[tw5] Re: Bob and keystrokes

[Ed Heil]

I haven't had a chance to test it live with multiple people using the wiki 
(which is where problems seem to arise) but "click to edit this value in a 
temp tiddler and save to the real tiddler" stuff I've made seems to work so 
far so theoretically I'm on the right track!


On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 1:38:01 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> Did you test it with 1 field first?
> -m
>
> On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 4:27:39 AM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Tones.  I will be interested to hear it when you are ready to 
>> make your plans public.
>>
>> I've been working on the "edit in a temp tiddler" thing and made some big 
>> ugly macros that do the job swimmingly.  I should be able to get the app 
>> converted over to using temp tiddlers for editing, in general, soon.
>>
>> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 3:43:11 AM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:
>>
>>> Ed,
>>> A long answer is there are ways to edit the current tiddler, even 
>>> without a temp tiddler. I am building a solution which does this now, it 
>>> involves a little gymnastics and is hard to explain with too many different 
>>> aspects to it. I will eventually publish something. 
>>>
>>> One handy way is to have a tiddler dedicated to editing other tiddlers. 
>>> In there you select the tiddler you want to edit, and all your editing 
>>> takes place on the not visible selected tiddler.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tones
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 23:25:01 UTC+10 Ed Heil wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is all great info, and clearly what I need to do.  I didn't 
>>>> realize that there was special behavior for $:/temp tiddlers with respect 
>>>> to saving.  (The only mention I can find on tiddlywiki.com is in 
>>>> "Naming of System Tiddlers" which I thought was just about naming 
>>>> conventions, not names which trigger special behavior.)  Now I've got to 
>>>> figure out whether it's doable to fix my app piecemeal -- which has tons 
>>>> of 
>>>> editing fields which act directly on the tiddler they're on -- or whether 
>>>> I 
>>>> need to somehow start over with a temp-tiddler-based editing flow.  Ah 
>>>> well.  You live and learn.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for pointing me at $:/temp.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:09:13 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> uups forgot something, 
>>>>> Clicking the [OK] button will work the other way around. Clone temp -> 
>>>>> form and delete the temp. 
>>>>> The edittext-widgets tiddler parameter will need to be a variable. ... 
>>>>> depending on which tiddler is active atm. form or temp
>>>>> -m
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 8:06:28 AM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 4:29:30 AM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, TW, PMario.   What defines a temporary tiddler for these 
>>>>>>> purposes?  Being under $:/temp/ ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. ... It depends how your form looks like and how the tiddler you 
>>>>>> need looks like. I would define a view-mode for the form, where the edit 
>>>>>> fields are not active, but show the content of the "form tiddler".  This 
>>>>>> can be done with the "disabled" parameter since 5.1.23. ... 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A button eg: [Config] will copy the "form tiddler" into the "temp 
>>>>>> tiddler". If the temp tiddler exists, the "disabled" state will be 
>>>>>> switched 
>>>>>> to "no" and the values can be changed. [OK] [Cancel] buttons that 
>>>>>> replaces 
>>>>>> the [Config] button will be shown. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cloning the "form tiddler" can be done with ActionCreateTiddlerWidget, 
>>>>>> which has $template and $overwrite params since 5.1.22
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A disabled filter can look like this: disabled={{{ 
>>>>>> [[$:/temp/form]is[tiddler]then[no]else[yes]] }}}  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hope that helps
>>>>>> -mario
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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[tw5] Re: Bob and keystrokes

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, Tones.  I will be interested to hear it when you are ready to make 
your plans public.

I've been working on the "edit in a temp tiddler" thing and made some big 
ugly macros that do the job swimmingly.  I should be able to get the app 
converted over to using temp tiddlers for editing, in general, soon.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 3:43:11 AM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:

> Ed,
> A long answer is there are ways to edit the current tiddler, even without 
> a temp tiddler. I am building a solution which does this now, it involves a 
> little gymnastics and is hard to explain with too many different aspects to 
> it. I will eventually publish something. 
>
> One handy way is to have a tiddler dedicated to editing other tiddlers. In 
> there you select the tiddler you want to edit, and all your editing takes 
> place on the not visible selected tiddler.
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
> On Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 23:25:01 UTC+10 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>> This is all great info, and clearly what I need to do.  I didn't realize 
>> that there was special behavior for $:/temp tiddlers with respect to 
>> saving.  (The only mention I can find on tiddlywiki.com is in "Naming of 
>> System Tiddlers" which I thought was just about naming conventions, not 
>> names which trigger special behavior.)  Now I've got to figure out whether 
>> it's doable to fix my app piecemeal -- which has tons of editing fields 
>> which act directly on the tiddler they're on -- or whether I need to 
>> somehow start over with a temp-tiddler-based editing flow.  Ah well.  You 
>> live and learn.
>>
>> Thanks again for pointing me at $:/temp.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:09:13 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:
>>
>>> uups forgot something, 
>>> Clicking the [OK] button will work the other way around. Clone temp -> 
>>> form and delete the temp. 
>>> The edittext-widgets tiddler parameter will need to be a variable. ... 
>>> depending on which tiddler is active atm. form or temp
>>> -m
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 8:06:28 AM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 4:29:30 AM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, TW, PMario.   What defines a temporary tiddler for these 
>>>>> purposes?  Being under $:/temp/ ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes. ... It depends how your form looks like and how the tiddler you 
>>>> need looks like. I would define a view-mode for the form, where the edit 
>>>> fields are not active, but show the content of the "form tiddler".  This 
>>>> can be done with the "disabled" parameter since 5.1.23. ... 
>>>>
>>>> A button eg: [Config] will copy the "form tiddler" into the "temp 
>>>> tiddler". If the temp tiddler exists, the "disabled" state will be 
>>>> switched 
>>>> to "no" and the values can be changed. [OK] [Cancel] buttons that replaces 
>>>> the [Config] button will be shown. 
>>>>
>>>> Cloning the "form tiddler" can be done with ActionCreateTiddlerWidget, 
>>>> which has $template and $overwrite params since 5.1.22
>>>>
>>>> A disabled filter can look like this: disabled={{{ 
>>>> [[$:/temp/form]is[tiddler]then[no]else[yes]] }}}  
>>>>
>>>> hope that helps
>>>> -mario
>>>>
>>>>

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[tw5] Re: Bob and keystrokes

[Ed Heil]

This is all great info, and clearly what I need to do.  I didn't realize 
that there was special behavior for $:/temp tiddlers with respect to 
saving.  (The only mention I can find on tiddlywiki.com is in "Naming of 
System Tiddlers" which I thought was just about naming conventions, not 
names which trigger special behavior.)  Now I've got to figure out whether 
it's doable to fix my app piecemeal -- which has tons of editing fields 
which act directly on the tiddler they're on -- or whether I need to 
somehow start over with a temp-tiddler-based editing flow.  Ah well.  You 
live and learn.

Thanks again for pointing me at $:/temp.


On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 2:09:13 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> uups forgot something, 
> Clicking the [OK] button will work the other way around. Clone temp -> 
> form and delete the temp. 
> The edittext-widgets tiddler parameter will need to be a variable. ... 
> depending on which tiddler is active atm. form or temp
> -m
>
> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 8:06:28 AM UTC+2 PMario wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 4:29:30 AM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, TW, PMario.   What defines a temporary tiddler for these 
>>> purposes?  Being under $:/temp/ ?
>>>
>>
>> Yes. ... It depends how your form looks like and how the tiddler you need 
>> looks like. I would define a view-mode for the form, where the edit fields 
>> are not active, but show the content of the "form tiddler".  This can be 
>> done with the "disabled" parameter since 5.1.23. ... 
>>
>> A button eg: [Config] will copy the "form tiddler" into the "temp 
>> tiddler". If the temp tiddler exists, the "disabled" state will be switched 
>> to "no" and the values can be changed. [OK] [Cancel] buttons that replaces 
>> the [Config] button will be shown. 
>>
>> Cloning the "form tiddler" can be done with ActionCreateTiddlerWidget, 
>> which has $template and $overwrite params since 5.1.22
>>
>> A disabled filter can look like this: disabled={{{ 
>> [[$:/temp/form]is[tiddler]then[no]else[yes]] }}}  
>>
>> hope that helps
>> -mario
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Bob and keystrokes

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, TW, PMario.   What defines a temporary tiddler for these purposes?  
Being under $:/temp/ ?


On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 9:23:48 PM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> Hi Ed,
> You can create a form, that uses a temporary tiddler. Those tiddlers are 
> not synced. Once your values are written you can hit a button, that copies 
> the temp values to the real values. --> done
> -mario
>

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[tw5] Bob and keystrokes

[Ed Heil]

I've got a wiki going on where I keep track of information for a tabletop 
roleplaying game.  I've got it set up with Bob so everyone can see it at 
once.  It's pretty great.

One thing that I'm finding is that sometimes Bob doesn't seem to pick up 
all the keystrokes it's being sent in edit text boxes.  For example, I have 
a box where you can type in a number and then hit a button, and that number 
will be added to an existing value somewhere.  Somebody might type 100 and 
hit the button, but then only 10 will be added to the other value.  It's as 
if one of the keystrokes never made it to the server and back.

Of course, having every keystroke in this given edit text box get sent to 
the server is how TW/Bob works, but it seems like it's causing more trouble 
than it's worth.  I'm wondering if there's anything I could be doing to 
make this simpler.  Like, if it were a regular form on a normal page, you 
could type all you wanted in it and nothing would go to the server unless 
you submitted it.  So there would be no way what was in the box could get 
"out of sync" with what was on the server.  That's not how TW works -- 
everything typed in an input field immediately affects the TW, and in a Bob 
context, it immediately affects the state of the app as known to Node on 
the server.  But...  I wonder if there's a way around this problem.

It seems like by typing very slowly and carefully the problem is minimized, 
but I'd love it if there's a way to actually solve it.

I think (not sure) the problem is worse when multiple people are looking at 
the wiki at once so there's more to update.

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[tw5] Re: Create tiddler with tags from variable

[Ed Heil]

Just a note -- there is a straightforward way to get tiddler titles 
automatically bracketed, which I discovered eventually.

<$set name="myTags" filter=" [] [[OtherTag]]">
<$action-createtiddler $base="MyBase" tags=<> />


A SetWidget with "Filtered List Variable Assignment" automatically 
double-brackets items in the list provided to it.

https://tiddlywiki.com/#SetWidget



On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 10:11:47 PM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:

> I will just add if you \define something() and leave it empty it will 
> break things
>
> Tones
> On Saturday, 5 June 2021 at 02:49:38 UTC+10 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>> Mat's initial suggestion worked great.  I didn't need this to appear 
>> everywhere, or in edit mode.  Just in a certain class of tiddlers which are 
>> already being displayed through a special template (which is where this 
>> button will appear).
>>
>> Thanks, everyone!
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Locked Tiddlers in Bob

[Ed Heil]

Oh, thanks!  I'd hoped there was a trick, and should have known there'd be 
a tiddler for it somewhere :)

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 6:09:39 PM UTC-4 joshua@gmail.com wrote:

> Delete the `$:/state/Bob/EditingTiddlers` tid.
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 10:59:50 AM UTC-7 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>>
>> Another Bob-related question --
>>
>> I've had it more than once that I've lost a browser tab for one reason or 
>> another while it was editing a tiddler in a Bob-served wiki. At that point, 
>> it's locked, since the tab that was editing it is gone, and it's liable to 
>> stay locked for a long time unless I ssh in to the server and restart it.
>>
>> I'm wondering if there's any way to "steal" a tiddler away from the 
>> now-nonexistent editing session, or indeed do anything short of restarting 
>> the server to free it up again?
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Locked Tiddlers in Bob

[Ed Heil]

Another Bob-related question --

I've had it more than once that I've lost a browser tab for one reason or 
another while it was editing a tiddler in a Bob-served wiki. At that point, 
it's locked, since the tab that was editing it is gone, and it's liable to 
stay locked for a long time unless I ssh in to the server and restart it.

I'm wondering if there's any way to "steal" a tiddler away from the 
now-nonexistent editing session, or indeed do anything short of restarting 
the server to free it up again?


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[tw5] Re: Fields vs Dictionary vs JSON

[Ed Heil]

It's a template that does a lot of calculation based on the elements of 
that data tiddler... and which has edit fields for parts of the data 
tiddler.  I've observed that using the data tiddler *with bob* there seem 
to be issues with the back end "keeping up with" people typing in edit 
fields, keystroke by keystroke.  Switching to regular fields in a regular 
tiddler as a data store seems like it may have fixed this (fingers crossed!)


On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 2:30:37 PM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 2:56:15 PM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
> ...
>
>> Ok, this is potentially huge.  I've got a very large template which 
>> displays and manipulates the data from a data tiddler in complex ways, and 
>> I'm running this on Bob, so responsiveness is a big deal.  If I can get a 
>> speed bonus by going with fields...  that means a lot. 
>>
>
> If it's only 1 template with 1 open tiddler, there won't be a big 
> difference. .. BUT if there are a lot of visible elements that depend on 
> data from the data-tiddler it does matter. .. So as long as it is only a 
> view *visible* elements you are good. 
>
> -mario
>

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[tw5] Re: Fields vs Dictionary vs JSON

[Ed Heil]

This has been a very informative thread, folks -- always enjoy hearing 
about big picture decisions in TW.

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 2:42:12 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

>
> The biggest disadvantage for data-tiddlers is, that if you add / change or 
> remove a value from a data-tiddler all *visible* tiddlers that have a 
> connection to this tiddler need to be updated, even if the index, that is 
> changed doesn't correspond to those tiddlers. .. So there is a potential 
> for a performance hit, if it's done wrong.
>
>
Ok, this is potentially huge.  I've got a very large template which 
displays and manipulates the data from a data tiddler in complex ways, and 
I'm running this on Bob, so responsiveness is a big deal.  If I can get a 
speed bonus by going with fields...  that means a lot. 

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[tw5] Fields vs Dictionary vs JSON

[Ed Heil]

Right now I'm working on a project where a number of tiddlers are just 
little chunks of key-value data.  I'm putting them in JSONTiddlers, because 
that seems to be what tiddlers turn into naturally when I start setting 
data on their indices.  

I just noticed that there's a nice thing available for tiddlers which are 
collections of *fields* as opposed to using indices, and that's:

[field:foo] which gives you all the tiddlers whose foo field is equal 
to the value of the variable "bar".  There's not a simple equivalent with 
indices as far as I know, you have to cobble together a filter with 
[filter[]] or the new :filter prefix.

Obviously with fields you're more limited in the names of keys -- keys can 
be any string in data tiddlers, but only lowercase, "-", "_", and "." for 
fields. And obviously there are reserved names for fields, like "text", 
that are not reserved for data tiddlers. 

I *think* I made the right choice going with a data tiddler for my little 
blobs of data, but that nice [field[]] filter operator made me wonder.

Just wanted to throw the question open to the community:  If you've used 
tiddlers as blobs of key-value data, and made the choice between using the 
fields in a normal tiddler, and using a data tiddler, what considerations 
factored into your decision?  Do you have any rules of thumb?

I'm not asking because of a particular decision I need to make, I'm more 
curious about the general question.

(Oh, secondarily: any reason to choose one or the other of Dictionary vs 
JSON?  They seem to do pretty much the same job to me.)

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: Simple authentication options for Bob

[Ed Heil]

Thanks for all these suggestions!

On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 1:06:40 PM UTC-4 scot wrote:

> Hi Ed,
> not sure if you've seen this link on  TiddlyWikiLinks 
>  or if it's relevant to your setup.
>
> "Add Login to a Node.js App with Cloudflare Argo Tunnels". Detailed 
> explanation of setting up TiddlyWiki 
>  in a Digital Ocean 
> droplet, with a CloudFlare  
> Argo tunnel providing secure publishing to a domain with built-in 
> authentication 
>
> https://mydigitalmark.com/add-login-to-nodejs-with-cloudflare-argo-tunnels/ 
> 
> Add Login to a Node.js App with Cloudflare Argo Tunnels
>
> Scot
>
> On Monday, 7 June 2021 at 16:16:56 UTC+1 PMario wrote:
>
>> Hi Ed,
>> It should be possible to activate basic auth on the Nginx level. It will 
>> create a system popup and deny access, if the credentials are wrong. 
>> That should be relatively simple for the start. 
>>
>> see: 
>> https://docs.nginx.com/nginx/admin-guide/security-controls/configuring-http-basic-authentication/
>> I didn't read it. I only did a short search q:-)
>> -mario
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Simple authentication options for Bob

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, I'll look into this!

I ended up just using "security by obscurity" and putting the wikis on a 
subdomain that nobody but me happens to know about; it'll do for now.  But 
I'd like to see if I can do basic auth.

As things stand, Bob seems to randomly crash a lot (or else something on my 
DO droplet is randomly killing it -- the logs say "such-and-so PID killed" 
so I think the issue might be external to Bob).  Annoying but I can always 
ssh in and restart it and things are fine again.  And other than that Bob 
is working really well. It blows me away that it exists at all, thank you 
for it!
On Monday, June 7, 2021 at 3:38:12 AM UTC-4 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:

> I never used basic auth with Bob on nginx, but other people have and the 
> thing that is probably missing is proxying websockets.
>
> The information here should cover it 
> http://nginx.org/en/docs/http/websocket.html
>
> I am hoping that the day job will slow down enough soon so I can get back 
> to working on the secure wiki server and have a simple install script, but 
> I don't have any real idea how long it will be before I have time for that.
>
> On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 12:01:01 AM UTC+2 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>>
>> I just got Bob working on a digital ocean droplet behind an nginx proxy 
>> (yay!) and I would like some kind of authentication going on.  The 
>> "credentials" system which works with basic tiddlywiki would be great.   
>> However, when I run it with something like:
>>
>> node ./tiddlywiki.js Wikis/BobWiki/ --wsserver credentials=creds.csv 
>> "readers=(anon)" "writers=(authenticated)"
>>
>> the credentials don't seem to have any effect at all.  Anyone can still 
>> edit it.
>>
>> are those even supposed to work with Bob?
>>
>> if not, are there any other simple actions?
>>
>> I tried just putting Basic Auth on in my nginx config, but that seemed to 
>> break Bob completely.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Simple authentication options for Bob

[Ed Heil]

I just got Bob working on a digital ocean droplet behind an nginx proxy 
(yay!) and I would like some kind of authentication going on.  The 
"credentials" system which works with basic tiddlywiki would be great.   
However, when I run it with something like:

node ./tiddlywiki.js Wikis/BobWiki/ --wsserver credentials=creds.csv 
"readers=(anon)" "writers=(authenticated)"

the credentials don't seem to have any effect at all.  Anyone can still 
edit it.

are those even supposed to work with Bob?

if not, are there any other simple actions?

I tried just putting Basic Auth on in my nginx config, but that seemed to 
break Bob completely.




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[tw5] Re: Create tiddler with tags from variable

[Ed Heil]

Mat's initial suggestion worked great.  I didn't need this to appear 
everywhere, or in edit mode.  Just in a certain class of tiddlers which are 
already being displayed through a special template (which is where this 
button will appear).

Thanks, everyone!

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[tw5] Create tiddler with tags from variable

[Ed Heil]

Hello,

I've been trying to do something that seems like it should be simple but 
maybe isn't.

I'm in a tiddler called "Three Word Title."

I wish to add a tiddler tagged with its name and one other tag, in response 
to hitting a button.

I would think I'd use something like:

<$action-createtiddler $base="MyBase" tags={{{ [] 
[[OtherTag]] +[join[ ]] }} />

But of course that won't work, it will give it the tags "Three" "Word" 
"Title" and "OtherTag."

Is there a bulletproof way to turn a list of tiddlers (returned by a 
filter) into a list with proper [[]] so it's suitable for use in a tags 
field?

I could do this by creating the tiddler first, then saving the title, then 
sending a tm-add-tag message, but at that point I need a FieldManglerWidget 
and it just seems like this ought to be easier.

I thought that maybe enlist or enlist-input should do the job but they 
don't seem to.

I guess another way of summing up my problem would be that I want this:

<$vars barBaz="bar baz">
"<$text text={{{ [[foo]] [] +[what operator do I want here?[]]  
}}}/>"


to somehow produce 

"[[foo]] [[bar baz]]"


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[tw5] Displaying certain tiddlers differently

[Ed Heil]

Hi!

I'm using TW to make a character sheet for a role-playing game.  Right now 
a tiddler for a character is associated with a data tiddler.  The character 
tiddler has a view template which displays all the stuff in the data 
tiddler in a readable & usable manner.

I'm thinking it would be nice to have the character sheet *actually be* the 
data tiddler.

If I do this, I'm going to want to modify the display of this tiddler, so 
that when you look at it,  you can't see the underlying data, you can just 
see the template with the UI for displaying it and interacting with it.

I've added view templates to classes of tiddlers before, e.g. by adding a 
new tiddler with the special view template tag so it shows up for tiddlers 
with a certain tag.  But I've never tried to *replace* the default display.

I'm wondering if I need to look at replacing (shadowing) a system tiddler 
or what.


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[tw5] Github saver hella slow lately?

[Ed Heil]

Over the last week I've noticed the github saver has gone from "kind of 
slow" to "really really really slow."  Wondering if anyone else had seen 
the same thing?


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[tw5] Re: Athens: a VC backed, open-source Roam competitor

[Ed Heil]

"you can't really make these apps with JavaScript"

News to me!


On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 4:25:58 PM UTC-5 dieg...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
> A YC (venture capital firm) backed open-source Roam alternative launched 
> today on HackerNews: 
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26316793
>
> Some relevant parts of the announcement (my opinion only):
>
>
>- Athens is an open-source and local-first alternative to Roam 
>Research. Roam Research is a notetaking application, and *what they 
>really got right was the "bidirectional link."*
>- With bidirectional links, you never have to worry about where you 
>write a note. Bidirectional links allow you to connect any two notes 
>together, creating a knowledge graph. 
>- This is why Athens is about more than just notetaking. *I believe 
>networked applications with bidirectional links and data could become a 
> new 
>category itself.*
>- Of course, this *bidirectional idea isn't new*. In fact, it goes as 
>far back as the origin of the Web. It's the original concept of hypertext 
>and Xanadu, which Ted Nelson has been advocating for decades. More 
>recently, aspects of it were attempted by the Semantic Web. *Yet the 
>adoption never really caught on, until perhaps now.*
>- Something else that's interesting about the most powerful networked 
>tools like Roam and Athens is t*hat you can't really make these apps 
>with JavaScript or plaintext/markdown.* *For maximum power, you want a 
>true graph database*. Both Roam and Athens leverage a front-end graph 
>database called DataScript, which is written in Clojure(Script). 
> JavaScript 
>doesn't have a native analog, and Neo4j is only server-side. *This 
>matters because I believe this is the first consumer use case for graph 
>databases*. I believe both Roam and Athens are general-purpose 
>platforms where individuals and organizations can centralize all of their 
>knowledge and tasks. I believe the graph is the right data structure to do 
>this with.
>
>
> I find this fascination with bi-directional links without a huge mention 
> of TW slightly frustrating. 
>
> Also, his point about a graph database is an interesting one to consider. 
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Diego
>
>
>

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[tw5] TiddlyMap raster question

[Ed Heil]

I'm going to use TiddlyMap to key a map (for a roleplaying game) -- put in 
the map and then use the raster feature to place tiddlers in specific 
locations on the map, so I can click on the place on the map and pull up 
the tiddler which describes what is there.

Essentially I"m using it as if it were an HTML imagemap.  Arguably the 
power of TiddlyMap is complete overkill for this but whatevs, it works!

I need the raster feature to be able to place tiddlers on the map at the 
appropriate locations, but the map I'm using *already* has a grid on it, 
and having it and the rasters on there together is weird. 

I'm wondering if there's a way to turn the visible grid off when using the 
raster feature, so that you can place tiddlers in specific places on the 
background image, without that visual indication of the grid?

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ed Heil]

Hi Jeremy, 

Re-reading this message (and studiously avoiding making any suggestions for 
new names) the idea of "targeting more modern JavaScript engines" makes me 
wonder about the question of "how modern a browser do you need to have to 
have a working Tiddlywiki?"  

With regards to minimum browsers for TW5, according to the web site it's 
"Safari version 6" (from 2012!) IE version 10 (also from 2012!) and "all 
recent" Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox for Android, whatever that means, but 
presumably going back comparably far.  So right now TW5 is usable in 
browsers that go about 8 years back, which is nice.  And TWC support 
obviously goes back way further than that.

How big a change in "you need this recent a browser" would you think was 
acceptable in a "Xememex" project?

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:52:20 AM UTC-5 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

> As appealing as this sounds, I just don't think that as a small community 
> we have the resources to support both, unless the intention would be for 
> TiddlyWiki 5 to only receive bug fix updates. 
>
>
> I think that would be the default, yes, unless somebody wanted to pick up 
> the development more purposefully.
>
> As you mention in a later reply, the real challenge is replacing the word 
> tiddler. I remember trying this in Classic and it wasn't easy then and is 
> probably even harder now with all the widget attributes etc. Which makes me 
> wonder if this would really be the best use of our time and resources?
>
>
> That is indeed one of the critical questions.
>
> Over the years we've had consistent feedback on the name "TiddlyWiki" that 
> ranges between:
>
> * I don't care about the name, it's just a meaningless string of letters
> * I think the name is fine, it's distinctive, and has few false positives 
> when Googling
> * I think the name diminishes TiddlyWiki
> * I think the name is a thinly veiled obscenity
>
> That last category is undoubtedly a minority, but it's a very consistently 
> and forcefully expressed opinion when it does come up. I used to think that 
> view said more about the people holding it than anything else. But the 
> trouble is that I'm too close to the thing: the name "TiddlyWiki" is my 
> little piece of wordplay, and I'm attached to it. I think maybe that might 
> hold for many of us who have invested time and effort in the project. So I 
> have to pay attention to feedback that comes from a different perspective, 
> because I'm never going to be able to assume that perspective myself.
>
> The other consideration in all of this is my desire to modernise the 
> design of TW5 and establish a new baseline for backwards compatibility. 
> After 10 years, it's becoming increasingly limiting to live with some of 
> the early design decisions of TW5 (a lot of which are pretty arcane - for 
> example, "tiddlerfield" modules). I believe we would make faster and more 
> decisive progress if we lost some of that baggage.
>
> The idea of modernising the core relates to the naming change because 
> another bit of feedback that I received back in 2011-13 was that it was a 
> mistake to reuse the name TiddlyWiki for the new project. Many people felt 
> that it was unnecessarily confusing to have two distinct products with the 
> same name, and struggled with my perspective that TWC and TW5 were 
> different versions of the same thing.
>
> So, what I learned from all of the above is that names for communal things 
> are tricky. People have strong opinions because they feel they have a 
> stake. The thing that is particularly tricky is trying to change what an 
> existing name means if the previous meaning is entrenched in the community.
>
> In other words, I think TiddlyWiki 5 is ripe for such a thorough internal 
> overhaul that changing the names might not be as much of a practical 
> consideration as it would be if we had to maintain backwards compatibility.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Saq
>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: TiddlyWiki Project Name

[Ed Heil]

Data point from a fairly new (<1y) user.

"Tiddlywiki" and "tiddler" stopped sounding weird to me very quickly.  
Renaming "because there's something inherently wrong with the name" seems 
silly to me.

Renaming because of a new baseline codebase/breaking changes?  that makes 
more sense.  It does make me sad for the existing TW5 codebase with all the 
incredible work that's gone into the code itself and to plugins (like 
Tiddlymap!  Tiddlymap is so amazing!  Would it be ported over?  It's the 
best!).  And worried about stuff being left behind.

In accordance with Jeremy's wishes, I hereby have no opinion whatsoever 
about what a good new name would be. :)

One thing I would be actually concerned about, is what a new codebase would 
do in terms of "minimum browser version needed."  It's fun to chase the new 
JS technology available by default in newer browsers, but it would be a 
real shame to exclude people with old browsers any more than was necessary.


On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 11:17:47 AM UTC-5 Osin wrote:

> My disjointed 2 cents: 
>
> The names "TiddlyWiki" and "Tiddler" got a few chuckles from my manager 
> when I proposed it as a solution for an internal Wiki/Knowledge Base, then 
> we moved on. It's a funny and unique name, but I don't think it's 
> necessarily that bad once that initial bump has been passed over. Now I 
> just say "Wiki". I didn't know Wiki was perceived as outdated. So in that 
> sense, I agree with whoever gave the example of construction jargon.
>
> My first reaction to "xememex" was to re-read it a few times to figure out 
> how to read it (granted, I barely slept and haven't had coffee yet). It is 
> easy to type once I figured out where to put the e and the m and the x, but 
> that's the only benefit to the current name. People pronounce GIF two ways 
> as well, so maybe the pronunciation aspect of it isn't as bad. How often 
> would one communicate the name in writing vs speech? "Meme" screams funny 
> images with text, but that connotation might just be a fad.
>
> That being said, reading through the replies, I feel that the renaming 
> brainstorm is focusing on power-users and developers as the "target 
> audience". What is being sought exactly with the name change? To make 
> people in the google group like the name and make things easier for the 
> devs, or popularize the platform? I think defining this needs to be a 
> priority before starting to brainstorm names. In that sense, maybe 
> crowdfunding and paying a branding/communication consultant might be 
> something to consider? It reminds me of a time when software engineers made 
> design decisions, before UX Research was a thing. I say this as a 
> non-programmer outsider-type who is just interested in organizing his crap, 
> slowly trying to wrap my head around TW.
>
> I tried to brainstorm in vain. I thought that maybe keeping the "TW" in 
> some shape or form would make sense (TW+Quine=Twine? [already exists] 
> qTwine? Qwine?) or keeping the "Tid" part, "Wiktid'? It could be even used 
> as a verb: "I wiktid my thoughts". "Let me wiktid what you just said". As 
> you can see, my brain cells are starting to give out.
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 6:00:36 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> Ciao Jeremy 
>>
>> I get the point that meandering over all possible names ain't helpful.
>>
>> And I also LIKE the general idea that our tool is dealing with 
>> FUNDAMENTAL SEMANTIC ARCHITECTURAL re-composition at will ... In other 
>> words, basically our tool explores and refoliates the nature of information 
>> retrieval and organisation via the Net ... 
>>
>> And that REMAINS an open-ended project. It is that ROOTING of our tool in 
>> that problematic (Bush's) I find both fascinating and very enlightening.
>>
>> And that is WHY I'd prefer MEMEX / XEMEMEX type name over other options 
>> ... simply because it roots the problematic back into Vannevar Bush's 
>> superb insights (and prior to the Berner-Lee production steps) of the 
>> nature of the problem (indexing human memory = memex).
>>
>> Regarding scope. Well, I'd roughly say we have our tool as an ENGINE FOR 
>> MAKING new tools. But also our tool is ALSO the TOOLS MADE. It is that 
>> recursive "Quine-ish" thing I think can be most hard to grasp or 
>> communicate. *The Maker is also The Made.*
>>
>> Where we, overall on promotion, are likely lacking is more explicit 
>> promotion of Tools Made rather than the Tool-Maker. We do lack thorough 
>> SHOWCASING.
>>
>> In that sense there is more than one aspect to deriving a compelling 
>> moniker. IMO we need promote both Maker and The Made. 
>>
>> But Jeremy, thanks so much for bearing the weight forward. I really do 
>> feel your connection back to the "big problem" --- one that TW/xememex is, 
>> basically, still always facing and dealing with.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> TT
>>
>> jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The best alternatives I've got are "xememex" for the product, and "card" 
>>> for the 

Re: [tw5] Service worker

[Ed Heil]

Nick,

Have you looked at Quine2? 

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/quine-2/id1450128957


On Saturday, December 5, 2020 at 12:15:34 PM UTC-5 Nick wrote:

> Thanks to all, It seems SWs' are really not the way forward. The 'offline' 
> feature was the appeal of TW, but as an app on my home screen, the offline 
> function is not working. It does not open from files either on IOS. Its 
> works in apps like quine but I need it to be its own app. Maybe i've missed 
> something, but there must be a way to view a TW file offline on mobiles 
> with only the .html file"?
>
> Thanks
> Nick
>
> On Saturday, 5 December 2020 at 16:36:05 UTC jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Indeed. Service workers were intended to help re-engineer existing 
>> server-based applications to work offline. The main feature is a background 
>> thread that can fake network requests when the system is offline. It still 
>> uses the same LocalStorage as an ordinary web page. So there’s not really 
>> anything to be gained for an application like TiddlyWiki that was designed 
>> from the ground up to work offline. It’s a shame.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2020, at 15:52, Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>
>> I have similar feelings about service workers as Jed... 
>> That said, I know LinOneTwo has done some work with service worker and TW 
>> but I am not familiar with the details: 
>> https://github.com/linonetwo/tiddlywiki-plugins 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] TW-relevant Wired article

[Ed Heil]

Lots of good stuff in this article, "'Real' Programming is an Elitist Myth"

https://www.wired.com/story/databases-coding-real-programming-myth/

This is the part that made me think of Tiddlywiki:

*Code culture can be solipsistic and exhausting. Programmers fight over 
semicolon placement and the right way to be object-oriented or functional 
or whatever else will let them feel in control and smarter and more 
economically safe, and always I want to shout back: Code isn't enough on 
its own. We throw code away when it runs out its clock; we migrate data to 
new databases, so as not to lose one precious bit. Code is a story we tell 
about data.*

With Tiddlywiki, people who own the data also own the code and can do with 
it what they want, like the non-programmer programmers mentioned in the 
story.


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[tw5] Re: WikiWords vs Double Brackets

[Ed Heil]

Now that you mention the issues that come up with French, I guess it brings 
up the fact that many languages (many scripts) don't have a case 
distinction!  So there are definite limits to the internationality of 
CamelCase.

On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 12:01:53 PM UTC-5 jn.pierr...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> CamelCase is fine, but when you have an acronym in your title, the 
> question of how to do starts.
>
> for instance: HistoryOfHTMLBrowser or HistoryOfHtmlBrowser ? The first one 
> is more consistant but so many uppercase in a row does not seem very 
> Camel-like to me. And the second is nice but has no justification but ease 
> of reading (but that's a very good reason indeed).
>
> You have also some problem with apostrophes, although English has few of 
> them, French has many. For instance "l'heure et l'habitude" would be 
> LHeureEtLHabitude and that's ugly. You could resolve it by a title like 
> HeureEtHabitude but this example really show that, as has been told, 
> CamelCase is not fit for every purpose, and you have to have an extensive 
> naming convention to avoid misspelling.
>
> Also, orthographic corrector are showing a lot of ill-advised red because 
> of every camelcase word and you will have a harsh time spotting the true 
> errors or would have to clutter your dictionary with all your camels...
>
>
> Le vendredi 20 novembre 2020 à 16:47:20 UTC+1, Ed Heil a écrit :
>
>> Hey, thanks, all, this is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to 
>> hear!  It's been very informative, and I've really enjoyed looking at, 
>> e.g., Soren's Zettelkasten!
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 5:47:11 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>> Ciao Soren
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 19 November 2020 at 20:53:05 UTC+1 soren.b...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use WikiWords in my Zettelkasten 
>>>> <https://zettelkasten.sorenbjornstad.com>. Besides saving a couple of 
>>>> keystrokes, I actually like them aesthetically ... 
>>>
>>> And I think the restrictions in form 
>>>> <https://zettelkasten.sorenbjornstad.com/#GenerativeRestrictions> help 
>>>> me come up with concise names for things.
>>>
>>>
>>> Right. I agree. Constraints can be highly productive of good use--when 
>>> they match well the users cognitive process.
>>> CamelCase is particularly interesting in that *its Semantics & Form 
>>> co-incide*. There is no need to add additional [[bracket]] construction 
>>> forms that envelope.
>>> In that sense CamelCase is: efficient,  meaningful, pretty obvious, 
>>> readable & MarkupMinimal.
>>>
>>> Of course, usage hangs out on more than that. Often CamelCase is not 
>>> appropriate, requires too much forethought, won't work for titles etc.
>>>
>>> But it still has real uses & excellent efficiency in some many use cases.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> TT
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: WikiWords vs Double Brackets

[Ed Heil]

Hey, thanks, all, this is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to 
hear!  It's been very informative, and I've really enjoyed looking at, 
e.g., Soren's Zettelkasten!


On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 5:47:11 AM UTC-5 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> Ciao Soren
>
> On Thursday, 19 November 2020 at 20:53:05 UTC+1 soren.b...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I use WikiWords in my Zettelkasten 
>> . Besides saving a couple of 
>> keystrokes, I actually like them aesthetically ... 
>
> And I think the restrictions in form 
>>  help 
>> me come up with concise names for things.
>
>
> Right. I agree. Constraints can be highly productive of good use--when 
> they match well the users cognitive process.
> CamelCase is particularly interesting in that *its Semantics & Form 
> co-incide*. There is no need to add additional [[bracket]] construction 
> forms that envelope.
> In that sense CamelCase is: efficient,  meaningful, pretty obvious, 
> readable & MarkupMinimal.
>
> Of course, usage hangs out on more than that. Often CamelCase is not 
> appropriate, requires too much forethought, won't work for titles etc.
>
> But it still has real uses & excellent efficiency in some many use cases.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: WikiWords vs Double Brackets

[Ed Heil]

Hi Tones,

I'm not trying to solve any problems, it was just a matter of curiosity.  I 
used to use TitlesLikeThis a lot because they were used in some examples in 
the Tiddlywiki documentation; however, WikiWords have some limitations 
(WikiWords means your titles can't have spaces and can't be single words) 
so I don't really do that anymore.  I just use regular titles and [[Double 
Brackets]].  From what I've seen, that's pretty normal -- I don't see many 
WikiWords in other people's tiddlywikis. 

And it would be kind of weird looking at (e.g.) a table of contents, and 
seeing a bunch of WikiWords rather than regular text.  And tagging, it 
would look a little weird if instead of tagging something "Bookmarks" you 
had to tag it "BookMarks".

So when I look at one of my first wikis and I see pages like JohnSmith 
instead of [[John Smith]] I think "huh, that's right, I used to use 
WIkiWords a lot and stopped.  I wonder if there are any people who really 
dig WikiWords and still use them?  If so I wonder what their reason for 
doing so is?"

Maybe there aren't any, maybe everybody ends up moving to non-wiki-words 
titles like I did!  But I thought I'd ask.


On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 6:13:34 PM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:

> Ed,
>
> Could you give some examples of your titles?
>
>- My suspicions is you have a misconception on titles (stand to be 
>corrected).
>
> As soon as you start to use tags and tiddler titles containing spaces some 
> of the wikitext may need improvement to cater for this. However once 
> practiced you will write your wikitext to support this from the get go. 
> When handling one or more titles (inc tags) with spaces another method 
> needs to be used to delineate the different titles. Given fieldnames do not 
> permit spaces in their names you do not need to cater for them in 
> fieldnames, but you do in their values.
>
> If handling lists of titles, as tags is a special case (tag operators), 
> you need to use enlist and listops operators to maintain a valid list of 
> titles. 
>
> Regards
> Tones
> On Thursday, 19 November 2020 at 06:05:34 UTC+11 Ed Heil wrote:
>
>> As a relatively new tiddlywiki user, I'm always interested in the 
>> opinions of people who have been TiddlyWiki'ing for a long time, and this 
>> topic came to mind.
>>
>> When I first started using TW (earlier this year), I tended to use 
>> WikiWords for titles.  I've since gone almost entirely to double brackets 
>> (meaning titles may be single words or may have spaces in them).  When you 
>> start using titles as tags, and use things like Table-Of-Contents plugins, 
>> it seems like an obvious move to remove the "multiple words, no spaces" 
>> restriction from titles.
>>
>> I'm curious though if any experienced tiddlywikists still use WikiWords, 
>> and if so what they find valuable about them.
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] WikiWords vs Double Brackets

[Ed Heil]

As a relatively new tiddlywiki user, I'm always interested in the opinions 
of people who have been TiddlyWiki'ing for a long time, and this topic came 
to mind.

When I first started using TW (earlier this year), I tended to use 
WikiWords for titles.  I've since gone almost entirely to double brackets 
(meaning titles may be single words or may have spaces in them).  When you 
start using titles as tags, and use things like Table-Of-Contents plugins, 
it seems like an obvious move to remove the "multiple words, no spaces" 
restriction from titles.

I'm curious though if any experienced tiddlywikists still use WikiWords, 
and if so what they find valuable about them.


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[tw5] Re: General discussion: How do you use tags? (The philosophy of tags)

[Ed Heil]

Bimlas, 

The "links-only" path of tiddlywiki-ing you're describing is very 
interesting!  I have previously noticed a tension between 
tag-and-field-based and text-and-link-based organization, or to put it 
another way, metadata-based organization vs. text-based organization.

It's an interesting thing to wrestle with, and I appreciate reading your 
notes following your path down the text-and-link path.


On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 2:59:40 AM UTC-4 bimlas wrote:

> Si,
>
> Lately, I’ve been almost completely ignoring tags, I prefer links 
> everywhere, because all that really matters is that two notes are related 
> to each other, not necessarily how they relate to the relationship. The 
> surrounding text explains how they relate. Further explanation:
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/Re11x96t-qI/m/GYuMKHx0AQAJ
>

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Re: [tw5] Still frustrated

[Ed Heil]

Tones,

Agreed on all points.  I didn't meant to suggest that the differences between 
Tiddlywiki and other programming environments are arbitrary or random.  
Generally TW is the way it is so it can do the things it does.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, at 10:04 PM, TW Tones wrote:
> Ed,
> 
> My programming days was more in the past, but I would argue that tiddlywikis 
> approach is different for a fundamental reason of architecture. If you were 
> to build something similar in any language you would have to ensure the 
> following and it would complicate the program massively;
>  * Cause all and any change in the whole solution to flow through immediately 
> to all references to that changed item
>  * Render all visible objects when a change occurs but do so efficiently, 
> including dealing with potential loops
>  * Allow the transclusions of transclusions etc... to work and be reliable 
> and avoid loops.
>  * Now wrap the vast majority of this is an environment that is somewhat 
> accessible to almost everyone 
>  * Create not just an application but a platform which can be used to design 
> and document itself.
> In the face of these facts it is my option tiddlywiki does the best job I 
> have ever seen. Yes we want to improve documentation and teach the concepts 
> effectively to improve ease of adoption and share the concepts.
> 
> TiddlyWiki is not just a non-trivial Quine but a Quine platform.
> 
> Regards
> Tones
> 

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Re: [tw5] Still frustrated

[Ed Heil]

As a programmer myself, I would agree agree that tiddlywiki doesn't let you 
exploit your existing programming knowledge very much at all.  It's very 
different from most programming environments, in that it's almost entirely 
declarative, it operates by transforming an underlying series of entities 
which are a superset of HTML; it has several different "syntaxes" that are 
appropriate in different contexts and interact in sometimes unexpected 
ways, or require unexpected means to make them interact...  There's just 
not much resemblance to the kind of programming most people do, even most 
web developers.

You kind of have to throw away everything you know about programming and 
accept that this system operates on its own terms and in its own context, 
and your existing programming knowledge will apply only in the most general 
ways.  (Although of course, if you have HTML/CSS knowledge, that knowledge 
*will* apply with respect to the appearance and structure of the final 
product of all the underlying transformation.  And if you have existing 
Javascript knowledge and are developing a JS-based plugin, that knowledge 
will apply -- but that's very advanced and seldom necessary.)

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 10:48:01 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I didn't read the whole thread. Only this post and I downloaded. the 
> "Standard Nomenclature.json" from Tony.
>
> On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 1:28:12 PM UTC+2, Bob Jansen wrote:
>
> The tiddlywiki wiki entry on Variables in Wikitext has the example, 
>>
>> <$set name=animal value=zebra> 
>> <> 
>> 
>>
>
> That's right. Consistency is an issue and we try hard to fix it. ... 
>
> TW documentation should consistently use double quotes. It should look 
> like this. I'll create a PR after finishing this post.
>
> <$set name=animal value="zebra"> 
> <> 
> 
>
> As long as there are no spaces and "special chars" quotes are not needed. 
>
>  
>
>> Your cheatsheet, which I know you passed to me before it has been 
>> reviewed, has a similar example
>>
>> <$set name='var' value='Foo'> 
>> <> 
>> 
>>
>
> It's the users taste. So users can use different quotes if they want. The 
> macro call syntax is described in the docs 
> .
>  
> The search string is "macro call"
>  
>
>> Note one difference, the use of quotes around the variable name and value 
>> attributes. So which is it, are quotes required or not? Do quotes matter? I 
>> would assume quotes do matter and if so why does the official documentation 
>> leave them out.
>>
>
> See the link above. Quotes do matter *as soon as you have special 
> characters* in parameter values. That's why the rule for TW PRs with 
> documentation is: Quotes must be used. ... BUT I'm sure there are some 
> oversights. 
>
> I'll post a link to the PR. If you find more problems tell me there and 
> I'll try to fix it with that PR.
>
>  
>
>> I also assume the macro call should read <> and this is 
>> just a mistype. 
>>
>
> <>  ... This is a macro call without any parameters. Macro 
> names -- see link above.
>  
>
>> But this hows that even such a simple statement's documentation is 
>> inconsistent.
>>
>
> Sure if you use different sources. Different users have different 
> preferences. ... 
> For single word values you'll find many of *my personal* examples here in 
> the group without quotes, because I'm lazy. 
>
> *The TW docs should have them. ... If not, it needs to be fixed. *
>
>  
>
>> Now, if quotes don't matter I assume it is because no values have spaces?
>>
>
> right. But as soon as you have other chars than A-Z, a-z and 0-9 you have 
> to use quotes, even if you don't have spaces. 
>  
>
>> But this is an exception rule and as we all know one exception breeds 
>> other exceptions and soon we have so many exceptions that the only real 
>> exception is the initial idea. In all other programming languages that I 
>> know of, strings are quote delimited. A simple lesson learned once and 
>> applied all over the place.
>>
>
> You are right, but we can't enforce this, since TW needs to be able to 
> work with copy/pasted html code. Browsers don't enforce those quotes, if 
> they are not needed. They use what's intended. 
>
> We have
>
> <$list filter="[tag[x]]" /> and we can have <$list filter=<> /> 
> which is a completely different thing
>
> The first example shows all tiddlers tagged: x
>
> The second example uses a filter, that is stored in a *variable *named: 
> myFilter. A working code for the second example is: 
>
> \define myFilter() [tag[x]]
>
> <$list filter=<> />
>
> Yes ... internally macros are variables. 
>
>  <$list filter="<>" />  will be interpreted as a tiddler name 
> <>, which probably doesn't make sense for most users. 
>
>  
>
>> Your cheatsheet on the  element states
>> "Does *only* work as a *filter variable*, inside or outside a macro:"
>> As 

[tw5] Re: Roam Research is NOT a model. It's a money machine.

[Ed Heil]

I ran across a thread on Twitter a little while back which pointed out that 
Roam's popularity first exploded among the so-called "Rationalist" 
community on the internet (associated with the websites LessWrong and 
SlateStarCodex).

https://twitter.com/melissamcewen/status/1277465062010163200

On Friday, September 18, 2020 at 5:27:17 AM UTC-4 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> I guess you will all need to blame me. 
>>
>
> Nah. It was good & opened a lot of useful directions for TW.
> Power to your elbow & its active greasing.
>
> MY point in the OP is that (a) the concepts Roam advances are NOT new; (b) 
> that its approach plays on concepts of linkage that are (i) well worn; (ii) 
> packaged to look innovative; (c) TW can DO all of them and more, no problem 
> (which your Strolling showed). It is not a big deal. I care less they make 
> money from that than *consume informational space*.
>
> IMO the underlying issue is that, generally, on web, there is a very poor 
> depiction/explanation of link/tag strategies, Despite their ubiquity & 
> necessity. And that marketing of some non-linear solutions exploits that 
> fact.
>
> Better concepts are needed. And *LEAFED* (i.e. the process of grown 
> differentiation from interacting primitives to redolent outcomes) examples 
> in TW would aid that AND help promote TW.
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>

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[tw5] Re: Life timeline

[Ed Heil]

Yeah, it is potentially a big issue, and I'm successfully avoiding it  now 
by just attaching events to a year tag. :)

I suppose you could make fuzzy dates tiddlers of their own, and give them 
fields which describe. the space they cover.  How?  A central point and a 
halo of fuzziness? A start and end date which implies "the actual is 
sometime in here"? 

Sometimes you'd want to know about the date as if it were a point (perhaps 
at the center of the range), but sometimes you'd want to know about the 
date as if it were a span, maybe depending on how you wanted to visualize 
it?



On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:03:49 PM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:

> Ed,
>
> I have a long term goal to do this, and building that reference needs 
> "Fuzzy dates" and yes making a timeline important.
>
> In someways its too large a subject, but I will be happy to contribute to 
> focused aspects to do this. 
>
> It would also help researchers, historians and biographers.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> On Wednesday, 2 September 2020 02:32:34 UTC+10, Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>> Looking for advice on how to raise my game on one of my first tiddlywikis 
>> ever.
>>
>> It's a timeline of life events, so I can go back and answer my questions 
>> like "what grade was I in when that happened?  When did I move there?  When 
>> did I meet them?".
>>
>> It started out as just a textual list, with some links.  Then I learned 
>> about tagging and stuff, and I ended up making a tiddler for each year and 
>> tagging the events to that tiddler (so I can rearrange them in the correct 
>> order thanks to the magic of list fields).
>>
>> I have not done anything more than "attaching events to a given year 
>> tiddler" as far as assigning dates.  I'd like to actually put dates in a 
>> field, but I often don't have real date data, like I know something 
>> happened in "1980" or "late 1980" or "fall 1980" or "september 1980" or 
>> something like that.
>>
>> Any suggestions on handling that sort of thing?
>>
>> The technique I have, of just assigning things to years and arranging 
>> them manually in order, actually works fine.  It doesn't allow me to do 
>> things like use the timeline visualization plugin, which would be pretty 
>> neat, but that's not the most important thing.
>>
>> I guess I'm just wondering whether anybody has best practices or hints on 
>> handling dates of widely varying precision.
>>
>> I haven't touched this TW in a while so it's kind of fun looking at how I 
>> used to do things just a few months ago, and what I've learned since then! 
>>  (E.g. i used to make heavy use of WikiWords but that passed by the 
>> wayside)
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Life timeline

[Ed Heil]

Looking for advice on how to raise my game on one of my first tiddlywikis 
ever.

It's a timeline of life events, so I can go back and answer my questions 
like "what grade was I in when that happened?  When did I move there?  When 
did I meet them?".

It started out as just a textual list, with some links.  Then I learned 
about tagging and stuff, and I ended up making a tiddler for each year and 
tagging the events to that tiddler (so I can rearrange them in the correct 
order thanks to the magic of list fields).

I have not done anything more than "attaching events to a given year 
tiddler" as far as assigning dates.  I'd like to actually put dates in a 
field, but I often don't have real date data, like I know something 
happened in "1980" or "late 1980" or "fall 1980" or "september 1980" or 
something like that.

Any suggestions on handling that sort of thing?

The technique I have, of just assigning things to years and arranging them 
manually in order, actually works fine.  It doesn't allow me to do things 
like use the timeline visualization plugin, which would be pretty neat, but 
that's not the most important thing.

I guess I'm just wondering whether anybody has best practices or hints on 
handling dates of widely varying precision.

I haven't touched this TW in a while so it's kind of fun looking at how I 
used to do things just a few months ago, and what I've learned since then! 
 (E.g. i used to make heavy use of WikiWords but that passed by the 
wayside)


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[tw5] Re: Day Number

[Ed Heil]

Hey, thanks all.  

That macro is outstanding.  I'd definitely rather exploit existing filter 
techniques than add in a plugin!

I had run across the term "ordinal date" in wikipedia for this thing, and 
"day of year" would also be an intuitively clear way to refer to it.  I'll 
pick one of those to use for my field. :)

On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 7:52:50 PM UTC-4 Eric Shulman wrote:

> On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 4:08:23 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>>
>> For clarity we would call this the "day of year number" DOY
>>
>
> Based on my recent work with time and date (
> http://TiddlyTools.com/timer.html), I have learned quite a bit about date 
> nomenclature.
>
> In fact, there is a well-defined international standard, ISO-8601 (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 
> ), that defines how 
> dates are represented and referenced
>
> Using that international standard, the "day of year number" is called the 
> *"ordinal 
> date"* (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Ordinal_dates).
>
> Similarly, the standard defines the "week of year" number, which is just 
> referred to as the *"week number"* (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_week_date).
>
> There is also a standard for "*weekday number*" which is *"a digit d from 
> 1 through 7, beginning with Monday and ending with Sunday"*
>
> Note that the TWCore date formatting (https://tiddlywiki.com/#DateFormat) 
> that 
> is used by the <> macro already supports "week number" using "WW" and 
> "0WW" formatting codes.  It also supports both 4-digit and 2-digit "year 
> number with respect to week number, using "w" and "wYY" formatting 
> codes respectively.
>
> -e
>

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[tw5] Day Number

[Ed Heil]

Hi,

I'm interested in populating a field on a tiddler with the "day number" 
(Jan 1 = 1, Dec 31 = 365 or 366).  There doesn't seem to be an option in 
the now macro which will give me that number, unless I'm missing 
something.  

I was thinking this might be a good reason to create my first javascript 
macro, but poking around the documentation, it's not entirely clear to me 
how it's possible to create a little one-off javascript macro in a tiddler 
to use in your wiki, the way you can create a little one-off wikitext 
macro. 

I was looking at this:

https://tiddlywiki.com/dev/index.html#JavaScript%20Macros

but it talks about developing javascript macros as "modules."  I'm not sure 
how to add a new module in my wiki... I see there are existing javascript 
macro modules which are just tiddlers in $:/core/modules/macros  ... they 
look just like some javascript in a tiddler...  could I make something like 
that?  If so, how?

I know Javascript, I just am missing some very simple first steps as to how 
to get started on this project.

Of course, if there's some way to get a day number out of the now macro, I 
wouldn't have to worry about it. :)


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[tw5] Re: Lost in transclusion

[Ed Heil]

and the wikify widget is finally, for the first time, clear to me. 
Thanks!

On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4 TW Tones wrote:

> Werner,
>
> I am confident Eric is spot on. It was the correct understanding of this 
> issue and the use of wikify that stopped me getting stuck regularly. I have 
> being trying to get some activity on this because it is a barrier to new 
> users. Perhaps this quick note will help as a rule until you fully 
> understand it.
>
>- If you need a value to be "evaluated" from wikitext to use within 
>subsequent Wikitext logic use the wikify widget at the last possible 
> moment.
>   - This guide suggests trying to use wikify in external macros is a 
>   path to disappointment
>- Make sure you close the wikify appropriately (as with all other 
>widgets) or unusual and broken result will occur
>- Its only at the final render of the tiddler that all things are 
>wikified automatically so a standalone `<>` appears to produce 
>the result you want, but as Eric said the result inside the wikitext 
>(before evaluation) without wikification it is not evaluated at that point.
>- It is fine to use the same name when wikifying to stop code 
>complexity
>
> \define macroname() blah blah
> <$wikify name=macroname text="<>">
>use <> here where it is the wikified version, or pre-
> evaluated
> 
>
> In closing
>
>- If some of our community developers see this what would be better is 
>something like the following;
>   - Allow any variable to be referenced in its "evaluated state" eg 
>   ((macroname)) would effectively wikify inline
>   - Automatically wikify/evaluate variables or macros when used in 
>   filters and other appropriate places.
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 7:15:51 AM UTC+10, Eric Shulman wrote:
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 10:06:59 AM UTC-7, Werner wrote:
>>>
>>> I am referring to a tiddler called activeDossier whose contents refers 
>>> to a JSON data tiddler. Tiddler content 
>>> is {{$:/data/CI/companyRegister##1/name}}.
>>>
>>> <$set name="theCompany" value={{$:/data/CI/activeDossier}}>
>>> !<$vars tv-wikilinks=no><> 
>>> <$list filter="[!is[system]search]" >
>>> <>
>>> 
>>>  
>>>
>>
>> The problem is that you are doing a "double transclusion".  That is, the 
>> value of <> retrieved via transclusion isn't the actual name of 
>> the company as text, but rather a secondary transclusion from a JSON 
>> tiddler (i.e., {{$:/data/CI/companyRegister##1/name}}).  When you render 
>> <>, TiddlyWiki automatically parses that transclusion and 
>> displays the actual value.  However, when you use search in the 
>> filter, the value isn't parsed any further, and you are literally searching 
>> for the transclusion syntax, not the actual company name as text.
>>
>> To resolve this, use <$wikify> instead of <$set> to fetch theCompany 
>> value, like this:
>> <$wikify name="theCompany" text={{$:/data/CI/activeDossier}}>
>> !<$vars tv-wikilinks=no><> 
>> <$list filter="[!is[system]search]" >
>> <>
>> 
>> 
>> The $wikify gets the value from the activeDossier tiddler AND then also 
>> parses that value, so the result is the desired text value from the 
>> underlying $:/data/CI/companyRegister tiddler.
>>
>> When you use it in the search filter, it's already fully 
>> resolved to be the actual company name as text, so the search should work 
>> as you intend.
>>
>> -e
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Apply changes and keep editor open?

[Ed Heil]

BTW, just as a very simple solution -- I've found it helpful in this 
context to use the "eye" tool in the toolbar to have a tiddler open 
simultaneously for viewing and editing; this works if you're editing the 
same tiddler where you'll see the changes.  If you're editing one tiddler 
and expecting to see changes in a different tiddler, then you might to go 
with the solutions pointed to by Mark S.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 7:15:23 PM UTC-4 amreus wrote:

> Oh cool! That'll do. Thank you.
>
> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 6:13:22 PM UTC-4 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> I asked this question a few days ago. Here was a reply:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/UHFJa0ijo6g/s_6X-SDJAgAJ
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 1:12:09 PM UTC-7, amreus wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm dipping my toes into writing macros.  I make a lot of mistakes while 
>>> doing so.  It seems it would be more efficient for me if there were an 
>>> "apply changes" button that applied the edits but kept the editor open 
>>> since 99% of the time I've made some typo or syntax error and need to 
>>> re-open the editor anyway.  
>>>
>>> Does such a feature exists, or make sense?
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] TMTOWTDI

[Ed Heil]

The slogan of the Perl programming language was (is) "There's More Than One 
Way To Do It" and I've been interested to see how true that is in 
Tiddlywiki!  There have been a couple instances recently where I've had the 
fun of doing something in more than one way, and being glad there's more 
than one way to do it.  Often there's an easy peasy way and a more 
complicated and thorough way, and it's not always obvious which is the 
best; different ones may be best for different people.

For example, at work I keep a TW for my own notes and basically have my own 
"ticketing" system (parallel to the official one) where I keep track of 
tickets and tasks from my own point of view.  One of the things I have in 
there is a "todo" system, where you can quickly add "todos" to  a ticket.

My first version of it was incredibly simplistic!  I created a macro called 
<> which took one parameter.  It would create a checkbox which 
was checked only if a tag with the name "todo-(parameter)" did not exist. 
 For example, <> gave you a box which was checked if there was 
no todo-1 tag.  You'd uncheck the box after creating it and you'd now have 
the "todo-1" tag on your task tiddler.  Finish the todo, check the box, and 
the tag disappears.  (I liked the idea of tags disappearing as you finish 
things up.)

Now that I know TW a lot better, I created a system where there's an entry 
box at the bottom of the tiddler, which creates "todo" sub-tiddlers tagged 
with the original tiddler title, and lets you check them as done, rearrnage 
them, delete them, click through to them and modify the text, etc.  It's 
pretty cool, it didn't take me that long to create, but I never would have 
known how to do it a couple months ago when I created the original todo-box 
macro which preceded it.  And I still love the fact that the original was 
so easy.

Another example: a friend of mine is going to run a game of Dungeons & 
Dragons, and I wanted to make a tiddlywiki to hold my character.  (I know 
that resources for this already exist, but I wanted to roll my own.)

I have two completely different versions of it.  My first, "naive" version 
is a tiddlywiki which is just for one character, and pieces of the 
character exist as tiddlers.  The Strength score is a tiddler called 
Strength.  Things like that.  You couldn't put more than one character in 
this TW cause it's not designed for that, the character sprawls all over 
the global namespace.  But the beautiful thing about this is its 
simplicity!  Everything's editable just as tiddlers if you want it to be. 
 There's no complex interface, very simple transclusion and stuff is enough 
to make the whole thing editable.

The second version I did, a single tiddler (well, a single tiddler and 
possibly some tagging sub-tiddlers) represents all the info for a 
character. Strength is a field.  All the stuff is fields. It's not as easy 
to pull info out of it and display it or make it editable.  It's not quite 
as easy to edit it in place (though you can of course always edit the 
fields on a tiddler, so it's not THAT hard).  It took more work to do this, 
but it's pretty cool, in that I could theoretically keep as many characters 
as I wanted in there and display them individually.

Technically the second version is way more sophisticated than the first -- 
it's analogous to a professional programmer using data structures rather 
than a naive programmer using globals everywhere -- and yet I kinda 
like the first one better.  It was way easier to throw together.  It would 
be way easier to tweak and modify.  The code is less complex.  It's more 
"just vanilla tiddlywiki" and less "stuff added on top of a tiddlywiki."

Obviously if I needed a thing where I could have more than one character in 
the TW, I'd go for the second.  I am really glad it's possible!  But I 
think I"m going to stick with the naive one.  I think it has a bit more 
tiddlywikiness, in that it's simple and prefers to hold information in 
tiddlers rather than fields.

Anyways, I love that the different ways are possible.  I've learned a lot 
about TWs by doing things the most simple naive way possible first and then 
moving up in sophistication and complexity and sometimes even moving 
back down again because I prefer the naive way!

Just wanted to share that aspect of my appreciation of TW. :)

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[tw5] Re: Advice for a iOS and iPadOS only user

[Ed Heil]

Hi Ivan,

Yep, Quine 2 does exactly what you're looking for, in terms of keeping 
everything local and syncing to iCloud (or any other sufficiently 
featureful file service provider on iOS).

You can indeed insert images, either embedded in the wiki or sitting in a 
nearby folder (though this feature might not be available if you're using 
something like Dropbox instead of iCloud), and I imagine you could embed 
youtube videos though I honestly haven't tried it.

I was trying to use TW on iDevices before Quine 2 came out and Quine 2 was 
1000x easier than anything else I tried.

It's just like using a TW locally on your device, with local saving, but of 
course if you're using iCloud storage, that local saving will sync to other 
devices :)


On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 8:59:11 AM UTC-4, IvanPsy wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> The more I read about TiddlyWiki the more I think is the right tool for my 
> second brain.
> I think Stroll has all the features I need, such as bi-directional links, 
> reference links, autocompletion, etc...
>
> I have just one question...
>
> Considering I’m only on iPhone and iPad, and that I want to keep all local 
> (synced on iCloud) can I have all these feature while working on such 
> devices too?
> I read Quine 2 is the only tool to manage a TiddlyWiki on iOS and iPadOS: 
> can I have those features while working on Quine 2?
> How about inserting images and embedding videos from YouTube?
>
> I have access on a PC (Windows), so starting on a PC to setup the base is 
> not a problem for me, nor accessing fro ma PC here and there for 
> maintenance purposes, but the daily work would be on an iPhone and an iPad.
>
> Thank you!
>

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[tw5] Re: codemirror - editor select button?

[Ed Heil]

Thanks Tony,

That's true, I can always do that.  Also I found that by changing the 
"font-family" from the default monospace to another monospace that happened 
to exist on my system (Inconsolata) I got a more reasonable size, just 
because that font happened to be a more moderate width for a given point 
size.

On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 6:34:36 PM UTC-4, TW Tones wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> A very simple question on font size, have you use a middle ctrl-Mouse 
> roller, or ctrl + ctrl - ?
>
> Zooming in and out often has a greater influence than any permanent 
> setting.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> -
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 12:43:23 AM UTC+10, Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>> I just installed codemirror for the first time, and it seems quite 
>> outstanding for editing anything with code.  But I'm not that interested in 
>> using it for ordinary editing because the fonts are kinda large and I don't 
>> need monospacing when I'm just writing plain text.  So there are a couple 
>> things that would be helpful that weren't obvious to me --
>>
>> * can I get a button on the toolbar that would toggle whether I'm using 
>> CodeMirror or the vanilla editor?
>>
>> * is there a place to change the font-size of the CodeMirror editor text?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>

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[tw5] codemirror - editor select button?

[Ed Heil]

I just installed codemirror for the first time, and it seems quite 
outstanding for editing anything with code.  But I'm not that interested in 
using it for ordinary editing because the fonts are kinda large and I don't 
need monospacing when I'm just writing plain text.  So there are a couple 
things that would be helpful that weren't obvious to me --

* can I get a button on the toolbar that would toggle whether I'm using 
CodeMirror or the vanilla editor?

* is there a place to change the font-size of the CodeMirror editor text?

Thanks!

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Re: [tw5] Re: List-tagged-draggable text width

[Ed Heil]

That absolutely did the trick, thanks!

-- 
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  edh...@fastmail.fm


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, at 9:13 PM, Eric Shulman wrote:
> On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 5:37:18 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:
>> I changed the template and it displayed correctly, but no drag and drop.
>> <$transclude tiddler={{!!title}} mode=block/>
> 
> That template didn't work for me when I tried it on tiddlywiki.com...
> 
> But this template did:
> @@white-space:pre-wrap;<$link /> {{!!text}}@@
> 
> Note: the <$link /> was needed to give it something that could be dragged.


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[tw5] List-tagged-draggable text width

[Ed Heil]

I have a list-tagged-draggable where I'd like the draggable objects to be 
kind of big (maybe up to 2-3 sentences). However, it's looking like text 
will not wrap -- each paragraph/div is a single line that spills out to the 
right.  

E.g. to reproduce:

Create new tiddler with contents:

<>

In test template put:

{{!!text}}

Use the "New Here" pulldown to create a tiddler tagging the New Tiddler and 
give it a lot of text.

Result: you get a draggable tiddler that spills out to the right of New 
Tiddler's card.

There doesn't seem to be an issue having a multiline draggable, since it's 
possible to use line breaks etc. to make a draggable item multiline.  It's 
just that it doesn't seem to know where to wrap the text.

This is on firefox developer edition 80.0b2, tw version 5.1.21 & 5.1.22, 
also 5.1.23 prerelease

Is there a way to work around this?  Would it be a good candidate for a bug 
report, if not?

Thanks!

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[tw5] Re: [ pre-release ] New goodies in the TiddlyWiki core

[Ed Heil]

This is a neat trick!  However, it doesn't let you tab your way past tag 
creation -- if you try to tab directly from title to text you get stuck on 
tags.  Do you know if there's any way to skip tag creation in the tab order 
as well?


On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 10:30:39 PM UTC-4, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @Mark S: turns out its very simple once you actually it exists. I honestly 
> feel this should be the default and not a hidden setting.
>
> Create a tiddler called $:/config/EditTabIndex and give it a text field "1"
>
> See 
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/floats.html#%24%3A%2Fconfig%2FEditTabIndex 
> 
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [ pre-release ] New goodies in the TiddlyWiki core

[Ed Heil]

Oh, I should have also said -- I tried both these lite editor things and 
they're both awesome.  Really cool stuff!

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:40:37 PM UTC-4, Ed Heil wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:42:35 PM UTC-4, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> @Mark,
>>
>> Completely agreed on the editor toolbar. I've hacked mine to give all of 
>> those buttons a tabindex of -1.
>>
>> Note that when you tab into the text field, it does automatically dismiss 
>> the hanging popup (new cancelPopups attribute for edit-text). The issue is, 
>> as you accurately pointed out, it should take one tab from tags input to 
>> textarea.
>>
>
> Yeah, that would be pretty huge.  The fact that it's so onerous to get 
> from title field to text field via keyboard nav is a big annoyance.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [ pre-release ] New goodies in the TiddlyWiki core

[Ed Heil]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:42:35 PM UTC-4, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> @Mark,
>
> Completely agreed on the editor toolbar. I've hacked mine to give all of 
> those buttons a tabindex of -1.
>
> Note that when you tab into the text field, it does automatically dismiss 
> the hanging popup (new cancelPopups attribute for edit-text). The issue is, 
> as you accurately pointed out, it should take one tab from tags input to 
> textarea.
>

Yeah, that would be pretty huge.  The fact that it's so onerous to get from 
title field to text field via keyboard nav is a big annoyance.

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Re: [tw5] Re: Chatbot Plugin

[Ed Heil]

That's really awesome!   And I'll be bookmarking that Online Library.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, at 6:29 AM, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
> Ed Heil wrote:
>> Off topic, but I'm fascinated to hear you worked with Eugene Gendlin!  His 
>> work, and that of his student Ann Weiser Cornell, have been very helpful to 
>> me, and I even really enjoyed his philosophical work, _Experiencing and the 
>> Creation of Meaning_, to the degree I understood it!
> 
> Ciao Ed
> 
> I can reply, I think, both acknowledging your interest, which I really 
> appreciate! :-), and the thread theme.
> 
> Gene was an amazing selfless person. He was also a brilliant philosopher. 
> Experience & The Creation Of Meaning 
> <https://www.amazon.com/Experiencing-Creation-Meaning-Philosophical-Psychological/dp/0810114275>
>  is still not fully grasped for its significance. 
> His brilliance as a philosopher clearly comes out when he debates with other 
> thinkers.
> As he does in Language Beyond Postmodernism 
> <https://www.amazon.com/dp/0810113597?tag=duc01-21=osi=1=1>.
> 
> Both are highly relevant to computer interface design, though the work needed 
> to show that has not been done yet.
> 
> Ann Weiser Cornell <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Weiser_Cornell> is very 
> important for widely popularising "Focusing", a major practical application 
> of Gene's philosophy for self-help. She's Good.
> 
> In my years with him I grew to be Executive Director of archiving & 
> preserving his work. 
> I realised, along with Mary Hendricks, his wife, that giving public access to 
> most of his published & unpublished (about 140) articles was a v. Good idea.
> Result: after 18 months of good sponsor funded hard graft was the: Gendlin 
> Online Library <http://previous.focusing.org/gendlin/gol_all_index.asp> 
> 
> Back to this thread. 
> 
> Gene actually wrote a formal "Eliza" style script, though not a programmer,  
> he was interested in exploring the "semantics of response."
> It was never made into a program. It only exists on paper.
> 
> As a philosopher he was fascinated by the Turing Test 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test>. 
> His key take-away was* *
> **
>>> *"... a lot of life is _pretending._*
>>>  
>>> *I know its a robot.*
>>> *It does not matter, *
>>>  
>>> _IF_* it helps me.*
>>> *If it helps I can FEEL it, so will give it credence.*
>>> *What is going on is that humans, programming machines,*
>>> *provide tools that understand some aspects of meaning-making."*
> 
> Chritian B's plugin may be a step towards that for TW.
> 
> Best wishes
> TT
> 
> 
> 

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[tw5] Re: Chatbot Plugin

[Ed Heil]

Off topic, but I'm fascinated to hear you worked with Eugene Gendlin!  His 
work, and that of his student Ann Weiser Cornell, have been very helpful to 
me, and I even really enjoyed his philosophical work, _Experiencing and the 
Creation of Meaning_, to the degree I understood it!

On Saturday, July 18, 2020 at 12:50:11 PM UTC-4, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
> Just FYI I worked with Gene Gendlin 
> , psychotherapist & 
> philosopher, for the last 15 years of his life. He witnessed Eliza as she 
> occurred. He was a colleague of Carl Rogers, founder of "person centered 
> psychtheraphy" that Eliza was meant to be a a parody of.
>
>  

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Re: [tw5] Re: Announcement: TW5-powered ebooks

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, Xavier!


On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 1:02:08 PM UTC-4, Xavier wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> Not yet ready because of some pressing redesign, but it will eventually be 
> released as a normal plugin, hopefully via some Community Plugin Library 
> that TW5 greatest minds have given thought to recently. 
>
> Cheers,
> -- Xavier Cazin
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 6:44 PM Ed Heil > 
> wrote:
>
>> Was the "epub slicer" ever released publicly? 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 at 6:33:57 AM UTC-4, Xavier Cazin wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> TL;DR: Go to 
>>> https://www.7switch.com/fr/ebook/9783962558772/great-expectations-serapis-classics,
>>>  
>>> click on "Read an extract" and play with it. Then come back if you'd like 
>>> to know more.
>>>
>>> I have been working in the publishing industry for the past 25 years, 
>>> including the last 10 years as the co-founder of a French ebook 
>>> distribution company, *immatériel.fr <http://xn--immatriel-f4a.fr>*. 
>>> Among many things that got me frustrated in the course of selling ebooks is 
>>> the fact that ebook formats have never been in phase with how we have 
>>> linked ourselves to knowledge in the two last decades.
>>>
>>>
>>> The main reason for this particular failure is because ePub and 
>>> Mobipocket were initially (around 2010) imposed to publishers by Apple and 
>>> Amazon respectively, and became soon the only digital formats that 
>>> publishers could sell to the main vendors (actually, Google Play Books also 
>>> sells PDF books). 
>>>
>>> While there are other reasons to rant about the current state of the 
>>> ebook market, I gave some thought about what could be a likeable modern 
>>> format for eBooks, and as you guessed, TiddlyWiki checked all the boxes:
>>>
>>>1. the book should be easy to open: the reading app could be the 
>>>same browser that you used to buy the book, whether you are on your 
>>> mobile 
>>>or at your desktop;
>>>2. it should be readable both offline or online;
>>>3. it should open at the same place where you stopped reading last 
>>>time;
>>>4. typesetting should be as beautiful and complex as a website can 
>>>be;
>>>5. content should be truly multimedia, including live content from 
>>>anywhere on the network. Audio books should be a mere byproduct of this 
>>>feature;
>>>6. authors should be allowed to multiply standpoints on its content;
>>>7. readers should be able to reorganise the initial content, and 
>>>also write above and around it;
>>>8. for the paranoids out there or those who missed Tim O'Reilly's 
>>>famous piece on piracy 
>>>
>>> <https://www.oreilly.com/content/piracy-is-progressive-taxation-and-other-thoughts-on-the-evolution-of-online-distribution/>
>>>  
>>>back in the days, book content should be easy to encrypt. Ebooks lending 
>>> to 
>>>libraries might actually be a good use case.
>>>
>>> So we at *immatériel.fr <http://xn--immatriel-f4a.fr>* considered that 
>>> this territory was worth exploring and we dedicated our 2019 R efforts 
>>> into building a TW5 alternative format for customers who were regularly 
>>> buying ePubs at our experimental bookstore *7switch.com 
>>> <http://7switch.com>*. We had to move forward on two fronts in parallel:
>>>
>>>- Converting our full catalog of 80K ePubs from more than 1000 
>>>(mostly French) publishers into TW5
>>>- Figuring a way to display books in an homogeneous way, yet 
>>>familiar enough for both people reading content on the Web and people 
>>> used 
>>>to ePub reading apps, while showing off their new TiddlyWiki nature.
>>>
>>> So I asked *Jeremy* if he'd welcome a sponsoring for such a project 
>>> through his company *Federatial* and, to my awe, he said yes of course! 
>>> Parallely, since I wasn't sure of how we should render the typical book 
>>> elements nor the typical features of an ebook reading app in a TW5 
>>> interface, I asked *JD*, one of our gifted community contributors to 
>>> TW5 user interfaces, for ideas and preliminary tests. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Soon enough, the three of us had regular meetings, that eventually led 
>>> to a *preliminary release* of seve

[tw5] Re: Announcement: TW5-powered ebooks

[Ed Heil]

Was the "epub slicer" ever released publicly? 


On Wednesday, March 11, 2020 at 6:33:57 AM UTC-4, Xavier Cazin wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> TL;DR: Go to 
> https://www.7switch.com/fr/ebook/9783962558772/great-expectations-serapis-classics,
>  
> click on "Read an extract" and play with it. Then come back if you'd like 
> to know more.
>
> I have been working in the publishing industry for the past 25 years, 
> including the last 10 years as the co-founder of a French ebook 
> distribution company, *immatériel.fr *. 
> Among many things that got me frustrated in the course of selling ebooks is 
> the fact that ebook formats have never been in phase with how we have 
> linked ourselves to knowledge in the two last decades.
>
>
> The main reason for this particular failure is because ePub and Mobipocket 
> were initially (around 2010) imposed to publishers by Apple and Amazon 
> respectively, and became soon the only digital formats that publishers 
> could sell to the main vendors (actually, Google Play Books also sells PDF 
> books). 
>
> While there are other reasons to rant about the current state of the ebook 
> market, I gave some thought about what could be a likeable modern format 
> for eBooks, and as you guessed, TiddlyWiki checked all the boxes:
>
>1. the book should be easy to open: the reading app could be the same 
>browser that you used to buy the book, whether you are on your mobile or 
> at 
>your desktop;
>2. it should be readable both offline or online;
>3. it should open at the same place where you stopped reading last 
>time;
>4. typesetting should be as beautiful and complex as a website can be;
>5. content should be truly multimedia, including live content from 
>anywhere on the network. Audio books should be a mere byproduct of this 
>feature;
>6. authors should be allowed to multiply standpoints on its content;
>7. readers should be able to reorganise the initial content, and also 
>write above and around it;
>8. for the paranoids out there or those who missed Tim O'Reilly's 
>famous piece on piracy 
>
> 
>  
>back in the days, book content should be easy to encrypt. Ebooks lending 
> to 
>libraries might actually be a good use case.
>
> So we at *immatériel.fr * considered that 
> this territory was worth exploring and we dedicated our 2019 R efforts 
> into building a TW5 alternative format for customers who were regularly 
> buying ePubs at our experimental bookstore *7switch.com 
> *. We had to move forward on two fronts in parallel:
>
>- Converting our full catalog of 80K ePubs from more than 1000 (mostly 
>French) publishers into TW5
>- Figuring a way to display books in an homogeneous way, yet familiar 
>enough for both people reading content on the Web and people used to ePub 
>reading apps, while showing off their new TiddlyWiki nature.
>
> So I asked *Jeremy* if he'd welcome a sponsoring for such a project 
> through his company *Federatial* and, to my awe, he said yes of course! 
> Parallely, since I wasn't sure of how we should render the typical book 
> elements nor the typical features of an ebook reading app in a TW5 
> interface, I asked *JD*, one of our gifted community contributors to TW5 
> user interfaces, for ideas and preliminary tests. 
>
>
> Soon enough, the three of us had regular meetings, that eventually led to 
> a *preliminary release* of several great open source products that are 
> now embedded into every non-DRM books and extracts that you'll find at the 
> *7switch* ebookstore:
>
>1. The first one is already included in the current prerelease of TW5: 
>the dynaview plugin 
>
>  
>allows content to come into view dynamically in response to familiar 
>gestures like scrolling.
>2. Next comes the *dynannotate* plugin, which will soon make its way 
>to 5.1.22, and is already included in books and extracts that you can find 
>on *7switch*. With it, you can annotate content in a various number of 
>ways.
>3. Then you'll find the *ePub-slicer* plugin, a tool to convert any 
>ePub file into a plugin that essentially contains a list of small content 
>chunks (aka tiddlers!) which can be revealed during the scroll as you read 
>the book in the browser. Thanks to their plugin nature, not only multiple 
>converted books can be hosted in a single TW5 file, but also one can 
>override book content without fear, since the original shadow tiddlers 
>could be retrieved at any time. Note that the HTML parsing is not yet 
>complete, as we'd like to be able to parse any ePub, whether their content 
>has been well semantised or not. So 

Re: [tw5] Personal News

[Ed Heil]

Thanks for letting us know, Jeremy, wishing you a good recovery and no more 
"dips"!

On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 3:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Thank you again, reading these messages is a great comfort for me and my 
> family. Things dipped a bit earlier this week and I ended up briefly in 
> hospital. Happily they just did a bunch of tests and an x-ray, none of 
> which showed the bad things that they feared, and so they sent me home 
> again, and I've been stable since then. The main problem now is the 
> exhaustion, which is actually a devastating nightmare remix of some of the 
> individual symptoms of exhaustion, capricious and unintuitive. Now I'm 
> reading other peoples coronavirus diaries and learning more about how to 
> handle it -- I'd welcome any references you may have come across.
>
> If things continue I could imagine in a week or two being able to do a 
> little work each day, just keeping my fingers crossed, and not risking 
> things by trying to do too much too early.
>
> In the meantime, my thanks and best wishes to everyone,
>
> Jeremy
>
>

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[tw5] Repeated externalizing images

[Ed Heil]

I just ran across a painful "gotcha."

I have a tiddlywiki with some external images, created by running a command 
like this -- https://tiddlywiki.com/static/ExternalImages.html

I added a few more images by dragging and dropping, and then decided I 
wanted to externalize them again.  So I ran the script again.  Copied the 
contents of output/images to my existing images/ directory, and thought I 
was good.

Unfortunately all of my existing externalized images just got destroyed  -- 
replaced by zero-length files.

When you run that image-externalizer command, it tries to make external 
copies *even of the images that are already external*.  Those tiddlers have 
no content, so files are created with the name of the image, and filled 
with that "nothing".  When I copied them back out of the output directory 
to the image directory, the empty files overwrote the regular ones.

Luckily I had backups!  But yikes.  Externalizing already-externalized 
images is bad news!

This seems to do the job right:

tiddlywiki --load $tiddlyfile --savetiddlers 
'[is[image]!has[_canonical_uri]]' images --setfield 
'[is[image]!has[_canonical_uri]]' _canonical_uri $:/core/templates/canonical
-uri-external-image text/plain --setfield '[is[image]!has[_canonical_uri]]' 
text "" text/plain --rendertiddler $:/core/save/all $tiddlyfile text/plain



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[tw5] Re: String concatenated to macro as attribute of tag

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, folks!  I thought I had tried the "feed it into a macro through a 
variable" trick but apparently I didn't quite get it right.  I like the 
idea of a more precise and specific log field, too, that's great!

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:29:37 PM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> I would also enhance Marks Solution with one more field in the new tiddler 
> actionWidget
> log-date=<>
>
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> 
> tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]" log-date=<> >
>
> Then it will be far easier to interrogate the date of log entries going 
> forward. You could even change the title to be more reader friendly because 
> you have the real and editable date in the log-date field.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 7:25:23 AM UTC+10, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Yes, concatenation can be confusing. Often you have to take the different 
>> pieces, and then put them together in a macro. 
>> This version seems to work:
>>
>> \define dream-log-title()
>> Dream Log $(today)$
>> \end
>> \define dream-log-button()
>> <$vars today=<> >
>> <$button>New Dream Log
>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> 
>> tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]">
>> 
>> 
>> \end
>>
>> <>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 2:01:34 PM UTC-7, Ed Heil wrote:
>>>
>>> This has been driving me batty and makes me hope there is a simple 
>>> solution I'm missing.
>>>
>>> I have a button which is supposed to create a new tiddler named "Dream 
>>> Log -MM-DD" tagged with the current tiddler.
>>>
>>> It looks like this and NEARLY works:
>>>
>>> \define dream-log-button()
>>> <$button>New Dream Log
>>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<>> -0MM-0DD">> tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]">
>>> 
>>> \end
>>>
>>> <>
>>>
>>> The only problem is, if you click the button after noon, it creates a 
>>> tiddler titled "Drepm Log 2020-05-26" because "am" is significant to the 
>>> "now" macro.
>>>
>>> I've been going in circles trying to figure out how to concatenate the 
>>> string "Dream Log " to the result of the macro call <> 
>>> and feed that into the "title" attribute of the action-sendmessage.  But 
>>> I'm not quite getting it.  I figure I must be missing something simple, 
>>> since this seems like a simple thing.
>>>
>>> I've tried this:
>>>
>>> \define dream-log-title()
>>> Dream Log <>
>>> \end
>>> \define dream-log-button()
>>> <$button>New Dream Log
>>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> 
>>> tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]">
>>> 
>>> \end
>>>
>>>
>>> but that just gives me a tiddler named "Dream Log <>"
>>>
>>> I've been banging around switching <<>> for <$macrocall>s, creating 
>>> variables and trying to interpolate them into macros, and so on, but so far 
>>> haven't got it right.
>>>
>>> Can somebody point me in the right direction?
>>>
>>

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[tw5] String concatenated to macro as attribute of tag

[Ed Heil]

This has been driving me batty and makes me hope there is a simple solution 
I'm missing.

I have a button which is supposed to create a new tiddler named "Dream Log 
-MM-DD" tagged with the current tiddler.

It looks like this and NEARLY works:

\define dream-log-button()
<$button>New Dream Log
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]">

\end

<>

The only problem is, if you click the button after noon, it creates a 
tiddler titled "Drepm Log 2020-05-26" because "am" is significant to the 
"now" macro.

I've been going in circles trying to figure out how to concatenate the 
string "Dream Log " to the result of the macro call <> 
and feed that into the "title" attribute of the action-sendmessage.  But 
I'm not quite getting it.  I figure I must be missing something simple, 
since this seems like a simple thing.

I've tried this:

\define dream-log-title()
Dream Log <>
\end
\define dream-log-button()
<$button>New Dream Log
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title=<> 
tags="[[$(currentTiddler)$]]">

\end


but that just gives me a tiddler named "Dream Log <>"

I've been banging around switching <<>> for <$macrocall>s, creating 
variables and trying to interpolate them into macros, and so on, but so far 
haven't got it right.

Can somebody point me in the right direction?

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Re: [tw5] Re: [Presenting]: STROLL official rollout!

[Ed Heil]

David,

On the issue of the autocomplete -- it might be worth calling out in the 
tutorial that the autocomplete plugin won't work on iOS, or anyplace you don't 
have arrow keys, as this will be a problem for people using it, e.g., through 
Quine 2.  It's also not trivial to disable it; you can't just disable the 
plugin, you need to go find the shadowed tiddler which replaces the regular 
editor with the autocompleting editor, and delete the shadowing tiddler.  (I 
learned that from reading the Autocomplete docs.)  That's not something a 
beginner would have any idea how to do so it might be an unnecessary hurdle.

One other thing I would have liked to see in the tutorial -- I was thinking 
about whether I just wanted to add the backlink plugin to my existing 
tiddlywiki.  The tutorial tells me what the backlink plugin does -- but it 
doesn't tell me what it *doesn't* do that the full Stroll install *does* do.  
So I didn't feel like I had the information I needed to make that choice.

Just a couple suggestions.  Again, I'm very enthusiastic about Stroll!

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[tw5] Re: [Presenting]: STROLL official rollout!

[Ed Heil]

This is outstanding.  I feel like it could completely transform how one 
works with tiddlywikis.

Right now it feels like the learning path for a new tiddlywiki user is

* use links because they're easy and basic
* realize you can't rename tiddlers without a lot of work -- grab a plugin 
to fix it, or start looking into tags, which do auto-renaming completely
* realize a lot of the most powerful ways of linking things together 
involves tags, because a tag establishes a two-way link between the tag 
tiddler and the tagged tiddler, and the relationship persists through 
renames.

At least, that was the path for me.

But there's a discontinuity between fluent "writing and linking" and 
"learning to do things effectively with tags" which requires effort to 
cross.

With this, you get a lot of the benefits that right now require tags, 
without having to make that extra jump of learning.  It keeps things more 
traditionally wiki-like, text-oriented.

I wonder if the future of Tiddlywiki is going to involve incorporating some 
kind of backlinking.

One small downside for me: it's a bummer that the autocomplete plugin 
doesn't allow you to just click on one of the completions, as opposed to 
moving down onto them with arrow keys, because I'm often on mobile where I 
have no arrow keys.  Oh well, I can disable that, it's a peripheral issue.  
I appreciate the fact that it was called out in the tutorial so I knew what 
was going on there.

Anyway, congratulations on this achievement.


On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-4, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> Stroll is a TiddlyWiki adaptation imitating certain features of Roam to 
> help users easily see connections between their notes and navigate between 
> them. Features include:
>
>- bi-directional links, 
>- autocompletion when linking, 
>- renaming of links upon changing tiddler titles, 
>- side-by-side editing of multiple notes. 
>
> Stroll is the successor to TiddlyBlink. I do not plan to update 
> TiddlyBlink (or its cousin Idea Stew) from here on out, except may be to 
> upgrade to new versions of TiddlyWiki.
>
> I have uploaded Stroll to its official home: 
> https://giffmex.org/stroll/stroll.html.
>
> I am hoping that its detailed tutorial will help introduce TiddlyWiki to a 
> new generation of non-techy users. I am also hoping that its similarity to 
> Roam will make it attractive to those who enjoy Roam but are concerned 
> about privacy issues for some of their information, or who won't be able to 
> afford Roam when it begins charging a subscription.
>
> Thank you to everyone who gave me feedback during the experimental phase, 
> and especially to Saq Imtiaz for creating and adapting his Stories plugin 
> for Stroll's needs. And thanks to all of you *in advance* for your 
> continued feedback and your promotion of Stroll as an easy way of getting 
> people added to the TiddlyWiki community.
>
> Blessings.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Notion encourages busy work

[Ed Heil]

In my very short acquaintance with TiddlyWiki I've had the following arc so 
far: 

* use the basic tools: mainly linking, simple transclusion

* learn how to do some complicated stuff (this took a lot of effort for me) 
(no, seriously, a LOT of effort)

* discover that there are built-in ways to do a lot of of the complicated 
stuff I was learning how to do, like, I went to a lot of trouble to learn 
about making my own buttons that create new tiddlers with tags, and then I 
realize that "New Tiddler Here" does that anyway.  Learn how to write 
clever list widget stuff and realize that 90% of the time {{{ 
[tag[something]] }}} does everything I really care about.  That kind of 
thing.

* spend the majority of my time using built-in stuff and strategically get 
clever only when I want something special.


On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 9:05:47 AM UTC-4, Diego Mesa wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I came across this article on HN today and found the comments to be an 
> interesting look into a "competitor". As people are explaining their gripes 
> with Notion, this could represent a big opportunity for TW! 
>
> Article: 
>
> https://medium.com/diesdas-direct/notion-encourages-busy-work-and-im-tired-of-it-b1e049edb663
>
> HN comments:
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23050204
>
> Diego
>

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[tw5] Re: I want to edit something, oh no that's a transclusion

[Ed Heil]

Hi Tony,

This is very neat.  That list widget doesn't seem to work for me though, I 
don't ever see the edit button if I put it inside that widget.

On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 7:12:46 PM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> If you are going to Role your own, this simple tip may help.
>
> View Template buttons are designed to operate on the current tiddler. So 
> if you transclude them allowing it to operate on the current tiddler they 
> work.
>
> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>
> So if you generate a list and include this you will gain a little edit 
> button that will open the current tiddler (in the list) if clicked
>
> With transcluded content if you transclude as follows
> {{External content}}
>
> the transcluded tiddler is the current tiddler inside the transclusion.
> So inside [[External content]] `{{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}` will make 
> a button, if clicked, will edit "External Content" tiddler.
>
> So if you make a global macro as follows
> \define optional-edit()
> <$list filter="[{$:/config/edit-mode}match[yes]]" variable=nul>
>{{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
> 
> \end
> and place <>
> at the bottom of your external content tiddlers, those transcluded in the 
> original tiddler, the edit button will appear only if
> {$:/config/edit-mode}match[yes]
>
> I know this would be better with out the need to place something in the 
> excised tiddlers, and I have a mechanism I discovered but needs more work. 
> Its based on Parsing the output of 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/#transclusion%20Variable
>
> Regards
> Tony
>

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[tw5] Re: I want to edit something, oh no that's a transclusion

[Ed Heil]

These are all very helpful, thanks!

Inline editing of transcluded content is overkill as far as my needs are 
concerned -- I just want to visually identify what's transcluded and get to 
it easily.  I should be able to whip up a good simple solution from the 
ideas in this thread.

On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:17:45 AM UTC-4, Ed Heil wrote:
>
> This is something that often happens to me: I want to update text in a 
> tiddler, and when I get in there, I see that text is actually a 
> {{transclusion}} -- possibly one I made using excision.  Now I have to 
> remember what the name of the transclusion is, close the tiddler, go to the 
> search bar, put in the name of the transclusion, find it and go edit it.
>
> It feels like this is high-friction.  Am I missing something that would 
> make it easier?
>
> I seem to remember there's a built-in template which shows that something 
> is a transclusion, that I maybe could use instead of plain transclusion.  I 
> can't find it right now.  But I remember it was pretty loud/visually 
> obtrusive and was not something I would want to use in most cases.
>
> I could write my own transclusion template which includes the transcluded 
> content, plus an unobtrusive link to the tiddler being transcluded, so I 
> could quickly go there and edit it.  It just feels like this is a common 
> enough problem that there might be a built-in solution I'm not aware of, 
> and I thought I'd ask before rolling my own.
>

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[tw5] I want to edit something, oh no that's a transclusion

[Ed Heil]

This is something that often happens to me: I want to update text in a 
tiddler, and when I get in there, I see that text is actually a 
{{transclusion}} -- possibly one I made using excision.  Now I have to 
remember what the name of the transclusion is, close the tiddler, go to the 
search bar, put in the name of the transclusion, find it and go edit it.

It feels like this is high-friction.  Am I missing something that would 
make it easier?

I seem to remember there's a built-in template which shows that something 
is a transclusion, that I maybe could use instead of plain transclusion.  I 
can't find it right now.  But I remember it was pretty loud/visually 
obtrusive and was not something I would want to use in most cases.

I could write my own transclusion template which includes the transcluded 
content, plus an unobtrusive link to the tiddler being transcluded, so I 
could quickly go there and edit it.  It just feels like this is a common 
enough problem that there might be a built-in solution I'm not aware of, 
and I thought I'd ask before rolling my own.

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[tw5] Re: search text saved

[Ed Heil]

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 12:07:56 PM UTC-4, Eric Shulman wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 8:39:44 AM UTC-7, Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>> some way to specify that search box contents/results do not have to be 
>> saved as part of the wiki state?
>>
>
> The sidebar search input is stored in *$:/temp/search*,
> and the $:/AdvancedSearch input is stored in *$:/temp/advancedsearch*
>
>

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[tw5] search text saved

[Ed Heil]

I've come up against this minor annoyance a lot...  I'll save a tiddlywiki, 
and then upload it to someplace public, and when I visit it there, I notice 
that I left some search text in the search box and now the results are 
popping up.  (They won't have been visible when I was editing it because I 
clicked out of the results box, which is why I forgot them.)

Is there any way around this besides "remember to delete the search box 
contents and save before you upload"?   Maybe some way to specify that 
search box contents/results do not have to be saved as part of the wiki 
state?  Or if they are saved, the results don't have to be displayed on 
page load?  Or failing that, maybe some simple tiddlywiki command line that 
I can run to programmatically remove them before I upload? 

Just thought I'd check.

Thanks,

Ed

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Re: [tw5] Re: Ride the Wave

[Ed Heil]

That's exactly what I was thinking of!  Thank you, I wish I'd found that 
earlier!

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:54:05 AM UTC-4, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Ed, I remember recently seeing just such a cheatsheet posted somewhere 
> from a link in this forum. So I know it exists...
>
> This is an older one, probably only for non-noobies: 
> http://tobibeer.github.io/tb5/#Variables%20vs.%20Parameters
>
>  

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Re: [tw5] Re: Ride the Wave

[Ed Heil]

Same re: Tiddlyspot, the SSL issue is kinda a big deal.

With regards to intros to tiddlywiki, I wanted to throw the following out 
there to the community

In terms of intros/guides to Tiddlywiki, one of the things that's been a 
thorn in my side while learning is all the various kinds of brackets and 
where you use them!  It seems like there are a dozen different contexts in 
which you use one, two, or three square brackets, angle brackets, or curly 
brackets -- not to mention widget tags -- and it's not always clear to a 
newbie which can go inside which.  (It's not always 100% clear to me and I 
feel like I've risen above "newbie" at this point).

The answers are all within the tiddlywiki web site but it's sometimes hard 
to find the answers if you don't know how to phrase the question.

I think a hugely valuable resource to "people trying to rise above the 
level of newbie" would be a cheat sheet to what kind of markup is 
appropriate in what kind of context.  This would be especially valuable to 
people like me who have experience in programming and markup in some other 
context but find out that the way things work in tiddlywiki is unique and 
not always what they expected from other contexts.

So I could scan the list and notice that in a filter I use <> {} to get to 
variables and textrefs, in a macro definition I use $this$ and $(that)$ to 
get to parameter and variables, in the attributes of a widget tag I use 
<> and {{{that}}} to get the results of a macro and the results of a 
filter expression... that kind of thing, maybe with links to the tiddlywiki 
website which explains each piece.

Again, that wouldn't be helpful for complete newbies but it'd be a valuable 
resource for somebody who's just started to learn the complicated stuff and 
is running into problems using the wrong kind of markup in the wrong places.

Maybe someday I'll write for myself the resource that I wish were available 
to me while learning

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:06:21 AM UTC-4, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:
>
> Thank you! I actually started typing a paragraph about TiddlySpot and 
> removed it. The reason why I didn't include is that there's no SSL/HTTPs, 
> and many people are looking at Roam alternatives mainly for privacy 
> reasons. Is it something that will get addressed at some point, maybe with 
> LetsEncrypt?
>
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 10:14 Mat, > wrote:
>
>> If I were a noob, I'd want to hear about Tiddlyspot 
>>  which allows free hosting of TW's. It has been 
>> the go-to solution for many people over the years, including myself, and 
>> native TW has a built-in saver for it (Controlpanel > Saving > Tiddlyspot). 
>> The point is to get an online wiki, so it is possible to make it public 
>> even if it also has a site password feature. 
>>
>> Tiddlyspot was originally made for what we now refer to as TWC (TW 
>> Classic) so the premade options to choose from when setting up a tiddlyspot 
>> only has "TWC variants" - so I made a kind of "iframe-skin" to set up a TW5 
>> on Tiddlyspot: http://tiddlywiki5.tiddlyspot.com 
>>
>> ...even my aunt could set up a public TW via this page, which is not the 
>> case for e.g github or "hosting my own server" etc.
>>
>> I have no affiliation with the cousins Simon and Daniel Baird who are the 
>> brains behind Tiddlyspot and who (incredibly) generously have provided us 
>> with this for well over a decade.
>>
>> <:-)
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Ride the Wave

[Ed Heil]

(although I see that the tutorial shows how to export to a static site, 
something which you want to use Node for)

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:14:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Heil wrote:
>
> Yes, after going through a lot of back and forth about which save method I 
> should use when I first started messing with tw's, I've landed on 
> TiddlyDesktop (and Quine2 for iOS) -- It's zero-friction; the only issues 
> seem to be dragging and dropping things from other tiddlywikis.
>
> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Why node and not TiddlyDesktop? 
>>
>> With classic node, you can only run one TW file at a time. Or you have to 
>> open a second command box and launch another. It requires steps to install 
>> node, and then tiddlywiki, and then to initialize your files. 
>>
>> With TiddlyDesktop, everything works pretty much like a typical Desktop 
>> app that you download and install.
>>
>>>
>>>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Ride the Wave

[Ed Heil]

Yes, after going through a lot of back and forth about which save method I 
should use when I first started messing with tw's, I've landed on 
TiddlyDesktop (and Quine2 for iOS) -- It's zero-friction; the only issues 
seem to be dragging and dropping things from other tiddlywikis.

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 7:44:35 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Why node and not TiddlyDesktop? 
>
> With classic node, you can only run one TW file at a time. Or you have to 
> open a second command box and launch another. It requires steps to install 
> node, and then tiddlywiki, and then to initialize your files. 
>
> With TiddlyDesktop, everything works pretty much like a typical Desktop 
> app that you download and install.
>
> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 3:21:21 PM UTC-7, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:
>>
>> Hey Dave!
>>
>> To me the goal of the "proper install" is to not have to deal with saving 
>> and re-saving the file all the time, and I want to make sure the user 
>> understands that, and why it's worth going through the hassle of installing 
>> Node. I do want the tutorial to be easy, but I want people to understand 
>> why they're doing what they're doing. What do you think?
>>
>> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:06:32 PM UTC+1, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Anne-Laure
>>>
>>> Looking at your tutorial - you suggest the user download the file and 
>>> play with it. Then later you give the "proper" instructions.
>>>
>>> But there is no way to save changes at that point if they have just 
>>> downloaded it. Wouldn't it be better to have them play with it in the 
>>> online empty version just to get familiar with it? Then go through the 
>>> download and 'how to save changes' processes?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:58 PM Anne-Laure Le Cunff  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm working on a step-by-step getting started tutorial — you can see me 
 work on it live here 
 .
  
 :)

 On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 10:36:01 PM UTC+1, David Gifford wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:14 PM Mohammad  wrote:
>
>> Good news!
>>
>> On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:57:07 PM UTC+4:30, David Gifford 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> FYI 
>>>
>>> Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an influencer with 10,000+ subscribers, and 
>>> is already promoting TiddlyWiki on her website and on Twitter. (Thank 
>>> you!!!) See her article here: 
>>> https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives
>>>
>>
>> Really great!
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also seen other, seemingly unrelated interest in TiddlyWiki 
>>> because of Roam Research, and perhaps my stuff and TiddlyRoam have had 
>>> something to do with that.
>>>
>>> So be prepared for a wave of new people coming here with questions! 
>>> And possibly some really great hacks and plugins and ideas.
>>>
>>
>> This is amazing!
>>  
>>
>>>
>>> This could be a big moment in TiddlyWiki's history. But it will 
>>> probably require patience, time and effort as the questions multiply 
>>> for a 
>>> while. This is a curve we don't want to see flatten quickly.
>>>
>>
>> Dave, I think the tiddlywiki.com should answer many question! But 
>> the landing page is crowded with different materials and non technical 
>> newcomers confuse! The description in the first paragraph needs to be 
>> revised. A linear quick tutorial with simple navigation at the bottom 
>> (previous | next ) is helpful!
>>
>
> *Yes, I agree the landing page could use some work. But the issue of 
> how to save changes cannot be avoided. Hard to know what to do about 
> that.*
>
>>
>> I frequently heard people learn Tiddlywiki through works by other 
>> (example wikis and docs) and not from tiddlywiki.com
>>
>>>
>>> *I have too. Just today, in fact.*
>  
>
>> Blessings.
>>>
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>> .
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[tw5] Re: Tiddly Sunshine

[Ed Heil]

Hey, I'm doing exactly that (keeping a COVID-19 journal with Tiddlywiki). 
 It's mostly not a personal journal, but a collection of everything I learn 
about the pandemic from news and such, though there's a little personal 
experience in there too.  It's been a great way to learn about the system, 
as I find more and more things to switch from doing by hand ad hoc to 
organizing things and adding clever tricks.  My most recent triumph was 
figuring out how to use math filters to create a table of daily percentage 
increases in cases and deaths, based on entering those in daily tiddler 
fields.  (What a grim thing to have a "triumph" about... but getting these 
numbers has allowed me to see the positive effect of my state's 
stay-at-home orders on the rate of increase.)

I find that if I make a collection of all the news I learn, I don't feel 
like I have to keep it all in my head or post it all to social media or 
anything like that.  I have it set down in a dedicated space where it will 
be there if I need it.


On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:57:52 PM UTC-4, Ste Wilson wrote:
>
> My boy has to keep a covid 19 journal while school is closed so obviously 
> I thought... TIDDLY TIME! 
> I've set him up with a journal tiddlywiki running from tiddly desktop and 
> he seems very pleased with it. 
> When I showed him how to transclude a tiddler so he could short cut 
> writing about p.e with Joe Wicks every day he was very very happy :)
> Tiddlywiki.. Making lock down better! 
>

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[tw5] "Retain Story Ordering"

[Ed Heil]

There's a button that lets you "retain story ordering" in a new Wiki.  I 
can't find documentation as to what that means anywhere.  The effect of it 
is to put make the default tiddlers "[list[$:/StoryList]]" which I assume 
means that the default stories are defined by the list attribute of a 
tiddler named $:/StoryList but I'm not sure what the intended effect is 
there?

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Re: [tw5] Re: new tiddler with tag button

[Ed Heil]

Yeah, that seems like the best way to go. Great, thank you, that's what I 
suspected all along, but the example made me wonder!

-- 
 Ed Heil
 edh...@fastmail.fm


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, at 3:14 PM, Mat wrote:
> Ed, turns out you're right; the example 
> <https://tiddlywiki.com/#WidgetMessage%3A%20tm-new-tiddler> does propose 
> tagging the template with a particular tag. Instead what you do is this:
> 
> <$button>
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" $param="TaskTemplate" 
> tags="mytag"/>
> New Tiddler
> 
> 

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Re: [tw5] Re: new tiddler with tag button

[Ed Heil]

Well, I'm going by the example in the official docs, in which the template has 
the desired tag already. I'm pointing out that that example would have 
undesired consequences, and wondering if there is something about it I'm 
missing, because to avoid those undesired consequences, you have to do 
something slightly more complicated than the example.

"It's just an example, and for the reasons you give, you might not want to 
actually do it that way" is an acceptable answer, if that is the case. :)

-- 
 Ed Heil
 edh...@fastmail.fm


On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, at 12:25 AM, Mat wrote:

> No it won't, unless you tag it "task" which there is no reason to do... 
> unless it's a task... which you indicate that it is not. If you feel a need 
> to tag it, maybe "template" is better. Or maybe I still misunderstand you.
> 
> <:-) 
> 

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[tw5] Re: iOS Users, Rejoice! Quine 2 is here

[Ed Heil]

This is the best thing in the history of things. It was the one missing 
thing to make TW a part of my computing everywhere.

I'm glad the thing that is exatly what I wished for 

 
turned out to exist and to be only a week or so from completion when I 
wished for it.

On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 10:06:36 PM UTC-4, Arlen Beiler wrote:
>
> Not to steal any thunder from Chris Hunt, but I think this deserves a 
> cross post.
>
> Quine 2 is "Ready for Sale" and will appear in the App Store almost 
> immediately.
>
> Sincere thanks to all of the beta testers - it's been so important to have 
> their critical eyes on the App over the last couple of months. They've been 
> a huge help.
>
> I hope Quine 2 doesn't disappoint. As mentioned previously, it has been my 
> primary App on the iPad for over a year now at the same time as I've been 
> refining it and moving over to iOS 13 for multi-window support. 
>
> I am biased of course but for my purposes TiddlyWiki and now Quine 2 are 
> what make the iPad into a productive platform for my needs - ESPECIALLY 
> with multi-window support.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Chris.
>
> P.S. from Arlen: 
>
> This app integrates with the iOS Files app allowing you to access files in 
> cloud storage apps. This means you can edit your files in your Dropbox 
> directly inside Quine 2 and the Dropbox app immediately saves your changes 
> back to Dropbox. It looks like the Google Drive app also has this 
> integration. I think any cloud storage worth their salt probably does.
>
> Another app which lets you integrate with many cloud storage providers, as 
> well as network shares, is FE File Explorer Pro 
> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fe-file-explorer-pro/id499470113
>
> This is a great day to be an iOS user!
>
>

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[tw5] Re: new tiddler with tag button

[Ed Heil]

I probably explained poorly!  It made sense in my head at the time.

OK, look at the example for the tm-new-tiddler message:

https://tiddlywiki.com/#WidgetMessage%3A%20tm-new-tiddler

To make a button that creates new tiddlers tagged "task", create a tiddler 
> called "TaskTemplate <https://tiddlywiki.com/#TaskTemplate>" with that 
> tag, and then make your button like this:
> <$button message="tm-new-tiddler" param="TaskTemplate">New Task


Why would you want to do that?  If you have a tiddler named TaskTemplate 
it's always going to show up whenever you filter on tasks ([tag[task]]) 
unless you explicitly filter it out ([tag[task]![TaskTemplate]]). Seems 
like a bad way to go.

So I always use a button with an actual ActionSendWidget inside it so I can 
have it set the tag at creation time.

I'm wondering if I'm missing some way you could use a template without 
running across that inconvenience, of the template showing up whenever you 
were looking for the actual thing it's a template for.

Does that make any sense?

If not, no worries -- it is kind of a trivial matter.



On Thursday, March 19, 2020 at 3:05:54 PM UTC-4, Mat wrote:
>
> Ed Heil wrote:
>>
>> That's cool, I can make a NewTicketTemplate with that tag already added! 
>>  But wait, if I do that, that template is going to show up every time I 
>> list tickets unless I explicity exclude it. 
>
>
> There are some fundamental presumptions in what you describe that I don't 
> get. What do you mean with a "template showing up"? Do you mean the button? 
> Are you talking about a ViewTemplate or what template? And why does it 
> sound like you make the button merely to temporarily make a list appear?
>
> <:-)
>  
>
>

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[tw5] new tiddler with tag button

[Ed Heil]

Something I find myself doing often, when I have a tiddler that lists other 
tiddlers with a tag, is create a button which makes a new tiddler with that tag 
pre-populated.  For example, on a page that lists tickets, a button that makes 
new tickets.

The way I usually do that is with an action message widget, so that I can do 
something like this:

> <$button>New Ticket
>  <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-new-tiddler" title="New Ticket"  
> tags="ticket" />
> 

But it'd be nice if I could tuck all that into the button tag instead of 
needing a separate action-sendmessage tag.  But all I can do inside a button is 
pass one parameter to the tm-new-tiddler message, and that must be a name of a 
template.

That's cool, I can make a NewTicketTemplate with that tag already added!  But 
wait, if I do that, that template is going to show up every time I list tickets 
unless I explicity exclude it.  That's a way bigger drag than having to do the 
action-sendmessage.

I'm just wondering, have I correctly assessed my options, or is there an easier 
still way to do this?

Obviously I can make the whole problem (which isn't much of a problem) go away 
with a macro, I'm just wondering if I'm missing some clever tiddlywiki-fu that 
would make the template idea work better.

Thanks,

Ed

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Re: [tw5] TW on iOS

[Ed Heil]

Outstanding.  Thank you!


On Monday, March 9, 2020 at 4:23:03 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi Ed
>
> Chris Hunt is now working on Quine 2, which is built around the new iOS 11 
> and 13 file APIs, much as you suggest. There’s a TestFlight beta, more 
> details in Quine’s own Google Group here:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quine-app/p9HHP8G-37A
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> On 9 Mar 2020, at 17:19, Ed Heil > wrote:
>
> I've been having a ton of fun with tiddlywikis lately; the only thing 
> that's been getting me down is using them on iOS, which is a pain.  There's 
> the Quine app which is neat, but wish I could do more. 
>
> What I'm thinking of is the fact that as of iOS 11, it was possible for 
> the Files app to hand off a file to another application to open *and 
> modify*, saving the modified version back to the Files app.  
>
> All *kinds* of things expose themselves to the Files app; iCloud, Dropbox, 
> and with the right apps to connect them, even github repositories and sftp 
> shares.
>
> A tiddlywiki app which took advantage of this could be incredibly 
> versatile.  It would essentially just have to be a special-purpose browser 
> for displaying the tiddlywikis, and then a mechanism for receiving the 
> "saves" probably equivalent to whatever TiddlyDesktop is doing (I don't 
> know what that is) which writes them back to the original location via 
> Files's api.
>
> I don't suppose such a thing exists? 
>
> I have a small amount of iOS programming knowledge, and if I dropped the 
> money on an Apple developer's certificate and put enough work into it I 
> might be able to make something like this myself (always easier to say than 
> to do of course).  But it'd sure be nice if somebody else had already done 
> it
>
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>
>
>

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[tw5] TW on iOS

[Ed Heil]

I've been having a ton of fun with tiddlywikis lately; the only thing that's 
been getting me down is using them on iOS, which is a pain.  There's the Quine 
app which is neat, but wish I could do more. 

What I'm thinking of is the fact that as of iOS 11, it was possible for the 
Files app to hand off a file to another application to open *and modify*, 
saving the modified version back to the Files app.  

All *kinds* of things expose themselves to the Files app; iCloud, Dropbox, and 
with the right apps to connect them, even github repositories and sftp shares.

A tiddlywiki app which took advantage of this could be incredibly versatile.  
It would essentially just have to be a special-purpose browser for displaying 
the tiddlywikis, and then a mechanism for receiving the "saves" probably 
equivalent to whatever TiddlyDesktop is doing (I don't know what that is) which 
writes them back to the original location via Files's api.

I don't suppose such a thing exists? 

I have a small amount of iOS programming knowledge, and if I dropped the money 
on an Apple developer's certificate and put enough work into it I might be able 
to make something like this myself (always easier to say than to do of course). 
 But it'd sure be nice if somebody else had already done it

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Re: [tw5] Re: ExternalizeImages - having trouble

[Ed Heil]

Oh wow thank you!  Putting that at the top of my reading list!

> On Mar 4, 2020, at 12:00 AM, Donald Coates  wrote:
> 
> 
> Just discovered that site myself and it's awesome.  Also check out 'the book' 
> I am finding it very informative even as a wip.  Welcome to the obsession!  
> External Images were always a bit of a conundrum for me as well.
> 
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[tw5] Re: ExternalizeImages - having trouble

[Ed Heil]

Welp, of course, as soon as you ask for help in public, you figure it out 
yourself.

I was reading this, hoping for info on build targets 
-- https://www.didaxy.com/exporting-static-sites-from-tiddlywiki-part-2

and I saw that there they were using commands like:

tiddlywiki --rendertiddlers [!is[system]tag[Live]] 
$:/core/templates/static.tiddler.html static text/plain --rendertiddler 
$:/core/templates/static.template.css static/static.css text/plain

where you throw a bunch of ---commandline --options onto a single 
invocation of the "tiddlywiki" command.

That was the problem, of course, and once I got rid of the multiple 
tiddlywiki commands and combined them all into one it worked!


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[tw5] Re: ExternalizeImages - having trouble

[Ed Heil]

Oh, I thought maybe I should try this with a build target instead of a 
shell script.

So I looked in the tiddlywiki.com docs for an example of build targets. 
 and couldn't find one.

The build *command* is described here 
-- https://tiddlywiki.com/#BuildCommand  -- but it doesn't talk about how 
to define build targets

It refers you to "tiddlywiki folders" here 
-- https://tiddlywiki.com/#TiddlyWikiFolders "for details of defining build 
targets."  But there are no details about defining build targets there; 
build targets are never mentioned.

Under the heading "tiddlywiki.info  Files"  here -- 
https://tiddlywiki.com/#tiddlywiki.info%20Files  we have the following info:

build - a hashmap of named build targets, each defined by an array of 
command tokens (see BuildCommand)

Of course, Buildcommand doesn't tell you anything about arrays of command 
tokens.

I assume from that description, since I know what JSON is and what hashmaps 
and arrays are, that we're looking for is something like:

{
"themes": [
"tiddlywiki/snowwhite",
"tiddlywiki/vanilla"
],
"build": {
  "externalimages": [

  ]
}
}

where what's in "externalimages" are a list of "command tokens" but 
"command tokens" are not mentioned anywhere else.

The documentation is pretty unhelpful here.

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[tw5] ExternalizeImages - having trouble

[Ed Heil]

Hey, new to tiddlywikis, moderatley obsessed.

I have a wiki with some images in it which I'd like to externalize, so I'm 
looking at the instructions here --

https://tiddlywiki.com/#ExternalImages

and I'm not getting them to work.  What I've done --

create a wikifolder to work in.

tiddlywiki --load mywiki.html --savewikifolder folder

I wrote a shell script to run the commands, like this:

#!/bin/bash


tiddlywiki --savetiddlers '[is[image]]' images

tiddlywiki --setfield '[is[image]]' _canonical_uri 
'$:/core/templates/canonical-uri-external-image' text/plain

tiddlywiki --setfield '[is[image]]' text "" text/plain

tiddlywiki --rendertiddler '$:/core/save/all' externalimages.html text/plain


Figuring I'd need to quote some of those arguments so the shell wouldn't do 
anything funny with them.

I run it, and it does indeed create a folder named images/ full of images, 
but it does *not* set the _canonical_uri field of the images, and it does 
*not* erase the text field of those images (neither in the tiddlers 
directory, nor the output/externalimages.html file).  

Is there an issue with the way I'm doing it?  It's a pretty vanilla 
tiddlywiki. The fact that the first part worked fine (save the images) but 
the rest of it (convert to canonical_uri) didn't work at all confuses me.

(This is on OS X).

Thanks for any help!

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