[twdev] Re: [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Marc J. Cawood]

Thanks Jeremy. I'm looking at using the `child_process` module but I don't 
see any node_modules/ folder in TW Desktop. Could you give me a leg up on 
how to import a module?

Bonus Question: If you could hack a small plugin which shows a button which 
execs say `ls` and returns (alerts) the string that would be awesome.

 const exec = require('child_process').exec;
 exec('ls', (err, stdout, stderr) => {
  if (err) {
   console.error(err);
   return;
  }
  console.log(stdout);
 });

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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Marc

> I could use NW.js but then I'd have to build my own UI. My thinking is: 
> could/should I use TW5 Desktop?

If you wish to build a native app based on TiddlyWiki then TiddlyDesktop might 
be a reasonable place to start. Alternately, you could consider just adding the 
enhancements you need as TiddlyDesktop plugins - it’s very extensible, like 
TiddlyWiki itself.

> Can TW be leveraged as an application platform which is not necessarily a 
> wiki (i.e. info platform).

It’ll still be a wiki, at least in the sense that TW uses the term (roughly, an 
application for composing hypertext). But it doesn’t need to look like a wiki 
to the end user; by replacing $:/core/ui/PageTemplate one can have an entirely 
custom user interface.

> I think TiddlyWiki would be a great platform for a rich/hypertext version of 
> the Powershell Help System/Reference. But I want to add on top of that and 
> have, in addition to the cmdlet reference, a kind of builder UI. So I can 
> search or navigate to a cmdlet, read it's syntax, see some examples AND run 
> those examples AND build my own execution of that cmdlet.
> 
> Ideally the UI will allow a preview of the output objects of cmdlets (using 
> the `ConvertTo-JSON` cmdlet) as tables or trees and piping these outputs to 
> other cmdlets. Even more betterer would be a kind of flowchart drag and drop 
> like snaplogic but that's a way down the line.
> 
> So, in addition to the questions above, can plugins within TW Desktop work 
> like standard node modules and require modules like `node-powershell` and 
> just execute OS commands?

Yes, TiddlyDesktop plugins have access to Node.js APIs.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Marc

> Thanks Jeremy. I'm looking at using the `child_process` module but I don't 
> see any node_modules/ folder in TW Desktop. Could you give me a leg up on how 
> to import a module?

TiddlyDesktop doesn’t use node_modules at the moment. You’ll need to research 
the details of how nw.js handles node_modules, but it definitely works.

> Bonus Question: If you could hack a small plugin which shows a button which 
> execs say `ls` and returns (alerts) the string that would be awesome.

It’s not a trivial amount of work, I’m afraid. There is no direct access 
between the TiddlyDesktop main process and the content of a wiki. To devise a 
way for the wiki to request that the main process executes a code fragment, you 
might want to to look at how saving is handled using the DOM for message 
transfer. You’d need to rig up something similar so that a hosted wiki can 
request that a code fragment be executed.

Just to be clear, your goals here are ambitious and unusual. I don’t know of 
anyone else who’s done the same thing. So there’s going to be quite a lot of 
slog to get there: you’ll need to learn a lot of the details of how things work 
so that you can copy/extend things. As a programmer, I’d say that it’s the 
recipe for absorbing entertainment, but it’s not for everyone :)

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
>  const exec = require('child_process').exec;
>  exec('ls', (err, stdout, stderr) => {
>   if (err) {
>console.error(err);
>return;
>   }
>   console.log(stdout);
>  });
> 
> 
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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Marc J. Cawood]

Well... naivety is one of my only virtues.

The following code works fine in standard nw.js and shows how the runtime 
is just browser+node:

Click Me!

I can even get `require('child_process').exec()` working without requiring 
any modules.

So why shouldn't this code run inside TiddlyDesktop?

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[twdev] Debugging TiddlyDesktop

[Marc J. Cawood]

Anyone able to debug (F12 Dev Tools) TiddlyWikis started with TiddlyDesktop?

F12 works from the Main part of TiddlyDesktop but this then launches the 
actual Wikis and they are not responding to F12 (nor right-click for that 
matter).

Perhaps TW is catching F12?

As a workaround, can I launch myownwiki.html directly with `nw`?

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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Marc J. Cawood]

Oh dear!
process is not defined

I see the wikis are not running as normal nw.js applications. How are you 
launching them?

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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Marc

> I see the wikis are not running as normal nw.js applications. How are you 
> launching them?

Wiki files are loaded in sandboxed iframes; they don't have access to Node.js 
features. The main process runs the backstage wiki, a privileged TiddlyWiki 
that runs in the background and provides the TiddlyDesktop user interface. That 
dichotomy lies behind my comment about needing to figure out a way to 
communicate between the two parts of the system.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Marc J. Cawood]

So I've been learning Powershell and it's pretty, well, powerful and, since 
August, open-source and cross platform. And it's not only for server 
operators. But enough asides...

Powershell is command-line-based and I like making a GUI on top of useful 
command-lines (as I have done with AWK and WGET) because I am forgetful 
about syntax and a UI, with built-in reference, which builds and runs 
commands from a few clicks is just better than typing (and mistyping) a lot.

My preference for the presentation would be HTML and my preference for the 
logic would be JavaScript. However, I need access directly to the operating 
system (no browser sandbox).

I could use NW.js but then I'd have to build my own UI. My thinking is: 
could/should I use TW5 Desktop? Can TW be leveraged as an application 
platform which is not necessarily a wiki (i.e. info platform).

I think TiddlyWiki would be a great platform for a rich/hypertext version 
of the Powershell Help System/Reference. But I want to add on top of that 
and have, in addition to the cmdlet reference, a kind of builder UI. So I 
can search or navigate to a cmdlet, read it's syntax, see some examples AND 
run those examples AND build my own execution of that cmdlet.

Ideally the UI will allow a preview of the output objects of cmdlets (using 
the `ConvertTo-JSON` cmdlet) as tables or trees and piping these outputs to 
other cmdlets. Even more betterer would be a kind of flowchart drag and 
drop like snaplogic but that's a way down the line.

So, in addition to the questions above, can plugins within TW Desktop work 
like standard node modules and require modules like `node-powershell` and 
just execute OS commands?

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[twdev] Re: "Namespacing" for plugins?

[PMario]

Hi David,

On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 2:03:53 AM UTC+2, David Szego wrote:
>
> I hereby nominate Tobias's excellent ` (backtick) macro and 
> <> macro as the standard by which we should all wrote our 
> plugin documentation to, and it should be part of the TW core so we can 
> just include the right pluginname-info / pluginname-syntax etc. Tiddlers 
> when we package up our plugins.
>

Not everything, that is a good fit for one usecase "documenting plugins", 
is a good fit for the general purpose core. I think it it good as it is: a 
plugin.

 ... BUT ... 

We definitely need to enhance the mechanism, how plugins can be explored 
and good plugins can be identified!

just some thoughts.
-mario

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Re: [twdev] [TW5] TiddlyWiki as an Application Platform for a Powershell GUI/IDE

[Marc J. Cawood]

A! The old security-kills-functionality. get's me every time. Sniff.

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