Folder Properties

[Alan Cummings]

Under account properties, it gives me the option in the "Reply template"
if i want to use the "From name for Reply-To address". Is there any
way i can control this with a folder reply-to template, if so, how?

thanks

Alan.



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Re: Folder Properties - solved

[Alan Cummings]

Never mind, i figured it out. :)

Alan.


Alan Cummings wrote..

 Under account properties, it gives me the option in the "Reply template"
 if i want to use the "From name for Reply-To address". Is there any
 way i can control this with a folder reply-to template, if so, how?

 thanks

 Alan.



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Re: Folder Properties - solved

[Nick Andriash]

On October 17, 2000, at 11:38:46 PM, Alan Cummings Wrote:

 Never mind, i figured it out. :)

Please share your findings... :o)


Nick


N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.47B7 | PGP 7.0 | Win 98 SE ]
 Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
___

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Re: Folder Properties - solved

[Alan Cummings]

The problem was i was confusing myself about what the "Do not use from
name for reply-to address" actually did. I was thinking that it would
remove the from name from *every* replied message, instead of from the
messages that had a different reply-to address in it.

Alan.


Nick Andriash wrote..

 On October 17, 2000, at 11:38:46 PM, Alan Cummings Wrote:

 Never mind, i figured it out. :)

 Please share your findings... :o)


 Nick


 N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.47B7 | PGP 7.0 | Win 98 SE ]
  Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
 ___



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Re: Double messages

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Katsmeow,

Responding  to  your  article  on Wed, 18 Oct 2000 at 00:36:31 GMT -0500
(which was 18/10/2000 12:36 GMT +0700 my Local Time) :

K (No  public  reply  necessary  unless it is of general interest...but
K would  appreciate  assistance  in getting unsubbed. I did receive the
K good-bye message)

Farewell message not indicate you already completely Unsubcribe from the
list, till you got message as :

[EMAIL PROTECTED] has signed off the [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] mailing list.

this happent if you reply the confirmation message from the server.

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -


Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company: Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Voice  : (62) (21) 385-1600  
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL: http://www.dutaint.co.id


Using The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

Created : Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 14:48:59 GMT +0700

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Re: How to upgrade from 1.39 to 1.46d ?

[Graham]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:24:37 -0700
Januk Aggarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Januk Hello Thomas,
Januk 
Januk On  Wed, 18 Oct 2000  at  00:54:02 GMT +0800 (which was 9:54 AM
Januk where I live) witnesses say Thomas Fernandez typed:
Januk 
Januk  If this doesn't work, as you say, then I would suggest you upgrade
Januk  from 1.39 to 1.42 first, this will upgrade the message bases, and then
Januk  from 1.42 to 1.46d. No, I don't have a copy of 1.42, but maybe
Januk  somebody else?
Januk 
Januk It seems Dominique has things sorted out, but for anyone else
Januk upgrading, you can import using Tools - Import from MSB files.

or you can use Dawn, a freeware address book converting utility from
http://www.internettrash.com/users/zakharin

Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: To get my keys send email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

iQA/AwUBOe1geC7i2PqZ2xC9EQKnMgCgtW8HfqJN1v7wuPQDC/vgZii9IGwAoNle
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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Wolfgang Kynast]

Hi Timothy,

...
TC My mouse now acts strangely when the Bat is running in the background,
TC along with freezups when I try to delete messages in folders.

Did you install/upgrade a virus scanner lately? I had a similar
effect when I installed a new McAfee version some months ago.
Switching to DrWeb solved the problem ;-)

-- 
Regards,
Wolfgang

Co-moderator TBUDL / TBBETA discussion lists

Using The Bat! 1.45 under Windows 95 4.0 Build   B
in Stadtallendorf, Germany,
on a 166Mhz Cyrix, 128MB SDRAM, half SCSI system ;-)

http://www.wolfgang-kynast.de/

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Re: Message Size?

[Wolfgang Kynast]

Hi Martian,

MK I seem to be having a message
MK size limit problem.  I can send messages less then 1K size, but
MK not larger (somewhere betweeen 1K and 1.5K).  Any ideas why that
MK might be?  I have a registered copy (the $35 version).  Messages
MK larger than 1K seem to send the first part then stop sending data,
MK after a few moments (maybe a min or so), I get a message back from
MK the server saying there was an error, but it doesn't say what the
MK error was.

Interesting to hear. I have the same problem when using the
companies exchange server. What server do you use?

-- 
Regards,
Wolfgang

Co-moderator TBUDL / TBBETA discussion lists

Using The Bat! 1.45 under Windows 95 4.0 Build   B
in Stadtallendorf, Germany,
on a 166Mhz Cyrix, 128MB SDRAM, half SCSI system ;-)

http://www.wolfgang-kynast.de/

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Re[2]: [SOT]The Bat! and Exchange Server?

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Dieter,

On 15 October 2000 at 00:35:21 GMT +0200 Dieter Hummel
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about "The Bat! and Exchange Server?" and made
these points:

DH Consider  an  email  environment in a large bank or assurance e.g.
DH where  everything  relies  on  MS - do you /really/ think that you
DH will  ever  be  able to throw out Exchange for MDaemon's sake? (or
DH any other WIN based email-server). If they are not using nix based
DH mailsystems there's no way neglecting MS Exchange.

Yes you can. I have set up an email system for a large charity (over
2000 users in 20 different sites through out the UK) using a non M$
mail system on a windows platform. OK it was not MDaemon.

(Yes I have seen Marck reply)

- --
Regards,
 David

Using The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7 ^V^
PGP 6.5.8
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1
(Windows 2000 Server)
on an Intel P III 700 Laptop with 128M RAM

 
|  David Elliott  |  Software Engineer  |  PGP Key ID 0x650F4534 |
| To get my key: http://www.web-work.org.uk/certs/0x650F4534.txt |
| No taglines were harmed during the writing of this msg.|
| Laptoppers do it in the comfort and warmth of BED!!!   |

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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VHi5kXQ5Kzdzqqn1UjRJSzWK
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Re: Sending mail

[Ming-Li]

On Tuesday, October 17, 2000, 12:34:00 AM, net5zero wrote:

 I have one account that when I compose a new message and click on
 the send icon, it gets put in the Outbox instead.  [I have checked
 the setting; and it is set for immediate delivery.]

I assume you click on the "Send immediately" tool button on the far
left, right?

 Then when I go to the Outbox and click on the "Send queue mail"
 icon, it tells me it has nothing to send.  [I can see the message
 listed; and the content is displayed the the preview window!!]

Sorry for asking the obvious, does the message in the Outbox has the
"darft" icon on? I bet you have Autosave on, don't you? If the
answer to both questions are yes, then the case might be: you
composed the message, and cancelled it before sending it. Then you
start over again, and send it out this time. So the second message
was actually sent out as soon as you click on the Send tool button,
but the old draft (the cancelled on) was still in the Outbox.

How come? If you have Autosave on, the message would be saved in the
Outbox whenever TB autosaves, and when you cancel the editing, what
you actually gives up is the last part (the part after it was last
last autosave) only. What has been saved is saved, you'll have to go
the the Outbox and kill it yourself.

If you're not sure, go to the Sent folder and check if the message
you sent was there.

If that's not the case, then you'll need to provide more
information. Like, does this happen to all the messages you send, or
just one? Does it happen to all account, or just one?

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Graham]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:24:02 +0200
Wolfgang Kynast [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Wolfgang Hi Timothy,
Wolfgang 
Wolfgang ...
Wolfgang TC My mouse now acts strangely when the Bat is running in the background,
Wolfgang TC along with freezups when I try to delete messages in folders.
Wolfgang 
Wolfgang Did you install/upgrade a virus scanner lately? I had a similar
Wolfgang effect when I installed a new McAfee version some months ago.
Wolfgang Switching to DrWeb solved the problem ;-)

Yes, Wolfgang, so did I.  Switching to Pc-Cillin 2000 solved the problem
here, but has stopped the newsreader plug-in in Becky 2 working..

Oh well...

It doesn't worry me too much as I also use XNews.

Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.3 (MingW32)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iEYEARECAAYFAjntrgkACgkQtwKLKus4nE496gCfXdC0uHtE+fqUSfI7YH8xry0C
y7EAnifn7k8F+4sruPNhtOVGJ55SZfgi
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Address Book Search

[Jan Rifkinson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello BatListers,

 If  I  search  my  AB  on the parent folder [I have 4-5 group
 subfolders]  TB!  does  not  return  any  name  listed  in  a
 subgroup. This doesn't make much sense to me. What am I doing
 wrong  or is this just the way it is? If so, what's the logic
 behind this?

Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
PGP ID: 0x4C9CDF9D
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBOe28dJccVS5MnN+dEQIo7QCg6OLwFk9wasd/Z+jItnDXnoDWZqsAoJ+2
SXBgCv9AVb/E9wOhK8+a9LxN
=Tw1Q
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Rally Masters

[Michal Kozusznik]

Cze.
Mgby mi podesa replaye z Rally Masters?
A poza tym jakie uwagi jak jedzi aby jedzi tak szybko... :)

  

Best regards
-- 
*** Michal Kozusznik *** MaXyM/PicSaintLoup ***
***   music *** Taekwon-do  ***
***  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
***   http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/~mxm_crd   ***



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backup filters and templates

[David van Zuijlekom]

Hello TBUDL,

  Is there a way to backup your filters and templates?

--
Best regards,
 David   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



|  E-Mailed by The Bat! Version 1.45
|  The World's Best E-Mail Client!!!
|  Check it out at http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/index.html
|  under Windows 98 4.10  A 
|  on an PII-300




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Re: Rally Masters

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Michal,

On 18 October 2000 at 18:17:23 GMT +0200 (which was 17:17 where I
live) Michal Kozusznik wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Rally Masters":

MK Cze.
MK Mgby mi podesa replaye z Rally Masters?
MK A poza tym jakie uwagi jak jedzi aby jedzi tak szybko... :)

This is getting to be a *bad* habit. Please try to avoid folder level
templates like *the plague* unless you are prepared to take much more
care over cursor placement.

Please try to use Address Book templates, especially for mailing list
traffic. They really do work better.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Kids Stuff:
Many dead animals in the past changed to
fossils while others preferred to be oil.
 
 TB! v1.47 Beta/7 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Sorry

[Michal Kozusznik]

Hello
Sorry for previous post. I don't know how it happened.
I'veclick   on  mail-to link on www-page. Two e-mail addresses was
included by TB!

Best regards
-- 
*** Michal Kozusznik *** MaXyM/PicSaintLoup ***
***   music *** Taekwon-do  ***
***  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
***   http://mops.uci.agh.edu.pl/~mxm_crd   ***



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Re[2]: Message Size? Part 2

[MartianRover KF6KNC]

Hi Wolfgang  :)

Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 2:26:12 AM, you wrote:

See part 1

seams that for some reason the email server is timing out after
receiving the end of message command (the period on a line by
itself). I've tried sending that again after the first one, and
still nothing. I'm not sure what to do about it. I've never
encountered this before.  I've tried my old email program and I
get the same result.  So, it doesn't seem to be the Bat!.  I don't
know why all the servers would be the same though.

- MartianRover KF6KNC
__
Contact Info Visit http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover/contact.html
My homepage is http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover

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Re[2]: Message Size? Part 1

[MartianRover KF6KNC]

Hi Wolfgang  :)

[snip]

WK Interesting to hear. I have the same problem when using the
WK companies exchange server. What server do you use?

I'm using our ISP server at escape.com. I've tried it on several
email servers, and they all seem to be the same. I wrote a program
in VB to be a go between so I can see what is happening, and it

see part 2

- MartianRover KF6KNC
__
Contact Info Visit http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover/contact.html
My homepage is http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover



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Re: Sorry

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Michal,

On 18 October 2000 at 18:55:14 GMT +0200 (which was 17:55 where I
live) Michal Kozusznik wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Sorry":

MK Sorry for previous post. I don't know how it happened. I've
MK click   on  mail-to link on www-page. Two e-mail addresses was
MK included by TB!

It happened because when you clicked he mailto: the TB current folder
was that of TBUDL. Because you have defined a folder template which
adds a "TO" address, that is why you message was sent to both the
intended recipient *and* TBUDL.

Here's what you must do:

1) Cut and delete your folder template

2) Paste it in as an Address Book Template for the TBUDL address

3) Use:

   %TO=""%TO="""%OFROMNAME on TBUDL"" [EMAIL PROTECTED]"

   or similar as the address replacement macro.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 How do I set a laser printer to stun?
 
 TB! v1.47 Beta/7 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Karin Spaink]

On 17-10-2000 at 19:27, Rich kindly wrote:
 Timothy, on Tuesday, October 17, 2000, 11:13:38 AM, wrote:

Timothy It seems that the Bat is headed in the ways of Eudora and others in
Timothy that the developers continue to add more and more useless features
Timothy that does nothing more than make a program that was once fast and
Timothy sleek into a major memory hog etc etc.

 Far from it. Last time I used Eudora (late version 4) mem usage was
 15k in in task manager. TB uses 4k give or take. It's nowhere near the
 RESOURCE HOG Eudora is.

Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task
manager. It's getting dangerously close to the 15 Mb that
Eudora 4.3 used to demand.

When I started using TB, memory usage was indeed in the
regions of 4 Mb. I suspect that the number of archived
e-mail is affecting memory usage (current amount of
messages: almost 3000, collected within a month).

Timothy I am ready to trash the Bat alltogether or go back to using one of the
Timothy earlier releases.

 Too bad1.46 is very stable on my system, as were all versions. I
 have NEVER had a crash or any problems with the Bat.

One problem that I sometimes had was TB reporting "grid
index out of range" when I deleted a threaded message. And
then it wouldn't show that mailbox properly. The only
recourse was to close and restart TB.

Timothy This used to be the best program around, but now its gone the way of
Timothy Eudora and others.

 It still is the best IMHO. It nowhere near compares to Eudora.

It doesn't. I migrated from Eudora to TB a month ago and I
wouldn't advise anybody to start using Eudora 5.0.


- K -

-- 

When I turned thirty, I broke off diplomatic relations with 
the Pepsi generation. Any hip young people want to 
communicate with me, they have to go through the Swiss. 
  - Tom Robbins: Skinny Legs and All

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Re[2]: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[MartianRover KF6KNC]

Hi Karin  :)

Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 10:40:05 AM, you wrote:

[snip]

KS Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task

Its using about 8.1MB on mine.  I like the Bat!, its fast and
stable.  I still think it uses to much memory, but its not bad for
a windows program (I'm used to using a VERY efficient machine).

I need a good calender program, I don't suppose they make one too?
Anyone have any recommendations?

- MartianRover KF6KNC
__
Contact Info Visit http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover/contact.html
My homepage is http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover


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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Rich]

Hey, Karin,

Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 1:40:05 PM, you wrote:



Karin Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task
Karin manager. It's getting dangerously close to the 15 Mb that
Karin Eudora 4.3 used to demand.

Interesting...I have 2561 messages as I write this and the bat is
using 4940K. And thebat has not been shut down for 5 days now.

Karin When I started using TB, memory usage was indeed in the
Karin regions of 4 Mb. I suspect that the number of archived
Karin e-mail is affecting memory usage (current amount of
Karin messages: almost 3000, collected within a month).



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Re[2]: Odd problem just recent

[Jason Ellis]

Hello Britta,

Thanks for the info, but I can't see that that's it. For one thing, I
am running across a network, not via dial-up. Though I do have TB set
to download mail automatically, I do not have the specific network
settings option that you mentioned enabled.

But I agree - it seems to happen after there's been a connection
glitch (when our mail server hangs or the network drops packets for a
few minutes when TB is trying to check mail), so your assumption it
has something to do with that is a good one - but in my case since I
don't even have a modem in this box (nor is Dial-Up Networking
installed at all) I don't think that that specifically is what's
causing the problem.

Anyone else have any idea?

Thanks,

Jason

 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:43:54 -0400
 From: Jason Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I have a problem that has only just recently begun to happen. I'm
 running TB v1.41 (I haven't upgraded simply because I've found that
 upgrading software usually causes more headaches than it solves).

 I've never had a problem upgrading TB! - just install the new version
 over the old. For ultimate safety, I would always recommend backing up
 your "Mail" folder first.
 Somewhere between 1.41 and 1.46 I seem to remember TB changed the file
 format (?) for its messages. Everything was converted without a hitch.


 But, anyway, I have this problem that only began a week or so ago, and
 it's driving me nuts. About 50% of the time when I try to close TB, it
 refuses to close. I get the annoying "bink" sound when I click on the
 X to close the software. It's the same result I get when I try to
 close TB when it's in the process of checking mail, except in these
 cases it *isn't* checking any mail.

 I have/had the same thing happen, and will take an uneducated guess
 here: maybe you're running into the rogue Dial-up Connection blip.
 That's what happens with me, anyway.
 Under your Account Options: do you have Mailbox Checking - Periodical
 Checking enabled for a specific period? I have (check every 5 mins.).
 Under your Account Network, do you have Use Account-specific Network
 Settings enabled? If yes, do you have "No automatic dial for
 periodical checking" and "Use an existing dialup connection" enabled?
 Those were my settings, and I figured that for some reason TB! seemed
 to disregard the "No automatic dial for periodical checking" under
 certain circumstances.
 I have now completely unchecked the Account-specific Network Settings
 on the Network tab, and that - so far - seems to have cured the
 problem.

 I also went to the TBUDL list archive and did a search for "DUN" and
 "dial-up connection" and found quite a lot of helpful messages there
 regarding the various settings - if you need to dig into it further.

 As I said, this happens about 50% of the time, and only in the last
 week or 10 days.

 same here - it appears at odd times ... comes and goes in phases; I
 have never been able to pin down exactly *when* and under what
 conditions it suddenly springs to life. I seems to be when I've had a
 hiccup, like being disconnected but continuing to use TB! (offline
 now) and it seems to think it now ought to check for the connection
 and prompt me to dial up again.

 Anyway - it's just a shot in the dark, but maybe this is what is
 happening in your case?


   Cheers,
 
  
 
Wednesday, 18 October 2000  10:01
  ~~
   Britta [EMAIL PROTECTED]   The Bat! 1.46d
   ~~




-- 
Jason Ellis, CEO
Hosting Solutions, Inc.
www.windowswebhost.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Karin Spaink]

On 18-10-2000 at 20:52, Rich kindly wrote:
 Karin, on Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 1:40:05 PM, wrote:

Karin Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task
Karin manager. It's getting dangerously close to the 15 Mb that
Karin Eudora 4.3 used to demand.

 Interesting...I have 2561 messages as I write this and the bat is
 using 4940K. And thebat has not been shut down for 5 days now.

Meanwhile I had to restart my computer, and now TB is down
to 8660 kb.

Althouigh that's much more then you report, it's also less
than task manager reported after having been up for a day. I
do suspect some memory leakage -- I'll keep notes.


- K -

-- 

As you go on living with someone, you slowly lose the 
power to make them happy, while your capacity to hurt 
them remains undiminished. 
  - Julian Barnes: Talking it Over

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Re: Rally Masters

[Britta]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote on  19/10/2000 06:42 :

 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:39:44 +0100
 From: "Marck D. Pearlstone" [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 This is getting to be a *bad* habit. Please try to avoid folder level
 templates like *the plague* unless you are prepared to take much more
 care over cursor placement.

 Please try to use Address Book templates, especially for mailing list
 traffic. They really do work better.


umm ... I have to confess I've been using folder templates happily for
some time. I've obviously missed previous discussions you have had
about this ... would you mind just briefly re-explaining why they're a
bad idea?
I cannot recall ever having had a problem due to folder templates
(maybe because mine use only very simple macros) - I've never had
duplicate messages go out because of those templates.

Thanks,
  
 
   Thursday, 19 October 2000  09:31
 ~~
  Britta [EMAIL PROTECTED]   The Bat! 1.46d
  ~~



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Re: using %QUOTESTYLE

[Nick Danger]

In Reference to "using %QUOTESTYLE" From Jan Rifkinson: "

J So I tried this by adding %QUOTESTYLE="F" as in "first name" to see
J what would happen  *nothing* happened, i.e. nothing even got
J quoted. What am I doing wrong?

Did you remember to include the %QUOTES telling TB! where to place it?

-- 
ò¸ó Nick [MUA: TB! 1.47 Beta/7]
 Danger  [OS: Win98 4.10 1998]



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Re[2]: using %QUOTESTYLE

[Jan Rifkinson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Nick,

  In a post time stamped 15:50:44 -0500 re: using %QUOTESTYLE
  you wrote:

ND Did you remember to include the %QUOTES telling TB! where to place it?

  Sorry, what do you mean by this?

Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
PGP ID: 0x4C9CDF9D
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:52:33 -0400, Rich wrote:

[snip]
Karin Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task
Karin manager. It's getting dangerously close to the 15 Mb that
Karin Eudora 4.3 used to demand.

R Interesting...I have 2561 messages as I write this and the bat is
R using 4940K. And thebat has not been shut down for 5 days now.

Very interesting. How much RAM does your system pack?

For me TB! is usually hovering between 9 and 12MB of RAM, but I have a
lot of RAM ... 256MB. TB!'s RAM usage tends to be somewhat dynamic.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Never trust a woman who tells her real age. "

Using TB! v1.47 Beta/7 (S/N CCA4F9B8) «» Win2k Pro SP1

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Re: Rally Masters

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Britta,

On 18 October 2000 at 09:35:48 GMT +1300 (which was 21:35 where I
live) Britta wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Rally Masters":

 This is getting to be a *bad* habit. Please try to avoid folder
 level templates like *the plague* unless you are prepared to take
 much more care over cursor placement.

 Please try to use Address Book templates, especially for mailing
 list traffic. They really do work better.


B umm ... I have to confess I've been using folder templates happily
B for some time. I've obviously missed previous discussions you have
B had about this ... would you mind just briefly re-explaining why
B they're a bad idea?

If you only ever reply to messages in their folders and never through
the ticker or search virtual folders then there's no problem. You must
be able to guarantee that you will check all addresses on new
messages, whether generated from the AB favourites list, from a
generic new message command or from an external mailto click, any of
which can be randomly affected by whichever folder currently has the
focus in the TB main window.

In the long run, AB templates are *much* safer by an order of
magnitude.

B I cannot recall ever having had a problem due to folder templates
B (maybe because mine use only very simple macros) - I've never had
B duplicate messages go out because of those templates.

No, but messages generated from a mailto can be easily given a wrong
template at least and, at worst, wrongly addressed, as happened with
the message at the route of this thread.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Kids Stuff:
There is a tremendous weight pushing down on
the center of the Earth because of so much population
stomping around up there these days.
 
 TB! v1.47 Beta/7 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

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Re: using %QUOTESTYLE

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:36:16 -0400, Jan Rifkinson wrote:

JR Since quotestyle seems to be set @ the account level via menu, I'm
JR assuming I can use the %QUOTESTYLE="expression" to override for
JR particular folders. So I tried this by adding %QUOTESTYLE="F" as in
JR "first name" to see what would happen  *nothing* happened, i.e.
JR nothing even got quoted. What am I doing wrong?

The %quotestyle macro must precede the %quotes macro in your template.
If not, it will not work. When ready to place the quotes macro, do it
like this:

%Quotestyle="F"%Quotes

or

%Quotestyle="F"
%Quotes

NOT

%Quotes
%Quotestyle="F"

HTH

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
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Re: Rally Masters

[A . Curtis Martin]

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Hash: SHA1

  On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:35:48 +1300, Britta wrote:


B umm ... I have to confess I've been using folder templates happily for
B some time. I've obviously missed previous discussions you have had
B about this ... would you mind just briefly re-explaining why they're a
B bad idea?

B I cannot recall ever having had a problem due to folder templates
B (maybe because mine use only very simple macros) - I've never had
B duplicate messages go out because of those templates.

If you don't use the %To macro in your folder templates you don't have
to worry about anything.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
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TB Memory usage(was: Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers)

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Karin,

On  Wed, 18 Oct 2000  at  22:10:29 GMT +0200 (which was 1:10 PM
where I live) witnesses say Karin Spaink typed:

 Althouigh that's much more then you report, it's also less than task
 manager reported after having been up for a day. I do suspect some
 memory leakage -- I'll keep notes.

This was a big problem that was reported in ver. 1.44 or ver.1.45.  I
thought they had fixed it, but obviously not completely.  Just out of
curiosity, have you done a "Purge All Folders" recently?  If you
don't regularly Purge and Compress your folders, they tend to grow
very quickly in size.  This might have some effect in what you're
noticing.



-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

 Using The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: IMAP folders do not appear!

[Phillip Winn]

The problem is real, but it isn't a "bug" so much as a missing
feature. Outlook Express, to use one example, keeps two different
computers accessing the same IMAP account in perfect sync. That is,
not just "new" message headers are downloaded.

For example, let's say I create a new folder in OE while at work, and
move 17 messages into it, and send 12 emails (so that they appear in
Sent Items), and start a message but save it to finish later, etc.
Then I go home and start up OE there. After a bit of churning, my home
machine's OE folder reflect the new folder, all new messages (which
aren't "new" any more, since I've read them at work), the sent items,
and even the drafts.

You can accomplish sort of the same thing with TB! if you're willing
to spend a *lot* of time every day with the Dispatch Mail On Server
interface. I had to do that when I first converted to TB! at work, and
I don't use that particular IMAP account often, so I just make a note
to myself to use the DMOS option when I know I want certain messages
to appear at work now.

In my view, this is one place where OE has it right and TB! has it
wrong. What MS understood and TB! creators might be missing is that
IMAP isn't just a POP replacement as far as a protocol for
transferring mail, it is truly a remote-messaging system, so that all
information should be stored on the server, and it should all always
be available to all clients. This is the basic philosophy of IMAP
which isn't catered to very well by TB!'s interface or operation.

For example, when using IMAP, I shouldn't have to say Leave Mail On
Server. That is pretty much a given with IMAP. Only headers should be
downloaded by default, though that is changeable. In any case, the
message bodies and headers and folders on the server *always* override
the client. That's the philosophy of IMAP. The client isn't to be a
source of any information, though it can certainly cache information
for convenience.

Of course, I'm sure others disagree, but IMAP exists for a reason, and
I believe that it isn't well served by TB!

-- 
Phillip
-- 

Friday, October 13, 2000, 4:17:51 AM:

rgdn hi Mark,

 Are you using IMAP or POP3?  With IMAP there is need to select 'Leave
 messages on server' as IMAP keeps all messages on the server in their
 designated mail folders.

rgdn i'm using POP3 for mail accounts with various providers and IMAP (Intrastore 
Server by
rgdn Syntegra - formerly Control Data) at work.
rgdn if you do not specify 'leave on server' TB will delete them, believe me g
 
 The log file lacks such details.

rgdn what kind of detail do you want ?? IMAP protocol commands ?

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Rich]

Hey, A,

Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 5:52:43 PM, you wrote:



A Very interesting. How much RAM does your system pack?

256MB also..

A For me TB! is usually hovering between 9 and 12MB of RAM, but I have a
A lot of RAM ... 256MB. TB!'s RAM usage tends to be somewhat dynamic.

Seems that wayMine stays pretty stable, It's never been over 5mb
on my machine. Windows 2000 with SP1 with 256MB. I know when I had
Eudora on this machine in the early part of the year it was always in
the 15 to 18 meg range and higher. Never under 15.



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Re: Rally Masters

[Nick Andriash]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On October 18, 2000, at 2:20:08 PM, Marck D. Pearlstone Wrote:

 You must be able to guarantee that you will check all addresses on new
 messages, whether generated from the AB favourites list, from a generic
 new message command or from an external mailto click, any of which can
 be randomly affected by whichever folder currently has the focus in the
 TB main window.

Marck, I forget the specifics involved, but sometimes when you are
composing a reply, and a newly filtered message arrives to the folder
and/or thread from which you are replying, that the Subject of your reply
can change, or a whole new reply with the changed subject is generated,
unbeknownst to the User. That anomaly, together with the MailTo: problem,
is the basis of the argument for using AB Templates. I consider those to
be bugs in TB! rather than careless use of Folder Templates or cursor
placement. I think RITLabs should correct the bugs and not leave it to the
Users to be relegated to using AB Templates to get around them.

Folder level Templates are by far more convenient to use. With AB
Templates, you have to aim at a very very thin strip of screen real estate
next to the New Message button just to generate a new message. With Folder
Templates, you simply hit the larger button... one click and you're done!

 In the long run, AB templates are *much* safer by an order of
 magnitude.

Safer? With respect to circumventing the 'bugs' outlined above, perhaps.
However, TB!'s Address Book's finicky behaviour is well documented. Having
to now trust all my Message Templates to the whims of the AB causes me
even more concern. :o(


Nick


N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.47B7 | PGP 7.0 | Win 98 SE ]
 Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
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Re: More users support

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Michal,

On  Wed, 18 Oct 2000  at  14:34:29 GMT +0200 (which was 5:34 AM
where I live) witnesses say Michal Kozusznik typed:

 Do  TB!  supports  more then one user using identities or Windows user
 mechanism?

All of the above.

TB stores most settings in the Registry for exactly that purpose.  If
multiple Windows User Profiles are created, then TB will have a
registry entry in each of those User profiles.  By tweaking the
settings in there, you can have completely separate accounts.  This
method has the advantage that each user can be an administrator, and
is not susceptible to some of the problems when using groups.

Note: Only Administrators can add and remove accounts and do some
  other things.  The administrator can also limit the permissions
  for any user or group of users.

However, if you want a single Windows profile, and you don't mind
having only one person with administrator rights, then you might want
to explore TB's group options.  Go into Options - Network  Administration
There, under Privileges, you can make some accounts User level
accounts.  Under Groups, you can create collections of User level
accounts.  Now when you log into TB, TB will ask you for your Name and
Password.  The Name is just the Account name or the Group name.  If
the human types in the name of a group, only the accounts associated
with that group will be visible.  If the human types in a user level
account name, then only that account will be visible.  If the human
types in the name of an Administrator account, then all accounts will
be visible.

For more details on how all this works and some of the pitfalls of the
User/Group method, I refer you to my message:

 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:30:26 -0700
 Subject: Re: Multi-user environment (was: Re: Another question on filters and 
templates)
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

If you can't find that article (and the short thread that followed),
let me know and I can forward it to you off list.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

 Using The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Karin Spaink]

On 18-10-2000 at 23:52, A. Curtis Martin kindly wrote:

Karin Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task
Karin manager. It's getting dangerously close to the 15 Mb that
Karin Eudora 4.3 used to demand.

R Interesting...I have 2561 messages as I write this and the bat is
R using 4940K. And thebat has not been shut down for 5 days now.

 Very interesting. How much RAM does your system pack?

[I know that you addressed this question to ACM, but since
my system seems to be suffering from more memory usage /
leakage than others, I'll reply anyway.]

I use Win NT work station, SP 6a, 128 Mb ram.

 For me TB! is usually hovering between 9 and 12MB of RAM, but I have a
 lot of RAM ... 256MB. TB!'s RAM usage tends to be somewhat dynamic.

By now TB's memory usage is at 9736 kb - a ood 1 Mb more
than after I had restarded my computer, a few hours a ago.


- K -

-- 

The First Amendment presupposes that right conclusions are 
more likely to be gathered out of a multitude of tongues, 
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Learned Hand as cited in New York Times v. Sullivan



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Re[2]: using %QUOTESTYLE

[Jan Rifkinson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi BatListers.

  In a post time stamped 17:01:15  -0500 re: using %QUOTESTYLE
  A. Curtis Martin wrote:

ACM The %quotestyle macro must precede the %quotes macro in your template.
ACM If not, it will not work. When ready to place the quotes macro, do it
ACM like this:

ACM %Quotestyle="F"%Quotes

  Thanks  to  all  who  helped me with this. I was getting
  frustrated   just jumped over the pure logic of telling
  TB!  what  it needed to know next. I guess the fact that
  TB!  wasn't  showing me any quotestyle threw me but then
  how could TB! show me any quotestyle without any quotes?

  And being greedy, anybody have any thoughts about my
  "Address Book Search" post?

  Regards,

Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
PGP ID: 0x4C9CDF9D
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: using %QUOTESTYLE

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Jan,

On  Wed, 18 Oct 2000  at  19:50:02 GMT -0400 (which was 4:50 PM
where I live) witnesses say Jan Rifkinson typed:


   And being greedy, anybody have any thoughts about my
   "Address Book Search" post?

No, sorry.  I noticed that your posts are being duplicated.  I think
you have an errant %To macro in your reply template.  Your reply
template should have *no* %To macro, or

%To=""%To="""%OFromName on TBUDL"" %OFromAddr"


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

 Using The Bat! 1.47 Beta/7
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re[2]: using %QUOTESTYLE

[Jan Rifkinson]

Dear Januk,

  On  Wednesday,  October 18, 2000 re: "using %QUOTESTYLE"
  you wrote:

JA [...]  I  think  you  have  an  errant %To macro in your reply
JA template. Your reply template should have *no* %To macro [...]

  So right you are. Sorry.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Rally Masters

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Nick,

On 18 October 2000 at 15:51:28 GMT -0700 (which was 23:51 where I
live) Nick Andriash wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Rally Masters":

 You must be able to guarantee that you will check all addresses on
 new messages, whether generated from the AB favourites list, from a
 generic new message command or from an external mailto click, any
 of which can be randomly affected by whichever folder currently has
 the focus in the TB main window.

NA Marck, I forget the specifics involved, but sometimes when you are
NA composing a reply, and a newly filtered message arrives to the
NA folder and/or thread from which you are replying, that the Subject
NA of your reply can change, or a whole new reply with the changed
NA subject is generated, unbeknownst to the User.

That's not what happens. The new message has to arrive *before* you
reply. This bug is a complete sidetrack to the issue of template
location.

NA That anomaly, together with the MailTo: problem, is the basis of
NA the argument for using AB Templates.

It isn't. They are very separate issues. The former has no bearing and
is not influenced by template location. It is a matter of how many
messages are highlighted in the message list at the moment you hit the
reply button. The latter is only about template location and is not
connected to the multiple / wrong reply bug.

NA I consider those to be bugs in TB! rather than careless use of
NA Folder Templates or cursor placement.

One is a bug (the former) and one is a misuse issue (the latter).

NA I think RITLabs should correct the bugs and not leave it to the
NA Users to be relegated to using AB Templates to get around them.

Yes, RIT should correct the bugs, but in the case of replies which end
up with the wrong address because of the use of Folder templates,
there is nothing to correct. TB is only doing what it has been told to
do in these cases. If the user has a message open in a folder with a
folder template which has a %TO macro in it. When the user clicks a
mailto:, TB does as it's been told to do when creating a message from
the current folder and re-addresses it. The problem is in the use, not
the programming.

NA Folder level Templates are by far more convenient to use. With AB
NA Templates, you have to aim at a very very thin strip of screen
NA real estate next to the New Message button just to generate a new
NA message. With Folder Templates, you simply hit the larger
NA button... one click and you're done!

... as long as you're in the right folder to start with. I used to use
folder templates and, for me, it was multiple clicks to open the
folder tree and navigate to the right folder first *then* click "New".

 In the long run, AB templates are *much* safer by an order of
 magnitude.

NA Safer? With respect to circumventing the 'bugs' outlined above,
NA perhaps. However, TB!'s Address Book's finicky behaviour is well
NA documented.

I don't agree. I think TB has some quirks in it which have recently
come to light regarding completely blank folder templates having a
strange effect on AB templates.

NA Having to now trust all my Message Templates to the whims of the
NA AB causes me even more concern. :o(

It's never let me down.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Headline - Stolen Painting Found by Tree
 
 TB! v1.47 Beta/7 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

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Common component?

[Don Zeigler]

I've been testing The Bat! off an on for several days and am very
impressed with the software. However, I'm a user who likes for mail for
all accounts to share a common "destination" -- it all arrives in one
inbox for further sorting as I need it. Likewise with filters - I find it
cumbersome to have to set up filters for multiple accounts. Many users
prefer to have multiple account's mail separated completely, but it would
be great if a future version of The Bat! allowed the user to have the
option to use the same set of filters on all accounts, etc.

-- Don Zeigler, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 10/18/2000

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Re: Rally Masters

[Nick Andriash]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On October 18, 2000, at 5:42:44 PM, Marck D. Pearlstone Wrote:

 That's not what happens. The new message has to arrive *before* you
 reply. This bug is a complete sidetrack to the issue of template
 location.

Ok, my apologies... I wasn't sure about that. So, having moved all my
Templates over to the AB level, it looks like I am still vulnerable to
that bug. :o(

 When the user clicks a mailto:, TB does as it's been told to do when
 creating a message from the current folder and re-addresses it. The
 problem is in the use, not the programming.

Well, there is where I get confused, because in that instance, TB! was
instructed to generate a new message, addressed according to the specified
address in the MailTo, and should have nothing to do with the Folder it
resides in. When I am in a web page and click on a MailTo, TB! generates a
new, properly addressed message to that specified in the MailTo regardless
of what Folder I have open. What is the difference?

If it's a matter of 'focus', is there no way to remedy the problem so one
can use Folder Templates without fear or worry?

 I don't agree. I think TB has some quirks in it which have recently
 come to light regarding completely blank folder templates having a
 strange effect on AB templates.

I remember reading where Allie experimented by associating his AB with an
LDAP Server, and ended up completely losing his AB if I'm not mistaken.
His saving grace was that he was sharp enough to have a current backup.
Also, I just went through a series of tests with the help of Ming-Li to
realize that I had a 'faulty' AB entry whereby the AB Templates, for
whatever reason, had no effect. Deleting the entry and re-creating it
solved the problem, but who would have ever guessed that you could have a
faulty AB entry.

 It's never let me down.

I'm hoping to share in your good fortune. :o)


Nick


N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.47B7 | PGP 7.0 | Win 98 SE ]
 Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
___

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[tracer]

Hello Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen,
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:25:44 -0500 GMT your local time,
which was Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 1:25:44 AM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen wrote:

(snipped a bit...)
 I'm running Win98, not SE, upgraded from Win95, and I know enough
 about Windows programming (i.e., not much) only to be dangerous to
 myself and confusing to people who actually do know Windows
 programming.

upgrading ie not clean install of 98 is not the most stable 98
configuration.
Ie donot be surprised if you have a few holes in a seemingly perfect
working system...


Best regards,
 
tracer


-- 

Using theBAT 1.47 Beta/5 with Windows NT
mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I am using FireTalk: 321338
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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[tracer]

Hello MartianRover KF6KNC,
On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:00:19 -0700 GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, October 19, 2000, 2:00:19 AM (GMT+0700) my local time,
MartianRover KF6KNC wrote:



 Hi Karin  :)

 Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 10:40:05 AM, you wrote:

 [snip]

KS Hmm. TheBat is currently taking 11644 kb according to task

 Its using about 8.1MB on mine.  I like the Bat!, its fast and
 stable.  I still think it uses to much memory, but its not bad for
 a windows program (I'm used to using a VERY efficient machine).

 I need a good calender program, I don't suppose they make one too?
 Anyone have any recommendations?

I use at present 162780 k memory, 2-15% cpu, 7809 handles, 402 threads,
49 processes.
The bat uses about 11mb.

I have enough power and memory (ie real ram) not to have to worry about
this BUT even with less freezing is possible.
I have noticed it with other programs (ie customer systems) as well
and one of the most common reasons is some antivirus program checking
all files...
One system due to that freezes office when printing a document ...

 - MartianRover KF6KNC
 __
 Contact Info Visit http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover/contact.html
 My homepage is http://www.Bigfoot.com/~MartianRover




Best regards,
 
tracer


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I lost my mail ticker!

[BillG]

Hello.

My MailTicker has mysteriously disappeared.  I did have it configured to
"show automatically".  Now, it will not show itself at all.  I have
several folders that are configured to start he ticker.  I have even
told it to "show always" - no good.  Has anyone seen my mailticker??

I checked the archives - nothing there.

Please help me find my lost mail ticker.

Thanks,
Bill Grant

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:59:15 -0400, Rich wrote:

A Very interesting. How much RAM does your system pack?

R 256MB also..

Wow! That was unexpected. g

A For me TB! is usually hovering between 9 and 12MB of RAM, but I have
A a lot of RAM ... 256MB. TB!'s RAM usage tends to be somewhat
A dynamic.

R Seems that wayMine stays pretty stable, It's never been over 5mb
R on my machine. Windows 2000 with SP1 with 256MB.

Wow! That's even more unexpected.  A couple more things then. How many
accounts do you have and approximately how many messages do you have in
them? Do you store your attachments as a part of your messages or
separately in the attachments folder?

I personally store attachments in message bodies and I have three
accounts with a total of 40K messages. A couple of my folders contain
over 6,000 messages.

I'm quite convinced that the disparity in RAM usage has to do with
having to do with the accounts/folder structure, and message bases.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms "

Using TB! v1.47 Beta/7 (S/N CCA4F9B8) «» Win2k Pro SP1

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Re: Im Disgusted in the Bat and the Developers

[Rich]

Hey, A,

Wednesday, October 18, 2000, 11:19:07 PM, you wrote:


A Wow! That's even more unexpected.  A couple more things then. How many
A accounts do you have and approximately how many messages do you have in
A them? Do you store your attachments as a part of your messages or
A separately in the attachments folder?

4 different accounts only a total of 2561 messages across these
accounts. Attachments are stored in messages.

A I personally store attachments in message bodies and I have three
A accounts with a total of 40K messages. A couple of my folders contain
A over 6,000 messages.

I don't get anywhere near that many messagesg. Only the really
important stuff get saved, so my message bases grow slowly.

A I'm quite convinced that the disparity in RAM usage has to do with
A having to do with the accounts/folder structure, and message bases.

Was thinking the same thing...



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Re: Rally Masters

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:05:42 -0700, Nick Andriash wrote:

NA Ok, my apologies... I wasn't sure about that. So, having moved all
NA my Templates over to the AB level, it looks like I am still
NA vulnerable to that bug. :o(

The bug that you're referring to here, goes like this:

If you are in threaded mode while browsing a folder, and new messages
arrive in the folder, more than one message will be highlighted. Also,
sometimes, the body of the message that you're currently viewing,
disappears from the message view area and you have to reselect the
message to display the body (this latter part may save you from the rest
of the buggy behaviour :-)) Now, if you wish to reply to the message
that you're currently viewing, and more than one messages are selected,
two messages are generated, addressed to two different recipients and
yet the quoted text is the same. All too often the message at the top is
the one for the unintended recipient. Since the contents of the message
look fine, you don't realize that the message is addressed to the wrong
person. Afterall, do you always check the address in your replies, when
the quotation is correct? You go ahead, compose your reply and hit send,
only to see another message in front of you!! It's only then that you
realize what happened and by then it's too late.

AFAICK, this has nothing to do with templates and how they work.

 When the user clicks a mailto:, TB does as it's been told to do when
 creating a message from the current folder and re-addresses it. The
 problem is in the use, not the programming.

NA Well, there is where I get confused, because in that instance, TB! was
NA instructed to generate a new message, addressed according to the specified
NA address in the MailTo, and should have nothing to do with the Folder it
NA resides in. When I am in a web page and click on a MailTo, TB! generates a
NA new, properly addressed message to that specified in the MailTo regardless
NA of what Folder I have open. What is the difference?

The difference is that you aren't dealing with a mailto link within a
message within TB!. The difference is that the mailto link invoked
within TB! is within a message which resides in a folder. Any message
generated while browsing this folder should use the templates as defined
by the user.

If you use the %To macro in the folder templates, you're telling TB! to
*always* include the address/es defined by the macro in the To: field of
new messages from that folder. If suppressing this behaviour in
particular situations is hard coded into TB!, the awful business of
trying to assume what the user wants comes into play. If a mailto link
is invoked externally, then it's quite obvious that the user wants the
message addressed only to the mailto address. This is not necessarily so
when browsing a folder. I may define a %To address in the new message
template for my foo folder because I *do* wish for all messages
generated from this folder to go to a particular address, even messages
invoked from a mailto link in one of the messages. It could be a folder
for business related mail for instance, where a particular business
associates need a copy of all messages.

IOW's, I agree with Marck that it's not a bug but only TB! doing as the
user instructs.

NA If it's a matter of 'focus', is there no way to remedy the problem
NA so one can use Folder Templates without fear or worry?

The way to remedy the problem is there, ie, address book templates. :-)
This is exactly why I use them. I can use templates appropriately
without fear or worry about which folder is in focus and without fear or
worry of the message being inappropriately addressed. My *only* concern
so far, is the less screen real estate to work with when pressing the
little arrow beside the new message button. g

The way folder templates are implemented is just fine to me. It's just
that address book templates provide a better solution for me. I have
nothing against folder templates, but if the user wishes to use them,
they have to understand the logical constraints and limitations
involved, then work within them.

Using the %TO macro at the folder level to conveniently address new
messages, has its drawback as I described above. I realized the logical
reasoning behind it when I got bitten by it very early in my TB! usage.
I immediately changed to creating new message addressing through the
favourites menu, and then much later, migrated to using address book
templates exclusively.

NA I remember reading where Allie experimented by associating his AB
NA with an LDAP Server, and ended up completely losing his AB if I'm
NA not mistaken.

But again, this has nothing to do with using address book templates. If
I had lost only addresses, it would have still been traumatic because a
lot of address book entries were inadvertently deleted. I lost the
addresses because of poor documentation and having to resort to
experimentation in order to 

Re: Rally Masters

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:51:28 -0700, Nick Andriash wrote:

NA Folder level Templates are by far more convenient to use.

It really depends on your situation and how you wish to manage your
mail. When I was using folder templates, I had to use two folders to
manage TBUDL and TBBETA messages. With address book templates and colour
coding, I can now manage them from a single folder which I much prefer.

NA With AB Templates, you have to aim at a very very thin strip of
NA screen real estate next to the New Message button just to generate a
NA new message. With Folder Templates, you simply hit the larger
NA button... one click and you're done!

I think I see the problem now. You're trying address book templates or
assessing them for their convenience with respect to this singular
issue.  If this is the only reason why you're considering using address
book templates, then I understand how you feel. Simply creating an
address book entry for TBUDL and making it a favourite will do the same
for you. You don't have to create address book templates to get a
favourites menu selection to create new messages. This is not what
address book templates are for.

Suppose you wish to use a particular set of templates only for a
particular recipient, yet you don't wish to create a folder exclusively
for the particular recipient? Well, defining a set of address book
templates for the recipient is your answer. If you don't have this
desire and have created specific folders with their templates in all
these instances, then there's no need to use address book templates.

 In the long run, AB templates are *much* safer by an order of
 magnitude.

NA Safer?

Oh absolutely. :-) Once you have them properly setup, they're indeed
safer and function without my having to think. I don't have to think
about which folder I'm in when using templates. I can pool messages in a
single folder though I may be using multiple templates for recipients in
that single folder. If I move a message to another folder, I can hit
reply and still the correct template is used (a typical example is
forwarding one of my archived messages. The message may be in another
!!account!!,ie, my archive account and yet the correct templates are
used). Now *that's* safe and that's more flexible. I feel more free and
not constrained about where to have messages when replying to them or
forwarding them.

NA  With respect to circumventing the 'bugs' outlined above, perhaps.
NA However, TB!'s Address Book's finicky behaviour is well documented.

Ah now, Nick, that's not a fair statement now is it? :-) We have
detected one prerequisite for address book templates to work and this is
that default/account level templates have to be defined. Otherwise they
work just fine and with a high degree of reliability. My address book
templates have survived many beta cycles and two installation
transfers, ie, when I reinstalled NT4, when I newly installed Win2k and
just recently, when I installed Win2k on my new hard disk.

I've never experienced finicky behaviour that's unique to address book
templates and I use them extensively.

NA Having to now trust all my Message Templates to the whims of the AB
NA causes me even more concern. :o(

:-)

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A. Curtis Martin..
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Re: Common component?

[A . Curtis Martin]

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  On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:37:19 -0400, Don Zeigler wrote:

DZ I've been testing The Bat! off an on for several days and am very
DZ impressed with the software. However, I'm a user who likes for mail
DZ for all accounts to share a common "destination" -- it all arrives
DZ in one inbox for further sorting as I need it. Likewise with filters
DZ - I find it cumbersome to have to set up filters for multiple
DZ accounts. Many users prefer to have multiple account's mail
DZ separated completely, but it would be great if a future version of
DZ The Bat! allowed the user to have the option to use the same set of
DZ filters on all accounts, etc.

There is a little application called X-Ray which may ease your pain. It
was created for use with TB!. It functions as a basic local POP and SMTP
server.

Interestingly you can define multiple POP accounts in Xray and use the
option to cycle the addresses. What this does is that with each new
mail check, a different POP account is checked. So in conjunction with
X-Ray, you could create a single account and define the POP address as
localhost. X-Ray will send the messages from all POP accounts to the
same TB! account. You would only need one set of filters.

If you really wish for all your new messages to be placed in the inbox
of one account then you really only need to define a single incoming
filter for the other accounts and this is one to move all incoming
messages to the main accounts inbox.

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Re: Rally Masters

[Nick Andriash]

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On October 18, 2000, at 9:16:28 PM, A. Curtis Martin Wrote:

NA Ok, my apologies... I wasn't sure about that. So, having moved all
NA my Templates over to the AB level, it looks like I am still
NA vulnerable to that bug. :o(

 AFAICK, this has nothing to do with templates and how they work.

Yes, I realize that now.

 If a mailto link is invoked externally, then it's quite obvious that the
 user wants the message addressed only to the mailto address.

That is not any more obvious than when clicking a MailTo link in a
message. Where they are found has nothing to do with their intent, and
therefore they should be treated alike.

 IOW's, I agree with Marck that it's not a bug but only TB! doing as the
 user instructs.

Alright, I'll agree that it may not be a 'bug', but this is a case where
TB! *is* assuming what the User wants, simply by the way it handles
MailTo's in two different circumstances. If TB! treated message MailTo's
the same way it handles external one's, this whole discussion wouldn't be
necessary, and Users could use Folder Templates free from worry and
concern. :o)

 The way folder templates are implemented is just fine to me. It's just
 that address book templates provide a better solution for me. I have
 nothing against folder templates, but if the user wishes to use them,
 they have to understand the logical constraints and limitations
 involved, then work within them.

Logical? I don't see the logic in *assuming* you want anything different
from a message MailTo, than you would from one found externally. Take your
signature for example. When I click on your MailTo to obtain a copy of
your PGP Keys, where is the logic in TB! *assuming* I would like that
request addressed to the List as well?

NA I remember reading where Allie experimented by associating his AB
NA with an LDAP Server, and ended up completely losing his AB if I'm
NA not mistaken.

 But again, this has nothing to do with using address book templates.

No, I realize that... what we were talking about, was how finicky the AB
can be at times, potentially affecting the AB Templates.


Nick


N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.47B7 | PGP 7.0 | Win 98 SE ]
 Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
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Re: Rally Masters

[Nick Andriash]

On October 18, 2000, at 9:45:51 PM, A. Curtis Martin Wrote:

NA  With respect to circumventing the 'bugs' outlined above, perhaps.
NA However, TB!'s Address Book's finicky behaviour is well documented.

 Ah now, Nick, that's not a fair statement now is it? :-)

No, in hindsight it's not. :o)


Nick


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