Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a “node” gives a reply (which it should not if it’s “node only” ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That’s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it’s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box “took” what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it’s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. — When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it’s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. — All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it “sees” from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola gps module. The Ref-0 just figures out what’s happening by watching those strings as they roll by. Hope that makes sense…. —— If that’s all true, it should be “easy” to put dummy gps sentences into the Ref-0 interface port and a pps from something else. Once it sees stuff that it likes, it will start locking up to that pps. Cheap micro and just about any modern gps = fancy new GPSDO. Quick / easy / not much work. A little more complex if you decide to translate sawtooth data. That of course assumes these boxes do anything with sawtooth ... Bob On Nov 6, 2014, at 7:52 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob I view the master/slave situation the same way you do, but only commented because Lucent effectively sets things up the other way round so just wanted to be sure which way Paul was considering it. As regards, the faking, yes, a single 15 way plug containing just a link and a resistor is exactly what I use now. I realise the RS422 fudge isn't ideal but certainly very handy for some quick tests. I've got two or three RS422 PCI interfaces but hadn't previously had any spare slots, now I've got a couple of lovely Magma 13 way PCI expansion units but need to hack them about so the ports are at the front. Whoever decided rack
Re: [time-nuts] Ball Efratom MFS-209 Rubidium GPS Frequency Standard Unit *MRK *MGPS*
Hi Changing the amp from 5 to 10 is not as easy as going the other way. There are lowpass filters on the distribution modules. Bob On Nov 6, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net wrote: Correction! The distribution is configured for 5 MHz, not 10. There is 10 MHz available on two front panel BNC connectors. However, I think that can change. I'm looking. Tom - Original Message - From: Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:58 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Ball Efratom MFS-209 Rubidium GPS Frequency Standard Unit *MRK *MGPS* This seller has three more of these units. They have a GPS disciplined OCXO and a disciplined Rb Osc. Normal operation used the Rb and fail over to a OCXO. Each unit has 28 output ports for the 10 MHz and 28 output ports for the 1-PPS all on the rear. The run on AC or 28 volts DC. Send a message to Gary for more info. The price is pretty good via make offer. However, they are heavy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/151461513139?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT#ht_416wt_902 Best regards, Tom WA3PZI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi When Satstat does the change, I’m sure it uses the correct command to do it. The syntax is a phrase followed by a numeric. You then use the same phrase followed by a question mark to see if it took it. The slave happy accepts the command, stores the data, and returns it when asked. A reasonable external program would indeed say “yup it did it”. With no serial com (that’s a guess not a proven) there is no way to change the GPS. The slave simply stores the data. The only alternative would be for it to reject virtually all commands over the Diag port. Much easier to just put a note in the manual than to disable all that code. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 12:02 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a “node” gives a reply (which it should not if it’s “node only”). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That’s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it’s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box “took” what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it’s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. — When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it’s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. — All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it “sees” from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola gps module. The Ref-0 just figures out what’s happening by watching those strings as they roll by. Hope that makes sense…. —— If that’s all true, it should be “easy” to put dummy gps sentences into the Ref-0 interface port and a pps from something else. Once it sees stuff that it likes, it will start locking up to that pps. Cheap micro and just about any modern gps = fancy new GPSDO. Quick / easy / not much work. A little more complex if you decide to translate sawtooth data. That of course assumes these boxes do anything with sawtooth ... Bob On Nov 6, 2014, at 7:52 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob I view the master/slave situation the same way you do, but only commented because Lucent effectively sets things up the other way round so just wanted to be sure which way Paul was considering it. As regards, the faking, yes, a single 15 way plug containing just a link and a resistor is exactly what I use now. I realise the RS422
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess …) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it’s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a “node” gives a reply (which it should not if it’s “node only” ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That’s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it’s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box “took” what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it’s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. — When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it’s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. — All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it “sees” from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola gps module. The Ref-0 just figures out what’s happening by watching those strings as they roll by. Hope that makes sense…. —— If that’s all true, it should be “easy” to put dummy gps sentences into the Ref-0 interface port and a pps from something else. Once it sees stuff that it likes, it will start locking up to that pps. Cheap micro and just about any modern gps = fancy new GPSDO. Quick / easy / not much work. A little more complex if you decide to translate sawtooth data. That of course assumes these boxes do anything with sawtooth ... Bob On Nov 6, 2014, at 7:52 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob I view the master/slave
Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice
Boy is that the fact. Gotten me a time or 2. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:13 AM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Forgot to mention to be sure and check the front panel bulbs. Frequently they burn out and you get no indication when everything is OK. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. L. Trantham Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 8:19 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice Wayne, Forgot to mention this on my first post. On the front panel: 1. Set the MODE to 'CS OFF' 2. Set OSC FREQUENCY five turn pot to '250' (not COARSE). 3. Set MOD to 'ON'. 4. Set C FIELD to whatever the front door says it should be. 5. Set CIRCUIT CHECK to 'ION PUMP I'. Plug it in and wait. ION PUMP I will likely (should) go full scale. Only once it comes close to zero will you be able to advance further. You can, however, switch CIRCUIT CHECK to its various positions and see what the readings are. BATTERY will not indicate since you removed the battery and charger card. SUPPLY will indicate about 3/4 scale or a bit more to indicate that the 18.7 VDC is OK. ION PUMP I will likely be 'full scale' but, in my experience, the Datum tubes will pump down faster than the HP tubes. At least give it a couple of days. OSC OVEN will start full scale but will fall to about 3/4 scale as the 10811 heats up and comes to its operating temperature. If it does not come down in about 30 to 60 minutes, there is likely a problem with the 10811. CS OVEN will be at zero until you turn MODE clockwise past CS OFF. It will then go full scale and after 30 to 60 minutes will indicate similar to OSC OVEN, assuming everything is OK. 5 MHZ should be about 2/3 scale. MULT will not indicate until you flip the AUTO START - START switch to START and then let it go back, IIRC. BEAM I and 2nd HARMONIC will not indicate until you are past CS OFF on the MODE switch and the CS OVEN indication comes back down 'on scale'. CONTROL will indicate when you are in OPER on the MODE switch and have hit the LOGIC RESET button once everything is 'on scale', assuming your OSC FREQUENCY COARSE is 'in the ball park'. Once you have had the unit plugged in and the OSC OVEN indication has 'come down', you can check the 5 MHz against your GPSDO and then adjust the OSC FREQUENCY COARSE to bring it to 5.00 MHz. Once there, the PLL will likely be able to 'lock' and the CONTINOUS OPERATION light should turn green after moving MODE to OPER and hitting the LOGIC RESET button but only after all the other meter indications are correct. If the light turns green, it is time for the 'happy dance'. 1 MHz and 100 kHz will indicate after flipping the START switch. Hope this helps. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Holder Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:14 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice If you get the tube working, you should use a counter or Lissajous display with a GPS or rubidium standard to preset it to the correct resonance peak frequency for lockup. The tube will probably be pretty noisy at first. If it also has weak beam current, which is common, it will be very difficult to find the right peak without cheating. I have a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Clock. Is that going to be good enough to set the correct resonance peak frequency for lockup? BTW, thanks for the link to a source for a manual. I've ordered a copy for my serial number range. Wayne ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice
Forgot to mention to be sure and check the front panel bulbs. Frequently they burn out and you get no indication when everything is OK. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. L. Trantham Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 8:19 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] [Bulk] Re: New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice Wayne, Forgot to mention this on my first post. On the front panel: 1. Set the MODE to 'CS OFF' 2. Set OSC FREQUENCY five turn pot to '250' (not COARSE). 3. Set MOD to 'ON'. 4. Set C FIELD to whatever the front door says it should be. 5. Set CIRCUIT CHECK to 'ION PUMP I'. Plug it in and wait. ION PUMP I will likely (should) go full scale. Only once it comes close to zero will you be able to advance further. You can, however, switch CIRCUIT CHECK to its various positions and see what the readings are. BATTERY will not indicate since you removed the battery and charger card. SUPPLY will indicate about 3/4 scale or a bit more to indicate that the 18.7 VDC is OK. ION PUMP I will likely be 'full scale' but, in my experience, the Datum tubes will pump down faster than the HP tubes. At least give it a couple of days. OSC OVEN will start full scale but will fall to about 3/4 scale as the 10811 heats up and comes to its operating temperature. If it does not come down in about 30 to 60 minutes, there is likely a problem with the 10811. CS OVEN will be at zero until you turn MODE clockwise past CS OFF. It will then go full scale and after 30 to 60 minutes will indicate similar to OSC OVEN, assuming everything is OK. 5 MHZ should be about 2/3 scale. MULT will not indicate until you flip the AUTO START - START switch to START and then let it go back, IIRC. BEAM I and 2nd HARMONIC will not indicate until you are past CS OFF on the MODE switch and the CS OVEN indication comes back down 'on scale'. CONTROL will indicate when you are in OPER on the MODE switch and have hit the LOGIC RESET button once everything is 'on scale', assuming your OSC FREQUENCY COARSE is 'in the ball park'. Once you have had the unit plugged in and the OSC OVEN indication has 'come down', you can check the 5 MHz against your GPSDO and then adjust the OSC FREQUENCY COARSE to bring it to 5.00 MHz. Once there, the PLL will likely be able to 'lock' and the CONTINOUS OPERATION light should turn green after moving MODE to OPER and hitting the LOGIC RESET button but only after all the other meter indications are correct. If the light turns green, it is time for the 'happy dance'. 1 MHz and 100 kHz will indicate after flipping the START switch. Hope this helps. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Holder Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:14 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [Bulk] Re: [time-nuts] New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice If you get the tube working, you should use a counter or Lissajous display with a GPS or rubidium standard to preset it to the correct resonance peak frequency for lockup. The tube will probably be pretty noisy at first. If it also has weak beam current, which is common, it will be very difficult to find the right peak without cheating. I have a Trimble Thunderbolt GPS Disciplined Clock. Is that going to be good enough to set the correct resonance peak frequency for lockup? BTW, thanks for the link to a source for a manual. I've ordered a copy for my serial number range. Wayne ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
if you want to go the easy way to talk to REF-1 of REF-0 via the J8-Diagnostic port try Ulrich Bangerts Z38XX software. Here: http://www.romahn.info/lucent/z3811.exe you will find for download a patched and renamed version that directly recognizes our nice new toys. After setting the right Parameters try View or Manual Command Entry. cheers Götz Am 07.11.2014 13:07, : Hi When Satstat does the change, I’m sure it uses the correct command to do it. The syntax is a phrase followed by a numeric. You then use the same phrase followed by a question mark to see if it took it. The slave happy accepts the command, stores the data, and returns it when asked. A reasonable external program would indeed say “yup it did it”. With no serial com (that’s a guess not a proven) there is no way to change the GPS. The slave simply stores the data. The only alternative would be for it to reject virtually all commands over the Diag port. Much easier to just put a note in the manual than to disable all that code. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 12:02 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a “node” gives a reply (which it should not if it’s “node only”). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That’s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it’s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box “took” what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it’s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. — When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it’s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. — All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it “sees” from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola gps module. The Ref-0 just figures out what’s happening by watching those strings as they roll by. Hope that makes sense…. —— If that’s all true, it should be “easy” to put dummy gps sentences into the Ref-0 interface port and a pps from something else. Once it sees stuff that it likes, it will start locking up to that pps. Cheap micro and just about any modern gps = fancy new GPSDO. Quick / easy / not much work. A little more complex if you decide to translate sawtooth data. That of course assumes these boxes do anything with sawtooth ... Bob On Nov 6, 2014, at 7:52 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob I view the master/slave situation the same way you do, but only
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it ??s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box ??took ?? what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it ??s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it ??s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it ??sees ?? from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola
Re: [time-nuts] New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice
http://www.artekmanuals.com has a nice scan of the manual if you can't find a clean copy online. You will need to become familiar with the manual sooner or later. So, I ordered the manual from Artek and got a download link, but could never get the manual to download. The download instructions said I could not use Safari, or Chrome, so that left me with Firefox, as I'm a Mac user. But, no matter what I tried, the download kept asking me for a user and password to save the file. I could read it, but not save it. So, I emailed to complain and got back this bit of snark: *FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS the left click /right click stuff is important, large secure files ( this one is 60+MB) behave differently than small PDF's this is because of the way Adobe and the browser share page memory* *Also make sure you are using Adobe reader AFTER the download not during. the idea is DOWNLOAD and SAVE the view, If you are viewing during the downloaded you are not really downloading ..a common error* *Over 200 people have downloaded files in the last 30 days without incident* *If this doesn't make sense to you in the MAC world we are happy to refund your money and you can reorder a CD in the mail* So, tried again several times, following his instructions exactly but, no result. I documented the steps I followed and emailed back (rather snarkily, too) that his instructions didn't work. I also called up a friend with a PC and asked him to comer over and help me out. But, by the time the arrived, the seller, Artek, without any further response, cancelled my order, refunded my money and deactivated the download link. So, taking him at his word, I ordered a copy on CD from eBay (from the same seller.) But, a few minutes later, I got a response back from eBay saying that my order had been cancelled by the seller. Hmm... So, can anyone point me to another source for this manual. My serial number begins with 2248A, so I need the manual that goes with this serial range. Wayne ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Anthony, What are you feeding your units with for power? I'm using a couple of 20V PC type bricks on mine. Have you tried just a plain old terminal program running 9600,8N1 on the right comm port? Did you click CommPort-Port Open in the SatStat program? Did yo make sure the SatStat program was setup for 9600 8N1? Sorry for the obvious questions, but I'm not looking over your shoulder. I don't know if you noticed my posts, but my master unit wouldn't talk to me except for a few minutes after it was turned on. Then it would cycle: first saying connected and then showing lots of errors. I got a new unit from John at AECI, and now my comms is working fine on it. If your units are new from them, you might want to talk to him about exchanging your units. Bob From: Anthony Roby ar...@antamy.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it ??s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box ??took ?? what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Anthony, Are you sure you've got the COM port set up correctly? Should be 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, No parity, No flow control In SatStat, for example, you should get a message on startup that says To Start: Select port Open on the CommPort Menu... If you do this, assuming the correct settings, it should bring up a message Communication Established, Please Wait Then the SatStat Info page should open. This is with the Symmetricom Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do you see any of this when you try to start it? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it ??s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box ??took ?? what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it ??s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change
Re: [time-nuts] New Guy, has HP 5061A with DATUM 7105A tube seeks advice
Not sure of the issue I have downloaded from Artek many times and can't say enough positive things about them. Reach out directly to them they are very helpful. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Wayne Holder wayne.hol...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.artekmanuals.com has a nice scan of the manual if you can't find a clean copy online. You will need to become familiar with the manual sooner or later. So, I ordered the manual from Artek and got a download link, but could never get the manual to download. The download instructions said I could not use Safari, or Chrome, so that left me with Firefox, as I'm a Mac user. But, no matter what I tried, the download kept asking me for a user and password to save the file. I could read it, but not save it. So, I emailed to complain and got back this bit of snark: *FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS the left click /right click stuff is important, large secure files ( this one is 60+MB) behave differently than small PDF's this is because of the way Adobe and the browser share page memory* *Also make sure you are using Adobe reader AFTER the download not during. the idea is DOWNLOAD and SAVE the view, If you are viewing during the downloaded you are not really downloading ..a common error* *Over 200 people have downloaded files in the last 30 days without incident* *If this doesn't make sense to you in the MAC world we are happy to refund your money and you can reorder a CD in the mail* So, tried again several times, following his instructions exactly but, no result. I documented the steps I followed and emailed back (rather snarkily, too) that his instructions didn't work. I also called up a friend with a PC and asked him to comer over and help me out. But, by the time the arrived, the seller, Artek, without any further response, cancelled my order, refunded my money and deactivated the download link. So, taking him at his word, I ordered a copy on CD from eBay (from the same seller.) But, a few minutes later, I got a response back from eBay saying that my order had been cancelled by the seller. Hmm... So, can anyone point me to another source for this manual. My serial number begins with 2248A, so I need the manual that goes with this serial range. Wayne ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Bill, I think I got my copy here. I used the bottom one. I don't know what a 58503 is. it was hard to find, for some reason. I'm using XP on an old laptop. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/SatStat Bob From: Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.net To: 'Bob Stewart' b...@evoria.net; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lucent KS 24361 and Z 3816a Performance
I wanted to share an observation about my Z3816a which may be relevant to KS 24361 users. Both units use the same oscillator and GPS receiver. When I first powered up my Z3816a, I noticed there were very infrequent Time Interval offset spikes of 100 ns or more. Once every 4 days to start, then once a week, then longer. Researching the time-nuts posting, I found others who had seen this and had offered different explanations, including bad GPS receiver, damage to connections during transit, receiver overload, mistreatment by the surplus vendor. In my case, it was neither of these. Simply allowing the unit to run for a month remove all the spikes. In my Z3816a now shows a predicted uncertainty in the 100-200ns/24 hour range. No spikes. So, if you see similar spikes on your KS 24361, you might want to resist the urge to power it off and 'try stuff' until next month. The oscillators in these units may not have been used on 12 years, and it maybe they need time (and a little controlled heat) to get comfortable in their new environment. This is offered in the hope it may save some unnecessary head-scratching, and not as a refutation of alternative theories. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Yes, all of that is the same as my setup and what I see. As I said, I can send data to the boxes from a terminal program and see it coming back by scoping the line. I may return the units and get a different pair. It just seems odd that both units behave in this way. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:39 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Anthony, Are you sure you've got the COM port set up correctly? Should be 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, No parity, No flow control In SatStat, for example, you should get a message on startup that says To Start: Select port Open on the CommPort Menu... If you do this, assuming the correct settings, it should bring up a message Communication Established, Please Wait Then the SatStat Info page should open. This is with the Symmetricom Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do you see any of this when you try to start it? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it ??s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
When you say, all of that is what you see... Do you mean you go through the SatStat start sequence and you see the SatStat info page? If so what happens then, or does it in fact stop earlier than that? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 19:55:16 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: Yes, all of that is the same as my setup and what I see. As I said, I can send data to the boxes from a terminal program and see it coming back by scoping the line. I may return the units and get a different pair. It just seems odd that both units behave in this way. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:39 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Anthony, Are you sure you've got the COM port set up correctly? Should be 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, No parity, No flow control In SatStat, for example, you should get a message on startup that says To Start: Select port Open on the CommPort Menu... If you do this, assuming the correct settings, it should bring up a message Communication Established, Please Wait Then the SatStat Info page should open. This is with the Symmetricom Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do you see any of this when you try to start it? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
It seems that this program will not work for Win 7. Has anyone attempted to decompile this thing? Maybe re-work a bit and have it run on anything? -George, N2FGX On 11/07/2014 01:34 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: Hi Bill, I think I got my copy here. I used the bottom one. I don't know what a 58503 is. it was hard to find, for some reason. I'm using XP on an old laptop. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/SatStat Bob From: Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.net To: 'Bob Stewart' b...@evoria.net; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? BobFrom: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Which one are you using? The bottom one referred to on Didier's site is the old Windows 3 version, perhaps even DOS, going back to 1993 or thereabouts. The later version is the one marked Satstat50, actually SatStat 5.0 and a Symmetricom release from 2001. I can't try it on Win7 right now but did think I'd had it running previously. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 20:42:26 GMT Standard Time, x...@darksmile.net writes: It seems that this program will not work for Win 7. Has anyone attempted to decompile this thing? Maybe re-work a bit and have it run on anything? -George, N2FGX On 11/07/2014 01:34 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: Hi Bill, I think I got my copy here. I used the bottom one. I don't know what a 58503 is. it was hard to find, for some reason. I'm using XP on an old laptop. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/SatStat Bob From: Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.net To: 'Bob Stewart' b...@evoria.net; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? BobFrom: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A manual
Wayne wrote: So, I ordered the manual from Artek [tale of woe] So, can anyone point me to another source for this manual. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/download.php?file=HP_Agilent/HP_5061A_Cesium_Beam_Frequency_Standard/hp_5061a_ops_svc_1978_05061_9052.pdf If you search on the KO4BB manuals site for 5061 you will find some other docs, including a datasheet for the Datum replacement tube and the 2006 Symmetricom replacement tube notice. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Divide by five
I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Ring counter, made out of Potato Semiconductor PO74G74A's? Except those don't come in DIP as far as I know. But consider that the spacing on a SOIC is just the same as spacing on a TO-92. I know that ECL dividers/prescalers e.g. 11C90 used to come in DIP but I only see SMD ECL now. e.g. MC10EP139. Tim N3QE On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
I have both versions of SatStat (the HP and the Symmetricon). Both are set for COM1 9660, 8, n, 1. Both are running in an XP VM. I have tested the virtualized to physical COM1 connection using a terminal program and a scope, so I know that works. When I select Port Open, I just get Trying to establish communication. I never see the SatStat info page. If I use the terminal program under XP or on the Win7 host, I can send *IDN? , :SYST:STAT? etc. but never get a response. Although I can see a response by scoping the cable - it peaks around 4.5v, and is quite noisy. My suspicion is that it's the noise that is causing the trouble. AECI are sending me replacement units, but if you have any ideas of other things to try, let me know Thanks ANthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 2:11 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions When you say, all of that is what you see... Do you mean you go through the SatStat start sequence and you see the SatStat info page? If so what happens then, or does it in fact stop earlier than that? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 19:55:16 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: Yes, all of that is the same as my setup and what I see. As I said, I can send data to the boxes from a terminal program and see it coming back by scoping the line. I may return the units and get a different pair. It just seems odd that both units behave in this way. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:39 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Anthony, Are you sure you've got the COM port set up correctly? Should be 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, No parity, No flow control In SatStat, for example, you should get a message on startup that says To Start: Select port Open on the CommPort Menu... If you do this, assuming the correct settings, it should bring up a message Communication Established, Please Wait Then the SatStat Info page should open. This is with the Symmetricom Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do you see any of this when you try to start it? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Anthony, I was getting that error, then communication established, then some rapid fire procession of error messages that I didn't write down, then back to trying to establish communication. It's probably something simple like a bad cap, but it was still under warranty, so not my problem. Bob From: Anthony Roby ar...@antamy.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions I have both versions of SatStat (the HP and the Symmetricon). Both are set for COM1 9660, 8, n, 1. Both are running in an XP VM. I have tested the virtualized to physical COM1 connection using a terminal program and a scope, so I know that works. When I select Port Open, I just get Trying to establish communication. I never see the SatStat info page. If I use the terminal program under XP or on the Win7 host, I can send *IDN? , :SYST:STAT? etc. but never get a response. Although I can see a response by scoping the cable - it peaks around 4.5v, and is quite noisy. My suspicion is that it's the noise that is causing the trouble. AECI are sending me replacement units, but if you have any ideas of other things to try, let me know Thanks ANthony ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Longevity of Rb standards
Hi I've a LRPO-101, which is going to give a greater remaining life, leaving on for a 12 hr period, or switching on /off as required . ie is the ageing greater when warming up, or constant ? -- -- Best wishes /73 Richard Bown Email : rich...@g8jvm.com HTTP : http://www.g8jvm.com nil carborundum a illegitemis ## Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 23 cms 140W, 13 cms 100W 3cms 5W Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W QRV VHF 6mtrs 200W, 4 mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 400W, 70cms 200W OS: Linux Mint 17 x86_64 on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop ## ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Ah, OK, so you didn't see all I described after all as you didn't get to the Communication Established page, that's what I couldn't understand. Probably best just to wait then and see how the replacements behave, but if it was me I'd perhaps be rather cautious about blaming the kit that does seem to be sending and receiving signals and maybe looking to a more straightforward interface for now without the virtual machine involved. I'm not saying that is the problem, but I'm a great believer in eliminating any unknowns and keeping things as basic as possible, especially where hardware interfacing under later versions of Windows is concerned. Old pentium laptops are two a penny now, and having a Win98 or XP test bed with real serial ports can be very useful at times. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 21:46:40 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: I have both versions of SatStat (the HP and the Symmetricon). Both are set for COM1 9660, 8, n, 1. Both are running in an XP VM. I have tested the virtualized to physical COM1 connection using a terminal program and a scope, so I know that works. When I select Port Open, I just get Trying to establish communication. I never see the SatStat info page. If I use the terminal program under XP or on the Win7 host, I can send *IDN? , :SYST:STAT? etc. but never get a response. Although I can see a response by scoping the cable - it peaks around 4.5v, and is quite noisy. My suspicion is that it's the noise that is causing the trouble. AECI are sending me replacement units, but if you have any ideas of other things to try, let me know Thanks ANthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 2:11 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions When you say, all of that is what you see... Do you mean you go through the SatStat start sequence and you see the SatStat info page? If so what happens then, or does it in fact stop earlier than that? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 19:55:16 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: Yes, all of that is the same as my setup and what I see. As I said, I can send data to the boxes from a terminal program and see it coming back by scoping the line. I may return the units and get a different pair. It just seems odd that both units behave in this way. -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of GandalfG8--- via time-nuts Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:39 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Anthony, Are you sure you've got the COM port set up correctly? Should be 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, No parity, No flow control In SatStat, for example, you should get a message on startup that says To Start: Select port Open on the CommPort Menu... If you do this, assuming the correct settings, it should bring up a message Communication Established, Please Wait Then the SatStat Info page should open. This is with the Symmetricom Windows version of SatStat, version 5, do you see any of this when you try to start it? Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 17:14:54 GMT Standard Time, ar...@antamy.com writes: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Some SMDs are easy to solder by hand. Others such as ball grid array is impossible. An easy SMD prototype board can be made by sawing the edge connectors off some old RAM memory or PCI boards and gluing down a parallel row of them. Dead bug style works well with SMD also. We are going to have to get used to working with these. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Divide by five
You could use a SOIC to DIP adaptor board with a couple logic and FF elements in the Potato Chip Family. See: http://www.potatosemi.com/ Cheers, Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Ok, If you have a solid ground and a good scope: The data should go between 1.5 and 3.5V on each of the two outputs. The transitions are nice and fast. No noise, nice clean square waves. The input lines on the interface idle at 2.5V. The idle voltages on the pins can be checked with a simple DVM, no scope involved. Check them before you attach anything to the port. One output pin should be at 3.5 the other at 1.5V. Both inputs should be at 2.5V. Once you connect up your RS-422 converter, the outputs should still be close to 1.5 and 3.5V on the DVM. The inputs should also go to at least 3V and 2V. Ideally they would go to 3.5 and 1.5V. Exactly where they go depends on your RS-422 converter. So: What voltages do you see on the J-8 Diag port pins with nothing connected to them? What voltages do you see on the pins with the USB to RS-422 converter attached to the J-8 Diag port? If things get weird when you connect the USB to 422 converter, check the voltages on it’s pins when nothing is connected to them. They should follow the same pattern as the J-8 pins. Most likely gotcha’s: 1) RX is connected to RX and TX is connected to TX (should be RX to TX and TX to RX). 2) The USB to RS-422 is putting out something odd (like 1.3V centered levels). 3) The software up the line from the interface is not really working right To check the software: Connect the RS-422 converter in loopback (RX out wired back to TX in). Bring up a terminal program, type in anything, see if it echoes back. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 11:34 AM, Anthony Roby ar...@antamy.com wrote: My frustration with getting anything out of the Diag port onto a PC continues. I received an RS422 to USB cable and also an RS422 to RS232 convertor but neither of them has given me any success, on either box. I can see data coming out of the port on my scope, on top of a noisy 1.2V line, but cannot get a terminal program, SatStat or Z38XX to display anything. It's crazy. Anthony -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 6:42 AM To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Well, it took me a *long* time to get around to the command line on these boxes. For what ever reason (yes one could guess ? ) I stayed focused on finding a 3810/11/12 manual rather than dropping back to the 3801 manual. Now the question becomes that magic 10 pin header on the board. If it ??s jumpers (might not be) one of them could enable bi-directional communication. Thanks for checking this to see that it works on at least one other box. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:03 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Hi Bob Very many thanks for the prod re the Diagnostic port. Considering the other GPS kit I talk to using Hyperterminal and the like, often because there's no other option, I don't know why it's never occurred to me to do the same with the Z3801As and now these.. and any rude suggestions as to why will just be politely ignored:-) It's not that I don't have access to the command set, but I suspect that twelve years or so ago, totally green when it came to GPSDOs and with my first Z3801A to play with, I was just grateful to find SatStat, and eventually some nice commercial options, and never gave it a thought after that, silly me. Anyway, I've just switched my Z3811A comms over to Hyperterminal and tried the :SYST:STAT? command for starters. That's obviously what SatStat uses to generate it's front page, although it is continuously updated with SatStat, and we do have contact, and something else to play with:-) Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 00:07:56 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a ??node ?? gives a reply (which it should not if it ??s ??node only ?? ). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That ??s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS 24361 and Z 3816a Performance
Hi Pops are indeed another reason to keep a GPSDO powered on all the time. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 2:44 PM, ed briggs edbri...@outlook.com wrote: I wanted to share an observation about my Z3816a which may be relevant to KS 24361 users. Both units use the same oscillator and GPS receiver. When I first powered up my Z3816a, I noticed there were very infrequent Time Interval offset spikes of 100 ns or more. Once every 4 days to start, then once a week, then longer. Researching the time-nuts posting, I found others who had seen this and had offered different explanations, including bad GPS receiver, damage to connections during transit, receiver overload, mistreatment by the surplus vendor. In my case, it was neither of these. Simply allowing the unit to run for a month remove all the spikes. In my Z3816a now shows a predicted uncertainty in the 100-200ns/24 hour range. No spikes. So, if you see similar spikes on your KS 24361, you might want to resist the urge to power it off and 'try stuff' until next month. The oscillators in these units may not have been used on 12 years, and it maybe they need time (and a little controlled heat) to get comfortable in their new environment. This is offered in the hope it may save some unnecessary head-scratching, and not as a refutation of alternative theories. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi There was a post from Goetz Romahn about a new version of Z38XX that will work correctly with the 3810/11/12. The previous version worked fine under XP. It’s a far better program to use than SatStat. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:48 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Which one are you using? The bottom one referred to on Didier's site is the old Windows 3 version, perhaps even DOS, going back to 1993 or thereabouts. The later version is the one marked Satstat50, actually SatStat 5.0 and a Symmetricom release from 2001. I can't try it on Win7 right now but did think I'd had it running previously. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 20:42:26 GMT Standard Time, x...@darksmile.net writes: It seems that this program will not work for Win 7. Has anyone attempted to decompile this thing? Maybe re-work a bit and have it run on anything? -George, N2FGX On 11/07/2014 01:34 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: Hi Bill, I think I got my copy here. I used the bottom one. I don't know what a 58503 is. it was hard to find, for some reason. I'm using XP on an old laptop. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/SatStat Bob From: Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.net To: 'Bob Stewart' b...@evoria.net; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? BobFrom: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Hi: I have some info on working with SMD parts at: http://www.prc68.com/I/SMT.shtml The key thing is to get parts with a reasonable pitch, 0.1 is a standard DIP pitch. 0.050 (1.27 or 1.25 mm) is half DIP and is easy to do with a fine tip soldering iron and small dia. solder that I normally use for other stuff. The use of a stereo zoom microscope or a magnifying glass/light or 3.25 diopter reading glasses is a big help. On eBay there are many surface mount surfboard that allow you to mount a SMT and then treat it like a SIP so you can use prototyping boards. Another option is to make a ring counter out of transistors. http://www.prc68.com/I/comp.shtml#Lamp The beauty is that each transistor is toggling at 2/N of the clock frequency. Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Chris Albertson wrote: On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Some SMDs are easy to solder by hand. Others such as ball grid array is impossible. An easy SMD prototype board can be made by sawing the edge connectors off some old RAM memory or PCI boards and gluing down a parallel row of them. Dead bug style works well with SMD also. We are going to have to get used to working with these. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Can't argue with that, was just responding to some comments re SatStat:-), although I do find it quite handy sometimes as a quick confirmation all is ok. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 23:10:36 GMT Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi There was a post from Goetz Romahn about a new version of Z38XX that will work correctly with the 3810/11/12. The previous version worked fine under XP. It’s a far better program to use than SatStat. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:48 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Which one are you using? The bottom one referred to on Didier's site is the old Windows 3 version, perhaps even DOS, going back to 1993 or thereabouts. The later version is the one marked Satstat50, actually SatStat 5.0 and a Symmetricom release from 2001. I can't try it on Win7 right now but did think I'd had it running previously. Regards Nigel GM8PZR In a message dated 07/11/2014 20:42:26 GMT Standard Time, x...@darksmile.net writes: It seems that this program will not work for Win 7. Has anyone attempted to decompile this thing? Maybe re-work a bit and have it run on anything? -George, N2FGX On 11/07/2014 01:34 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: Hi Bill, I think I got my copy here. I used the bottom one. I don't know what a 58503 is. it was hard to find, for some reason. I'm using XP on an old laptop. http://www.ko4bb.com/manuals/index.php?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/SatStat Bob From: Bill Riches bill.ric...@verizon.net To: 'Bob Stewart' b...@evoria.net; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 7:04 AM Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob and group, Where are you obtaining Satstat and what windoze version will it work on? XP, W7 32 or 64 bit? XP I guess? Bill Riches Cape May -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Stewart Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 12:03 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? BobFrom: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Test
Test ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected to divide by 5 at 125 MHz see here http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/74AC161.pdf to be sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V... 73 Alex On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Hi The days of DIP parts are drawing to a close. Most of the DIP’s are now surplus and stocked by odd places here and here. The risk with many places (even major names) is that the part you get isn’t what you think it is. It may be a re-labeled something else pulled off a board in China with a blowtorch. I think that in a lot of ways, you are better off with something in one of the larger SMD packages than a surplus / questionable DIP. The other half of the equation at higher frequencies is good layout. That sort of forces you in the direction of a pc board. Custom boards are now so crazy cheap that doing them for a one off makes sense. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Longevity of Rb standards
Hi If we are talking about 12 hours on / 12 hours off each day - leave it on, That one is a slam dunk. The cycling will kill stuff faster than any aging on the bulb (or whatever). If you are are talking about running it once a month, then that’s a bit different. You will need to run if for more than 12 hours to get it fully stable. A lot depends on the characteristics of the unit you have. Three days or so is a pretty good run in number for an Rb. Nobody really knows how long these Telcom Rb’s will last. You see numbers ranging from 5 years to 25 years tossed around. Both sound a bit suspect to me. The surplus parts all have 5 years on them by now. Running anything as hot as an Rb does continuously for 25 years without failure seems a bit much as well. There’s sure to be a bunch of fine print on both of those numbers. Certainly there are examples of Rb’s that are 25 years old that are working fine. I personally have killed a number of Rb’s in under 5 years (by abuse …). Your mileage will vary …. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Richard Bown rich...@g8jvm.com wrote: Hi I've a LRPO-101, which is going to give a greater remaining life, leaving on for a 12 hr period, or switching on /off as required . ie is the ageing greater when warming up, or constant ? -- -- Best wishes /73 Richard Bown Email : rich...@g8jvm.com HTTP : http://www.g8jvm.com nil carborundum a illegitemis ## Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 23 cms 140W, 13 cms 100W 3cms 5W Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W QRV VHF 6mtrs 200W, 4 mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 400W, 70cms 200W OS: Linux Mint 17 x86_64 on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop ## ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
On the topic of SMD/SMT surfboards - has anyone seen one that has pad areas designed for crystals or oscillators?Most of the pads are for resistors, and that might be fine for a crystal in the strictest sense - just the crystal no resonator - but I have 4, 6, and 8 pad guys here that just aren't spaced right for that. If nobody has, will break out Eagle and make an attempt to create one. NS On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi: I have some info on working with SMD parts at: http://www.prc68.com/I/SMT.shtml The key thing is to get parts with a reasonable pitch, 0.1 is a standard DIP pitch. 0.050 (1.27 or 1.25 mm) is half DIP and is easy to do with a fine tip soldering iron and small dia. solder that I normally use for other stuff. The use of a stereo zoom microscope or a magnifying glass/light or 3.25 diopter reading glasses is a big help. On eBay there are many surface mount surfboard that allow you to mount a SMT and then treat it like a SIP so you can use prototyping boards. Another option is to make a ring counter out of transistors. http://www.prc68.com/I/comp.shtml#Lamp The beauty is that each transistor is toggling at 2/N of the clock frequency. Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Chris Albertson wrote: On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Some SMDs are easy to solder by hand. Others such as ball grid array is impossible. An easy SMD prototype board can be made by sawing the edge connectors off some old RAM memory or PCI boards and gluing down a parallel row of them. Dead bug style works well with SMD also. We are going to have to get used to working with these. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
As far as I'm concerned there are no more DIP parts. However, let's not give up yet. Although I am not a high volume manufacturer, I found a nice way around it. First, forget about prototyping by hand. That ship has left. So, I use OrCAD/Cadence (CIS/PCB Editor) from the start in order to create a proper project. This includes circuit and board. OrCAD is fantastic in that you can have revisions, simulation, etc, etc... Then I use http://pcb123.com/ to make myself a protoboard (or 4). Pretty cheap for that volume. ~$50 Then to mount the components, I use http://www.pnconline.com/ I can usually make 2-4 protoboards for ~$200-300 with all the components. Depends on count. OK, so not exactly old school but I have a very nice prototype. OrCad also does amazing simulations on diff pairs, and other cool things. Ultimately, by thinking of these things ahead of time and doing the design right I end up saving considerable time. On the prototypes, there is usually a few extra SMD pots but that's ok. Let's face it. DIPs are done. This is the way now and we might as well get used to it. Anyone here who needs help with OrCad, just ask. I am sure there are a few experts here as well. Thanks for listening, -George, N2FGX On 11/07/2014 07:37 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The days of DIP parts are drawing to a close. Most of the DIP’s are now surplus and stocked by odd places here and here. The risk with many places (even major names) is that the part you get isn’t what you think it is. It may be a re-labeled something else pulled off a board in China with a blowtorch. I think that in a lot of ways, you are better off with something in one of the larger SMD packages than a surplus / questionable DIP. The other half of the equation at higher frequencies is good layout. That sort of forces you in the direction of a pc board. Custom boards are now so crazy cheap that doing them for a one off makes sense. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
HI Just in case, here’s the codes I used via the terminal to play with the boxes: :SYST:STAT system status :PTIM:EMAN elevation mask :DIAG:ROSC:EFC efc percentage :PTIM:GPS:POS:HOLD:LAST last survey *IDN? unit identification string All follow the normal SCPI format of putting either a ? or a number at the end depending if you want to see what’s there or change it. The only one I tried to change was the elevation mask. All of the ones above worked fine with a ? on the end of the string. I did figure out my issue with the error code replies. Pure stupidity on my part. SCPI requires you to clear errors once they happen. I always forget to do that when I’m on a terminal connection. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 6:30 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Can't argue with that, was just responding to some comments re SatStat:-), although I do find it quite handy sometimes as a quick confirmation all is ok. Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
I do a lot of work with SMD parts and would be happy to solder up and SOIC-16 version of the 74AC161, such as this one: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv633=35k=74AC161mnonly=0newproducts=0ColumnSort=0page=1stock=1quantity=0ptm=0fid=0pageSize=25 onto a dip break out board, such as this one: https://www.adafruit.com/products/1207 Or, if you need something more complex, I do a lot of PCB design using OSH Park https://www.oshpark.com and I'd be happy to whip up a simple PCB for you. It takes a few weeks to turn around a board, but it's a very economical service ($5 a square inch for three copies.) Wayne On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi Thanks for posting that information. Keeping Ulrich’s code going is a very good thing. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Götz Romahn go...@g-romahn.de wrote: if you want to go the easy way to talk to REF-1 of REF-0 via the J8-Diagnostic port try Ulrich Bangerts Z38XX software. Here: http://www.romahn.info/lucent/z3811.exe you will find for download a patched and renamed version that directly recognizes our nice new toys. After setting the right Parameters try View or Manual Command Entry. cheers Götz Am 07.11.2014 13:07, : Hi When Satstat does the change, I’m sure it uses the correct command to do it. The syntax is a phrase followed by a numeric. You then use the same phrase followed by a question mark to see if it took it. The slave happy accepts the command, stores the data, and returns it when asked. A reasonable external program would indeed say “yup it did it”. With no serial com (that’s a guess not a proven) there is no way to change the GPS. The slave simply stores the data. The only alternative would be for it to reject virtually all commands over the Diag port. Much easier to just put a note in the manual than to disable all that code. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 12:02 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: Hi Bob, I've been using the Satstat program to send commands. What I don't understand is why the slave will accept commands such as sat elevation angle and not give an error response. It gives a response of command complete, but it doesn't change it. Or is that an indication that both units use the same firmware, and success is actually indicated by the resulting change of the angle? Bob From: Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org To: gandal...@aol.com; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions Hi Ok, I got to spend a little quality time with my pair today. I mostly poked at the Diag port with a terminal program. Both of the units seem talk over the Diag port regardless of the mode they are in (master / slave / fault ). Both respond to a sub-set of the Z3801 SCPI commands (= not all commands work). There are a few enhancements where a query to a “node” gives a reply (which it should not if it’s “node only”). All of it works ok at 9600 baud 8N1. All of it comes back with an error message (E-xxx) after a valid command response. It may not like the terminal program sending cr/lf or something like that. By far the most useful thing to type is :SYST:STAT? That executes the system:status request and gives you a nice full screen of information. It shows you about 95% of the useful information all on one page. About the only major thing missing is the DAC value. That’s available with another command out of the Z3801 list. It does take a while to compose and transmit the screen, so it’s not the best way to to this forever and ever. The data from the request is the same on both boxes. Same everything except one shows as standby etc. The interesting details are things like elevation mask and cable delay. Why interesting? You can set them with discrete commands. You can also query the data with the same commands to make sure the box “took” what you sent. This allows experimentation with changing the elevation mask on each box (or just simply doing a discrete query for the mask on each box). The Ref-0 / slave will happily change things around with discrete commands. None of them are reflected in the :SYST:STAT? listing on the Ref-0 or Ref-1. When you look at the Ref-1 / gps box, it’s discrete query information matches the :SYST:STAT? screen on both boxes. When you change things on the Ref-1 box both screens follow that data. — When you pull the antenna on the gps box, it immediately (almost) goes into gps fault led flashing mode. The slave box happily sits there for a while (say a minute) with it’s gps led saying all is well. When you plug the antenna back in, the process is reversed. The gps box goes out of flash mode right away. The led goes out in a bit. The led on the slave box does not follow for a minute or so. — All of this suggests to me that the Ref-0 / slave does not talk back to the other box via serial. It also suggests to me that all it “sees” from the Ref-1/gps box are the duplicates of the serial string out of the Motorola gps module. The Ref-0 just figures out what’s happening by watching those strings as they roll by. Hope that makes sense…. —— If that’s all true, it should be “easy” to put dummy gps sentences into the Ref-0 interface port and a pps from something else. Once it sees stuff that it likes, it will start locking up to that pps. Cheap micro and just about any modern gps = fancy new GPSDO. Quick / easy / not much work. A little more complex if you
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
I got in a hurry and made mistake #1 listed by Bob a few replies back. I hooked one up to the RS422/1PPI port transmit pins (same as on J8) and was receiving data fine in the PC so I just hooked up the other pair of terminals to the receive pins for J8 and couldn't get any response to commands. I finally found that I had initially connected the Lucent box ouput pins to the wrong terminals on the converter. The Time code data on J6 was still getting into the PC even though it was connected wrong. So I just wired the Lucent box input pins to the other pins on the converter that are really inputs and couldn't get J8 sto work either. What I ended up with to make it work is: J8-9 to RX-, J8-5 to RX+, J8-8 to TX- and T8-4 to TX+. Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 GPSDO arrived today several questions
Hi The reason it was listed as #1 on the list is that I made the backwards numbering mistake when I was trying to work out the resistances on the interface connector. I’ve been doing this for 40 years and I still mess it up on a regular basis. We also seem to get it wrong from time to time when we lay out connector connections on pc boards, but that’s another story altogether ….. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 9:09 PM, Alan Hochhalter alanh...@gmail.com wrote: I got in a hurry and made mistake #1 listed by Bob a few replies back. I hooked one up to the RS422/1PPI port transmit pins (same as on J8) and was receiving data fine in the PC so I just hooked up the other pair of terminals to the receive pins for J8 and couldn't get any response to commands. I finally found that I had initially connected the Lucent box ouput pins to the wrong terminals on the converter. The Time code data on J6 was still getting into the PC even though it was connected wrong. So I just wired the Lucent box input pins to the other pins on the converter that are really inputs and couldn't get J8 sto work either. What I ended up with to make it work is: J8-9 to RX-, J8-5 to RX+, J8-8 to TX- and T8-4 to TX+. Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Prototype boards. Was: Re: Divide by five
Hi all, I completely agree here. Dip parts are so 'old school'! :) You do get a much better board layout with SMT components. I do understand it can be difficult for some to solder these new SMD components. However with good magnification, a little liquid or paste flux, and some tweezers, a lot of you may be surprised how quickly you'll pick it up. As for the cost of the prototype boards, there is a board sharing site worth looking into. For any of us wanting to 'try something', OSHpark.com is a community circuit board order site. They have great prices, if you don't mind purple boards! Silk screen, solder mask, through hole vias, and any shape, 2 or 4 layer boards, with gold plating. They work well with Eagle, if you have it. (FYI, I have no affiliation to them, just used them a few times in the last few weeks...). The really nice thing is if you make a board and others want it you can 'share' the board. Then anyone can order it for themselves. For example, I did a layout of an SMT version of Warren S's HP10811 outer oven controller (Thanks again Warren!), with some extra stuff added and received three boards shipped, for a total cost of $10 (Not per board, for the whole order and shipping!). Other boards I have ordered were $1.30 and $2.80 (Synergy GPS connector boards, etc.) for sets of three shipped. (Yeah, postage should be more than 1.30!) Don't completely knock surface mount until you try it. SOIC size packs, and 0805 and 1206 passive components can be pretty easy to work with! Eventually you'll start to think .5mm spaced leads, 0603 and 0402 passives are too big! :) Dan The days of DIP parts are drawing to a close. Most of the DIP’s are now surplus and stocked by odd places here and here. The risk with many places (even major names) is that the part you get isn’t what you think it is. It may be a re-labeled something else pulled off a board in China with a blowtorch. I think that in a lot of ways, you are better off with something in one of the larger SMD packages than a surplus / questionable DIP. The other half of the equation at higher frequencies is good layout. That sort of forces you in the direction of a pc board. Custom boards are now so crazy cheap that doing them for a one off makes sense. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Hi If it’s a synthesizer and you can play with divide’s a bit - there are a number of divide by 10 preschoolers out there. They are not in DIP’s, but the packages are not that crazy. They also are rated to much higher frequencies. You would not have any issues with “almost works” at 125 MHz. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Prototype boards. Was: Re: Divide by five
Hi Tools are one thing that makes it happen. Practice is another thing that we often forget about being in the mix. Start slow and simple. Work your way up. Plan on setting up a bit better bench than you have now. Don’t try to work of 20 hours straight on that first board. 1206 R’s and C’s work ok on your first board. A dozen parts is plenty to do something useful without you going insane putting it together. Bob On Nov 7, 2014, at 9:27 PM, d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: Hi all, I completely agree here. Dip parts are so 'old school'! :) You do get a much better board layout with SMT components. I do understand it can be difficult for some to solder these new SMD components. However with good magnification, a little liquid or paste flux, and some tweezers, a lot of you may be surprised how quickly you'll pick it up. As for the cost of the prototype boards, there is a board sharing site worth looking into. For any of us wanting to 'try something', OSHpark.com is a community circuit board order site. They have great prices, if you don't mind purple boards! Silk screen, solder mask, through hole vias, and any shape, 2 or 4 layer boards, with gold plating. They work well with Eagle, if you have it. (FYI, I have no affiliation to them, just used them a few times in the last few weeks...). The really nice thing is if you make a board and others want it you can 'share' the board. Then anyone can order it for themselves. For example, I did a layout of an SMT version of Warren S's HP10811 outer oven controller (Thanks again Warren!), with some extra stuff added and received three boards shipped, for a total cost of $10 (Not per board, for the whole order and shipping!). Other boards I have ordered were $1.30 and $2.80 (Synergy GPS connector boards, etc.) for sets of three shipped. (Yeah, postage should be more than 1.30!) Don't completely knock surface mount until you try it. SOIC size packs, and 0805 and 1206 passive components can be pretty easy to work with! Eventually you'll start to think .5mm spaced leads, 0603 and 0402 passives are too big! :) Dan The days of DIP parts are drawing to a close. Most of the DIP’s are now surplus and stocked by odd places here and here. The risk with many places (even major names) is that the part you get isn’t what you think it is. It may be a re-labeled something else pulled off a board in China with a blowtorch. I think that in a lot of ways, you are better off with something in one of the larger SMD packages than a surplus / questionable DIP. The other half of the equation at higher frequencies is good layout. That sort of forces you in the direction of a pc board. Custom boards are now so crazy cheap that doing them for a one off makes sense. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Looks like I can get the 74AC161 in DIP from Mouser. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I still like DIP for prototyping on breadboards. Joe Gray W5JG On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alex Pummer a...@pcscons.com wrote: check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected to divide by 5 at 125 MHz see here http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/ 74AC161.pdf to be sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V... 73 Alex On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
That part is limited to 95MHz over temp. Not suitable for commercial designs, but probably works just fine for a one-off.. Sent From iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 19:37, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Looks like I can get the 74AC161 in DIP from Mouser. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I still like DIP for prototyping on breadboards. Joe Gray W5JG On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alex Pummer a...@pcscons.com wrote: check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected to divide by 5 at 125 MHz see here http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/ 74AC161.pdf to be sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V... 73 Alex On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
Joe, This puppy can go to 166MHz over temp and has standard 100 mil pin spacing if you put it into a socket: ATF16V8C I have not used PALs since 1992 but I used to be extremely fond of the 16R8 and 22V10 types back then. This is a 16V8 that will do your divider in no time: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATF16V8C-5JX/ATF16V8C-5JX-ND/1027054 Best of all its available and only ~$3.. Said Sent From iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 19:37, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Looks like I can get the 74AC161 in DIP from Mouser. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I still like DIP for prototyping on breadboards. Joe Gray W5JG On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alex Pummer a...@pcscons.com wrote: check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected to divide by 5 at 125 MHz see here http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/ 74AC161.pdf to be sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V... 73 Alex On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Prototype boards. Was: Re: Divide by five
Sparkfun in the United States also sells off large bags of their discards for this very purpose - generally sorted by the type of work you wish to practice. http://www.sparkfun.com/. This is where I went wrong. I got a lot of great stuff and jumped right in on it. Fortunately we're not talking an AD9458 here but I did torch some things that were inconvenient. On a similar tack, I did just order a couple of reflow controllers for your average toaster oven to test. Will share the results here if desired. NS On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Tools are one thing that makes it happen. Practice is another thing that we often forget about being in the mix. Start slow and simple. The best and certainly lowest cost practice can be on old, dead consumer electronics. Got a dead pc mother board? Practice removing a ew parts and re-soldering them. They are easy to remove using a heat gun, the hot air will melt the solder and then you have hundreds of zero cost practice parts. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Divide by five
I'm surprised no one has suggested 74F161 or other F series. Power hungry, but rated to in excess of 100mhz, some vendors as high as 120mhz, at ordinary temps. I will have to look, but I might have a tube or two of them in the basement. I know I have most of the other 74F. On Nov 7, 2014, at 23:20, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Joe, This puppy can go to 166MHz over temp and has standard 100 mil pin spacing if you put it into a socket: ATF16V8C I have not used PALs since 1992 but I used to be extremely fond of the 16R8 and 22V10 types back then. This is a 16V8 that will do your divider in no time: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATF16V8C-5JX/ATF16V8C-5JX-ND/1027054 Best of all its available and only ~$3.. Said Sent From iPhone On Nov 7, 2014, at 19:37, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: Looks like I can get the 74AC161 in DIP from Mouser. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I still like DIP for prototyping on breadboards. Joe Gray W5JG On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Alex Pummer a...@pcscons.com wrote: check if you could get a 74AC161, which could be connected to divide by 5 at 125 MHz see here http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcleod/pdfs/IADE/references/ 74AC161.pdf to be sure to work at 125MHz run with 5,5 to 6V... 73 Alex On 11/7/2014 1:12 PM, Joseph Gray wrote: I need to divide a 125 Mhz clock by five. I have looked on Mouser and every chip I find is either obsolete or in SMT. Can anyone recommend a chip that is fast enough and comes in DIP? Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
