[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

I'm pretty sure we are talking very different problems. The problem I am solving is trying to guarantee as much as possible and with the least amount of fuss: prevent a URL, out in the wild and to a specific tiddler existing in a TiddlyWiki that is also out in the wild, from not opening that

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi, To remove it, just delete the permalink button: (replace URL with your own) https://tiddlywiki.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fui%2FButtons%2Fpermalink But I don't think we are changing any core functionality with this button; all we have done is replaced the single button and all it does is making a

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Anders: much as i appreciate the brilliance of your solution to this problem, i think that -since Charlie's come up w/ a different solution that solves the problem w/o opening core functionality to possible corruption (right? i hope!)- then maybe i would do well to remove this

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Okay, package of tiddlers (updated since the video) posted in A Prototype of UID's for stable permalinks conversation. On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 9:56:32 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote: > YouTube video: TiddlyWiki: A Prototype of UID's

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 2:56:32 AM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote: > YouTube video: TiddlyWiki: A Prototype of UID's for stable permalinks > See my comment here: https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/l2Mwu3pOAXw/m/9V3mVFXLBAAJ Linking to a tiddler must

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:39:36 AM UTC+2 ludwa6 wrote ... So what would be the problem with simply populating that field with a crash number, as every RDBMS worth of the name does as a rule? A random number isn't human readable. What I did like at

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

I can confirm that if your permalink is out of date (ie the tiddler no longer exists) opr you click on a link to a tiddler title that does not exist, the view template tiddler $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/body will display the tiddler $:/language/MissingTiddler/Hint which contains Missing tiddler

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Interesting thoughts, @Tones (as usual), two of which i find most stimulating: On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 5:21:27 AM UTC+1 TW Tones wrote: > ...If you want to try that you can create a view template that tests if > the tiddler is missing. If it is it will display the missing message and >

Re: [tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 8:42 PM Anjar wrote: > Hi, Hi Andres, > > Here is a demo for a new permalink button. It creates a new field called > permalink and inserts -. Since the title is > unique at creation, this string should be unique (?). Further, it copies > the appropriate link to the

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Q: What's even better than "Rough Consensus & Running Code" ? A: All that, plus a video explainer to boot :-). Of all my YT channel subs, Charlie, yours is the one that i am watching most eagerly to see what comes next. Rock on, man! /walt On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 1:56:32 AM UTC+1

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Cj, If you want to try that you can create a view template that tests if the tiddler is missing. If it is it will display the missing message and you can interrogate the URL used to get there and propose the users click a search button to find the tiddlers new title, if by no other method than

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

That is some good stuff. Only one of those I'd dare fuss about: - Using URL's containing search and reference to a unique ID is superior to permanent links. That one I'd say "it depends" on a whole bunch of things. Every solution is superior to every other one depending on the

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

There is a lot of water under the bridge in this thread so here are a few points that may or may have not being covered; - In summary it is not difficult to generate stable permalinks. This is based on 100's of hours of my time considering these issues and dozens of prior conversations.

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

YouTube video: TiddlyWiki: A Prototype of UID's for stable permalinks On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 5:34:24 AM UTC-3 ludwa6 wrote: > The more i use TW, the more concerned i become about maintaining data > integrity -and so this issue has boiled to the top of my

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

This sounds like symbolic links vs hard links in file systems. If you change the name of the file that a symbolic link (or shortcut in Windows) points to, it breaks. If you change the name of a file that a hard link points to it doesn't break . The reason for this is that the hardlink doesn't

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

uups. Here's the link to the github discussion: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions/5668 On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 12:07:37 AM UTC+2 PMario wrote: > I did create a Discussion at github. So it should be longer visible for > the devs. > > Title: New Idea about Permalinks and

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi Walt, Yes, link-rot is a problem. If we could improve it, we should definitely think about it. I think the relink-plugin is very popular. It is one of the first plugins I import into my own wikis. ... It makes it easy and safe to change tiddler titles, without messing up the wiki. So

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

I did create a Discussion at github. So it should be longer visible for the devs. Title: New Idea about Permalinks and link-rot using tiddler titles #5668 With the popularity of the relink-plugin, it is much easier for users to change tiddler titles, without messing up the wiki itself.

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 6:12:15 PM UTC+2 Anjar wrote: Here is a demo for a new permalink button. It creates a new field called > permalink and inserts -. Since the title is > unique at creation, this string should be unique (?). Further, it copies > the appropriate link to the clipboard;

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi Walt, I am glad it solved the first problem. Ad #2: You are right, permalinks created *earlier *are not affected by this solution. However, if you *now *rename the SolutionToProblemOfLinkRot tiddler to ProblemOfLinkRot and click the permalink button, then both

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Correction to my last: dunno what caused the phenom i reported as #1 above, but i can no longer replicate that error; the new URL works fine. However: problem #2 reported above persists -and so my question about a potentially simpler solution to this two-headed problem stands. /walt On

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Your spec ticks all the boxes, Anders... So i installed it, but not getting the hoped-for result, alas. *What i did:* Changed URL on the "ProblemOfLinkRot" tiddler to "SolutionToProblemOfLinkRot"; selected (modified) Permalink button in pulldown tiddler menu -and it copied the composite URL,

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi, Here is a demo for a new permalink button. It creates a new field called permalink and inserts -. Since the title is unique at creation, this string should be unique (?). Further, it copies the appropriate link to the clipboard;

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Here are some related threads where I also shared some thoughts along this topic: https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/pvc-qqoWHdI/m/TcX3FPNaAgAJ https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/WtNz2X10jIA/m/9VaQHBjUCwAJ I also would love to have built in support for uniqueIDs (created serves

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Oh, and also a button to give a tiddler a uid field with an auto-generated uid value. Something like that ... On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 12:07:59 PM UTC-3 Charlie Veniot wrote: > Anders, you sweet and huggable you. > > That way of getting tiddlers is new to me, and just gave me a fantastic

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Anders, you sweet and huggable you. That way of getting tiddlers is new to me, and just gave me a fantastic idea. Now knowing that URL's like https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[title[Saving%20on%20TiddlySpot]] and https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[delivery[Service]] Then having auto-generated/auto-created

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Ciao Anjar & David Nice one! I agree with David. Without a clear, one button, method to get the "PERSISTENT DATE STAMP REAL PERMALINK" like that it is too obscure a method for daily use. When you open the tiddler "created" field is, of course, not visible. *SO how do you quickly, one

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

I forget to mention that ProjectForum is defunct since 2016, just in case anybody's curiosity got the best of them. If curiosity is still getting the best of you: https://web.archive.org/web/20160528045948/http://www.projectforum.com/pf/pfuserguide.pdf On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 10:43:16 AM

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

TiddlyWiki's Tiddler Template could be modified to show something other than the title field in the "title area" of a tiddler. Not sure how much fiddling it would take to get that working. Using createdate is a really quick way to go, It can only be a little bit lousy on a day in which a

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Another solution: when one wants a link to a tiddler that will never change: create a "URL-safe" tiddler (i.e. a name that will never change) with the only purpose of transcluding a tiddler with a title that could be subject to change at any time. So, if you have "Tiddler XYZ", have an

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

> I agree with you and see the problem. One simple solution is just sharing > links like https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[created[2014090408570]] > Anjar, I like this idea. Is there a way to hijack the permalink button so that it displays this? -- You received this message because you are

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

That's a new one on me, Anders; will give that plugin a try -thanks! /w On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 2:59:09 PM UTC+1 Anjar wrote: > Hi Walt, > > It should be trivial to modify the permalink button to produce links as > https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[created[2014090408570]] but the creation >

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Right-click on the link, copy and paste ? Kind of like this: https://tifoist.neocities.org/CJ_TIFOIST_PROJECT.html#Fact-01 Because, say, "Tid-123" is a little hard to identify, one would need to customize TiddlyWiki a little to have links that display maybe the caption field's text

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

I've been following your forms development w/ interest, Charlie -and this makes it all the more interesting- but i really think this idea of permalinks using createdate is much simpler, if indeed that attribute satisfies the 2 aforementioned criteria. There is so much goodness in a TW

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi Walt, It should be trivial to modify the permalink button to produce links as https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[created[2014090408570]] but the creation time is not guaranteed to be unique (the link will then open both tiddlers, so no harm is done), although in practice it usually will be An

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Yes, TT: PERMAlink should be just that -which is why i advocate for tying it to something that is both guaranteed unique AND immutable by its very nature -not by convention (i.e. best practice). In fact one should be free to change Title of a tiddler, as it is the right thing to do under

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Ciao cj.v..., Interesting! Functionally that is working like a SURROGATE permanent REDIRECT. *It is a clever solution!* but requires the logic of the Wiki to change considerably and its owner to know what to do. :-) HOW, for instance, do you quickly generate a PERMALINK you can quickly post

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

G'day walt, That is a huge pain point for me. In my previous career, I relied heavily on the ProjectForum Wiki to keep track of everything. It did not use page names in URL links, but rather used auto-generated unique identifiers. So I could change page titles to my heart's content, knowing

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hey @Anjar -that's cool! Could be the makings of a viable solution. Question: Create-date is both immutable, even if the tiddler name is modified, and guaranteed unique -is that right? If so, then this would satisfy the conditions of a UID -and then i can still change the tiddler's Title

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Ciao walt, I feel your pain. BUT a PERMAlink is as its name suggests. All the gizmoidology we have in TW now to CHANGE the Titles of tiddlers and correctly RELINK them will NOT address the PERMAurl issue if the clickee ONLY has your previous version of the link. This leads me to think you are

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Hi, I agree with you and see the problem. One simple solution is just sharing links like https://tiddlywiki.com/#:[created[2014090408570]] Best, Anders onsdag 5. mai 2021 kl. 14:15:43 UTC+2 skrev ludwa6: > OK @Tones & @TT: if neither of you guys sees this as problematic, then i'd > better

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

OK @Tones & @TT: if neither of you guys sees this as problematic, then i'd better explain myself better. Here's a meta-example i've just documented: 1. Create a tiddler on this topic, and give it a permalink: https://meta.tiddlyhost.com/#AvoidingLinkRot. Share link with friends, to

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Ciao walt, Right. Tiddler PERMALINK-ability posted as URLs elsewhere is intimately tied to NOT changing Titles. Personally I can't get in a hot sweat over that. That is no different than any other web page. SURE you could get into REDIRECTS on a server or up the complexity within TW of

[tw5] Re: Relink vs Permalinks

Walt, As I understand it your concern is when using permalinks. In this case you are externalising a tiddler with a URL. I think there is an argument that if you use a permalink it should be for something permanent. Now if you would like the ability to generate a link that will return to the