Re: The Bat! 5.1 MSI
Hi Maxim, On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 22:15:14 +0300 UTC (4/18/2012, 2:15 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Could you please test the The Bat! 5.1 MSI files and let us know if M whey install well. M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_5-1-0.msi Installed on Windows 2008 R2 (64 bit) server without problems. -- Gary Current beta is 5.1.0.3 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 5.0.35 MSI
Hi Maxim, On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:02:03 +0200 UTC (2/29/2012, 3:02 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Could you please test The Bat! 5.0.35 MSI files: M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_5-0-36.msi Installed on W2008 R2 server without problems. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.34.5 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.34 MSI files
Hi Maxim, On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:27:59 +0200 UTC (1/28/2012, 2:27 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Please test 5.0.34 MSI files. M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_5-0-34.msi Installed perfectly (and very fast) on W2008 R2 server. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.30.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MSI files 5.0.32
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 6 Jan 2012 08:01:25 +0200 UTC (1/6/2012, 12:01 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Could you please test the MSI files: M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_5-0-32.msi Installed perfectly on W2008 R2. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.30.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MSI files
Hi Maxim, On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 14:53:45 +0200 UTC (12/27/2011, 6:53 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Hello Tbbeta, M Could you please test the MSI files: M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_5-0-30.msi Installed on W2008 R2 server without problems. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.26.19 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: item for wish list
Hi Mark, On Tue, 9 Aug 2011 11:55:05 +0200 UTC (8/9/2011, 4:55:05 AM -0600 UTC my time), Mark Partous wrote: M Why limit this to TB! ? M Personally I use PhraseExpress Pro (non-Pro is Free) M http://www.phraseexpress.com/ M By using something like that, I can use it in whatever application I am M using. M Among many other uses, it saves me a lot of time naming files related to M the same subject, f.i.: My thanks to you for the above, and to Dierk for his input. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.22.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
item for wish list
Hi guys, For a long time, I have been thinking about TB having the ability to store word or phrases in the form of a word/phrase expander. An example would be -- Regards, Gary Current beta is 5.0.22.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
item for wish list
Hi guys, sorry, mouse-yips, sent before completing :) For a long time, I have been thinking about TB having the ability to store word or phrases in the form of a word/phrase expander. This is different from a quick template. An example would be, if I type in tyvm and say hit shift+spacebar, this would expand out to thank you very much. The vocabulary one can add is unlimited. I know of only one other MS mail client that has this capability, other than Linux mail clients such as Mutt using VIM as an editor. Vim can store any number of shortcut words/phrases. Just a thought. It would really save on typing for power users. -- Regards, Gary Current beta is 5.0.22.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: item for wish list
Hi Dwight, On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 18:53:20 -0500 UTC(8/8/2011, 6:53:20 PM -0600 UTC my time), Dwight Corrin wrote: For a long time, I have been thinking about TB having the ability to store word or phrases in the form of a word/phrase expander. This is different from a quick template. D how is this different than a quick Template? Well, this would be simple and lighter to use in that no macros would be involved, not the full blown features of a quick template, e.g attaching files, etc, but rather just text expansion, a pure word / phrase expander if you will. It would have the ability with a keystroke to save highlighted text into the expander, as well as expanding a shortcut with another keystroke or combo (user customizable). -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.22.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Windows Server 2008
Hi Maxim, On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:16:36 -0500 UTC(7/26/2011, 11:16 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Hello Tbbeta, M Does anybody run The Bat! under Windows Server 2008? Are there any problems M under this operating system? Max, I have a 2008 R2 (64bit) server running, and would be happy to test on this of you wish. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.18.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
no text in reply
Hi guys, In this latest beta version, not only do I not have any partially quoted text (F4) in a reply, but any time I reply to any message, even full replies using (Ctrl+F5), no text is shown in the editor window. This applies to both HTML or plain txt mail. -- Regards, Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.145 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: no text in reply
Hi Dwight, On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 12:06:57 -0600 UTC (3/7/2011, 12:06 PM -0600 UTC my time), Dwight Corrin wrote: In latest beta version, not only do I not have any partially quoted text (F4) in a reply, but any time I reply to any message, even full replies using (Ctrl+F5), no text is shown in the editor window. D can't confirm for plain text. found an html message, and it worked D properly for me there as well. This is the first message I was able to reply (F4) which showed the reply text. The last 150 or so since this beta came out did not... and this is a clean install on a new Windows 7 machine. Even a simply full reply does not show any text. Very strange. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.145 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: no text in reply
Hi Marek, On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:30:45 +0100 UTC (3/7/2011, 12:30 PM -0600 UTC my time), Marek Mikus wrote: This is the first message I was able to reply (F4) which showed the reply text. The last 150 or so since this beta came out did not... and this is a clean install on a new Windows 7 machine. Even a simply full reply does not show any text. Very strange. M what editor type do You have selected? Good question... MicroEd with auto-wrap and auto-format set. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.145 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: no text in reply
Hi Stuart, On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 14:05:42 -0600 UTC(3/7/2011, 2:05 PM -0600 UTC my time), Stuart wrote: S Do you by any chance have an account that needs a password to be opened. I have S had this happen, where the quick template I was using was defined in the S password protected account and cannot be shared unless that account is opened. No passwords. S There may also be issues of other kinds if you are using quick templates for S replies. No QTs -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.146 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: no text in reply
Hi Ron, On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 16:36:53 -0500 UTC (3/7/2011, 3:36 PM -0600 UTC my time), Ron Secord wrote: Good question... MicroEd with auto-wrap and auto-format set. R That's kinda weird Gary, because I had a similar issue up until this R latest Beta. Now F4 works fine here. I just changed between Windows R MicroEd editors to see if it made a difference and it still works fine R in either. It is weird Ron... I can't explain it, but it has been intermittent in several betas now, except this last beta, it appears almost all the time. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.146 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.145
Hi CE, On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:44:30 -0500 UTC(2/28/2011, 8:44 PM -0600 UTC my time), CE YI wrote: C Since 14x version, when I right-click on the toolsbar, then select 'Customise', it gives me an AV. I am seeing this also. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.145 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Reply quoting selected text (F4) does not always work
Hi Ron, On Thursday, February 10, 2011 Gary, [G] wrote: I noticed this after I set up TB on a fresh install on a new machine Windows7 x64. It is very frustrating. On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 18:52:33 -0500 UTC (2/11/2011, 5:52 PM -0600 UTC my time), Ron Secord wrote: R Well, that's interesting, because that's exactly what's happened here. R I loaded a fresh install (w/ ver. 4.x) then upgraded to 5.0.0.112 R have had this issue since. That is exactly the same setup procedure I used. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.138 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Reply quoting selected text (F4) does not always work
Hi Ron, On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:19:46 -0500 UTC (2/10/2011, 5:19 PM -0600 UTC my time), Ron Secord wrote: I have had several emails in which I replied to (both in HTML and txt) in which the reply quoted selected text has not worked. This leaves a blank email in the reply. Anyone else seeing this? R Replying selected text (F4) has not worked for me at all since version R 5.0.0.112. Unfortunately, It seems that only a very few are affected by R this so I don't think it's getting alot of attention. I noticed this after I set up TB on a fresh install on a new machine Windows7 x64. It is very frustrating. R BTW, I only highlighted the 1st two words of your message and you see R what got quoted. :) -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.138 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Reply quoting selected text (F4) does not always work
Hi guys, I have had several emails in which I replied to (both in HTML and txt) in which the reply quoted selected text has not worked. This leaves a blank email in the reply. Anyone else seeing this? -- Regards, Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.138 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: problems with sending from imap account
Hi Martin, On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 14:06:58 +0100 UTC (2/4/2011, 7:06 AM -0600 UTC my time), Martin Schoch wrote: M Hi Roelof M Over here IMAP account - send SMTP via port 465, TLS M The messages are sent - but not stored in the IMAP folder Sent M on the server, only locally. As set in the configuration Mail Management M sent mail should be stored in the IMAP folder Sent - this does not M work. I have same problem here on one account. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.136 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.134
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 05:20:56 +0200 UTC(1/27/2011, 9:20 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.134 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500134.rar I find that every time I exit TB, it hangs when purging the Trash folder (which is the last folder to purge). All other folders purge properly. I have to manually click on cancel in order to close TB. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.134 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.132 - Disconnects to remote IMAP server
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:14:58 +0200 UTC (1/21/2011, 4:14 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.132 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500132.rar I am getting this error when I log into a remote IMAP server. All previous betas have worked perfectly. This beta is different and disconnects me. 1/21/2011, 09:36:13: IMAP - IMAP server authentication OK, server says LOGIN completed !1/21/2011, 09:36:52: IMAP - AddRemotePartEx.Error.Instream=nil.Folder=Inbox !1/21/2011, 09:36:52: IMAP - AddRemotePartEx.Error.Instream=nil.Folder=Inbox 1/21/2011, 09:36:57: IMAP - Disconnected -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.132 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.131
Hi Maxim, On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:40:27 +0200 UTC(1/18/2011, 12:40 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.131 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500131.rar For some reason, I find this version extremely slow. By this I mean, any new message selected opens extremely slow. I have TB set to IMAP on the server on my LAN side, not WAN, so historically is very fast to open any size message. Now, they all open very slow. Even a 29K HTML email takes a few seconds to open, -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.131 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0 showstoppers
Hi Stefan, On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 09:55:37 +0200 UTC (1/15/2011, 1:55 AM -0600 UTC my time), Stefan Tanurkov wrote: S So, please post your showstoppers as replies to this message and we S will deal with them asap. Please don't forget to add a BT link, too. S Thank you! Certainly others have posted their stoppers, but mine is simple. I am still getting AVs when moving to a different message. This does not happen often, but often enough to be bothersome. Once the AVs start in a TB session, they continue. I am sending exception log to you off list. Regards, -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.128 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.129
Hi Maxim, On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:39:19 +0200 UTC(1/15/2011, 3:39 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.129 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500129.rar M What's new in 5.0.0.129 since 5.0.0.128: I have had two complete crashes of TB due to resource leaks. Exception logs sent to Stefan. This beta is very unstable to me. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.128 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.127
Hi Maxim, On Sat, 8 Jan 2011 10:45:42 +0200 UTC (1/8/2011, 2:45 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.127 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500127.rar AVs appear to be resolved so far. I have not had one after opening and closing TB multiple times today. I have TB set to Empty Trash on Exit and Compact all folders on Exit. The only thing I note is that when shutting down TB, it always hangs when compacting the Trash Folder. I have to click on Cancel to shut down TB. If I turn off Compact all folders on Exit, TB shuts down properly. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.126 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.125
Hi Maxim, On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:28:16 +0200 UTC (12/30/2010, 1:28 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.125 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500125.rar This latest beta is unusable. Continuous AVs and out of bounds on any email I click on. Exceptions log sent to Stefan. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.125 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.123
Hi Arkadiusz, On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 10:02:45 +0100 UTC(12/22/2010, 3:02 AM -0600 UTC my time), Arkadiusz Gawlik wrote: A Confirmed. Also I got AV (see below): Yes, I had a lot of them this morning, one AV shut TB down, memory leak. Sent log to Stefan. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.123 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.123
Hi Maxim, On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:03:13 +0200 UTC (12/21/2010, 4:03 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.123 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500123.rar Hey, working much better here... have not had an AV in about an hour of this new beta use :) Terrific ! I do note that when looking at the headers (ctrl+shift+K) every line of the headers only begins with a small box. No biggie, but wanted to mention it. If I try to cut and paste it in here, it disappears. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.123 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.123
Hi Maxim, On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:03:13 +0200 UTC(12/21/2010, 4:03 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.123 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500123.rar Trash Folder still does not empty upon exiting. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.123 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.121
Hi Maxim, On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:03:36 +0200 UTC (12/20/2010, 12:03 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.121 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500121.rar M What's new in 5.0.0.121 since 5.0.0.120: M [-] (#0008206) Access Violation error when an IMAP task finished (Beta issue) AVs are gone now, nice work. Makes TB usable. :) Still have problem with mail not being deleted from Trash upon exit (using IMAP). They are always still in the trash upon restart of TB. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.119 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.121
Hi Arkadiusz, On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:57:02 +0100 UTC(12/20/2010, 12:57 PM -0600 UTC my time), Arkadiusz Gawlik wrote: G Still have problem with mail not being deleted from Trash upon exit (using G IMAP). They are always still in the trash upon restart of TB. A The same problem is in POP3 accounts. They had it working a few betas ago, but not since. Fills up my mail server with marked deleted mail, makes an extra step necessary to clean it out. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.119 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.122
Hi Maxim, On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:04:41 +0200 UTC (12/20/2010, 1:04 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M What's new in 5.0.0.122 since 5.0.0.121: M [-] Fixed an AV when closing the message editor in beta 121 (BETA issue) Still getting AV when moving to any different IMAP message... it shutdown TB. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.122 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.122
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:07:53PM -0700 or thereabouts, Bob Riley wrote: Hi Gary, Monday, December 20, 2010, 1:11:40 PM, you wrote: M What's new in 5.0.0.122 since 5.0.0.121: M [-] Fixed an AV when closing the message editor in beta 121 (BETA issue) G Still getting AV when moving to any different IMAP message... it shutdown G TB. I cannot confirm that issue with my gmail IMAP account (my only TB account). Hi Bob, Gmail does not follow the IMAP protocol 100% and I am glad you do not have any problems with it. :) Currently, TB is very frustrating for me to use because of the AVs. I am using the 5th largest selling mail server, MDaemon, and they follow the IMAP protocol completely. I have not had any previous IMAP problems with any of my customers or the email clients they use.. all toll, they use about 30 different email clients, currently one uses an earlier version of TB, but with POP only. Over the holidays, I plan on setting up an Exchange 2010 server, if I have time, to test TB on this also. I will virtualize this and put it on another unused commercial static IP I have open from my NSP. Kindest regards, Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.122 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.120
Hi Maxim, On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 00:31:20 +0200 UTC (12/18/2010, 4:31 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.120 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500120.rar Still getting many AVs when switching to a different message. Still getting mail not being deleted from the Trash Folder when exiting for last two betas. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.119 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.119
Hi Maxim, On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 04:38:22 +0200 UTC (12/17/2010, 8:38 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.119 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500119.rar Trash is not being emptied from trash folder upon exit again in this version. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.119 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 5.0.0.118 BETA
Hi Maxim, On Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:00:40 +0200 UTC (12/13/2010, 3:00 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.118 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500118.rar I continue to get AVs on almost every email I click on, then TB will shut down or freeze after awhile. I also get Out of Bounds occasionally. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.118 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.116
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 18:09:56 +0200 UTC (12/10/2010, 10:09 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.116 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500116.rar For the last several betas, I get 2 AVs on almost every message I click on, one right after the other. Eventually it shuts down TB. Makes it unusable for me. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.116 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP ACL function
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:03:43 +0200 UTC (12/3/2010, 1:03 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: Will TB eventually support the IMAP ACL function ? M We didn't see any demand for it so far, why do you need IMAP ACL? The environment that I use both personally, and professionally (in the business world) usually like and use ACL, as many businesses have need for this. As an MDaemon reseller, I come across this need all the time, when businesses want or need to share certain IMAP folders among co-workers. For example, a sales force of a company needs to share key folders among themselves, or certain other departments need to share IMAP folders, or need to add other workers to have access to certain folders, etc. Also in a way, at times, IMAP ACL becomes a cheap alternative for businesses to bypass the need for a network file server, but in all cases the ACL allows groups of people to share and collaborate information via shared folders on an IMAP capable server. Of course, the business aspect my not be the market you guys are targeting, but for those people who use or would consider TB in their business, the IMAP ACL would be an asset. Simply put, I think by adding ACL, it would put TB in a better marketing position for use in their business world, as to compete against Outlook or Thunderbird. Kindest regards, -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.113 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.113
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:56:37 +0200 UTC (12/3/2010, 12:56 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.113 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500113.rar M What's new in 5.0.0.113 since 5.0.0.112: M [-] Trash folders were not emptied on exit (Beta issue) My trash folders are still full after exit. I do not see this as fixed. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.113 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
5.0.0.113 Access Violation
Hi guys, When moving to next message, I get Access violation at address 00 several times. Also sometimes TB crashes when moving to new message. Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.113 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.113
On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:52:20 -0600 UTC (12/3/2010, 8:52 AM -0600 UTC my time), Gary wrote: G Hi Maxim, G On Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:56:37 +0200 UTC (12/3/2010, 12:56 AM -0600 UTC my G time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.113 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500113.rar M What's new in 5.0.0.113 since 5.0.0.112: M [-] Trash folders were not emptied on exit (Beta issue) G My trash folders are still full after exit. I do not see this as fixed. As a follow up to this, trash folders are now empty, so it is working. Thank you. The main problem in what I saw was due to TB closing okay from the screen, but I had three thebate.exe running in the Task Mgr. So TB although closed on my screen, is actually still running as a background process. Every time I close TB, it seems it is still running, so when opening TB up again, I now have two or more TB processes running. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.113 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 08:12:29PM +0200 or thereabouts, Stefan Tanurkov wrote: Hello Gary, G Messages are not being deleted from the Trash Folder upon closing TB. My G various TB accounts are marked and set up to do so. Fixed, thanks for reminding! Thanks for fixing :) Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
5.0.0.122 - closing IMAP connection
I note that upon exiting TB, and looking at my IMAP logs, TB does not issue any IMAP command to close the connection(s). From my IMAP logs: Wed 2010-12-01 12:47:25: Socket connection closed by the other side (how rude!) Wed 2010-12-01 12:47:25: IMAP session terminated, (10715 bytes) Wouldn't a more elegant way of closing the connection be for TB to say/issue Wed 2010-12-01 12:45:42: -- A00012 LOGOUT Wed 2010-12-01 12:45:42: -- * BYE IMAP engine signing off (no errors) Wed 2010-12-01 12:45:42: -- A00012 OK LOGOUT completed Wed 2010-12-01 12:45:42: IMAP session complete, (4329 bytes) -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMAP ACL function
Will TB eventually support the IMAP ACL function ? Regards, -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
Hi Ron, On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:43:09 -0500 UTC (12/1/2010, 3:43 PM -0600 UTC my time), Ron Secord wrote: R Just upgraded to this version. I'm having a problem (quite often) that R when I click on a message to open it, I get the message window open, R but all it says is No Message Loaded. After messing with the message R a bit by closing and re-opening or going to a different message and R then back it will open. R Anyone had this issue? I also see this occasionally with IMAP. When this happens, once I go to another folder and return to that folder and message, the message(s) load normally. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
Hi Maxim, TB is still not closing down properly after shutdown. TheBat.exe is still running in the Task Mgr. (XP SP3) On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:07:59 +0200 UTC (11/30/2010, 10:07 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.112 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500112.rar -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
Hey Marck - long time no hear :) On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:00:37 + UTC (11/30/2010, 2:00 PM -0600 UTC my time), Marck Pearlstone wrote: M Not new: Can't use this build either. 107 is the last build that M works with my IMAP configuration. What version are you using MD with? TB also works with various Linux IMAP servers I have. M Anyone else getting this communications black out behaviour? MD works fine here with TB, but using beta 12. Stable v11 also worked. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
Hi Maxim, Messages are not being deleted from the Trash Folder upon closing TB. My various TB accounts are marked and set up to do so. On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:07:59 +0200 UTC (11/30/2010, 10:07 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M The Bat! 5.0.0.112 BETA is available at M http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500112.rar -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.112
Hi Marck, yes Sir :) On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 20:16:11 + UTC (11/30/2010, 2:16 PM -0600 UTC my time), Marck Pearlstone wrote: G What version are you using MD with? TB also works with various Linux IMAP G servers I have. M MD 8.0.3 - works brilliantly with 5.0.0.107 and earlier builds. M Nothing since then. I can download all headers, but when I start M reading bodies, I get one message then it stops receiving. When I M exit the software after this has happened, I get the Active tasks M dialog asking me to wait for the account in question to stop waiting M for the server. This is very weird. Although your MD version is very old, the IMAP protocol, as you know, has not changed for years. Do you see anything in the IMAP logs to indicate this? Also check your security settings, dynamic screening. You could be blocking yourself out if not whitelisting your IP block. If you wish, I can set you up with a test acct on my MD server, so you can see if there is a difference in what you are seeing in TB. -- Gary Current beta is 5.0.0.112 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: full list
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:20:12 +0200 UTC (11/26/2010, 12:20 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Could you please make a full list what's left to do to make a M release? I note that TB does not exit cleanly. By that I mean, when viewing the Task Manager, TB still shows itself being active. I had 7 thebat.exe going, although each time I exited, they all were exited normally from the screen. So TB is really not closing out. -- Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: full list
Hi NetVicious, On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 21:19:30 +0100 UTC (11/26/2010, 2:19 PM -0600 UTC my time), NetVicious wrote: I note that TB does not exit cleanly. By that I mean, when viewing the Task Manager, TB still shows itself being active. I had 7 thebat.exe going, although each time I exited, they all were exited normally from the screen. So TB is really not closing out. N Here closes ok but sometimes I got one chump. I think it's related N with the deletion of attachments. I sent one log to Maxim so they N should check it the chump it's related to attachments or not. Ah, that would explain it, thanks. So far in v .110, this has not happened on my machine, and I have opened and closed TB several times already. -- Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: full list
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:20:12 +0200 UTC (11/26/2010, 12:20 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Could you please make a full list what's left to do to make a M release? Empty Trash Folder on Exit is not working here. -- Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.0.108
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 09:30:10PM +0200 or thereabouts, Maxim Masiutin wrote: The Bat! 5.0.0.108 ALPHA is available at http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb500108.rar What's new in 5.0.0.108 since 5.0.0.107: [-] Compress IMAP folders on exit didn't work in the recent alpha (BETA issue) confirmed as fixed, per my IMAP server logs. Thank you very much. Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * OK IMAP4rev1 ready Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 1 CAPABILITY Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 AUTH=LOGIN AUTH=PLAIN IDLE STARTTLS ACL UNSELECT UIDPLUS Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 1 OK CAPABILITY completed Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 2 LOGIN x...@.com ** Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 2 OK LOGIN completed Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 3 SELECT DD Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft \Recent) Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * 80 EXISTS Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * 0 RECENT Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * OK [UNSEEN 45] first unseen Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1270312788] UIDs valid Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * OK [UIDNEXT 112] Predicted next UID Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft)] . Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 3 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 4 EXPUNGE Wed 2010-11-24 15:14:53: -- 4 OK EXPUNGE completed -- Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP Expunge not working
Hi Stefan, On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 06:46:42AM +0200 or thereabouts, Stefan Tanurkov wrote: Hello Gary, G I am still seeing messages only marked for deletion in various folders, G but not actually expunged. You should switch the protocol logging on to see what actually happens. Here, I see the Expunge commands sent and executed with no problem. I did some checking, and this is what I found in my logs. There is no EXPUNGE command given by TB .106 seen either in my TB logs or in my IMAP server logs. I will list part of the server logs below. I just shows the DELETE command given, but not EXPUNGE. I also see this in the TB logs, no EXPUNGE command given. Just to make sure, can you tell me what function in TB, or what do I have to do to force TB to give the EXPUNGE command? I have tried (in Folder Pane) to either compact or compact/compress (CTRL+C) and these do not issue the EXPUNGE command to the server? If I select a Folder, and go to Edit Folder Properties, under Exit Actions Section, if I check Remove Old Messages, what does this mean? Will this cause an EXPUNGE, or will this just delete old messages, and what is the definition of Old Messages? Since TB is moving more to the IMAP functionality, I would like to see an actual Expunge command, called Expunge, which I can assign a hotkey to, either in the Folder Pane, or Information Pane, as people or organizations who use IMAP are already familiar with this function name. Below is just a partial of my server IMAP logs. Throughout the entire session which I have not enclosed due to its length, there was not one EXPUNGE command received by the mail server when using TB. Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK IMAP4rev1 ready Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 1 CAPABILITY Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 NAMESPACE AUTH=CRAM-MD5 AUTH=LOGIN AUTH=PLAIN IDLE STARTTLS ACL UNSELECT UIDPLUS Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 1 OK CAPABILITY completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 2 LOGIN g...@x ** Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 2 OK LOGIN completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 3 STATUS Public Folders/Mail Archive (MESSAGES UNSEEN RECENT UIDNEXT UIDVALIDITY) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * STATUS Public Folders/Mail Archive (MESSAGES 0 UNSEEN 0 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 1 UIDVALIDITY 1278443348) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 3 OK STATUS completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 4 SELECT Public Folders/Mail Archive Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft \Recent) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * 0 EXISTS Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * 0 RECENT Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1278443348] UIDs valid Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [UIDNEXT 1] Predicted next UID Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft)] . Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 4 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 5 UID SEARCH 1:* DELETED Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 5 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 6 UID SEARCH 1:* UNSEEN Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 6 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 7 UID SEARCH 1:* DELETED Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 7 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 8 UID SEARCH 1:* UNSEEN Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 8 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 9 STATUS Outbox (MESSAGES UNSEEN RECENT UIDNEXT UIDVALIDITY) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * STATUS Outbox (MESSAGES 0 UNSEEN 0 RECENT 0 UIDNEXT 4 UIDVALIDITY 1245686814) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 9 OK STATUS completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00010 SELECT Outbox Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft \Recent) Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * 0 EXISTS Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * 0 RECENT Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1245686814] UIDs valid Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [UIDNEXT 4] Predicted next UID Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft)] . Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00010 OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00011 UID SEARCH 1:* DELETED Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00011 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00012 UID SEARCH 1:* UNSEEN Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00012 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00013 UID SEARCH 1:* DELETED Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00013 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00014 UID SEARCH 1:* UNSEEN Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- * SEARCH Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:47: -- 00014 OK SEARCH completed Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:48: -- 00015 IDLE Fri 2010-11-19 08:04:48: -- + idling Fri 2010-11-19 08:05:29: Socket connection closed by the other side Fri 2010-11
Re: IMAP Expunge not working
Hi Stefan, I am still seeing messages only marked for deletion in various folders, but not actually expunged. My default delete setting is to move to trash. I have tried using Ctrl+C on the particular folder, as well as the purge and compact action in the information tab with no results, using .106. Kindest regards, Gary On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 22:03:46 +0200 UTC (11/18/2010, 2:03 PM -0600 UTC my time), Stefan Tanurkov wrote: S Hello Gary, G Seems all mail deleted never does get deleted, G just marked for deletion, but never really expunged. S This is fixed in the .106 as well as purging is now available for IMAP S folders . Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP Expunge not working
Hi Stefan, On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 06:46:42 +0200 UTC (11/18/2010, 10:46 PM -0600 UTC my time), Stefan Tanurkov wrote: S Hello Gary, G I am still seeing messages only marked for deletion in various folders, G but not actually expunged. S You should switch the protocol logging on to see what actually S happens. Here, I see the Expunge commands sent and executed with no S problem. I will do this tomorrow morning as new email comes in and report back. I will also look at the IMAP logs on my mail server, relative to the time of purging, and send you anything out of the ordinary. G My default delete setting is to move to trash. I have tried using G Ctrl+C on the particular folder, as well as the purge and compact G action in the information tab with no results, using .106. S OK, here I see a little problem - looks like Ctrl+C pressed in the S folderpane (which is also Folder|Compact) and clicking links on S information pane are different. In the Folder pane, Ctrl+C is listed as purge+compact S So, using the commands from the Folder menu should now produce S expected results and we must change the links behaviour accordingly :-) Ah, Okay. I will use the commands from the Folder Menu and report back. -- Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMAP Expunge not working
Hi guys, Using 5.0.0.104, and throughout all the 5.0.0 alphas, I note the following When using Move to Trash as a normal deletion, and either compact when exiting or manually purge and compact with a Ctrl+C, when looking inside my IMAP server, or looking at the INBOX with other IMAP email clients, I see all deleted mail marked for deletion, but not actually deleted. This happens in all folders. Seems all mail deleted never does get deleted, just marked for deletion, but never really expunged. Since the IMAP code has been competely rewritten (nice job BTW, much faster), I would like to see in the Account Properties / Mail Management / Deletion section, an option to actually say and perform an Expunge, and where I can assign this function to a hotkey. This is truly for the IMAP spec. -- Regards, Gary Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.0.24.17
Hi Neal, Confirmed here on both items.. this has been going on for the last 3 betas. On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 03:51:22 -0800 UTC (6/5/2008, 6:51 AM -0500 UTC my time), Neal Laugman wrote: MM The Bat! 4.0.24.17 is available at MM http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb402417.rar Still get AV when TB loads. However AV changed from address 0062D7C9 in 4.0.24.16 to 0062DAE1 in 4.0.23.16. The read address remains the same 0040. N Access violation at address 0062DAE1 in the module 'thebat.exe'. Read of address 00040. N Additionally, the font size of the message list 'list control' is not N what it has been set at. For instance, if it is Tahoma 8, it appears N to be Tahoma 11. This is also true with Message Headers and their N values. -- Gary Current beta is 4.0.24.17 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Secure wish
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008, Gunivortus Goos wrote: You are right, I tried it out and it failed. Hmmm still searching a way to send/recieve mail secure (scrambled) without using PGP or S/MIME. https://www.ciphire.com/ -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Secure wish
Hi Maxim, On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 22:41:35 +0200 UTC (1/6/2008, 2:41 PM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Another simple solution is to use TLS for receiving and transmitting M messages and to use a single trusted server for all M correspondents. Good point Max.. I wish every mail server would use TLS/SSL -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Imap
Hi Gleason, On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:18:10 -0500 UTC (1/2/2008, 2:18 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: Again, we were talking about IMAP, and how hard it is. G But yes, Imap is a difficult protocol, and it looks to me like Rit gets G the prize for sticking to the task of producing an email client that does G a respectable job of navigating it. right... just like I *still* have to clear cache because TB! can't read the message body on mail. this still persists after 2 years of TB! IMAP. I never have to jump through hoops to read IMAP mail, and never get this from any other email client, T-Bird, Mulberry, Mutt, Pine, Outlook, and the client list goes on. Oh ya, Outlook and Mutt allow you to edit/change the message body of any email in any folder. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Imap
Hi Gleason, On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:20:13 -0500 UTC (1/2/2008, 3:20 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: right... just like I *still* have to clear cache because TB! can't read the message body on mail. this still persists after 2 years of TB! IMAP. G I haven't seen this problem in ages. I see you don't show the version G you are using in your sig. Obviously the latest alpha, although this goes back the very first IMAP version, so does it matter? It ain't fixed, like several other IMAP problems that have been discussed. G If I were still seeing this problem long after others no longer are, I G would wonder what I was doing wrong, or maybe corrupted message base? G Time to think. Look Mr. Time to Think. I build email / IMAPS / DNS servers for a living. Get it, I do it professionally, Over the many years, I have built every IMAP server out there. I don't have to think, I know. I am not tied to any one IMAP server, as many of you are with Fastmail or whomever you choose to use for IMAP. TB! can only cause a corrupted client side cache, that's what I am talking about that's why you have to clear the client side cache. I don't have this with any other client. There is no corrupted message base (server side) as you call it. I never build IMAP servers to use mbox formats just maildir format... one message each file, not spooled (1 file, all mail) as in mbox format (so you don't have to look up what I am talking about.) -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: What's new in 4.0.0.2
Hi Maxim, On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:51:24 +0200 UTC (12/22/2007, 9:51 AM -0600 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: I just sent my first email with this 4.0.0.2 version, and spell checking is not working at all (either auto checking or check entire txt) . I realize it is alpha, but thought you should know. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.29 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Mike, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:59:27 -0500 UTC (10/12/2007, 6:59 PM -0500 UTC my time), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: t TheBat!'s IMAP handling is crude and unpredictable. I would never trust t it in a production environment. The HTML display is not tolerable until t we have the choice to display images. I have only partially quoted your well thought out and purposeful email regarding IMAP. I have been saying this for years, and it still is unpredictable. All this afternoon and yesterday, I am seeing an old bug recur over and over. This is where you click on a new email, and there is no message body. Hence, either this email is no longer there, or there is some other issue. The way to correct this is to Clear Catch Now... my question is why is this necessary on TB!'s implementation of IMAP? No other client requires me to clear the cache to read email properly at any time. It requires unnecessary steps just to read mail. It is bothersome, troubling, and tells me that IMAP is still not right. I cannot trust TB! IMAP for production use. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gleason, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:45:51 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 7:45 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: G Interesting. One of the things I positively didn't like about G Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice. If I delete it, G I want it to be gone. All gone. POP users have survived a long time G without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become G necessary for Imap users? This is the IMAP protocol, deletion is a 2 step process, as stated in the RFC... a message is marked for deletion, then it is expunged. There is a feature in Mulberry where you delete a message or thread, and then when you go to another folder, or close the existing folder, it auto expunges or deletes the messages marked for deletion. It takes me 2 keystrokes to permanently delete threads for example. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gleason, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:19:32 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:19 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: G I also subscribe to the Mulberry and Pegasus discussion lists. It is G worthy of remark how many of my fellow subscribers are IT types who G think developers should be guided by their needs. Since it is now open source, any one can be in the development. Over the many years of being on that list also, I have found the above not to be the case. G In the case of Mulberry, they have convinced Cyrus to take Mulberry open G source after helping bankrupt it with their narrow vision of what an G email client should be (no html, etc.). nothing can be farther from the truth from the above statement. The company that merged with Mulberry, (Cyrusoft) lost a big govt contract that they bid on. It is that simple. It had nothing to do with Mulberry the client or any IT people driving it in a certain direction. The above is totally false. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gary, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:23:37 -0500 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:23 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gary wrote: G Hi Gleason, G On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 20:45:51 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 7:45 PM -0500 UTC my G time), Gleason Pace wrote: G Interesting. One of the things I positively didn't like about G Mulberry was the necessity to delete messages twice. If I delete it, G I want it to be gone. All gone. POP users have survived a long time G without needing to deleting messages twice, why does this become G necessary for Imap users? G This is the IMAP protocol, deletion is a 2 step process, as stated in the G RFC... a message is marked for deletion, then it is expunged. There is a G feature in Mulberry where you delete a message or thread, and then when you G go to another folder, or close the existing folder, it auto expunges or G deletes the messages marked for deletion. It takes me 2 keystrokes to G permanently delete threads for example. I forgot to add that since you complain about deleting messages twice tells me you know nothing about IMAP protocol or standards, which is something Mulberry follows better than any other client. It is a complex protocol. So your complaints are that they follow the protocol exactly, and that is bad. Your above complaints are directed at Mulberry, where in reality it should be directed at the IMAP protocol. You dislike the messenger (Mulberry) for bringing you the bad news, not the sender, which in this case is the protocol/IMAP RFC :) -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gleason, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:45:18 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:45 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: G In the case of Mulberry, they have convinced Cyrus to take Mulberry open G source after helping bankrupt it with their narrow vision of what an G email client should be (no html, etc.). nothing can be farther from the truth from the above statement. The company that merged with Mulberry, (Cyrusoft) lost a big govt contract that they bid on. It is that simple. It had nothing to do with Mulberry the client or any IT people driving it in a certain direction. The above is totally false. G Good. Then perhaps you would agree that what gets used in a G production environment might not necessarily be the largest concern G that Rit might have with TB. It should be their largest concern.. my definition of a production environment is that of using a software product day in and day out individually or within or upon a network of computers *without* problems. In other words, it is the opposite of either alpha or beta software, where you would not use a product/software for day to day activities, because it is inherently unstable or has too many bugs. Since I use IMAP and my clients all use IMAP on my servers, there are problems. They call me, taking my time (which is money) to answer problems related to IMAP and TB! I don't get IMAP calls when they use other email clients. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! 4.0
Hi Gleason, On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:58:59 -0400 UTC (10/12/2007, 8:58 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: I forgot to add that since you complain about deleting messages twice tells me you know nothing about IMAP protocol or standards, which is something Mulberry follows better than any other client. It is a complex protocol. So your complaints are that they follow the protocol exactly, and that is bad. G Exactly, it is a complex and large protocol. Have you ever read it? G That is why producing a really good implementation has eluded all G comers to date. Again not true. you make a very big generalization upon a subject you obviously know nothing about. G Not that Rit is ripping people off by not doing what they promised. Since you don't know about the IMAP protocol or its basic fuctionality or features, or advanced features, I hardly think the above statement is credible. Your above complaints are directed at Mulberry, where in reality it should be directed at the IMAP protocol. You dislike the messenger (Mulberry) for bringing you the bad news, not the sender, which in this case is the protocol/IMAP RFC G Yes, it is that way because the specifications say it should be. I G think Rit got it right by ignoring the specification on this one. Let G them continue to be guided by what real people using their program G might want. Then why use any RFC protocol at all, even SMTP, or POP, or heck... now you can be Microsoft and just use what you want.. You are missing the point because you do not understand the problem. Generalizations do not help, and being sadly misinformed, e.g. the Mulberry history, are just ranting without knowledge. Sorry, gotta go and this is silly. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access Denied at www.ritlabs.com
Hi Maxim, On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 19:12:13 +0300 UTC (10/7/2007, 11:12 AM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: Sorry folks but what is the sence of all this, creating an account on a SPAMMER Provider and email adress as thebat.net? I am missing something here? M Who is the SPAMMER Provider you are speaking about? Currently, thebat.net is listed in SARS So any email server using Spanassassin and SARE will show thebat.net as having a spam score.. see below. 2.2 SARE_STOCK_MSG_ID2 Msg ID 'thebat.net' In additon, CIFnet has the SPF in DNS listed for thebat.net (which has the policy only, not the full listing for SPF,) to v=spf1 mx -all so SPF totally Fails ! This means that any email server who rejects on a hard fail of SPF, (many do), will reject any email which has thebat.net as the sender, irrespective if it is sent from Gmail. thebat.net certainly fails SPF on my server. CIFnet needs to loosen their SPF policy for thebat.net in their DNS. You combine these two issues, and you have every email sent from thebat.net either being rejected or deep in a spam folder to start with. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access Denied at www.ritlabs.com
Hi Bob, On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:04:03 -0600 UTC (10/7/2007, 12:04 PM -0500 UTC my time), Bob Riley wrote: You combine these two issues, and you have every email sent from thebat.net either being rejected or deep in a spam folder to start with. B I sent a mail from my new thebat.net account to my regular gmail account, and B it ended up in the spam folder at gmail. I declared it not spam, B but I don't know if another such mail will end up there again. what does that say about Gmail. They don't even recognize/accept email coming from their own servers :) It probably will not show up as spam again, since you allowed it. Overall, there will be problems of having thebat.net email being accepted on a lot of email servers because of the issues I mentioned previously, that of having a SARES listing and setting a hard fail in its SPF policy. When sending from Gmail, they put [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the envelope sender, not a Gmail.com envelope sender. My question is what is the purpose of having a thebat.net Gmail account? Is the beta list being moved over there? -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using my thebat.net account
Hi Bob, On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:29:35 -0600 UTC (10/7/2007, 12:29 PM -0500 UTC my time), Bob Riley wrote: B How did thebat.net get to be rated as a potential spam source? B Does anyone know? 2.2 SARE_STOCK_MSG_ID2 Msg ID 'thebat.net' -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Using my thebat.net account
Hi Bob, On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 11:37:30 -0600 UTC (10/7/2007, 12:37 PM -0500 UTC my time), Bob Riley wrote: 2.2 SARE_STOCK_MSG_ID2 Msg ID 'thebat.net' B So SARE (whatever/whoever that is) rates thebat.net as SPAM but on B what basis? spamassassin rules emporium (SARE) http://www.rulesemporium.com/ B Was there an earlier incarnation of thebat.net that was B abused by someone? yes. Probably a joe-job for a long period of time. It seems from the above rule, it was a stock spam. B How can the SARE rating be appealed? by the domain owner. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Access Denied at www.ritlabs.com
Hi Maxim, On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 21:28:23 +0300 UTC (10/7/2007, 1:28 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: Overall, there will be problems of having thebat.net email being accepted on a lot of email servers because of the issues I mentioned previously, that of having a SARES listing and setting a hard fail in its SPF policy. When sending from Gmail, they put [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the envelope sender, not a Gmail.com envelope sender. M We will try go get removed from SARS and will configure the SPF. Good deal.. here is the easy way for SPF.. It will set up both TXT files needed for DNS, for you. http://old.openspf.org/wizard.html?mydomain=thebat.net and when you hit the continue button on that page. http://old.openspf.org/wizard.html?mydomain=thebat.netmx=yesptr=noa_colon=regular+hostnamesmx_colon=domain+namesip4_colon=IP+addressesinclude=example.comall=yesrecord_so_far=%22v%3Dspf1+mx+%7Eall%22use_built_from_args=1 Regarding the SARES listing... it should not be too difficult. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.24 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 07:51:38AM +0300 or thereabouts, vitalie vrabie wrote: Gary wrote: decisions if I want to accept a cert or not. Jumping through hoops to get to an IMAP server, after you used Stunnel a few 1000 times, is just a pain - unnecessary I might add. It is just easier to use another client. after all, will you trust servers with expired certificates (read: unmaintained ones)? sure, if the admin sends me the cert. Once again, you still have to authenticate to get into the server. once again, SSL does nothing more than encrypt the connection. Don't want it, don't use it, use port 143 without SSL period. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 09:32:43AM +0300 or thereabouts, Vilius ??umskas wrote: 2. Here is where your above statement is flawed. In order to log in your server, you have to AUTHENTICATE you must provide a password or in combo with CRAM-MD5 or some such, although it could be plain. Most importantly 3. IMAP certs do *nothing* except to encrypt the connection from the client to the server. It has nothing to do with authentication, nothing to do with compromising a server. We are not talking about e-commerce here, where you send your credit card over the wire. We are talking about encrypting a connection to/from an IMAP server. You still have to authenticate, if the server is worth anything, and not a public server, in which case just use port 143 without SSL. It is the authentication that is important. It is possible to reverse engineer private key from a public key, especially if you are using less than 1024bit private key encryption (and please remember that for example in USA it is _enforced_ by law). All you need is time. It is adviced to change your private/public key pairs from time to time. This way you can be sure that the key was not broken, stolen or compromised in any other way. That's why valid from and valid to field was introduced in X.509 in the first place. You can think of it like password expiration. so what, the above is all public knowledge, common stuff, basic info. It has nothing to do with IMAPS. You spend your time for years with 1000s of clustered computers to reverse engineer a private key.. For IMAP ! give me a break! We are talking about IMAP here, not e-commerce. You seem to forget that. You STILL have to auth into an IMAP(s) server, period. Don't want to use it, then don't, or use port 143, standard protocol, whereupon you would still need to authenticate. Your above paragraph is general info for the newbie, and not specific to IMAPS, and has nothing to do with the topic. In other words, certificate is a vehicle of cryptographic trust and users should not trust certificate if it is expired. Then don't use it for IMAPS, use port 143... very basic stuff... 4. Every other email client allows the user to choose whether he wishes to accept a cert, any cert for IMAP. I'm a grown up guy, and I can make my own decisions if I want to accept a cert or not. Jumping through hoops to get to an IMAP server, after you used Stunnel a few 1000 times, is just a pain - unnecessary I might add. It is just easier to use another client. And how do you know that first time that you are accepting certificate from a server if it is self-signed? read up on DNS. Have you ever built DNS servers professionally, or maintained at least one? Do you understand how it works. Have you ever built email/IMAP/POP servers professionally, or maintained one or 100s of them? You don't want to use self-signed for basic IMAPs, don't use it, use the standard port once again, you have to auth on to get into the server, It is the authentication, e.g. plain, CRAM-MD5, RADIUS server, etc that gets you into the server. Whether you want to use SSL or in the clear, it is your choice. YOU GET a CHOICE with other clients. You seem to forgot that every other IMAP email client, roughly 250 of them, allow you to accept the cert. *They give you the choice* to do so, for one time use only, or permanently, or not at all. This IS the point. I can easily view properties of such certificates create my own CA and create exactly the same certificate from the properties point of view. so what. Can you easily authenticate using someones password to get into the server? Do you finally get my point, instead of your generalized ramblings about a self-signed cert, or less importantly giving a probability of reverse engineering a cert? When a new account signs up on my servers, I send him a package which includes the cert for him to install. Their company can use it, or not,. it is *their* choice. You get choices, not decisions made for you by TB! saying you cannot use it if it is expired after its time. Have the admin send you the cert when you sign up for an account And not everyone has a direct connection to the server to accept it that first time. Are you talking about a company firewall, or proxy... Other than that, just exactly how would you not have a direct connection to your theoretical first time? (which you would not need if the admin sent a cert to begin with) Sorry, I'm too busy to spend any more time on this general, way off topic, nonsense. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vitalie, On Wed, 16 May 2007 20:59:13 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 12:59 PM -0500 UTC my time), vitalie vrabie wrote: You have really insulted the intelligence of the TB users. If some are stupid enough to click YES, that is *their* problem. Why on earth would you forbid *me* to accept an expired certificate, if I so choose? v treat it as an exam question: what is the difference between security v and encryption? A. I can log into any POP server that I am a registered user using the standard port 110. I must authenticate to get into the server to get my mail. B. I can log into any POPS server that I am a registered user using the standard SSL pop port 995 . I must authenticate to get into the server. C. I can log into any IMAP server that I am a registered user using the standard port 143. I must authenticate to get into the server. D. I can log into any IMAPS server that I am a registered user using the standard TLS/SSL port 993. I must authenticate to get into the server. In the case of B and D, what is different from A and C. I still have to authenticate to get into the server. Without this authentication, I cannot get in no matter what. You can stand on your head until doomsday, but I cannot get in. B and D only allows me to send and receive packets securely. Since I still can into the server by authentication using A and C, what difference does it make? Answer:NONE Perhaps this is why every other client gives you the choice of accepting certs. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Marek, On Wed, 16 May 2007 21:01:35 +0200 UTC (5/16/2007, 2:01 PM -0500 UTC my time), Marek Mikus wrote: B and D only allows me to send and receive packets securely. Since I still can into the server by authentication using A and C, what difference does it make? Answer:NONE M so do You understand what is difference between authentication and M security, or not? M Seems not. no, not at all. I just make my living at it. You? M BTW if B and D allows You secure packets *only*, why You need it? ding, ding, ding. We have a winner here.. the answer is You don't need it! and .. since you do not need it to get(POP) or see (IMAP) your mail on the server, which can only be done with authentication in the first place, the choice for accepting a cert should be left with the user! POPS and IMAPS are there as a courtesy or benefit, or feature for those that wish to use it, knowing that in the remote case of anyone sniffing the wire, they could not see the data packet streams. I have built many POP/IMAP servers where the customer just wants to utilize the standard port 110/143, and many who want both. Personally, I always suggest using asymmetric encryption for email if it is important or has sensitive personal or business info, e.g. GPG/PGP, even symmetric encryption is okay. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 22:33:53 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 2:33 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: You don't need it! and .. since you do not need it to get(POP) or see (IMAP) your mail on the server, which can only be done with authentication in the first place, the choice for accepting a cert should be left with the user! V I don't follow the logic here anymore. Since you don't need it, why V you are making this a problem of The Bat? It is a problem in TB! because TB! will not allow the user to accept a cert. It makes that decision for him/her, and that answer is always no, you cannot connect (if the cert is outdated).. It is a problem in that it is a matter of convenience to the user. Where the user can always connect otherwise using a standard connection on 143 (in most cases, depending if the IMAP server is set up that way, or standard POP on 110). To put it another way, if I can connect to a server via POP or IMAP, after I authenticate, why will it not let me connect securely, when I can connect normally. It should be my choice, since I can connect anyway. Does that not makes sense? Regards, -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 22:45:36 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 2:45 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: read up on DNS. Have you ever built DNS servers professionally, or maintained at least one? Do you understand how it works. Have you ever built email/IMAP/POP servers professionally, or maintained one or 100s of them? V This has nothing to do with DNS. It does based on your earlier generalized questions/remarks. V You don't need to redirect user data for this. Simply own a V server/router in between, create a certificate and make the server V transparent. Great, easily done, now how do you get my (or anyone's) password into your fake IMAP server, maybe sitting in the DMZ or in front of that, so I can auth into it? Again, the cert means nothing. we are not talking about e-commerce. I can generate certs all day long. Client must authenticate to get into the server. You don't need a cert to get your mail :) V And yes I built and installed 10s of mail systems on Linux, NetWare and V Windows and currently maintaining about 7 of them. Good, glad to hear it. I gave up NetWare years ago. I stick with *n.x commercially. V All of them have _valid_ CA authority signed not expired certificates. V I don't know, maybe I'm just stupid and my clients just wastes money V on them, but this is how the thing are done in the part of the world V where I'm living in. To some degree here too, but it is far from mandatory unless you are an ISP. Most often, self-issusing certs are done. Obviously if the site runs e-commerce or has a web presence, that cert would be used. V Maybe in yours invalid certificates are usuall and this is normal. It is not the norm, but it does happen, especially to small to medium businesses who run their own mail/IMAP server year after year. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 23:19:06 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 3:19 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: V You don't. You will authentificate to your real server. But as my V router/imap server will be transparent you will never know this. V For example on Linux it is done like this: V iptables -A PREROUTING -d myserveripfromvictimside -i eth0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 993 -j RETURN V iptables -A PREROUTING -s ! myserveripfromvictimside -i eth0 -p tcp -m V tcp --dport 993 -j DNAT --to-destination myserveripfromvictimside:993 Yes, this can easily be done using Netfilter. There are similar capabilities in Unix (FreeBSD) packet routing. However, it is hardly worth the effort :) Again this is a simple POP/IMAP server, not e-commerce. V That's one of the ideas behind SSL/TLS. If SSL packet header is V changed a long the way and doesn't represent certificate key on the remote V server, client will inform you. You can see it at hotspots where mail traffic V is usually sent through such servers. Of course... this is why, as I mentioned previously, that when using a self-signed cert for a company IMAP server, I issue those certs to the new users as part of their initial instructional package. They install it (most often in their Windows box), case closed :) -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 22:56:09 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 2:56 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: To put it another way, if I can connect to a server via POP or IMAP, after I authenticate, why will it not let me connect securely, when I can connect normally. It should be my choice, since I can connect anyway. Does that not makes sense? V Ahh, I see now. But this is actually the problem of the admin. No, IMO, it is the choice of the customer... I can only tell the customer his options. He has to make that decision. V Why do you want to allow users to connect without TLS when you have TLS V working? real world scenario. some users do not use an email client that has TLS technology. Some do not want to be bothered. V I'm always blocking plaintext connections from outside if there is V *valid* TLS mechanism in place. I usually do the same, but in the end, it is up to the client to decide. Example, most ISPs here in the States, do not all TLS/SSL use for all of their customers, either on SMTP or IMAP/POP amazing. V And if there is none, I just don't use it and don't ask myself why TB! V doesn't allow me to accept my broken server. actual case, 8 years ago, I built an SMTP /IMAP / POP / DNS servers for a business, about 15 people... no big deal... It is set up on 143 and 993... now their own self-issued cert was made for 5 years... it has expired. If they used TB! and wanted TLS/SSL on 993, they could not log in, all of a sudden as the cert expired. If they used any other email client, no problem. It just does not make sense, as they still can use 143, but some want the benefits of SSL, which they have been using all this time. They know the cert is good. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 23:08:18 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 3:08 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: V But it is very security sensitive decision. Let's say you are V competent to make it, let's say I'm, most of IT guys are too. agreed. V But what about my mom, your little sister, John the plummer Doe from V the floor below, a lady with the puddle in the lift :)? Sorry but they V are majority and Ritlabs (like any other company) just makes desicions on V majority users. ah, given your user base above, how many of these people would use IMAP to begin with. I have found that most IMAP users are business people, or professional people, educational/university people, or for a lack of a better term, higher end users, and not just ordinary folks who want to get their mail. In my thinking, most people just want to download their mail :) Or, get it off a web based IMAP server, e.g. Gmail, Yahoo, Hotmail, etc. As you know, Ritlabs started TB! as a terrific POP client. They were correct in determining their user base of POP based email. Some features available for IMAP, including not having the ability to accept a cert by one's own choosing, are available in all other clients, at the very least. IMO, it is not a security issue. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Maxim, On Thu, 17 May 2007 00:09:16 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 4:09 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M TLS assures confidentiality and integrity of the information. M Confidentiality means that nobody in transit (that has access to the M data channel) can read your messages while your are retrieving them via TLS. M Integrity in email means that nobody in transit can alter your messages, M i.e. modify the contents of the messages, inject false messages, remove M legitimate messages, etc. while your are retriving them via TLS. Yes I am aware of that. :) M So I do not agree that there is no difference between BD and AC. There is no difference with respect to the fact that I have to auth into the server either way. M If you are using TLS with expired or otherwise invalid certificates, this M means that there is no actually TLS and confidentiality and integrity is M no longer assuered, so the malicious person that has access to data M channel can read and/or modify the messages while you are retrieving M them. It is not assured on port 110 or 143 either :) The only assurance regarding integrity is to also use DKIM signing, but most importantly PGP/GPG or some asymmetric encryption for confidentiality. Again, it should be up to the user to decide to accept a cert that has expired (even after he has used it for five years) :) I give up ... LOL ... you are not going to change it :) -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Maxim, On Thu, 17 May 2007 00:13:07 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 4:13 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: It is a problem in that it is a matter of convenience to the user. Where the user can always connect otherwise using a standard connection on 143 (in most cases, depending if the IMAP server is set up that way, or standard POP on 110). M I don't understand why don't you connect with regular (non-TLS) IMAP if M the TLS IMAP has an invalid certificate? in my case, I have one remote server that only runs on 993, not 143. To put it another way, if I can connect to a server via POP or IMAP, after I authenticate, why will it not let me connect securely, when I can connect normally. It should be my choice, since I can connect anyway. Does that not makes sense? M If you have an invalid certificate, than you are not connecting M securely, even if you are using TLS. Belive or not, with an invalid M certificate, no confidentiality or integrity is assured. So just switch M to regular (non-TLS) IMAP and be happy! :-)) can't as above :) I have to use Stunnel to do this currently. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Thu, 17 May 2007 00:01:31 +0300 UTC (5/16/2007, 4:01 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: V You'll be suprised how many people send their banking passwords, V social numbers and credit card information through email :) hee, hee... no I would not :) also medical information which people send in the clear. V And nobody says that attacker will be interested in your inbox V exclusively. Usually they gather thousands of passwords. yes, very true, and in that case, that size of box, that many users, I would definitely use a CA cert also. V Ok time to sleep. Good night. Good night, now maybe I can get some work done too. :) -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 02:51:36PM -0400 or thereabouts, Vili wrote: Is there anybody using IMAP with TLS on the 993 port? I only use SSL with IMAP, port 993. There is this IMAP server: www.citymarket.hu With telnet, I see that the 993 port is open, Thunderbird, OE can connect to it with SSL. TB says: 2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - Initiating TLS handshake 2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - Certificate S/N: 0, algorithm: RSA (1024 bits), issued from 10 Apr 2004 to 10 Apr 2005, for 1 host(s): citymarket. 2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - Owner: University of Washington IMAP daemon, citymarket, citymarket, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - This certificate is self-issued. !2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - TLS handshake failure. Invalid server certificate (This certificate has expired). !2007.05.15, 14:50:09: IMAP - Could not connect to the server What should I do to be able to connect to the server? because TB! is the only client on the face of the planet which will not allow you to accept an expired cert, you have to install Stunnel and configure it manually, then open up that first, then use TB! for that server. You see the good people at Ritlabs will not allow you to trust yourself to make a judgment whether you are smart enough to accept certs that have expired on IMAP servers. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP with TLS
Hi Vilius, On Wed, 16 May 2007 00:47:05 +0300 UTC (5/15/2007, 4:47 PM -0500 UTC my time), Vilius Šumskas wrote: because TB! is the only client on the face of the planet which will not allow you to accept an expired cert, you have to install Stunnel and configure it manually, then open up that first, then use TB! for that server. You see the good people at Ritlabs will not allow you to trust yourself to make a judgment whether you are smart enough to accept certs that have expired on IMAP servers. V Actually this is very good decision. Many users just don't read what's V written on every popup. They press YES YES YES. so ? If they have an IMAP account, they should not have to press YES after the first go-around to accept the cert permanently. We are not talking about every popup. It is standard procedure when first using an IMAPS account, to ask one time, whether you wish to accept a cert, and if so, permanently, no big deal. Standard procedure if you use SSL and IMAP. V And why on earth people use a certificate if it is expired? (or self V signed)? I have been using one on a remote server, (along with my other customers) for years, after it expired. It originally had a life of 3 years. Why should I replace it? Does it not still encrypt the connection? V It can be very easily compromised and by accepting such certificate you V NEVER know if it comes from your server of from 3rd person in between. You have fallen under the misconception of the compromised server syndrome :) There is nothing to be compromised whether you use an expired cert or not. See below please for the real understanding. 1. Your mail client has to find the server using DNS published records which points to the IMAP server. Hardly room for any man-in-the- middle attacks, since it is extremely difficult to poison DNS servers, let alone to find the DNS server that you would be using. 2. Here is where your above statement is flawed. In order to log in your server, you have to AUTHENTICATE you must provide a password or in combo with CRAM-MD5 or some such, although it could be plain. Most importantly 3. IMAP certs do *nothing* except to encrypt the connection from the client to the server. It has nothing to do with authentication, nothing to do with compromising a server. We are not talking about e-commerce here, where you send your credit card over the wire. We are talking about encrypting a connection to/from an IMAP server. You still have to authenticate, if the server is worth anything, and not a public server, in which case just use port 143 without SSL. It is the authentication that is important. 4. Every other email client allows the user to choose whether he wishes to accept a cert, any cert for IMAP. I'm a grown up guy, and I can make my own decisions if I want to accept a cert or not. Jumping through hoops to get to an IMAP server, after you used Stunnel a few 1000 times, is just a pain - unnecessary I might add. It is just easier to use another client. -- Gary Current beta is 3.99.06 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP fixes
Hi Maxim, On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:15:23 +0300 UTC (4/12/2007, 12:15 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: I think part of the problem is that they are unable to duplicate a lot of these problems. Devilishly hard to fix that kind of problem. Even harder to know it you actually fixed it without confirmation. M Yes, that's right, thank you for understanding. Given that all programmers have this same general problem, why is it that the free, or open source programs of Thunderbird or Mulberry work perfectly with IMAP, and with any IMAP server? Yesterday, for example, I had the old bug of cannot open message again, when I clicked on a new message. I could not see the message body. This was after I had to delete the cache, as it would not update the counts or show correct message bodies with headers (another old bug). This was present in version 2, and in 3. There is so much work that the user has to do in order to make IMAP just to function half-way in TB! that it is not a pleasant experience to use it for IMAP. I still cannot log into a distant SSL IMAP server on port 993, with a certificate on that server, that has expired. Per your suggestion, I have to use Stunnel as another added step. Why? Why cannot the IMAP user be trusted to make the decision on whether they want to accept the cert? No other IMAP client works this way. Why do I have to jump through hoops to use IMAP or make it functional? taken from your other email . M If you tell about long-lasting bugs, for example connection center M hangs, it's not easy to fix without affecting other parts of program. We M will fix it in beta series of 4.0. Don't want to break anything in V3. You have been through 2 complete versions of TB! and still IMAP is not anywhere near complete. So, I am going to have to pay for version 4 in order to get IMAP where it should have been a couple of years ago, through _2_ full versions, and where others, who provide terrific IMAP clients, provide it for free... I don't think so. -- Gary Current beta is 3.98.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP fixes
Hi Gleason, On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:59:01 -0400 UTC (4/12/2007, 12:59 PM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: Given that all programmers have this same general problem, why is it that the free, or open source programs of Thunderbird or Mulberry work perfectly with IMAP, and with any IMAP server? G Mulberry is perhaps the best of the lot, but it does not work G perfectly. For instance Mulberry has the bad habit of locking up G Windows XP. The last time that happened, an important unanswered G email vanished from the server. This has never happened to me, ever, or anyone on the Mulberry lists that I have maintained for them previously. You are correct in that Mulberry follows the IMAP protocol far greater than other clients (more of the protocol features, and some that are not in the RFC's). G And Mulberry's editing new email features are really unacceptable. It is easy enough to use, just type, and has a much better spell checker. If I need advanced editing features, I use Vim or emacs (in windows or Unix) as my editor with Mulberry. G Thunderbird has lots of glitz and glamor and name recognition, but it G is several years behind the rest in features. The plug ins or add-ons are actually not behind in features, but ahead, e.g. full calendar and IMAP sync-ing on my mail servers, even push technology, also PGP use, like in TB!, etc. Even eliminating my above remarks, getting back to the crux, it's IMAP functionality is far superior, and faster, even with those people that keep 1000s of emails in one folder (not really recommended in IMAP). It just works, never had any problems. What one has to decide is if they are willing to give up some features in TB! for a client that handles IMAP well. Will I give up some feature, e.g. to use a Quick Template in order to have IMAP that works properly, without hassles, without jumping through hoops of having to delete caches, fiddle between settings over and over again, and with the ability to log into an IMAP server that has an expired cert ?? ... any day of the week. Yesterday, for example, I had the old bug of cannot open message again, when I clicked on a new message. G Yes, it happens on occasion, not nearly as often as in the past. I see, so this is acceptable to you ? Not nearly as often as in the past is not good enough for me regarding IMAP, not after waiting 2 full years, through 2 versions. Talking about your glitz and glamor, isn't that what Ritlabs has been working on, while putting IMAP on the back burner? You seem to forget that last year, when moving to v3, when similar complaints arose, there was an outcry from the IMAP users that progress was slow, incomplete, and why should they pay and upgrade to v3 when IMAP was introduced in v2. -- Gary Current beta is 3.98.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP fixes
Hi Maxim, On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:09:05 +0300 UTC (4/12/2007, 1:09 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: Yesterday, for example, I had the old bug of cannot open message again, when I clicked on a new message. I could not see the message body. This was after I had to delete the cache, as it would not update the counts or show correct message bodies with headers (another old bug). M Could you please arrange us the test account on your server and your M details how to reproduce this bug, and update the corresponding entry at M the bugtrackins server? Yes, I will be more than glad to do this for you. I will write to you privately to give you an IMAP account on my server. I will send you the details, password, etc. I will then give you the details to reproduce this bug. However, I cannot do this for another 2-3 hours, as I have to leave to attend an important meeting that I must go to. As soon as I return, I will give the information you ask for. Hopefully, you will still be awake, but if not you will have the information for tomorrow your time. Thank you, -- Gary Current beta is 3.98.11 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: IMAP - Multiple messages in Inbox
Hi Stuart, On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 15:52:35 -0600 UTC (2/15/2007, 3:52 PM -0500 UTC my time), Stuart Cuddy wrote: S I have some issues with multiple copies of messages showing up in my S IMAP Inbox. Often it is just the subject that shows up with no body. S To attempt getting rid of these extras I try Purge and compress and S refresh alternately and it eventually removes the extra entries. If S there are 3 duplicates it usually means selecting each of the above 3 S times. S BTW shutting down and re-launching will usually clear these extra S copies. S Anyone else experience these duplicates. Yes, I see this all the time (despite Peter sending 2 emails :) In my case it is just duplicate emails with full bodies. It used to be an old bug, then it cleared up, and now it has recurred again. Rebuilding the cache will also fix it, but why do we have to go through these hoops? -- Gary Current beta is 3.96.07 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi Gleason, On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:38:48 -0400 UTC (10/12/2006, 11:38 AM -0500 UTC my time), Gleason Pace wrote: G TB's Imap is looking very good these days. :yes: Not as long as it will not accept SSL certificates that I tell it too. TB! is totally unusable to me currently. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi David, On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:04:51 -0400 UTC (10/12/2006, 12:04 PM -0500 UTC my time), David Calvarese wrote: Not as long as it will not accept SSL certificates that I tell it too. TB! is totally unusable to me currently. D Really? I'm having no problems using TB! with IMAP and SSL. I reported this earlier, 3-4 weeks ago. I have a remote server that only accepts SSL connection... the SSL cert has just expired... The cert is in my root TB! chain, has been for years. TB! will not allow me in, even though I (or anyone) must authenticate. That IMAP server does not allow port 143, regular connection, just dedicated SSL IMAP on port 993. Since the cert has been good for two years, just recently expired, TB! has decided it will not allow the connection... Every other IMAP client on the planet allows me to connect except TB! I do not like it when an email client tells me what it will or will not accept in an SSL connection, not putting that decision in the user's hands. It seems to forget that I must authenticate anyway. Since I cannot connect to this IMAP server, I cannot use TB! The address book, trusted CA should not dictate whether to accept the connection just because the cert is out of date. That is my decision. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi David, On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:40:47 -0400 UTC (10/12/2006, 12:40 PM -0500 UTC my time), David Calvarese wrote: D Really? I'm having no problems using TB! with IMAP and SSL. I reported this earlier, 3-4 weeks ago. I have a remote server that only accepts SSL connection... the SSL cert has just expired... The cert is in my root TB! chain, has been for years. TB! will not allow me in, even though I (or anyone) must authenticate. That IMAP server does not allow port 143, regular connection, just dedicated SSL IMAP on port 993. Since the cert has been good for two years, just recently expired, TB! has decided it will not allow the connection... Every other IMAP client on the planet allows me to connect except TB! I do not like it when an email client tells me what it will or will not accept in an SSL connection, not putting that decision in the user's hands. It seems to forget that I must authenticate anyway. Since I cannot connect to this IMAP server, I cannot use TB! The address book, trusted CA should not dictate whether to accept the connection just because the cert is out of date. That is my decision. D That is certainly odd... Sounds like a bug to me. It is a bug (or RL's decision). RL has known about it for a long time, since starting IMAP into TB!, yet nothing has been done to date to correct it. Curtis has mentioned it long ago in this forum, several times, as have I, and a few others using IMAP. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi Alexander, On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:19:30 +0200 UTC (10/12/2006, 2:19 PM -0500 UTC my time), Alexander S. Kunz wrote: D That is certainly odd... Sounds like a bug to me. It is a bug (or RL's decision). RL has known about it for a long time, since starting IMAP into TB!, yet nothing has been done to date to correct it. Curtis has mentioned it long ago in this forum, several times, as have I, and a few others using IMAP. A And did you file a bug report on the bugtracker website? I personally did not, but I believe Curtis did months ago. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:43:05 +0300 UTC (10/12/2006, 6:43 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: Not as long as it will not accept SSL certificates that I tell it too. TB! is totally unusable to me currently. M Why don't you use stunnel? Should I send you the configuration file for M stunnel? Sure, I use stunnel in *n.x all the time, but never tried it in windows. thanks -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:48:57 +0300 UTC (10/12/2006, 6:48 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Do you know that The Bat! is the most secure e-mail client. If we will M allow unsafe actions there and there we will became as insecure as the M other e-mail clients. What unsafe actions? Accepting an expired SSL cert to a server that already requires CRAM-MD5 authentication? That's up to the user to decide, everyone does it with browsers all the time. LOL... Next thing will be that TB! will not start at all if the user is smoking a cigarette, another unsafe action. In TB!, we don't even have that choice to accept or not, it is taken out of our hands for our benefit and safety... Sounds like a good sales pitch to me :) However, I do not consider Pine (who was designed by Mark C., the inventor of the IMAP RFC, Mutt, or Mulberry, or several others insecure by any means. The IMAPS server already requires CRAM-MD5 over SSL v3 auth. Yet, they let me choose to permanently accept any cert... M Why don't you simply use regular connection instead of TLS with expired M certificate? Can't, the remote server is configured only for IMAP with SSL only (port 993), not 143 standard which is not even opened in the firewall. Wouldn't it be easier to just let the customer decide. This has nothing to do with unsafe actions, just some fine tuning of programming the Address book / trusted root CA to not block expired certs. We are not talking about a root cert for e-commerce doing credit card transactions here.. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: The Bat! 3.86.03 ALPHA
Hi Maxim, On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 03:20:24 +0300 UTC (10/12/2006, 7:20 PM -0500 UTC my time), Maxim Masiutin wrote: M Please download Stunnel from M http://www.stunnel.org/download/binaries.html , install it and create the M file stunnel.conf, place it to the same direcory where you installed M stunnel.exe: Many thanks for this... it is almost exactly the same as making a wrapper on the stunnel service in unix, example rsync using stunnel... good deal... I am a happy camper again, as I will be able to log in. Thank you Max. -- Gary Current ALPHA is 3.86.03 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
