--On 16/12/2005 15:40 -0800 Randy wrote:
But this on-going never-actually-fix-anything beta cycle is tiring.
I've said it before but I seriously doubt whether there's a robust road map
for TB!'s development. It somehow seems much easier for the developers to
tinker with new and (unwanted?)
Hi Curtis,
Friday, December 16, 2005
you let us know -possibly edited- :
It's been a long time since
IMAP has made any significant progress.
And before they decided to play around with IMAP, they did the same with
HTML. I know that the majority can live without HTML -including me- but
it was
Hi Paul,
You wrote:
M Again fully agree. Except that even if they implement this
nonsense they M will not loose me as a user. With or without this
'nonsense' implemented M there is nothing out there that can replace
TB.
So True..
Well, here I am, using Mulberry while
Hello.
Here's what Curtis [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed on
Friday, December 16, 2005 18:33 -0500 wrote:
Well, here I am, using Mulberry while feeling the same way some time
ago.
I'm back to Mulberry too and I doubt I'll be returning to the Bat!.
Although it has some things I really like (such
Hi MAU,
You wrote:
As a well-informed adult, shouldn't you think about all users and not
just of yourself?
IMO, on a slightly different slant, it's not good form to remove
features that already exist, if this is what you're implying. Add the
drafts folder, but DO NOT remove the
Hi Randy,
You wrote:
Maybe I'll give it a shot again at next release. But this on-going
never-actually-fix-anything beta cycle is tiring.
Well, if you changed that to
on-going-never-actually-fixing-anything-IMAP beta cycles, then I'd
agree. They are clearly fixing many other issues.
On Friday, December 16, 2005, 5:40:45 PM, Randy wrote:
it simply can't beat Mulberry as far as IMAP is concerned.
except when you have to look at the screen and read the mail, or want
to filter something or use quick templates, or do anything else
productive.
--
Dwight A. Corrin
928 S
Hello MAU,
They won't, I give up. They are stubborn, blind and don't have the
time to read our reasons. So, why waste our time and bother?
I posted to Stefan that your purpose (as I understood it) in proposing
a Draft folder, at this time, was that it was a more elegant, simpler,
and
Hello Eugene!
On Thursday, December 15, 2005, 12:02 AM, you wrote:
MB My motto in using the various features of TB! is KISS. (Keep it
MB simple, stupid.)
MB I would like to see The Bat! as elegant and as transparent in its
MB User Interface and as simple and intuitive as possible.
MB Maybe
Hello Neal,
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
NL Still won't use it. I never use Inbox - Known but have been staring at
NL it for years. Just a matter of user choice.
Me neither and choice is the most important thing. It seems that this
request for a Draft folder (which
Hello Ian,
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
IAW The first thing is to either provide an alert or a Draft folder where
IAW messages can be copied or moved AND that messages there can be further
IAW edited.
I was worried about that with the present version so I changed my
Hello Ian!
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 11:39 PM, you wrote:
At the moment when you prepare a new message, the template is either
based on the folder or address etc. Once that message has been saved,
further editing does not see those template features change. To have
the template features
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 5:14:22 PM, Paul Van Noord wrote:
I agree. Regardless of the solution the problem is an exception that
affects a small number of users who have chosen the challenge.
I think that mis-characterizes the problem. It's not like one sets out
to create a problem where
Hi MAU,
Wednesday, December 14, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
This will save from accidentally sending them. You will have to
explicitly unpark them to send them out.
Rubbish.
Now, there is one of my tigresses! ;-)
With pleasure :) :purr:
We all could benefit from a folder
Hello Charlene,
Help to protect us from the outbox protection and add your
That's great!!! :))
--
Best regards,
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441
Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v3.63.09 (Beta) on Windows XP
Hi MAU,
Wednesday, December 14, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
Help to protect us from the outbox protection and add your
That's great!!! :))
I claim no copyright on this altered tagline of yours, you may cp it
anytime :)
--
Help to protect us from the outbox protection and
Hello Charlene,
I claim no copyright on this altered tagline of yours, you may cp it
anytime :)
I'll do for the second round if we don't win the first one ;-)
--
Best regards,
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441
Miguel A. Urech (El
Hello Ian!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 1:14 PM, you wrote:
MB I am talking about the macro %NOUSEPGP .
MB In my Account Properties I have the box Sign when completed checked
MB under Message-Editor settings.
MB When I reopen a message in the Outbox for editing--or just to re-read
MB it
Hi MAU,
Wednesday, December 14, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
I'll do for the second round if we don't win the first one ;-)
To my opinion they must react, it's us, the customers, who pay for their
work.
--
Help to protect us from the outbox protection and add your
support note
Hi Ian
I am not trying to squash the desire for a draft folder, but this
issue you describe should be dealt with separately. The reason I say
this is that if a Drafts folder is introduced because of the surge of
those wanting it, chances are it will be cloned off the Outbox with
the result
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 1:42:43 PM, Mary Bull wrote:
I can see the rush to a Drafts folder end up causing more problems
than it will solve.
I think the developers are in no rush.
I think the desire of posters here and loggers of supporting notes to
Hello Dwight!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 3:35 PM, you wrote:
I can see the rush to a Drafts folder end up causing more problems
than it will solve.
I think the developers are in no rush.
I think the desire of posters here and loggers of supporting notes
to
Hello Charlene,
I'll do for the second round if we don't win the first one ;-)
To my opinion they must react, ...
They won't, I give up. They are stubborn, blind and don't have the time
to read our reasons. So, why waste our time and bother?
--
Best regards,
Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial -
Hello MAU!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 7:45 PM, you wrote:
I'll do for the second round if we don't win the first one ;-)
To my opinion they must react, ...
They won't, I give up. They are stubborn, blind and don't have the
time to read our reasons. So, why waste our time and bother?
Hello Mary,
They won't, I give up. They are stubborn, blind and don't have the
time to read our reasons. So, why waste our time and bother?
I posted to Stefan that your purpose (as I understood it) in proposing
a Draft folder, at this time, was that it was a more elegant, simpler,
and
Hello MAU!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 8:06 PM, you wrote:
They won't, I give up. They are stubborn, blind and don't have the
time to read our reasons. So, why waste our time and bother?
I posted to Stefan that your purpose (as I understood it) in
proposing a Draft folder, at this
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 8:18:59 PM, Mary Bull wrote:
Or--a cup of the :batcoffee: I'm sending your way across the
Atlantic, to be waiting for you when you get up in the morning.
:thumbup:
there is a pastry I often ate for breakfast when I was in Spain, and I
think you or I should
Hello Dwight!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 8:33 PM, you wrote:
Or--a cup of the :batcoffee: I'm sending your way across the
Atlantic, to be waiting for you when you get up in the morning.
:thumbup:
there is a pastry I often ate for breakfast when I was in Spain, and
I think you or I
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 8:59:49 PM, Mary Bull wrote:
You could send one, also Dwight. Never hurts to have two of anything
that good! :)
I'm sending a bottle of Tio Pepe, for later in the day. Opening a new
bottle of Fino around mid-afternoon sounds pretty good to me.
--
Dwight A.
Hello Dwight!
On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 9:15 PM, you wrote:
You could send one, also Dwight. Never hurts to have two of
anything that good! :)
I'm sending a bottle of Tio Pepe, for later in the day. Opening a
new bottle of Fino around mid-afternoon sounds pretty good to me.
Oh,
Mary,
MB My motto in using the various features of TB! is KISS. (Keep it
MB simple, stupid.)
MB I would like to see The Bat! as elegant and as transparent in its
MB User Interface and as simple and intuitive as possible.
MB Maybe we'll get through to the decision-makers on at least *some*
MB
On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 01:09:27AM +0100, MAU wrote:
I can't and won't comment about filters being able to copy/move to
Outbox, let me ask you, why I should not be able to manually copy a
message to Outbox? Where's the enforcing necessity to forbid me, as an
adult, well-informed, tech-freaky
Hello Dwight,
I do have to disagree here. I belong to lists with addresses from
which I can't post, but which must be the sender. The only cure to
that is to compose the message with that account, and put the message
in that outbox. Then you have to drag the message from that outbox to
the
Hello Peter,
As a well-informed adult, shouldn't you think about all users and not
just of yourself?
I do. That's why I think the Draft folder would be a good addition to
being able to Drag 'n Drop a message to Oubox for resending it.
the one for my, the other for other needs.
But then the
Hello Ian!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 11:54 PM, you wrote:
JS As for the Drafts folder proposal, why can't one just create a
JS folder called drafts and drag the saved as draft message to
JS it? It's very intuitive that way since you simply drag into-it :)
JS It's certainly no more time
Hello MAU!
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 2:48 AM, you wrote:
... I think the Draft folder would be a good addition to
being able to Drag 'n Drop a message to Oubox for resending it.
the one for my, the other for other needs.
But then the outbox protection feature has to be implemented
12/13/2005 6:36 AM
Hi Mary,
On 12/13/2005 Mary Bull wrote:
MB Hello MAU!
MB On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 2:48 AM, you wrote:
... I think the Draft folder would be a good addition to
being able to Drag 'n Drop a message to Oubox for resending it.
the one for my, the other for other
Peter Fjelsten,
GP The last time I tried to use this, TB placed a series of copies of
GP the message in the outbox with parked flags. It seems to me that a
GP copy of the message in its most recent form would be sufficient.
GP Also, once the message has been successfully sent, the draft
Hello Gleason!
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 8:34 AM, you wrote:
... I am reminded of the last time I tried to move a folder up in
the server hierarchy. I ended up deleting my folder preferences file
to get TB back to normal. Not sure if that has been fixed. I haven't
noticed it being
Mary Bull,
By server hierarchy, are you still talking about behavior in IMAP?
Yes, IMAP.
I paid attention to your complaint, before, when you first posted
about this happening to you, and although I would like to rearrange
the Account Tree (folder hierarchy) in my own two Accounts (which
Hello Gleason!
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 9:06 AM, you wrote:
If this is only applying to IMAP, then I may get brave and rearrange
the order of a few more folders to make the Account Tree more
convenient for me.
Comments?
I think it might be useful for others who read my complaint to
Hello Maxim,
Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 5:27:58 AM, you wrote:
MM What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message flag
in the Outbox?
MM There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but this is
because they don't have an opportunity to park individual
Hello Peter,
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:28:24 +0100 GMT (13/12/2005, 06:28 +0700 GMT),
Peter Palmreuther wrote:
PP I can't and won't comment about filters being able to copy/move to
PP Outbox, let me ask you, why I should not be able to manually copy a
PP message to Outbox? Where's the enforcing
Hi Mary Bull,
Tuesday, December 13, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
And a Draft folder is an elegant alternative for getting past the
difficulty the outbox protection feature is attempting to solve.
Full ACK!
And in an editable Draft folder, presumably the code would not have
Hi Paul Van Noord,
Tuesday, December 13, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
When I expose a new customer to TB! I tell them up front that it is
quirky and the Help is horrendous but if they will hang in there while
I get them trained they will have a tremendously _safe_ tool at their
Hi Mary Bull,
Monday, December 12, 2005
you let us know -at least in parts- :
For one thing,
Your comments are amazing! Could you please post them to the
appropriate BT entry to not make them lost?
Which do you think appropriate?
To MAU'S BT wish,
Hello Paul,
I too have the multiple account sending problem that Dwight has...
As I wrote to Dwight last night, I think that can be easily (and
perhaps even elegantly ;) solved with templates and/or folder
identities.
--
Best regards,
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
12/13/2005 6:10 PM
Hi Charlene,
On 12/13/2005 Charlene Ferrara wrote:
CF Good point, too. That's why I use Opera and TB. Both tools give back the
CF control to the user that MS once gave away needlessly. Miguel has
CF clearly shown a vision in https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441
CF how
12/13/2005 6:12 PM
Hi MAU,
On 12/13/2005 MAU wrote:
M Hello Paul,
I too have the multiple account sending problem that Dwight has...
M As I wrote to Dwight last night, I think that can be easily (and
M perhaps even elegantly ;) solved with templates and/or folder
M identities.
I agree.
Hello Charlene,
This will save from accidentally sending them. You will have to
explicitly unpark them to send them out.
Rubbish.
Now, there is one of my tigresses! ;-)
--
Best regards,
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441
Miguel A.
Howdy Charlene,
Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 8:44:56 PM, Charlene wrotened:
CF We are nagged more and more by pop-ups stealing our time and attracting
CF attention when we better should concentrate on other things (ie our work)
Awww must we. I dont wanna and you cant make me.
CF Trained by the
Hi Maxim
Can't stand it anymore and have to jump in :) Just like many things in
life, it is a matter of perception.
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message
flag in the Outbox?
Even though I _know_ that message is parked in the Outbox, it is in
the place where all
Hello Neal!
On Tuesday, December 13, 2005, 9:04 PM, you wrote:
+1 for the Draft folder.
:thumbup:
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441
--
Best regards,
Mary
The Bat 3.63.08 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2
Hello Tbbeta,
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message flag in
the Outbox?
There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but this is
because they don't have an opportunity to park individual messages by the
draft flag.
We cal alter the outbox
lunes, 12 dic 2005 at 22:27, it seems you wrote:
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message flag
in the Outbox?
There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but
this is because they don't have an opportunity to park
individual messages by the draft
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hello Maxim,
Monday, December 12, 2005, 9:27:58 PM, you wrote:
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message flag
in the Outbox?
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
How do I know looking at the flag if it
Hello David,
Monday, December 12, 2005, 11:46:08 PM, you wrote:
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
In the Outbox, there is no parked flag. There is only Draft flag in the Outbox.
I have asked for a draft folder since I started using the bat in beta
(about ver 1.3 I think)
Hello Maxim!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 3:27 PM, you wrote:
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message
flag in the Outbox?
For one thing, I can't specify address templates in the Outbox, as
folder template. Therefore, when I save a message in the Outbox, it
alters
Hello Mary,
Monday, December 12, 2005, 12:05:31 AM, you wrote:
For one thing,
Your comments are amazing! Could you please post them to the appropriate BT
entry to not make them lost?
--
Best regards,
Maxim Masiutinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello David!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 3:46 PM, you wrote:
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft
per-message flag in the Outbox?
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
How do I know looking at the flag if it is
1) a message that is finished waiting to
Hello Maxim,
We cal alter the outbox protection feature to automatically mark
all messages copied to the outbox as draft. This will save from
accidentally sending them. You will have to explicitly unpark them
to send them out.
I think, this is the solution.
--
Vili
Maxim Masiutin,
I don't have a great preference about a draft folder. What I would like
is a way to periodically save messages in the process of being created
so, if there is a system or program crash while I am in the process of
creating the message, I don't have to start over. Parking a copy
Hello Maxim!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 4:00 PM, you wrote:
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
In the Outbox, there is no parked flag. There is only Draft flag in
the Outbox.
I think David was referring to your proposed change, to automatically
Park every message that
Hello Maxim!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 4:09 PM, you wrote:
For one thing,
Your comments are amazing! Could you please post them to the
appropriate BT entry to not make them lost?
Which do you think appropriate?
To MAU'S BT wish,
https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441 ,
for the
12/12/2005 5:35 PM
Hi Mary,
On 12/12/2005 Mary Bull wrote:
MB Hello Maxim!
MB On Monday, December 12, 2005, 4:09 PM, you wrote:
For one thing,
Your comments are amazing! Could you please post them to the
appropriate BT entry to not make them lost?
MB Which do you think appropriate?
MB To
On Monday, December 12, 2005, at 17:15:49 [UTC-0500] (Monday, December 12,
2005 23:15 my local time) Gleason Pace wrote:
I don't have a great preference about a draft folder.
Me too, because present solution is convenient for me. However, arguments
for having Draft folder given by Mary are
Hello Paul,
mm There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but
mm this is because they don't have an opportunity to park
mm individual messages by the draft flag.
The problem with Parking in the Outbox is that it is abnormal and
non-intuitive. It is a difficult concept to
Hello Maxim,
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
In the Outbox, there is no parked flag. There is only Draft flag in the
Outbox.
Come on Maxim, think what you say and not just say what you think. Why
if it is a 'Drafts' flag you cannot delete the message and you get a
On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 11:58:01PM +0100, MAU wrote:
As I say in my BT wish, it should never be possible to Copy or Move
messages to the Outbox, either manually or by filters. This is what your
corporate users are actually asking for. Is there any logical reason to
copy or move messages to
Hello David,
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message flag
in the Outbox?
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
How do I know looking at the flag if it is
1) a message that is finished waiting to go but is parked.
or
2) A message that is not
12/12/2005 6:32 PM
Hi MAU,
On 12/12/2005 MAU wrote:
M Hello Maxim,
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message
flag in the Outbox?
There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but this is
because they don't have an opportunity to park individual
12/12/2005 6:39 PM
Hi MAU,
On 12/12/2005 MAU wrote:
M Again fully agree. Except that even if they implement this nonsense they
M will not loose me as a user. With or without this 'nonsense' implemented
M there is nothing out there that can replace TB.
So True..
--
Take Care,
Zygmunt Wereszczynski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What I would like is a way to periodically save messages in the process of
being created so, if there is a system or program crash while I am in the
process of creating the message, I don't have to start over.
Such feature exists in The Bat! since
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hello Mary,
Monday, December 12, 2005, 10:21:09 PM, you wrote:
But that flag is not a draft flag it is a parked flag.
In the Outbox, there is no parked flag. There is only Draft flag in
the Outbox.
I think David was referring to your proposed
Hello Maxim,
What's the point of th Drafts folder if there is draft per-message
flag in the Outbox?
There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but this is
because they don't have an opportunity to park individual messages by
the draft flag.
It is a matter of concept,
12/12/2005 4:49 PM
Hi Maxim,
On 12/12/2005 Maxim Masiutin wrote:
mm There are mail clients that have a separate Drafts folder, but
mm this is because they don't have an opportunity to park
mm individual messages by the draft flag.
The problem with Parking in the Outbox is that it is abnormal
Hello Paul!
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 4:35 PM, you wrote:
MB I am not being sarcastic--I truly need your input here on where
MB in BT I should report these needs.
Sounds real good to me!
Thanks, Paul.
--
Best regards,
Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at:
Hello Peter,
I can't and won't comment about filters being able to copy/move to
Outbox, let me ask you, why I should not be able to manually copy a
message to Outbox? Where's the enforcing necessity to forbid me, as an
adult, well-informed, tech-freaky user, to resend a message by simply
Hello Paul,
We cal alter the outbox protection feature to automatically mark all
messages copied to the outbox as draft. This will save from
accidentally sending them. You will have to explicitly unpark them to
send them out.
M What's the logic and intuitiveness of an outbox protection
Hi MAU,
Monday, December 12, 2005, 11:26:08 PM, you wrote:
Is there any logic in periodically saving in _Outbox_ a message
you are composing? I know it won't go out, but what's the logic of saving
it in Outbox and not anywhere else, for example in a Drafts folder?
I agree, it seems to me
On Monday, December 12, 2005, 4:58:01 PM, MAU wrote:
As I say in my BT wish, it should never be possible to Copy or Move
messages to the Outbox, either manually or by filters.
I do have to disagree here. I belong to lists with addresses from
which I can't post, but which must be the sender.
Hello Peter,
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, at 00:28:24 [GMT +0100] (which was 6:28:24
PM in NY, USA) Peter Palmreuther wrote:
My decision, my responsibility. No need to castrate a program
and prevent me from doing so, without really exigent reasons
Very well said!
As for the Drafts folder proposal,
Maxim...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:27:58 +0200, you wrote:
We cal alter the outbox protection feature to automatically mark all
messages copied to the outbox as draft.
This will save from accidentally sending them. You will have to explicitly
unpark them to send them out.
For an alternative
Gleason,
On 13-12-2005 00:00, you [GP] wrote in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
GP The last time I tried to use this, TB placed a series of copies of
GP the message in the outbox with parked flags. It seems to me that a
GP copy of the message in its most recent form would be sufficient.
GP Also, once the
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