb Russ Nelson:
> > Here's a possibly silly, possibly serious question: who do we trust to
> > keep photos of features? Once I finish gathering my set of photos of
> > NY railroad bridges, where should I upload them so that I can
> > automagically add links to the photos to each OSM bridge=yes way?
> >
> > Flickr? Archive.org? Wikimedia.org? Google Photos? Instagram?
>
> Do you speak of adding a image=$URL tag to these bridges? (Btw, I would
> add a man_made=bridge polygon if you have good aerial imagery and add
> the image=* tag to this polygon)
>
> image=* should – from my point of view – only used for images which have
> been published under a free and open license and whose platform can
> easily queried for the image's license by data users.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Jo Walsh]

>
> And isn't this the project that caused a lot of problems because the
> users started adding all kind of services/shops/companies without a
> physical presence to the OSM data ? [2]
>
> [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20859 (April 14,
> 2013)
> [2]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-May/069761.html

This would seem to be the case:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bitcoin

Automated contributions via this account stopped 8 months ago:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BitcoinMaps
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing Starbucks Wikipedia Tags (Was Nominatim Weakness)

[Jo]

Why is that a problem? We do tend to tag them, so why not try to get it
right and do it properly? I have to admit I didn't go as far as adding
opening hours, AFAIC that's what the deeplinks are there for. I also didn't
add any new ones for my area of interest, just fixed the already mapped
ones.

Jo

2016-01-21 18:27 GMT+01:00 JB :

> Just saying that I'm impressed how much people can write about that
> specific private company. Are there some lobbyists hidden somewhere out
> there? Will next month be the same with McDonald's or Burger King?
>
> Le 21/01/2016 17:25, Andy Mabbett a écrit :
>
>> On 21 January 2016 at 07:14, Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:
>>
>> For chain stores I tend to add a link to the corporate website only
>>>
>> I thought we weren't supposed to do that?
>>
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fixing Starbucks Wikipedia Tags (Was Nominatim Weakness)

[Jo]

I totally agree, so this morning I worked on the Starbucks the Starbucks
that existed previously in Belgium.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36694768

I also added direct links to the Starbucks home page for that particular
one + created a Wikidata item for the operator and pointed to that one as
well.

Polyglot

2016-01-20 16:50 GMT+01:00 Janko Mihelić :

> It would be great if you guys added brand:wikidata=Q37158 to all of them,
> that way you can search for all Starbucks with one easy query.
>
> sri, 20. sij 2016. u 00:46 Alejandro S.  napisao
> je:
>
>> Just removed last wrong point in Spain.
>> Only 11 point to go.
>>
>> Atentamente,
>>   Alejandro Suárez
>>
>> On 18 January 2016 at 07:26, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for getting this fixed. Looks much better already. Only a few
>>> countries to go.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Satoshi IIDA 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 I had reported this issue on talk-ja ML, and got no against.
 So I had removed the tags on Starbucks in Japan area.

 Thanks!



 2015-12-16 8:32 GMT+09:00 Andy Mabbett :

> On 15 December 2015 at 21:37, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <
> sea...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I disagree with this tagging. You only tag wikipedia=* if the
> Wikipedia
> >> article and the OSM object refers to the same thing. The Wikipedia
> article
> >> is about the company/brand and not about the original store even
> though the
> >> article would certainly mention the store (as part of the company's
> >> history).
>
> > I agree, the wikipedia article is "Original Starbucks."  I updated
> the tag
> > to reflect the correct article, not the generic corp. article.
>
> That's:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Starbucks
>
> Please also tag the OSM object with:
>
>wikidata=Q16896241
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



 --
 Satoshi IIDA
 mail: nyamp...@gmail.com
 twitter: @nyampire

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> @osm_seattle
>>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Belgium/Netherlands Boundary Change

[Jo]

We'll take care of it, when it's ratified. It still needs to be discussed
by both governments before it becomes official.

Polyglot

2016-01-05 12:54 GMT+01:00 Steve Doerr :

> Just read this article about a territory-swap between The Netherlands and
> Belgium: http://actualite24.info/post/316916
>
> I wonder if this has taken effect yet? It's not reflected in OSM
> currently. I think I'll leave it for the local communities to action.
>
> --
> Steve
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to amalgamate two relations?

[Jo]

Hi Dave,

You're right, you have to tag that one as deleted. Or search for it with
JOSM and delete it there. You don't have to do it in one session. While
editing with a text editor, it's probably best not to have the layer
present in JOSM.

Jo

2016-01-01 19:56 GMT+01:00 Dave F. :

> Thanks to all who commented.
>
> In hindsight I probably wasn't worth doing, but I've learnt something new
> for the future (especially that it can be done in P2)
>
> Jo, I haven't tested it but does JOSM know it's meant to delete the latter
> relation? Does the download/editing/upload have to be performed in one
> session?
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
> On 23/12/2015 15:37, Jo wrote:
>
> In XML (the raw .osm format) you can also solve this.
>
> Use JOSM to download both relations, save them as an .OSM file.
>
> Open the file with a text editor and do some copy/pasting so only 1
> relations is left with the original id.
>
> Open the file in JOSM and upload. Use the comment to indicate what you did.
>
> Polyglot
>
> 2015-12-23 15:10 GMT+01:00 Richard Fairhurst :
>
>> Dave F. wrote:
>> > Is there an easy way to transfer the newer data into the
>> > original relation?
>>
>> In P2:
>>
>> - Select a way belonging to both relations, adding them if needs be
>> - In the \/ menu next to the new relation (Advanced panel), choose 'Select
>> all members'
>> - In the \/ menu next to the original relation, choose 'Add selection to
>> this relation'
>> - In the \/ menu next to the new relation, choose 'Delete relation'
>>
>> cheers
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Best-way-to-amalgamate-two-relations-tp5863106p5863117.html
>> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing 
> listtalk@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
> --
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Best way to amalgamate two relations?

[Jo]

In XML (the raw .osm format) you can also solve this.

Use JOSM to download both relations, save them as an .OSM file.

Open the file with a text editor and do some copy/pasting so only 1
relations is left with the original id.

Open the file in JOSM and upload. Use the comment to indicate what you did.

Polyglot

2015-12-23 15:10 GMT+01:00 Richard Fairhurst :

> Dave F. wrote:
> > Is there an easy way to transfer the newer data into the
> > original relation?
>
> In P2:
>
> - Select a way belonging to both relations, adding them if needs be
> - In the \/ menu next to the new relation (Advanced panel), choose 'Select
> all members'
> - In the \/ menu next to the original relation, choose 'Add selection to
> this relation'
> - In the \/ menu next to the new relation, choose 'Delete relation'
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Best-way-to-amalgamate-two-relations-tp5863106p5863117.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: GIS Day in Lomé and Haiti in the middle of two OSM and GIS capacity building missions

[Jo Walsh]

Remember that GIS Day is an ESRI trademark.

Some of us prefer to celebrate PostGIS Day, which falls the following day. 

OSGeo4ever,


zx

On November 18, 2015 11:56:54 PM GMT, nicolas chavent 
 wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>
>Apologies for cross-postings, I am resending from crisis mappers and
>hot
>this note for those still active mapping this GIS Day 2015.
>
>
>
>Sharing a short wrap up of how the GIS Day looked like for two
>collectives
>of mappers active in Lomé and Port Au Prince which might be of
>interest.
>
>
>"GIS Day" 08 PM (UTC), it's mid day in Port Au Prince (Haiti) and night
>time in Lomé (Togo) after long and happy working hours around OSM, GIS
>and
>opendata.
>
>In Togo at Université de Lomé UL (Lomé University UL):
>- 50 people working all day long on QGIS with OpenStreetMap data
>created
>through the first 4 days of the maptrek mivamapper (Come map Togo local
>language) in Anfamé (Lomé) but also with data from the OCHA Core
>Operational Datasets (COD) and Fundamental Operational Dataset (FOD)
>accessed via the Humanitarian Responses and the HDX platforms.
>- 20 people working half a day exploring, visualizing and retrieving
>geodata of all sorts (openstreetmap, opendata, gray-licensed data) with
>the
>IFL (Infrastructure de Données Spatiales Francophone Libre/ "Free
>Francophone SDI"-FFS) hosted in France at AgroCampus Ouest and
>maintained
>with the support of the GeOrchestra community.
>- The same 20 spent their afternoon reinforcing their grasp on the
>webmapping tool uMap with the same kind of data
>- Asides of this, the same people kept mapping Anfamé and Biu cities as
>the
>first targets set for the mivamapper maptrek experience started last
>Saturday 14-November (our 8 days-long mapathon)
>- Now that night fell over Lomé, the preparatory work for our second
>State
>Of The Map Africa, the SOTMTG 2015, is intensifying.
>
>In Haiti at the Port Au Prince base of Haiti Communitere,
>- a couple of Haitian experienced mappers are being taught OSM on a
>train
>the trainer program
>- The same with the ProjetEOF collective are also organizing for both
>remote attendance of the SOTMTG 2015 and the last day of mivamapper
>- They are also laying the ground for a mapathon that will take place
>this
>21-Nov at HC's base and will focus on Areas Of Interest for local
>communities in Haiti
>- Like the days before, they'll finish their days joining in Western
>African mappers in the mivamapper maptrek.
>
>
>A rich GIS day like most of our days in Haiti ([1], [2]) and in Togo
>([3],
>[4], [5]) over the past 2 weeks and likely of the coming 10 days
>throughout
>those two OSM and Free GIS capacity building missions designed, funded
>and
>co-implemented with the Digital Directorate of the Organisation
>Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and with our haitian partner
>Haiti
>Communitere
>
>
>Anyone interested on these initiatives and willing to join can follow
>blogs, wiki, mailing lists from ProjetEOF and local OSM groups from
>Togo,
>Niger, Mali, Burkina, Togo, Bénin and Sénégal as well as the FB and
>twitter
>accounts of those groups as well as the following hashtags #ProjetEOF
>#map4tg #mivamapper.
>
>
>Best,
>Nicolas
>
>
>[1]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-2015-haiti-un-dispositif-dappui-technique-et-organisationnel-a-osm-en-haiti/
>[2]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-haiti-2015-an-osm-technical-and-organizational-support-initiative-in-haiti/
>[3]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-3-semaines-dediees-a-la-cartographie-openstreetmap-et-a-la-geomatique-libre-qgis-et-lids-georchestra/
>[4]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-recit-dune-semaine-de-formation-aux-techniques-de-cartographie-openstreetmap/
>[5]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-mapathon-mivamapper-et-state-of-the-map-2015-togo-durant-gis-day-et-geoweek/
>
>
>
>-- 
>Nicolas Chavent
>Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
>Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
>Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
>Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99
>
>Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
>Skype: c_nicolas
>Twitter: nicolas_chavent
>
>
>
>
>___
>talk mailing list
>talk@openstreetmap.org
>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Why newbies' comment/message response rate is so low?

[Jo]

Indeed, without a feedback loop it's rather moot, an exercise in futility
to edit in the sandbox.

Jo

2015-11-17 0:20 GMT+01:00 Nicolás Alvarez :

> 2015-11-15 2:06 GMT-03:00 Daniel Koć :
> >
> > W dniu 14.11.2015 19:44, tony wroblewski napisał(a):
> >
> >> I think people need a playpen where they can try out ideas and map
> >> before contributing to the main map (Maybe there already is, I don't
> >> know). I think it should also be a requirement that people add a
> >
> >
> > I think this is the place for playing with editing OSM (sandbox):
> >
> > http://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org
>
> Sure, you can play with editing there. But you can't see the rendered
> result, you can't test routing, you can't test searching/geocoding...
> Doesn't seem too useful as a sandbox.
>
> --
> Nicolás
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Odd edits by rowers2 in Cameroon

[Jo]

That's also the impression I got when looking at his edits in a superficial
way.

Maybe I should ask him what I did wrong here:
http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=47.0788995&lon=8.4305183&zoom=21

My first attempt at 3D

Jo

2015-11-12 12:27 GMT+01:00 marekskleciak :

> Rowers2 is doing a good job, he is a kind of "turbomapper".
> See this: http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=51.0959006&lon=17.0250060&zoom=16
> 3D model of Wroclaw in Poland, done by rowers2.
> He makes also many of bug fixes in Poland.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Marek
>
>
>
> Dnia 12 listopada 2015 0:29 Jo napisał(a):
>
>
>
> He has indeed done some good work as well. I removed the 10-15% that
> wasn't.
>
> Jo
>
> 2015-11-12 0:19 GMT+01:00 john whelan :
>>
>> Looking more closely he's dropped in some 24,000 objects in this bit of
>> Cameroon most are useful and legit.
>>
>> I've dropped him a message and hopefully he'll clean up the the data.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> On 11 November 2015 at 18:08, Michał Brzozowski 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I meant they are purely fictional. He created these rows of buildings
>>> to test something, like different 3d attributes or whatever. They
>>> shouldn't exist in OSM.
>>>
>>> The legit ones I refered to are eg.
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/341996660 which are just at one
>>> corner of your bbox.
>>>
>>> Michał
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Jo  wrote:
>>> > The buildings are not in Cameroon though.
>>> >
>>> > I wrote him a changeset comment:
>>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34368108#map=3/31.80/21.27
>>> >
>>> > Polyglot
>>> >
>>> > 2015-11-11 23:49 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski :
>>> >>
>>> >> I seem to know why he's doing this and at users:Poland forum he was
>>> >> instructed not to do this. He's testing rendering of OSM-3D in some
>>> >> web maps (f4map?).
>>> >>
>>> >> Feel free to delete it. For the future, use changeset comments first,
>>> >> if you didn't. It his activity persists, go DWG on him.
>>> >>
>>> >> The takeaway is that whoever is he testing against, should offer some
>>> >> testing with our dev database or .osm files.
>>> >>
>>> >> As per point on the second column, these are legit buildings, visible
>>> on
>>> >> Bing.
>>> >>
>>> >> Michał
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:27 PM, john whelan 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Visible at
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 7.4396667 7.4711556
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 15.5891705 15.6047916
>>> >> >
>>> >> > There is nothing visible in Bing or Mapbox but that doesn't mean
>>> much
>>> >> > but
>>> >> > the shape and detail of the edits are suspicious to me and they
>>> seem to
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > made a very large number of edits recently in their history.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Could someone be nice and take a peek?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks John
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ___
>>> >> > talk mailing list
>>> >> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ___
>>> >> talk mailing list
>>> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___ talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org <http:///?cmd=compose&to=talk@openstreetmap.org>
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Odd edits by rowers2 in Cameroon

[Jo]

He has indeed done some good work as well. I removed the 10-15% that wasn't.

Jo

2015-11-12 0:19 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> Looking more closely he's dropped in some 24,000 objects in this bit of
> Cameroon most are useful and legit.
>
> I've dropped him a message and hopefully he'll clean up the the data.
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 11 November 2015 at 18:08, Michał Brzozowski 
> wrote:
>
>> I meant they are purely fictional. He created these rows of buildings
>> to test something, like different 3d attributes or whatever. They
>> shouldn't exist in OSM.
>>
>> The legit ones I refered to are eg.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/341996660 which are just at one
>> corner of your bbox.
>>
>> Michał
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Jo  wrote:
>> > The buildings are not in Cameroon though.
>> >
>> > I wrote him a changeset comment:
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34368108#map=3/31.80/21.27
>> >
>> > Polyglot
>> >
>> > 2015-11-11 23:49 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski :
>> >>
>> >> I seem to know why he's doing this and at users:Poland forum he was
>> >> instructed not to do this. He's testing rendering of OSM-3D in some
>> >> web maps (f4map?).
>> >>
>> >> Feel free to delete it. For the future, use changeset comments first,
>> >> if you didn't. It his activity persists, go DWG on him.
>> >>
>> >> The takeaway is that whoever is he testing against, should offer some
>> >> testing with our dev database or .osm files.
>> >>
>> >> As per point on the second column, these are legit buildings, visible
>> on
>> >> Bing.
>> >>
>> >> Michał
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:27 PM, john whelan 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Visible at
>> >> >
>> >> > 7.4396667 7.4711556
>> >> >
>> >> > 15.5891705 15.6047916
>> >> >
>> >> > There is nothing visible in Bing or Mapbox but that doesn't mean much
>> >> > but
>> >> > the shape and detail of the edits are suspicious to me and they seem
>> to
>> >> > have
>> >> > made a very large number of edits recently in their history.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Could someone be nice and take a peek?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks John
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
>> >> > talk mailing list
>> >> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> talk mailing list
>> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Odd edits by rowers2 in Cameroon

[Jo]

The buildings are not in Cameroon though.

I wrote him a changeset comment:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34368108#map=3/31.80/21.27

Polyglot

2015-11-11 23:49 GMT+01:00 Michał Brzozowski :

> I seem to know why he's doing this and at users:Poland forum he was
> instructed not to do this. He's testing rendering of OSM-3D in some
> web maps (f4map?).
>
> Feel free to delete it. For the future, use changeset comments first,
> if you didn't. It his activity persists, go DWG on him.
>
> The takeaway is that whoever is he testing against, should offer some
> testing with our dev database or .osm files.
>
> As per point on the second column, these are legit buildings, visible on
> Bing.
>
> Michał
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:27 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
> > Visible at
> >
> > 7.4396667 7.4711556
> >
> > 15.5891705 15.6047916
> >
> > There is nothing visible in Bing or Mapbox but that doesn't mean much but
> > the shape and detail of the edits are suspicious to me and they seem to
> have
> > made a very large number of edits recently in their history.
> >
> >
> > Could someone be nice and take a peek?
> >
> >
> > Thanks John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Unrepentant Vandal

[Jo]

Hi Andrew,

I used Potlatch 1 to retrieve your work. (edit with Potlatch, then remove
the 2 from the url) Then advanced/undelete select the way and unlock. Don't
forget to save.

It would indeed be better to map the road as a dual carriageway as well.

Polyglot

2015-11-07 11:36 GMT+01:00 Andrew Errington :

> Hi all,
>
> Here is a link to a random point on a light rail system:
> http://osm.org/go/546Jvddtd--?m=
>
> Soon after it opened I travelled on it from end to end, collecting gps
> data and photos of all the station signs.  There are two railway
> lines, one in each direction, and I mapped them both carefully.
>
> Recently I discovered that someone had helpfully deleted one of the
> lines and tagged the other with tracks=2.  I really don't think this
> is acceptable.
>
> I found the changeset and asked the user who did it why they destroyed
> my work.  They replied:
> "The OSM wiki implies that a single way with tracks=2 is the preferred
> way of showing rail lines with two tracks. This was the method used
> most in S. Korea, I was attempting to create consistency."
>
> This is not actually true (and I double-checked the wiki, just in
> case).  I pointed this out but the user did not acknowledge this was a
> mistake, or offer an apology.
>
> So, my question is, am I being unreasonable, or am I right to think
> this is unacceptable?  How can I guard against this?  I have no
> problem with people improving the map by improving the data, but I am
> starting to see a lot of deletions, incorrect tagging, and generally
> shoddy work appearing, especially in Korea where I have done a lot of
> original work.  Do I have to set up some kind of watch on all of my
> contributions and check them if someone edits them?
>
> Andrew
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Routes

[Jo]

2015-10-08 17:37 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :

> Looks like I need to find a different route, something easier. What I
> picked looked easy, only 4 stops, but over 100km long.
>
> My plan is to do as suggested, a relationship for each direction. When
> done, I'll look at a master relation for all.
>
> So two questions:
> 1) When looking at the bus routes in Rome, I noticed bus_stops are group
> together in the relation, not interspersed between ways. I would have
> thought that the stops would be in spatial order with the ways.
>

All the stops are together, either as the first members or the last. In the
order they are served.

>
> 2) Is it necessary to use forward/backward if the ways are in order?
>

There is no need for roles on the ways. If you put all of them in order,
you'll notice JOSM draws a continuous line on the right side of the
relation editor. This is quite nice to check whether the route is still
continuous. The route relations are fragile...
If you intersperse the stops among the ways, the continuity becomes harder
to check.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Routes

[Jo]

> Where is this master-master documented? I think some may shoot it
>> down, calling it a category. I use the operator and network tags to
>> group 'concessions', although here in Belgium they correspond to the
>> provinces.
>>
>
> It is not documented.
> In the Netherlands we have at present 35 concessions for buses [1]. These
> concessions will change operators regularly (they range in duration from 10
> to 20 years, so on average every year 2 concessions will end) and a new
> operator has new ideas, new lines, etc. Also sometimes concessions get
> split or combined.
> Making a relation for each concession greatly improves maintainability.
> You only have to load one relation in JOSM to get all lines and work from
> there.
> I would be really cross if someone decides to delete those relations :P
>

No worries I wasn't proposing to delete them.

>
> I believe officially you should only add nodes with
>>> "public_transport=stop_position", but in absence of those I also add
>>> "highway=bus_stop" (or even tag those with
>>> "public_transport=stop_position" which is not entirely correct).
>>>
>>
>> Don't  you mean public_transport=platform in that first sentence? I
>> think the official 'party line' is to add both platforms and
>> stop_positions.
>>
>
> That's not how I do it. But again: I'm not saying I'm doing it 100%
> correctly.
>

Me neither. I only add the platform nodes (nodes beside the way) to the
route relations. Maintenance on these route relations is hard enough,
without complicating matters unnecessarily.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Routes

[Jo]

2015-10-08 9:39 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> 2015-10-08 4:12 GMT+02:00 Clifford Snow :
>
>> If the bus travels over the same way going two different directions, is
>> the way added twice to the relationship, which means ignoring the JOSM
>> warning message? Or is the way only entered once with just no
>> forward/backward direction?
>
>
>
>
> After adding lots of bus routes (literally hundreds) and trying the
> different options, a mapper colleague in my area told me that the best way
> would be to use distinct relations for both directions and eventually
> combine them in a third relation. He used combined relations before but now
> has converted all of them to the new scheme.
>
> Here's an example:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1693163
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1693164
>
> Masterrelation to tie them together:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2208235
>
> If you use backward and forward roles the situation becomes rather opaque
> and much more difficult to spot errors.
>

True, I think we're all moving away from trying to use 1 relation to
describe all the possible variations of the routes.

The only issue I see with your route relations is that they don't have a
public_transport:version=2 (JOSM's validator will complain about that) and
that the platform nodes got the role=stop.

Polyglot
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Bus Routes

[Jo]

Hi,

I wrote something about it here:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Polyglot/diary/28401

It's written as a reaction to how the stops are mapped in Germany. The way
I see it, the nodes next to the ways are the more important ones, so they
are the ones that get added to the route relations and they are the ones
with all the details.

It's my impression that in Germany the stop posiiton nodes (which are part
of the highways) get all the details. Or sometimes both the platforms and
the stop_positions, which I tried to avoid for simplicity (of maintenance).

Anyway, I created a MapCSS style for visualising it more clearly and
several scripts, but they are most useful if the data of the operators is
available.

I also requested an improvement to JOSM. In expert mode, it's now possible
to sort the ways from 'this point forward'. (so leaving alone all the
members above).

There is one thing I do differently now compared to the period I recorded
those videos. All the platform nodes now go first, then the ways in the
order the bus or tram travels along them. If the bus passes the same
stretch of road twice, it will be in the route relation twice, showing up
red. This doesn't happen very often for trams, but it's a lot more frequent
for buses than one would expect.

Polyglot

2015-10-08 5:28 GMT+02:00 Eduardo :

> El 07/10/2015 8:12 pm, Clifford Snow escribió:
>
>> I'm trying to add my first bus route. I'm struggling to understand how
>> to properly add the relation. The route, like most bus routes, loops
>> back over the same ways. So my questions:
>>
>> If the bus travels over the same way going two different directions,
>> is the way added twice to the relationship, which means ignoring the
>> JOSM warning message? Or is the way only entered once with just no
>> forward/backward direction?
>>
>
> Adding the way to the relation twice, in the proper order, is what makes
> more
> sense to me. Of course, only if the bus travels over it twice in the same
> direction of travel (either outwards or returning).
>
> Are there any good tutorials to add bus routes?
>>
>
> I cannot point to one. I had to learn it the hard way.
>
>
>
> Eduardo
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk