Re: [time-nuts] NTP Clock suggestions?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

One station I worked for in the 60s had a Western Union clock that was 
synchronized hourly.

If you watched it you could see the hands twitch at the top of the hour.

On 05/28/2013 05:04 PM, Al Wolfe wrote:
I actually built a contraption like this back in the 1970's. As 
chief engineer at a couple of automated radio stations, I was tasked 
with keeping the network-joiner clocks accurate. It sounded really 
sloppy to have dead air or to up-cut the network. These clocks were 60 
htz synchronous motors that ran cam switches. Real PITA to adjust. 
Unfortunately, the utility power drifted up and down frequency wise, a 
few seconds a week. Long term was pretty good, though.


   I built a 10 mhz crystal oscillator and divided it down to 50 htz. 
with a string of 7490 decade dividers. Then built a 600 htz VCO out of 
a pair of 7400 NAND gates biased linearly. Divided the 600 by 12 with 
a 7492 and PLLed the 50 htz results with the precision 50 htz to 
control the 600 htz. Then divided the 600 by 10 in another 7490 to get 
60 htz. Low passed this 60 htz square wave so it kind of looked like a 
sine wave and drove a small PA amplifier (pair of 6L6's I think.) This 
drove a 6.3 V filament transformer backwards to supply the 120 VAC to 
power the synchronous clock motors as well as some wall clocks.


   A kluge but it worked great. Every one was happy, the owner, the 
GM, the PD, and me because they got off my back about sloppy timing 
with the net joiner. About once a month or so I would fire up the old 
SP600 in the rack and check zero beat  of the 10 mhz timebase against 
WWV with Lissijous figures on an oscilloscope. (Used the VFO of the 
SP600 do drive a cathode follower into a mixer so the the scope was 
looking at the low IF frequency. Zero beat was very obvious and the 
stability of the receive was not an issue.)


   This thing ran fine for at least ten years. The stations changed 
formats so they didn't need it any more. Probably wound up in a dumpster.


Al,  retired  (A.K.A. K9SI)




albertson.ch...@gmail.com said:
OK, the LOWEST cost option I can think of for driving an analog 
clock with

millisecond accuracy.   Buy a normal AC powered clock that uses a
synchronous AC motor that runs off the 60Hz AC power, not a battery 
powered
clock.  Then have your NTP disciplined computer generate a 60Hz 
audio sine

wave.  Amplify the sine wave to 12 volts then use a small 12:120 volt
transformer to step up to 120VAC.  ...


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 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
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10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A control programs

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I added a command to display or change the frequency offset to my ZCOMM 
program.


To use it:

port 1
fe [new offset]

On 05/24/2013 05:06 AM, Ziggy9 wrote:

A few months ago Fabio Eboli posted some Python functions that might be useful. 
I haven't used or tested them myself, but they might be of interest. Still up 
on pastebin at

http://pastebin.com/download.php?i=VpZVuw0t

I don't know if Fabio has done any further work on this but perhaps he'll chime 
in here.

Paul

On May 24, 2013, at 0:22, Chris Albertson  wrote:


You have been collecting programs?  I did not know there were any to
collect.  Do you have a list?   I don't have much use for a .exe file but
is your are source codes available that would be great.


On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 4:44 PM, EB4APL  wrote:


Hello,

Since I bought my FE-5680A (10 MHz, 1 PPS variety), I have been collecting
control programs for it and keeping then in reserve.  Now that I'm going to
box it with a distribution amp I tried some of them, first of all to adjust
the frequency against the GPS.  I used Bob Campbel's VK4XV
"Fe5680Calibrator.exe" with good results.  I have other programs which
interrogates the device and shows the hex dumps, but I would like to know
if there is a windows program that allows to send other that the offset
related commands to the device and get the responses not in hex but
translated to plain language. In fact I don't know if there are
housekeeping commands for reading thinks like the lock status or the lamp
voltage like the analog outputs of the  FRS-C and others.

Thanks in advance,
Ignacio EB4APL
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Redondo Beach, California
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[time-nuts] gpsd 1pps pulse?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I would like to set up a NTP server on a machine running Linux
(currently Korora 18).

What are the requirements for the 1 PPS signal fed to the carrier detect 
pin?

I presume the 10 us 1pps from the Thunderbolt is too narrow.
I assume the rising edge of CD is the one gpsd triggers on.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS position survey

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

When doing a position survey, does Lady Heather have to be running?
Or does the Thunderbolt do it by itself?

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] OT - but of interest?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 04/26/2013 06:01 AM, Bob Smither wrote:

As many on this list are amateur radio operators the following might be of 
interest:

   http://www.phonesat.org/

The project asks amateurs to monitor transmissions from cell phones that have
been placed in orbit.

>From the homepage:

"PhoneSat satellites are emitting packets on the amateur radio spectrum to
report different types of message. The details of these packets can be found on
the packets page. If you are an amateur radio operator and you can receive these
packets, you have the great opportunity to contribute to the project by
submitting them. The dashboard page will give you all the information you need
to track the satellites in real time."

Will radiation fry the cell phones before thy burn up on re-entry?
They are expected to re-enter within weeks so there is a good
chance they will not see a radiation event before they burn up.

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] T-Bolt Mon and Windows 7

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 04/21/2013 08:28 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

LH will run even under Linux or Macs just fine if you run a Win XP image
inside VMware. I'm pretty sure VMware runs on Win 7 or Win 8.So you can
always continue to use the Old Win XP even on newer and newer computers.
  These is a fre version of VMware or you can try Oracle's Virtual Box.

Another advantage of VMware is that it makes it very easy to export the Win
XP console display to any computer with a web browser

A platform neutral version of LH would be nice but who has the time for
that, especially when you can virtualize Win XP.



Lady Heather runs fine under Linux "Wine".  The backslashes in
the desktop command line need to be removed.  The advantage
of Wine is that no copy of Windows is required.

The first thing I do to test a new build of Wine is to install LH.

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz clock distribution for the lab

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 04/18/2013 09:55 AM, Russ Ramirez wrote:

At what point does one require a distribution amp? My TBolt currently
provides a reference clock for 2 instruments, and I know of no issues.
Since the unit came with the 1:2 Mini-Circuits splitter, I expected this to
be the case. If I switched to a
ZFSC-4-11:4 splitter
say, to add a reference to a 3rd instrument, at what point
does this become an issue if the insertion loss is only -6dB on any port?
HP provides both the input impedance and the capacitive load for a 5334
counter, which is nice, but this does not seem to be a standard or norm per
se in the T&M industry.

OTOH, I don't want to over think this though :-)

Russ
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I have a FlexRadio 1500, Racal 1992 counter, HP 3586,
Advantest U3641, and Gigatronics 6061A daisy-chained
off my Thunderbolt.  Don't throw out those BNC T connectors.

The Gigatronics terminates the 10 MHz so a splitter or
something may be required if I add another instrument
that terminated the 10 MHz input.

You need to use lab grade cables if you don't wish to
interfere with WWV on 10 MHz.,

--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Remote GPS Oscillator Steering

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 04/18/2013 09:23 AM, Hal Murray wrote:

i...@g7iii.net said:

Oh I know it can handle it, I was trying to avoid a nice 10MHz signal on an
unshielded conductor smack on the Amateur Radio 30m band :) It's more RF
here than Time/Frequency, and if I can avoid clashes, so much the better...

Has anybody measured the radiation from various types of coax and/or twisted
pairs?

It would be interesting to see how they compare and/or how they compare to
things like unterminated unused outputs or emissions from gear with the lid
off and things like that.




In my experience, unshielded twisted pair ethernet cables are
quite noisy.  The inexpensive coax used for ethernet leaks
enough that the 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt wiped out WWV
on 10 MHz.

I replaced the cheap coax with instrumentation grade cables
and WWV reception is much better.

I replaced all the ethernet cables with shielded cables and the
RFI and EMC problems pretty much disappeared.

--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586 Problem

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 03/24/2013 09:12 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

On 03/24/2013 06:24 PM, Perry Sandeen wrote:

Esteemed Gurus,

I was checking out two operational HP 3586B’s which I normally use 
for RF work on the lower frequencies and found out one would not sync 
below 300 KHz or so and the other below 200 KHz on the Fo rear output 
connector.


So I contacted my friend Mike Fisch and asked him to do the same test 
and his Fo output would not sync below 1 MHz.


So my questions to the list are: 1.  Do other owners of HP 3586 units 
have the same problem?   2. And if one had had that problem, were 
they able to fix it, and if so how?


I don’t want to touch the insides of mine until I have more information.

Regards,

Perrier

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The output on my 3586B loses lock below 400-500 kHz.
This is the first time I checked the output at these low frequencies.

The last time I made measurements with it it was not showing problems
with measurements down to 20 kHz or so.

I just checked and my 3586B is receiving normally down to the lowest 
frequency I checked, 19.8 KHz.


--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586 Problem

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 03/24/2013 06:24 PM, Perry Sandeen wrote:

Esteemed Gurus,

I was checking out two operational HP 3586B’s which I normally use for RF work 
on the lower frequencies and found out one would not sync below 300 KHz or so 
and the other below 200 KHz on the Fo rear output connector.

So I contacted my friend Mike Fisch and asked him to do the same test and his 
Fo output would not sync below 1 MHz.

So my questions to the list are: 1.  Do other owners of HP 3586 units have the 
same problem?   2. And if one had had that problem, were they able to fix it, 
and if so how?

I don’t want to touch the insides of mine until I have more information.

Regards,

Perrier

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The output on my 3586B loses lock below 400-500 kHz.
This is the first time I checked the output at these low frequencies.

The last time I made measurements with it it was not showing problems
with measurements down to 20 kHz or so.

--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I bought one of the 40 db gain GPS antennas that were on Ebay
some time ago.  I had been using a mushroom style antenna with
an rg-59 lead that came with one of the Thunderbolts.  I have
maybe 75 feet of rg-6 lead in.

Rg-6 sold for satellite dishes or cable companies should do just fine
without requiring a second mortgage on one's house.  Try to liberate
some from your cable guy or order some from pchcables.com.

--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

All Trimble OCXOs may work in a Thunderbolt, but not all are drop-in 
replacements.
The one I got was much thicker than the original dead part, and the 
polarity of the
control signal is inverted.I got it working but it won't fit in the 
original enclosure.


On 02/25/2013 04:12 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Keep in mind that the top label on the OCXO shows the order number for the part, not it's 
part number. Anything you find at auction that's labeled "Trimble OCXO" 
probably will work with the TBolt.

Bob

On Feb 25, 2013, at 6:47 PM, Garren Davis  wrote:


That makes sense. My inner oven is about 65C. I raised it to that just to get 
the DAC voltage
close to 0v. I can raise it some more to get it between .1 and .9v.

I started to look for OCXO's but couldn't find one with the same part number as 
mine. Mine
is 37265 and the others I found did not look like they had the same pinout. 
Does the tbolt
accommodate other model OCXO's? It looks like the circuit board has extra 
through holes and
I always wondered if it was for different OCXO models.

Anyways I wanted to see if my homebuilt oven could match a commercial product. 
It was built
from a 73 Amateur Radio magazine article over 10 years ago.

Garren


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Bob Camp
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 2:11 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

Hi

A "typical" TBolt OCXO will settle out with a control voltage that's slightly 
positive (maybe 0.1 to 0.9V) rather than negative 0.7.

Since the TBolt is rated to +70C, it's a good bet that the oven in the OCXO is 
running above 85C. Once things stabilize, you may want to bump your oven 
temperature up and see what it does to the frequency.

Of course with TBolt OCXO's selling at auction for $20 you may or may not want 
to go to far with this.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Garren Davis
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 12:59 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers



Thanks. I worry a little bit because my setup is not the normal thunderbolt 
running on the shelf or a rack. The oven for my oscillator is broken so I 
removed it from the circuit board and put it in a double oven with proportional 
controller that I built for a long ago project.
The thunderbolt is in the outer oven running about 45C and the oscillator is in 
the inner oven running about 65C. The temperature rise on the display is 
probably the furnace in the house turning on this morning. I notice that the 
DAC voltage also rises and falls with the temperature change and wonder if that 
affects the oscillator in the inner oven.

I'll let it run for the rest of the week and see what happens.

Garren


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Bob Camp
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 9:35 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers

Hi

Based on a very short display time, nothing looks seriously broken. I'd suggest 
running the OCXO calibration routine at some point. Everything is still warming 
up / settling out for the first week or two, so who knows where it will finish 
out at.

Bob



-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of Garren Davis
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 12:00 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers


Hi,

I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I 
hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment 
on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I 
have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned.

Thanks.

Garren








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Re: [time-nuts] GPIB counter logging / plotting software?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The most expensive part of the setup is the interface card between the 
PC and GPIB.

Next you will need GPIB cables.

A free GPIB package is available for 32 bit Linux.  I use it to talk to 
my Racal-Dana 1992,
spectrum analyzers, selective voltmeter, and signal generator.  You have 
to write the

high level stuff.

On 02/25/2013 07:39 AM, Dan Rae wrote:
 I am working on 400 - 500 MHz DDS clocks for an amateur radio project 
and would like to record over gpib and plot the relative frequency 
drifts over time of different versions of the oscillator from a cold 
start.  I have Racal 1992 and -hp- 5345 counters available, themselves 
driven from gps.  I have the prologix USB thingy.


Does anyone know of any software that will enable me to do this, 
without spending lots of money?


Dan


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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran again

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

In Oregon Loran-C signals were much stronger than WWVB.
Loran-C could provide an alternative to WWVB that actually works in Oregon.

Not to mention a fall back to a navigation system that can be jammed
by something as small as a can of pop.

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 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] "Better" gps antennas than a Symmetricom 58532A

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

RG-6 used for satellite TV has much lower loss than RG-58,
and is much cheaper and easier to work with than Heliax or LMR400.

On 01/21/2013 10:27 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions.

Re my contemplated cable choice, my interest in using Heliax is primarily driven by 
shielding and to a lesser extent phase stability considerations. (I also happen to have 
some 1/2" Heliax and LMR400 on hand.)  I'm currently using approx 70 feet of teflon 
thin net (RG58 style) ethernet cable which I believe is less than optimal.  I expect 
switching to 1/2" heliax would also cut the cable losses by at least 10 to 15dB or 
so which would be helpful if the new antenna has significantly less gain.

I'm not relishing installing either Heliax or LMR400 for this application but 
I'm thinking if I'm going to buy a better antenna I should upgrade the cable as 
well.

Regards
Mark Spencer
  
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[time-nuts] eLoran for GPS backup

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The Brits are turning their Loran system back on to protect against GPS
outages from jamming or space weather:

http://www.gpsworld.com/uk-switches-on-eloran-for-backup-in-the-english-channel/

--
 Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX   c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Is there anything wrong with DCF77?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 01/01/2013 09:54 AM, Anthony G. Atkielski wrote:

For DCF77 a very typical source of trouble is old CRT-based televisions
or monitors, since 15625 Hz * 5 = 78125 Hz

I suppose someone nearby could have received a collector's-item
Trinitron for Christmas.

What about Wi-Fi, cell phones, and such? They are way far away in
frequency, but I'm not a radio engineer. Anything high-tech that could
interfere?

--
Anthony


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It could be a newly installed CFL or one whose filtering has just failed.
Or any switching power supply for that matter.

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Re: [time-nuts] Inexpensive modular gps with 1pps

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 12/15/2012 12:19 AM, Hal Murray wrote:

gha...@gmail.com said:

You mention "low cost units which require you to add a power connector,
etc".  Could you recommend any that can be bought online?  With RS-232,
please?

There are two obvious choices.  A bit of googling may find more details
and/or other boards.

--

The new favorite is the Sure demo board.
   http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=99
   http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=98
(The version with the Bluetooth is cheaper than the one without.  ??)

http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Sure-GPS.htm

--

The old standby is the Garmin GPS-18x-LVC.  Garmin makes several versions of
the GPS-18x.
   http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/GPS18x_TechnicalSpecifications.pdf

Be sure to get the LVC version.  The others don't have a PPS.

I got mine from Provantage for roughly $70.
   http://www.provantage.com/garmin-010-00321-36~AGRMO006.htm

Setup info:
   http://time.qnan.org/
   http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm

The GPS-18 (no x) is the older version.  You probably can't find it for sale.
  It's much less sensitive, but gave much better timing over the serial port.

--

The GlobalSat MR350P is another option.  It comes with a PS2 connector, but
you can chop that off.  Their adapter cable doesn't include the PPS.

http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-58-mr-350p-bulkhead.aspx
http://www.usglobalsat.com/store/download/58/mr350p_ds_ug.pdf

That PPS is only 1 uSec wide which may be too narrow for some/most systems to
capture.

They sell a couple of adapter cables, but none of them support PPS.

You can stretch the PPS signal with the TAPR FatPPS.
   http://www.tapr.org/kits_fatpps.html



Does this provide 10 MHz or 1pps?

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Re: [time-nuts] MT3339 PA6H and Racal Dana GPIB

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I've written GPIB stuff for the Racal-Dana counter et al. running under
32 bit Fedora Linux and the Linux GPIB package.  It is available at
ftp.omen.com in the pub/tek directory.


On 12/11/2012 03:36 PM, Fabio Eboli wrote:

Hello,
this afternoon the post(wo)man handed
to me the little box with the PA6H
GPS modules. I bought also an antenna
with 5mt cable, so I can use it in the "lab".
The module is up and running, requiring
only  3V3 supply, locking very fast,
about 30s from cold start, here is it, working
with ext antenna:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14336723@N08/8264614897/

And now I'm trying to setup a logging session
to try to log interval measurements with the
counter:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14336723@N08/8265684680/

Now this is what I have done, the goal is to
try to have some jitter measurements for the
PPS output:
- A FE5680A is the timebase for the counter
- the counter is a Racal Dana 1992
- the FE5680A 1Vpp output is connected directly
to rear reference input of the counter
- the counter measures the PPS signal from the
GPS module, Time interval A, 9 digits (single shot)
1nS resolution.

After fighting with the counter's GPIB interface
now I'm logging a stream of time intervals.
I'm not catching all the pulses, but only one each
2 or 3, depends.

- Is this setup enough to get meaningful data?
- If so how long should I log the data?
- If not what should I modify?
- Once collected the data, what kind of analysis
should I do?

And for who have ever used the Racal Dana 1992
with GPIB interface:
I feel dumb, but I could not figure how to poll
the instrument for the availability of last
data. Now the sequence i do is this:
- T1 -> wait for trigger
- T2 -> trigger
- wait 4 seconds
- read result
- T2 -> trigger
- wait 4s etc...

Doing so I catch only part of the pulses, is
there a way to make it better?

This is a graph of the first thousand records:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14336723@N08/8265826150/

Fabio.


This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] Frequency generator and counter on same external reference

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Two rules to follow.  1 - use well shielded cables for the 10 MHz 
distribution
if you wish to receive WWV 10 off the air.  The skinny cables used for 
Ethernet

generally don't cut it.

2.  Most instruments have a high impedance 10 MHz input.  Put them in 
the middle
with T connectors left over from your 10 base T days.  If you have an 
instrument
that terminates the 10 MHz input, it goes last.  Otherwise use a 
terminator at the

end.

I have an Advantest spectrum analyzer,  HP selective level meter, 
Racal-Dana counter,
Flexradio 1500, and Gigatronics generator daisy chained from a 
Thunderbolt.  Plenty

of signal, and the fat (well shielded) cables let me listen to WWV.

On 11/29/2012 07:01 AM, Tom Clifton wrote:

Good heavens, no.  By doing so, they both have the same reference and the 
measuremets actually means something. I have a stack of HP stuff (3586, 3386 
and assorted counters) all T'd off my Tbolt without issue.  The only caveat is 
that you don't put too much stuff across the T-bolt output so as to load it 
down to the point where some device can't get clocking. Before you hit that 
point, you may need a high quality (low jitter) distribution amp in the timing 
chain.

Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:42:39 +
From: Chris Wilson
  Subject: [time-nuts] Frequency generator and counter on same external 
reference?
  I am  repairing an 18GHz counter and it has a 10MHz external reference port. 
So does my elderly Marconi 2019A sig gen. Is there any potential issue having 
them both referenced off my Thunderbolt GPS referenced standard, at the same 
time?
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 10/26/2012 08:26 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
I've used the HP 3586 for measuring AM carrier frequencies as well as 
my Tek 495P (both referenced to Rb) for higher frequencies such as air 
band.


Some carriers are dead nuts on while others are quite far off (at 
least to my mind) although I've never found one outside of its 
required tolerance.


It seems possible to measure pretty accurately with these instruments, 
at least on AM or CW signals, but not sure the best way for FM.  I've 
played with the HP 53310A but haven't set it up for precise 
measurements yet, or really studied what all it is capable of.


Peter


On 10/26/2012 11:10 PM, Orin Eman wrote:
Looks like they _might_ have been 30 _Hz_ out... I had to tune to 
1188.97

to get a 1kHz beat in upper sideband mode a few minutes ago but they are
within 10Hz of where they are supposed to be now - according to my radio
anyway (I just checked the radio against WWV at 5MHz and it was less 
than

10Hz out).

Orin, KJ7HQ.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:


Hi

Not to mention attention from the guy who *should* be 3 channels over …

Bob

On Oct 26, 2012, at 10:31 PM, Peter Gottlieb  wrote:


It would attract a lot of attention from people not finding it at the

right place on the dial.

On 10/26/2012 10:09 PM, Max Robinson wrote:

The frequency of 1190 indicates an AM station.  I assume you mean 30

Hz.  An error of 30 KHz would attract a lot of attention from Charley.

Regards.

Max.  K 4 O DS.

Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Woodworking site
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html 


Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com

To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to.
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- Original Message - From: "Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R" <

c...@omen.com>

To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <

time-nuts@febo.com>

Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...



I have my 3586b slaved to my Thunderbolt along with a
Flex-1500 radio, Racal-Dana counter, Advantest Spectrum
analyzer and Gigatronics signal generator.

You might be interested to know KEX 1190 in Portland
is about 30 kHz low.  At least they aren't spewing
IBOC lately.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430


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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5355 - Release Date: 
10/26/12





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No virus found in this message.
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1189.9698  30 Hz low.  I was confused by Bush's 500 trillion tax cut.


WWV on 5 reads correct within 0.1 Hz on my CPS locked 3586b+




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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I have my 3586b slaved to my Thunderbolt along with a
Flex-1500 radio, Racal-Dana counter, Advantest Spectrum
analyzer and Gigatronics signal generator.

You might be interested to know KEX 1190 in Portland
is about 30 kHz low.  At least they aren't spewing
IBOC lately.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] They're baaaack!

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Are LightSquared still trying to get some value from their contributions?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/10/lightsquared-still-wont-give-up-on-spectrum-near-gps-band/

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=a2a98f9f-beae-4642-9ba0-a1874805f024

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Why the fuss?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I cannot think of a time-nuts WWVB reference requirement
that cannot be better satisfied with a GPSDO.

Will  NIST publish a public domain reference circuit?
That would allay patent concerns.

--
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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] Gigatronics 6061A Manual request

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Would much appreciate.  Closest I've found is stuff for 607x generators.
My mail server should be able to take any size PDF file.


On 09/22/2012 04:45 PM, k4...@aol.com wrote:

Chuck,
Did someone send you a manual?  I have a 6062A, probably very similar 
and I have the manual on a CD.  I can send it to you (preferably 
off-line if you don't mind giving me your email address).

Regards,
Doug, K4CLE

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-Original message-----
From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R 
Sent: Fri, Sep 21, 2012 08:40:36 GMT+00:00
Subject: [time-nuts] Gigatronics 6061A Manual request

Does anyone have a PDF of the user and/or service
manual for a Gigatronics/Fluke 6061A synthesized RF signal generator?



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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Gigatronics 6061A Manual request

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Does anyone have a PDF of the user and/or service
manual for a Gigatronics/Fluke 6061A synthesized RF signal generator?

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Interesting...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

$1500 each according to EE Times.

On 09/19/2012 10:18 PM, Ken Duffill wrote:

On 20/09/12 05:11, Gregory Muir wrote:

http://www.symmetricom.com/lp/gbu/csac-landing-page/
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Yes interesting.

Anybody got a ball-park figure for the cost of one of these things?

Ken

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Re: [time-nuts] HP10514B Mixer Terminations

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

In the late 60s I built a VLF upconverter using a ring mixer.
I tried a few different devices for the diodes.
The base/collector junctions of germanium switching transistors
gave the best results.


On 09/09/2012 03:21 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote:
NIST have indicated that mixer PN noise measurements with a non 
dissipative terminations (even RF) are intended to be made.


Using a discrete mixer using diode connected transistors may also be 
useful at least for 5MHz and 10MHz input frequencies in that their 
flicker noise can be significantly lower than for mixers using diodes. 
NIST used a simple diplexer arrangement that terminates the RF sum 
frequency in 50 ohms whilst using a reactive termination for the 
difference frequency.
With such a termination the minicircuits phase detectors had lower 
measured PN noise than the 10514.


Another issue to consider is saturated or unsaturated (linear) 
operation of the mixer.
Saturated operation, for most mixers, produces lower  noise (flicker 
and floor) however linear operation can have for some mixers lower 
phase shift tempco which can be important depending on the environment 
and required phase shift stability.


Bruce

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

In general, you terminate the mixer in 50 ohms at the RF frequencies 
(say 10 and 20 MHz). Termination at the "IF" (in this case audio) 
frequencies is what turns out to be tricky. Any time you terminate a 
source in a high impedance, you get a higher output voltage. 
Reactance rarely adds noise to a termination. With a DMTD, slew rate 
is the issue, generally mixer noise goes up less than the slew rate 
increases with a "non-50 ohm" termination.


Bob



On Sep 9, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Bruce 
Griffiths  wrote:



David Kirkby wrote:
On 9 September 2012 18:28, Pascual Arbona   
wrote:



 Hello Brian,
  I am a radio amateur and and also in the Time nuts 
list,  At the moment I am planning to bild a DMTD for 
experimentation. and as you have a nice experience in this field , 
for me will be very wellcame your help. My ask is ¿whitch is te 
best temination for the mixer? (FI 10Hz or 100Hz)  ¿what about the 
amp, limiters and zero crosing detec.)



Mixers should be terminated in 50 Ohms - at least at all frequencies
where there is an output. Someone mentioned minicircuits. They sell
constant impedance filters, where the impedance in the both the
passband and stopband are 50 Ohms. Most filters have a impedance far
away from 50 Ohms in the stopband.



This is an often repeated fallacy.
For low IF frequencies such as in a DMTD, a reactive IF termination 
can have the advantage of lower noise and larger IF signal slew rate.
The resultant reduction in RF and LO port VSWR is easily corrected 
(at least for low RF and LO frequencies) with a series resistor 
and/or resistive pad.
There are a number of NIST papers on the effect of mixer termination 
for DMTDs and phase noise measurements.
The minicircuits phase detectors (actually specialised mixers) are 
specified for use with 500 ohm IF terminations.

I don't know the details of what you are trying to do, but keep in
mind what I said.

Dave

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Bruce

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] New wrist Watch

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 09/09/2012 07:05 AM, Stan, W1LE wrote:

Hello The Net:

I need to consider getting a new wrist watch, but I need a second hand 
and a digital display is unacceptable.


What would you consider in the < 150$ price range ?

Would be nice to have state of the art accuracy with a "lifetime 
battery" and high reliability.


Thanks,   Stan, W1LE Cape CodFN41sr

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Since the determining factor in the accuracy of a wrist watch these days
is you reaction time in setting it to the announcements on WWV,
I'd go to Walmart or Target and find something cheap.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 09/01/2012 02:17 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

On 09/01/2012 08:35 AM, Hal Murray wrote:

The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing.

I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control 
signal

that the kernel PPS stuff watches.  Mostly, it works as expected, but
occasionally, it picks or drops a cycle.

In order to understand what was going on, I fed the same signal into the
audio input and setup a job to capture the audio.  Here is an example 
of a

pick:
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a-pick.png 


http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a0.png
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a1.png

OK, that somewhat makes sense.


Something happened several days ago.  I used to get picks/drops 
rarely, say

ballpark of 1 a month.  Now I'm getting 10 or 20 per day.  So I started
looking closer.

I'm now seeing stuff like this.  I've got lots and lots of examples.  
I added

a second PC with different hardware.  It sees the same stuff.

Does anybody recognize this?

http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-a0.png
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-b0.png
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-c0.png
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-d0.png
http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-e0.png




It's interesting to notice that you have about the same distance from 
the middle in all 5 examples. It's like you trigger a diode drop for a 
while. Notice that there is a small slope towards zero.


Cheers,
Magnus

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I have noticed many stalls in Windows lately, possibly the result of 
Flash and Firefox not getting along.

The first plot suggests a multitasking related problem.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a bought and finally working!

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

If it is a really good Rb standard, consider adjusting the
standard yourself by measuring the phase over several
days once the standard has warmed up and settled down.
A GPIB counter with phase measurement is useful for this.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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[time-nuts] hp 3586 parts

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I'd like to find a spare processor board for the 3586 to play with.

Also I'd like to find the little metal piece that fits over the front panel
between the keyboard area and the display area.

I designed 6800 based comms equipment in the 70s.
Would love to scarf the source code for the 3586.

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Re: [time-nuts] HP-3586x Beethoven Test...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The mother of all Easter eggs! The boffins that hacked this code
in the 1970s had serious class.

This should make these instruments priceless on Ebay.

On 07/30/2012 02:03 PM, Burt I. Weiner wrote:


“Recall”, “decimal point”, “CENTR FREQ”, “8” and then wait. 


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[time-nuts] Cables dor 10 mHz

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I am driving a Flexradio 1500, Racal-Dana 1992 counter,
Advantest U3641 spectrum analyzer, and my new
HP 3586B+ selective  level meter with the 10 mHz from
my Thunderbolt.  I had been using some old Ethernet cables
to drive this lot until last weekend.

I noticed that WWV on 10 mHz was being swamped by
leakage from these old cheap cables.  This weekend I
replaced the lot with fat instrumentation grade cables.
This appears to have prevented the Thunderbolt's 10 mHz
from messing with Boulder's signal.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] Active antennas for a Thunderbolt...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

My first Thunderbolt related GPS antenna was the mushroom model
that came with my first kit from China.  It had a length of 50 ohm
rg58 attached.  I added another 50 feet of rg6 to reach the Thunderbolt
in my office.  It worked fine but needed an amp to drive two Thunderbolts.

I then bought one of the 40bd antennas that appeared on Ebay.  I used
some rg6  filched from the cable installer so I  have enough downlead
to raise the GPS antenna higher to get a better sky view.  The 40db unit
seems to be able to drive two Thunderbolts without an amp.  Still
need the amp if I want to see anything on a spectrum analyzer.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I decided rather than order another adapter which might not fit I'd put 
a BNC
connector in for the wide band input.  Electrically it is trivial as 
claimed.
Mechanically, I had to make a large hole in the plastic front panel to 
allow tthe

BNC plug to slip on.

This is the first complex HP instrument I've had.  I was right at home 
with the
1980 construction.  The first computers I designed for Sidereal in 1975 
also used the 6800.


So do I call it a 3586B+ or B-?


On 07/28/2012 06:36 PM, Didier Juges wrote:

It is absolutely trivial to put a BNC on the A and well worth it.

HTTP://www.KO4BB.com/Test_Equipment/HP_3586_Modified.jpg

One less connector interface to worry about, and less risk of getting the cable 
tangled up and breaking the adapter.
And it looks good.

The 3586 Option 003 has the same bandwidth selections as the C model.
Without Option 003, the 3100Hz bw is replaced with 1740 Hz , not nearly as 
useful.

Didier KO4BB



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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I ordered a BCJ-VWP adapter from Markertek.
A week and $18 later it shows up but does not fit my 3586B.
It is too fat to go into the connector on the HP, and the center
pin is way too fat..


On 07/19/2012 04:48 AM, Bill Riches wrote:

Purchase the Canare BCJ-VWP adapter from Martertech or other suppliers.

Bill Riches, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ


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Re: [time-nuts] 5MHz ocxo

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

How about a 10 MHz OCXO and a divide by two chip?   Maybe an op-amp to 
change and/or invert

the control voltage?

On 07/25/2012 02:05 PM, Paul Flinders wrote:
I've finally had chance to pull my Rapco 1804M GPS conditioned 
oscillator apart to try to debug it.


To recap I bought this a few months ago from an ebay vendor. It was 
fine at first (for a few hours) although I needed a better antenna or 
better site for the one I have but the second chance I had to spend 
any time on the antenna the 1804M itself decided to develop a fault 
running for a few seconds then restarting the firmware.


It looks like the ocxo has died - pulling it from the unit and running 
it stand alone produces  a similar result, 10MHz output for a short 
while, then it dies. Presumably this is related to the oven heating up 
and a dry joint or something else that doesn't like getting 
warm/expanding.


The ocxo in the Rapco is an HCD-66-SC 5MHz 12V unit. They are 
completely sealed and I doubt I could get into it without destroying 
it so repair seems out of the question.


There is a UK supplier of HCD Research ocxo's and although the HCD-66 
is clearly obsolete, a current unit - the HCD-660 looks about the 
right spec (http://www.golledge.com/docs/products/ocxos/hcd660.htm). 
However I'm pretty certain that if I have to "request a quote" the 
price will be beyond what I can afford to spend fixing the unit.


The only 5MHz ocxo available on fleabay is a Symmetricomunit but the 
auction has no data on it, nor can I find any on the net. It's obvious 
from the photos though that there are a couple of extra pins compared 
with the HCD-66 so it wouldn't fit the PCB.


Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a suitable (used) 
replacement?



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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586 Questions

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I found some information on the 3586 by looking at
the service manual PDF.  The processor is a Motorola 6800,
the same family I used in 1975 for Sidereal.  According to
the parts list, the 32768 ROMS are in sockets.

Two revisions of firmware are discussed.  The newer
revision can be identified by the 3586 starting up
with 10k input instead of 75 ohms.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430




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[time-nuts] HP 3586 Questions

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Now that I have my new [30 year old] HP 3586 making measurements
over the GPIB bus I have a few questions.

Setting AVErage makes measurements take about three seconds.
Is there a way to control the number of samples averaged?

How difficult is it to open up the 3586 to replace the input connector
with a BNC connector?

Is there a way to update and/or hack the firmware?  Is source code
available?

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

KEX 1190 in Portland Oregon has been 30 Hz low for several hours.
The first field is Unix time, seconds since 1970 GMT.

The 3586B is using the Thunderbolt's 10 MHz for its frequency reference.


1342774022 -45.416000 119.10
1342774112 -45.774000 119.10
1342799196 -48.755000 119.10
1342799282 -48.707000 119.10
1342800646 -48.945000 119.10
1342800731 -48.912000 119.00
1342800818 -48.946000 119.00
1342800904 -49.013000 119.10
1342800989 -48.855000 119.10
1342801076 -78.562000 1189970.30   ---  dropping off the sides of 
the 20 Hz filter!

1342801163 -78.582000 1189970.30
1342801251 -78.594000 1189970.30
1342801338 -78.464000 1189970.30
1342801427 -78.509000 1189970.30
1342808721 -78.673000 1189970.40

The liberal talker on 620 is 7.1 Hz high.
KUIK 1360 is about 5 low.

On 07/19/2012 06:12 AM, Lester Veenstra wrote:

Hi Chuck
I have number of these   Make great precision receivers
Use it on the Thunderbolt, and turn on the 0.1 Hz counter to see if WWF is
on freq. HI

More interesting game is to look at foreign broadcast carriers to see who
are running professional plants locked to a standard, and who are the cheap
outfits that somewhere the right freq.
  73
Les


Lester B Veenstra  MØYCM K1YCM W8YCM
les...@veenstras.com

US Postal Address:
5 Shrine Club Drive
HC84 Box 89C
Keyser WV 26726
GPS: 39.33675 N  78.9823527 W

Telephones:
Home:+1-304-289-6057 Corrected
US cell   +1-304-790-9192  Changed to permanent number
Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141
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This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or

privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by
the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the
intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to
the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is
prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
Sent: 19 July 2012 02:22
To: time-nuts
Subject: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter

Got one of these massive (by today's standards) beasts the other day.
It has the option 003.  Quite the light show when it powers up.

I have its external reference daisy chained with a radio and two other
instruments sucking 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt.

I have not decided what to do with the AT&T front panel input.
Should I get a BNC adapter for it?  Or replace it with a BNC
connector?



--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430




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[time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Got one of these massive (by today's standards) beasts the other day.
It has the option 003.  Quite the light show when it powers up.

I have its external reference daisy chained with a radio and two other
instruments sucking 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt.

I have not decided what to do with the AT&T front panel input.
Should I get a BNC adapter for it?  Or replace it with a BNC
connector?

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Offhand I'd estimate it would be easier for some "bad guys"
to put a crude A-bomb on top of a SCUD and put America
into the horse and buggy age with an EMP attack than to
take out a significant number of GPS satellites.

NLK in Washington state has been off the for almost
two months now.  Depending on which list one looks at,
NLK transmits on 24.8 with 300 to 1000 kilowatts.
Perhaps NLK could be retuned to send the WWVB signal.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Apply the Peltier to the cabinet.
Or put the Tbolt in a fridge.
Mount the Tbolt on a granite slab inside the cabinet so lorries won't 
affect it.


On 07/13/2012 04:55 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote:

Peltier cooler on top of the OCXO or on top of the TBolt?

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
wrote:


How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler?


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler?

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Sorry about the bad URL. I corrected it below.
On 07/12/2012 12:22 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

I mounted mine in a cabinet along with a power line filter
and power supply.  Pics at www.omen.com/wa7kgx/ham.html
The filter is important if you are a ham or SWL.

The temp hangs around 35C.  The cat likes to sit on it as it
is slightly warm.

The Rb oscillator and its 15 volt power supply have been
removed.


The Tbolt in its cabinet currently sits atop my office computer,
next to a south facing window.  Putting it in a dark corner would
doubtlessly improve its temperature stability but the cat would be
disappointed.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430



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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I mounted mine in a cabinet along with a power line filter
and power supply.  Pics at www.omen.com/wa7kgx.ham.html
The filter is important if you are a ham or SWL.

The temp hangs around 35C.  The cat likes to sit on it as it
is slightly warm.

The Rb oscillator and its 15 volt power supply have been
removed.

--
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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430




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Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a...

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

WWVB is weak in the Oregon Rain Forest.   Oregon Scientific
weather station consoles rarely get a good signal at my place.
Ditto for a Radio Shack alarm clock.

I did get workable reception back in the 70s using a PLL
circuit from a book.  That was before CFLs and switching
power supplies.  Loran-C signals were strong enough to
overload some active antennas.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] HP 117/10509a

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Some time ago I made a 60 kHz antenna by winding a zillion turns of wire
on a ferrite loopstick tuned with a padder condenser.  This connected to
the gate of a 2n4416 or mpf102.   This was quite selective and sensitive.


On 07/05/2012 02:45 AM, Tom Van Baak (lab) wrote:

Schematics for all versions of the 10509A antenna:
http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10509a/

/tvb (iPhone4)


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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt leap second video

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

A 61 second minute...

Just curious - can GPS handle a fall back second?

On 07/01/2012 12:50 AM, Esa Heikkinen wrote:

Leap second capture of Lady Heather screen.
Select 720p to see it properly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvMZikqtI4



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Re: [time-nuts] Naive reference oscillator qustion, but has to be asked!

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

You could use a frequency synth with an external 10 MHz reference
to generate the required 15.6 MHz signal.


On 06/29/2012 02:54 AM, Chris Wilson wrote:


   29/06/2012 10:49

Titter if you must, but if you don't ask, you don't learn. My newly
acquired Kenwood TS-590 transceiver has an option for a temperature
controlled reference xtal module. The specs for it are :

  Output Frequency . . . . . . . . . .  15.6 MHz
  Temperature Stability
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Within +/- 0.5 ppm (–10°C ~ 50°C)
  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Within +/- 1.0 ppm (–20°C ~ 60°C)
  Frequency Stability (long term) . . . within +/- 1.0 ppm/year
  Output . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . 1.0 Vp-p (10 k ohm // 10 pf)

Could the output of a GPS disciplined 10MHz standard be altered
in frequency for this purpose? Thanks.



--
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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA glitches

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 06/12/2012 07:20 AM, Dan Rae wrote:
While generally behaving really well my  NTGS50AA does apparently show 
an unusual sensitivity to being moved.  The attached LH plot shows 
what happened when it was moved slightly on the bench two or three 
times.  What surprises me is that the DAC plot remains offset after 
everything else has settled.  It's not like I hit it with a hammer or 
anything.  Is this normal behaviour?


Dan




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At this level of precision any bump is likely to cause the OCXO to 
change noticeably.


Is tere a way to update a Thunderbolt to the latest version of GPS?

--
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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA, better than Thunderbolt?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

OK, what are the differences between

37265
34310
49422

The 32765 is in one of my thunderbolts.

I replaced the failed OCXO in another Thunderbolt with the 49422.
The 49422 has a different pinout, is taller, and has opposite gain.

Is there a difference in stability?  Any pin for pin replacement
for the 37265?

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] NTGS50AA, better than Thunderbolt?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

What is the difference between the -T2 and plain  -T???

On 05/31/2012 06:48 PM, Mark Sims wrote:

Trimble 34310-T2


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Re: [time-nuts] Something with GPS??

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 05/27/2012 05:41 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

Last evening my Thunderbolt was losing satellites until
none were reported usable.  At the same time the
K5FX Thunderbolt  was down to one or no usable birds.

This afternoon I dug out my other thunderbolt, the first
one I got.  That one had a defective OCXO which I replaced
with a 49422.  That couldn't get any usable birds either.

Now things are back to normal.  K5FX is happy and so
are both of my Thunderbolts.

So -- What happened?  Anyone else notice something
out of the ordinary?  Someone practicing GPS jamming?

BTW Is there a spot on the Thunderbolt where I can
sample the RF or IF to feed a spectrum analyzer?  The signal
coming down the coax is too weak to see on my
analyzers.



The local problem appears to be a corroded F Connector.

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[time-nuts] Something with GPS??

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Last evening my Thunderbolt was losing satellites until
none were reported usable.  At the same time the
K5FX Thunderbolt  was down to one or no usable birds.

This afternoon I dug out my other thunderbolt, the first
one I got.  That one had a defective OCXO which I replaced
with a 49422.  That couldn't get any usable birds either.

Now things are back to normal.  K5FX is happy and so
are both of my Thunderbolts.

So -- What happened?  Anyone else notice something
out of the ordinary?  Someone practicing GPS jamming?

BTW Is there a spot on the Thunderbolt where I can
sample the RF or IF to feed a spectrum analyzer?  The signal
coming down the coax is too weak to see on my
analyzers.


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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Morion Crystal Oscillator Double Oven

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Is this any good?  Price on Ebay is affordable.

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[time-nuts] How to get Lady Heather to dhow dBc?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

How can I get Lade Heather to show dBc instead of AMU?
I have vsn 3 beta.

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Re: [time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 04/24/2012 07:40 AM, David J Taylor wrote:
Is everyone buying these because they have 40dB gain or because they 
are the only reasonably priced GPS timing antennas on eBay right now?


Thomas Knox


Thomas,

I bought mine because of the gain, but on +5V it performs worse than a 
"38 dBi" antenna, quite a lot worse.  I'm wonder whether it needs more 
volts, or whether it's simply broken.  It was ex-equipment, and not in 
very good shape, but it was described as "used" so I'll just write off 
the loss, I suppose.


BTW: I did appreciate the discussion on Chinese 'scopes - I ended up 
getting a DS1052E and I'm delighted with it, considering the price.


Cheers,
David
My Tbolt with a  Lucent 40 dB antenna was able to pick up two birds in 
my office during a rainy period.

A Droid held next to it did not see any birds.
I have not gotten around to trying the Lucent outside.

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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Lucent 40 dB Antenna

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

My Lucent antenna arrived today.  I scrounged some adapters
and connected it to my Thunderbolt.  Two birds were visible
with AMU > 4 when I held the antenna.  My Droid 3 could not
see any birds through the wet roof.

The unit has some dings and scrapes but no visible corrosion.

I am tempted to take it apart but don't wish to break a unit
which seems to be working well.

Has anyone compared this antenna with the mushroom that
came from China with the used Thunderbolts???

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Improving performance of a GPS antenna...?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

What sort of interference??  What is causing it?  Any possibility of 
correcting it?


I am interested in more information. Will look for whats later in the 
thread. I have a situation where there is interference coming from a 
specific direction (close to the horizon). Is it feasible to 
block/attenuate/absorb L-band signals from one direction? -- Björn 
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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Improving performance of a GPS antenna...?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

If foliage does such a number on GPS signals, just fill a big garbage bag
with yard debris and set the antenna in the middle of that.

On 04/04/2012 05:53 AM, Michael Baker wrote:

Hello, Time-Nutters--

I saw a rather expensive GPS antenna made by one of the
big-name GPS survey equipment mfgrs that was mounted
on top of a 12 or 15 inch diameter disc about 3/4 inch thick.

Turns out that the disc is made of some sort of RF absorbent
foam covered by a weather-proofing coating of some sort.

If one were to try to home-brew something like this, where
would a small piece of the RF absorbent material be obtained
without having to spend too much $$ for this experiment?

Thanks for any feedback on this!!

Mike Baker
WA4HFR


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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Antenna for t-bolt

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I got a mushroom shaped antenna along with my Thunderbolt.
It came with some rg58 terminated in an F connector.
I don't know if it is a timing reference antenna or just a plain
GPS antenna.

Presumably a timing antenna would block low elevation signals
to reduce multipath.

On 04/02/2012 09:11 PM, Chuck Harris wrote:

Hi Didier,

I have one of the Trimble Bullet antennas, that was supposed to be from
a working system, but it is deaf as a post... really dead.  Given that
it is supposed to be more than 30db gain, it should do better than any
of the hockey puck antennas.

I wonder if there is a common failure mode in that antenna?

-Chuck Harris

Didier Juges wrote:

I have a Symetricom 58532A which I bought on eBay for $50 with shipping.
That is probably the best antenna you can get, and it won't break the 
bank.
I also have a Trimble Bullet, the antenna that was designed to go 
with the
Tunderbolt. It is a very good antenna also, but harder to find, and 
it has
lower gain than the 58532A, so at my location (under the roof in 
Florida),

at the end of 50 feet of good quality 75 ohm coax, the Symetricom unit
works better.
I also have several pucks, including very inexpensive Chinese-made 
ones and
a very nice Trimble mag-mount puck that is the best of all the pucks 
I have

(in terms of performance and also mechanical design) and which I got for
$15 on eBay also. They all work, but the Trimble puck is the one I 
take if

I need to go mobile.
Most the pucks I have receive better than the Trimble Bullet. They are
probably not as good as far as multipath rejection for low angle 
signals,

but they are more sensitive and I see more satellites with them.

Didier KO4BB

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Bill Riches  
wrote:



Hi guys,

I have asked this question several times over the past few weeks and 
get no

answer.  Have I been ostracized??!!

Question is that I am looking for suggestions for GPS antenna for 
t-bolt.
The antenna that I am using now is a no name and I not know where it 
came

from!  Wonder if a Garman GA-30 will work?

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ





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--
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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Antenna for T-bolt

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The booster amps used for satellite dishes work on GPS as well.
I used one when I was feeding two Thunderbolts thru a splitter.

On 04/02/2012 03:28 PM, Bob Martin wrote:

Bill--

The Thunderbolt wants a higher gain antenna than most standard GPS receivers.  
I tried standard Garmin active antennas, and while they worked (I have a good 
view of the sky), signal levels could be better.

Best match probably is something like the HP/Symmetricom 58532A antenna, which has gain>  
30dB -- most "active" GPS antennas are in the 24 - 26 dB range.

They're not cheap, but they'll do the job.

If you have much distance to cover, feed line is of course important as well -- 
9913, LMR 400, good quality RG6, something with low loss at 1.5 GHz.

I'm using a 58532A feeding a Symmetricom 58535A active GPS splitter to run a 
Thunderbolt and a Datum Tymserve 2100.  Feedline is 9913 to the splitter, and 
short LMR 195 SMA cables from there.  (Yes you can find F to SMA adapters, on 
eBay, even though many will shudder at the concept...)

73 Bob K6RTM



On Apr 2, 2012, at 15:01, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:


--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:39:40 -0400
From: "Bill Riches"
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"

Subject: [time-nuts] Antenna for t-bolt
Message-ID:<01ac01cd1119$1c699af0$553cd0d0$@ric...@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="US-ASCII"

Hi guys,

I have asked this question several times over the past few weeks and get no
answer.  Have I been ostracized??!!

Question is that I am looking for suggestions for GPS antenna for t-bolt.
The antenna that I am using now is a no name and I not know where it came
from!  Wonder if a Garman GA-30 will work?

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Interesting article on magnetic storms

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

http://geomag.usgs.gov/storms/

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] New GNSS chips from Maxim

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I wonder if a GPSDO could be built around these chips.

 Original Message 
Subject:Maxim EE-Mail #12.11 - March 17, 2012
Date:   Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:52:26 -0700
From:   Maxim EE-Mail 
Reply-To:   maxim-eemail-in...@blast.maxim-ic.com
Organization:   Maxim Integrated Products
To: c...@omen.com



html message Notification To: c...@omen.com

Maxim - Innovation Delivered 
 
		

EE-Mail™

March 17, 2012



New Products


Press release: Maxim Advances the Performance of GNSS Systems with 
Introduction of its Automotive Grade Universal Receiver and Front End 
Amplifier 



Maxim Integrated Products Inc. (NASDAQ: MXIM) introduces the MAX2769B 
 
and MAX2670 
, 
next-generation high performance solutions specifically designed to 
address Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) applications. These 
flexible receiver solutions are capable of operating over the navigation 
standards, GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, and Compass and have completed PPAP 
and AEC-Q100 approval.


More Info > 




Subscription Control


*Note: Do not reply to this automated email.*

You can use these convenient links to take action:

• Review My Subscription 

• Provide Feedback 

• Maxim Home Page 
 
| My Maxim 
 
| Privacy Policy 



Maxim EE-Mail delivers weekly announcements about New Products,
Application Notes, and Design Guides in the product areas of your choice.

To view this newsletter online, visit this page 
.


*Not a subscriber?* Sign up here 




Maxim Integrated Products, Inc.
120 San Gabriel Dr, Sunnyvale, CA 94086


Source: MSG_KEY-316-7952-D935A2EE705211E1B41CF7602559CF9D

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[time-nuts] Chinese credit card fraud

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Early this week I noticed two strange charges to my credit card account.
An investigation indicates these charges were made in China.

FYI.  Vigilance advised.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB BPSK Receiver Project?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

How about this:  Generate a precise 60 KHz signal from a GPSDO's 10 MHz.
Modulate it with 1 bit audio generated by a Linux program which would know
about DST.  Feed this to a loop around the house to give a good 60 Khz 
signal

inside but little outside.

I have thought of this to keep my Atomic Clocks working :-)

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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB BPSK Receiver Project?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Asus has a $30 Xonar PCI soundcard that should do the job.
I have two of the the more expensive  pci-e versions.  Some motherboards
can do a/d at 192 but not as well as the Xonar.

I made a 60 KHz antenna by winding a zillion turns on a ferrite
rod and a padder going into the gate of a FET.   This was in the
1970s.

On 03/14/2012 03:35 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Brooke Clarke  wrote:

Hi:

I sure would like a WWVB BPSK receiver for the new modulation.  The
processing gains described in the paper John Seamons linked describes
processing gains that are tens of dB above what's possible with the old AM
data format.  John has also measures the experimental phase modulation
testing, see:  http://www.jks.com/wwvb/wwvb.html
The WWB paper "New Improved System for WWVB Broadcast" given at the 43rd
PTTI November 2011 is at:  http://jks.com/wwvb.pdf

Part of the processing gain comes directly from the BPSK modulation and that
amounts to a little over 10 dB improvement, but there's a further 18 dB gain
to be had by accumulating an hours worth of data and processing that.

I'm sure in time there will be plenty of low cost ICs designed to receive
the new signal, but my guess is that many Time Nuts would like to be in on
the ground floor.  Also NIST probably would like to get reports on the new
signal when they do test transmissions.

How to move forward?

I'd say to go "100% SDR".  In other words a simple front and that
pushes as much of the functionality into software as possible.   The
carrier is only 60K.  That is low enough that one can directly
digitize the RF using an ADC that samples at only 192K/sec.
192K/Sec is a common sample rte for high-end audio and you can buy a
24-bit dual channel interface for under $200.

So I'd use an antenna (the best would be a shielded loop with many
turns of wire but ferrite "loop stick" could work) Follow that be an
RF amp and very narrow filter and then the above 24-bit 192K ADC.
With a 24-bit ADC you may not need any automatic gain control.   So yo
are almost sampling the voltage off the antenna, so that's why I
called it "100% SDR"

Once the data are inside the computer the very next step might be an FFT.

Some good easy to use software is this:
http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/wiki/GNURadioCompanion
Using this you simply drop function blocks on a screen and connect
then with lines.  It's a visual drag and drop way to build a signal
processor

As  an example to build a spectrum analyzer you drop a block the
represents your audio interface, another for the FFT operator and a
third for a graph.  Connect them together.Then plug in a
microphone and point it as something you want to plot.

If you do use the simplest possible RF front and that can still work,
followed by a common off the shelf audio interface and then a simple
graphical programming environment you then will have a wider community
of people working on this.You could use more complex technology
like an FPGA or a DSP chip but then the number of people who would
know how to help will be a number close to zero.

The RF front end does not need to be sophisticated because much of the
selectivity and gain control is done in software.  You just need a
hard low pass filter to remove everything above 60KHz



--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke, N6GCE
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/Brooke4Congress.html


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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] 0MHz distribution...NOT

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

On 03/10/2012 04:44 PM, Mark Spencer wrote:

I've done this as well.

I daisy chained several pieces of hp and marconi gear together that all had an 
approx 1k ohm input impedance for the frequency reference and fed them from a 
single 10 Mhz source via t connectors with a 50 ohm terminator at the end of 
the line.   Looking at the signal with either a scope or a time interval 
counter I have seen noticeable phase shifts when some of the equipment 
receiving this signal is turned off or on.   That being said so long as the 
equipment was not turned off or on the adev of the signal was as expected.   
Your mileage may vary.

Sent from my iPad

On 2012-03-10, at 4:24 PM, Michael Blazer  wrote:


You may want to take a look at the signal on a scope.  Most instruments 
terminate their reference input.  You might actually have 4 50 ohm loads on the 
Thunderbolt's output and the input voltage might be marginal.  If your 
instruments have both reference input and output, it's better to daisy chain 
the units.


On 3/10/2012 5:10 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:

A month or two ago I had sketched out a simple distribution amp
for my 10 MHz reference.   In the meantime I became somewhat
disillusioned about my FE-5680a standards.   So I removed the
FE-5680a and disconnected its power supply from the box that
holds the Thunderbolt, power supply, and big line filter.

I decided to try daisy-chaining the Thunderbolt's 10 MHz output.
I have plenty of hardware left over from the days of 10BaseT networking.

So I have the Thunderbolt going to a BNC T on the back of my FlexRadio 1500,
hence to my Advantest U3641 spectrum analyzer, and finally to the external
reference on my Racal-Dana 1992 nanosecond universal counter.  That end
has a 50 ohm termination on the other side of its T connector.

All three devices seem happy with the 10 MHz they are receiving.


I connected my Tek 2712 to the end of the chain.  It reads +10dbm +-1db.

Switching units on/off/ext ref causes less than 1db change in the 10 MHz.


--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] 0MHz distribution...NOT

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

A month or two ago I had sketched out a simple distribution amp
for my 10 MHz reference.   In the meantime I became somewhat
disillusioned about my FE-5680a standards.   So I removed the
FE-5680a and disconnected its power supply from the box that
holds the Thunderbolt, power supply, and big line filter.

I decided to try daisy-chaining the Thunderbolt's 10 MHz output.
I have plenty of hardware left over from the days of 10BaseT networking.

So I have the Thunderbolt going to a BNC T on the back of my FlexRadio 1500,
hence to my Advantest U3641 spectrum analyzer, and finally to the external
reference on my Racal-Dana 1992 nanosecond universal counter.  That end
has a 50 ohm termination on the other side of its T connector.

All three devices seem happy with the 10 MHz they are receiving.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Heathkit GC-1000 WWVDO

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

In the late 70s I added WWVB to the micro that controlled
my RTTY autostart station.  A circuit in an application manual
demodulated the WWVB signal and a software loop synced
to the on-the-second transitions and decoded the time information.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] More Static at LightSquared

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Does this mean your GPS is safe?  Who knows.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/28/lightsquared-ceo-resigns-amid-revelations-of-companys-proximity-to-obama-white-house/

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] How best to exchange Large files?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I would need about as many steps to use NFS - substitute mounting a share
for logging in.  In addition, I can telnet into Mother from other 
locations if needed.


On 02/21/2012 04:10 PM, bownes wrote:

Wow. I just save it to an nfs share on the NAS. Then I can get to it from 
anywhere in the house/world...

Have not seen anyone use kermit or zmodem orsplit or rar or uuencode for a long 
long time.





On Feb 21, 2012, at 18:59, Chris Albertson  wrote:


On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Robert Darlington
  wrote:

Gotcha.   Try using something like WinRAR to chunk up your file into
multiple parts or the UNIX "split" command.   In the very least that's
a way to get it to somebody that can reassemble it for distribution on
a web server.

That works but it is 100% manual.  Today we have software that will
break up files, send the bits and reassemble them and will even let
you shut off one of both computers and automatically restart.
Torrent is the best known of these.It will just carry one in the
background and if more people want the file it will take advantage of
the added bandwidth.   With magnetic links you can send someone an
email and say "click here for the file" and it will "just work".   No
one has to slip or reassemble the file.

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] How best to exchange Large files?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I *am* uploading the files directly to my Linux server,
called "Mother" (as in Alien).

On 02/21/2012 03:48 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
  wrote:

After collecting a new set of data, I need to create a new directory
to receive those files.  I stop Kismet, restart the wifi supplicant,
log into my Linux server, create the new directory, cd to it,
and transfer the files with the ZMODEM delete source on successful
transfer option.

What a complex setup!  Can't you user some of the Linux server's disk
space and write the files directly to that disk?   Seems that would be
much better.


I used to use a story about how an amateur mason builds a brick
wall  He goes to Home Depot and loads bricks on the cart, pushes
the cart through the checkout and unloads into his pickup truck,
drives home and unloads the truck on the driveway.   Later he restacks
the bricks near where the wall is to be built.   Then one by one takes
bricks off the stack and places them on the wall.   He lifts every
brick five times

The professional has the brick company deliver the bricks three feet
from where the wall is to be built.  He lifts each brick once. (and
likely pays less for the bricks)

I've used this story in data processing system designs when I see
people moving data around. I say "think, where is the final place
you want your data.  Then just put it there to begin with and be done
with it."

So, just open some kind of connection and put the data where it goes.
Even a little Arduino has more then enough power for that.

(Yes I actually did the brick wall the wrong way, once.  Never again.)

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] How best to exchange Large files?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

After collecting a new set of data, I need to create a new directory
to receive those files.  I stop Kismet, restart the wifi supplicant,
log into my Linux server, create the new directory, cd to it,
and transfer the files with the ZMODEM delete source on successful
transfer option.

On 02/21/2012 02:28 PM, Robert Darlington wrote:

Typically you can resume ftp transfers with the "reget" command.  It
has to be implemented on the server.

There are tons of file sharing services on the web that are free.  Why
go back to the 1980s?

-Bob

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R
  wrote:

I use ZMODEM over telnet to upload wi-fi survey files to Mother.


On 02/21/2012 02:16 PM, ehydra wrote:

I think most users have ADSL, where the problem is the low upload
bandwidth. If the connection drops, the whole file is lost.

The download is much faster and so there is a good change to save the
whole file.
If not:
If the web-browser and the file-owning server understand reconect, one can
retry the download and then the old file merges with the new part without
further effort.

So I wonder if FTP does it the same way? Any experience?


My problem is that I want to send a big file to another person, but my
internet upload bandwidth is way to small.

Any suggestions? I run a web-server with PHP and a FTP-server.

As I learned from the thread a torrent-app is not enough. Transfering via
POP3 looks impossible because seldom the two email-server will have both
account limitations beyond 100MB.

cheers -
Henry


David J Taylor schrieb:

Hi:

I've used:
https://www.yousendit.com/
with no problems.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke


.. but the limit on that service has changed from 100 MB down to 50 MB,
making it rather less useful to me.

Cheers,
David



--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430



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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I suspect we do better educating special needs children than most of 
those 25 countries.


On 02/21/2012 02:33 PM, Tom Knox wrote:

Sadly I heard recently that the US is 27th in Math and 25th in Science. I 
challenge the old DXers too name 25 countries smarter then we are. I cannot.
I guess that means we are not much better at geography.
Thomas Knox




From: albertson.ch...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 13:39:31 -0800
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ebay warning

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Steve  wrote:

Be cautious when straying off the tourist track over there. The Silk Market in 
Beijing for example. Showing interest in knock-off Rolex's in one stall

I bought a knock-off Rolex.  But not exactly there.   The seller was
careful and kept them in the back.  They had several different grades.
  He started at the top with one that looked OK but I wanted an obvious
fake.

At first China only offered low skill, low wage assembly line type
labor.  But now they graduate more engineers than the US does each
year.   We (in the US) are on the wrong end of an "education gap".
This happened with Japan years ago.

Look at ham radio in China.  Here is it for the most part old men who
remember the days of vacuum tubes and CW.   In China it is a hobby for
the young middle class, mostly trained engineers.


Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] How best to exchange Large files?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I use ZMODEM over telnet to upload wi-fi survey files to Mother.

On 02/21/2012 02:16 PM, ehydra wrote:
I think most users have ADSL, where the problem is the low upload 
bandwidth. If the connection drops, the whole file is lost.


The download is much faster and so there is a good change to save the 
whole file.

If not:
If the web-browser and the file-owning server understand reconect, one 
can retry the download and then the old file merges with the new part 
without further effort.


So I wonder if FTP does it the same way? Any experience?


My problem is that I want to send a big file to another person, but my 
internet upload bandwidth is way to small.


Any suggestions? I run a web-server with PHP and a FTP-server.

As I learned from the thread a torrent-app is not enough. Transfering 
via POP3 looks impossible because seldom the two email-server will 
have both account limitations beyond 100MB.


cheers -
Henry


David J Taylor schrieb:

Hi:

I've used:
https://www.yousendit.com/
with no problems.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke


.. but the limit on that service has changed from 100 MB down to 50 
MB, making it rather less useful to me.


Cheers,
David




--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A......????

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

How does the HP compare to a Thunbderbolt?

On 02/17/2012 02:31 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote:

Sorry for band width to group!
Stupid iPhone! :-)


-Brian, WA1ZMS

On Feb 17, 2012, at 5:15 PM, "Brian, WA1ZMS"  wrote:


Bob-

I have a spare that i need to test and make sure all is OK.

Any interest?
Make me an offer and it's yours after I get time to test is out.


-Brian, WA1ZMS

On Feb 17, 2012, at 4:56 PM, bownes  wrote:


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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Using digital broadcast TV for timing?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Other than LightSquared, an event that made GPS go away would most likely
eliminate most interest in ultra accuracy time keeping.

On 02/08/2012 09:13 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:48 PM, jerryfi  wrote:

Thanks Paul.  You and Bob Camp provided some good updates/info.  It may present 
enough of a challenge/reward for someone to examine further.  I'm with you on 
the available time front - too many other projects/commitments to pursue 
further myself.  I'll be interested if Chris, or someone else, can make some 
headway though.


OK if not DTV what other common signal that you could pick up without
use of exotic equipment (so this entirely eliminates rotating neutron
starts or "pulsars") what else can you get that has decent timing
other then GPS and CDMA.   I'm not giving up on DTV yet.  The video
signal is compressed so it may be basically white noise but I bet it
is wrapped in some transport like packets that are regular.

In practice GPS works well but a question came up here "What could you
use if GPS went away?"I said "I bet there is some signal all
around us that just happens to have precision timing embedded in it.
Maybe DTV maybe it's direct broadcast TV.
--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] Windows app for FE5680 info dump

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Here is the output from my 2nd 5680a
Running Win 7 64 bit COM8 via two headed USB to RS232 cable from Frys

On 01/24/2012 08:08 PM, paul swed wrote:

Newell that explains that. Let me try tomorrow at the command line level.
Thanks

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Scott Newellwrote:


I've been asked for a windows version of the FE5680 info dump app, so here
it is:
http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-**5680a/control/fe5680_info_**win32.exe<http://n5tnl.com/time/fe-5680a/control/fe5680_info_win32.exe>

Please let me know if you have any trouble.  It's a command line program
that's expecting a com port number as the only parameter
("fe5680_info_win32.exe 1" for com 1).  It'll dump the replies to all the
commands we know of in both hex and ascii.

If you try it out, please send me a copy of your results.


thanks!
newell  N5TNL


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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430



Cmd 0x22 0x0D byte reply: [22] [0D] [00] [2F] [44] [02] [1D] [6D] [43] [FD] 
[87] [05] [0A] 
Cmd 0x22 ASCII (.): D..mC...
Cmd 0x22 ASCII ( ): D  mC   

Cmd 0x29 0x09 byte reply: [29] [09] [00] [20] [FF] [00] [00] [00] [FF] 
Cmd 0x29 ASCII (.): 
Cmd 0x29 ASCII ( ): 

Cmd 0x2B 0x0E byte reply: [2B] [0E] [00] [25] [32] [30] [30] [30] [30] [30] 
[30] [30] [00] [02] 
Cmd 0x2B ASCII (.): 2000.
Cmd 0x2B ASCII ( ): 2000 

Cmd 0x2D 0x09 byte reply: [2D] [09] [00] [24] [FF] [FF] [F9] [E2] [1B] 
Cmd 0x2D ASCII (.): 
Cmd 0x2D ASCII ( ): 

Cmd 0x47 0x08 byte reply: [47] [08] [00] [4F] [23] [01] [00] [22] 
Cmd 0x47 ASCII (.): #..
Cmd 0x47 ASCII ( ): #  

Cmd 0x53 0x07 byte reply: [53] [07] [00] [54] [82] [00] [82] 
Cmd 0x53 ASCII (.): ..
Cmd 0x53 ASCII ( ):   

Cmd 0x57 0x56 byte reply: [57] [56] [00] [01] [FF] [36] [00] [39] [00] [3D] 
[00] [41] [00] [45] [00] [49] [00] [4D] [00] [51] [00] [55] [00] [59] [00] [5E] 
[00] [61] [00] [64] [00] [68] [00] [6C] [00] [70] [00] [74] [00] [78] [00] [7B] 
[00] [7F] [00] [83] [00] [87] [00] [8A] [00] [8E] [00] [92] [00] [96] [00] [99] 
[00] [9D] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] 
[00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [B7] 
Cmd 0x57 ASCII (.): 
.6.9.=.A.E.I.M.Q.U.Y.^.a.d.h.l.p.t.x.{...
Cmd 0x57 ASCII ( ):  6 9 = A E I M Q U Y ^ a d h l p t x {  
 

Cmd 0x59 0x56 byte reply: [59] [56] [00] [0F] [FF] [74] [01] [59] [01] [1D] 
[01] [10] [01] [F8] [00] [D5] [00] [9F] [00] [96] [00] [74] [00] [40] [00] [1A] 
[00] [10] [00] [05] [00] [00] [00] [D4] [FF] [B3] [FF] [91] [FF] [60] [FF] [3B] 
[FF] [03] [FF] [F4] [FE] [D5] [FE] [B4] [FE] [94] [FE] [7B] [FE] [70] [FE] [3F] 
[FE] [27] [FE] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] 
[00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [00] [7C] 
Cmd 0x59 ASCII (.): 
.t.Y.t.@...`.;...{.p.?.'.
Cmd 0x59 ASCII ( ):  t Y t @   ` ;   { p ? '
 

Cmd 0x5A 0x0D byte reply: [5A] [0D] [00] [57] [02] [00] [B0] [08] [24] [08] 
[FC] [04] [6E] 
Cmd 0x5A ASCII (.): $...
Cmd 0x5A ASCII ( ): $   

Cmd 0x61 0x0B byte reply: [61] [0B] [00] [6A] [37] [30] [35] [38] [35] [00] 
[3F] 
Cmd 0x61 ASCII (.): 70585.
Cmd 0x61 ASCII ( ): 70585 

Cmd 0x65 (CS bad!) 0x07 byte reply: [65] [07] [00] [62] [FF] [1C] [1C] 
Cmd 0x65 ASCII (.): ..
Cmd 0x65 ASCII ( ):   

Cmd 0x67 0x08 byte reply: [67] [08] [00] [6F] [01] [AF] [F3] [5D] 
Cmd 0x67 ASCII (.): ...
Cmd 0x67 ASCII ( ):

Cmd 0xF0 0x0E byte reply: [F0] [0E] [00] [FE] [33] [2E] [34] [00] [00] [00] 
[00] [00] [00] [29] 
Cmd 0xF0 ASCII (.): 3.4..
Cmd 0xF0 ASCII ( ): 3.4  
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[time-nuts] Results with second FE5680A

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

This is a phase plot of my number two 5680a vs Thunderbolt.
The X axis is in seconds, Y is phase difference measured by
a Racal-Dana 1992 counter with GPIB interface.  The big spikes
are markers representing human interaction, typically changing
the frequency offset command.

I calculate the daily drift to be about 5e-11 which compares to
the spec of 2e-11 per day.

The other 5680a, the one that pulls 340 ma from the 5 volts,
is far better than this.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Reading 1992 counter???

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Latest in ftp.omen.com

On 01/20/2012 08:33 AM, cfo wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:16:39 -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:


I've written a few quickies to pull data from my 1992. Most run for as
long as I care to run them.  The one I'm attaching invariably flummoxes
the counter after several hours. It does a frequency measurement, then a
phase measurement, stores it, and repeats about once per second,
dominated by the time taken to measure the frequency.

It runs under Linux with the Linux GPIB package.  I am using 32 bit
Fedora 16.

Chuck is there any chance you could tgz up the "lot" , and put it on your
webpage ?

I snipped the makefile&  the rdxp.c from this post , but is getting
errors making rdxp

make rdxp
cc rdxp.c -O -lgpib  -o rdxp
rdxp.c: In function ‘onintrterm’:
rdxp.c:61: error: ‘termcount’ undeclared (first use in this function)
rdxp.c:61: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
rdxp.c:61: error: for each function it appears in.)
rdxp.c: In function ‘main’:
rdxp.c:111: error: ‘discard’ undeclared (first use in this function)
rdxp.c:111: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘possible’
make: *** [rdxp] Error 1

I just bought a Racal 1991 on the auctionsite , and is preparing for the
arrival.

I have a National PCI GPIB card , but is considering the ether-gpib
bridge ... Cant remember the name ...
As i then can run measurements of my 24/7 (on) email-server

I'm Ubuntu based.


TIA
CFO



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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] Reading 1992 counter???

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I've written a few quickies to pull data from my 1992.
Most run for as long as I care to run them.  The one I'm attaching
invariably flummoxes the counter after several hours.
It does a frequency measurement, then a phase measurement,
stores it, and repeats about once per second, dominated by the
time taken to measure the frequency.

It runs under Linux with the Linux GPIB package.  I am using
32 bit Fedora 16.

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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


CFLAGS = -O -lgpib 

PROGS = rd10 rd1 rd2 rd5 rd6 rd rdp rdphase  rdx rdxp ibtest td td4 tdk tp

all:$(PROGS)

tgz:clean
cd ..; tar cvfz /tmp/gpibwa7kgx.tgz rd

rd10:rd10.c
cc rd10.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd10
rd1:rd1.c
cc rd1.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd1
rd2:rd2.c
cc rd2.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd2
rd5:rd5.c
cc rd5.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd5
rd6:rd6.c
cc rd6.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd6
rd:rd.c
cc rd.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rd
rdx:rdx.c
cc rdx.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rdx
rdphase:rdphase.c
cc rdphase.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rdphase
rdp:rdxp.c
cc rdxp.c $(CFLAGS) -DPHASEONLY  -o rdp
rdxp:rdxp.c
cc rdxp.c $(CFLAGS)  -o rdxp
ibtest:ibtest.c
cc ibtest.c $(CFLAGS)  -o ibtest
td:td.c iplot.c
cc td.c iplot.c  $(CFLAGS)  -lgpib -o td
td4:td4.c iplot.c
cc td4.c iplot.c $(CFLAGS)  -o td4
tdk:tdk.c
cc tdk.c $(CFLAGS)  -o tdk
tp:tp.c
cc tp.c $(CFLAGS)  -lgpib -o tp

install:$(PROGS)
cp -fp $(PROGS) ~/bin
clean:
rm -f $(PROGS) a.out foo
cpq:
cpq 0R* *.h *.c

/***
 rdxp.c
		Read phase and freq from Racal-Dana 1992
 ---
		usage: rdxp [x]
			second arg selects 10 second gate time (default 1)
		usage: rdp

 ***/

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include "gpib/ib.h"

#define LL 132
char line[LL];
long double  phase, freq;
long double  phase2 = -10;
long double  phase3 = 410;
struct timeval tv;
long long tt, ott, tt0;
FILE *fout;
struct timespec ts, tr;

int ud, minor=0, pad = 15;
const int sad = 0;
const int send_eoi = 1;
const int eos_mode = 0;
int timeout = T10s;
int res10 = 0;
long rcount = -1;
long count = 0;
int termflag = 0;	// recrived term signal, make a spike
int termcount = 0;

void
onintr(n)
{
#ifdef PHASEONLY
	fprintf(stderr, "\n\nRdp completed %ld loops, %d kills %ld resets.\n", count, termcount, rcount);
#else
	fprintf(stderr, "\n\nRdxp completed %ld loops, %ld resets.\n", count, rcount);
#endif
	exit (-1);
}

void
onintrterm(n)
{
	termflag = 1;
	signal(SIGTERM, onintrterm);
	++termcount;
	return;
}

main(argc, argv)
char *argv[];
{
	int  status;   long long l;

	signal(SIGINT, onintr);
	signal(SIGQUIT, onintr);
	signal(SIGTERM, onintrterm);

	res10 = (argc > 1);
	if (res10)
		timeout = T30s;
	ts.tv_nsec = 10e7;

#ifdef PHASEONLY
	fout = fopen("/o/tmp/rdp", "w");
#else
	fout = fopen("/o/tmp/rdxp", "w");
#endif
	if (fout  == NULL) {
		fprintf(stderr, "Can't open output file.\n");
		return (-1);
	}

	fprintf(stderr, "trying to open device %i on /dev/gpib%i ... ", pad, minor);
	ud = ibdev(minor, pad, sad, timeout, send_eoi, eos_mode);
	if(ud < 0)
	{
		fprintf(stderr, "ibdev error\n");
		return (-1);
	}
	fprintf(stderr, "ud = %d\n", ud);

oops:
	++rcount;
	ibrsc(ud, 1);
	ibsic(ud);
	ibclr(ud);
	ibeos(ud, REOS | 012);

#ifndef PHASEONLY
	if (res10) {
		ibwrt(ud, "SRS10\n", 6);		// set highest res
		timeout = T30s;
	} else
		ibwrt(ud, "SRS9\n", 5);		// set high res

	ibwrt(ud, "T1\n", 3);	// One-shot mode
	status = ibrd( ud, line, LL );		// discard possible spurious reading
#else
	ibwrt(ud, "PH\n", 3);	// measure phase
#endif
	while (1) {
		
#ifndef PHASEONLY
		ibwrt(ud, "PH\n", 3);	// measure phase
		nanosleep(&ts,  &tr);
		ibwrt(ud, "T2\n", 3);	// Take one reading
#endif
		status = ibrd( ud, line, LL );
		if( status & ERR )
		{
			fprintf(stderr, "PH Timeout %ld resets\n", rcount);
			goto oops;
		}
		sscanf (line+2, "%Le", &phase);
	
		
		gettimeofday(&tv, NULL); tt = tv.tv_sec;
		if (tt0 == 0)
			tt0 = tt;
#ifndef PHASEONLY
		ibwrt(ud, "FA\n", 3);	// Measure freq input A
		ibtmo(ud, timeout);
		ibwrt(ud, "T2\n", 3);	// Take one reading
		nanosleep(&ts,  &tr);
		status = ibrd( ud, line, LL );
		if( status & ERR )
		{
			fprintf(stderr, "FA Timeout %ld resets\n", rcount);
			goto oops;
		}
		sscanf (line+2, "%

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A won't lock

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

My first 5680a took at least a half hour to lock the first time.
After that it locked within a few minutes.  This is the one that draws 
340 ma from 5 volts

but is extremely stable.

On 01/17/2012 08:31 PM, Scott Newell wrote:
Just got my 3 in from nichegeek.  Paid Thursday, shipped Friday, 
arrived this evening.  Wow.  (Actually arrived too quickly--I don't 
have my t-bolt running, so I can't easily do an accurate frequency 
check.)


Two power up and lock in <3 minutes.  One powers up, gets toasty, and 
gives 10MHz, but no lock and no PPS.


The tuning config on all three read back as 0.  I've set the problem 
child to near +/- FS and about +/- 25% of tuning range: still no lock.


Any suggestions on what I should look for or try?  I'm not quite ready 
to throw in the towel and contact the seller.




--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A adjustment screw?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The circuit board near the 9 pin connector has a number of pads
which appear to be option jumper sites.   If so it would be nice to
know what they do just think of the possibilities..

On 01/18/2012 04:44 AM, Bill Riches wrote:

it does nothing - not connected - you might look at the 5680 archives - this
and a bunch of other info is listed ad nauseum about the 5680.

73,

Bill, WA2DVU
Cape May, NJ

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Benward
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:01 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] FE-5680A adjustment screw?

Hi all,
Anyone know what the little adjustment hole is on the side of the FE-5680A?
Is this a frequency adjustment?  I tried adjusting it but nothing happened.
Was the adjustment range too small to see a change on a counter?




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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A what is the size of the Torx??

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I have a tool with a number of Allen wrenches.  The smallest
of the lot fits the screws that hold the oscillator to the board.

I found it easiest to insert the tool from the other side of the
board rather than unscrewing the usual way.  This way I
was able to insert the Allen wrench well into the screw yet
avoid interference with the oscillator box.

On 01/17/2012 03:24 PM, Paul F. Sehorne wrote:

Nope.  Looked at them with a jeweler's loupe.  They are Torx.

On 1/17/2012 5:13 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:

Most likely they are 1/16" hex.


On 01/17/12, Chris Albertson  wrote:

No need to buy a tool. They drill out really easy but you can also
simply punch them out. There are no nuts on the back. The screws
bite directly into the fiberglass PCB. Mine were T-16 but many
people report they are hex not torx. Maybe it depends on what kind
of screw they had around the day it was built.
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Paul F. 
Sehorne<[1]p...@sehorne.org>

wrote:
>
>  I received my two FE-5680s today.  The first thing I want to do is
inspect
>  the insides.  The smallest Torx I have is a too-big T-8.  What size
is
>  needed?  I'll need to do an internet search for the correct size.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Paul
>
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References

1. mailto:p...@sehorne.org
2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
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4. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The 15 volts comes from an old Toshiba laptop ps.
The 5 volts is from another switcher, similar to the  famous Meanwell.

http://www.omen.com/ham/gpsd.html

The 15 volts seems fairly clean on my 2712.
My Racal-Dana 1992 does emit a signal on 10 MHz.


On 01/12/2012 03:40 AM, Javier Herrero wrote:

Hello,

What kind of power supply are you using for it? If a switching one, 
perhaps this is the origin.


Regards,

Javier, EA1CRB

El 12/01/2012 11:39, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R escribió:

I received my Ebay Tek 2712 spectrum analyzer Monday and I have been
throwing software to read its data via GPIB.  Here is a spectrum I got
connecting the Rb 10 MHz to the 2712.  Nice little spurs.  I don't see
anything to account for these anywhere else.

The 2712 is a big step up from Ham radio fish finders and I'm
still learning things about the 2712.  It would be nice to have
original easy to read printed manuals and/or a high quality
PDF.  The black and white (no greyscale) PDFs on the internet
are hard on the eyes and not searchable.



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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Both of my units came with a stored preset of 0.

Giving the second unit an offset of 0 results in an
84 second period for a 360 degree phase procession
relative to a Thunderbolt's 10 MHz output.  Call it
100 instead of 84 and we get 1e-9.  Measure the
distance to the Moon within a foot or two.

On 01/12/2012 03:57 PM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:

Nigel
I did not program it, it had its original setting and it is 9.944
which is -5.6 E-11, within 10 MHz which is within spec. Once I have some
aging I  will look at Voltage sensetivity.
Bert Kehren


In a message dated 1/12/2012 6:22:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gandal...@aol.com writes:

Hi  Bert

Could you clarify something for me please, before you started your  tests
did you program the unit to be close to 10MHz or did you leave  it as
received,  and if so what is the actual frequency and is it  stable?

regards

Nigel
GM8PZR


In a message dated  12/01/2012 21:50:28 GMT Standard Time, ewkeh...@aol.com

writes:

I hear  all these ideas from paper tigers. How about  building something
and

report on it. I can do a Shera for $ 40  and add a $ 20 GPS.  And it
works.
I did fail to mention that I  also have retrace data. Over the test  period
I
had at least 10  power outages from seconds to a couple of hours.  The Rb
goes   right back to 1 E-12. It would be nice if some one  independent does

a
test on  aging, maybe I was lucky and got a  particularly  good unit.
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10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I received my Ebay Tek 2712 spectrum analyzer Monday and I have been
throwing software to read its data via GPIB.  Here is a spectrum I got
connecting the Rb 10 MHz to the 2712.  Nice little spurs.  I don't see
anything to account for these anywhere else.

The 2712 is a big step up from Ham radio fish finders and I'm
still learning things about the 2712.  It would be nice to have
original easy to read printed manuals and/or a high quality
PDF.  The black and white (no greyscale) PDFs on the internet
are hard on the eyes and not searchable.

--
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Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

By casually comparing the phase plots of the two FE-5680As
vs. Thunderbolt.  But it may not be finished settling down.

On 01/11/2012 11:14 AM, Hal Murray wrote:


c...@omen.com said:

So far it does not seem as stable as the first one I got.

How are you measuring stability?




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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

My backup FE-5680A arrived from Nichgeek a while ago.
It has a lower serial number than the first one.  I have
not measured its current draw yet, or checked for 1pps.

So far it does not seem as stable as the first one I got.

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A arrived

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The FE-5680A 1pps is not sync'd to UTC.
According to my calculations, it would take several hours
to walk the 1pps to UTC given the 3.8e-5 adjustment
range via the RS232 input.  A thunderbolt, an arduino,
and patience.

On 01/11/2012 09:50 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Bob Camp  wrote:

Hi

A good old logic probe can come in handy from time to time. They certainly
aren't very expensive.

On my FE5680 I was convinced there was no PPS.  My HP5328 counter
could not find a pulse.All I saw was high frequency noise on the
scope.  And the spec listed pin-6 as "N/C".  Then I thought to amplify
and low pass filter and now the PPS shows up on the HP5328 with a
100.0 uS period.

I think the PPS is there but needs a bit a signal conditioning to be
useful.  Fortunately my old Tek 465B scope has a low pass function and
a vertical amplifier output BNC on the rear.  I had to crank the amp
up and attenuate it on the counter.

Has anyone been able to put the PPS fronmthe FE5680 to practical use
yet.  For example sending it to a computer to drive an NTP server?
Detecting it is one thing. reliable use 24x7 is another thing.


Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
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Re: [time-nuts] Power supply for 'Bay FE-5680A?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

As I understand it, the "physics package" needs to get quite hot
to work.

I would expect the physics package to be well insulated and off
by itself, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

On 01/06/2012 10:06 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:

I do not understand why this is even discussed. Running at lower
temperature will extend life and using a fan with temperature control will cost 
 no
more than $ 12 and I challenge any of you how I can get for so little money
more than one order of magnitude improvement. As I reported before I started
out  with heat sink only and quickly realized that I would not be able to
measure  aging because the last 2 digits where all over the place and unless
you have an  environment where your lab is within 0.1C  you are throwing
away the real  advantage of a Rb.
I did enclose the Rb cell and the OCXO on a FEI 5962B, its modularity lends
  it self for such testing, it was not worth the effort and the power saving
was  minimal.
Once my aging tests are completed I will test for 15 V voltage  sensitivity.
Bert Kehren


In a message dated 1/6/2012 11:35:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
n...@verizon.net writes:

A heat sink may not be required, per se, although I  would expect that a
larger thermal mass and/or thermal  regulation via a closed loop fan
controller will help smooth  out/stabilize temperature effects.


On 01/06/12, Chuck  Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R  wrote:

The Tech  Manual does not call for heat sinking (unless I missed
something).
The top has labels over much of the  surface.
The bottom has a plastic sheet between the circuitry  and bottom plate.
It appears the unit was expected to be  rather hot when running.
I have mine mounted on the out side  of the box using standoffs.
On 01/06/2012 07:39 AM, Bob  Smither wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED  MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Chris Albertson wrote:

On  Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM,<[1]time-n...@custodes.info>   wrote:


  l<[2]http://www.freqelec.com/rb_osc_fe5680a.html>  says 32W  peak,

but then

also 15-18v@700mA,  which doesn't make sense.

It  will pull 35W for the first five or so minutes then the  current

drops

rather suddenly to  about 700mA.

I have an  analog amp meter on my power supply and I can see a switch

over

after the unit heats up. They must run an  internal oven heater full

tilt

at  first then go into regulated mode.

Some one else said you can cause the FE5680 to draw more power  in

steady

state mode by adding heat  sinking it. Yes that works. Seems the

FE5680

wants to be at some set temperature and the heat sink means it  takes

more

power to keep at the set  point. I just let the fe5680 rest on a

small

aluminum plate.

Have you measured the case  temperature of your FE5680?

I put  mine on a heat sink and the case temperature stays around 50C.

Without

the heat sink it was around 60C. Does anyone know  what temperature is
recommended? The 50C seems a little  hot, but the unit appears to work

well.

- --
Bob Smither, PhD Circuit  Concepts, Inc.


===
==

Government is not healthy for children and other  living things.
-- Jeff Daiell


===
==

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-4616(fax)

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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [8]c...@omen.com [9]www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW  Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430
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References

1.  mailto:time-n...@custodes.info
2.  http://www.freqelec.com/rb_osc_fe5680a.html
3.  mailto:smit...@c-c-i.com
4.  http://www.C-C-I.Com/
5.  http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
6.  mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
7.  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
8.  mailto:c...@omen.com
9. http://www.omen.com/
10.  mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
11.  https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Power supply for 'Bay FE-5680A?

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

The Tech Manual does not call for heat sinking (unless I missed something).
The top has labels over much of the surface.
The bottom has a plastic sheet between the circuitry and bottom plate.

It appears the unit was expected to be rather hot when running.
I have mine mounted on the out side of the box using standoffs.

On 01/06/2012 07:39 AM, Bob Smither wrote:

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Chris Albertson wrote:

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM,  wrote:


l<http://www.freqelec.com/rb_osc_fe5680a.html>  says 32W peak, but then
also 15-18v@700mA, which doesn't make sense.


It will pull 35W for the first five or so minutes then the current drops
rather suddenly to about 700mA.

I have an analog amp meter on my power supply and I can see a switch over
after the unit heats up.   They must run an internal oven heater full tilt
at first then go into regulated mode.

Some one else said you can cause the FE5680 to draw more power in steady
state mode by adding heat sinking it.  Yes that works.  Seems the FE5680
wants to be at some set temperature and the heat sink means it takes more
power to keep at the set point.   I just let the fe5680 rest on a small
aluminum plate.

Have you measured the case temperature of your FE5680?

I put mine on a heat sink and the case temperature stays around 50C.  Without
the heat sink it was around 60C.  Does anyone know what temperature is
recommended?  The 50C seems a little hot, but the unit appears to work well.

- --
Bob Smither, PhD   Circuit Concepts, Inc.
=
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-- Jeff Daiell
=
smit...@c-c-i.com  http://www.C-C-I.Com  281-331-2744(office)  -4616(fax)
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--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] phase lock

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I have  a Racal-Dana 1992 Nanosecond Universal Counter that includes
a phase measuring function.  I also have a GPIB interface and wrote some
C code to log these readings which can be displayed with gnuplot.

The phase should be measured for a very long time - days perhaps.  The 
ability

to record the phase over that period is useful because the Thunderbolt will
have considerable (compared to the Rb) short term variance.

You could use a scope.  If the X and Y channels can hack 10 MHz you can do a
Lissajous pattern.  Otherwise display one and trigger on the other.

The frequency should be within a fraction of one Hz before worrying 
about the phase.


On 12/23/2011 03:32 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote:


Hello Chuck, I noticed with interest you compared a thunderbolt to a 
RB standard using phase lock.


I wonder how you measured the phase lock?

My thoughts would be to use an Oscilloscope but do you have another 
method?


Many thanks, Mark

*Kind Regards,*

Mark Stephens

**

*Mark C Stephens* | Customer service engineer | Non-Stop Computer Ltd

(+61 2 9011 8186 | (+61 428 256 334 | +ma...@non-stop.com.au 
<mailto:ma...@non-stop.com.au>


Non-Stop Computer PTY LTD

79 Devon St

North Epping

NSW 2121

Australia

Email: serv...@non-stop.com.au



--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX n2469r...@omen.comwww.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

My FE-5680A and Thunderbolt have been well behaved for the
last 16 hours.  The Thunderbolt is using 3.00 FW and had its
feedback settings optimized by Lady Heather.  AMU mask is 7.0.

No adjustments were made to the Rb during this run.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

I was thinking ... starting with a 5680a and a GPS with
accurate 1pps but no 10 MHz ...

Feed both 1pps signals to a 74ls123 to stretch the pulses to something 
longer.
A 74ls74 is strobed by one of the one-shots, its D input being the other 
one-shot.


Connect both one-shots and the 74 to an Arduino's inputs.  An Arduino serial
output connects to the 5680a.

The Arduino watches the one-shots to obtain rough lock, then pays attention
to the 74 output for fine lock.  Between the jitter on the 1pps and the 
very long

time constant(s) used to control the 5680a it just might work.

Attached: Phase plot of two Thunderbolts using same antenna but different
GPSDO parameters.  Plenty of jitter/noise/whatever.

--
Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

IF the 1pps is accurate and stable, one could measure the time between
the GPS's 1pps and the 5680a 1pps and issue appropriate frequency
offset commands.

That's a big assumption or two, a Tbolt might still be cheaper.

There's always WWVB.

On 12/30/2011 11:39 AM, Robert LaJeunesse wrote:

How about USB to an FT232 that talks SPI to a low-cost DAC or digital pot? Would
need a stable reference, though. See http://www.sparkfun.com/news/386 and
http://www.chinwah-engineering.com/USB_SPI_Interface_Software.html for the
methodology. Could also use a parallel DAC via FT232 bit-banging, see
www.dlpdesign.com/images/bit-bang-usb.pdf 




From: Mark Spencer
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Sent: Fri, December 30, 2011 2:13:41 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt? (re simple gpsdo.)

On a related note is anyone aware of PC controlled (Ie. RS232 or maybe GPIB ?)
DAC's that would be suitable for this type of application ? 



I've also contemplated simply using the DAC of a TBolt but it would seem to be
waste of a Tbolt.  I'm thinking along the lines of something that might acquired
used on an auction site.
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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430


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[time-nuts] A Tale of two Thunderbolts

[Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R]

Here's the phase vs time for two Thunderbolts.

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Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com   www.omen.com
Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications
  Omen Technology Inc  "The High Reliability Software"
10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   503-614-0430

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