RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Amanda Rush
K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack
thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither
one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to
get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this
is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one
and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every
single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of
their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the
FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the
fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can
pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go
along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do
anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one
takes this as rooting for them.

And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what
had happened to you. Good to see you're still around.

Amanda



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj
Paddy
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35
To: talk2
Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of
Brandon Hicks
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom
Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even
that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I
got to about the third line of the message.

Brandon

Stephen Clower wrote:
 So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get
 them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the
 author's attitude, despite his good intentions.

 Steve

 On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote:
 I haven't seen a message on this list for months.  Why not let the
 content of this message speak for itself?

 From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav ta...@talknav.com
 on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM

 A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have
 not signed
 the WFA user protest site.

 Before I start my message the link right here and now is
 www.talknav.com/protest

 Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have
 to at
 this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We
are
 nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need
thousands.

 To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the
 application signing, let alone additional support.

 Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the
 organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you
 lot, those
 of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have
 made me
 rather upset and irritated.

 To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites
 informing you
 all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more
 detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our
 favour,
 have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of
 competence
 when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This
 individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your
 local
 blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I,
 am very,
 very disappointed in you all.

 As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if
 you do not
 own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the
 list
 says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind
 folks, it
 says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to
 freedom
 and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are
 prepared
 to use it when necessary.

 This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a
 symbol, now
 please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it
 sharing,
 Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts,
 mailing lists
 etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights
to
 accessible products then make your mark.

 More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in
 support of
 our cause, so get your address book and forward this link,
 personalize it
 with a few lines of message, get the word out there.

 The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public
 signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list.
 To date
 we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Doug Langley
I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these 
internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only 
help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time 
working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we 
would probably all be better off.  This is vodaphone. they hear from 
more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition.  And 
all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 
months getting 778 signatures so they can say, because it didnt make 
business sense. Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can 
service you in the future.


On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:

K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack
thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither
one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to
get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this
is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one
and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every
single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of
their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the
FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the
fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can
pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go
along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do
anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one
takes this as rooting for them.

And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what
had happened to you. Good to see you're still around.

Amanda



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj
Paddy
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35
To: talk2
Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of
Brandon Hicks
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom
Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even
that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I
got to about the third line of the message.

Brandon

Stephen Clower wrote:
   

So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get
them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the
author's attitude, despite his good intentions.

Steve

On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote:
 

I haven't seen a message on this list for months.  Why not let the
content of this message speak for itself?

From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNavta...@talknav.com
on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM

   

A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have
not signed
the WFA user protest site.

Before I start my message the link right here and now is
www.talknav.com/protest

Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have
to at
this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We
 

are
   

nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need
 

thousands.
   

To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the
application signing, let alone additional support.

Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the
organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you
lot, those
of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have
made me
rather upset and irritated.

To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites
informing you
all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more
detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our
favour,
have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of
competence
when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This
individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your
local
blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I,
am very,
very disappointed in you all.

As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if
you do not
own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the
list
says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind
folks, it
says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to
freedom
and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are
prepared
to use it when necessary.

This protest is about more than just Wayfinder 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Doug Langley
Has anyone approached loadstone about adding the googlemaps/earth api's? 
street view and directions are availible in many countrys. you add the 
loadstone user POIS to the google maps api and poi's and you actually 
have something going.  google maps is the best source for free maps. if 
people dont want to pay mobile geo prices then implement google maps in 
to something like loadstone or build a completely open source cross 
platform app in either python or java and talk to the appropriate screen 
reader API's.



On 3/2/2010 8:27 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote:
Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone 
serve. So there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 blinks 
who were going to break contracts with them over it they might think 
again but as it is that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have nothing 
to gain and everything to lose by doing something about this, but the 
blinks feel entitled. Instead of putting the tallent to work for 
Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical.


Brandon

Doug Langley wrote:
Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in 
its coffin.  Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program 
which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps 
program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the 
insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at 
least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money 
and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by 
the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to 
be insentive enough to do anything about it.



On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote:
I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these 
internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can 
only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much 
time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old 
dieing one we would probably all be better off.  This is vodaphone. 
they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this 
hole petition.  And all this petition is doing is asking for a 
reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they 
can say, because it didnt make business sense. Thank you for 
contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future.


On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:

K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the 
lack
thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. 
Neither
one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're 
trying to

get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but 
this
is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this 
one
and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even 
if every

single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of
their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case 
of the
FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, 
but the
fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they 
can

pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go
along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for 
FS to do
anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope 
no one

takes this as rooting for them.

And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering 
what

had happened to you. Good to see you're still around.

Amanda



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On 
Behalf Of Dj

Paddy
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35
To: talk2
Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On 
Behalf Of

Brandon Hicks
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom
Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if 
even
that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it 
until I

got to about the third line of the message.

Brandon

Stephen Clower wrote:

So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get
them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the
author's attitude, despite his good intentions.

Steve

On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote:

I haven't seen a message on this list for months.  Why not let the
content of this message speak for itself?

From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNavta...@talknav.com
on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM


A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have
not signed
the WFA user protest 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Brandon Hicks
That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to 
them about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good 
if it just streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got 
access to the better maps from Google.


Doug Langley wrote:
Has anyone approached loadstone about adding the googlemaps/earth 
api's? street view and directions are availible in many countrys. you 
add the loadstone user POIS to the google maps api and poi's and you 
actually have something going.  google maps is the best source for 
free maps. if people dont want to pay mobile geo prices then implement 
google maps in to something like loadstone or build a completely open 
source cross platform app in either python or java and talk to the 
appropriate screen reader API's.



On 3/2/2010 8:27 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote:
Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone 
serve. So there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 
blinks who were going to break contracts with them over it they might 
think again but as it is that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have 
nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing something about this, 
but the blinks feel entitled. Instead of putting the tallent to work 
for Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical.


Brandon

Doug Langley wrote:
Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in 
its coffin.  Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program 
which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps 
program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the 
insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at 
least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money 
and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by 
the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going 
to be insentive enough to do anything about it.



On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote:
I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these 
internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can 
only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much 
time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old 
dieing one we would probably all be better off.  This is vodaphone. 
they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this 
hole petition.  And all this petition is doing is asking for a 
reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they 
can say, because it didnt make business sense. Thank you for 
contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future.


On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:

K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or 
the lack
thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. 
Neither
one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're 
trying to
get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, 
(and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, 
but this
is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like 
this one
and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even 
if every

single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of
their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the 
case of the
FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, 
but the
fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So 
they can
pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will 
eventually go
along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for 
FS to do
anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope 
no one

takes this as rooting for them.

And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was 
wondering what

had happened to you. Good to see you're still around.

Amanda



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On 
Behalf Of Dj

Paddy
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35
To: talk2
Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On 
Behalf Of

Brandon Hicks
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom
Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if 
even
that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it 
until I

got to about the third line of the message.

Brandon

Stephen Clower wrote:

So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get
them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the
author's attitude, despite his good intentions.

Steve

On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote:

I haven't seen a 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Onj
I hear ya there Steve.  I didn't admittedly buy my screenreader, but nore 
did I crack it.  Being on the beta team has it's advantages and if I had 
the money and a lot left over, I'd gladly buy it because I like it.
I've successfully stired up a can of worms with this post though, just as I 
intended.  Neil got the wrong attitude, but he's trying.  Even if he 
achieves nothing at all, he's at least doing something.
Those blind tards that want something for nothing well, they have no right 
to complain.
Doug said on the petition, some people are demanding their money back. 
Like that's gonna happen.
And as I said to him, in 2001 I payed £130 for a 45 gig hard drive.  That 
drive is now very dead, and in a bin somewhere.  Should  I run to PC world 
demanding my money back because it's still not working?  Like hell I 
should!  Yet, blind people think they're entitled.  Entitled to shit! 
Should be greatful they got anything at all.


From: Stephen Clower st...@steve-audio.net
on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 5:11 PM


Here here. I've saved up and purchased all of my assistive tech over the
years. No group of people is entitled to things for free just because of
what may be wrong with them. Remember that virus that disabled all of
the pirated copies of JAWS a couple years ago for Christmas? I'd really
like to shake the hand of whoever put that crack together. I still
chuckle about it when the incident comes to mind.

Steve


On 3/2/2010 10:21 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:

Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms.
I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it
happens, oh well.

I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're
entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, 
but
entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a 
perfectly
accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay 
extra
or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live 
in

the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which
has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, 
unless

they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the
reasonable accommodation clause. So we really are, in most cases, 
better

off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each
other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I
were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm 
dealing

with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal
emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because
there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same 
goes
for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they 
don't

officially support.



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of
Doug Langley
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its
coffin.  Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which
wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program
and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive
for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability
to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people
that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to
ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do
anything about it.


On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote:


I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these
internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only
help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time
working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one
we would probably all be better off.  This is vodaphone. they hear
from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole
petition.  And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why.
so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say,
because it didnt make business sense. Thank you for contacting
vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future.

On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:


K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the


lack


thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity.


Neither

one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying 
to

get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but


this

is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this 
one

and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if
every
single blind user 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread Doug Langley
this is something I've been pondering for the last 2 weeks after a 
conversation with onj
the Asterisk pbx uses a bounty system to get stuff done. So, basically 
you take donations for 3-9 months, then offer the money to developers to 
complete
the project. and the project that I invision is an open source product 
based on google maps that's multi plat form. pc, and winmo/symbian.  WX 
widgits

are availible for all our major platforms.

In theory this isnt hard to setup but I can smell the headaches from a 
thousand miles away.  People want donations back, people dont like the 
finished
product etc.  I'm not sure I want the project but It does leave me 
tempted to do it.


On 3/2/2010 8:40 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote:
block quote
That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to 
them about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good 
if it just
streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got access to the 
better maps from Google.





Did you miss a message?  Well, don't.
http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/
has it for you.  Never miss a Talk2 message again.


Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread shaun everiss
yeah it did other things to.
At 06:11 a.m. 3/03/2010, you wrote:
Here here. I've saved up and purchased all of my assistive tech over the 
years. No group of people is entitled to things for free just because of what 
may be wrong with them. Remember that virus that disabled all of the pirated 
copies of JAWS a couple years ago for Christmas? I'd really like to shake the 
hand of whoever put that crack together. I still chuckle about it when the 
incident comes to mind.

Steve


On 3/2/2010 10:21 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:
Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms.
I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it
happens, oh well.

I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're
entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, but
entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a perfectly
accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay extra
or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live in
the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which
has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, unless
they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the
reasonable accommodation clause. So we really are, in most cases, better
off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each
other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I
were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm dealing
with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal
emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because
there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same goes
for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they don't
officially support.



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of
Doug Langley
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12
To: talk2
Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its
coffin.  Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which
wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program
and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive
for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability
to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people
that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to
ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do
anything about it.


On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote:
   
I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these
internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only
help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time
working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one
we would probably all be better off.  This is vodaphone. they hear
from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole
petition.  And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why.
so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say,
because it didnt make business sense. Thank you for contacting
vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future.

On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote:
 
K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this
guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the
   
lack
   
thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity.
   
Neither
   
one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to
get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and
it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but
   
this
   
is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one
and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if
every
single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of
their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case
of the
FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but
the
fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can
pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go
along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS
to do
anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no
   
one
   
takes this as rooting for them.

And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering
   
what
   
had happened to you. Good to see you're still around.

Amanda



-Original Message-
From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf
Of Dj
Paddy
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35
To: talk2
Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

Guys just displaying understandable anger 

Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest

2010-03-02 Thread shaun everiss
hmmm do it anyway.
Ok I can't prommise any donations but I am part admin of a podcast site, I can 
submit material for inclusion, I can probably promote  the project heck could 
even get my own section basedon that project if I wished at least I think I can.
At 06:32 a.m. 3/03/2010, you wrote:
this is something I've been pondering for the last 2 weeks after a 
conversation with onj
the Asterisk pbx uses a bounty system to get stuff done. So, basically you 
take donations for 3-9 months, then offer the money to developers to complete
the project. and the project that I invision is an open source product based 
on google maps that's multi plat form. pc, and winmo/symbian.  WX widgits
are availible for all our major platforms.

In theory this isnt hard to setup but I can smell the headaches from a 
thousand miles away.  People want donations back, people dont like the finished
product etc.  I'm not sure I want the project but It does leave me tempted to 
do it.

On 3/2/2010 8:40 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote:
block quote
That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to them 
about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good if it just
streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got access to the better 
maps from Google.




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Did you miss a message?  Well, don't.
http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/
has it for you.  Never miss a Talk2 message again.