Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Tyler Radford]

Looks nice Elio

*Tyler Radford*
Executive Director
tyler.radf...@hotosm.org
@TylerSRadford

*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*
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On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Michał Brzozowski 
wrote:

> Most of what I agree with has already been said.
> If any media, such as lo-fi print or t-shirts calls for a simplified
> design, there's no problem going with it. This has been done. The good
> thing about the general concept of our logo (lens+map) is that it will
> be recognizable in either case. These can coexist. I don't feel
> there's a need to change our main logo.
> Which is not to say the proposed one is bad. But still, I fail to see
> how negative space (the lens) would work any better for very small
> sizes.
>
> Michał
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[nebulon42]

Like it. As the current trends in graphic design go it fits right in.
Less clutter, flat, clear. Colours are nice, but would probably need
more discussion. A specific font for the word OpenStreetMap also makes
sense in terms of CI considerations.

I cannot comment on whether OSM needs a new logo or not. But it does not
hurt to refresh it.

Michael

Am 2016-10-14 um 16:36 schrieb Elio Qoshi:
> Hi there,
> 
> Elio here, Designer and Open Source contributor from Albania.
> 
> Based on the new Donation Initiative Logo, I thought it would be a good
> time to discuss around adapting a new logo which is more suitable for
> print, smaller displays and generally a broader variety of backgrounds.
> 
> Having this in mind, I came up with a proposal of a logo, including the
> wordmark, which was never included as part of it. The wordmark is
> written in "Overpass" an Open Source font sponsored by Red Hat. Overpass
> is based on the street sign font, so I think it's a perfect fit:
> 
> http://cloud.elioqoshi.me/index.php/s/QjdOYc7WyoSBFqv/download
> 
> What do you think of it? I believe it's time to suggest a new more
> modern logo for OSM nowadays to make it more usable for communities to
> adapt it.
> 
> I look forward to your feedback!
> 
> P.S: Also posted an issue on GitHub:
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1326
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> Elio Qoshi
> 
> FLOSS Designer at Ura Design
> Mozilla Tech Speaker
> Fedora Ambassador
> T:  @elioqoshi
> W:  elioqoshi.me / ura.design
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Michał Brzozowski]

Most of what I agree with has already been said.
If any media, such as lo-fi print or t-shirts calls for a simplified
design, there's no problem going with it. This has been done. The good
thing about the general concept of our logo (lens+map) is that it will
be recognizable in either case. These can coexist. I don't feel
there's a need to change our main logo.
Which is not to say the proposed one is bad. But still, I fail to see
how negative space (the lens) would work any better for very small
sizes.

Michał

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Aun Johnsen]

IMO The current logo works in large scale and 16x16 as well. I don’t know of 
use cases where smaller is needed. Also the colours in the current logo is 
pleasant to me, and represents a map. The 0’s and 1’s is a clear reference to 
the digital database. I think if we need to simplify the current logo, than we 
should use the current logo colour pallet so that the existing logo can be 
continued to be used as a detailed logo where that is desired.

Aun Johnsen

> On Oct 15, 2016, at 10:34, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
>  Im not a designer, but standard wisdom on logos is something that works at 
> multiple scale with few substantial differences is better. Less visual noise 
> is good.


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 15 ott 2016, alle ore 11:11, Frederik Ramm  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> we could have a super crafty
> logo with gradients and shadows and a shiny 3D effect and so on.


we have this already :)
that's exactly our current logo 

Cheers,
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 15 October 2016, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> On 10/15/2016 08:03 AM, Yves wrote:
> > I personally find the 'negative magnifier' elegant, and the
> > disappearance of the 0s and 1s a good way to simplify this logo and
> > make it easier to scale.
>
> I wonder what the established wisdom in the design community is about
> this. I mean, many people view the web site on a high-dpi screen with
> about a bazillion calibrated colours and we could have a super crafty
> logo with gradients and shadows and a shiny 3D effect and so on.

Design is is general highly subject to fashion and trends.  Improvements 
in digital technology initially lead to a trend towards more 
sophisticated logo designs with more details, less graphical 
abstraction and physical realism (like 3d effects and shadows as you 
mentioned).

This changed at some point, initially mostly in light of a trend away 
from pixel graphics based and 3d rendered designs towards 2d vector 
graphics which mandated more abstraction and reduction of realism to a 
more cartoon like style.

The raise of mobile display devices triggered another change in fashion.  
This was less due to the high resolution displays and more due to the 
bad readability of these displays under varying lighting conditions.  
This required logos to be very simple in geometry and without 
subtilities in colors to still be recognizable.  This is by the way 
exactly the direction taken by what is proposed by Elio.

Corporate design, especially for tech companies, follows these trends 
quite closely, reflecting the short term marketing goals and the high 
need to not appear old-fashioned.

OpenStreetMap as a project with much more long term goals on the other 
hand does not need to follow the latest fashion trends and can aim for 
a more timeless design.  What this should be is still an open question 
of course but this should be considered based on what well represents 
the project and not what is considered modern at the moment.  Since OSM 
is very much about attention to detail it is IMO not a bad idea to 
reflect this in logo design.

This directly relates to another aspect that might deserve 
consideration.  The logo and the standard map style form a pair as the 
two graphical impressions most will associate with OpenStreetMap.  This 
IMO calls for some level of consistency between those.  The map style 
features a lot of detail, subtle color differences and very little 
abstraction - partly due to technological constraints, partly due to 
the purpose it serves.  A logo that strongly contrasts with this is 
kind of inconsistent.

Another issue: the current logo design is well suited for adaptation 
like for local communities - see:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logos

which represent the diversity of the project and which people can 
intuitively identify with.  I am not so sure if this is similarly 
possible with a much simpler and highly abstract logo.

The proposed text design is kind of strange by the way since it 
emphasizes 'StreetMap' relative to 'Open' - even though 'Open' is, as 
most know, the only part of the name that truly fits (Simon also 
mentioned this on github by the way).

-- 
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http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Colin Smale]

Normal practise is for the "marketing department" to have the logo
available in a selection of forms, for different purposes. Think of
different formats (square, 16:9, full-width banner etc), different
resolutions, different colour depths, perhaps a monochrome version etc.
In order to protect the "brand image" companies will have a selection
available which have all been individually "crafted" to look good for
the use case for which they are intended, and all "approved". The last
thing you want is random third parties all hacking it about in their own
way - then you would lose control of your own image. It's a bit of work,
but it only has to be sorted out once (per rebranding). The spot colours
also need specification of course, at least as RGB, CMYK and possibly
PMS. Don't forget that not all colours can be represented in RGB.

On 2016-10-15 11:11, Frederik Ramm wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 10/15/2016 08:03 AM, Yves wrote: 
> 
>> I personally find the 'negative magnifier' elegant, and the
>> disappearance of the 0s and 1s a good way to simplify this logo and make
>> it easier to scale.
> 
> I wonder what the established wisdom in the design community is about
> this. I mean, many people view the web site on a high-dpi screen with
> about a bazillion calibrated colours and we could have a super crafty
> logo with gradients and shadows and a shiny 3D effect and so on.
> 
> Then there are use cases where you want to logo on a T-shirt or in
> 16x16px in the corner of a map.
> 
> Does that automatically mean that you need to have the
> lowest-common-denominator logo that uses only 4 colours and is easily
> scalable - or are there ways to have a polished logo for large displays
> together with a scalable version and both still retain the same visual
> identity?
> 
> Of course even a simple logo can look good in large print but I do like
> it about the current logo that there are details to discover when you
> look closer.
> 
> Bye
> Frederik___
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[michael spreng]

Hi

I find the proposed logo quite appealing. Well done. Nevertheless, I
argue against the magnifying glass

On 14/10/16 21:56, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> The magnifying glass is hard to explain when there's nothing
> under it but I think we have reached an age where it is ok to simply
> hold on to something because of tradition ;)

This is a very good point, but the confusion with search outweighs this.
The average person stumbling across a small OSM logo on different sites
will mistake it as search and not even recognize that it is a logo. I
would like to see a small logo which can be put in a corner of the map
to say "hey, this is OSM data" without user experience headaches.

Michael



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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 10/14/2016 09:34 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
> > I suspect that was exactly the kind of thing Elio was trying to avoid
> .
> >
> > That said, I'm not convinced that yet another iteration of the
> > magnifying glass logo makes a lot of sense. Logos with the basic theme
> > are a dime a dozen and ours employs memes that are not obvious at all
> > today on top of that.
>
> I'm not sure if we need a new logo at all, but *if* we do, I think I
> prefer what has been done here - evolving the existing one - over
> throwing it out in favour of something completely different, memes or no
> memes. The magnifying glass is hard to explain when there's nothing
> under it but I think we have reached an age where it is ok to simply
> hold on to something because of tradition ;)
>

 That, and with the rapid evolution of both data consumers and editors
since I joined seven and a half years ago, rather suggests the more
"effortless" usage we have now.  The binary digits have been fading in my
time with the project as it is.  Also makes it more easily customization to
a local group (useful for me since I'm bad with filters to put, say,
Oklahoma's or Tulsa's coat of arms in the logo).
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Mikel Maron]

 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important;  padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; }  Im not a designer, but standard wisdom on logos is something 
that works at multiple scale with few substantial differences is better. Less 
visual noise is good.


Mikel

On Saturday, October 15, 2016, 5:13 AM, Frederik Ramm  
wrote:

Hi,

On 10/15/2016 08:03 AM, Yves wrote:
> I personally find the 'negative magnifier' elegant, and the
> disappearance of the 0s and 1s a good way to simplify this logo and make
> it easier to scale.

I wonder what the established wisdom in the design community is about
this. I mean, many people view the web site on a high-dpi screen with
about a bazillion calibrated colours and we could have a super crafty
logo with gradients and shadows and a shiny 3D effect and so on.

Then there are use cases where you want to logo on a T-shirt or in
16x16px in the corner of a map.

Does that automatically mean that you need to have the
lowest-common-denominator logo that uses only 4 colours and is easily
scalable - or are there ways to have a polished logo for large displays
together with a scalable version and both still retain the same visual
identity?

Of course even a simple logo can look good in large print but I do like
it about the current logo that there are details to discover when you
look closer.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 10/15/2016 08:03 AM, Yves wrote:
> I personally find the 'negative magnifier' elegant, and the
> disappearance of the 0s and 1s a good way to simplify this logo and make
> it easier to scale.

I wonder what the established wisdom in the design community is about
this. I mean, many people view the web site on a high-dpi screen with
about a bazillion calibrated colours and we could have a super crafty
logo with gradients and shadows and a shiny 3D effect and so on.

Then there are use cases where you want to logo on a T-shirt or in
16x16px in the corner of a map.

Does that automatically mean that you need to have the
lowest-common-denominator logo that uses only 4 colours and is easily
scalable - or are there ways to have a polished logo for large displays
together with a scalable version and both still retain the same visual
identity?

Of course even a simple logo can look good in large print but I do like
it about the current logo that there are details to discover when you
look closer.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Yves]

Sure there is no need or no urge to change a logo,  no timeline neither,  but 
this proposal triggers a discussion,  so let's see where it goes. 
The image of the project is something that people can care of, why not? 
I personally find the 'negative magnifier' elegant,  and the disappearance of 
the 0s and 1s a good way to simplify this logo and make it easier to scale. 
When I see questions about horizontal layers in the Q&A site,  I can't help 
thinking that in some way we tend to be over in explaining the difference 
between data vs map. 
Yves

Le 15 octobre 2016 00:35:48 GMT+02:00, Michael Kugelmann  
a écrit :
>On 14.10.2016 at 16:36 Elio Qoshi wrote:
>>
>> Based on the new Donation Initiative Logo, I thought it would be a 
>> good time to discuss around adapting a new logo which is more
>suitable 
>> for print, smaller displays and generally a broader variety of 
>> backgrounds.
>>
>I guess you don't remember the heavy discussion ongoing while the last 
>change of the OSM logo (and this was just a slight change). And please 
>always remember that the people are used to something => there is a 
>recognition value behind the old logo. Additionally all 
>web-pages/flyers/etc. needs to be changed. There for I consider a
>change 
>of the loggo w/o any needs as not at all the highest priority...
>
>
>Jst my 2 cents,
>Michael.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Aun Johnsen]

I think it is too early to redesign the logo itself, but I like the idea of the 
wordmark. Incorporating the wordmark with the existing logo is much more 
preferred.

Aun Johnsen

> On Oct 14, 2016, at 19:35, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
> What do you think of it?


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Michael Kugelmann]

On 14.10.2016 at 16:36 Elio Qoshi wrote:


Based on the new Donation Initiative Logo, I thought it would be a 
good time to discuss around adapting a new logo which is more suitable 
for print, smaller displays and generally a broader variety of 
backgrounds.


I guess you don't remember the heavy discussion ongoing while the last 
change of the OSM logo (and this was just a slight change). And please 
always remember that the people are used to something => there is a 
recognition value behind the old logo. Additionally all 
web-pages/flyers/etc. needs to be changed. There for I consider a change 
of the loggo w/o any needs as not at all the highest priority...



Jst my 2 cents,
Michael.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Dave F]

On 14/10/2016 15:36, Elio Qoshi wrote:


What do you think of it?




It wasn't that long ago we previously went through this process.

Personally I wish there was more enthusiasm for improving the database 
instead of this fluff.
There appears to be far too much type spent on 'managing the process' 
than adding quality to the product.


Better maps is the best way to promote OSM.

DaveF.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 10/14/2016 09:34 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
> I suspect that was exactly the kind of thing Elio was trying to avoid .
> 
> That said, I'm not convinced that yet another iteration of the
> magnifying glass logo makes a lot of sense. Logos with the basic theme
> are a dime a dozen and ours employs memes that are not obvious at all
> today on top of that.

I'm not sure if we need a new logo at all, but *if* we do, I think I
prefer what has been done here - evolving the existing one - over
throwing it out in favour of something completely different, memes or no
memes. The magnifying glass is hard to explain when there's nothing
under it but I think we have reached an age where it is ok to simply
hold on to something because of tradition ;)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Simon Poole]

I suspect that was exactly the kind of thing Elio was trying to avoid .

That said, I'm not convinced that yet another iteration of the
magnifying glass logo makes a lot of sense. Logos with the basic theme
are a dime a dozen and ours employs memes that are not obvious at all
today on top of that.

Simon


On 14.10.2016 20:41, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> I like it a lot, although it's a pity the zeros and ones are missing, maybe 
> you could give it a try and integrate something?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin 
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> Il giorno 14 ott 2016, alle ore 16:36, Elio Qoshi  ha 
>> scritto:
>>
>> What do you think of it?
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

I like it a lot, although it's a pity the zeros and ones are missing, maybe you 
could give it a try and integrate something?

Cheers,
Martin 

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 14 ott 2016, alle ore 16:36, Elio Qoshi  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> What do you think of it?

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[OSM-talk] OSM New Logo Proposal

[Elio Qoshi]

Hi there,

Elio here, Designer and Open Source contributor from Albania.

Based on the new Donation Initiative Logo, I thought it would be a good
time to discuss around adapting a new logo which is more suitable for
print, smaller displays and generally a broader variety of backgrounds.

Having this in mind, I came up with a proposal of a logo, including the
wordmark, which was never included as part of it. The wordmark is
written in "Overpass" an Open Source font sponsored by Red Hat. Overpass
is based on the street sign font, so I think it's a perfect fit:

http://cloud.elioqoshi.me/index.php/s/QjdOYc7WyoSBFqv/download

What do you think of it? I believe it's time to suggest a new more
modern logo for OSM nowadays to make it more usable for communities to
adapt it.

I look forward to your feedback!

P.S: Also posted an issue on GitHub:
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1326

Cheers,

-- 
Elio Qoshi

FLOSS Designer at Ura Design
Mozilla Tech Speaker
Fedora Ambassador
T:  @elioqoshi
W:  elioqoshi.me / ura.design

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