Re: [OSM-talk] edits made by National Trust staff

[Volker Schmidt]

An interesting discussion, which I think is not specific or limited to the
NT in the UK. The correct handling of proposed, planned, or
under-condtruction features is for example something that I have
encountered with cycle routes in Italy. So please keep on this list.


On Mon, 3 Apr 2023, 13:17 ,  wrote:

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>1. Re: edits made by National Trust staff (was: Talk-GB Digest,
>   Vol 197, Issue 27) (Marc_marc)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2023 11:43:34 +0200
> From: Marc_marc 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] edits made by National Trust staff (was:
> Talk-GB Digest, Vol 197, Issue 27)
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Hello,
>
> Le 27.03.23 ? 14:51, Ragone, Olivia via talk a ?crit?:
> > We tend to use a standard changeset comment as it would be very
> > difficult to capture details of every change
>
> the comment is not to actually describe what you did but why. e.g.
> "added a path that was just created" will avoid the contributor
> wondering why they can't see it on the satellite view
>
> I invite you to continue the conversation with the local community
> by subscribing to talk-gb
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> and then replace the recipient of your email
> with talk...@openstreetmap.org
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> End of talk Digest, Vol 224, Issue 5
> 
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[OSM-talk] e: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags without local knowledge in various countries

[Volker Schmidt]

I often add tracks from satellite imagery, and also do occasionally add
missing tracktype tagging from that imagery.

The tricky bit is to understand that there are no physical barriers which
are not visible on the imagery, but the tracktype, surface and smoothness
are often easy to guess correctly, with the proviso that, when in doubt I
put lower quality indication tags. I do that only in areas which I
generally know, i.e. I have used many tracks in the area, and know from
that how they typically look like. So, I use some kind of NA (Natural
Intelligence) learning process to interpret the satellite images.

>From my user experience (on bicycle) I find it important that a
barrier-free track exists, that I can follow at my own risk as far as
surface quality is concerned than not to have it on the map.

Barriers (gates, fences, access forbidden signs) are the real risk in this.
I often consult GPX tracks and also the Strava heat map to get an idea of
which tracks are used.

I would not, however, apply this approach to an area which I do not
generally know.

Doing this on a world-wide scale is most likely a bit more complex, but I
could imagine that a person who is doing that continuously develops a
capability to interpret well the satellite photos regarding tracktype.

But, by my own  experience, it is much more common to encounter access
problems than to encounter tracktype-related problems.

In summary I would not advocate a revert unless there are at least some
real examples of errors.

Volker
(mapping often in the treeless and flat agricultural country side of the Po
valley in Italy)
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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13

[Volker Schmidt]

I often add tracks from satellite imagery, and also do occasionally add
missing tracktype tagging from that imagery.

The tricky bit is to understand that there are no physical barriers which
are not visible on the imagery, but the tracktype, surface and smoothness
are often easy to guess correctly, with the proviso that, when in doubt I
put lower quality indication tags. I do that only in areas which I
generally know, i.e. I have used many tracks in the area, and know from
that how they typically look like. So, I use some kind of NA (Natural
Intelligence) learning process to interpret the satellite images.

>From my user experience (on bicycle) I find it important that a
barrier-free track exists, that I can follow at my own risk as far as
surface quality is concerned than not to have it on the map.

Barriers (gates, fences, access forbidden signs) are the real risk in this.
I often consult GPX tracks and also the Strava heat map to get an idea of
which tracks are used.

I would not, however, apply this approach to an area which I do not
generally know.

Doing this on a world-wide scale is most likely a bit more complex, but I
could imagine that a person who is doing that continuously develops a
capability to interpret well the satellite photos regarding tracktype.

But, by my own  experience, it is much more common to encounter access
problems than to encounter tracktype-related problems.

In summary I would not advocate a revert unless there are at least some
real examples of errors.

Volker
(mapping often in the treeless and flat agricultural country side of the Po
valley in Italy)

On Sat, 18 Jul 2020 at 19:44,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (Andy Townsend)
>2. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (Rory McCann)
>3. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (stevea)
>4. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (Florimond Berthoux)
>5. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (Mateusz Konieczny)
>6. Re: Planned revert of added surface and tracktype tags
>   without local knowledge in various countries (stevea)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 15:01:02 +0100
> From: Andy Townsend 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Planned revert of added surface and tracktype
> tags without local knowledge in various countries
> Message-ID: <43bdf582-5768-bf99-ed8e-d802f5086...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 18/07/2020 11:53, Michael Reichert wrote:
> > I do not believe that one can add reliable tracktype=* information from
> > satellite imagery without having some ground truth knowledge in order to
> > know how to interpret the imagery in that region.
>
> I think that "without having some ground truth knowledge" is the key
> part there.  I know from personal experience that if I was to try and
> add tracktype or detailed surface information based purely on imagery
> I'd get it wrong lots of the time.  Very often when I'm updating OSM
> I'll add the details that I recorded while I was there, and look at what
> they say and what it looks like on the available imagery and the two can
> be very different.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 16:09:29 +0200
> From: Rory McCann 
> To: Andy Townsend , talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Planned revert of added surface and tracktype
> tags without local knowledge in various countries
> Message-ID: <10208f7e-2a01-5537-f6cf-69e104199...@technomancy.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> In addition (I can't find the link now but) I recall reading about the
> death of a hiker or climber who used some app which used OSM data, and
> the app didn't distinguish between track_types (or there was no
> track_type data for that route), so the hiker presumed it was OK to go
> on, and subsequently died.
>
> On 18.07.20 16:01, Andy Townsend wrote:
> > On 18/07/2020 11:53, Michael Reichert wrote:
> >> I do not believe that one c

[OSM-talk] Strava high resolution heatmap

[Volker Schmidt]

The reason why I am asking about the Strava high-resolution heatmap is as
follows:
Here in Italy we used to have well-aligned public Ortophotos that we widely
used as reference. Unfortunately this service is now down, and we have no
information about its future.
All other available imagery has variable x-y errors and, most of them, in
addition serious parallax problems in mountain areas.
This leaves us as reference for aligning the imagery only the uploaded GPX
tracks in OSM and,  hopefully, Strava heatmap data.
I do not intend to use the Strava heatmap for entering directly data in OSM
- I want them for aligning the imagery from Bing, Maxar, Esri, and Mapbox,
including the possibility to reliably spot any parallax errors.

Hence again my question: does anyone on this list know on how to access the
Strava high-resolution heatmap as imagery in JOSM or iD.
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[OSM-talk] Strava high resolution heatmap

[Volker Schmidt]

Hi,
I am trying to find out at what point we sare with the Strava high-res
heatmap.
Forma a lagal point of view: can we use it for improving OSM?
If yes, how can we do that?
Unfortunately there is a lot of out-dated information around.

Volker
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[OSM-talk] fixme=name

[Volker Schmidt]

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 09:09:09 -0400
> From: john whelan 
> To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] fixme=name
> Message-ID:
>  nr_vr93qs7pna4z...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I'm seeing a fair number of settlements with this fixme tagged on them and
> I'm not sure what the logic is.
>

It may have been a user who wanted to draw attention to the fact that she
has inserted a place without knowing the name.
I am using fixme frequently on a similar way, when I encounter ditches or
similar minor water features in the Mapillary images and in the satellite
image that are crossing the highway I am mapping. I put a bridge or culvert
on the crossing and put a stretch of the water feature in the map, without
trying to follow it entirely, I frequently put something like "fixme=
name?; flow direction?; incomplete" as I think it is important to note that
there is this water course crossing the highway , but I have not followed
it up.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Volker Schmidt]

My personal approach: when I map I routinely use three sources in parallel:
survey,  GPX track, Mapillary images, satellite photos (picking the one
with the most up-to -date pictures in the area, and aligning them to the
Italian PCN2006 pictures, which are by our experience the best-aligned
pictures available here).
As a consequence (I am not always consistent, to be honest) I would have
something like "source=survey; GPX tracks; Mapillary; Esri Images aligned
with PCN2006"
But my mapping is often not anything near to armchair mapping, I am using
the images in addition to the other tools.
I would not consider the fact that sattellite images are used, on its own
as an indication that the date need to taken with caution.


On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 15:54, Sören Reinecke 
wrote:

> Yes, I thought also about this and planned it to integrate in my concept.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
> From: Joseph Eisenberg
> To: Sören Reinecke
> CC: Volker Schmidt ,talk@openstreetmap.org
>
>
> My understanding is that the common way to describe armchair mapping,
> based on aerial imagery, is to identify the imagery source. So I often
> write:
>
> Changeset Comment: "Added and adjusted streams and rivers near Oksibil
> with ESRI"
> Changeset Source: "Esri world imagery"
>
> This makes it clear that I used Esri imagery to map the streams and
> rivers, right?
>
> - Joseph Eisenberg
>
> On 3/10/20, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote:
> > Hey
> >
> > some ideas about identifying such changes:
> >
> >
> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did armchair mapping:
> > Data updated, added amenity=restaurant
> > #armchair
> >
> > In addition if the mapper works for a company:
> > #
> > e.g. #facebook
> > #amazon
> > #microsoft
> > #apple
> >
> > Example changeset comment where a mapper did a survey and added data as
> > (s)he saw it (from the ground):
> > #survey
> >
> >
> >
> > This way we can organize our changes and Facebook and other companies and
> > the community as well know how to validate and can distinguish changesets
> > from another. I could create a wikipage where we think about this
> "changeset
> > governance"
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution
> > From: Volker Schmidt
> > To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> > CC:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>> Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
> >>>
> >>> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite
> imagery
> >>> has it.
> >>>
> >>> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
> >>> committed an error,
> >>> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever
> making
> >>> any further changes- the local mapper.
> >>>
> >>> Be very careful!
> >>
> >>
> >> I second this last line !
> >>
> >> I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
> >> Logistics in my area.
> >> I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or
> potential
> >> changes (=suspected errors).
> >> What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
> >> being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
> >> armchair-mapping efforts.
> >> I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that
> >> helps me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we
> >> need a new approach to organise digesting these massive distributed
> >> armchair-mapping interventions on OSM data.
> >> I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for
> OSM.
> >> Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
> >> risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
> >> (1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
> >> (2) demotivating non-armchair mappers
> >>
> >> I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
> >> that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that
> >> need checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to
> sort
> >> out the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with
> >> Amazon's changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere
> >> they have delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good
> number
> >> of them, and in most cases they were at least dubious)
> >>
> >> Volker
> >> (Padova, Italy)
> >
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing Daylight Map Distribution

[Volker Schmidt]

Fixing stuff in OSM purely from imagery may not be good.
>
> A local mapper who sees something may add it before any satellite imagery
> has it.
>
> If you then 'fix' this back to the satellite imagery you will have
> committed an error,
> and that error may dissuade our most important resource from ever making
> any further changes- the local mapper.
>
> Be very careful!
>

I second this last line !

I am observing an influx of mixed-quality remote edits from Amazon
Logistics in my area.
I expect this Facebook operation to produce much more changes or potential
changes (=suspected errors).
What we need for both cases and similar ones in the future is a way of
being able to identify such changes, which by their nature will be
armchair-mapping efforts.
I do not have a specific proposal, but I would appreciate a tool that helps
me, as local mapper,  find these edits, and, more importantly we need a new
approach to organise digesting these massive distributed armchair-mapping
interventions on OSM data.
I don't realistically think that banning these activities is good for OSM.
Not dealing in a systematic way with it at all presents, however, a big
risk of deteriorating the map for two reasons:
(1) bad armchair edits by Amazon and Facebook (and others)
(2) demotivating non-armchair mappers

I repeat I do not have a proposal how to handle that. My main concern is
that the required work for locally checking even only those edits that need
checking (I am assuming that at least FB has good algorithms to sort out
the dead-certain corrections beforehand. I am more sceptical with Amazon's
changing local access tagging to, essentially, "yes" everywhere they have
delivered something by delivery van. I came across a good number of them,
and in most cases they were at least dubious)

Volker
(Padova, Italy)
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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56

[Volker Schmidt]

Excellent idea.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 20:55 Sören Reinecke,  wrote:

> > I would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
> screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
> tutoring sessions.
>
> I'm trying to achieve this, see https://wiki.osm.org/User:Valor%20Naram
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56
> From: Volker Schmidt
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> CC:
>
>
> Looking back at my first steps in editing OSM: when I subscribed I was
> presented with a "who is mapping in your area" type of info. I selected a
> nearby experienced and recently-active mapper and contacted him via the OSM
> message system. He offered me,  and I happily accepted him as my tutor. I
> would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
> screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
> tutoring sessions. OSM is not only open geo data, it's also a community.
> Volker
> Italy
>
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 13:04 ,  wrote:
>
>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>>   (Simon Poole)
>>2. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>>   (Mateusz Konieczny)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +0100
>> From: Simon Poole 
>> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
>> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
>> features?
>> Message-ID: <00831175-0728-6247-e93d-68ad41c0f...@poole.ch>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
>> mention that it would be endless.
>>
>> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
>> does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
>> basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.
>>
>> That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
>> https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ <https://osmybiz.osm.ch/#/19/47.15976/8.36968>
>> which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
>> general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
>> > Is there some automatically generated website
>> > describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
>> >
>> > Something directed to a potential mappers,
>> > explicitly describing every single smallest step,
>> > for every single mappable feature.
>> >
>> > I ask as I had again a friend asking me
>> > "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
>> >
>> > And it seems to me that automatically generated
>> > set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
>> >
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.htm
>> >
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>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.sig
>> >
>>
>> 

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 56

[Volker Schmidt]

Looking back at my first steps in editing OSM: when I subscribed I was
presented with a "who is mapping in your area" type of info. I selected a
nearby experienced and recently-active mapper and contacted him via the OSM
message system. He offered me,  and I happily accepted him as my tutor. I
would promote the same approach today. And would suggest to consider
screen-sharing sessions as an additional very efficient means for such
tutoring sessions. OSM is not only open geo data, it's also a community.
Volker
Italy

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 13:04 ,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>   (Simon Poole)
>2. Re: Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at
>   complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?
>   (Mateusz Konieczny)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:37:45 +0100
> From: Simon Poole 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
> features?
> Message-ID: <00831175-0728-6247-e93d-68ad41c0f...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal, no to
> mention that it would be endless.
>
> For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs tutorial
> does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to learn the
> basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to new situations.
>
> That is different from a guided contribution model, say for example with
> https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ 
> which is preferable for people that don't want to contribute to OSM in
> general but just want to add and maintain a specific object.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 22.02.2020 um 05:37 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via talk:
> > Is there some automatically generated website
> > describing in excruciating detail how to map various features?
> >
> > Something directed to a potential mappers,
> > explicitly describing every single smallest step,
> > for every single mappable feature.
> >
> > I ask as I had again a friend asking me
> > "how to add aconstruction area/path/... to OSM".
> >
> > And it seems to me that automatically generated
> > set of such tutorials is both feasible and potentially useful.
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> -- next part --
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> Name: signature.asc
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> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20200222/41262dc6/attachment-0001.sig
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:25:29 +0100 (CET)
> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
> Cc: Talk 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial
> directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various
> features?
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> 22 Feb 2020, 10:37 by si...@poole.ch:
>
> >
> > From a pedagogic point of view I would consider that suboptimal,  no
> to mention that it would be endless.
> >
> >
> I expect that endless part may be
> solved by generating it automatically
> from iD and Vespucci presets.
> >
> > For anybody that is going to contribute more than once (and iDs
> tutorial does a good job of guiding through that), we want them to
> learn the basic concepts of OSM and enable them to extend that to  new
> situations.
> >
> >
> It is intended to be tutorial for the first edit.
>
> I remember that I was quite confused
> during making first edits.
> >
> > That is different from a guided contribution model, say for  example
> with > https://osmybiz.osm.ch/ <
> https://osmybiz.osm.ch/#/19/47.15976/8.36968>>  which is preferable for
> people that don't want to contribute to  OSM in general but just want
> to add and maintain a specific  object.
> >
> -- next part --

[OSM-talk] Teaching cyclists how to contribute to OSM

[Volker Schmidt]

Has anyone produced specific teaching material specifically to get cyclists
involved in OSM.
It should be suitable for a workshop approach.

Volker
Italy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tag:man_made=embankment

[Volker Schmidt]

If you have a road with a drop on either side then tag ways on either
> side with embankment, with the appropriate directions.
>

I thought this is normally tagged with embankment=yes on the road way. See
Key:embankment. 
In case of oddly-shaped slopes that do not follow the road geometry you can
use separate  man_made=embankment ways
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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetCam to Mapillary?

[Volker Schmidt]

I'm pretty sure
> you can from Mapillary, but never felt the need to do so. I'm glad they are
> parked there and I don't have to worry about storing them
>

Two notes of caution to this remark by Polyglot:
1) On Mapillary you can manually download your own single photos with full
EXIF info, but not sequences.
2) If the photos are not recent, you can no longer download the
unpixellized version. It still has the the full EXIF.

(2) is a recent (last year ?) change on Mapillary. I detected it because I
uploaded many photos where there are also the faces of friends (as a
by-product of running Mapillary during group bicycle tours). It used to
work, and seems still to work for recent photos.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Dialects of English | Re: iD influencing tagging

[Volker Schmidt]

I don't think there is a solution this, except better localization of
> software. Or we all just switch to Esperanto or Irish or something.
>

Esperanto is a solution, and we use it in OSM, only that OSM's Esperanto is
British English

Volker
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[OSM-talk] Help with way forward with Grab

[Volker Schmidt]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 17:32,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Help with way forward with Grab (Mishari Muqbil)
>2. Re: Help with way forward with Grab (John Whelan)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 21:23:18 +0700
> From: Mishari Muqbil 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Some people from the Thai mapping community are meeting Ajay, the mapping
> lead from Grab to discuss the quality issues we've been having with their
> mappers but before we do this I wanted input from the wider community.
> ...
> 1. What's a fair expectation from such a mapping team? On one hand there's
> the potential to add much geometry to the project, on the other hand any
> bad data has an outsized effect on utility and perceived quality. What's
> the sweet spot? Sadly Bicycle routing in the Grab mapped areas in Bangkok
> using Brouter.de is now unreliable because service roads have been added
> without information about access permission or barrier and in other cases
> ways have been connected where no connection exists.
>

I only can comment on the cycling aspects.
I fear that we can expect major problems for bicycle routing when a company
that operates motorized taxies does the mapping. There is a basic conflict
of interest: The motorized-taxi driver is only interested in information
that regards his type of vehicle, whereas a person on a cycle needs much
better information in order to be able to take advantage of this means of
transpart, i. e. many more routes are open to bicycles than to cars, when
the map has the necessary additional information.
When I started with OSM locally in my area (Veneto, Northern Italy) many
minor roads had been mapped rapidly by one single user by armchair mapping,
and when I started with using the map for bicycle tours (using bicycle
routing) I kept encountering large numbers of errors, mostly in two
categories: false positives because of physical barriers invisible on
aerial photos, and, many more, false negatives i.e. minor ways between
buildings that would accommodate bicycles, but were missing on the map.
Essentially the amount of work needed to obtain a good map for bicycles is
considerably higher than for a map that will only be used for car routing.
Mapping for bicycles requires more details, like minor roads that can onluy
be used by pedestrians or bicycles with accurate width plus mapping of all
obstacles, including the maxwidth of all barriers.
The false negatives can only be eliminated by survey and/or arm-chair
mapping using street-level photography (in my case Mapillary) on bicycle.
I would imagine that this basic issue is present even more in SE Asian
countries.
I have no solution to propose, I can only confirm from my own experience
that this is a real problem.




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[OSM-talk] UJEM (Unidentified JOSM Error Message)

[Volker Schmidt]

Help!
Since about three or four days I get this UJEM with every
moving/zooming-in/zooming-out of the map window:
"Error retrieving Cluster(s)
Would you like to suppress further notifications"
Someone else's seen it?
I have an up-to-date josm-tested.jar on Windows 10.

I am asking first here, in case someone else has already seen this, before
staring to disable the plugins one-by-one to find out which component of
JOSM is causing this.

Thanks in advance

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map?

[Volker Schmidt]

gpsvisualizer.com

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018, 17:08  Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map? (_ dikkeknodel)
>2.  How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map? (nwastra)
>3. Re: How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map? (Yves)
>4. weeklyOSM #432 2018-10-23-2018-10-29 (weeklyteam)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2018 14:09:12 +
> From: _ dikkeknodel 
> To: "Talk @ OSM" 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM map?
> Message-ID:
> <
> vi1pr01mb42070d85d450915a776c571ea0...@vi1pr01mb4207.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Ever since I moved to Switzerland over a year ago I’ve been both hiking in
> the mountains and updating OSM details a lot. Since I hike at least 20 km
> every weekend, it must have totaled to about 1200 km by now all across the
> country. I would love to get an overview of where I have been so far.
>
> Since I’ve got a GPX file of almost every hike, the data is there. I am
> now looking for a nice graphical way to plot all of these files at once on
> a nice OSM map, OpenTopoMap as a base layer would be great.
> I’ve been searching for a while how to arrange this (without much
> programming knowledge), but I am kind of lost at the moment.
>
> Does anybody have a hint?
>
> Cheers,
> dikkeknodel
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>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 00:48:19 +1000
> From: nwastra 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk]  How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM
> map?
> Message-ID: <7b5934cc-0e58-4d77-86ca-ac8dfab28...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Hi
> I have used http://www.mygpsfiles.com/app/ 
> where you can select a years of gpx tracks and drag and drop on to the map
> but it only has google, etc maps.
>
> I just tried JOSM and used the left side open icon select and load 3 years
> of gpx traces from my hard drive and they displayed fine using an imagery
> background of OpenCycleMap, OpenTopoMap, OpenStreetMap Carto. It looks
> great.
>
> >
> >> On 4 Nov 2018, at 12:09 am, _ dikkeknodel  > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Ever since I moved to Switzerland over a year ago I’ve been both hiking
> in the mountains and updating OSM details a lot. Since I hike at least 20
> km every weekend, it must have totaled to about 1200 km by now all across
> the country. I would love to get an overview of where I have been so far.
> >>
> >> Since I’ve got a GPX file of almost every hike, the data is there. I am
> now looking for a nice graphical way to plot all of these files at once on
> a nice OSM map, OpenTopoMap as a base layer would be great.
> >> I’ve been searching for a while how to arrange this (without much
> programming knowledge), but I am kind of lost at the moment.
> >>
> >> Does anybody have a hint?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> dikkeknodel
> >> ___
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk@openstreetmap.org 
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk <
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk>
>
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> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2018 17:01:23 +0100
> From: Yves 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] How to get an overview of multiple gpx on OSM
> map?
> Message-ID: <14ebe491-d9ca-4d64-8e22-578790ddd...@mailbox.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Drag and drop your gpx in Qgis?
> Yves
>
> Le 3 novembre 2018 15:09:12 GMT+01:00, _ dikkeknodel <
> dikkekno...@hotmail.com> a écrit :
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Ever since I moved to Switzerland over a year ago I’ve been both hiking
> >in the mountains and updating OSM details a lot. Since I hike at least
> >20 km every weekend, it must have totaled to about 1200 km by now all
> >across the country. I would love to get an overview of where I have
> >been so far.
> 

[OSM-talk] User deleting abandoned and rejected proposals on the wiki

[Volker Schmidt]

What's wrong with cleaning up the wiki?
>

Nothing, but, in my view that is different from removing obsolete or
rejected pages.

What would be useful, is to clearly mark all such material clearly.

But I would keep it for a number of reasons:

- you come across a "strange" tagging which is only documented in such
pages. Often useful for understanding the purpose of the tags.

- you are about to make proposal for tagging some feature. It is useful to
be able to find abandoned or refused tagging approaches in that context.

- someone is making the same (refused or abandoned) proposal again)

The wiki is in that sense also a historic repository.

What one could think about is to create a separate section "abandoned or
refused" pages in the wiki.

Volker
Italy
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[OSM-talk] OSM editor for cycling infrastructure on smartphone?

[Volker Schmidt]

Is there anywhere an app for editing specifically bicycle infrastructure
elements in OSM: bicycle paths, shared foot-bicycle paths, road crossings,
bollards and other assorted handicaps on cycle paths, cycle racks,...

Volker
Padova, Italy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Odd mapping in Atar Mauritania

[Volker Schmidt]

>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/330511654#map=16/20.5184/-13.0507
>
> But you really need to zoom in using JOSM to see the problem.
>
> The best way to describe it is the road network is a grid but each block of
> buildings has been mapped as a single building rather than the six to a
> dozen separate buildings that are there and I'm not sure what to do.  It's
> not just in Atar and there are a large number of them.  I've seen something
> similar by HOT mappers before but not on this scale.
>
> One mapper has a thousand untagged ways in Mauritania most of which are of
> this type.


I would go slow on this.
I looked out of curiosity a bit closer, and it looks as if the mappers
involved use a gruadual approach:
they first outline groups of buildings and tag it as a single building or
religious or hospital. At a later stage they (plan to) add details to each
of these groups by adding individual building outlines and footpaths
connecting them to the roads.
One could have done this with a different approach using
landuse=residential|religious|... , but I would not interfere with the
local community's approach without dialogue.
It looks as there is at least one experienced mapper involved in many of
these changesets: Cheibany, 
He has a background in urban planning according to his OSM user page. I
would be surprised if you could not communicate with him.

Volker
Italy
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Re: [OSM-talk] class=bicycle usage

[Volker Schmidt]

If other cyclists use these ways too ... then it is a 'route' and should be
> mapped as such.
>
No.
Routes of type=bicycle (the ones that are visible on OpencycleMap,
Waymarked Trails, and others) are waymarked routes. Other terms used are
"signposted" or "trailblazed". See Cycle routes wiki page [1].

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes



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Re: [OSM-talk] Finding duplicate cycleways

[Volker Schmidt]

>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/oEm


Nice tool, thanks!

Unfortunately it does not (yet)catch also the segregated and not-segregated
foot-cycle-paths that are tagged using the JOSM presets (highway=path,
foot=designated, bicycle=designated, segregated=yes|no)
I am not an Overpass-Turbo expert and don't dare to add them to your
script.

I would like to come to a common agreement and document that
> highway=cycleway on distinct geometry is preferable to having just a
> cycleway=track attribute on a road. In the past some of the separate
> cycleways I had mapped have been deleted in favor of attributes on the
> road. The latter is an inferior representation (IMHO) because:
>
> 1. it makes it harder to add more attributes to the cycleway (including
> maxspeed, surface, turn restrictions, width, access restrictions)
>
> 2. it makes it unclear or at least much more error prone to determine which
> attributes of the road also belong to the cycleway (and vice versa)
>
> 3. it removes the geometric details (position, shape, unclear position of
> things between (or not) the cycleway and the road like grass, guard rails,
> telephone booths, poles, crossings between driveways, etc.)
>
> Therefore I believe we should recommend that fixing duplicates as of this
> thread should be done by removing the attribute cycleway=track, not
> deleting the highway=cycleway.
>

I fully agree on this. Please do not remove separate cycleways, unless they
are wrongly mapped cycle lanes (an error which I encounter from time to
time)
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for government (joost schouppe)

[Volker Schmidt]

I cannot contribute cases where such a collaboration actually happened, but
two very practical examples where it would be extremely useful.

Both regard bicycle aspects of OSM.

In my part of the world (Italy) the regional administration has no
region-wide data on
- cycling infrastructure (bicycle paths and lanes)
- signposted touristic bicycle routes

OpenStreetMap has much of this data already, it's not complete and it's not
always up-to-date, but it is far better than what the regional
administration has. I am trying to push this as a joint project of bicycle
associations and OSM individuals.

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] Applying different restrictions in different directions on a road

[Volker Schmidt]

"
oneway=yes
oneway:bicycle=no
oneway:PSV=no
"
should do the trick

Volker
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[OSM-talk] Pic4Carto: efficient pictures viewer for micro-mapping

[Volker Schmidt]

Hi PanierAvide

great product!
Nearly overlooked it in the mail-stream.

Do you plan to add the possibility to visualize single picture locations in
a future version?
Would be useful in areas with many pictures.
(if that features is already implemented, please tell me how to get to it)

Volker


On 16 November 2016 at 13:00,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: introducing localities in wikipedia (Rory McCann)
>2. Re: introducing localities in wikipedia (Rory McCann)
>3. Central Place to Reach Wiki Administrators? (Michael Reichert)
>4. Pic4Carto: efficient pictures viewer for micro-mapping
>   (PanierAvide)
>5. Re: Taglists support for rendering examples (Matthijs Melissen)
>6. local community builders, unite? (joost schouppe)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:11:39 +0100
> From: Rory McCann 
> To: Simon Poole , talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] introducing localities in wikipedia
> Message-ID: <109247ea-7670-bce7-667f-0f69fefe8...@technomancy.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 15/11/16 10:11, Simon Poole wrote:
> > In some aspects wikipedia is completely different than OSM, for example
> > WP has the rule of "no original research", we on the other hand want
> > exactly that (via survey).
>
> Exactly. There's a very good wiki page for Wikipedians explaining some
> of the differences:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users
>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
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> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:11:39 +0100
> From: Rory McCann 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] introducing localities in wikipedia
> Message-ID: <109247ea-7670-bce7-667f-0f69fefe8...@technomancy.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 15/11/16 10:11, Simon Poole wrote:
> > In some aspects wikipedia is completely different than OSM, for example
> > WP has the rule of "no original research", we on the other hand want
> > exactly that (via survey).
>
> Exactly. There's a very good wiki page for Wikipedians explaining some
> of the differences:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users
>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
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>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 16:52:07 +0100
> From: Michael Reichert 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Central Place to Reach Wiki Administrators?
> Message-ID: <840ee7c1-abd9-89d9-5ae2-8429b9194...@gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> is there any method to reach all administrators of the OSM Wiki [1] in
> one go, e.g. to ask them to block a user? Currently, I have to select
> one of them and ask him at his personal discussion page. But if he has
> more important things to do, it may take some time until he reacts.
> Therefore, it is a game of change to reach them.
>
> The Data Working Group offers a central way to reach its members, it's
> d...@osmfoundation.org
>
> A central discussion page where to place messages to the administrators
> would help.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/sysop
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
> -- next part --
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>
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:43:40 +0100
> From: PanierAvide 
> To: Talk Openstreetmap 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Pic4Carto: efficient pictures viewer for
> micro-mapping
> Message-ID

[OSM-talk] image file as background in uMap

[Volker Schmidt]

I have a jpg image file that I would like to use as a layer in a uMap map.
Is this possible?
If so, what's the recommended workflow to warp it and to insert it.

Volker
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[OSM-talk] Georeferencing lots of photos using JOSM

[Volker Schmidt]

Hi Russ



> Solution: I remember where I took every photo (but if I see you
> walking on the street I won't remember your name; go figure), so it's
> just a matter of getting a lat/lon and storing it with every
> photo. So, I look at the photo, and use JOSM to visit that location. I
> add a node at the location I took a photo, use Ctrl-Alt-C to copy the
> lat/lon, then Ctrl-Z to remove the node. Then I copy the lat/lon into
> a shell command called "setgps" (included below), which takes three
> parameters: lat, long, and the photo. It uses exiftool to stuff the
> lat/lon and hemisphere into the photo.
>

There is at least one free (but not open) program for Windows that does
what you want for JPEG pictures: http://www.geosetter.de/en/

   1. select the photo in the folder
   2. locate the position of your photo with a marker on the map (Google or
   Google Hybrid or OSM - your choice)
   3. click the "import position" button
   4. click "save changes"

Volker
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[OSM-talk] Involving Cyclists in OSM

[Volker Schmidt]

A few suggestions.

On-line maps for cyclists:

   - Opencyclemap (Opencyclmap.org) shows both infrastructure for bicycles
   as means of transportation (cycle paths etc.) and infrastructure for cycle
   tourism (cycle routes)
   - http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org shows cycle routes
   - http://hikebikemap.org/ (EU only) shows hiking and biking routes


Routing for cyclists:
Several sites offer offline routing for cyclists, for example:

   - graphhopper maps (https://graphhopper.com/maps/)
   - bikemap.net (www.bikemap.net/en/)
   - Naviki (https://www.naviki.org>)
   - cyclestreets (UK only - http://www.cyclestreets.net/)
   - http://bikehike.co.uk/
   - bikeroutetoaster.com


OSM maps for cycling navigation with routing:

   - OSM maps for Garmin navigation devices:
   - velomap/MTBmap,
  - openfietsmap (www.openfietsmap.nl/)
   - OSM maps as native maps on navigation devices for cyclists:
  - Garmin edge Touring and edge 1000
  - Mio cyclo (http://www.mio.com/product-Bike-Navigation-Overview.htm)
  - teasi (http://www.teasi.eu)

Street-level photos:
I would also mention Mapillary (mapillary.com) which is particularly suited
to document cycling infrastructure
(for examples on the Mapillary site, go to Padova, Italy and filter for
user "voschix" - many of my Mapillary pictures are taken on bicycle)

Volker
(Padova, Italy)
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[OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[Volker Schmidt]

I realize that I was not clear with my comment.
My point is that we cannot resolve this issue by simply deleting data.
Former railroads, or for former (historic) streets (as in Roman Street) or
former important road routes (like historic Route 66) could best be handled
by relations.
To take as an example a former railroad route:
The relation would comprise of modern streets, agricultural tracks, paths,
embankments (even without any path) plus, possibly, buildings (which today
in most cases are used in a completely different way or are in ruins)

The tagging that is most used (I think) is
route=historic
historic=railway

example:
relation 3183397

(my own attempts are not tagged like this - I m going to change them to
this style)
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Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[Volker Schmidt]

I would like to argue for a general
do-not-remove-if-you-do-not-have-the-original-mapper's-ok-beforehand policy
for these and similar cases.

I have myself mapped a couple of abandoned railways where the remains were
often no longer recognizable individually as traces of a former railway,
but as a whole, in particular in satellite photos it is clearly visible.
This includes roads, paths, and vegetation strips that mark the former
track, and former railway buildings.
In my case the specific interest is to keep the memory of these former
railway routes alive with the scope to have documentation ready to argue
for the (partial) re-utilization as bicycle routes.

Two other types of routes, not railway-related, also spring to mind:

Historic Route 66 (which is actually being recreated as an official USBRS
route for cycle tourists, trying to follow as much as possible the original
roads).

Another example where historic roads have traditional appeared on maps are
the Roman Roads on UK Ordnance Survey maps.

Best regards from Italy

Volker
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[OSM-talk] Subject: The man who grew a church from trees

[Volker Schmidt]

>
> Wonder how our friends in NZ will tag/ have tagged this:
>
>
> http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/home-property/nz-gardener/69848179/the-man-who-grew-a-church-from-trees
>
>
Maybe like this:
http://osm.org/go/0IEWcunXN--?layers=D&m=

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk] bicycle=no and cycleway=lane conflicting?

[Volker Schmidt]

> Ok, I've been there and surveyed and it is clear. It is a pedestrian
> area with a subsign "bicycles and buses allowed".
>
>
>
That means that the tag cycleway=lane needs to be removed and the tag
bus=yes added
I would still at least tell the original mapper why you changed it.
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[OSM-talk] bicycle=no and cycleway=lane

[Volker Schmidt]

From: Martin Koppenhoefer 
>
> > but "what does this combination of tags mean for bicycles".
>
> IMHO it says there is a bicycle lane, but you cannot use it by bike (as you
> can't use any of the lanes by bike, including those for cars).
>

I beg to differ.

My reasoning was in analogy to a street with compulsory-use cycle lanes
with tags like:
highway=residential|
bicycle=no
cycleway=lane

example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7036100

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk] bicycle=no and cycleway=lane conflicting?

[Volker Schmidt]

1) For me there is no a-priori conflict: according to the tagging, this is
a pedestrian street, where you cannot ride your bicycle, except on a cycle
lane which is somewhere on this pedestrian street. Why should a pedestrian
street not have a bicycle lane like any other street.
Or am I missing something?

2) have you talked to the user mritz who put the bicycle=no tag there? He
may know the local situation.

Volker

Padova, Italy

>
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:03:42 +0200
> From: Maarten Deen 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] bicycle=no and cycleway=lane conflicting?
> Message-ID: <9be720d7ddc344ffa3a382b224a4d...@xs4all.nl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> I came across this example [1] where a way has bicycle=no and
> cycleway=lane. I was using brouter [2] for some bicyclerouting and one
> of the rules for bikerouting there is that bicycle=no means no bicycles
> are allowed.
> IMHO these two tags are also conflicting and the bicycle=no should be
> removed. Any thoughts?
>
> [1] 
> [2] 
>
> Maarten
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:51:34 +0200
> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] bicycle=no and cycleway=lane conflicting?
> Message-ID: <20150409115134.7b67a6d2@Grisznak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> [bicycle=no; cycleway=lane] means that there is a lane for bicycles but
> cycling is anyway not allowed there.
>
> Typically it would be a tagging mistake, usable cycleway lanes should
> be tagged as [cycleway=lane].
>
> On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 10:03:42 +0200
> Maarten Deen  wrote:
>
> > I came across this example [1] where a way has bicycle=no and
> > cycleway=lane. I was using brouter [2] for some bicyclerouting and
> > one of the rules for bikerouting there is that bicycle=no means no
> > bicycles are allowed.
> > IMHO these two tags are also conflicting and the bicycle=no should be
> > removed. Any thoughts?
> >
> > [1] 
> > [2] 
> >
> > Maarten
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
> --
>
> End of talk Digest, Vol 128, Issue 6
> 
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing across parks

[Volker Schmidt]

OK, my answer should have been more clear:

   1. we need a tag for the area: stay_on_path=yes|no
   2. we want routers to cross parks with stay_on_path=no
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing across parks

[Volker Schmidt]

> Subject: [OSM-talk] Routing across parks
>
> For example let's use parks. Both of the foot routers won't cross the
> park unless there's a specific path way. However, as users can wander
> about anywhere they like there are no marked paths, not even worn
> ground. (I would post an example but OSM has just gone down)
>

If I understand correctly that you want routing to cross a park as long as
the way in and the way out are connected to the perimeter of the park. This
is only correct in parks where you are free to walk anywhere. Most parks in
continental Europe do not work this way. Typically, but not always, you
have to stay on the paths.

To solve this, one needs possibly a new (?) tag for parks like
stay_on_path=yes|no
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[OSM-talk] Mapping dangerous bicycle locations?

[Volker Schmidt]

I have just added this comment to the page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/hazard
Subdivision of the hazard namespace

To me it would come naturally to subdivide the namespace as follows for
different users of the road:

   - hazard:general=


   - hazard:pedestrian=


   - hazard:motor_vehicle=


   - hazard:bicycle=


   - etc.

(This could absorb 1:1 the existing cycle_hazard tagging)

The main reason for such a subdivision is obviously that the hazards for
the different users are different."

On 8 March 2015 at 15:59, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> I have just added this comment to the page
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/hazard
> Subdivision of the hazard namespace
>
> To me it would come naturally to subdivide the namespace as follows for
> different users of the road:
>
>- hazard:general=
>
>
>- hazard:pedestrian=
>
>
>- hazard:motor_vehicle=
>
>
>- hazard:bicycle=
>
>
>- etc.
>
> (This could absorb 1:1 the existing cycle_hazard tagging)
>
> The main reason for such a subdivision is obviously that the hazards for
> the different users are different."
>
>
> On 8 March 2015 at 13:00,  wrote:
>
>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Simon Poole)
>>2. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Eugene Alvin Villar)
>>3. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Tom Hughes)
>>4. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Christoph Hormann)
>>5. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Martin Koppenhoefer)
>>6. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Stefan Keller)
>>7. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Tobias Preuss)
>>8. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Martin Koppenhoefer)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 23:15:47 +0100
>> From: Simon Poole 
>> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] High load on the rendering servers?
>> Message-ID: <54fb7893.4070...@poole.ch>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>> Jon Burgess tracked the issue down to a way node being dragged from
>> Japan to Brazil on the 3rd of this month, creating a very very long way
>> that increased the rendering time for a large number of tiles at high
>> zoom levels.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> Am 07.03.2015 um 21:39 schrieb Grant Slater:
>> > Hi Andrew,
>> >
>> > Yes were are aware there is an issue. We haven't yet tracked down the
>> issue.
>> > We have been discussing it in #osm-dev on http://irc.openstreetmap.org
>> today.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Grant
>> > Part of the OSM sysadmin
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6 March 2015 at 15:20, Andrew Guertin 
>> wrote:
>> >> For the past few days, lots of things I've changed haven't had their
>> tiles
>> >> re-rendered, and I noticed that the servers are reporting very high
>> load and
>> >> lots of dropped tiles:
>> http://munin.openstreetmap.org/renderd-week.html
>> >>
>> >> Based on my (completely uneducated) reading of the graphs there, it
>> looks
>> >> like something is filling the Priority Request Queue and keeping it
>> full,
>> >> and there's very little time for anything else. (It looks like the
>> Request
>> >> Queue and the Low Priority Request Queue are also being kept full).
>> >>
>> >> Anyone know what's causing this?
>> >>
>> >> --Andrew
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> talk mailing list
>> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> > ___
>> > talk mailing list
>> > talk@openst

Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 127, Issue 13

[Volker Schmidt]

I have just added this comment to the page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Proposed_features/hazard
Subdivision of the hazard namespace

To me it would come naturally to subdivide the namespace as follows for
different users of the road:

   - hazard:general=


   - hazard:pedestrian=


   - hazard:motor_vehicle=


   - hazard:bicycle=


   - etc.

(This could absorb 1:1 the existing cycle_hazard tagging)

The main reason for such a subdivision is obviously that the hazards for
the different users are different."


On 8 March 2015 at 13:00,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Simon Poole)
>2. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Eugene Alvin Villar)
>3. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Tom Hughes)
>4. Re: High load on the rendering servers? (Christoph Hormann)
>5. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Martin Koppenhoefer)
>6. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Stefan Keller)
>7. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Tobias Preuss)
>8. Re: Mapping dangerous bicycle locations? (Martin Koppenhoefer)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2015 23:15:47 +0100
> From: Simon Poole 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] High load on the rendering servers?
> Message-ID: <54fb7893.4070...@poole.ch>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> Jon Burgess tracked the issue down to a way node being dragged from
> Japan to Brazil on the 3rd of this month, creating a very very long way
> that increased the rendering time for a large number of tiles at high
> zoom levels.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 07.03.2015 um 21:39 schrieb Grant Slater:
> > Hi Andrew,
> >
> > Yes were are aware there is an issue. We haven't yet tracked down the
> issue.
> > We have been discussing it in #osm-dev on http://irc.openstreetmap.org
> today.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Grant
> > Part of the OSM sysadmin
> >
> >
> > On 6 March 2015 at 15:20, Andrew Guertin  wrote:
> >> For the past few days, lots of things I've changed haven't had their
> tiles
> >> re-rendered, and I noticed that the servers are reporting very high
> load and
> >> lots of dropped tiles: http://munin.openstreetmap.org/renderd-week.html
> >>
> >> Based on my (completely uneducated) reading of the graphs there, it
> looks
> >> like something is filling the Priority Request Queue and keeping it
> full,
> >> and there's very little time for anything else. (It looks like the
> Request
> >> Queue and the Low Priority Request Queue are also being kept full).
> >>
> >> Anyone know what's causing this?
> >>
> >> --Andrew
> >>
> >> ___
> >> talk mailing list
> >> talk@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
> -- next part --
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: signature.asc
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 473 bytes
> Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> URL: <
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20150307/7a03e42f/attachment-0001.sig
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 12:28:14 +0800
> From: Eugene Alvin Villar 
> To: Simon Poole 
> Cc: OpenStreetMap 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] High load on the rendering servers?
> Message-ID:
> <
> caphqi6lp9msyrvsjlweplpz6e3glxl6bzrk3pru_f0gmaiz...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> >
> > Jon Burgess tracked the issue down to a way node being dragged from
> > Japan to Brazil on the 3rd of this month, creating a very very long way
> > that increased the rendering time for a large number of tiles at high
> > zoom levels.
> >
>
> Wow. This constitutes an extremely simple way to mount a DoS attack on the
> OSM tileservers. I will have to assume that the Operations WG is already
> thinking of ideas on how to prevent this possibility in the future.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20150308/b853e2b8/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2015 08:45:51 +
> From: Tom Hughes 
> T

Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some loop trip founder?

[Volker Schmidt]

> From: Stefan Keller 
>
>
> Hi all
>
> Have a look at POITour: http://poitour.ch ...
> It's a semester thesis project prototype (open source) of a student
> here at Geometa Lab.
>
> Hi Stefan,

extend the search to work also outside Switzerland and add routing for
cycle tourists, then you have a real winner.

Regards

Volker

Padova. Italy
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[OSM-talk] Garmin nuvi track recording

[Volker Schmidt]

I tried to find, unsuccessfully, information about track recording with
GARMIN nuvi models.
I had occasion to use a nuvi 50 (with OSM maps) for car navigation. It
worked fine apart from the track recording that seems to be permanently in
"lock on road" mode, which is not useful if you want to use the recorded
tracks for mapping.
Is there any similarly simple-to-use Garmin model that does permit to set
the track recording without "lock on road", or is there a trick to make the
the nuvi 50 forget the lock-on-road mode?

Volker, Italy
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some loop trip founder?

[Volker Schmidt]

For bicyles:

I know of four outdoors GPS devices that do this, using on-board OSM maps:

   - Garmin edge touring
   - Garmin edge 1000
   - Mio 300
   - Teasi one

And then there is the naviki.org web site:

   - just enter a trip  A-B, select your bicycle type (except "shortest
   route") and click SEND.
   - click ADD DESTINATION and enter A to get a trip A-B-A
   - click ROUND TRIP
   - Your are done. The results may vary from one try to the next for the
   same route

Volker
Padova/Italy



>
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[OSM-talk] Monitoring route relations

[Volker Schmidt]

I try to find a tool that continuously monitors all members of a relation
for changes. Specifically I would like to be informed automatically by
email when any of the members of a bicycle route relation is modified.

I am aware of the relation analyser sites that do this on request and only
test for discontinuities in the relation.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging of private roads (Matthijs Melissen)

[Volker Schmidt]

> Residential roads in the UK often seem to have 'private road' signs, such
> as:
>
> - 'Private road'
> - 'Private road no parking'
> - 'Private road no parking no turning'
> - 'Residents only no unauthorised parking or turning'
>
> How do people tag these roads? For which of these would you use
> access=private?
>
> I would tag them all with access=destination, unless there are additional
signs that forbid entering.
A "private road" is privately owned and maintained, but you normally may
use it to reach the properties facing it as visitor or for delivery
purposes.

Volker
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Re: [OSM-talk] RFC updated: OSM Attribution Mark

[Volker Schmidt]

(I have only now looked into this thread. Please forgive me if my comment
duplicates what has been said earlier)

My main concern with the little "OSM" symbol is that I fear that
"OpenStreetMap" is not (yet) sufficiently well known as "brand" to the
general public that we could drop it. Anything we put on the map should
contain the full name, be it logo or be it text.

Volker
Padova, Italy
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[OSM-talk] Download a route relation as GPX

[Volker Schmidt]

If it is a hiking or biking route you can get the GPX also from
http://waymarkedtrails.org
Also on this site you have the same problem that the GPX track is split in
segments, but the advantage is that you can download the segmented GPX in
one go - you do not need to select manually all the segments you are
interested in.
To convert you can use the JOSM trick as already described in this thread.

Volker


Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:40:30 +0100
> From: "Dave F." 
> To: OSM Talk 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Download a route relation as GPX?
> Message-ID: <516d70ee.8000...@madasafish.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi
>
> I've found this site - http://osmrm.openstreetmap.de/index.jsp which
> will allows me to download a route relation in GPX format, but it splits
> the route into segments & only get them one at a time. Is there a way to
> get the route in one go?
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] fences, trees and houses

[Volker Schmidt]

> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:04:38 +1300
> From: Robin Paulson 
> To: OSM Talk 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] fences, trees and houses
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> i've done some quite detailed editing near where i live, i'd appreciate
> anyone who is interested taking a look and responding.
>
> i'm not sure what to make of the result. for one, my partner, a
> non-mapper, has told me she finds it very confusing, which potentially
> raises questions
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.91503&lon=174.77973&zoom=16&layers=M
>
> cheers,
>
> --
> robin
>
> http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University
>
>
> Hi Robin,

one aspect which I think people forget when doing detailed mapping, is data
maintenance in the future. It is very nice to have good and detailed data,
but they become useless over time if not maintained. The more data you
record, the bigger the maintenance task.
I personally prefer good, but less detailed data covering larger areas to
very detailed data restricted to small areas.

Volker
(Padova, Italy)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine

[Volker Schmidt]

There has been recently a similar discussion in the Italian OSM talk list.

Basically the outcome - I hope I am summing up correctly - is that the name
tags in Italy should contain the official names, which in Italy's bi- or
sometimes multi-lingual areas appear in several languages on the official
road signs.
So the road sign says "Bolzano-Bozen", hence the name tag is
name=Bolzano/Bozen. In addition there will be name tags name:de=Bozen
name:it=Bolzano.

In the discussion some contributors pointed to the different approach in
Switzerland.
In Switzerland there is only one official name and that is the name in the
local language. So it would be name=Genève, name:de=Genf, name:it=Ginevra

The legal bases in Italy and in Switzerland are different but clear, and
the road signs in both countries reflect the different legal approaches
accurately.

If the road signs in the Crimea reflect the legal situation correctly then
the mappers should take what they see on the road signs, plus whatever
name:xx tags are useful. If however the road signs (which are important for
the users of the map) do not reflect the legal situation, than you have a
conflict.

(In that case I would tend to put in the "name" tag in OSM what is on the
road signs, giving priority to the map users' interest, but this is my
personal opinion)

Volker
Padova, Italy
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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 95, Issue 37

[Volker Schmidt]

There has been recently a similar discussion in the Italian OSM talk list.
Basically the outcome - I hope I am summing up correctly - is that the name
tags in Italy should contain the official names, which in Italy's bi- or
sometimes multi-lingual areas appear in several languages on the officio
road signs.
So the road sign says "Bolzano-Bozen", hence the name tag is
name=Bolzano/Bozen. In addition there will be name tags name:de=Bozen
name:it=Bolzano.

In the discussion some contributors pointed to the different approach in
Switzerland.
In Switzerland there is only one official name and that is the name in the
local language. So it would be name=Genève, name:de=Genf, name:it=Ginevra

The legal bases in Italy and in Switzerland are different but clear, and
the road signs in both countries reflect the different legal approaches
accurately.

If the road signs in the Crimea reflect the legal situation correctly then
the mappers should take what they see on the road signs, plus whatever
name:xx tags are useful. If however the road signs (which are important for
the users of the map) do not reflect the legal situation, than you have a
conflict.
(In that case I would tend to put in the "name" tag in OSM what is on the
road signs, giving priority to the map users' interest, but this is my
personal opinion)

Volker
Padova, Italy



On 25 July 2012 09:35,  wrote:

> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: City routing grid for Australia and the US (Svavar Kjarrval)
>2. Re: City routing grid for Australia and the US (Mike N)
>3. Re: City routing grid for Australia and the US (Toby Murray)
>4. Re: City routing grid for Australia and the US
>   (Jaakko Helleranta.com)
>5. Re: City routing grid for Australia and the US (Svavar Kjarrval)
>6. Re: Coastline generation resumed (Paul Norman)
>7. Naming disputes in Ukraine (Frederik Ramm)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 18:59:49 +
> From: Svavar Kjarrval 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] City routing grid for Australia and the US
> Message-ID: <500ef0a5.2000...@kjarrval.is>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I checked the terms for the Google Maps API and noticed that the
> collection of data, as done by the tool, is forbidden. Does anyone know
> of any other services which could provide reference distances?
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On 23/07/12 21:42, Pieren wrote:
> > I've not checked the tool in details but if I understand correctly,
> > the reference distance numbers are coming from Google API. Imo,
> > massively extracting distance like this is a copyright infringement,
> > even if it's just to "compare", in the same way using GMaps to check
> > the street names correctness in OSM.
> >
> > Pieren
> >
> > ___
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> > talk@openstreetmap.org
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 15:04:33 -0400
> From: Mike N 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] City routing grid for Australia and the US
> Message-ID: <500ef1c1.3000...@att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 7/24/2012 2:59 PM, Svavar Kjarrval wrote:
> > Does anyone know
> > of any other services which could provide reference distances?
>
>   Does anyone have a pre-redaction planet that could have an OSRM
> instance created?   I would think that this would not violate the ODBL
> or CC-BY of either state if it is just used for route comparison.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:50:43 -0500
> From: Toby Murray 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] City routing grid for Australia and the US
> Message-ID:
> <
> cajeqkgsfmcg_xpusiszrqhjsnprxo6qmdldohop_qbsjnrq...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Mike N  wrote:
> > On 7/24/2012 2:59 PM, Svavar Kjarrval wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone know
> >> of any other services which could provide reference distances?
> >

[OSM-talk] Assistance on reverting deletion of a relation

[Volker Schmidt]

Carsten;

I have used succesfully answer #2 (by Martin) in
http://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/4019/how-do-i-restore-data-that-was-lost-during-editing

Volker

--

>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 09:46:30 +0200
> From: Carsten Nielsen 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Assistance on reverting deletion of a relation
> Message-ID: <4fcdb956.1040...@toensberg.dk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Can somebody explain how to revert a deleted relation to the last revision
> before the
> deletion ?
>
> The relation http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/157837 was
> accidentally deleted
> as part of a changeset containing other changes that should not be deleted.
>
> I now it is possible to revert a full changeset (script stuff) and also to
> revert a single
> way (Potlach 1) but I have no idea of how to revert a single relation.
>
> When trying to view the history of the relation i keep getting timeouts,
> so I cannot
> recreate the relation manually.
>
> Carsten
>
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] OSM cycle map - ?excessive focus on long-distance routes

[Volker Schmidt]

Richard,


> A Dutchman posted a map of the main cycle routes in Utrecht, and I asked
> why it looked so different to OSM/OCM
> http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/looking-down-on-cyclists/
>
> Q: Why does the map above look different to what?s in OpenStreetMap?
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.0924&lon=5.1317&zoom=12&layers=C
> A: The map here shows only those routes the city thinks are main routes. In
> reality there are far more routes and far more streets with cycling
> infrastructure (almost all major streets) as you can see in OpenStreetMap.
> The few red lines you see in OpenStreetMap are the national cycle routes
> but they have nothing to do with main routes in the city.
>
> "the national cycle routes ... have nothing to do with main routes in the
> city"
>
> Obviously, OCM can render what it likes, but I think this neatly
> illustrates that OSM tagging of cycle routes is missing a trick or two
>

I would not agree with this criticism.
Routes on OSM do correspond (or should correspond) to signposted routes on
the ground. There are intentionally different levels: international,
national, regional, local routes.
With regard to long-distance routes, these are indeed in many cases not the
routes that local commuters would use. They are intended for cycle
tourists.
Routes for commuters are a different story. Firstly, they are in most cases
individual - each commuter wants to go from his home to his place of work.
Secondly, I would expect that commuters or local users would end up in
local or regional cycle routes (dark and light blue routes in OCM).
In the Utrecht example, it's not clear whether the "main cycle routes"
shown in
https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/looking-down-on-cyclists/ are
signposted routes or simply the streets/cyclepaths most used by local
commuters.
If the latter, than OSM cannot tag them anyway, because there is nothing on
the ground that tells about routes streeets/cyclepaths preferred by the
users.

A local commuter should in fact use services like cyclestreets (or the
local equivalent) to establish his preferred daily commute. Occasional
users should orient themselves by following signposted routes.

Or have I completely misunderstood your point?

Volker

(Padova, Italy)

http://opencyclemap.org/?zoom=13&lat=52.08908&lon=5.10929&layers=B00

>
> Richard
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> End of talk Digest, Vol 93, Issue 6
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[OSM-talk] handheld gps unit

[Volker Schmidt]

For what's worth: I have been using for the last couple of months a
new-series etrex (etrex 30). This is the first Garmin handheld with a chip
also for GLONASS. I have done some precision checks with the device mounted
on the bicycle handlebar. Running with GLONASS and WAAS enabled I easily
achieved precision ranges of the order of one meter under open sky and with
good weather.
The checks consisted in cycling along narrow roads and comparing outbound
and return track whith high-resolution well-aligned satellite pictures.

The precision is good, but my overall judgement of the device is not so
clear. The user interface is not very intuitive, to say the least, the
manual (as usual with Garmin) is lousy. And the new etrex is completely
different from the classical etrex (in my case Legend HCx), in particular
they left out the beautiful, but little-known capability of the old etrex
to navigate downloaded tracks with the fantastic TrackBack feature, with
the big red arrow and the acoustic signals when approaching a turn in the
track. That's all gone.

I have written up quite a lot about using both devices, but it's all in
Italian, I'm afraid.

Volker
(Padova, Italy)

On 21 April 2012 13:00,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Transcription and "internationalization" in place names
>  (Claudius)
>   2. Re: handheld gps unit (Claudius)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:51:01 +0200
> From: Claudius 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Transcription and "internationalization" in
>place   names
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Am 16.04.2012 22:17, Milo? Komar?evi?:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Daniel Kastl
>  wrote:
> >> name:ja_rm is probably what will not be rendered usually, but this
> would be
> >> the name written for example on street signs as name in latin
> characters.
> >> name:ja_kana is what was mentioned in a previous email, because it helps
> >> Japanese people to know the reading of a name. It's also useful for
> >> geocoding.
> >>
> >
> > I would also like to take this opportunity to draw your attention to
> > the lack of unification on how 'romanized' language tags are used and
> > constructed for languages not usually written in Latin script.
> >
> > 'ja_rm' and 'zh_pinyin' are some examples
> >
> > We strongly believe OSM should get behind and use BCP 47 as
> > recommended by W3C, Unicode, ECMA, etc.:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IETF_language_tag
> >
> > and are already committed to retagging all our data in Serbia to 'sr'
> > and 'sr-Latn'.
>
> +1
>
> Would be great to get the tagging guidelines accordingly.
>
> Claudius
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:19:49 +0200
> From: Claudius 
> To: talk@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] handheld gps unit
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Do you know how this compares to the newer touch screen Garmin devices
> (Dakota, Oregan, Montana)? I know that upon release the GPS performance
> (read "Accuracy") of the touch devices was below the Vista HCx.
> Wondering if they could fix that via firmware upgrades or even
> improvements to the hardware.
>
> I really liked my Vista HCx, because of the very fast time to fix, the
> high accuracy and the fact that it actually had a scrollable map
> (something the Geko is lacking). But then the usability with that small
> joystick was just... bad when using the map.
>
> Claudius
>
> Am 19.04.2012 14:40, Thomas Davie:
> > I'm very pleased with my Garmin eTrex Vista HCx.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > if (*ra4 != 0xffc78948) { return false; }
> >
> >
> > On 19 Apr 2012, at 13:20, kenneth gonsalves wrote:
> >
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> what are recommendations for a handheld reasonably priced gps unit?
> >> --
> >> regards
> >> Kenneth Gonsalves
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
> End of talk Digest, Vol 92, Issue 52
> 
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[OSM-talk] Transcription and 'internationalization' in place names

[Volker Schmidt]

I picked up a message from another mailing list
(http://groups.google.com/group/bikemapde/topics), which maybe someone
following this thread can follow up:

The site Bikemap.de recently switched to OSM. In their mailing list I
picked up this complaint from a user in Taiwan:

"I am very disappointed with the new maps currently being used by
Bikemap. I live in Taiwan and these new maps not only omit important
data, such as road names and numbers, but the place names are in the
Hanyu Pinyin form of romanization and do not match the common signage
used in Taiwan. This adds one extra layer of complexity and difficulty
for most users. I hope Bikemaps can consider these problems and revert
to using a mapping software that can be more accurate and reflect the
local names as they are actually spelled."


Volker

-- 

Volker SCHMIDT
35127 Padova
Italy

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