Re: [Diversity-talk] Fwd: [Tagging] Tagging Informed Consent for Trans*/️‍⚧️ healthcare in OSM?

[Rory McCann]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 21:45, Adina Bogert-O'Brien  wrote:
> Mateus, this is something some clinics/doctors officially do though, so 
> it would be verifiable. It's not like saying, "we won't belittle you" 
> or "our food is yummy." It's a clear clinic policy around what criteria 
> you need to fulfill in order for them to treat you. It's more 
> comparable to indicating the kind of therapy a therapist offers 
> (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy vs. psychoanalysis for example), what 
> insurance is accepted (private or public), or that an organization 
> offers services to a certain group of people (women, youth, LGBTQ*, 
> undocumented people, etc.).

Yep.

> Rory, I like your first suggestion, 
> healthcare:trans:informed_consent=yes/no, but I need to caveat that 
> with the statement that I am far from an expert on tagging or informed 
> consent ;) 

> It seems that the question of informed consent doesn't just cover hrt, 
> it covers surgeries and possibly other treatments I think? Is that also 
> your understanding?

yeah, that's what I think. Healthcare laws vary by country, so things like 
voice therapy might be included too?

> Initially I was thinking it would make a lot of 
> sense to include the specific therapy covered by informed consent, but 
> maybe that's redundant since if you treat based on informed consent, 
> that seems like it would cover all aspects of care provided to trans 
> folks - but it would be good to confirm that as well.

I _presume_ so... but good point. Thankfully OSM tags can be generic like this, 
so we can just add "some informed consent"

> And the other 
> tagging (eg: trans*:hrt=yes, or healthcare:specialty:endocrinology, or 
> maybe healthcare:specialty:surgery?) would tell you what other types of 
> service they offer?

Yes, adding extra tags for what type of healthcare services are available can 
be done. But that's always been the case, even without informed consent 
tagging. I think this is an area which OSM is weak on (right?)


BTW, for those that use Telegram, there's a RainbOSM group: 
https://www.t.me/RainbOSM

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Fwd: [Tagging] Tagging Informed Consent for Trans*/️‍⚧️ healthcare in OSM?

[Rory McCann]

I think using the same term that data users, and the concerned population use 
is way better than coming up with a new term

On Wed, 24 Feb 2021  0:18, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:
> On 2/23/21 16:51, Bryce Cogswell via Diversity-talk wrote:
> > The confusion is because the trans community is using the term “informed
> > consent” as a shorthand for a related but different concept: that HRT is
> > available without a psychological evaluation (i.e. informed consent is
> > the only requirement to obtain HRT). 
> > 
> > As Adina points out the proposed tag doesn’t say whether the tag applies
> > to HRT only or also other related medical procedures. 
> 
> If this is the case, maybe we should come up with a better term that
> more accurately describes the same concept.
> 
> -- 
> Shawn K. Quinn 
> http://www.rantroulette.com
> http://www.skqrecordquest.com
> 
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[OSM-talk] I'm no-one's stooge!  | | Re: Call to Take Action and Confront Systemic Offensive Behavior in the OSM Community

[Rory McCann]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, at 21:46, Darafei Praliaskouski via talk wrote:
> That was done by a former board member, an employee/owner of a company 
> that has a seating board member, and if we mirror the whole thing - 
> "done to protect Geofabrik's investment into having a seat on the 
> board". Of course, such an interpretation will not be acceptable for 
> current board member, employee of Geofabrik and expectedly a report of 
> Frederik.

wait what? I'm the  OSMF Board Member in question, and Frederik is my boss, and 
who in non-corona times, I'd see every day.

I posted a reply to the thread: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085723.html

Rory

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[Diversity-talk] Etiquette Guidelines bad | Re: Code of conduct

[Rory McCann]

Have any of yous read the Ettiquette Guidelines¹? They're rubbish.

Frederik broke them by publically calling Mike Migurski out, and for not 
assuming he was acting in good faith. *But* if anyone publishes something 
saying “What Frederik did was wrong” (like I (& others) did), then they are 
also breaking the Ettiquette Guidelines! That's a horrible outcome!

¹ https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, at 16:57, Maggie Cawley wrote:
> I am so happy to see this thread. I believe it will take all of us 
> coming together and speaking with a unified voice to bring upon the 
> change we need at the global level. As Clifford mentioned, a few of us 
> from the LCCWG met on Monday to start talking about next steps. It's 
> not about one statement, but rather that discussions and comments like 
> those from this past week affect us all as we work to build diverse 
> communities around the world.   
> 
> Rob, Clifford and I discussed the need for a CoC, but when Rob pointed 
> out the Etiquette Guidelines exist and are pretty widely accepted it 
> seems like a logical place to start. It would also enable us to move a 
> bit more quickly since the document exists and won't need many rounds 
> of community feedback. What is missing is the process for moderation 
> and a committee available to moderate any complaints on breaches of 
> etiquette. It would be helpful to review and suggest edits to the 
> existing guidelines during this process as well. For the US CoC it took 
> about 8 months to finalize the CoC and moderation process, and find 
> volunteers for a committee.
> 
> I look forward to growing the conversation. Thanks Heather for starting 
> this thread here and to all of you who are stepping forward!
> 
> Maggie Cawley
> 
> 
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 21:30, arnalie faye vicario  
> wrote:
> > Hello/*Kumusta*,
> > 
> > *Salamat*/Thanks everyone for continuing the conversations and taking this 
> > seriously.
> > 
> > It is good to speak up and comment about it in our individual capacities, 
> > but a collective can build a fire  (charcoal comparison). 
> > 
> > This is what we did in OSM PH's Call to Correct Narratives About Geospatial 
> > Work in the Philippines (re: Amazon-HOT video).  
> > 
> > 
> > Also, I would like to quote and highlight what David Garcia 
> > (@mapmakerdavid) has shared in Twitter:
> >> It is not just the maps that matters. Who *makes* the maps matters. Who 
> >> *tells* the stories of the mapping matters, too. Who *LEADS* the mapping 
> >> and storytelling also matters. Who *gets powerful* due to the mapping and 
> >> storytelling matters most.
> > 
> > Thank you Geochicas, Celine @mapeadora, Heather, Rebecca, Miriam 
> > @mapanauta, Nelson Minar, LCCWG Group, OSMF past/present Board members 
> > (Kate, Rory and Mikel), HOT Community WG and everyone who expressed support 
> > and has spoken up (apologies if I missed your name). It is really 
> > encouraging and inspiring. Please add your thoughts in the document: 
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
> > 
> > In case you missed it (like me), here is what Celine sent in the OSM talk 
> > mailing list: 
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085727.html.
> > 
> > Let us keep the fire burning!
> > 
> > =Arnalie
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:54 AM Clifford Snow  
> > wrote:
> >> I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and myself, 
> >> want to accomplish is to create a committee to moderate the existing 
> >> etiquette guidelines and later update the guidelines to reflect best 
> >> practices of Code of Conducts.We planned to form a sub committee under the 
> >> LCCWG since CoC is critical to Local Chapters. We did a survey of Local 
> >> Chapters and those considering forming one. The results showed that 5 LC 
> >> already had a CoC, 6 did not and 6 were consider or in a discussion to 
> >> have a CoC.
> >> 
> >> Clifford
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Heather Leson  
> >> wrote:
> >>> Always
> >>> Heather Leson
> >>> heatherle...@gmail.com
> >>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson 
> >>> Blog: textontechs.com
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:31 PM Clifford Snow  
> >>> wrote:
>  Heather - A small group of the LCCWG met via BigBlueButton yesterday to 
>  start a similar initiative. I was going to send an invite to the rest of 
>  the LCCWG as well as to this mailing list. Since you have the ball 
>  rolling, can you include lo...@osmfoundation.org in the mailing.
>  
>  On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:22 PM Heather Leson  
>  wrote:
> > Great. working in the draft now.  
> > 
> > Thank you right back. Saturday is just a way to discuss this restart. 
> > We can keep building. 
> > 
> > Heather 
> > 
> > Heather Leson
> > 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] AI mapping roads released in IE

[Rory McCann]

Yeah this is basically the right list.

Lots of that FB detect stuff is rubbish. They still haven't fixed it. Lots of 
dreck in there.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, at 18:34, Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) via Talk-ie 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I never received a response about the question below.. Can I get a 
> confirmation on the correct mailing address to use when proposing a 
> posting to the talklist?
> 
> Thanks,
> Oisin
> 
> From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:02 AM
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Fw: AI mapping roads released in IE
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This was my first post to the Talk-ie list. If this isnt relevant, or 
> im not using the correct list, can you give me an idea of the 'type' of 
> contributions that are welcome on the thread?
> This looked like it would be in common with previous posts as per the 
> archives.
> 
> Thanks,
> Oisin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:53 AM
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> mailto:talk-ie@openstreetmap.org>>
> Subject: AI mapping roads released in IE
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> As of December 30th it seems Facebook have pushed the ability to map 
> roads in Ireland with their RapId editor -
> 
> https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/blob/master/WHATSNEW.md
> 
> 
> 
> For those who don't know what MapWithAI is check out https://mapwith.ai
> 
> For now this is roads only, and keep in mind that their are alot of 
> fences, ditches, and tracks in there. However, there is an option to 
> mark signals as false positives which may help improve  AI for
> a future round. Having another source to verify, or survey, will be 
> necessary in plenty of cases but a nice tool all the same.
> 
> Oisin
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Please review "Community attribution advice” wiki page

[Rory McCann]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, at 09:43, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> Can you give an example of something that would follow
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_attribution_advice
> and still would not fulfill ODBL?

What is and isn't allowed by the ODbL can (I think) only be answered by a court 
case.

These guidelines suffer the same mistake as the old OSMF Legal FAQ¹ of using 
“should”, rather than “must”. While some dialects would treat “should” as a 
very strong should, practically a “must”, the original author of that FAQ has 
said it was a mistake².

Someone could rightly read “should do/do not do X” as an optional requirement. 
Someone could read “the attribution should not be automatically hidden without 
action by the user” as meaning “It's OK to hide the attribution behind a popup 
that the user must click on”.

Interestingly there's an internet standard on these terms, RFC 2119³

¹ 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ#Where_to_put_it.3F
² https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-February/082136.html
³ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2119


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Re: [OSM-talk] Please review "Community attribution advice” wiki page

[Rory McCann]

Yes, fundamentally, you're 100% correct. The ODbL licence is the thing that 
matters when it comes to what's legally required. And that says nothing about 
“device independent pixels” or “javascript popup clicks”, it only refers to the 
mental state of someone.

The Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union on data protection 
(Art. 8) is only about 80 words long  (DE 73, EN 82, GA 101), but the GDPR that 
implements it is 55,000 words long. I view the ODbL as like our “constitution” 
for what you can do with the data. It will be short, but for practical real 
word answers you need laws & court cases which expand on it. One can always 
challenge a law for violating a constituation limit or requirement, and it 
should be the same with the ODbL & the OSMF's Attribution Guidelines.

So I think there's a lot of benefit in writing out, in my more detail, how you 
can follow §4.3, rather than speaking in generalities.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, at 00:08, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> 
> 
> > Rory McCann  hat am 07.12.2020 22:57 geschrieben:
> > 
> > But I think this attribution is too vague. It's advice seems to restate the 
> > relevant section from the ODbL. There are many examples of poor attribution 
> > where someone could argue that they meet this standard.
> 
> As i have already explained to you in
> 
> http://blog.imagico.de/the-osmf-changes-during-the-past-year-and-what-they-mean-for-the-coming-years-part-2/#comment-141145
> 
> the opposite is the case - the advise as formulated precisely explains 
> the criterion for valid attribution.
> 
> Attribution has the purpose to be perceived by humans.  To determine if 
> a certain form of attribution is acceptable you have to look at the 
> effect it has on human perception while interacting with the produced 
> work.
> 
> It is understandable that to people with a primarily technical 
> background this very concept appears uncomfortable and hard to grasp 
> and their reflex is to substitute this with something purely technical 
> where you can essentially program a test to verify if the attribution 
> is OK independent of the human user.  That cannot work.   
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Hormann 
> http://www.imagico.de/
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Please review "Community attribution advice” wiki page

[Rory McCann]

It's good to see more discussion on this. I like that this document lays out 
the moral requirment to attribute. We don't ask for any money, but we do ask 
you to attribute us. It's a very good bargain.

But I think this attribution is too vague. It's advice seems to restate the 
relevant section from the ODbL. There are many examples of poor attribution 
where someone could argue that they meet this standard.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020, at 21:41, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> I appreciate the wik page "Community attribution advice" which was made 
> by another community member. It seems to give good advice about how 
> database users can comply with the attribution guidelines in a way that 
> everybody* in this community can support.
> 
> Please review the page and make any comments for improvement if needed: 
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Community_attribution_advice
> 
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
> 
> (*Note that "everybody" does not include the interests of corporations, 
> which are not persons, but rather the interests of individual mappers 
> and database users)
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[OSM-talk] srsly?! | Re: I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Rory McCann]

[ I've been trying to stay out of the election to the board, because as a 
current board member I'll be working with 3 of the candidates after the 
election, but I must respond to this. ]

There are many examples of people excusing how Trump acted before the 2016 
election, claiming he would be “presidential” when elected, and you had to 
choose the example regarding sexual assault? Seriously?

You could have pointed out Trump's nepotism (before & after election), his 
horrible business/economic skills, his brash, rude and condescening manner of 
speaking, his history of brazely lying, and you had to go with _that_ example?

While disregarding the OSM licence is bad, it is no way comparible to sexual 
assault. By equating the two, you're diminising the seriousness of a type of 
crime which is already treated too lightly by many cultures & communities, and 
which statistically disproportionally affects women & nonbinary people. I don't 
know what you intended to communicate, but people will hear someone who doesn't 
think sexual assault isn't very bad. People will think you're not to be trusted 
with issues like this. That's why it wasn't tone policing.

I'm pretty sure Trump didn't think that action was loathsome BTW, why do you 
think he boasted about it? “Getting away with murder” has been used so much 
that we know it doesn't actually mean murder. One thing that causes that 
scandal with Trump is that we knew he was literally bragging about sexually 
assaulting people (that's in the first part of the quote too). Unfortuntaly 
intent isn't magic. I consider you a friend (and my boss), so I know you're a 
good guy, but plenty of people haven't met you and are gonna just have things 
like this to try to figure out who you are

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020, at 00:44, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> > FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> > is commonly associated with attribution.
> > 
> > Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> > attribution.
> 
> Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> upholding values they apparently don't share.
> 
> If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
> sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
> wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
> instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
> please vote for me."
> 
> Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
> before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
> twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
> whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
> he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
> our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
> paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
> on the planet.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Extremely long Amtrak route relations

[Rory McCann]

On Sat, 21 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Clay Smalley wrote:
> Many long-distance Amtrak trains have route relations with 1000+ 
> members. If I split one way that happens to be a member of one of these 
> routes, I end up with a changeset with a gigantic bounding box, and 
> often get edit conflicts due to someone doing a similar change hundreds 
> of miles away along the same line.

While mapping lots of little admin bounadaries in Ireland, I encountered this 
problem too, with splitting the "Ireland" admin boundary on the coast. It's a 
PITA, but if you upload & download/update as often as possible (even as soon as 
you make a change/split the way), then yous can alleviate as much as of the 
problem as possible. Essentiall "edit live"

On Sat, 21 Nov 2020, at 21:58, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
> Personally, I think if the world is complicated, the model should be 
> complicated.  If the thing we're modeling is large in the world, it 
> should be large in the map.  It seems that we are increasingly doing 
> things to simplify the model because certain tooling can't handle the 
> real level of complexity that exists in the real world.  I'm in favor 
> of fixing the tooling rather than neutering the data.

I 100% agree. Let's fix the tooling. Let's not map for database backend.

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[OSM-talk] FLOSS alt? | Re: reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

[Rory McCann]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 10:04 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Rory, I am absolutely sure there was no bad intent in the choice of 
> format and platform, but given where this discussion went so fast, I 
> believe the setting should be reconsidered, evaluating the possibility 
> of choosing an open platform.

Hmm, I do want to support open channels. Do you have an idea of an alternative?

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Re: [OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

[Rory McCann]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020, at 9:30 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> So i suppose you will circumnavigate any subject related to OSMF 
> governance or the election and that you will not refer to what is going 
> to be said there in any future discussion of OSMF matters (because then 
> it would need to be considered as part of a consultation by the board).

What, you think, I personally am not allowed to even _talk_ about anything to 
do with OSMF unless it's (e.g.) on this mailing list?! Come on, Christoph, 
that's ridiculus. If someone emails me, am I required to publish that email and 
any reply I make?! Seriously that's not what the committment to open 
communication channels means.

A web page is open protocols. The existance of some JS trying to nudge you to 
sign up doesn't make it "closed". Annoying maybe, but it's still open. Both 
archive.org & archive.is appear to be able to arcive reddit posts, so you have 
a way to view it.

Anyway, I'll save the web page after and send it to you, just to be 100% sure.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020, at 9:30 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> 
> 
> > Rory McCann  hat am 29.10.2020 21:06 geschrieben:
> > 
> > This just a social thing, not official announcements, so that doesn't 
> > apply. 
> 
> Quoting from the commitment:
> 
> > For the purpose of this commitment, essential communications 
> > include:
> > * Publications or consultations by the board, WGs, committees or 
> > other Foundation bodies.
> > * Communications mandated by OSMF policies/guidelines/frameworks 
> > and similar documents.
> > * Anything related to how the OSMF is governed, such as AGMs and 
> > elections.
> 
> So i suppose you will circumnavigate any subject related to OSMF 
> governance or the election and that you will not refer to what is going 
> to be said there in any future discussion of OSMF matters (because then 
> it would need to be considered as part of a consultation by the board).
> 
> > Regardless, you can read/vew it without needing to create an account, so 
> > essentially, there will be a web page you can read. 
> 
> Quoting again from the commitment:
> 
> > By open platforms, we mean those that are accessible through 
> > open-source software and open protocols, and do not require an 
> > account at a third-party service to access. (Read-only public 
> > access is sufficient for one-way publications, but not two-way 
> > communications.)
> 
> By the way - reddit has been most notorious in making their platform 
> essentially inaccessible to anyone who does not sign up with them - i 
> frequently when following links from some search results to their 
> platform have not been able to view the actual content because it was 
> hidden by javascript nudging you to sign up.  So you should not make 
> the assumption that content on reddit is accessible to everyone 
> (although i kind of think that in 2020 that should be common knowledge 
> for any proprietary corporate platform - just like twitter, facebook 
> etc.)
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Hormann 
> http://www.imagico.de/
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

[Rory McCann]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020, at 9:00 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> I am looking forward to the practical demonstration on how the board 
> will implement their recently made commitment to open channels with 
> that:
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2020-August/007095.html

This just a social thing, not official announcements, so that doesn't apply. 

Regardless, you can read/vew it without needing to create an account, so 
essentially, there will be a web page you can read. 

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[OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

[Rory McCann]

Hello OSMers,

Some of us on the OSM Foundation Board have agreed to do an AMA (Ask Me 
Anything) on the reddit forum for OpenStreetMap (aka “the r/openstreetmap 
subreddit”) starting on 15:00 UTC 9th November. It's an oppertunity to ask us 
some questions. Be gentle. 

More details: 
https://www.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/jk73ez/annoucement_ama_with_osmf_board_members_on_9th_of/

Event date/time in your timezone: 
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Reddit+AMA+with+OSMF+board+members=20201109T15=1440=23=55

Event Countdown: 
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=1440=20201109T15=Reddit%20AMA%20with%20OSMF%20board%20members

Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/IAmA

See you there. 

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Some of the 3300 parks in OSM Ireland are just patches of grass.

[Rory McCann]

I tend to do `landuse=grass` too

If you want more work, you could see who'se adding these features, and talk to 
them to ask them to stop.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, at 11:59 AM, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> As part of my researches into what features we have on OSM that might
> interest someone wishing to make use of outdoor facilities, I find on the
> Island of Ireland we have close to 3,300 parks to choose from, wow!
> (leisure=park). On closer inspection I find that many of these in South
> Dublin at least are green areas of grass in housing estates, maybe 4 houses
> long by 8 houses wide. I tend to tag those as per the presets with
> landuse=grass. Yesterday I ran overpass landuse=park and got nil response!
> This morning I have added landuse=park to about 24 of the parks already on
> OSM and listed as parks by DLR, South Dublin and Fingal. I have not removed
> any tags. I was unable to do Dodder valley, Tolka Valley, St Catherines or
> Millenium Blanchards town. If you are inclined please do. I propose
> re-tagging any simple grass areas in Estates in South Dublin that I know of
> as landuse=grass unless I hear that is a bad idea and to be avoided? Your
> opinions on the above please.
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[OSM-talk] Doocracy | Re: Idea for improving mapping system

[Rory McCann]

Like mnany things in OSM, the reason it hasn't been done is because no-one has 
actually done it yet. It looks like other people find your idea of "levels" and 
"badges" interesting, so you should try attempt it yourself.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, at 4:31 AM, TheAdventurer64 wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> A user and I were talking about implementing a system for better 
> mapping, as described here: 
> https://osmus.slack.com/archives/C029HV951/p1602968516431900
> This addition would have many benefits, including:
> * More mapping. We have tons of new mappers each day, as well as a 
> great editor for them. However, many of these new mappers leave after 
> just a few edits. Examples: 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lukastheg03
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Th3Roomi3
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[OSM-talk] elaborate? | Re: Examples of good paid mapping?

[Rory McCann]

This thread is literally a request for someone to name one of the companies 
that is "doing it right". 

Yes, people complain more than they compliment. It's alas human nature. This 
thread is an attempt to correct that. So to those saying some companies do it, 
right: Can you please give examples?

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, at 11:57 PM, Bryce Cogswell via talk wrote:
> Exactly. When companies do it right nobody knows they’re doing it. 
> 
> > On Sep 11, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
> > 
> >  Most companies are doing well, and get along well, we just only hear 
> > about the problems. So it’s probably not this or that company to highlight, 
> > but particular mapping projects that illustrate well how it’s done.
> > 
> > Mikel
> > On Friday, September 11, 2020, 3:54 PM, Michał Brzozowski 
> >   
> 
> > wrote:
> 
> >> Hi all,
> >> Do we have any examples of companies that do paid mapping (preferably at 
> >> scale) and do it right?
> >> Maybe leading by example will help other mapping teams get along better 
> >> with local OSM communities?
> >> 
> >> Michał
> >> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Big Blue Button download

[Rory McCann]

Sorry there's nothing from Aug 8th ± a few days.

Did you try to record it on our BBB? or from yourself? By default the server 
isn't going to record anything server side.

On Sat, 19 Sep 2020, at 7:01 AM, Naveen Francis wrote:
> Hello Rory, 
> 
> Can you please see if the video for Aug 8, 2020- 9-10 pm IST is there ?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Virtual_Mappy_Hours
> 
> We will move the videos to our youtube channel 
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu5sKaPU04x0RJkgGkoFORw> .
> 
> 
> thanks,
> naveenpf
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 11:24 PM Rory McCann  wrote:
> > Hi Martijn,
> > 
> > Great to see people using the BBB server. We didn't ask to delete anything, 
> > the video is still there (I sent you the link off-list). When you view the 
> > Room in BBB, you should see “Room Recordings” underneath, which should have 
> > the recordings, do you see that? Then click on “Presentation”, and you 
> > should be able to watch the video in your browser.
> > 
> > In Firefox I can right click on a video and “Save Video As…”, which should 
> > allow you to download the video. Does that work?
> > 
> > Rory
> > 
> > On Wed, 16 Sep 2020, at 4:16 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> > > Hi, 
> > > I recorded a video on the OSMF big blue button server. I think OSMF 
> > > asked to download and delete as quickly as possible to save on storage 
> > > plan costs, but I may be misremembering. Regardless, I don't know how 
> > > to download my own video, can someone explain how that works please?
> > > Many thanks!
> > > -- 
> > >   Martijn van Exel
> > >   m...@rtijn.org
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > 
> > ___
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] some of my inconsistent tagging - cure sought

[Rory McCann]

JOSM's todo list plugin is very helpful here. do up to step 6, then use JOSM's 
find (control-f)  for the `anglican=whatever` tag, add to todo list, then 
iteratively fix each one. Turning on continuous download helps too. You can fix 
up some details as you go.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2020, at 5:55 PM, Donal Hunt wrote:
> I've only found 612 objects...
> 
> 
>1. Open JOSM.
>2. Go to Preferences and ensure "expert mode" is turned on.
>3. Click on "Download data".
>4. Choose "Download from Overpass API"
>5. Enter your query.  e.g. 
> 
>[out:xml][timeout:90];
>{{geocodeArea:Ireland}}->.searchArea;
>(
>  nwr["type"="boundary"]["anglican"="Church Of
>Ireland"](area.searchArea);
>);
>(._;>;);
>out meta;
> 
>6. Download your data.
>7. Select all your data (Ctrl+A).
>8. Find the key that you care about (e.g. "anglican") and then right
>click.
>9. Select "Search key/value".
>10. This gave me 612 objects.
>11. I can then change the name and upload the changes.
> 
> 
> Would be good to validate that the above is correct...
> 
> Donal
> 
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 16:14, Brian Hollinshead 
> wrote:
> 
> > During the lockdown I added a lot of Roman Catholic and Church of Ireland
> > Parishes to OSM.
> > I carelessly described 686 of them as anglican=Church Of Ireland instead of
> > anglican=Church of Ireland.
> >
> > You can see them in overpass using type=boundary and anglican="Church Of
> > Ireland". Is there some way one of you can please easily alter these at one
> > fell swoop?
> >
> > It would be great if you could afterwards then detail the how-to as I have
> > some smaller groups to cure and others besides me might also like to learn
> > this useful skill, but maybe perhaps others don't need it as much as I do!
> > ___
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> > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk] Big Blue Button download

[Rory McCann]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020, at 8:21 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
> Can you confirm that we can leave the recordings on the server and are 
> able to link to the recordings for other sites, like the wiki?

No, you can't rely on it like that. We only have limited storage space. Alas, 
we cannot offer a video hosting service like this. You should use a proper 
service for that.

I merely said that AFAIK, *these* videos hadn't been explicitly deleted.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Big Blue Button download

[Rory McCann]

Hi Martijn,

Great to see people using the BBB server. We didn't ask to delete anything, the 
video is still there (I sent you the link off-list). When you view the Room in 
BBB, you should see “Room Recordings” underneath, which should have the 
recordings, do you see that? Then click on “Presentation”, and you should be 
able to watch the video in your browser.

In Firefox I can right click on a video and “Save Video As…”, which should 
allow you to download the video. Does that work?

Rory

On Wed, 16 Sep 2020, at 4:16 AM, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi, 
> I recorded a video on the OSMF big blue button server. I think OSMF 
> asked to download and delete as quickly as possible to save on storage 
> plan costs, but I may be misremembering. Regardless, I don't know how 
> to download my own video, can someone explain how that works please?
> Many thanks!
> -- 
>   Martijn van Exel
>   m...@rtijn.org
> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Irish Pub preset

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

In case yous missed it, iD v2.18.5 now has a preset (created by yours truly[]1] 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/7852 ) for “Irish Pubs” 
(`theme=irish`). This was deployed on 9th Sept 2020.

And don't worry, the preset is disabled in Ireland to prevent everyone thinking 
everything should be tagged that way.

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/2821

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/efe82822b7b70b3317383e0c3cc8e00422e0e70d/CHANGELOG.md#2185


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Re: [OSM-talk] Annual OSMF General Meeting on Saturday, 12 December 2020, 16:00 UTC

[Rory McCann (OSMF Board)]

Hi all,

Remember, if you have not been an OSMF members for 90 days before the 
election, you are not entitled to vote for the OSMF Board. And that 
deadline is in a day or so.


So, if I've done by maths right, if you're a member on 
2020-09-12T23:59:59Z you can definitely vote, after that, you can't. 
That's about 31 hours from this email.


Countdown timer: 
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=1440=20200912T235959=OSMF%20Membership




On 11.09.20 15:43, Dorothea Kazazi wrote:

Hi all,

The 14th Annual General Meeting of the OpenStreetMap Foundation will be
held online on Saturday, 12 December 2020 at 16:00 UTC.

This meeting will have a board election, with three seats available.
There are seven seats on the foundation board.

Information about email voting and the schedule for those who want to 
run for
the board will be sent in due course. Voting will open one week before 
the AGM.


Reference pages
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meetings/2020
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM20/Election_to_Board

warm greetings,
Dorothea

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[Talk-us] licence? | Re: [Imports] Importing data from alltheplaces.xyz

[Rory McCann]

That site is “A growing set of web scrapers designed to output 
consistent geodata about as many places of business in the world as 
possible.”


I don't think it's CC0 licenced. It's a collection of other databases. 
Have they gotten permission from all the business that they scrape that 
they can licence this resultant data as CC0? I don't think so.


They could claim the data is CC0, or that the moon is made of cheese, 
but that doesn't mean the data is CC0.


I don't think you can import this.

On 22.08.20 14:04, Kun Attila wrote:

Dear OSM community,

I've been mapping Moundsville, WV nowadays (one of my friends live there 
so i chose that location). I'm ottwiz on OSM 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/ottwiz) from Hungary. Sometimes i 
didn't know how to publish imports correctly  from 
https://www.alltheplaces.xyz/( it has CC-0 with waiver license), because 
i never imported anything. I already talked in US slack, and they saw no 
problems with importing these data, just they warned me they can't be 
100% accurate, because the "spider" bot takes the data from websites 
that publish their coordinates on a map, and sometimes it can be like 
100-200 (or more) yards off the place. Without further ado, I only 
imported those which are 100% accurate. (checked on other maps, that's 
why, but of course there is some that is on correct position on Google, 
but not in this database, so i omitted those ones, because taking stuff 
from Google is not complying with OSM rules). I also put a "Taco Bell" 
store, which address is 103 Lafayette Ave, Moundsville, WV 26041. It's 
between two shops (which have 101 and 105 Lafayette Ave respectively), 
so it was easy to guess the location.


It's a thing that I already finished my importing, just someone told me 
if i didn't go to the location, I shouldn't use "survey" for source. OK, 
i got it.
So, if nobody has any questions, i'd leave the already imported stuff 
alone(it's like 15 shops around Lafayette avenue, changesets which 
contain them: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89655873 ; 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/89742498); , and open a case in 
the catalogue and a small wiki page that i did this import on OSM. 
Sorry, just this is my first import, so i didn't know i had to take 
these steps.


Ottwiz


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Re: [Talk-us] Potential Mechanical Edit to remove access=private from Amazon Logistics driveways in NH

[Rory McCann]

I don't map in USA, but when I map driveways in Ireland, I add 
`access=private`. So I agree they should be there.


However, is the data that Amazon added accurate & reliable? If it's of 
very poor standard, then deleting the tag would make OSM better & more 
reliable.


On 17/08/2020 05:33, Skyler Hawthorne wrote:
Was there a previous discussion about this that I can catch up on? 
Driveways seem like access=private is appropriate across the board, not 
just when there is explicit signage. If you drive onto someone's house's 
driveway without permission, you are trespassing on their property.


--
Skyler

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[OSM-talk] wat | Re: Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[Rory McCann]

On 09.08.20 10:25, pangoSE wrote:
I suggest we create a roadmap for deprecating of storing and updating 
names in OSM for objects with a Wikidata tag.


Get rid of the “name” tag(s) in OSM? Absolutely not.

It makes everything massively more complicated, there is very little 
benefit, and Wikidata's CC0 licence allows data to be privatised, unless 
the commons nature of OSM's ODbL.


Why not get rid of the `wikidata` tag and instead merge all wikidata 
attributes into OSM tags instead? Then things become easier to deal with.


Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk] Many processes not defined | Re: Proposal for Software Dispute Resolution Panel

[Rory McCann]

I meant, that the board hasn't decided how the board will 
vote/appoint/choose the members of this panel.


On 05/08/2020 01:07, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Tuesday 04 August 2020, Rory McCann wrote:

The Board hasn't decided on how the panel will be
formed/elected/appointed/choosen.


Quoting from the proposal:


In appointing members of the Panel, the Board shall strive for Panel

composition (membership) that reflects [...]

Seems there are some eddies in the fabric of spacetime...

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[OSM-talk] Many processes not defined | Re: Proposal for Software Dispute Resolution Panel

[Rory McCann]

The Board hasn't decided on how the panel will be 
formed/elected/appointed/choosen. Just because the document doesn't 
address one issue, doesn't mean the opposite, horrible option will 
happen. Do you think I'm going to support some Old Boy's Network of 
corporate employees?


What would you suggest for appointing & transparency?

On 04.08.20 21:30, Christoph Hormann wrote:

On Tuesday 04 August 2020, Dorothea Kazazi wrote:


The OSMF board just published a proposal for a software
dispute resolution panel:
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/08/04/proposal-for-software-dispu
te-resolution-panel/


I guess i am asking too much if i envision the board creating a panel it
does not control itself...

For context - the DWG, which is the traditional and broadly respected
entity to resolve conflicts in mapping, is not controlled in
composition by the board, it decides on accepting new members
themselves.  See also:

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group/DWG_Membership_Policy
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group/DWG_Conflict_of_Interest_Policy

Significant parts of the authority the DWG has among mappers derive from
the fact that it is not composed of political appointees.

Interesting also that the composition of the panel is supposed to
reflect "all interests of the OSM community" but competence of the
panel members on the subject, experience with and knowledge of mapping
and tagging in OSM or in other words:  The competence to assess
evidence on the cases they deal with and to deliberate on the matters
in a qualified and knowledgable way, is not a criterion.  Neither is
impartiality on prominent special interests like those of corporate
data users.

Transparency is limited to the ultimate decisions being made public
(indeed important, would be interesting how this would function
otherwise).  I guess that means both the nominations and selection of
panel members as well as the deliberation and consulting of the panel
on cases is going to happen behind closed doors.



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[OSM-talk] Suggestions welcome | Re: Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

[Rory McCann]

On 02.08.20 01:03, Skyler Hawthorne wrote:
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think using any funds at all to 
continue support for a tool that 1% of editors use would be wasteful. 
Flash is, for all intents and purposes, a dead technology. This money is 
better spent on other uses.


What would you suggest?

Serious question. We're suggesting spending €2,500 on this. Where else 
do you suggest spending €2,500 on?


Rory

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[OSM-talk] Github Issue? Re: more engaging “about” page

[Rory McCann]

I'm sure there are ways for OSM to do better outreach, and that there 
are people who don't realise we would value their contributions.


I think these wordings are set on the openstreetmap-website github 
project ( https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website ), so I 
think you should open a (few) github issues there with those good 
suggestions ( 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/new ). 
Posting to this mailing list as a way to talk to the OSM community is 
certainly a good thing.


(It would be interesting to A/B test wording etc., but that's a larger 
project)


On 27.07.20 17:06, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Looking at

https://www.openstreetmap.org/about

I thought it was not very engaging and we might want to make some small 
adjustments to make it more inviting for people to contribute.


Specifically the paragraph:



Community Driven

OpenStreetMap's community is diverse, passionate, and growing every 
day. Our contributors include enthusiast mappers, GIS professionals, 
engineers running the OSM servers, humanitarians mapping 
disaster-affected areas, and many more. To learn more about the 
community, see the OpenStreetMap Blog 
, user diaries 
, community blogs 
, and the OSM Foundation 
 website.




it points to the official blog, user diaries, community blogs and the 
osmf website.


My suggestion would be to

1. add “people like you, e.g. ” before “enthusiast mappers, GIS 
professionals, ...”  and to


2. add “how to contribute” as link to 
“ https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_to_contribute 
” right after 
“see” and before “the OpenStreetMap blog, user diaries.”


What do you think?

Cheers Martin

sent from a phone

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags without local knowledge in various countries

[Rory McCann]

In addition (I can't find the link now but) I recall reading about the 
death of a hiker or climber who used some app which used OSM data, and 
the app didn't distinguish between track_types (or there was no 
track_type data for that route), so the hiker presumed it was OK to go 
on, and subsequently died.


On 18.07.20 16:01, Andy Townsend wrote:

On 18/07/2020 11:53, Michael Reichert wrote:

I do not believe that one can add reliable tracktype=* information from
satellite imagery without having some ground truth knowledge in order to
know how to interpret the imagery in that region.


I think that "without having some ground truth knowledge" is the key 
part there.  I know from personal experience that if I was to try and 
add tracktype or detailed surface information based purely on imagery 
I'd get it wrong lots of the time.  Very often when I'm updating OSM 
I'll add the details that I recorded while I was there, and look at what 
they say and what it looks like on the available imagery and the two can 
be very different.


Best Regards,

Andy



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[Talk-us] sweat of the brow & sui generis database rights | Re: Interested in importing address points in New York State

[Rory McCann]

On 16/07/2020 13:35, Russell Nelson wrote:
As you say, it's just a listing of facts about the world. At most the 
presentation of them is copyrightable, but as Skyler noted, he's 
changing the presentation.


No license needed for facts.


Remember, that might the law in the USA, but not in the whole world, 
including the UK, where (lots of) the OSM servers & legal body is based, 
which can have the  “sweat of the brow” doctrine, rather than the higher 
 “creativity” requirement. In addition, many countries (incl. EU & UK) 
have “sui generis database rights”, which give copyright like 
protections to collections of facts. OSM uses that legal protection.


Regardless, OSM is not a forum to explore the grey areas of 
international copyright law. If we're not sure, we don't use it! 



Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Does OSM have a similar concept as the "Organisation" from Mappilary?

[Rory McCann]

Hi Bianca.

Welcome to OSM! From an OSM level, no. There are no “organisations”. 
Many people would really want to do it, and some people are working on 
adding that functionality to the OSM website code (“Microcosms”) but 
that hasn't been finished.


It's great that you want to help do a project. Please keep us informed. 
The OSM community has written some guidelines for how to successfully 
run an organisated editing project: 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines


On 07/07/2020 14:37, Bianca Pereira wrote:

Hello,

   New member here :) Apologies in advance if my questions are too naive.

I am organising an initiative to map footpaths around three cities in
Ireland using OSM and Mapillary. In Mapilary we can create an Organisation
as a way to aggregate and visualise all contributions made as part of an
initiative. Is there any way to do the same within OSM?

   I know there is the option to create a task (as in
https://tasks.openstreetmap.ie/) or to include a hashtag within a commit.
But is there any way to retrieve and visualise only the information (nodes,
ways and areas) submitted as part of mapping the task or using the hashtag?

   Best Regards,
   Bianca Pereira
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[OSM-talk-ie] name=Ireland | Re: name=Éire / Ireland

[Rory McCann]

I think `name=Ireland` is best. For `name`, the most commonly used name 
in the place for the thing is what it should be. And, whatever one 
things /should be/ the most common name, I think we can all agree that 
what /is/ the most common name is “Ireland”.


`int_name` is a silly tag. I haven't heard of a good definition of that 
aside from “Name of the country in English”, which wronly prioritises 
English. Why not `int_name=جزيرة أيرلندا`?


On 07/06/2020 16:24, Neil O'Byrne wrote:

The Irish euro coins just have Éire.  So maybe name=Éire and int_name=Ireland

-Original Message-
From: Colm Moore [mailto:colmmoor...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday 7 June 2020 14:56
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] name=Éire / Ireland

Hi,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62273

Someone has set the name of the (Republic of) Ireland to "Éire / Ireland". 
Whatever about Irish constitutional nuances, OSM usually uses one field=one piece of 
data. I'm inclined to change it to name=Ireland, given that Ireland is the name that most 
people use.

Separately, there is the matter of lots of the international translations are of "Republic of 
Ireland" instead of "Ireland". Does anyone have thoughts on how to deal with 
potential grammatical issues in rationalising these?

Colm

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[OSM-talk]  | Re: OSM nicknames are Unicode characters? (not Ascii?)

[Rory McCann]

ha! Awesome!

My OSM username is like that. It's so out there that I am unable to log 
into the OSM Forum, & help.osm.org. When I try to put it on the wiki 
directly, it deletes the whole page. It's great fun.  ⁽¹⁾


It's a nice way to find unicode bugs in OSM software.

(And remember: people can change their usernames)

⁽¹⁾ Much less software broke than I thought.

On 28/05/2020 15:02, mbranco2 wrote:

Hallo,
I was surprised finding an OSM username written in gothic characters: 
I'm not sure if this mailing list could show such font, the 
nickname is 햒햆햘햙햗햔 ("mastro" in normal characters).
The problem is that, if you want to access this user profile, you've to 
copy and paste his name written with such font, searching with 
osm.org/user/mastro  give no results.


Isn't this an anomaly?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Let's talk Attribution

[Rory McCann]

On 02.05.20 16:54, Yves wrote:

IMHO, a a/b/c/d kind of vote like for the last Article of Association
change would be preferable to really have a more representative idea
of the contributor feelings. Could the OSMF set up such a process? 
Some of the attributions cases are certainly simple enough to obtain

a momentum, while others (multiple sources, small maps,...) are more
complicated and could be subject to another round.
The attribution requirement is set out in the ODbL, changing that is not 
straight forward. The OSMF will adopt some Guidelines on how it believes 
one can abide by what the licence says. Even if the Guidelines say “You 
must do X and Y”, the ODbL might be interpreted in a court to say 
something else (weaker or stronger).


The Articles of Association of the OpenStreetMap Foundation don't cover 
the OpenStreetMap licence, changing the AoA doesn't affect the licence. 
In theory the OSM Foundation membership can force the board to do things 
with a “resolution”, which is a sort of “public vote”.


But this is getting side tracked.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Let's talk Attribution

[Rory McCann (OSMF Board)]

On 02.05.20 14:01, Yves wrote:
Could somebody enlight me about the new Attribution Guidelines process? 
How it is envisioned to adopt the document that is currently worked 
upon? A vote, a decision for the board, or else?


The OSMF Board to vote on it/something, making it “The Attribution 
Guidelines of the OSM Foundation”.


Rory

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Re: [Talk-de] Dienste für virtuelle OSM-Stammtische - Datenschutz

[Rory McCann]

On 22.04.20 08:11, Markus via Talk-de wrote:

Zum von der OSMF-gehosteten BBB-System (US?) bin ich unsicher.
(wobei unserer Stammtische ja meist nicht besonders kritisch sind)


Der OSMF BBB Server ist in Frankfurt bei Hetzner gehosted. Es kommt von 
die europaische Firme Collective68 https://cloud68.co/ (aka 
https://collective68.tech/ ). Sie sind active bei Free Software und 
OpenStreetMap.


LG
Rory

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Re: [Diversity-talk] UK Chapter Feedback on Diversity Statement

[Rory McCann]

Yes the diversity statement has been beneficial. Plenty of people from 
marginalized groups have experienced lots of bad things, so one cannot assume 
that everyone agrees 

On 23 April 2020 20:41:05 CEST, "Sören Reinecke via Diversity-talk" 
 wrote:
>___
>Diversity-talk mailing list
>Code of Conduct:
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org

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Re: [Diversity-talk] UK Chapter Feedback on Diversity Statement

[Rory McCann]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the feedback from OSMUK.

The 2nd line of the Diversity Statement says:

We have created this diversity statement because we believe that a diverse OpenStreetMap community is stronger and more vibrant. A diverse community where people treat each other with respect has more potential contributors and more sources for ideas, and will create a better map. 


Which could be read as a “why”. Personally, I view combating 
racism/sexism/bigotry as a moral imperative. Also some OSM groups around 
the world have welcomed the statement.


Just FYI there is no Diversity Working Group, but instead a Special 
Committee. Working Groups are semi-permanent. This mailing list is for 
general interest in OSM & diversity and isn't specifically for the 
Diveristy & Inclusivity Special Committeee (DISCo!)


(Although I am on this list and on the DISCo)

On 19.04.20 22:38, Adam Hoyle wrote:

Hi Diversity Working Group,

I'm writing on behalf of the UK Local Chapter (OSMUK). Regarding the OSM 
Foundation Diversity Statement, we asked our members whether they 
supported the statement and to provide any anonymous feedback which we 
could pass on to the working group.


The result was a broad level of support, with a few points, which I am 
passing to you here:


  I don't personally understand the problems yet and would love to
find out, and increase the size and breadth of the community.


  I support this as it is, on the basis that any pro-diversity
statement is better than none, but I think it's missing some
important points. It says that OSM wants a more diverse community
but not why! And it also fails to say clearly that diversity is
good, and that discrimination is also bad.
I would suggest, for example, adding a new sentence between the
second and third sentences like "We believe that the greater the
diversity in our community, the better OpenStreetMap will be.”


  It's a sad comment on life today that this is even necessary. Also
a policy statement is merely a set of fine words which will remain
empty without an action plan and without an enforcement procedure.


  I also agree with the comment about adding a sentence explaining why.



Best,

Adam

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[Diversity-talk] OSM US is working on their CoC

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I haven't seen this on the list yet, but for those who aren't aware, 
OpenStreetMap US is looking at their Code of Conduct. They have a draft 
replacement, and are soliciting feedback, I think.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/OSM_US_Code_of_Conduct_Draft

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Code_of_Conduct_Committee/ModerationProcess


Rory

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[Talk-us] OEG say so | Re: Taking a break and a call for help

[Rory McCann]

On 22.03.20 01:45, brad wrote:
How can I tell who is a one-edit-and-done spam, amazon logistics 
account, and who is a first edit noob?


The Organised Editing Guidelines do say:


A user’s profile page should also include links to the wiki pages of
the organised edits and organisations they participate in on an
ongoing basis.



https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is not the place for dissemination of authoritative data sets

[Rory McCann]

On 19/03/2020 20:15, Mikel Maron wrote:
This whole thread is blown out of proportion, and rehashing old 
theoretical debates about imports that are more or less resolved in 
practice.


Yes, we have an import guideline. But this thread is from Facebook 
trying to change that. To side step imports.


BTW the Etiqutte guidelines require you to assume all people here are 
operating in good faith 


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is not the place for dissemination of authoritative data sets

[Rory McCann]

On 19/03/2020 17:28, Christoph Hormann wrote:

I think I have said that in the past already:  "Assume good faith" as a
general principle can on OSM only work w.r.t. individuals taking full
and permanant responsibility for their own actions.  There cannot be an
assumption of good faith for inherently amoral corporate entities or
individuals making decisions on behalf of such entities.


Yep.

In addition, an assumption of good faith is a starting point that can be 
disproven by later conduct; it is not a perpetual mandate to be upheld 
even in the face of contrary evidence.


Facebook has been around for 15+ years. The same people are running it. 
We can look at their behaviour, at what they do, and predict what 
they're likely to do in the future.


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Re: [OSM-talk] #AttributionIsNotOptional experiment on OSM France tile servers

[Rory McCann]

Hi Christian,

That's a interesting approach, and interesting to see that it gets results.

If you think it's too rude, or aggressive, you should remember that 
polite words sometimes don't work. If you don't like people shouting at 
you, then it's your fault for ignoring them when they speak calmly. 
Don't complain when this is the only resort that works.


Most of the complaints about missing OSM attribution don't come from 
people using osm.org tile servers. So I'm not sure if doing it on 
OSM.org is very useful. Never the less, there might be benefit in OSM 
taking the next level of action for our attribution. Concerns about 
libelling/defaming someone are legitimate. We don't want to cause much 
more headaches for ourselves.


Rory

On 08/03/2020 10:14, Christian Quest wrote:

Here is a hort report on this experiment...

I started a week ago by searching OSM France tile server logs for 
referer and checked manually if the map on the refering page was 
correctly attributed.


This allowed me to create a short list of 20 entries of sites using the 
french styled tiles and the humanitarian tiles (yes, it is made by OSM 
France).



I then modified our nginx based proxy_cache configuration, to redirect 
some tiles to an "attribution tile" only for the domain in the list.


For two of them, I tweeted about it... the most visible one is the 
moroco yellow page service, generating a little less than a million 
daily tile requests on our servers.


https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234516075695525888

In less than 24 hours, the attribution appeared and I removed them from 
the list.


https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234779931537739776


Then I included an email address in the attribution reminder tile... and 
got emails back within a few hours.


Some were asking how to do the attribution, others telling me the 
attribution was now ok and asking how to remove the reminder tiles.


In my answers, I also remind that our tile service made by volunteers on 
donated hardware is not unlimited and inviting them to have a look at 
switch2osm to setup their own tile server or use a commercial provider.


Up to now, nobody complained :)


Yesterday, I've started automating attribution checking using selenium. 
For each referer, a python script loads the page, searches for tiles, 
then looks for attribution text or link. The result is stored in a 
postgresql database which allows to group referers by url, hostname and ip.


The attribution percentage I currently see is around 70-80% which is not 
that bad.


My next major step is to use the same technique to remind about tile 
usage policy...



To do something similar on osm.org, a first step is to extract referers 
from the cache logs, then use the automated attribution check to 
evaluate the situation.



Le 08/03/2020 à 01:52, Nuno Caldeira a écrit :
That would be a good option for those that use third party providers 
of OSM. But to be honest, from my experience I highly doubt that even 
corporate members of OSMF, like Mapbox would do it, when their client 
Facebook (also corporate member of OSMF) after one year and half, 
still has maps with lack of attribution or attributed to HERE, when 
it's clearly OSM.


On Sun, 8 Mar 2020, 00:46 Phil Wyatt, > wrote:


I am sure others may have seen this 'blacklist' implementation for
showing a reminder about attribution.

https://twitter.com/cq94/status/1234528717604577282

Worthy of consideration for openstreetmap.org
?

Cheers - Phil


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] The benefits of cross-linking OSM and Wikidata

[Rory McCann]

On 05/03/2020 15:25, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
> couldn't we do a vote about that? Would it be possible for the OSMF to
> maintain and coordinate such a voting.

Yes, we _could_.

It would require a 2/3 majority of “active [OSM] contributors”, which is 
(intentionally) a large number (about 250,000 at the time of writing). 
I'm sorry, but a licence change to remove the share alike part of the 
OSM licence has microscopic chance of passing... You'll just have to 
accept it.


https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms

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[OSM-talk-ie] opening_hours=sunrise-sunset | Re: How to tag gates to public parks that are only open during daylight hours

[Rory McCann]

Hi Neil,

This sounds like an `opening_hours` tag on the gate, and as Dave 
correctly points out, probably on the park as well (presuming that _all_ 
gates to the park are like this).


The opening_hours syntax is very powerful. You can put 
`sunrise`/`dawn`/`dusk`/`sunset` instead of hours. There are currently 
7,500 things in OSM with `opening_hours=sunrise-sunset`.


Rory

On 05.03.20 01:13, Dave Corley wrote:

Hi Neil,

I'm not sure about the moderator approval but it's possible that was
because you hadn't registered for the mailing list maybe.

As for your tagging question, the gate is tagged as barrier=gate as per the
page below

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dgate

With the restriction tagged using the access key per the below page,
specifically the access time section.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Alternatively you could map the gate and then simply add opening hours to
the park itself, might be a simpler solution and one that is a lot easier
to understand from an end user perspective

Hope that helps

Dave

On Wed 4 Mar 2020, 23:13 Neil O'Byrne,  wrote:


At the end of January I posted a message on Talk-ie on how to tag gates to
public parks that are only open during daylight hours, i.e. not on a fixed
weekly or monthly time schedule. I got a return email that my message to
Talk-ie awaits moderator approval.  I've received no message  since and I
am
still unclear on how to tag gates to public parks open during daylight
hours
only or if my message was reviewed and not approved.





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[OSM-talk] How to map an OpenStreetMap map?

[Rory McCann]

In OSM, large map boards can be mapped as 
`tourist=information,information=map`. OSM is 
pretty good quality, so now some of these maps are based on OSM data.

Is there anyway to record this in OSM?

IMO, you don't need a reason to map something, but one benefit is to help 
people promote OSM. If someone thinks you have a weird hobby with this map 
thing, and you bring them to big map showing our map, then that's pretty cool. 

The `map_type` and `map_size` tags are used on these sort of maps. Do yous 
think `map_source=openstreetmap` is a good tag?
The long standing OSM convention of semicolons can be used if there's more than 
one source. 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Rory McCann]

Isn't this the job of the editing software (incl it's presets)? If there's a 
search box and the user can type in (eg) "path" and draw the path, then that's 
how you teach newbies? 

Has this user tried to use iD (the best new user friendly editor today) to do 
this? Does that do the job? If not, I'm sure everyone, incl id devs, would like 
to know.  

On 22 February 2020 05:37:13 CET, Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
 wrote:
>Is there some automatically generated website 
>describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>
>Something directed to a potential mappers, 
>explicitly describing every single smallest step,
>for every single mappable feature.
>
>I ask as I had again a friend asking me 
>"how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>
>And it seems to me that automatically generated 
>set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.

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[OSM-talk] IME no proposals needed | Re: Creation of "Data Items" by bot for undocumented tags

[Rory McCann]

I don't know what your experience with the OSM wiki is, but I've created new 
wiki pages for new tags, without bothering with proposal pages. When has anyone 
told you that you need to do that? Did someone write that down somewhere? Maybe 
that should be corrected. Do you have links to where you saw that "rule"? 

To anyone reading this who is unsure, please feel free to edit the wiki.  We 
don't have this silly rules requiring proposal pages (as many have pointed 
out). 

(I also don't like making the wiki hard to edit for non technical people. Think 
of the diversity concerns! ) 

On 19 February 2020 00:14:21 CET, Yuri Astrakhan  
wrote:
>It is very strange that we, on one hand, allow anyone to create any
>kind of
>tags (just type it in), and on the other we create so many hurdles to
>document it (we refuse to allow a wiki page about an item, but instead
>demand that each key page go through a proposals process, approve it,
>etc).  I believe this is a ridiculous situation solvable with the data
>items.  If I, the editor, create a new tag, I should have a way to type
>in
>a short textual description (one/two sentences) explaining what that
>tag
>is.  Without knowing how to create wiki pages or data item pages or
>using
>the right templates, or even knowing which fields to fill out where.
>Data
>items allow for that.
>
>When a data item is created automatically, it makes the process of
>adding
>such documentation very straightforward -- e.g. if one uses iD editor,
>they
>simply expand the (i) button next to the tag, click edit, and type in
>the
>description.
>
>Moreover, it should be possible to do so directly from iD, without
>going to
>another page. The eventual goal is to make it simple to add such
>descriptions __without__ leaving the current editing tool (iD/JOSM/...)
>and
>without visiting the wiki.  These tools will be able to view other
>metadata
>as well -- e.g. if this tag should be usable on a way/node in a
>consistent
>way, regardless of the language of the user.
>
>On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 5:54 PM Andrew Hain
>
>wrote:
>
>> I strongly disagree.
>>
>> It is perfectly useful to document the existence of tags in the
>database
>> with data items. For example one was created for the key sub_sea:type
>[
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q4506] and it has been
>possible
>> to add this it is a discardable tag that the main OSM editors remove
>when
>> editing. While it is possible in principle to add a long form tag
>> documentation page, and indeed the presence of the data item is a
>record
>> that one may be worth writing, it needs a different set of skills to
>> research its content. As such the data item and others like it are
>useful
>> on their own.
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> --
>> *From:* Joseph Eisenberg 
>> *Sent:* 18 February 2020 17:28
>> *To:* osm 
>> *Subject:* [OSM-talk] Creation of "Data Items" by bot for
>undocumented
>> tags
>>
>> Data Items should not be created by bot for undocumented tags.
>>
>> According to
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_items#Item_Creation_Process
>> the Data Items (aka "Wikibase" or "Wiki Data items") are
>automatically
>> created by a bot, even before a tag is documented, if a tag has a
>> certain standard format and more than 10 uses in the database.
>>
>> The data item is created in this case with the text "‎Created a new
>> Item: Auto-updating from Wiki pages" - e.g.
>>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q19947=history
>>
>> This is confusing to users. For example, Item:Q19947 above,
>> "landuse=research" was created before there was a wiki page. Then
>> yesterday a user documented the tag with a page, but did not
>> understand why there was already a data item:
>>
>> "Wikibase entry: evidence for preceding deletion? I've just created
>> landuse=research, but the data item
>>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Item:Q19947=history
>> was already existing in December '19. How was the data item then
>> created?"
>>
>>
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki=#Wikibase_entry:_evidence_for_preceding_deletion.3F
>>
>> Besided the potential confusion caused by creating these items by
>> bots, I think it is a bad idea to encourage wiki users to start
>> editing these data items without first creating an actual
>> human-readable wiki page to document the tag.
>>
>> In theory, the "Data Items" can be useful if they properly document
>> how tags are used, in a way that is easier for computers to handle,
>> but this only works if the data is maintained and updated.
>>
>> Creating a new wiki page (by human) will alert other users via
>> "Special:Recent" and "Special:NewPages", while the stream of items
>> created by bots is too much for humans to maintain, and the page
>names
>> are too obscure (Item: Q19947 is meaningless) to be scanned by
>humans.
>>
>> Therefore, I propose that Yurikbot be changed to only add new data
>> items for documented tags which already have a wiki page in 

[OSM-talk] For the sake of peace | Re: Cease use of OpenStreetMap/Antifa logo

[Rory McCann]

In order to keep the peace, I'll voluntarily delete that image from the 
OSM Wiki (as best I can). But the file is out there in the wild, you 
can't stop the internet.


I am only a random person at a keyboard, I'm too much of a wuss to throw 
stones at cops, I'm not a black block antifa protester! But (IMO) there 
is a problem today with the rise of xenophobia, of queerphobia, etc. I 
made this logo partially for fun, but also one way to oppose that hate. 
To me, it's more than just "for the lulz". Perhaps, in my original 
reply, I appeared too flippant. I make use of emoijis to convey tone, 
which is often lost in text.  means I want to be friendly.


To me, it's obvious that an OSM based logo doesn't mean OSM is 100% the 
same as that thing. If I make an OSM mash up, I can still see you as a 
fellow OSMer even if you don't agree with what that logo represents. The 
existence of an OSM cycling logo doesn't mean all OSMers have to be 
cycling activists! But perhaps that was not communicated well. I hope 
the community can figure out how to make that clear.


“Keep politics out of OSM” sounds nice, but I question what “politics” 
means here. It's often used only for feminism/pro-LGBTQ/anti-racism (and 
rarely mentioned when a copyright law changes). I think “politics” is 
too ambiguous to be useful when we talk to each other.


For those who see this logo as an OSM/OSMF endorsement, I'd like to see 
an OSM logo remix which, to them, doesn't imply endorsement, so I (and 
others) can design future logo remixes without implying endorsement. I 
never intended, or what to, imply OSMF endorsement, and I would like to 
know how to avoid that.



Let's get back to mapping the world.


Rory

On 13/02/2020 23:01, Rory McCann wrote:


Hello fellow OSMers! 

So this is from me. Last year I made some mashups of the OSM logo. There
is often a lot of big business presence at tech/FLOSS conferences now,
so I thought “What would be the opposite of that?” I am pretty lefty,
and I do like OSM's anarchistic/do-ocracy/flat/non-hierarchical
tradition anyway. So I ordered these stickers for a laugh, and they (&
the LGBTQ designs) were quite popular.

I don't believe it breeches the OSMF Trademark policy. §3.5 allows
remixed logos for user group logos. §3.2 & §3.4 allow the use of
stickers. (There is plenty of other examples of OSM trademark use BTW
) I thought it was clear that it didn't reflect OSMF policy, but I'm
sure I can communicate that better, to avoid all doubt. Mea Culpa. §2.2
of the Trademark policy does require a more explicit notice, which I've
now added to the wiki page. §2.3 says I shouldn't suggest OSMF
endorsement, and I don't want to suggest, or imply, OSMF affiliation or
endorsement!  I've added a message the wiki page for that image. Do
you think that suffices?

Yes, by definition all democratic societies are "anti-fascist", but even
I know the logo is more than just "anti-fascist", and... controversial. 

_However_ I need to think on this. We have a lot of work to do. We have
a whole world to map. I don't want everyone to fight, or external people
to get mistaken ideas about OSM.  Someone might have a false idea of
one thing, and (falsely) think all of OSM is like that.

That can go both ways: Right wing, bigoted, politicians sometimes claim
"antifa are violent terrorists" (cf. Trump after the Charlottesville
rally). “OSM doesn't have a Code of Conduct, and they just banned the
antifa logo saying it's a horrible violent organization!” could make
some marginalized groups (falsely) think OSM is full of a certain type
of hostile person!

As well as OSM being inherently political, "No politics" can (in
practice) translate to "Don't act gay, and people are allowed be
homophobic to you and you can't complain" (etc). If you think it's OK
for people to act gay/etc in an OSM event, then a "no politics" rule
communicates quite the opposite (alas). IMO you should rephrase.

Yes, the OSM community/OSMF should think about what kinds of (political)
issues we should (& shouldn't) get involved with, and what should be in
our spaces. (hey... maybe there should be some sort of code of how you
can conduct yourself in OSM spaces 樂)

So I need to think. My email inbox is open if anyone wants to give
suggestions/(confidential?) advice/tell me to knock it off/tell me to
keep going. Just cause something is legal, or within the trademark
policy, doesn't mean it's always a good idea. 


Yours, in mapping,

Rory


P.S.: For the avoidance of doubt: I paid for all these myself. This
email (& the logo) represent my personal opinions, not those of the OSMF
board, the OSMF, the OSM project, etc. I paid for these myself. These
stickers are not part of the newly founded CWG's promotional material
programme. I designed & got them well before I thought about running
for the board.

On 10.02.20 16:57, Midgard wrote:

Hi,

Someone created a

[OSM-talk] 1e7 | Re: OTG rule, borders & mountains existing | Re: Crimea situation - on the ground

[Rory McCann]

On 13/02/2020 00:15, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Il giorno 13 feb 2020, alle ore 00:05, Colin Smale  ha 
scritto:

Locations are stored in OSM as pairs of {lat,lon} and I assume these are both 
64-bit floats in the database.



AFAIK they are stored as integers (shifting the decimals)


They are stored with 7 places of decimals (i.e. multiple by 1e7).

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Node

Do not use IEEE 32-bit floating point data type since it is limited
to about 5 decimal places for the highest longitude.

>

A 32-bit method used by the Rails port is to use an integer (by
multiplying each coordinate in degrees by 1E7 and rounding it: this
allows to cover all absolute signed coordinates in ±214.7483647
degrees, or a maximum difference of 429.4967295 degrees, a bit more
than what is needed).

For computing projections, IEEE 64 bit floating points are needed for
intermediate results.

>

The 7 rounded decimal places for coordinates in degrees define the
worst error of longitude to a maximum of ±5.56595 millimeters on the
Earth equator, i.e. it allows building maps with centimetric
precision. With only 5 decimal places, the precision of map data
would be only metric, causing severe changes of shapes for important
objects like buildings, or many zigzags or angular artefacts on
roads.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Cease use of OpenStreetMap/Antifa logo

[Rory McCann]

Hello fellow OSMers! 

So this is from me. Last year I made some mashups of the OSM logo. There
is often a lot of big business presence at tech/FLOSS conferences now,
so I thought “What would be the opposite of that?” I am pretty lefty,
and I do like OSM's anarchistic/do-ocracy/flat/non-hierarchical
tradition anyway. So I ordered these stickers for a laugh, and they (&
the LGBTQ designs) were quite popular.

I don't believe it breeches the OSMF Trademark policy. §3.5 allows
remixed logos for user group logos. §3.2 & §3.4 allow the use of
stickers. (There is plenty of other examples of OSM trademark use BTW
) I thought it was clear that it didn't reflect OSMF policy, but I'm
sure I can communicate that better, to avoid all doubt. Mea Culpa. §2.2
of the Trademark policy does require a more explicit notice, which I've
now added to the wiki page. §2.3 says I shouldn't suggest OSMF
endorsement, and I don't want to suggest, or imply, OSMF affiliation or
endorsement!  I've added a message the wiki page for that image. Do
you think that suffices?

Yes, by definition all democratic societies are "anti-fascist", but even
I know the logo is more than just "anti-fascist", and... controversial. 

_However_ I need to think on this. We have a lot of work to do. We have
a whole world to map. I don't want everyone to fight, or external people
to get mistaken ideas about OSM.  Someone might have a false idea of
one thing, and (falsely) think all of OSM is like that.

That can go both ways: Right wing, bigoted, politicians sometimes claim
"antifa are violent terrorists" (cf. Trump after the Charlottesville
rally). “OSM doesn't have a Code of Conduct, and they just banned the
antifa logo saying it's a horrible violent organization!” could make
some marginalized groups (falsely) think OSM is full of a certain type
of hostile person!

As well as OSM being inherently political, "No politics" can (in
practice) translate to "Don't act gay, and people are allowed be
homophobic to you and you can't complain" (etc). If you think it's OK
for people to act gay/etc in an OSM event, then a "no politics" rule
communicates quite the opposite (alas). IMO you should rephrase.

Yes, the OSM community/OSMF should think about what kinds of (political)
issues we should (& shouldn't) get involved with, and what should be in
our spaces. (hey... maybe there should be some sort of code of how you
can conduct yourself in OSM spaces 樂)

So I need to think. My email inbox is open if anyone wants to give
suggestions/(confidential?) advice/tell me to knock it off/tell me to
keep going. Just cause something is legal, or within the trademark
policy, doesn't mean it's always a good idea. 


Yours, in mapping,

Rory


P.S.: For the avoidance of doubt: I paid for all these myself. This
email (& the logo) represent my personal opinions, not those of the OSMF
board, the OSMF, the OSM project, etc. I paid for these myself. These
stickers are not part of the newly founded CWG's promotional material
programme. I designed & got them well before I thought about running
for the board.

On 10.02.20 16:57, Midgard wrote:

Hi,

Someone created a mashup[1] between the logos of OpenStreetMap and Antifa, a 
collective of militant
groups which are known to use violence. This graphic is distributed on 
stickers.[2]

I'm asking to cease use of this logo.

I think it's a bad idea to create material that associates OpenStreetMap with 
political groups.
I suspect there are also trademark issues with the mashup.

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:2019_OSM_Anarchist_Antifa_logo.svg
[2] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Promotional_Material_Programme#Swag_from_Individual_OSMers

Kind regards,
Midgard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea situation - on the ground

[Rory McCann]

On 08.02.20 12:01, Colin Smale wrote:
Absolutely. But we should document our sources! Basic rule of research. 
And if we choose to promote one alternative above the others, we are 
skating on thin ice.


IMO, the "alternative" OSM promotes is "what's on the ground". Let's 
nail our colours to the mast. IMO this is our (long standing) standard. 
In theory, we don't need to provide documentation, because, in theory, 
other mappers can "go there" and "look" at it first hand themselves.


Have we actually asked the people of Crimea 
first-hand what they think? No=>it's someones opinion.


My example of "asking people on the ground" is for city names. 
`admin_level=2` border (IMO) means (except here) "what country 
physically controls the area".


Is there anyone who actually doesn't think Russia currently _does_ 
control the area? Anyone in Crimea, in Ukraine, in Russia, who doesn't 
think that? I don't think so. (whether you think Russia _should_ control 
it or not). I suspect Ukrainian police don't go into Crimea today, 
showing a certain level of knowledge of who actually controls the area 
now


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[OSM-talk] OSM/LondonOSM | Re: Crimea situation - on the ground

[Rory McCann]

On 07.02.20 20:22, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:

(e.g. two fairly large groups of people could refer to the same
place/object by different names). ... the map should be able to
reflect difference of opinions to some "reasonable" degree (an
intentionally vague term).
One useful example of that is a city in the north west of the island of 
Ireland, called (in English) either Derry or Londonderry. Everyone 
agrees on the Irish name (`name:ga`) (
gaDoire
). OSM's 
multilingual tagging scheme, but for dialects, are used to differentiate 
the Hiberno-English (en_IE) name (
en-IEDerry
) from the 
British-English (en_GB) term (
en-GBLondonderry
). The `name` 
tag uses the commonly used compromise. That approach could work for 
other areas.


RFC 1766 (for IETF language tags) appears to allow quite detailed 
specification of languages & areas, and could be useful.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/267762522
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1766
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag

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[OSM-talk] OTG rule, borders & mountains existing | Re: Crimea situation - on the ground

[Rory McCann]

On 07.02.20 20:12, stevea wrote:

A well-known example is (national, other) boundaries, which
frequently do not exist "on the ground,"

National borders don't exist on the ground? huh? Have you ever actually
_crossed_ an international border? I assure you they exist on the
ground. From large infrastructure, to changes in the paint colour on
roads, one can nearly always *see* where a border is.


Other examples include large bodies of water and mountain ranges.
I've lived on the Pacific coast most of my life and been to dozens of
beaches, but never once on any beach have I seen a sign which reads
"Pacific Ocean."  Same with no signs at the edge of or in the middle
of "Rocky Mountains" or "The Alps."  (I've been, and I haven't seen).
Yet, OSM maps oceans and mountain ranges.  How do we know their names
without anything on the ground?
We ask people there. We look at books, at maps, at whether there is a 
detailed Wikipedia article on the topic, do are travel books published 
that refer to this area as that, do organisations that cover that area 
use that term. We look to see if the name is _used in reality_.


That's the "on the ground rule". IMO "on the ground" refers to 
"observable reality".


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Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea situation - on the ground

[Rory McCann]

It is true that government A might have one opinion, and government B 
might have another, and Provisional Autonomous Republic of C might have 
another opinion.


But there can be another way. We go there, and we see what nearly 
everyone there calls it. We look at the words on the signs. We look at 
the name of the organisations based there (“Transport for London”). We 
walk down the street and ask 100 people what the name of this city is. 
We listen into conversations there, and see if there's a majority name 
that people use when they talk to each other about the city


And the answer to that is “London”.

In OSM, we could tag that "the opinion of the UK government is that this 
city is called London", and "the opinion of the French government is 
that this this city is called Londres", and "the commonly used name for 
this city by the vast majority of people who live there is London".


We should map the third option with the `name` tag.

On 07.02.20 20:56, Colin Smale wrote:
Many things we think of as "facts" are in fact somewhat subjective. 
Things have a name or some attribute "according to" some authority. 
London "is not" London, it is "called" London according to local people, 
government etc. But the same place is "called" Londres, according to a 
different authority, namely French-speakers; both points of view are 
equally valid, but only within their intended context.


In the case of Crimea, two different authorities have different views of 
the jurisdiction to which it belongs. That is a fact, that we can safely 
map. We can represent the border in one place "according to Russia" and 
in another place "according to Ukraine" without taking sides. It is then 
down to the renderer/consumer which source is preferred. If we don't 
stop taking sides, well, we are taking sides - whatever our arguments to 
support our choice. We will never "win" that one.


I am applying a bit of data management here; every data item should have 
a provenance, value domain, validity period etc. The "truth" is always 
only relative to a particular frame of reference.


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[OSM-talk] Want some OSM Swag/Stickers? New Promotional Material Programme

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

As some know, the Communications WG is trying to get better at helping 
promote OpenStreetMap. Over the past few months, I've sent out lots of 
stickers. Here's details of the new Promotional Material Programme.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Promotional_Material_Programme

If you organize events, or are a local chapter, please contact the CWG ( 
communicat...@osmfoundation.org ), and we'll try to send you some swag.


Please feel free to translate wiki page to other languages. 

As time goes on, I hope there are more, and different types of, swag we 
can send. So watch this space! 


Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk] changing tables for adults

[Rory McCann]

On 22/01/2020 10:31, Holger Dieterich wrote:
> I suggest to use this new tag to describe changing places which are
> specifically made to be suitable for adults:
> *
> *
> *changing_table:suitableforadults=yes/no*

I think `changing_table:adult=yes/no` reads better, it's the same 
meaning, but less verbose & wordy.


It's great to have this sort of data in OSM. 

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[OSM-talk] New tool to convert OSM (history) tagging data to CSV

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I've made a tool to convert OSM data to CSV, aimed for history files but 
works on all PBFs, making one CSV row per tag change:


https://github.com/rory/osm-tag-csv-history

CSV is a very popular format, and lots of other programmes can use it. I 
hope this tool helps new people explore OSM data, and how OSM data 
changes, and how people are mapping, and that it opens up OSM data 
analysis to more people


I've lots of experience with unix shell commands, so here's how to use 
this data & bash shell to figure things out:


Who's changing `building=yes` to something else:

osm-tag-csv-history -i data.osh.pbf -o - --no-header | grep -P 
'^building,[^,]+,yes,' | xsv select 8 | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | tail 
-n 20


To look at all the edits that a user has made, to see what sort of thing 
they map:


osm-tag-csv-history -i data.osh.pbf -o data.csv.gz
zcat data.csv.gz | xsv search -s username "^USERNAME$"

You could also see who's adding certain types of features. More 
information here: https://github.com/rory/osm-tag-csv-history


--
Rory

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[OSM-talk] New Telegram chat for OSM + LGBTQIA*

[Rory McCann]

Hello all,

A new Telegram group has been set up: “RainbOSM”. A chat about LGBTQIA* 
issues and OpenStreetMap. 


Join here: https://t.me/joinchat/BDLI7xMzuF5TRZ5lwLYxkA

--
R

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[Diversity-talk] New Telegram chat for OSM + LGBTQIA*

[Rory McCann]

Hello all,

A new Telegram group has been set up: “RainbOSM”. A chat about LGBTQIA* 
issues and OpenStreetMap. 


Join here: https://t.me/joinchat/BDLI7xMzuF5TRZ5lwLYxkA

--
R

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[Diversity-talk] +100 & tagging? | Re: LGBT spaces and HIV facilities Mapathon

[Rory McCann]

Hi Mikko,

This is a great initiative.  Alas I'm far away from the Philippines, 
so I can't take part.


Can you tell us more about the tagging scheme you're using? How are you 
mapping things?


On 09/01/2020 09:46, Mikko Tamura wrote:
In the Philippines, we will be conducting an LGBT spaces and HIV 
facilities Mapathon in Cebu City, Cebu schedule on March 14. This will 
be hosted by MapBeks which is an online community of LGBT volunteers 
advocating for representation of LGBT spaces on OSM. We are still 
looking for support and possible partners to make this happen. 
Currently, we were able to reach and partner with ReasonForLiving, HOT 
Philippines, AidVocate, and various LGBT groups.


If ever you are in the Philippine by that time, we would totally 
appreciate this.

--
*
*
*
*
*MIKKO L. TAMURA*
/*Administrator*/
/Map Beks Initiative/
/
/
/*Externals Head*/
/Pilipinas Chubs X Chasers/
/
/
/*Volunteer Mapper*/
/OpenStreetMap Philippines/
*Contact Number: +639052320416*


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[Diversity-talk] Yes, this CoC can look at behaviour on twitter | Re: Diversity 2020 Article

[Rory McCann]

Hi all!

I am your friendly admin of this mailing list, which has a CoC (link in 
 footer of all emails).


On 08/01/2020 05:17, Marc Gemis wrote:
Would a Code of Conduct also apply to social media that are not 
controlled by OSM/OSMF? E.g. Twitter is currently used by a certain 
part of the community to ridicule and criticize people writing on

the mailing lists.
For the record, the CoC for this list applies to regular social media, 
like Twitter. If you make racist (etc.) comments on public forums like 
that, then you can be banned from this list. If you see someone doing 
that, please feel free to email the mods at 
diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org


There are several different styles of CoCs. They aren't all the same. 
This CoC does not ban general incivility, you can swear on twitter (I 
do). If you rudely, or civilly, promote sexism (etc), then you may be 
removed from this list. Different spaces may have different CoCs.


Here are some quotes from our CoC:


The diversity-talk moderators reserve the right not to act on
complaints regarding:

• Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,”
  “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you.”
• Communicating in a ‘tone’ you don’t find congenial
• Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive
  behavior or assumptions
...
This code of conduct applies to the diversity-talk mailing list, but
if you are being harassed by a member of the diversity-talk mailing list
outside our spaces, we still want to know about it. We will take all
good-faith reports of harassment by diversity-talk mailing list members,
especially diversity-talk moderators/admins, seriously. This includes
harassment outside our spaces and harassment that took place at any
point in time. The abuse team reserves the right to exclude people from
the diversity-talk mailing list based on their past behavior, including
behavior outside the diversity-talk mailing list and behavior towards
people who are not on the diversity-talk mailing list.


On 08/01/2020 07:37, Clifford Snow wrote:

we should focus on what we have influence over


Correct. We do not have control over what someone does on Twitter/etc.
But we have control over who is a member of this mailing list.

As always, I am willing to have a good faith conversation in private 
with any OSMer about CoCs & “diversity” if they don't like what they 
hear. Maybe I can change your mind. Maybe you can change my mind. Maybe 
this topic is misunderstood.



--
Rory

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[OSM-talk] Too subjective & problematic Re: no-go-areas

[Rory McCann]

This topic has come up before, and unfortunately when you think about 
it, there is no objective way to define a "no go area". It's all 
subjective. So it doesn't belong in OSM.


People do live in many of these areas, so software that didn't route 
in/through these areas would be pretty bad for people who need to go there!


Plus, "no go areas" are often correlated with where ethnic minorities or 
different classes live, which is not good.


On 31.12.19 16:14, Martin Trautmann wrote:

hi all,

did you read about the Suisse tourist couple which was shot because they
got lost in a Brasilian favela?

NZZ (Neue Zürcher Zeitung) from Tuesday 31.12.2019. ("Schweizer Ehepaar
bei Irrfahrt duch Favela in Brasilien
angeschossen")

Other examples are e.g. Mafia areas within Kosovo - or name your own
home town no-go area.

Is there any option to mark certain areas in order to bypass routing
whenever possible?


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[Diversity-talk] Fwd: Creating an "Organization of Cartographers for Social Equality" map with OpenStreetMap

[Rory McCann]

Might be interesting to some

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Creating an "Organization of Cartographers for 
Social Equality" map with OpenStreetMap

Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 09:23:39 +
From: Andy Mabbett 
To: OSM talk mailing list 

This blog post, by my friend Terrence Eden, may be of interest; he
includes a request for assistance near the end:


https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2019/11/creating-an-organization-of-cartographers-for-social-equality-map-with-openstreetmap/

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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[OSM-talk] Licence of Facebook's derived road datasets? ODbL?

[Rory McCann]

Hello all,

Facebook provide download dumps of their machine detected roads on a
country by country basis¹. It's great to see direct access to this data,
allowing us to look at that data without having to use a raw API. Well
done Facebook.

That webpage says the data is MIT licenced (_data_ under MIT is odd, but
whatever). The files are zipfiles with a licence file also saying MIT.
The description is “Country exports contain only the AI predicted roads
that are missing from OpenStreetMap”. That makes me think this data is a
dervived database of OSM, and hence should be ODbL.

If Facebook (or anyone) generate a road dataset, which we'll call D1,
from running their machine learning/neural network programme on aerial
imagery, and then removes roads from D1 which are in OSM, creating
dataset D2, then surely D2 is a “derived database” of OSM, and hence
ODbL requires D2 to also be ODbL, right? OSM data was used in the
creation of D2. To me D1 is “raw data derived from aerial imagery”, but
D2 is “raw data dervived from aerial imagery, plus OSM data”?

I asked if it should be ODbL, and Facebook reported that their legal
team believe MIT is correct².


We are extracting the data from Maxar satellite images (you can
learn about all the details from our publications) and our legal team
 believes this is the correct license. I am not planning to comment 
on the legal issues further; thank you for your curiosity.


A Facebook employee, long time OSMer, and fellow candidate for the OSMF
board, answered the same way³.

Good question Rory. That data is not derived from OSM. It’s just the 
raw road geometry inferences from aerial imagery.


The history of Facebook & OSM hasn't been 100% smooth sailing, and it
would be unfortunate if Facebook were to not obey the share-alike aspect
of our licence. I think we all agree that if FB released it under ODbL,
then everyone would be happy, and I urge them to do that.

Or am I missing something? Someone with more legal or licence knowledge
please correct me (or confirm I'm right)!

Rory


¹ 
https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/wiki/Available-Countries

² https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/issues/7
³ https://osmus.slack.com/archives/CK3BZ8FC0/p1573224740019300

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[OSM-talk] Changing OSM Username is easy | Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

[Rory McCann]

On 03/11/2019 19:19, Blake Girardot wrote:

I am not happy about it and I could get my osm username changed

> ...
> If you have a username that is tied to a public or other used name of
> some sort, my advice is to ask the user name to be changed.

Just for anyone who wants to do this, changing your OSM username is very 
easy, it's the in the “My Settings” page when you log in and click on 
the drop down in the top right, and is the “Display Name” field. You'll 
have to re-log into all apps. You don't have to ask anyone. It happens 
immediately.



that is not really adequate as anyone who has a record of my username
and osm userid number over the past 10 years, can still select all of
my edits.


Yep, a person's edits can still be tracked through the uid which cannot 
be changed, so this isn't something that works.


Creating a new account is a much better approach.

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[OSM-talk] Geofabrik Download server maintains privacy | Re: Maintaining privacy as a casual mapper

[Rory McCann]

On 03.11.19 11:42, Philippe Latulippe wrote:

Are there better ways to maintain some privacy while editing the map?
Are there some tools? Or is there a way to make edits in a way that
doesn't reveal my username to regular users?


It might interest you to know that on the Geofabrik download server ( 
https://download.geofabrik.de/ ), the public files don't have usernames, 
user ids, or changeset ids, to preserve privacy. Some use cases need 
this detail, which is available under stricter conditions with an 
OpenStreetMap login account ( https://osm-internal.download.geofabrik.de/ ).


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[OSM-talk-ie] theme it is for me then | Re: How to map Irish pubs?

[Rory McCann]

On 09/10/2019 00:14, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> 8 Oct 2019, 23:43 by t4d...@gmail.com:
>> This doesn't directly solve the problem, but you could use the
>> brand tag and put in the Guinness and other drinks that are
>> traditionally in an Irish pub if you knew their selection.
>
> I would expect brand tag to be brand of pub (what AFAIK is rare), not
> list of brands of its inventory.

I agree. `brand` is for (e.g.) `brand=Weatherspoons`. You could use
`sells:Guinness=yes` to record that something is sold. But that's not
always helpful, because (e.g.) there are many pubs in England that sell
Guinness and aren't “Irish pubs”, and Irish pubs which don't sell
Guinness (there's one in my city like that, but they will sell you a
“Black & Tan” ).

On 09.10.19 12:08, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> (well, unless you care for/can define the distinction between Irish
> and British pubs)

At a minimum they tend to self identify, having “Irish Pub” in the name.
Or just go in and see if they have green white and orange flags (irish
pub), or big ben, and queen elizabeth pictures (British). (Though
there's a "British" pub in my city with murals of Irish revolutionary
Wolfe Tone on the wall, so 路 )

On 09.10.19 00:20, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Bit of an awkward one, but there are pub's in Northern & Inland
> Australia that white people are NOT welcome in (& I'm absolutely
> certain that the same thing, & reverse, applies in many places). Is
> that something that we could / should list against OSM pubs?

“Unwelcoming to $ETHNICY/$RACE” is too subjective for OSM, so doesn't
belong in OSM. Plus with structural racism, you'd almost have to tag
_every_ establishment as “Unfriendly to $MARGINALIZED_GROUP”.

I tried to come up with a clear definition for LGBTQ venues (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lgbtq ), and I think it's
working, and there aren't many venues which are ambiguous.

On 09.10.19 00:15, Dave Corley wrote:
> My way would be to keep it as simple as possible and as logical 
aspossible>

> in both tagging and structure.> Therefore
>
> amenity = pub
> pub = irish
>
> or potentially even
>
> pub:theme = irish

On 09.10.19 16:39, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> I asked about cycle cafés a while back (e.g. 
https://www.cafe-ventoux.cc) and

> the consensus was also to use theme

Simple is important. I do like `theme=irish`, being an adjective, rather 
than a
subtag of "pub", potentially allowing other themed things (like themed 
cafe's

here).

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Your talk submission for SotM 2019

[Rory McCann]

Sat. lunchtime or 2nd break is fine with me.

See yous soon! :)

On So, Sep 15, 2019 at 6:20 PM, Heather Leson  
wrote:
Dennis, we would love for you to join us. Please add your name to the 
hackpad.


All - would it be possible to meet at lunch or second break on 
saturday to talk through the plan.


See you soon

Heather
Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 5:40 PM Dennis Raylin Chen 
 wrote:

Hi Heather,

If you need a East Asia perspect,

Maybe I could help.

Sorry for the late reply.

Dennis Raylin Chen



Heather Leson  於 2019年9月13日 週五 
09:17 寫道：
Hirray. So if folks can add their names to the chart, this will 
help. Maybe we could lunch on saturday to plan.



Heather

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019, 07:27 Gertrude Namitala, 
 wrote:

Hello Heather,

I will help out. Sorry for delay in response.

Kind regards,
Gertrude

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019, 20:07 Heather Leson,  
wrote:
HI folks, I heard back from Rebecca and Patricia. they will help 
out. We would very much like to engage others. Let me know if you 
would like to be involved.  We will need the following:


4 or 5 helpers (low prep, just help lead a discussion)
an OSM Diary. Happy to cowrite with you

Our allies at the Mozilla Diversity and Inclusion mailing list 
suggested a format. I think it is helpful. I put the notes and 
format draft here. Edits welcome


https://pads.ccc.de/bwWXryNYXv

See you soon

Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 6:47 PM Heather Leson 
 wrote:

Dear colleagues,

I hope that your summer was grand.

I am researching formats for this. One thing that might help us 
is to tackle what is inclusive language and what are some of the 
measures to improve diversity - specifically in the board and 
working groups. Thoughts?


"The OSM community is global and diverse. Building on last 
year's Open Heroines conversation, we will co-create a space for 
OSM to talk about how to improve diversity and inclusion in our 
amazing project. All welcome."


How can OSM be more diverse and inclusive? Join us to share your 
lessons and ideas on how we might grow and support a Diversity 
and Inclusive approach in OSM. This is an activity taking place 
across other 'open' communities. We will ask participants to 
co-create plans and identify how we might incorporate it into 
small and big activities within the global network. The format 
will be co-created with some potential outcomes. The goal is to 
be a conversation with interactive, participatory methods and 
some small group work.


See more about this topic:
https://blog.mozilla.org/internetcitizen/2019/03/04/open-source-inclusion/
https://opensourcediversity.org/
https://github.com/mozilla/diversity


Shared planning space - https://pads.ccc.de/bwWXryNYXv


Thank you

Heather
Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 4:47 PM Heather Leson 
 wrote:
HI everyone, sorry for my delay.  Christine, thanks to you and 
the org committee for this opportunity. We will make this time 
work for us.



Dear colleagues, I am going on leave until August 14th. shall 
we set up a document to plan this session. Miriam - I have made 
remote participation possible in the past. We will do our best.


Heather


Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 5:13 AM Miriam Mapanauta 
 wrote:

Hi Christine,

No problem from my side, I can be available remotely, I don't 
believe I will be able to attend the event.


Thanks,

Miriam

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 1:10 PM Christine Karch 
 wrote:

Hi all,

 yesterday we had our schedule meeting. It was quite 
difficult to find a
 suitable place for your session as you have quite divergent 
availability

 time frames mentioned.

 We scheduled your session for 09-22 at 14h. We got a warning 
that Miriam
 is not available at this time. Could you please have a look 
at Miriam
 availability times. They seem to be very limited, maybe you 
made a

 mistake during the submission process.

 Kind regards,

 Christine



--

Miriam
@mapanauta

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[OSM-talk] MS GitHub? | Re: Tagging Governance

[Rory McCann]

On 12/09/2019 11:36, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Except that this often excludes everyone who can write and is *not* a
computer programmer. It think this is what Christoph hinted at when he
wrote:


Is there any mature and writer centric software that implements this
kind of model?  I mean that from the perspective of a documentation
author offers a wiki like functionality with decent preview and
formatting but at the same time comes with a kind of version management
and functions to facilitate editorial review and discussion.


I think Microsoft GitHub can do that.

It has in-browser editing, live preview of the rendered markdown/etc 
format, as well as pull requests, forking, comments on changes, 
permissions, the ability for people to use command line git at home.


I don't know what it's like to write lots of docs like that, or if it's 
still too programming focused, and it's a shame that it's proprietary 
software from Microsoft, but it might get the job done.


Read more:

 * https://help.github.com/en/articles/editing-files-in-your-repository
 * https://github.blog/2013-07-11-github-flow-in-the-browser/
 * https://help.github.com/en/categories/writing-on-github

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Your talk submission for SotM 2019

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I'm happy lend a helping hand if I can. I put my name on the pad.

I was considering of running a LGBTQ* "bird of a feather"/"self 
organized session" at SotM too which is sorta related.


Rory

On So, Sep 8, 2019 at 8:47 PM, Miriam Mapanauta  
wrote:

Hi Heather,

I am happy to participate in the discussion :)

Thanks,

Miriam

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 1:07 PM Heather Leson  
wrote:
HI folks, I heard back from Rebecca and Patricia. they will help 
out. We would very much like to engage others. Let me know if you 
would like to be involved.  We will need the following:


4 or 5 helpers (low prep, just help lead a discussion)
an OSM Diary. Happy to cowrite with you

Our allies at the Mozilla Diversity and Inclusion mailing list 
suggested a format. I think it is helpful. I put the notes and 
format draft here. Edits welcome


https://pads.ccc.de/bwWXryNYXv

See you soon

Heather

Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 6:47 PM Heather Leson 
 wrote:

Dear colleagues,

I hope that your summer was grand.

I am researching formats for this. One thing that might help us is 
to tackle what is inclusive language and what are some of the 
measures to improve diversity - specifically in the board and 
working groups. Thoughts?


"The OSM community is global and diverse. Building on last year's 
Open Heroines conversation, we will co-create a space for OSM to 
talk about how to improve diversity and inclusion in our amazing 
project. All welcome."


How can OSM be more diverse and inclusive? Join us to share your 
lessons and ideas on how we might grow and support a Diversity and 
Inclusive approach in OSM. This is an activity taking place across 
other 'open' communities. We will ask participants to co-create 
plans and identify how we might incorporate it into small and big 
activities within the global network. The format will be co-created 
with some potential outcomes. The goal is to be a conversation with 
interactive, participatory methods and some small group work.


See more about this topic:
https://blog.mozilla.org/internetcitizen/2019/03/04/open-source-inclusion/
https://opensourcediversity.org/
https://github.com/mozilla/diversity


Shared planning space - https://pads.ccc.de/bwWXryNYXv


Thank you

Heather
Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 4:47 PM Heather Leson 
 wrote:
HI everyone, sorry for my delay.  Christine, thanks to you and the 
org committee for this opportunity. We will make this time work 
for us.



Dear colleagues, I am going on leave until August 14th. shall we 
set up a document to plan this session. Miriam - I have made 
remote participation possible in the past. We will do our best.


Heather


Heather Leson
heatherle...@gmail.com
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
Blog: textontechs.com


On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 5:13 AM Miriam Mapanauta 
 wrote:

Hi Christine,

No problem from my side, I can be available remotely, I don't 
believe I will be able to attend the event.


Thanks,

Miriam

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 1:10 PM Christine Karch 
 wrote:

Hi all,

 yesterday we had our schedule meeting. It was quite difficult 
to find a
 suitable place for your session as you have quite divergent 
availability

 time frames mentioned.

 We scheduled your session for 09-22 at 14h. We got a warning 
that Miriam
 is not available at this time. Could you please have a look at 
Miriam
 availability times. They seem to be very limited, maybe you 
made a

 mistake during the submission process.

 Kind regards,

 Christine



--

Miriam
@mapanauta



--

Miriam
@mapanauta




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[OSM-talk] Chaos Communications Camp 2019?

[Rory McCann]

Hello,

I wondered if

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Re: [OSM-talk] Chaos Communications Camp 2019?

[Rory McCann]

(Not to self: don't press send too early!)

I wonder if anyone else is going to the Chaos Communications Camp next 
week? Is there going to be much OSM stuff/people there? I'll be there, 
hit me up if you wanna meet up. :)


https://events.ccc.de/camp/2019/

On 18.08.19 19:16, Rory McCann wrote:

Hello,

I wondered if


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[Diversity-talk] Fwd: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[Rory McCann]

The OSM Foundation is trying to find out more about the OSM community/ies!

 Forwarded Message 
Subject: Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:59:34 +0300
From: Dorothea Kazazi 
To: t...@openstreetmap.org

Hello,

The following survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap 
was developed by board members. The survey is not quantitative and its 
aim is to stimulate  discussions in local communities and at the Local 
Chapters Congress at SotM.


https://osmf.limequery.org/428835

~ The survey will run for two weeks.
~ Only one question is mandatory: "How can we share your answers?".

There is more information on the scope of the survey and approach on the 
opening page.


warm greetings,

Dorothea


~~
Links you can share for different languages:

English (Base language): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=en
Chinese (Simplified): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hans
Chinese (Traditional; Hong Kong): 
https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=zh-Hant-HK

French: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fr
German: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=de
Hungarian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=hu
Italian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=it
Lithuanian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=lt
Persian: https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=fa
Portuguese (Brazilian): https://osmf.limequery.org/428835?lang=pt-BR

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[Diversity-talk] Fwd: International Day of the World's Indigenous Peoples

[Rory McCann]

Might be interesting

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:International Day of the World's Indigenous Peoples
Date:   Thu, 8 Aug 2019 22:31:07 + (UTC)
From:   Suchith Anand via talk 
Reply-To:   Suchith Anand 
To: Osm-talk 



The International Day of the World’s Indigenous Peoples 
is 9 August. This day 
recognizes the achievements and contributions of the world's 370 million 
indigenous people who live in more than 90 countries.



I wish to join the world in honouring and acknowledging the resilience, 
dignity and strength of indigenous peoples around the world.GEO 
community are marking this day by announcing the launch of the GEO Week 
2019 Hackathon,an innovative hackathon to advance the use of Earth 
observation (EO) data by and for youth in indigenous communities. The 
hackathon is being managed by Diana Mastracci with support from the GEO 
community. The hackathon will address EO-based challenges and will be 
co-designed by indigenous youth throughout the world. The goal is to 
encourage the co-development of innovative EO-based applications that 
are locally relevant and enhance the communities way of learning. It 
will promote the use of open EO data among indigenous communities and 
ultimately to co-design locally relevant free and open source software. 
This will result in new means for aligning local/ traditional knowledge 
and science co-production across cultural and generational lines.[1],[2].



Details at http://www.earthobservations.org/geoweek19.php?t=hackathon


Join us for the GEO Week 2019 and the GEO Ministerial Summitin Canberra, 
Australia (4-9th Nov 2019). Canberra means ‘meeting place’ in Ngunnawal, 
the local indigenous language. Recognizing the history of the land and 
its traditional custodians, GEO Week will bring together diverse people 
and cultures to support and sustain our planet and communities.



Best wishes,


Suchith



[1] https://www.earthobservations.org/geo_blog_obs.php?id=371 



[2] https://www.earthobservations.org/geo_blog_obs.php?id=370





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[Diversity-talk] 100% unofficial | Re: Offer: Want helping adding presets to iD?

[Rory McCann]

On 06.08.19 20:58, Rory McCann wrote:

So what's next? What can we add next? 

I'm happy to mentor anyone who'd like to improve iD in this way. I've
been a software dev for years, so I know my way around a github pull
request, but not everyone is experienced like that. So I can help you
with that, if you'd like.  If there's a really simple feature, I can
probably just do it for you if you tell me what's involved, and help
spec it out. Anyone else with software dev/OSM experience want to help
mentor?


Y'know I wasn't 100% clear. This is all totally unofficial. I'm not an
iD developer. I don't know the iD developers directly. I'm not making
any promises that “Email Rory and you'll get your preset in iD”, that's
not for me to make. iD isn't my project. I've made one pull request and
that's it. I haven't asked the iD devs about this idea.

I can help you *ask* the iD developers. I'm offering software dev
_support_ so *you* can ask them. I'm offering what skills I have in
software development to help you make a request of the iD maintainers.
Nothing might happen.

Just so we're clear.  I don't wanna look like I'm making promises for
someone else.

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[Diversity-talk] Offer: Want helping adding presets to iD?

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I recently suggest a patch for LGBTQ* presets in iD[1] and it was
released! It wasn't too hard to do (kudos to the iD devs for making it
very easy to test locally). And it seem to be used lots now.[2]

So what's next? What can we add next? 

I'm happy to mentor anyone who'd like to improve iD in this way. I've
been a software dev for years, so I know my way around a github pull
request, but not everyone is experienced like that. So I can help you
with that, if you'd like.  If there's a really simple feature, I can
probably just do it for you if you tell me what's involved, and help
spec it out. Anyone else with software dev/OSM experience want to help
mentor?

Feel free to reply publicly, privately or whatever.

Rory

[1] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/5940
[2] enter “lgbtq” into this page https://taghistory.raifer.tech/

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[OSM-talk] `computer_vision_assisted=yes` changeset tag?

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

With the increased usage of computer vision generated mapping data,
would it be a good idea for people/editors to set a
`computer_vision_assisted=yes` tag on changeset which use that?

We have `import=yes` and `bot=yes` for data import & automated edits
(resp.), so this is in keeping with that standard. We also add
`hashtags` etc tags to changeset. Changeset tags are for metadata about
the change. “This edit was assisted by computer vision” is useful
metadata, no?

What do yous think?

Rory

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[Diversity-talk] Fwd: GeoForAll meeting at FOSS4G 2019

[Rory McCann]

Might be interesting to some

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:GeoForAll meeting at FOSS4G 2019
Date:   Sat, 3 Aug 2019 11:18:45 + (UTC)
Reply-To:   Suchith Anand 
To: t...@openstreetmap.org 


GeoForAll is committed to provide geoeducation and Digital economy 
opportunities to all.  We are planning GeoForAll meeting on Wednesday 
28th August 2019 (Wednesday)  18:00-19:30 (Bucharest time) at FOSS4G 
2019 [1],[2]  to discuss and plan ideas for the future. It will be 
similar to FOSS4G 2018 GeoForAll meeting [3] and aimed  to bring 
together colleagues  from around the world to plan ideas for expanding 
Open Principles in Science and Education.



Andreea Marin (Faculty of Geography,University of Bucharest) [4]  will 
be the organiser for the GeoForAll meeting at FOSS4G 2019. Andreea 
worked to establish  the first Romanian Open Source Geospatial Lab at 
the University of Bucharest.



We welcome all colleagues attending FOSS4G 2019 to join the GeoForAll 
meeting and contribute your ideas. I am grateful to FOSS4G 2019 LOC 
 colleagues for their work and efforts.



Best wishes,


Suchith



[1] https://2019.foss4g.org/schedule/bird-of-a-feather/


[2] https://2019.foss4g.org/schedule/full-schedule/


[3] https://2018.foss4g.org/geoforall/


[4]https://2019.foss4g.org/speakers/andreea-marin/

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[OSM-talk] erm... imports still go on | Re: Isn't it nice to share?  | Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Rory McCann]

There have been, and continue to be, data imports, automated editing,and
AI type things (like this Facebook). Yes some are unhappy about
this, but it does _happen_. Facebook fights you in court for a copy of
your own personal data, which is a fundamental right. They're bound to
hold on to commercial viable data like PoIs (which I'd expect them to
do). To compare the two, and think an OSM import is about as hard as
getting data from Facebook

On 02/08/2019 08:57, Blake Girardot wrote:
Respectfully, it is naive to think that even if they did offer their POI 
databases, the self appointed police of OSM would allow the POIs to be 
added to OSM.


Truthfully, it is naive to think that any mapping or data that is not 
contributed just the way the few vocal folks who monopolize these OSM 
lists like, will be accepted.


There really is no way to win with these folks, offer a lot and they 
accuse the contributor of trying to take over and/or destroying OSM, 
offer too little and they accuse the users of taking advantage of OSM.


Best to just do like most folks who are interested in using and 
contributing to OSM do - unsubscribe from these lists and carry on.


cheers,
Blake


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[OSM-talk] Isn't it nice to share?  | Re: Facebook mapping highways using AI in collaboration with OpenStreetMap

[Rory McCann]

On 01/08/2019 18:35, Kathleen Lu via talk wrote:
I don't think it's disingenuous at all for Facebook to use their own 
POIs instead of OSM's. Wasn't the whole point of the Collective 
Databases principle and the Collective Databases Guideline

specifically to enable this type of usage, so that those interested
in OSM did not have to make an "all or nothing" choice?


Oh yes, there's nothing wrong with Facebook (and Yelp, and TripAdvisor 
and and) having their own PoI database. But, they _could_ help us, 
massively, by sharing it. They way they talk about OSM, you'd swear they 
were already doing all they could to help us. 


But it's naive to think they ever will. Nothing wrong with that, 
shareholder value and all that.


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Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Rory McCann]

I don't think this counts as “tagging for the renderer”, which is more 
about adding false data to “make the map look like what you want” (e.g. 
“I want a blue line here, like the `route=ferry` line, so I'll use that”).


I think it could be very helpful for place names which aren't pronounced 
the way you pronounce regular English words. e.g. in Ireland: “Dun 
Laoghaire” [dun leary], “Tallaght” [tala], “Youghal” [yal], “Portlaoise” 
[port leash]. This could be a problem even in England with places like 
“Reading”, “Worchester”, “Cirencester”.


On 17/07/2019 00:54, Andrew Errington wrote:
I think this is a rendering issue (i.e. rendering speech instead of 
graphics) and as such does not belong in OSM.


The work to convert an arbitrary string into speech belongs in the TTS 
engine.


If we start putting IPA strings in OSM then we will start getting 
arguments about the "correct" pronunciation. At the very least it is 
tagging for the renderer, which we should avoid.


IMHO, of course.

Andrew

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 09:20 Greg Troxel > wrote:


John Whelan mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
writes:

 > One or two are problematic usually as the street name is an
 > abbreviation.    For example 1e Avenue in French meaning First
Avenue.
 >
 > Any suggestions on how these should be handled?  This particular
 > application is aimed at partially sighted people but I feel we should
 > be able to come up with a generic solution.

Two comments:

   osm norms are to expand abbreviations, as I understand it.  So that
   should be fixed first

   Even after that, we have ref tags, and there is often a road
whose ref
   is something like "CT 2", "US 1", or "I 95".  I don't really think
   this should be expanded in the database.  Instead, what's needed is a
   table in the application, perhaps centrally maintained in OSM, of how
   to pronounce standardize ref abbreviations.  Putting phonetics of
   "connecticut" on all use of CT or the expanded name is not
reasonable.


But I agree this needs help.  I get told to turn on "Court 2" and "Ma
2".  Luckily I understand this by now and it actually works ok.  But it
does need fixing.


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[Talk-us] Careful, "st" can mean "stone" in some places | Re: Typical maxweight signs in USA? (editor developmnent question)

[Rory McCann]

On 25/06/2019 20:01, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

25 Jun 2019, 17:47 by pe...@dobratz.us:

Reading this page, I see the potential ambiguity extends deeper than
I realized (short ton, metric ton, long ton)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne


AFAIK all cases of "t" in USA on max weight signs means "short ton".

Taggable by adding "st" unit or by converting to pounds, and adding 
"lbs" unit.
First seems to be superior as puts lower burden on mappers and it allows 
to directly map what is signed.

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxweight#Usage


FYI "st" is used in Britain & Ireland to mean a "stone" ( 14 pounds i.e. 
6.35029318 kg ). People in UK & Ireland can refer to their weight as "X 
stone", or "I've lost half a stone on my diet" (but kg is common too).


If you use "st" in an OSM tag value for weight, a not very bright data 
consumer might interpret that as stone. Maybe we can side-step that 
problem by picking a better suffix?


What about "uston" (maxweight=8 uston)?

Are there other regions which use “ton/tonne/...” on signs which 
*aren't* the US ton? If so, we could just say “t” means “us short ton”.


“Gallons” is also different in US units & imperial units, so "usgal" or 
"impgal" are better choices than "gal". (Relevant when mapping fire 
hydrant flow rates).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_(unit)


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[Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[Rory McCann]

On 04/06/2019 16:21, Martin Wynne wrote:

In the local park there are two areas of play equipment for children.

One is fenced off and clearly intended for infants/toddlers accompanied 
by parents.


Next to it there is a larger unfenced area containing play equipment for 
unsupervised older children, large climbing structures, zip wires, etc.


leisure=playground allows min_age and max_age in years, but in this case 
there are no signs giving specific age restrictions.


How best to map the distinction between the two areas?

Martin.


What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a 
toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is that 
the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than nothing?


You could try to micromap the individual pieces of equipment, which 
might allow data consumers to deduce what's what, but I doubt this is 
practical.


You can map if equipment can be used by kids with various degrees of 
disabilities (`wheelchair`, `sitting_disability`, `walking_disability` 
etc), which is just so nice. Please go out of your way to help them.


Obviously, put a `note` on the playgrounds explaining this.


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Re: [Diversity-talk] Opening hours syntax for non Gregorian calendar

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

There was a question on the tagging mailing list about non-gregorian 
calendars. No clear resolution. Just another thing with making one map 
of the whole world.


R/

On 17/05/2019 20:40, Saeed Hubaishan wrote:
As I see in the wiki opening hours should be in Gregorian calendar 
only.  But in fact there are many countries and religions using another 
calendars that affect the opening hours.


We (Muslims) used the Hijri Calendar 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar (lunar calendar)  for our 
holidays (Eid Alfiter and Eid Aledha)  all government offices and shops 
has another opening time in these holidays. Also in Ramdan holy month 
(9th month) all government offices and shops has a different opening time.


So opening_hours syntax must accept the other calendar systems.


the renderers may use ICU open source library to manage these other 
calendars see http://userguide.icu-project.org/datetime/calendar



الحصول على Outlook for Android 


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[OSM-legal-talk] Colour your bits | Re: OSM for training ML machines

[Rory McCann]

On 10.04.19 16:39, Tom Lee via legal-talk wrote:
I have sometimes sene[sic] similar arguments about intellectual property 
brought up in engineering-focused conversations, which propose elaborate 
technical mechanisms by which data might be transformed, then recreated, 

> and in the process its intellectual property rights somehow purged.

I'm a techie, not a lawyer, but there's an interesting essay trying to
explain just this point to techies:

"What Colour are you bits?" https://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23


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[OSM-talk] Downsides of storing QA data in OSM data, Way ids! | Re: iD invents nosquare=yes for buildings which should not be squared

[Rory McCann]

There certainly is benefit to piggybacking QA data on the OSM databases,
but there are downsides. Moving a node will not change the way's version
id. This change can make the building square/notsqure/overlap/whatever.
The way needs to be rechecked by the QA tool. But it can't know know
that from the way version.

On 10.05.19 22:17, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:39 PM Yves > wrote:


Some validation tools, like Osmose, make great efforts to maintain a
'false positive' database.


If the same validation is done by multiple tools, they need to share the 
"false positive" data, otherwise only one tool would know not to change 
something, while another tool will encourage the user to make the same 
mistake.


So we either have to set up an OSM shadow database that contains all 
exceptions, e.g. "object  is exempt from validation ", or this 
data should be stored in the object itself, which seems to be a far more 
robust approach (same data store allows data consistency / versioning / 
user management / tracking / consistency between tools / same processing 
pipeline / ...).


If the objection to this is that users don't want to see junk data, I 
agree -- but we could simply dedicate a key namespace to validations, 
and hide it by default in JOSM and iD.


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[OSM-talk] Software configuration | Re: iD influencing tagging

[Rory McCann]

On 07.04.19 14:43, John Whelan wrote:
Tagging is not always easy, but I do have concerns when iD is so 
commonly used but the recommended tags do not align with OpenStreetMap 
I'll say normals.


Specifically one of my concerns is a semi-detached house is not 
recognised in iD only the more general tag house.


In JOSM, people, or groups, can make their own tagging presets. AFAIK iD 
unfortunately doesn't have this feature. If it did, the iD version on 
openstreetmap.org could be configured to something special, people could 
have their personal tagging presets "saved" somehow, maybe one could 
"load other presets from a remote address" via a URL parameter, allowing 
one to "load a preset with a link". Then each iD user wouldn't be able 
to complain to the iD developers. But that's not possible now.


For now, the OSM wiki voting isn't binding, the people who make editors 
have a lot of control. I'm sure patches & feature requests would be 
welcome



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[OSM-talk] Dialects of English | Re: iD influencing tagging

[Rory McCann]

A better example might be "college", which has different meanings in
different dialects of English, or "gallon" or "football"

I don't think there is a solution this, except better localization of
software. Or we all just switch to Esperanto or Irish or something.

If you want real fun, just talk about "tabling an agenda item" 

On 08/04/2019 18:32, Yuri Astrakhan wrote:
Martin, thanks for explanation, but my point still stands -- in tags, we 
treat words not at their own meaning, but as IDs that represent some 
agreed concepts.  The German wiki page has a warning about 
"evangelical", so it is likely not all German-speaking mappers are aware 
of the distinction, or know English well enough to know this.  The same 
applies to highways - "highway" the word has different meaning in 
different regions, whereas "highway" the OSM tag should have just a 
single meaning that's clear to every mapper and every consumer.


On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 3:50 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:




sent from a phone

 > On 7. Apr 2019, at 22:23, Yuri Astrakhan mailto:yuriastrak...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 >
 > A good example is "denomination=evangelical" -- German speakers
should not use it for "evangelisch" which stands for
denomination=protestant. The word may be the same, but we treat
"evangelical" as an ID for a specific meaning, rather than reflect
local language customs.


actually “evangelical” translates in German to “evangelikal”, which
doesn’t seem to be very confusing. Someone thinking it means
“evangelisch” is likely mapping in a domain s/he isn’t acquainted with.

Cheers, Martin 



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[talk-au] Existing OSM precedent | Re: Aboriginal art sites

[Rory McCann]

On 01/04/2019 12:27, Ian Sergeant wrote:
is this form of censorship practised anywhere else in OSM - maybe for 
other indigenous people - that we could copy their model?


I don't think "censorship" is a helpful term here.

But there has been a practice in OSM to *not* map certain things, such 
as private/non-publicized domestic violence shelters, or the nesting 
sites of endangered birds. So the same logic applies here I think.



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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Proposed mechanical edit - elimination of old-style Wikipedia links in Ireland

[Rory McCann]

On 19/03/2019 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

Old style wikipedia link is one where language is stored in key, not in
value.

For example "wikipedia:en=Ireland" is an old style link, while
"wikipedia=en:Ireland" is a form that is currently standard.


To expand, what do you mean here? What makes one the "standard" and the 
other not? What/who consumers wikipedia* tags in OSM and what do they do 
with it? Which format is better for the data consumers? If the 
wikipedia=en:X format is better than wikipedia:en=X format for data 
consumer Y, that's one thing. It just seems to squash a lot of data into 
one, and run the risk of losing data, since many wikipedia tags would be 
removed from OSM...


Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Proposed mechanical edit - elimination of old-style Wikipedia links in Ireland

[Rory McCann]

I'm not sure why one would bother with this, but whatever.

Are they any cases where there are more than wikipedia:XX tag, and what 
will you do in that case? What will the wikipedia tag be?


On 19/03/2019 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:


Old style wikipedia link is one where language is stored in key, not in
value.

For example "wikipedia:en=Ireland" is an old style link, while
"wikipedia=en:Ireland" is a form that is currently standard.

Many old-style Wikipedia links remain and updating them to new style
manually is boring, tedious and some mistakes may appear during this.

Some OSM elements have old-style Wikipedia link without new tag what
means that this data is harder to process for editors and data
consumers.

Also, remaining old-style Wikipedia tags confuse mappers, especially
less experienced.

Therefore I propose to run an automatic edit that will replace
old-style Wikipedia links with current style of Wikipedia links.

Please comment no matter what you think about this idea! I will not
make the edit without a clear support so please comment if you think
that it is a good idea and if you think that it should not be done.

Plan is as follows:

I will take full responsibility for all edits and if anything goes
wrong I will fix it.

Editing is limited to objects with old-style Wikipedia tags is not
conflicting with existing wikipedia=* or wikidata=* tag or other
old-style wikipedia tags.

Links detected as invalid (leading to disambigs, articles about humans,
animals, plants, events etc) are also skipped

Each changeset contains a single element or group of close elements to
avoid edits spanning across large areas (it is impossible in cases
where edited object itself spans very large area)

After every changeset bot sleeps for one minute.

This is proposed as reoccurring edit and may be made as soon as new
old-style wikipedia links appear.

documentation page on OSM Wiki is at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/elimination_of_old-style_Wikipedia_links_in_Ireland

I have experience with automatic edits. exactly the same task was run
in Poland to remove more than 6000 old-style Wikipedia links what was
completed without any issues.

I recently processed also old-style Wikipedia tags across USA.


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[OSM-talk] pic4review | Re: 140 000 shops of unspecified type

[Rory McCann]

On 15/03/2019 11:08, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

how to find it?

JOSM validator since latest released version complains about shop=yes -
just download data and run validator

Osmose has support for displaying JOSM validator complaints
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/#item=9002=1%2C2%2C3==
shows JOSM deprecation warnings

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H0S - you can navigate to your area and press run


pic4review ( https://pic4review.pavie.info/ ) is a new editor which uses 
Mapillary & OpenStreetCam to make targetted edits to OSM objects. I've 
been exploring it for changing shop=yes tags and it's pretty useful.


This is for Dublin, but you can duplicate it elsewhere 
https://pic4review.pavie.info/#/mission/417


With street level imagery like that, remote mapping is much more reliable.

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Re: [OSM-talk] We need to have a conversation about attribution

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I find this funny in a way. Traditionally, big corps disliked
"share-alike" open source/data licences, like ODbL, GNU GPL (or the
Affero GPL!), and prefer "attribution only" licences like BSD. And here
we have companies not liking the attribution requirement! If they won't
follow our attribution requirement, I doubt they'd follow our
share-alike licence! We've given them the bare minimum requirement
(attribution) and they still drag their feet!

Clearly there are many interpretations of the attribution requirement,
so we need clarity. The LWG's upcoming comments are very interesting,
*especially* what "reasonably calculated".

Personally I've interpreted the req. as "A regular use of the map should
make clear it's from OSM." 'Clicking on the about page', or digging into
the 'credits' web page isn't regular use, so isn't enough. Showing OSM
when the app starts/loads is part of regular use.

If you have other logos, or attribution for other providers, and you can
fit them on your map, then you can afford to put "© OpenStreetMap" too.

Rory

On 28/02/2019 23:35, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Hi all,

In recent years some OSM data consumers and "OSM as a service" providers 
have begun to put the credit to OpenStreetMap behind an click-through 
'About', 'Credits', 'Legal' or '(i)' link. Examples:


https://docs.mapbox.com/help/img/android/android-first-steps-intro.png
https://www.systemed.net/osm/IMG_1846.PNG

(This should be obvious but I am in no means meaning to pick on Mapbox 
or Apple here - as anyone who knows me will testify, I have the utmost 
respect both for Mapbox's technical chops, their ability to iterate on a 
compelling product and their success in building the biggest mapping 
platform using OSM data; and I've been an Apple fanboy since my first 
Mac IIsi back in, erk, 1992. They're just the two that sprang to mind, 
bearing in mind that as someone that old, these social networks about 
photos and stuff are way too modern for me.)


It should also be said that many providers - the majority - provide 
attribution in compliance with our policy at osm.org/copyright, i.e. 
showing attribution in the corner of the map, and in many cases 
generously going beyond with "Improve this map" pages; and that some 
providers will do great things like this much of the time and resort to 
"(i)" or "About" only part of the time.


The policy, introduced with the changeover to the ODbL, says:

"We require that you use the credit “© OpenStreetMap contributors”... 
For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner 
of the map."


There then follows an example screenshot of a map of Charlbury (woo) 
with a credit in the corner. The OSM Foundation Legal FAQ is pretty much 
the same 
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ#Where_to_put_it.3F). 



Historically the aim of requiring attribution has been partly to thank 
contributors, and partly because it's a virtuous feedback loop. If you 
see a map and it's wrong or incomplete, seeing "(c) OpenStreetMap" in 
the corner shows you where the data comes from, so you can go and 
improve it. That way we get more contributors, the map gets better, it's 
more valuable to its consumers, so more people use it, so more people 
improve it... and so on.


The legal rationale is 4.3 in the Open Database Licence 
(https://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/index.html), and in 
particular "if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a 
notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make 
any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise 
exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the 
Database". The key phrase is "reasonably calculated" and our view in 
2012 was that, since the major mapping providers (Google, 
Navteq/Nokia/HERE, TomTom etc.) required and implemented on-screen 
attribution, "reasonably" meant that users would expect a credit to be 
provided in that way. The OSMF FAQ makes this explicit: "you should 
expect to credit OpenStreetMap in the same way and with the same 
prominence as would be expected by any other map supplier".


Full mea culpa: the /copyright page says "should" rather than "must" 
purely because I wrote the page, I'm British and I, we, talk like that 
(http://termcoord.eu/2016/08/the-truth-behind-british-impoliteness/ , 
especially the "I would suggest" line). It used to say "request" rather 
than "require" for the same reason. In retrospect I should have realised 
not everyone is British and we should really have hired a lawyer to 
review the page. I think that months in the trenches of the licence 
change had probably given us trench fever for things like that. Entirely 
my fault and I take full responsibility for it (but you know, it's so 
great not to have to write 500 monthly mails to legal-talk@ any more).


So we need to decide what our response is to web/in-app maps that do not 
provide attribution in the manner 

[OSM-talk] KeepRight might do that already | Re: HTTPS all the Things (Automated Edit)

[Rory McCann]

On 27/02/2019 15:08, Andy Mabbett wrote:

P.S. It would also be worth considering extending or adapting the
code, so that if an error like 404 is found, or a timeout occurs, then
either:

* a fixme tag, or note, is created
* an entry is made on a wiki page or similar

or both of the above.


I think KeepRight checks websites, and can report things like that:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keep_Right/410_websites

https://www.keepright.at/report_map.php?zoom=14=48.20808=16.37221=B0T=0%2C411%2C412%2C413_ign=0_tmpign=0

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[OSM-talk] Other tags/values | Re: HTTPS all the Things (Automated Edit)

[Rory McCann]

Hi,

As far as I remember, you're not planning on touching other tags, like 
`contact:website`. *But* what happens if an object has 
`website=http://example.com,contact:website=http://example.com`? You'd 
make it inconsistant!


I suggest a simple solution: If any other tag has that same value, then 
skip that object. Then it won't be made "inconsistant". I have no idea 
how many objects this applies to, possibly none! Hopefully you're script 
will be able to tell us :)


Rory

On 22/02/2019 08:02, Bryce Jasmer wrote:
I have written a script that will search for OSM objects that have a 
website tag that explicitly states "http://...; or implicitly uses http 
by leaving of the protocol specification. The script will then loop 
through all that it discovers and asks the http site if it will redirect 
me to the secure version of the website over the https protocol. If it 
does, I will update the database with the new value.


This has a couple of advantages. From now through the end of time, any 
user clicking on one of those links will be spared the time it takes to 
establish the connection, ask if there is a secure version of the site, 
and tear down the connection. It's on the order of 10-200 ms to do, but 
over the life of the link and the number of objects that are clicked and 
the population, this could save centuries of time :-)


Another advantage is that it will make https more pervasive and 
hopefully people will start thinking https and forgetting all about 
http. A more secure internet is in all of our best interests.


Anyway, I'd like to (slowly) run this across the planet. I've discussed 
this on the US Slack channel and have performed the actions on the 
United States already. I've addressed many questions and have heard no 
strong objections. I'm seeking feedback from the larger community now 
before proceeding.


The wiki page is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits/b-jazz

The Slack conversation is available, but has died down and the 
transcript is available at the wiki page mentioned above.


The diary entry with some more conversation is at the bot's page: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/b-jazz-bot/diary/47743


The source code is available on GitLab for review: 
https://gitlab.com/b-jazz/https_all_the_things


Example changeset for a run over the "9yfd" geohash: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/67454775


I welcome your input.



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Re: [OSM-talk] HTTPS all the Things (Automated Edit)

[Rory McCann]

On 26/02/2019 14:45, Joseph Reeves wrote:

As an aside, HSTS is interesting here because the website operator is
saying "only use this domain over https", but at that point, we don't
need to make changes to the database because the web client should be
aware of the HSTS preload list; the protocol listed in the referrer
is not relevant.


I don't think we can rely totally on HSTS. I'm sure not all sites are on 
HSTS preload lists. I think OSM has more "website=http://*; tags (965k)¹ 
than Firefox² & Chrome³ have in their HSTS preload lists...


[1] https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/website#values

[2]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Strict-Transport-Security#Preloading_Strict_Transport_Security
https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/raw-file/tip/security/manager/ssl/nsSTSPreloadList.inc

[3]
https://www.chromium.org/hsts
https://cs.chromium.org/codesearch/f/chromium/src/net/http/transport_security_state_static.json?cl=5b2537d89ea5994d27bba5735961b0be1095c54c

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[Diversity-talk] Fwd: Arabic Translation Needed

[Rory McCann]

Maybe someone here is more multilingual than me.

 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Arabic Translation Needed
Date:   Tue, 19 Feb 2019 15:17:42 +0300
From:   Jessica Bergmann 

Hi everyone!

We are looking to support some of our corporate partners engaging in 
mapping activities for International Women's Day happening on March 8. 
One of our partners has requested a training document translated to 
Arabic that can be shared with staff who will participate in the mapathon.


The translation would be needed by February 27 so we can finalize the 
design and share with offices. If you are an Arabic speaker who would be 
willing to assist, please email me directly and I can share the document 
with you. I anticipate the task in total shouldn't take more than one 
hour of your time.


Thanks in advance!

Jessica

--
*Jessica Bergmann*
Partnerships & Community Programs Associate
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team 
Uganda: +256 754 672 750 | WhatsApp: +1 630 267 3307
Skype: jessica.bergmann91

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