Re: [tw5] NoteTaking in Streams

[Frédéric Demers]

I use Streams daily (all my TW interactions are Streams-based). I my 
workflow, I treat them as sub-tiddlers really. You could say I replaced 
larger tiddlers with multiple headings with much smaller streams nodes (but 
not single line ones); main advantage is I can move nodes around, indent 
them, etc... and drag them from one tiddler to another (although I have 
recently noted this has an unfortunate side effect). And the double-click 
edit is very handy, focused to the one sub-tiddler I care to change.

I have customized the node titles to be  <$macrocall $name="unusedtitle" 
baseName=<> separator="/" /> (requires pre-release). In my workflow 
however, the return key does not create a new nodes; shift-return does (
ctrl-return exits edit mode). This way I can enter several lines, bullets, 
etc.. and when I am ready, shift-return for the next node. I like that 
better. I use alt-right, alt-left to indent, so I can manage lists of 
bullets, number or checkboxes.

In all I am a big fan; I have on occasion wished for the ability to flatten 
and move content around to overcome the unfortunate side-effect, but have 
done so manually.

Cheers; and thanks Saq!


On Thursday, 24 June 2021 at 19:01:09 UTC-4 Si wrote:

> Hi Walt,
>
> SO this is to ask all of you with any experience of Streams plugin: Can 
>> you relate to the need i am expressing?  Or have you found a good way 
>> "flatten" your streams, and integrate your Streams content properly into a 
>> TW instance?  If so, anything you might care to share in terms of workflow 
>> and/or code would be most appreciated.
>
>
> I don't personally have any need to convert a stream into a bulleted list 
> within a single tiddler*.* As you note, outliners very useful for agile 
> note taking, but in my opinion a hierarchical list is not the best way to 
> *present* a single idea. So in general once I have moved my streams nodes 
> to their evergreen home, I aspire to convert my notes into more readable 
> prose. I do this by rearranging the nodes into a flat list, re-writing as 
> required, and then flattening with a button described here: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/rEtegfiGYJE/m/L0-euDfWAAAJ
>
> In reality I rarely actually get to that stage, and am generally happy to 
> leave my evergreen notes in "node-form". I don't personally see any benefit 
> in converting them to a bulleted markdown list, but it depends on what your 
> use case is?
>
> Meanwhile: i too would very much like to know who else is using Streams 
>> regularly, and in what sort of workflow(s). 
>> So if you are one, dear reader, please let us know!  
>
>
>  Hi Saq,
>
> One of the things I would dearly like to know is how many people are 
>> actually using Streams on a regular basis, and what their workflow looks 
>> like. My feeling is its a very small handful and I'll admit that probably 
>> influences how much time I devote to working on Streams.
>
>
> You may have seen it but I roughly described my workflow here: 
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/gbEHUyX8dc0/m/r1yF5JdXCAAJ
>
> For me Streams excels at quickly capturing information that I cannot yet 
> fit into any main ideas within your knowledge. Being able to re-jig this 
> captured information is helpful for making sense of it, eventually 
> integrating them with the main ideas that I want to internalise. In 
> particular this can help to break through some of the constraints of linear 
> reading.
>
> I aspire to one day build some incremental reading 
>  tools with 
> TiddlyWiki, which may partially replace my use of streams, but for now I 
> have found streams to be the best solution for non-linear reading.
>
> On the topic of how many people use it, maybe you could consider creating 
> a Google Form and linking to it from the download page, asking users if 
> they would take a second to answer some brief questions?
>
> I was also wondering if you had considered setting up a way for users to 
> donate? Not necessarily to fund development, just to show appreciation for 
> great free software! I am not currently in a position to contribute much, 
> but in the future I would certainly be happy to subscribe to a patreon or 
> whatever.
>
> I would add that like Mario I am very happy with the current features of 
> streams, though I have made the following tweak to the text display for the 
> breadcrumbs. It's a very minor thing, but in my opinion looks nicer than 
> just cutting off the title mid-word:
>
> <$text text={{{ 
> [length[]compare:number:lt[40]then] 
> ~[split[]first[40]join[]trim[]addsuffix[...]] }}}/>
>
>  I wonder if you think it should be added when you next update?
>
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 14:22, ludwa6  wrote:
>
>> Picking up where this earlier thread 
>>  left off, i am 
>> following Saq's advice 
>>  to 
>> start another 

Re: [tw5] NoteTaking in Streams

[Si Si]

Hi Walt,

SO this is to ask all of you with any experience of Streams plugin: Can you
> relate to the need i am expressing?  Or have you found a good way "flatten"
> your streams, and integrate your Streams content properly into a TW
> instance?  If so, anything you might care to share in terms of workflow
> and/or code would be most appreciated.


I don't personally have any need to convert a stream into a bulleted list
within a single tiddler*.* As you note, outliners very useful for agile
note taking, but in my opinion a hierarchical list is not the best way to
*present* a single idea. So in general once I have moved my streams nodes
to their evergreen home, I aspire to convert my notes into more readable
prose. I do this by rearranging the nodes into a flat list, re-writing as
required, and then flattening with a button described here:
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/rEtegfiGYJE/m/L0-euDfWAAAJ

In reality I rarely actually get to that stage, and am generally happy to
leave my evergreen notes in "node-form". I don't personally see any benefit
in converting them to a bulleted markdown list, but it depends on what your
use case is?

Meanwhile: i too would very much like to know who else is using Streams
> regularly, and in what sort of workflow(s).
> So if you are one, dear reader, please let us know!


 Hi Saq,

One of the things I would dearly like to know is how many people are
> actually using Streams on a regular basis, and what their workflow looks
> like. My feeling is its a very small handful and I'll admit that probably
> influences how much time I devote to working on Streams.


You may have seen it but I roughly described my workflow here:
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/gbEHUyX8dc0/m/r1yF5JdXCAAJ

For me Streams excels at quickly capturing information that I cannot yet
fit into any main ideas within your knowledge. Being able to re-jig this
captured information is helpful for making sense of it, eventually
integrating them with the main ideas that I want to internalise. In
particular this can help to break through some of the constraints of linear
reading.

I aspire to one day build some incremental reading
 tools with TiddlyWiki,
which may partially replace my use of streams, but for now I have found
streams to be the best solution for non-linear reading.

On the topic of how many people use it, maybe you could consider creating a
Google Form and linking to it from the download page, asking users if they
would take a second to answer some brief questions?

I was also wondering if you had considered setting up a way for users to
donate? Not necessarily to fund development, just to show appreciation for
great free software! I am not currently in a position to contribute much,
but in the future I would certainly be happy to subscribe to a patreon or
whatever.

I would add that like Mario I am very happy with the current features of
streams, though I have made the following tweak to the text display for the
breadcrumbs. It's a very minor thing, but in my opinion looks nicer than
just cutting off the title mid-word:

<$text text={{{
[length[]compare:number:lt[40]then]
~[split[]first[40]join[]trim[]addsuffix[...]] }}}/>

 I wonder if you think it should be added when you next update?

On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 14:22, ludwa6  wrote:

> Picking up where this earlier thread
>  left off, i am
> following Saq's advice
>  to
> start another conversation on the more specific question of HOW best to use
> -and perhaps adapt- the Streams plugin, to make TW into a great tool for
> not only "intertwingly" NoteTaking (which it certainly is), but also great
> for agile NoteTaking, as defined in aforementioned thread.
>
> Having just installed the plugin (Streams 0.2.18) in my TiddlyDesktop
> instance, i am already fairly drunk on the power of having what feels like
> a full-fledged outliner *within* a tiddler, where i can bang out a stream
> of bullet points, promote & demote, indent & outdent, etc... All as fast as
> i can type the keystrokes, or drag on mobile.
>
> But then: the result is a slew of tiddlers with long numeric IDs that, tho
> nicely presented in the edit window as a clean hierarchal outline, cannot
> be either flattened into a single tiddler, nor exported or even copy/pasted
> into the tiddler body via any built-in affordance.  I've been going the
> copy/paste way so far, but it's a hard road to travel, given any
> significant length and/or complexity to your outline.
>
> Now: plugin author Saq said essentially
> 
> that the only reason he hasn't built in any such affordance is that he
> doesn't know what users want: a simple concatenation of the stream? a
> hierarchial structure in some form?
>
> For me, the best (and simplest?) solution 

[tw5] Re: Node.js modification saved... until I restart the server

[David SZERMAN]

Sorry, it was related to the way it was installed ; it works now

Le jeudi 24 juin 2021 à 23:11:04 UTC+2, PMario a écrit :

> Hi, 
> Can you show us the tiddlywiki.info file you use?
>
> What do you mean with "(saved in the cache)" ... 
>
> Do you have access to the filesystem on your server? ... If you change a 
> tiddler, does it show up in the /tiddlers/ directory?
>
> -m
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Node.js modification saved... until I restart the server

[PMario]

Hi, 
Can you show us the tiddlywiki.info file you use?

What do you mean with "(saved in the cache)" ... 

Do you have access to the filesystem on your server? ... If you change a 
tiddler, does it show up in the /tiddlers/ directory?

-m

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[tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams

[PMario]

Hi Walt,

I don't use streams regularly but from time to time it's convenient for 
brainstorming and refactoring to get ideas sorted. 

I did a heavy test with an early version in August 2020 for 2 days, where I 
did follow an online conference about DAT (now Hyper). It was possible to 
follow the live-stream and the chat to keep notes in real time. The wiki 
can be seen at: http://dat-conf-2020.tiddlyspot.com/ ... BUT it doesn't 
make sense on it's own. You'll need the Agenda 
 and the Videos 
 . 

I did set streams up in way, that tiddler titles create an automatic 
"timeline" ... Which will allow my to connect the notes to the videos, if 
needed. 

Every tiddler has this format DAT-CON/2020/07/30/16:08:49-582 

  
DAT-CON0hh:0mm:0ss-XXX

So the TW tree-macro can also be used to view the timeline 
 in a different 
format. The tree-macro in the example only shows the tiddler titles. To 
show more info I needed to modify the macro according to my needs, but 
that's not public. 

I basically use the notes with the default search function. .. I open the 
tiddlers .. have a look for my own keywords to find the tiddler with the 
exact "timestamp"... With the timestamp I can find the related discussion 
or presentation in the Videos. ---> That's the main purpose of this 
outline. 

The published version doesn't contain any personal notes. ... So for me 
there is absolutely no desire to "flatten" the structure. ... I "widen" it 
with my notes and additional links to loosely related blog posts and github 
repos ... 

My initial feedback can be found here: 
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/1jTwdmq8cgI/m/Orm9JRVNBQAJ ... The 
main problems that I did mention there with streams V0.1.10 are fixed with 
the latest version (0.2.18) of streams. So I'm perfectly fine with the 
possibilities it offers. 

For my personal convenience I need to adjust 1 little bit of CSS 
. I need a different colour for 
the "collapse indicator", if a parent node is collapsed. It would be cool, 
if this was configurable, but in normal cases I only copy paste the CSS 
tiddler. 

I need to add the "keyboard shortcut 
"
 
cheat-sheet to the right sidebar by adding the tag $:/tags/Sidebar. @Saq 
This could be part of the control-panel config options ;) I need it for the 
shortcuts that I use seldom. 

For me "streams" is probably _the_ "easiest to use" "realtime" outliner 
I've ever used. 

For exporting you should probably have a closer look at the filters 
 
that Saq mentioned. Especially the last one. ... 

You are right, there is some room for improvement if "lists of stream 
tiddler titles" are shown. They are not very informative ... But imo the 
problem is, the needed list templates are highly use-case specific. .. So I 
actually don't know how they should look like. Not even form my own 
usecases. 

Since stream uses a field named "parent" to link to parent tiddlers my tocP 
macro  can also be used to show 
the structure. BUT in the current form this isn't too useful, since it only 
shows the title. ... I was experimenting to show the "subtitle" field, but 
adding that field manually is way too much work, to be done in realtime. 
(Mainly because finding good tiddler sub-titles is hard) ... I'm still not 
sure, how to solve this in a convenient and fast way. 

I hope this helps. 

have fun!
mario

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[tw5] Re: Embedded images not showing on Quine2

[Darth Mole]

You have to setup external image references using the _canonical_uri field 
in individual tiddlers - https://tiddlywiki.com/#Images%20in%20WikiText

This link is from the Quine 2 google group and has some examples with a 
similar situation 
- https://groups.google.com/g/quine-app/c/5NQ1WnP0NSw/m/pRHPkFiCBAAJ

I don't have external images in my TiddlyWiki so I haven't done the steps 
outlined in the above links so I can't say for sure how thorough/complete 
the instructions are.

Hope it helps some!

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 4:36:39 PM UTC-4 iv...@ivanferrero.it wrote:

> Greetings, what's wrong with my syntax?
> My goal is to keep the images external so that they don't accumulate 
> inside the TiddlyWiki file.
> All is good on Desktop using Firefox, but when I open Quine 2 the result 
> is as shown in the screenshot: two small empty squares in place of two 
> images.
> I store my file on iCloud.
> Thank you!
> [image: IMG_3003.jpeg][image: IMG_3004.jpeg]
>

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[tw5] Re: Is List Grouping Using Tags or Tiddler Fields Possible?

[Darth Mole]

Hello!

So I'm not sure if there was some confusion between PMario and I or what 
but I was able to figure it out! :D (Sorry, really giddy even though I'm 
still a little uncertain the details of the solution lol).

<$list filter=[has[sett-type]each[sett-type]]>

''<$view field="sett-type"/>''
<$list filter="[contains:sett-type{!!sett-type}!is[system]sort[title]]">

<$link to={{!!title}}><$view field="title"/>





I have several Tiddlers each with a custom "sett-type" field with a 
subsequent value. I may have three Tiddlers listed as *Town* and two listed 
as *City*

IE: sett-type: Town or sett-type: City

The above code filters all Tiddlers with the sett-type field and then 
groups them by their sett-type field value.

IE: 

*City*
   City 1
   City 2

*Town*
   Town 1
   Town 2
   Town 3

The big deal, at least for me, is now I don't need placeholder Tiddler's 
for City or Town regarding the toc code. I can replace the toc code on the 
main "Settlements" page (the Settlments index basically) with the above 
filtered list and get the same dynamic effect without the need for 
placeholder tiddlers.

Happy mole! 

<(^.^<) <(^.^)> (>^.^)>

Resources: https://tiddlywiki.com/#GroupedLists, 
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/GaBZEjEEUdg, 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#ListWidget

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 2:42:10 PM UTC-4 Darth Mole wrote:

> Thank you very much for clarifying PMario!
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 3:50:26 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:
>
>> If you want to group something you'll need real tiddlers. Otherwise you 
>> will get the problems you describe.. 
>>
>> You may be interested in the tocP macro which allows you to create tocs 
>> based on fields. The default is the parent field. But it can be any field 
>> name.  BUT you still need tiddlers
>>
>> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/
>>
>> -m
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Is List Grouping Using Tags or Tiddler Fields Possible?

[Darth Mole]

Thank you very much for clarifying PMario!

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 3:50:26 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> If you want to group something you'll need real tiddlers. Otherwise you 
> will get the problems you describe.. 
>
> You may be interested in the tocP macro which allows you to create tocs 
> based on fields. The default is the parent field. But it can be any field 
> name.  BUT you still need tiddlers
>
> https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/
>
> -m
>
>

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[tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams

[Saq Imtiaz]

@Walt

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 6:12:38 PM UTC+2 ludwa6 wrote:

> Hey @Saq: That demo of Streams-as-editor 
>  
> plugin 
> (what i presume is performing the magic, from browsing the plugin list) is 
> indeed interesting... But it freezes up when i push the "save" button (have 
> downloaded and tried an instance in both TiddlyDesktop and current Chrome 
> browser; no joy)
>

It's a demo of a concept that works on the demo site itself. I would not 
recommend it for anything else.
 

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[tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams

[ludwa6]

Hey @Saq: That demo of Streams-as-editor 
 
plugin 
(what i presume is performing the magic, from browsing the plugin list) is 
indeed interesting... But it freezes up when i push the "save" button (have 
downloaded and tried an instance in both TiddlyDesktop and current Chrome 
browser; no joy), so i don't know what sort of result it yields.  I'd 
install the plugin (the one labelled version 0.0.01, right?)  if i weren't 
afraid of what havoc it might wreak in my wiki, and how it plays alongside 
current Streams plugin (0.2.18 is what i have just installed).  Won't ask 
you to touch it, but if you have any sage advice to share, i'm all ears :-)

As to those other methods you outlined in the docs: I did consider them, 
but none yields the result i want.  The first one disregards node 
hierarchy, while the others yield html output.  What i need is a text 
format that preserves hierarchy, whether .MD or native wikitext and saves 
to a single tiddler; if that save process be a one-button save, then it 
should be wikitext, since that is default.  I hear you say that, given 
those approaches you laid out, i might "easily set up [my] own markdown 
export," but here my usual IABASF (I Am But A Simple Farmer) copout applies 
<8-)

Still: i'm not afraid to diddle with my Tiddly innards a bit, as time 
permits - which it does not just now, alas. 
Meanwhile: i too would very much like to know who else is using Streams 
regularly, and in what sort of workflow(s). 
So if you are one, dear reader, please let us know!

/walt
On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 3:59:33 PM UTC+1 saq.i...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Walt, 
>
> Hopefully you will get input from people actually using Streams as to what 
> works for them.
>
> One of the things I would dearly like to know is how many people are 
> actually using Streams on a regular basis, and what their workflow looks 
> like. My feeling is its a very small handful and I'll admit that probably 
> influences how much time I devote to working on Streams.
>   
>
>> But then: the result is a slew of tiddlers with long numeric IDs that, 
>> tho nicely presented in the edit window as a clean hierarchal outline, 
>> cannot be either flattened into a single tiddler, nor exported or even 
>> copy/pasted into the tiddler body via any built-in affordance.  I've been 
>> going the copy/paste way so far, but it's a hard road to travel, given any 
>> significant length and/or complexity to your outline. 
>>
>
> Have you considered any of the methods outlined here?
>  https://saqimtiaz.github.io/streams/#Working%20with%20streams%20tiddlers
>
> Now: plugin author Saq said essentially 
>>  
>> that the only reason he hasn't built in any such affordance is that he 
>>
> doesn't know what users want: a simple concatenation of the stream? a 
>> hierarchial structure in some form?
>>
>
> It's a bit more than that. Each node in a stream is a tiddler and can have 
> any content. Streams was originally envisioned not just for rapid note 
> taking but also for the ability to divide your text into smaller tiddlers 
> as you write/edit. As such it is difficult to envisage a single export 
> format that would work for everyone's content.  However using the 
> approaches outlined in the link above you can easily set up your own 
> markdown export.
>
>  
>
>> For me, the best (and simplest?) solution would be to convert the stream 
>> to Markdown: each node being just a line of text preceded by a number of 
>> asterisks (1->any) to reflect its level in the hierarchy.  
>>
>
> The issue is that MD tiddlers will always be second class citizens in 
> TiddlyWiki. I think in the long run this isn't going to be a feasible 
> approach unless all you want to do is write your notes and export them 
> outside of TiddlyWiki. Also note that while MD syntax does support 
> multiline content in lists, TW markup does not ( at least not cleanly).
>
> As an aside, I think something like this unfulfilled experiment would suit 
> your use case from what I know of it:
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/drA7IEx2Ng0/m/67pyPkgKBgAJ
> Before you ask, no plans to take that any further, in part due to the 
> reasons outlined above.
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
>

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[tw5] Node.js modification saved... until I restart the server

[David SZERMAN]

Hello,

I have just installed Tiddlywiki ; everything works fine. When i connect 
from different browsers, I can see my changes (saved in the cache) but when 
I restart the server, everything is lost (not saved in the file system 
while the plugin is activated).

Any idea what could happen ?

Thanks

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[tw5] Re: NoteTaking in Streams

[Saq Imtiaz]

Hi Walt, 

Hopefully you will get input from people actually using Streams as to what 
works for them.

One of the things I would dearly like to know is how many people are 
actually using Streams on a regular basis, and what their workflow looks 
like. My feeling is its a very small handful and I'll admit that probably 
influences how much time I devote to working on Streams.
  

> But then: the result is a slew of tiddlers with long numeric IDs that, tho 
> nicely presented in the edit window as a clean hierarchal outline, cannot 
> be either flattened into a single tiddler, nor exported or even copy/pasted 
> into the tiddler body via any built-in affordance.  I've been going the 
> copy/paste way so far, but it's a hard road to travel, given any 
> significant length and/or complexity to your outline. 
>

Have you considered any of the methods outlined here?
 https://saqimtiaz.github.io/streams/#Working%20with%20streams%20tiddlers

Now: plugin author Saq said essentially 
>  
> that the only reason he hasn't built in any such affordance is that he 
>
doesn't know what users want: a simple concatenation of the stream? a 
> hierarchial structure in some form?
>

It's a bit more than that. Each node in a stream is a tiddler and can have 
any content. Streams was originally envisioned not just for rapid note 
taking but also for the ability to divide your text into smaller tiddlers 
as you write/edit. As such it is difficult to envisage a single export 
format that would work for everyone's content.  However using the 
approaches outlined in the link above you can easily set up your own 
markdown export.

 

> For me, the best (and simplest?) solution would be to convert the stream 
> to Markdown: each node being just a line of text preceded by a number of 
> asterisks (1->any) to reflect its level in the hierarchy.  
>

The issue is that MD tiddlers will always be second class citizens in 
TiddlyWiki. I think in the long run this isn't going to be a feasible 
approach unless all you want to do is write your notes and export them 
outside of TiddlyWiki. Also note that while MD syntax does support 
multiline content in lists, TW markup does not ( at least not cleanly).

As an aside, I think something like this unfulfilled experiment would suit 
your use case from what I know of it:
https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/drA7IEx2Ng0/m/67pyPkgKBgAJ
Before you ask, no plans to take that any further, in part due to the 
reasons outlined above.

Cheers,
Saq

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[tw5] NoteTaking in Streams

[ludwa6]

Picking up where this earlier thread 
 left off, i am 
following Saq's advice 
 to 
start another conversation on the more specific question of HOW best to use 
-and perhaps adapt- the Streams plugin, to make TW into a great tool for 
not only "intertwingly" NoteTaking (which it certainly is), but also great 
for agile NoteTaking, as defined in aforementioned thread. 

Having just installed the plugin (Streams 0.2.18) in my TiddlyDesktop 
instance, i am already fairly drunk on the power of having what feels like 
a full-fledged outliner *within* a tiddler, where i can bang out a stream 
of bullet points, promote & demote, indent & outdent, etc... All as fast as 
i can type the keystrokes, or drag on mobile. 

But then: the result is a slew of tiddlers with long numeric IDs that, tho 
nicely presented in the edit window as a clean hierarchal outline, cannot 
be either flattened into a single tiddler, nor exported or even copy/pasted 
into the tiddler body via any built-in affordance.  I've been going the 
copy/paste way so far, but it's a hard road to travel, given any 
significant length and/or complexity to your outline. 

Now: plugin author Saq said essentially 
 that 
the only reason he hasn't built in any such affordance is that he doesn't 
know what users want: a simple concatenation of the stream? a hierarchial 
structure in some form? 

For me, the best (and simplest?) solution would be to convert the stream to 
Markdown: each node being just a line of text preceded by a number of 
asterisks (1->any) to reflect its level in the hierarchy.  This could be 
interpreted & displayed correctly in any tiddler that is formatted 
Markdown; TW has affordances for this -as does Github (.md is default 
format of ReadMe files there) and most web publishing & word processing 
apps you can find these days.  Indeed, Saq indicated 
 that 
a  .md<->.tid converter would be no big deal (for him, at least :-) to 
create; this would enable not only "flattening" of a Stream in such manner, 
but also importing a .md file as presentable tiddler content.  Now THAT 
would be cool, IMHO... But that's just me, so far.

SO this is to ask all of you with any experience of Streams plugin: Can you 
relate to the need i am expressing?  Or have you found a good way "flatten" 
your streams, and integrate your Streams content properly into a TW 
instance?  If so, anything you might care to share in terms of workflow 
and/or code would be most appreciated.

NB: I did learn in the course of that earlier thread about this Streams-to-text 
solution  (thanks @Si for the pointer), but Saq 
warned  
that the plugin (actually a microAddOn/Mod, according to author Jan) is not 
compatible with current version of Streams as it stands, though he believes 
that Jan is working on it.  So i'm holding off on installing that for now, 
but would love to hear any news or user reports about that.

/walt

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[Saq Imtiaz]

It is pretty cool that Yunohost has TW on node.js as an application they 
support.

Have a look 
at 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#WebServer%20Basic%20Authentication:%5B%5BWebServer%20Basic%20Authentication%5D%5D%20%5B%5BWebServer%20Parameter%3A%20credentials%5D%5D%20%5B%5BWebServer%20Parameter%3A%20password%5D%5D

You likely need to change the command used to start the node.js sever to 
use authentication.

Also 
see: 
https://github.com/YunoHost-Apps/tiddlywiki_ynh/blob/master/manifest.json#L51

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 12:10:56 PM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks ; actually, it is on the web / debian / Yunohost...
>
> Does the "set password" button is the same for the single file and the 
> node server ?
>
> Le jeudi 24 juin 2021 à 11:42:04 UTC+2, PMario a écrit :
>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:05:04 AM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> i have Tiddlywiki on Node.js ; I was used to the standalone file in which 
>>> I set up a password.
>>>
>>
>> The password you set for the stand-alone wiki is used to encrypt the 
>> whole wiki, when it is saved. So nobody can read it without the password.
>>  
>> The password you set for a node-js server is a password to access the 
>> server. It has nothing to do with encryption. 
>>
>> As far as I know, it's not possible to encrypt nodejs wikis atm.
>>
>> Do you face the same kind of issue ? Any workaround ?
>>>
>>
>> Depending on the OS you use, you may save your data on an encrypted 
>> drive, which is mounted when you log in. So the OS can handle encryption 
>> for you, if you need it. 
>>
>> -mario
>>  
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[PMario]

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:58:52 PM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Actually, for me it was a password thing, not necessary an encryption 
> topic. My objective is to protect by password my wiki  :-)
>

But it is exactly that. If you ever forget your password, the content is 
gone. There is no known mechanism to restore it. 

--

If you "only" want to password protect the access to the wiki, a "basic 
auth" server side will be enough. ... Then have a closer look at: 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#WebServer%20Parameter%3A%20password:%5B%5BWebServer%20Parameter%3A%20password%5D%5D%20%5B%5BWebServer%20Basic%20Authentication%5D%5D%20%5B%5BWebServer%20Authorization%5D%5D%20ListenCommand%20NamedCommandParameters

-mario

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[David SZERMAN]

Actually, for me it was a password thing, not necessary an encryption 
topic. My objective is to protect by password my wiki  :-)

Le jeudi 24 juin 2021 à 13:54:15 UTC+2, PMario a écrit :

> I did create an issue: 
> https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/issues/32
> -m
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:26:35 PM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:11:06 PM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>>
>> I don't know, it the "single tiddler encryption plugin" works with a 
>>> nodejs server. I didn't test it. You may have a look at: 
>>> https://danielorodriguez.com/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/ ... Only needed 
>>> if you need encryption. 
>>>
>>
>> It works with a node-js server BUT it doesn't make much sense. .. Because 
>> as soon as you decrypt a tiddler in the browser, it will be written in 
>> plain text to the server. 
>>
>> If you encrypt the tiddler again, it will be encrypted and written to the 
>> server. The old tiddler would be deleted, but still it has been written in 
>> plain text already. ... So you need to decide if this is good enough for 
>> you. 
>>
>> For me it wouldn't be good enough, because the chances that plain text is 
>> kept on the server by accident is way to high.  But that's just me ;)
>>
>> It may be possible to modify the plugin in a way, that decrypted tiddlers 
>> are only kept in the browser memory as a "$:/temp/xxx" tiddler. So it 
>> wouldn't be sent to the server. .. You would need to ask Danielo, the 
>> author of the plugin, if he still does some development. 
>>
>> You can contact him at: 
>> https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/issues
>>
>> -mario
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[PMario]

I did create an issue: 
https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/issues/32
-m

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:26:35 PM UTC+2 PMario wrote:

> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:11:06 PM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>
> I don't know, it the "single tiddler encryption plugin" works with a 
>> nodejs server. I didn't test it. You may have a look at: 
>> https://danielorodriguez.com/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/ ... Only needed 
>> if you need encryption. 
>>
>
> It works with a node-js server BUT it doesn't make much sense. .. Because 
> as soon as you decrypt a tiddler in the browser, it will be written in 
> plain text to the server. 
>
> If you encrypt the tiddler again, it will be encrypted and written to the 
> server. The old tiddler would be deleted, but still it has been written in 
> plain text already. ... So you need to decide if this is good enough for 
> you. 
>
> For me it wouldn't be good enough, because the chances that plain text is 
> kept on the server by accident is way to high.  But that's just me ;)
>
> It may be possible to modify the plugin in a way, that decrypted tiddlers 
> are only kept in the browser memory as a "$:/temp/xxx" tiddler. So it 
> wouldn't be sent to the server. .. You would need to ask Danielo, the 
> author of the plugin, if he still does some development. 
>
> You can contact him at: 
> https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/issues
>
> -mario
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Best ways to use TiddlyWiki on a Chromebook?

[TiddlyTweeter]

 Mark S. wrote:

> Newer chromebooks are supposed to be able to use Android apps, so might be 
> able to use Tiddloid/Quinoid to connect to GDrive.


 Certainly they can.

TT

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[PMario]

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:11:06 PM UTC+2 PMario wrote:

I don't know, it the "single tiddler encryption plugin" works with a nodejs 
> server. I didn't test it. You may have a look at: 
> https://danielorodriguez.com/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/ ... Only needed if 
> you need encryption. 
>

It works with a node-js server BUT it doesn't make much sense. .. Because 
as soon as you decrypt a tiddler in the browser, it will be written in 
plain text to the server. 

If you encrypt the tiddler again, it will be encrypted and written to the 
server. The old tiddler would be deleted, but still it has been written in 
plain text already. ... So you need to decide if this is good enough for 
you. 

For me it wouldn't be good enough, because the chances that plain text is 
kept on the server by accident is way to high.  But that's just me ;)

It may be possible to modify the plugin in a way, that decrypted tiddlers 
are only kept in the browser memory as a "$:/temp/xxx" tiddler. So it 
wouldn't be sent to the server. .. You would need to ask Danielo, the 
author of the plugin, if he still does some development. 

You can contact him at: 
https://github.com/danielo515/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/issues

-mario

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[tw5] Re: Best ways to use TiddlyWiki on a Chromebook?

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy,

Late to the party but Chromebooks are good.

I got a Lenevo dual recently (it can be used as a pure tablet, OR  with a 
keyboard with touchpad). I will add a pen later.

They good for TW since it is browser based and browsers work off the shelf 
as simple on Android as anywhere else.

In terms of application, why I need it, FYI, I'll be using TW in  a browser 
on it in kiosk mode (hiding most of the browser interface) for a project 
for neurological experiments (human adaptation to visual inversion) for the 
University of Udine.

Advantages: A major one is COST. They are priced in a range where its  
possible to equip more than one user.-

Just saying
TT

On Saturday, 10 April 2021 at 15:55:35 UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> Does anyone here use TiddlyWiki on a Chromebook?
>
> A friend with a Chromebook wants to experiment with TiddlyWiki, and so I'd 
> be interested in any feedback on the best of the available options. They'd 
> like to keep a private notes file in Dropbox or Google Drive. Ordinarily, 
> I'd recommend TiddlyDesktop and/or Quine, but they obviously don't work in 
> this case.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> --
> Jeremy Ruston
> jer...@jermolene.com
> https://jermolene.com

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[PMario]

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 12:10:56 PM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks ; actually, it is on the web / debian / Yunohost...


OK. Then I don't know how this could be solved on the server level. .. I 
don't know the software, but you could have a look at the docs about 
encryption. ... 
 

> Does the "set password" button is the same for the single file and the 
> node server ?
>

You are right. ...BUT node-js server has no encryption built in and the 
single-page wiki only allows to encrypt everything or nothing. 

I don't know, it the "single tiddler encryption plugin" works with a nodejs 
server. I didn't test it. You may have a look at: 
https://danielorodriguez.com/TW5-EncryptTiddlerPlugin/ ... Only needed if 
you need encryption. 

-mario


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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[David SZERMAN]

Thanks ; actually, it is on the web / debian / Yunohost...

Does the "set password" button is the same for the single file and the node 
server ?

Le jeudi 24 juin 2021 à 11:42:04 UTC+2, PMario a écrit :

> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:05:04 AM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> i have Tiddlywiki on Node.js ; I was used to the standalone file in which 
>> I set up a password.
>>
>
> The password you set for the stand-alone wiki is used to encrypt the whole 
> wiki, when it is saved. So nobody can read it without the password.
>  
> The password you set for a node-js server is a password to access the 
> server. It has nothing to do with encryption. 
>
> As far as I know, it's not possible to encrypt nodejs wikis atm.
>
> Do you face the same kind of issue ? Any workaround ?
>>
>
> Depending on the OS you use, you may save your data on an encrypted drive, 
> which is mounted when you log in. So the OS can handle encryption for you, 
> if you need it. 
>
> -mario
>  
>

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[tw5] Re: Set password on Node.js

[PMario]

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:05:04 AM UTC+2 szd...@gmail.com wrote:

i have Tiddlywiki on Node.js ; I was used to the standalone file in which I 
> set up a password.
>

The password you set for the stand-alone wiki is used to encrypt the whole 
wiki, when it is saved. So nobody can read it without the password.
 
The password you set for a node-js server is a password to access the 
server. It has nothing to do with encryption. 

As far as I know, it's not possible to encrypt nodejs wikis atm.

Do you face the same kind of issue ? Any workaround ?
>

Depending on the OS you use, you may save your data on an encrypted drive, 
which is mounted when you log in. So the OS can handle encryption for you, 
if you need it. 

-mario
 

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[tw5] Re: HTML like forms saving information in data tiddler

[TiddlyTweeter]

Thanks TW Tones for posting that code ...

It is useful.

Best wishes
TT

On Tuesday, 22 June 2021 at 01:39:03 UTC+2 TW Tones wrote:

> TT,
>
> At least with the data dictionary format key:value you can parse the data 
> tiddler and extract each row using [[datatiddler]get[text]spitregexp[\n]] 
> and retain the order. There is a similar method for JSON to parse and 
> extract titles only which I used to list the contents of the history 
> tiddler - 
>
> Here is a partial snipit of listing the contents of the history tiddler, a 
> json of tiddler titles, pasted in a tiddler tagged for the sidebar tabs you 
> could call this a session history tab.
>
> \define title-string() "title": "
> \define end-title() "
> \define hasdrafts() {{{ [list[$:/StoryList]get[draft.of]] }}}
>
> <$list 
> filter="[{$:/HistoryList}splitsplitbeforeremovesuffixreverse[]is[tiddler]limit[20]]">
><$wikify name=hasdrafts text="""<>""">
><$list filter="[all[current]] -[subfilter]">
><>  <$link/>
><>
>
>
> 
>
> The buttons are not defined.
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Monday, 21 June 2021 at 20:37:53 UTC+10 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> Small query; since this thread has *experts* involved :-)
>>
>> HOW  do I NOT SORT a data dictionary?
>>
>> I use dictionaries a lot for some tasks. I'd like to render the following 
>> exactly in the order of the dictionary records. 
>> But it all goes alpha on default.
>>
>>Bank - Fideuram : 
>> https://www.fideuramonline.it/script/ServiceLogin/ib/login 
>>Bank - Deutsche : https://lamiabanca.db.com/apigw/wb/login 
>>Bank - NatWest : https://DUMMY.html 
>>Bank - PayPal : https://www.paypal.com/it 
>>Amazon - IT : https://www.amazon.it 
>>Amazon - UK : https://www.amazon.co.uk 
>>Amazon - USA : https://www.amazon.com 
>>Amazon - DE : https://www.amazon.de 
>>Amazon - FR : https://www.amazon.fr
>>
>> In render Amazon goes top, Bank after. That is NOT what I need!
>>
>> *   Q: Is there any way to present dictionary entries ordered exactly 
>> as entered?*
>>
>> Just asking! Trying to understand this ...
>> TT
>> On Monday, 21 June 2021 at 12:13:18 UTC+2 atulg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> *Thanks Eric,  *
>>> Worked like a charm. 
>>> What other tags (tag="textarea") can we use? 
>>> I will try using textbox/checkbox/date etc. 
>>> *AG*
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 2:36:54 PM UTC+5:30 Eric Shulman wrote:
>>>
 On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 1:19:40 AM UTC-7 atulg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> How can I make an html form in a tiddler, and save the values entered 
>> in the form, into a data tiddler? 
>>
>
 My first reply was assuming that you wanted to save the input into a 
 field in the *current* tiddler.
 However, upon re-reading your question, I see that you want to save the 
 values "into a data tiddler"

 This is actually quite simple:
 <$edit-text tiddler="sometiddler" index="someindex" tag="textarea" 
 class="tc-edit-texteditor"/>

 Notes:
 * The target tiddler "sometiddler" will be saved with 
 type="application/json" and will contain
 * any newlines you enter will be automatically encoded as \n
 * any quotes you enter will be automatically encoded as \"

 enjoy,
 -e

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Is there a way to make the sorttable.js script work in a static HTML Tiddlywiki exported file?

[TiddlyTweeter]

kosmo...

Thanks for posting that and the subsequent post too! It is useful.

Best wishes
TT

On Monday, 21 June 2021 at 07:19:07 UTC+2 kosmo...@gmail.com wrote:

> The script works fine in the dynamic TiddlyWiki when set up as described 
> in these posts:
>
>
> https://feeblenerd.blogspot.com/2019/09/tiddlywiki-sortable-static-tables.html
>
> https://old.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/comments/g5agj0/fastest_way_to_custom_javascript/fo459dk/
>
> But it does not function when exported to static HTML. The tiddler where 
> the script is stored is rendered between  tages, making it 
> ineffective. (It is stored as type: application/javascript; 
> module-type: widget, and does not have a tag). I would prefer it as an 
> internal file, but if that's not possible, I will leave it be.
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Artwork for v5.2.0

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao springer

Yeah. It is interesting. I saw it as an arrow and only later saw it as the 
bottom of "W". :-)

Visually the issue is is you had a band at the bottom that abuts the 
letters that creates a fictive impression. 
A small gap under the letters before the bottom-band would likely solve the 
issue too?

Just a comment
TT

On Tuesday, 22 June 2021 at 00:00:13 UTC+2 springer wrote:

> TT, it did sot occur to me that the mask on the tv letters could look like 
> an arrow. Below is a variant that shifts that effect: (at the expense of 
> somewhat irregular letter-forms)...
>
> -Springer
>
> [image: dusk-field-alt.png],
>
> On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 10:51:07 AM UTC-4 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> springer wrote:
>>
>>> Since it's been a week, it may be worth seeing where things stand with 
>>> graphic options:
>>>
>>> https://tw-logo-contest.tiddlyhost.com/
>>>
>>
>> Small comment  on your gallery of 4 ...
>>
>> Best
>> TT
>>
>>  [image: Screenshot 2021-06-21 164635.jpg]
>>
>

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[tw5] Sync node.js on the web with Android

[David SZERMAN]

Hello,

I installed Tiddlywiki on node.js on the web. I would like to be able to 
access the wiki on my android phone even if offline (sync process ?)

i was used to use tiddloid when i was offline with single file synced via 
pcloud but is there the same kind of process with node.js ?

Thanks

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[tw5] Set password on Node.js

[David SZERMAN]

Hello,

i have Tiddlywiki on Node.js ; I was used to the standalone file in which I 
set up a password.

i want to do the same on node.js but it seems not to be saved.

Do you face the same kind of issue ? Any workaround ?

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki SO cool ...

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao cj.v ...

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I basically agree with most everything you wrote.

One of the slightly odd things with TiddlyWiki is we got masses of great 
wikis about doing code in TiddlyWiki easily available.
BUT very few listed wikis of end-product applications.
That is likely much to do with fact TW design eschews being tracked by 
Google et al. 
Its sad we can't easily find wikis "in the wild." I don't actually know 
what has been made!
That is an impediment to being able to do a decent SHOWCASE of variant uses 
and applications suited to specific end purposes (other than coding TW for 
the pleasure of it) :-(

Best wishes
TT

On Wednesday, 23 June 2021 at 16:47:43 UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:

> Although I'm no fan of social media (Twitter, Instagram, Tik Tok, etc. 
> etc.), my answer would be YouTube, Blogs and all social media options.
>
> Via titles that equal use cases, and not titles about the product (well, 
> with loads of metadata some somebody looking for TiddlyWiki, or TW, can 
> find these social media jewels.)
>
> So draw folk to the videos and such via problems that need to be solved, 
> or approaches to doing certain things.
>
> For example, thinking of the discussion about notetaking and notemaking.
>
> Instead of a social media something like "Notetaking with TiddlyWiki", 
> draw folk in with something like "Agile Notetaking" (well, some title that 
> draws folk, in the spirit of whatever draws people to viral videos.)
>
> So flood the media with marketing not of the product itself, but of the 
> full breadth and depth of solutions that coincidentally are handled with 
> TiddlyWiki align with whatever plugins when they apply.
>
> As another example, my Le P'tit Aurèle 
>  project.  If I were to (when the 
> project is ready) blitz social media with stuff related to that project, it 
> would all be with titles that fall under an umbrella of "Constructing 
> Comprehensive yet User-Friendly Multilingual Dictionaries"  (well, 
> something sexier that can go "viral").  And every "post" to whatever social 
> media would have a "by the way, this was built with TiddlyWiki."
>
> If there are a ridiculous number of videos out there on how to do 
> real-world good stuff and they all of the things done happen to be done 
> with TiddlyWiki, I think that would grab some attention.
>
> Something like that ...
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 6:15 AM TiddlyTweeter  wrote:
>
>> Ciao cj.v...
>>
>> Yeah. In the practicalities of dealing with code I think it is easy to 
>> forget/set-aside certain things,
>>
>> The FREEDOM TW brings to dealing with information design and use is not 
>> shouted enough.
>>
>> I'd love if the tool were more widely used. 
>> I'm thinking a bit here out loud.
>>
>> How can we communicate better to potential end users its fundamental 
>> benefits?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>> On Wednesday, 23 June 2021 at 03:47:15 UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> That would be a perfect theme song for TiddlyWiki.  Freedom for sure !
>>>
>>> I find Jon Batiste one of the coolest guys.  Wonderfully talented and 
>>> seems like a genuinely awesome human being.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 6:04:50 PM UTC-3 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
 https://youtu.be/3YHVC1DcHmo

 Oh yeah
 TT

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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Is List Grouping Using Tags or Tiddler Fields Possible?

[PMario]

If you want to group something you'll need real tiddlers. Otherwise you 
will get the problems you describe.. 

You may be interested in the tocP macro which allows you to create tocs 
based on fields. The default is the parent field. But it can be any field 
name.  BUT you still need tiddlers

https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/tocP/

-m

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