Am 10.02.2011 19:50, schrieb Michael von Glasow:
What I
am certain of is that OSM can represent public transport routes,
possibly with some concessions on precision (such as not handling some
route variants).
Yes and no. That is, to some extent: in cities perhaps all the main
lines, but not
On 02/10/2011 11:01 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
If I visit a bus stop by foot I can manage to map the pole/platform.
So this could be level 1. But when I visit within the bus, I can only
manage to map the stop position. So this would be level 1. What should
be level 1 then?
All you
On 02/08/2011 09:17 PM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
Here we're getting into one of the uglier parts of transport mapping -
large terminals (amenity=bus_station) with multiple stop positions and
platforms. I deliberately left that out of the proposal I presented (my
plan is to present that as a
On 02/07/2011 11:11 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/611446
Single-direction, the first stop (Bonola) is a platform member (no stop
member exists for this one); all others are
Here we're getting into one of the uglier parts of transport mapping -
large terminals (amenity=bus_station) with multiple stop positions and
platforms. I deliberately left that out of the proposal I presented (my
plan is to present that as a later extension).
Do you have an idea how it will
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 5:39 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
I did not play around with actual renderers, but in theory the renderer
should be able to get the diagram out of the order of the stops, regardless
of the role. If one stop is twice in the route relation it should be
On 02/07/2011 10:45 AM, Richard Mann wrote:
Can anyone point me to a route relation with platform stop members,
so I can check how the line-diagram service works in that situation?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/611446
Single-direction, the first stop (Bonola) is a platform
On 02/05/2011 06:09 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
if I may just comment on the relation: I would also use stop
rather than forward_stop and backward_stop for the roles since the
outward and return directions of a spoon
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
I did a lot of experimenting to get a simple, one-relation-per-direction
line to render correctly. If I remember that correctly, the stop role is
required (forward_stop, backward_stop or platform will also work).
On 02/07/2011 12:23 AM, Michael von Glasow wrote:
On 02/05/2011 06:09 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
if I may just comment on the relation: I would also use stop
rather than forward_stop and backward_stop for the roles
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
if I may just comment on the relation: I would also use stop
rather than forward_stop and backward_stop for the roles since the
outward and return directions of a spoon route are somewhat hard to tell
apart.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
On 02/03/2011 12:04 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
... something else (railway=tram_station) should go on
the centroid as a courtesy tag.
I would in fact tend towards using public_transport=stop_position,
as suggested
On 02/04/2011 12:09 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
I've been attempting to order a relation using P2 (I don't recommend
trying it yourself yet - the process needs streamlining). I managed to
sort the nodes in a two-directions-with-loops relation:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/85299
and
On 02/03/2011 12:04 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 5:40 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy)te...@teddy.ch wrote:
I do not think it is a good idea to redefine thousands of used
railway=tram_stop.
The problem is that railway=tram_stop is used to mean a number of
different things, which
On 01/27/2011 07:20 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
On 01/26/2011 08:40 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
The bus service number 10 in Wintherthur is the most simple case you can
have. Absolutely no exceptions. See timetables of the two terminal
stations:
So there is yet another line 10 mixed at the
On 01/27/2011 06:56 PM, ant wrote:
Hi,
On 27.01.2011 10:49, Richard Mann wrote:
Thanks, Richard.
I think we've got three broad decisions:
1) Whether the use of stop area / group relations should be
a) widespread
b) exceptional
b
b, ideally with a definition to what cases those
On 02.02.2011 13:04, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Let's just get down to differences, I say your proposal is too
difficult. I've already spoken well about its data integrity, but new
users don't care about it. We need something that is as good as yours in
data integrity, and as easy to grasp as my
On 02/03/2011 12:40 AM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
Hence, in most cases the extra node on the way is what I call courtesy
tagging - it makes things easier for the renderer (less preprocessing) but
can be automated. I
Hi,
On 27.01.2011 10:49, Richard Mann wrote:
I think we've got three broad decisions:
1) Whether the use of stop area / group relations should be
a) widespread
b) exceptional
b
2) Whether route relations should
a) contain all the variants in one relation, with no attempt at
ordering, just
Am 27.01.2011 18:56, schrieb ant:
Hi,
On 27.01.2011 10:49, Richard Mann wrote:
I think we've got three broad decisions:
1) Whether the use of stop area / group relations should be
a) widespread
b) exceptional
b
a) possibility to micromap.
2) Whether route relations should
a)
Am 25.01.2011 13:52, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/25/2011 12:01 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
So far, so good. Let's then take a tram line, I selected a *random* stop
in the centre of Zürich, and *randomly* took tram line 10. Here's the
list of routes and their conditions:
...
This
On 26.01.2011 09:28, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Here's an excerpt from the ZVV timetable for Bus 210, uptown Zürich
In Zürich / ZVV there does NOT exist a bus 210.
And the data come from this:
http://www.zvv.ch/en/timetables/online-timetable.html
This is a form. It is no data output. What did
On 01/26/2011 08:40 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Line 10 Winterthur:
line# relation# # of runs
10 407 6
10 408 1
10 409 1
10 410 6
10 411 3
10 412 3
10 413 6
10 414 3
10 415 3
10 416 1
10 417 6
10 418 3
10 419 1
10 420 3
10 702 2
10 703 2
Voila, one line, 16 relations (unless
On 01/25/2011 12:01 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
So far, so good. Let's then take a tram line, I selected a *random* stop
in the centre of Zürich, and *randomly* took tram line 10. Here's the
list of routes and their conditions:
...
This single line contains *23* different routes! Twenty-three
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Richard Mann
richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch
wrote:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
According to taginfo there are already 64'500 stop area relations in the OSM
-Original Message-
From: Richard Mann [mailto:richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com]
Sent: 23 January 2011 22:38
To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Summary of Public Transport Proposal Criticism
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy
On 01/22/2011 11:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
IMHO not related to the proposal:
- potlatch can not handle the proposal/nested relations correctly:
The latest version of Potlatch (Potlatch 2) handles nested relations
excellently. About 10 seconds' research
Am 24.01.2011 10:00, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/22/2011 11:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
IMHO not related to the proposal:
- potlatch can not handle the proposal/nested relations correctly:
The latest version of Potlatch (Potlatch 2) handles nested
On 01/22/2011 08:38 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/22/2011 09:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
[...]And it does not seam to be too complicated,
And as for not needed: can we have a *separate discussion* on how
routing works? There had already
On 01/24/2011 10:10 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
As far as I understand the issue, stop areas are used to tie different
stops into one transferring area.
No, you did not understand correct. stop_area_group is (was?) for that.
Teddych
___
Talk-transit
Am 24.01.2011 10:39, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/24/2011 10:10 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
As far as I understand the issue, stop areas are used to tie different
stops into one transferring area.
No, you did not understand correct. stop_area_group is (was?) for that.
Then what is the
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.comwrote:
Am 24.01.2011 09:39, schrieb Roger Slevin:
I have not been able to follow the large number of posts on this group in
recent weeks - but I can confirm that stopareas are an important part of
NaPTAN data in the UK,
On 01/24/2011 11:00 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
Am 24.01.2011 10:39, schrieb Dominik Mahrer (Teddy):
On 01/24/2011 10:10 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
As far as I understand the issue, stop areas are used to tie different
stops into one transferring area.
No, you did not understand correct.
of public transport network, then the data will not be
sufficient at stoppoint level only.
Roger
From: Frankie Roberto [mailto:fran...@frankieroberto.com]
Sent: 24 January 2011 10:06
To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics
Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] Summary of Public Transport
On 23.01.2011 13:18, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/23/2011 12:57 PM, Vincent Privat wrote:
2011/1/23 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
mailto:michal.bor...@gmail.com
Could you please explain what you mean, because I'm not sure. The
links provided show bus routes with nothing
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Christian christ...@balticfinance.com wrote:
but it also includes people ... who would like to map also
physical path a bus takes on the street.
I think there's a logic in encouraging the use of ordered relations to
show the paths of bus/etc routes - because
On 01/24/2011 12:40 PM, Christian wrote:
On 23.01.2011 13:18, Michał Borsuk wrote:
No, this can't be done in such detail, but it's not necessary as of
2011. All you need to know is where is the bus stop for the direction
you're interested in, or whether the bus stop you found serves you
On 01/24/2011 02:09 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Christianchrist...@balticfinance.com wrote:
but it also includes people ... who would like to map also
physical path a bus takes on the street.
I think there's a logic in encouraging the use of ordered relations to
On 01/24/2011 12:40 PM, Christian wrote:
On 23.01.2011 13:18, Michał Borsuk wrote:
No, this can't be done in such detail, but it's not
necessary as of
2011. All you need to know is where is the bus stop for
the direction
you're interested in, or whether the bus stop you found serves
On 01/24/2011 10:16 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
On 01/22/2011 08:38 PM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/22/2011 09:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
The more exact the OSM map is, the
more likely it is that the two directions do not share the same way for
the both directions (the lines
On 01/25/2011 12:19 AM, Michał Borsuk wrote:
On 01/24/2011 11:38 PM, Christian Krützfeldt wrote:
If disagree then please attack my arguments with
counter-arguments. I stand by what I wrote.
Well, I could agree with you that your proposal is fine for most usage
cases. But below you say it
On 01/24/2011 11:22 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
By the way, I have removed stop_area_group from the proposal.
In essence this is good. I tried to implement this concept in OSM, but
could not find (come up with) a sensible standard.
Then what is the exact difference between
On 01/24/2011 11:06 AM, Frankie Roberto wrote:
[...] I don't think you'd consider Embankment and
Charing Cross stations to be part of the same stop area, even though
they're very close to each other? On the other hand, some stop areas
(Waterloo perhaps) may be huge, even though it may take you
On Tuesday, January 25, 2011 at 00:23 CET,
Michal Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/25/2011 12:19 AM, Michal Borsuk wrote:
Graphically lost, so no arrows (that didn't work anyway, because
there are streets in which bus A runs one-way north, bus B runs
one-way south, and
On 01/22/2011 10:00 PM, Vincent Privat wrote:
2011/1/22 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
mailto:michal.bor...@gmail.com
In urban regions it is common that a bus line has different
routes for
the both directions (often one way).
This doesn't matter as OSM
2011/1/23 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
Could you please explain what you mean, because I'm not sure. The links
provided show bus routes with nothing difficult in particular. They could be
mapped as one relation each, only if bus stops are tagged correctly.
I just want to be sure we
On 01/22/2011 11:04 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
IMHO not related to the proposal:
- potlatch can not handle the proposal/nested relations correctly:
The latest version of Potlatch (Potlatch 2) handles nested relations
excellently. About 10 seconds' research
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
According to taginfo there are already 64'500 stop area relations in the OSM
database (10'500 public transport/oxomoa, 1'500 stop place, 51'500 unified
stoparea).
I think
Thanks Michal for your explanations, this is greatly appreciated :)
___
Talk-transit mailing list
Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
I try to seperate the criticism from the spam around my proposal:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
According to taginfo there are already 64'500 stop area relations in the
OSM database (10'500 public transport/oxomoa, 1'500 stop place, 51'500
unified stoparea).
For me this is a
On 01/22/2011 09:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
I try to seperate the criticism from the spam around my proposal:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
[...]And it does not seam to be too complicated,
We have so many advanced issues in comparison to the total number of PT
objects
2011/1/22 Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com
In urban regions it is common that a bus line has different routes for
the both directions (often one way).
This doesn't matter as OSM itself is not routing software.
The more exact the OSM map is, the
more likely it is that the two
Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) wrote:
IMHO not related to the proposal:
- potlatch can not handle the proposal/nested relations correctly:
The latest version of Potlatch (Potlatch 2) handles nested relations
excellently. About 10 seconds' research would have told you that.
Richard
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