Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Soren, My mistake. Tones On Tuesday, 8 June 2021 at 11:09:47 UTC+10 Soren Bjornstad wrote: > Tones, I think you are confusing Discord and Discourse as happened earlier > up the thread > . > They are totally unrelated and

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Tones, I think you are confusing Discord and Discourse as happened earlier up the thread . They are totally unrelated and Discourse is for long-form writing and discussions , not chat. On

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

I'm sorry, and squirming such that I can't help myself: who is Yammer, and do his eyes light up when you hole the light ? Yeah, I'm a bad sMeller too. And a gudder-heeyoumured tinker too. This is what happens when folk can't edit their posts. To me, potential for hilarity which just has me

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

ha Ha "bad sMellers," Totally agree, I am one of them, not to mention typos Seriously being able to edit the top post was a great way of summarising the results that come out in the thread. A Simple standard to update the top post when a question is answered, and the answer etc... would add

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

saq.i...@gmail.com wrote: > Jeremy just so you are aware, the issues with posting via the web >> interface go beyond just difficulty in making monospaced blocks. >> > IF you ONLY use this GG though EMAIL then you WON'T know what got LOST recently ... (and other functions too ...) - CODE

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Stobot wrote: > Oof, I have had *minor* annoyances with Google Groups posting, but sounds > like nothing near what you guys (Soren / Saq) have been having. Never forget ME. I wrote the OP :-) That is RHYMING SLANG too :-) Issues are very much about HOW to OPTIMIZE search in the GG. Jeremy

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Oof, I have had *minor* annoyances with Google Groups posting, but sounds like nothing near what you guys (Soren / Saq) have been having. That does make things more urgent in my opinion. *Plugins* As we contemplate migrating the community to another platform, aside from making it nicer / more

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

> > > However, the editing experience, while it used to be tolerable, has become > horrendous since the latest UI “upgrade”. I regularly have the screen get > corrupted or lose data (wtf, how did this become acceptable), and doing > code formatting is a huge pain now. > > > I generally compose

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Hi Soren Excellent points, thank you. > Jeremy's concerns seem to focus around search, but I actually haven't found > Google Groups search to be that bad (you have to pick "sort by relevance" > instead of "sort by date" after every search or it is just about useless, > though – if you think

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

This is where a TiddlyWiki solution offers a lot more. Having a career in Knowledge and information management, support and troubleshooting - one thing I picked us is the questions are as important as the answers. The smart way is to capture the questions asked, those without answers become

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Although I preferred the previous incarnation of Google Groups, I'm liking the simplicity of this incarnation. I like anything that has a feel of minimalism, even if it has some warts. For complex searching of the group, I'm quite happy going to advanced Google Search, for example:

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Jeremy's concerns seem to focus around search, but I actually haven't found Google Groups search to be that bad (you have to pick "sort by relevance" instead of "sort by date" after every search or it is just about useless, though – if you think it's bad and you haven't tried that, do).

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Hey all, this has been annoying for me, too. I thought, discourse isn‘t that old (or other open source hostable solutions), so probably it’s easier to stay here. But GG is crap. I think discourse is a good Solution that can be implemented first on the side, if some „main“ people are willing

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao TW Tones I hear you. AND I do SEE that GG got impoverished ... recently the following ... - Easy ability to email a poster privately went AWOL ... - CODE blocks just disappeared - Ability to RE-EDIT posts went away - Taggery is mainly currently pointless (complex issue in TW

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

TT, I was just reviewing the concept of exit strategy. I am running a test on a group I own. Google permits you to export most information they hold for you and this seems to include ALL mail in a google group. It would most likely be "big data" but it can be done it seems. Then with this

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

TW Tones wrote: > ... It is true there are a lot of good ideas but its like herding cats and > always will be unless there were a clear leader as a replacement. > Lol! Right! Herding cats? Non-starter! You probably read my last two posts. Actually rather than focus on exit strategies I got

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao Mat I appreciate your post. Because you have the history to have nice clear opinions! ACTUALLY in my frame of mind NOW, rather than in the past, I actually think a FIRST question might be... * Can we delve the GG better? For the solutions that ARE there users need?* In other words, can

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao Jeremy I thought that a great example. Yes you CAN find things IF you know an exact string, BUT the issue is you need to know the exact phrase. AND you need to use Google for easiest hit. The issue that the OP was, maybe not as clear as it should have been, is I want to be able to

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Folks, I have being reluctant to reenter (and read everyone's detailed responses) this discussion, as it has being had many times. It is true there are a lot of good ideas but its like herding cats and always will be unless there were a clear leader as a replacement. I tried to promote the

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

If someone is serious about just getting out of GG, then I guess a first thing to do is to put up some comparison table or even a wiki to collect benefits and drawbacks with each solution and pit them against each other. Including GG. One idea would be to put up a google form so people can post

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

> NO, Google Groups search is TERRIBLE. > And WORSE than it was before. > > And that is a MAJOR factor in end-user frustration. > > Please prove me wrong. > Show some complex searches that work? :-) I think whether we use Google Groups or Discourse, the best way to search the archives will

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

eddi...@gmail.com wrote: > ... easily searchable and while I am sure there maybe better alternatives > out there, I personally just do not see the benefit in moving the entire > community to a new platform *Very interesting post *except "easily searchable". NO, Google Groups search is

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

This has been an ongoing topic forever! Just my 2 cents but we appear to be having a pretty good "discourse" in here on this subject right now. The accumulated knowledge and history of TW is right here in one place (other than GIT of course) easily searchable and while I am sure there maybe

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 11:56:51 AM UTC-7 Mat wrote: > > I don't know the details but I feel there is a general risk in being tied > up in someone elses solution. Critical word is "tied up". Who owns the > data? Even if we own the data, can it be exported? For free? Forever? Etc. > I'm

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

I had written a longer and more detailed reply but par for the course, the UI glitched out and I lost part of the post. On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:34:06 PM UTC+2 Mat wrote: > > Yeah, no doubt it would be a substantial effort. But on the other hand > there's no particular rush > As I said,

Re: [tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Hey all! Just checking out this thread, I would like to add my dissatisfaction with GG, which I find to be dis-intuitive and old-feeling. Looking at some ideas for a new platform, I can see that most of them cost either money, or lots and lots of time. As I feel that much of the community seems

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Saq Imtiaz wrote: > The effort and resources required to implement a good discussion system > are *quite substantial, *and personally I think better spent on various > other needs in the community. > Yeah, no doubt it would be a substantial effort. But on the other hand there's no particular

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Mark S. wrote: > I think a $1200 solution is a non-starter. There might be enough > enthusiasm for it this year, but what happens when it becomes defunded in > two years? Three years? Suddenly everything is lost. Not even GG is that > bad. > We are IMO, unfortunately, *forced *to agree

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Interesting topics and solutions could be entered into tiddlylinks. I think a $1200 solution is a non-starter. There might be enough enthusiasm for it this year, but what happens when it becomes defunded in two years? Three years? Suddenly everything is lost. Not even GG is that bad. You

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Dooh! Thanks @saq for the helpful clarification ( /walt leaves the conversation to those who actually know what they are talking about :-) On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 2:57:31 PM UTC+1 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote: > *Some clarification:* > > Discord and Discourse

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

*Some clarification:* Discord and Discourse are not the same. The former is primarily a real time chat, while the latter is an open source forum software. Discourse is open source and free to self-host. Paying for professional hosting is

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Not to keep banging the Discord drum- there's a bigger conversation here that needs to run its course -but i have to ask, since there's a question in the air about hosting: Re this "TiddlyWiki 5" server that i have in my Discord client (has a blue w/ white "T5" icon in server browser): Where

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

First: Any other solution than what we have is probably more likely to split the users than to unite them. This is a main reason why I don't participate in any other group than this one (and the gh dev group). Second: There is reason to be skeptical of any central system. If they decide to X

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

PMario wrote: > TiddlyTweeter wrote: > >> Tagging posts proved to be not adequate here. >> > > That's right. > Taggery in the short time I been in this group has gone from virtually none to "open-house". "Open-house" was good in a way in that there was more frequent usage of tags. But it was

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

> > TiddlyTweeter wrote: > >> It is terrible on Search. > > PMario wrote: > That's right. ... Most of the time, I have to search for my own name to > find threads, where I replied to :/. ... Or I have to filter for "stars". I > do "star" every answer or thread, that I think may be

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

PMario wrote ... > I think, this is a strength here in the group, that questions are > answered, even if they have been asked in a slightly different way. ... At > least we post a link or two. ... I think this is much more welcoming, than " > RTFM " ... > *I

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ste wrote: > Just looking at discourse home page it's free but the minimum hosting is > $100 a month and they also do free free for open source projects. We is > open source. Can we has free? > I'm a little confused about what's free and what's worth $100 a month. > I think a far BIGGER

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao PMario I thought your post interesting and reflective ... I WOULD upvote it IF I could, which I can't :-) PMario wrote: > What is this needed for? -- > It CAN signal EXCELLENCE. > I personally think this is discriminating. > Ermmm. Yes! But it is not like "racism". It is an

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Just looking at discourse home page it's free but the minimum hosting is $100 a month and they also do free free for open source projects. We is open source. Can we has free? I'm a little confused about what's free and what's worth $100 a month. On Sunday, 30 May 2021 at 12:15:07 UTC+1 PMario

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

On Sunday, May 30, 2021 at 10:04:26 AM UTC+2 TiddlyTweeter wrote: In past discussions, some quite passionate (I wish I could QUOTE from them, > but OF COURSE* I can't find them! *Lol -:), led to a number of > initiatives. > The most significant long-lasting one being TiddlyWiki on REDDIT,

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao Saq, VERY interesting, thoughtful, post! I would UPVOTE it if Google Groups supported upvoting! :-) >> start building towards something better with tools that help us, rather than continuing to struggle to work around the limitations of GG; which only seem to be getting worse. It is

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

@TT I've been in this group on and off since 2006. I've seen some if not all of the discussions around GG shortcomings and alternatives. I've been one of the people previously worried about losing membership if we transitioned away from GG. However especially with the recent GG changes, at

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

I share your pain, @TT... and am +1 @saq's idea about Discourse and how to fund it. I for one would be happy to chip in a few $/month to support this community, and- from earlier discussion thread @Tones initiated (can't seem to find it now; see the problem? :-) -i gather that there be

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

Ciao saq.i ... I don't how long you been in this group? What I do know is regularly, over a few years, the inadequacies of Google Groups has be re-hashed several times in serious posts about it. In past discussions, some quite passionate (I wish I could QUOTE from them, but OF COURSE* I can't

[tw5] Re: [Comment] My Ongoing Irritations with Google Groups

I would like to see us move to using Discourse for discussions. In particular the search feature is very well implemented. Professional hosting ranges $50-100 per month. Personally I think an Open Collective model for where the community chips in with recurring