On 2/24/2014 8:26 AM, Tom Holmes wrote:
Is there anyone on the list who repairs these guys. The one I have is dead
and I would like to get it going again.
Tom, the most common fault with these is the thermal fuse going open
circuit. If that's your problem then fixing it yourself might be
On 5/24/2014 7:22 AM, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
Having used lately ublox 6M for GPSDO work I decided to buy a couple of MAX
7C's on ebay for $ 16.00 181293242043
Super results.
Now listed as: 171339542977
Dan
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On 6/13/2014 12:58 PM, Russ Ramirez wrote:
I just acquired one of these on the cheap but when I received the unit, it
did not come with the top cover. I'm reaching out to see if any of you
would have one from a parts mule, or one you might think would fit. For
example, the top cover of a 8640 is
On 6/28/2014 6:48 PM, Hui Zhang wrote:
Hello all:
Rencently I bought a second-hand HP8568B Spectrum Analyzer, it kind of vintage but works well. Only problem is its time base lost accurate. When I use it measured my HP Z3801A output (locked to GPS), the center frequency read is 9.12MHz,
I'm sure this has been discussed to death before, but does anyone know
of a source of thermal fuses small enough to fit in the -hp- 10811? I
have found plenty of larger ones, none of which will fit and would
rather not just link it out.
Dan
___
On 9/2/2014 12:23 PM, Dan Rae wrote:
I'm sure this has been discussed to death before, but does anyone know
of a source of thermal fuses small enough to fit in the -hp- 10811? I
have found plenty of larger ones, none of which will fit and would
rather not just link it out.
Dan
On 9/3/2014 12:23 PM, John Miles wrote:
Was the oven in a runaway condition? Like Bob, I've never seen a situation
where the thermal fuse has actually done anything useful. It seems like the
inner oven will go into full-blown China Syndrome before the thermal fuse on
the far side of the
Panasonic EYP-1BF115 Thermal Cutoff 115C 1A, part number P10912 from
Digikey is a perfect fit to replace the original -hp- part.
Dan
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On 10/8/2014 9:01 AM, Dave M wrote:
John, I found a couple Mini-Circuits ZAPD-2 splitters on Ebay for
around $22 each, i
I found one at the local swap meet many years ago for $1. I used that
for years when I only had two gps receivers and it worked fine. Opening
up the top cover you will
I'm looking for the A12 18V power supply and A8 secondary 5 MHz OCXO
modules for an attempt to resurrect my Cesium unit before it gets too
heavy for me to wrestle with... Does anyone have a parts unit or junker
that they might be able to supply these from please?
Thanks,
Dan
On 11/19/2014 2:47 PM, paul swed wrote:
Was doing a search for Lucent RFTGm-II-XO looking for alternates to the
$150 solution.
A 10 Mhz mod popped up.
http://telcodata.us/~myself/Lucent-RFTGm-Modification.pdf
Looks simple enough and I have not validated anything.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Paul,
I've just finished fitting new cells into my 5065A battery pack. A bit
of a struggle since it is quite a tight fit to re-use the original
plastic container. For information, the only cells I could find that
just about fit, and even then one has to remove the plastic covering
from them, were
On 12/4/2012 3:51 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
How much backup time does that battery pack give you?
Bob
Bob, it's at least what they claim in the manual for that Option,
something like fifteen minutes from what I remember.
Dan
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Having just adjusted a crystal oscillator at 10.715 MHz, I would hazard
a guess that the most one can easily pull a crystal of nominal frequency
around 10 MHz would be of the order of +/-1 kHz. Certainly not 60 kHz.
dr
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On 2/5/2013 6:00 AM, Marco IK1ODO -2 wrote:
The subject says it all: anyone has the schematic of the Racal 9420 OCXO?
A friend has one that stopped oscillating, and want to give it a try.
Marco, there is a man in Wales who offers these schematics for sale [1]
and also repairs 9087 signal
Since we're offering up faults for the FRK, I'll add one that I've
found: there's a CMOS 4060 oscillator that should go off at 8.128 kHz,
set by an adjust on test R. If this drifts off enough the lock will
never happen. It provides the FM frequency for the synth.
Dan
I am working on 400 - 500 MHz DDS clocks for an amateur radio project
and would like to record over gpib and plot the relative frequency
drifts over time of different versions of the oscillator from a cold
start. I have Racal 1992 and -hp- 5345 counters available, themselves
driven from gps.
On 2/25/2013 8:15 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
John Miles' most excellent TimeLab software should be able to do what
you want: http://www.miles.io/TimeLab/beta.htm
Thanks, John and everyone else who responded. I should have known John
Miles would have the answer :^)
All the best,
Dan
On 2/25/2013 11:02 AM, John Miles wrote:
I'm not sure about the Racal, but the HP 5345A can be placed into talk-only
mode and used to stream readings to TimeLab in Acquire-Acquire from
counter in talk-only mode . JohnA's link is the right one to use.
The advantage to trying it with the HP
Dott. Alfredo Rosati wrote:
Is there a way to assess what remains life of hp 5065a Rubidium lamp ?
I bought a 5065a is arrived in excellent condition almost like new.
The only incorrect parameter was the value 2arm, over 50, after a
tuning of R1 now is around 40.
everything works very
About vulnerabilities of GPS.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8533157.stm
nothing exactly new however.
Dan
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and
Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Has anyone compiled a taxonomy of the apparently numerous variants of
10811 OXOs? (Distinguishing features, rated performance, used in what
instruments, etc.)
Charles, if you have not already seen it there is a manual, I think on
the Time Lord, TvB's site that
Bill Hawkins wrote:
Peter, cheek is not the problem.
The problem is that all of the Rubidium Vapor Frequency Reference
assemblies have darkened with age, unless they've been rebuilt or
replaced.
I'm not so sure about that. There are quite a few of us time nuts that
own 20 plus year old
Robert Atkinson wrote:
Changing the thread slightly, where do the Efratom FRK- L and H fit in the
hierarchy of Rb quality? I guess somewhere between the telco units and the
5065A. Opinions welcomed!
Robert G8RPI.
Yes, but much closer to the Telco units than to the -hp- I'd have
thought...
ashle...@aol.com wrote:
Hi Everyone
After a lot of learning, sweating (yes, girls do sweat), hand wringing, and a LOT of emails and great help , we have two of Mr Miller (G3RUH) GPSDO units up and working fine. Disciplined 10mhz all over the place.
Now what we need is a
paul swed wrote:
Just picked up 2 units at a flea market today.
Would like to fire them up without smoke. :-)
Would appreciate schematics if the are out there.
My search so far is 0
Thanks
Paul, to get these to work, you will need the loop antenna. This has,
in the early versions at
gandal...@aol.com wrote:
3...The series input and base to ground resistors on the RS232 interface
are both 180 ohms, rather than 10K and 3K3 respectively as in Didier's
circuit.
If one wanted to use the RS232 interface to a computer at the same time
as the ko4bb monitor in parallel,
I have a now useless 2100 Loran receiver / comparator here, does anyone
have any use for this? Before I recycle it. (Here is southern California.)
Dan
ac6ao
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I have an insane desire to marry up a T'bolt with an E1938 OCXO which I
have here and can't think of a better use for. Does anyone have a
T'bolt with a duff or dead OCXO? TAPR reject pile maybe?
Best wishes
Dan
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Dan Rae wrote:
I have a now useless 2100 Loran receiver / comparator here, does
anyone have any use for this? Before I recycle it. (Here is southern
California.)
The Austron is on it's way to a good home where it may still work.
dr
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asma...@fc.up.pt wrote:
Hello Dan,
If it is a 2100T I would be glad to adopt that child.
Antonio, as I thought I said before, it is on it's way to a new home.
Dan
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bill...@aol.com wrote:
I own one RACAL-DANA 1992 (Standard- TCXO). I purchased one with the
Option 04E on eBAY.
The 04E chassis is sealed and the internal OCXO overheats due to lack
of cooling air. This causes the counter to stop taking measurements. I had to
add
Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Simple answer - they self calibrate to 1x10^-13 at a one day time period.
Essentially zero long term drift.
Bob
Have I missed something? A self calibrating cheap Rb unit? a self
calibrating 10811? I really must wake up :^)
dr
-Original Message-
From:
My Z3801A is quite happy still plugging along at 35,208 units of life
time...
dr
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On 9/9/2010 7:03 AM, p...@pseng.org.uk wrote:
I'll second the thanks to EADS (and David). I too used too look for
support for older equipment when buying for day job.
Currently struggling with opt55M ie the miltary coding CIL/MATE etc
for a stack of 6 1991's for TI use. Any pointers on using
On 9/14/2010 1:23 AM, John Miles wrote:
As Bruce suggests, you'll want to peek inside to see that you
really do have
a 10811 oscillator. If so, then it sounds like the thermal fuse
(F1, inside
the 10811) might be open.
Just short it out, or if you like, put in an NTE part with a similar temp
I am about to marry a T'bolt with an E1938A and wonder if anyone has
any idea of good starting values for TC, Damping and gain?
Thanks,
Dan
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Mark Sims wrote:
I set up my ThunderBolt data logger to flag temperature spikes. Over a 10
hour run last night it caught five of them (TOW magnitude):
104416 0.097 deg
104898 0.022 deg
115715 0.087 deg
135298 0.098 deg
138564 0.041 deg
My 2100 timing receiver (no suffix) has started to give me problems with
what looks like bounce from the keypad switches, with a lot of numbers
repeating without being asked. Is this a known problem with these
units, and is there a known fix? I don't think the guts of the pad are
accessible
Skip Withrow wrote:
Well, my Austron 2100 seems to have bit the dust.
snip
There are some software diagnostic routines in the box. The RAM test runs
fine, but it appears that I get an error on the EPROM test. The test
generates an E-20 error. The book states that if the EPROM test
Randy wrote:
I was wondering if it is worthwhile or even feasible to compare an LPRO
Rubidium standard against a Z3801. Since their frequencies are probably
going to be extremely close anyway it would seem some special
method/equipment would be required for high precision. Suggestions?
I have been reading with interest John Miles' page about his Tbolt
'upgrade'.
http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/tbolt.htm
I have a newly acquired Tbolt here, and also have lying around an almost
identical 10811-60111 OCXO which I am considering using with it, exactly
as John describes. However
John Miles wrote:
I've upgraded the graph on the http://www.ke5fx.com/tbolt.htm page to show
the performance of my Thunderbolt from the TAPR group buy (in orange) next
to the traces for my older unit before and after the 10811 upgrade.
Thanks John, it looks like the Tapr ones have a very
Lux, James P wrote:
Just send Wenzel an email and ask them.
James, they might answer you with your email address, but when I
e-mailed them, several times, to ask the price of one of the OCXOs they
advertised as being in stock, I never got an answer... I suspect they
have anti individual
Dave M wrote:
Randy,
There are a couple distribution amp projects on the RealHamRadio web site
(http://www.realhamradio.com). One has 8 isolated 75-ohm outputs; the other
has 3 non-isolated outputs. Here are the links to each:
http://www.realhamradio.com/10mhz-video-amp.htm
Can someone here in the US kindly do this for me? I have the blank DIP
IC, 20 pin version, but none of my old eprom programmers or PIC
programmers will talk to it, and I didn't really want to buy or build
something just for this one task...
Dan
ac6ao / g3ncr
I have reset my Austron 2100 to the new UTC time, but the TOCs given by
the USNO seem to be off. Should I maybe assume they have not allowed for
the extra second and subtract one second from the posted times?
Can the US Navy have got it wrong? Tbolt got it right...
Dan
Scott Newell wrote:
My low-end Radio Shack 'atomic clock' did not handle the leap second.
It will, just give it time. (Sorry!)
Those normally sync up once a day around 3AM local, so will catch the
daylight savings hour change but not the leap seconds as they happen...
dr
Dan Rae wrote:
I have reset my Austron 2100 to the new UTC time, but the TOCs given by
the USNO seem to be off. Should I maybe assume they have not allowed for
the extra second and subtract one second from the posted times?
Can the US Navy have got it wrong? Tbolt got it right
Tom Van Baak wrote:
I have reset my Austron 2100 to the new UTC time, but the TOCs given by
the USNO seem to be off. Should I maybe assume they have not allowed for
the extra second and subtract one second from the posted times?
Can the US Navy have got it wrong? Tbolt got it right...
Richard W. Solomon wrote:
The GPSDO I want to use has an output rich in harmonics. In some
cases that is good, but Murphy rules and in the application I have
today, it is not good.
I need a 10 MHz Band-Pass Filter, Bandwidth is not critical, something
small with SMA connectors would be
Ed Palmer wrote:
Does anyone
have any hints tips on how to open or repair one of these soldered-can
oscillators?
Ed, I have opened and repaired several sealed oscillators, OCXOs and
TCXOs, as well as crystal filters, with some success. In fact the
Isotemp OCXO in my homebrew GPS
The 10811-60111 that came in my 5370B counter turned out to have an open
circuit Thermistor in it. This is a non-replaceable part in theory.
However, nothing to lose, I have successfully substituted a Digikey Part
number: 317-1371 100 kOhm 1% Thermistor ( from Cantherm, part number:
Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Meanwhile, before posting a correction I was trying to find data on the
oven setpoint temperature tolerance.
The relevant HP Journal with an article on the HP10811A is:
http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1981-03.pdf
One concern is:
How accurate does one'
Pete Lancashire wrote:
Does anyone know if the chart paper is still available ?
I got some many years ago from a local electrical wholesaler in LA, the
name Granger comes to mind. It wasn't cheap then, something like $40 a
box, but it moves slowly :^)
Dan
Further to my earlier note, this paper was used in a number of other
instruments, Truetime for one. The Box of Rolls I got way back was made
by Amprobe. I just found a bit of it I had used as a bookmark, and it
has a Catalog Number printed on the edge: 830AV600.
Dan
I have one of the Chinese E1938 modules I bought about a month ago. I
just tried it out on the bench, and have not had much luck with it. The
5 Volt supply never goes above 50 mA or so, none of the heaters seem to
be powered looking at the hockey puck D-sub connector pins. The four
leds up
I am beginning to think that the PIC in my Chinese Ebay 1938 is dead or
at least injured. Does anyone have the hex files for this one? Blank
PIC16C74As can be had and it may be worth my trying to program a new
one. Nothing else seems to make it work and as the PIC seems to be
asleep, I'm
On 6/3/2013 7:57 AM, Frederick Bray wrote:
So, I gather that most folks are just connecting power to the
appropriate 2 pins on the 110 position connector. I wasn't sure
whether people were wiring directly to the DC converter.
Neither, in my case; I've connected to the fat PC traces that lead
On 6/26/2013 6:53 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
On 27 June 2013 01:45, Doug Calvert dfc-l...@douglasfcalvert.net wrote:
The BBC recently did a three part series titled Precisoin: The Measure
of All Things.
Part 1 is Time and Distance
Part 2 Mass and Moles
Part 3 Is Heat, Light and Electricity
On 6/29/2013 11:35 AM, Graham wrote:
I find my self in need of either splitting a current GPS antenna feed
or putting up yet another antenna, I would prefer splitting the
current feed.
There are a few options one of which is a Mini Circuits ZAPD-2DC+
splitter/combiner whose data sheet
On 7/5/2013 7:34 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote:
My 3325A is having intermittent resets back to the power on default
values.
I ran across a reference to service note 3325-18 that relates to it. (my
SN is in the range the note specifies.)
Does anyone have a copy of the service note or know where I
Does anyone have any details, schematics etc., on these units? I have
two racks with various modules, both set up for multiple 5 MHz and 1 PPS
distribution and would like to modify if possible to 10 MHz.
I have found two versions of the MBF RF output unit, one with series
tuned outputs as
On 9/1/2013 3:34 PM, Dan Rae wrote:
Does anyone have any details, schematics etc., on these units? I have
two racks with various modules, both set up for multiple 5 MHz and 1
PPS distribution and would like to modify if possible to 10 MHz.
Replying to my own question :^)
I have
On 9/19/2013 6:48 AM, quartz55 wrote:
I was playing with SpecLab and my TS-2000 just to see how accurately I could
measure frequencies in the HF region. I notice when I set the rx on cw and
listen to the 750 Hz output of WWV at 15 or 20 MHz with SL, I get like 2 and
sometimes more tracks
On 2/29/2012 1:42 PM, Don Latham wrote:
Dunno if you have seen this on ebay:
260967834514
It's an AD9850 with a 125 MHz crystal mounted up on a .1 spacing board
There are several vendors selling similar things. I bought a couple and
have just pulled the 9850 off one for another project of
And in any case, with four receivers, wouldn't a single aerial and a
splitter be more economical and save on feeder costs?
Mind you, having an eight way splitter as I do does tend to encourage
gps proliferation :^)
Dan
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There's a lot of five Racal survey antennae on eBay, lot 370600485855
which have been round at least once before. I use one of these with a
T'bolt and it performs extremely well; I'm not sure what one would do
with the other four however...
5 Volt operation, TNC connector, c. 30 dB gain.
Ed, the message about leap pending refers to an impending leap second,
in June I think but others may know more... It will happen and the
message will go away. From your LH screen, I would say that your signal
levels are way too low. I don't know why, perhaps low antenna gain, a
badly sited
And as a first step you might want to tell eBay. Contrary to the
general impression they do care :^(
Dan
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I just bought one of these. I was /really/ annoyed when I go to pay to
find out that he has doubled the shipping fee since earlier this morning
from $30 to $60.
I'm not a happy camper...
Dan
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On 5/3/2012 1:08 PM, Steve wrote:
Did the seller double the shipping cost today? I could have sworn it was $30 the
last time I looked at the listing.
Steve
Yes, he did. Unfortunately I didn't check since I still had the page
open from earlier, and didn't find out till I went to Paypal...
All this kerfuffle about that Rubidium Clock kind of misses the point.
This is not some Audiophool thing but a serious piece of gear used for
recording studios. I am not going to get into the pricing of it, but if
you add up the cost of a /new/ Rb unit, distribution amp, power supply
and
On 5/20/2012 3:27 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote:
Is this any good? Price on Ebay is affordable.
It depends what you mean by any good. I bought one and it has what is
to me, an unacceptable level of spurious signals on the 10 MHz output,
some very close to the desired output. Not
Mine came from near Esquipulas Palo Gordo 2,593 meters up on a hilltop.
It works well with Tboltmon but I cannot get LH 3.0 to talk to it.
There must be some trick that I am ignorant of...
Dan
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Mark, I was referring to the MV89A, yes, and I think the original query
was to that as well. I presume mine is faulty and have not managed to
get it open to investigate further, but the output on a spectrum
analyser looks pretty grim, so it's in the big box of things to look at
one day...
Mark, take a look at the plots on the following link:
http://www.rbarrios.com/projects/MV89A/
which I think are from a list member. Mine is similar to the first of
the group of three at the end of the page, not very pretty. What I
assume is correct behavior is the second one.
Dan
On 5/20/2012 7:56 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
An interesting test would be to test a Nortel unit and a Tbolt with the same
oscillator and see if the basic hardware had any difference in performance (I
bet they would be very close)
I had my Nortel running on the bench, in the open, for about 48 Hours,
On 6/12/2012 12:25 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:
Dan wrote:
The attached LH plot shows what happened when it was moved slightly
on the bench two or three times. What surprises me is that the DAC
plot remains offset after everything else has settled.
The movement event(s) appear to
On 6/12/2012 2:48 PM, Mark Sims wrote:
I saw a similar DAC jump when I replaced the SMB pigtail to my board. The
unit went into a brief holdover and came out with a shift in the dac vaue. I
would try wiggling the coax connection (without moving the board) and also
gently tapping around
I have a couple of Vectron 229-5657-1 OCXOs, nominal 80 MHz, that have a
different pin out to that reported by Nigel. These have the SMA output
and only a 24 V supply to pins 2 for + and 6 ground. No EFC.
From the output spectrum, I think these are also doubling from a 40 MHz
crystal.
Dan
All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that
another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest
glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last
time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well
enough with
On 7/1/2012 5:51 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote:
I have used Batteries America tabbed cells to make up packs for several
pieces of equipment and have been well pleased.
Joe
Thanks both, they look a lot better quality than the ones I have...
Dan
___
On 8/23/2012 7:44 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
Em,
that's a lot of money for a Rubidium. I wonder what all the controls
are for? It seems a complex rubidium compared to those that I've seen.
David, if you compare it to the -hp- 5065A which last sold new for
around $35,000 and upwards with options
The problem here, more likely than not, is the restrictive provisions
made by the US authorities over the end use of military surplus. It is
not worth upsetting the men in black, believe me. A lot of surplus gear
cannot legally be sold to a non US citizen, even with a US address.
dr
J. L. Trantham wrote:
If this means that the rotation can be 'user selected' as you assemble the
connector, I am home free. I have not tried to disassemble the connector
yet but will when I get back from work today.
I bought one of these recently from Digikey for a 5065A (and for nearer
to
ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
The only component
I have trouble buying is the 74 AC 112. Newark has them, but you have to
buy thousands. Material cost based on part searches is below $ 200.00.
Digikey has them in stock for 68 cents US.
dr
___
Does anyone know if support for this is still available to those who
bought it through TAPR? TAPR refer inquiries to CNS who do not answer
my emails.
It's not a big problem, simply that I upgraded to the latest version
(2.7.8) only to find that I didn't have the password, and could not
Brian Kirby wrote:
Anybody know where I can find a PDF of the HP 5065A rubidium frequency
standard ?
Brian, assuming you mean the manual, Artek Media have one for sale, but
it is for the older versions. I have never been able to find one for
the later versions that use the 10811 OCXO.
Dan
Corby Dawson wrote:
Hi,
I'm curious what year was the last year that HP offered the 5065A for
sale and what the list price was for that year.
It is in the 1993,94,95, or 96 catalog.
Can any one who has one of these years catalogs check and see?
OK Corby, it is NOT in the 1993 or later
Keep an eye open at swap meets etc., or even eBay, for something like an
MCL ZAPD-2,
http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZAPD-2+.pdf
which is a 1 to 2 GHz splitter. It has DC continuity from 1 and 2 to
the common. I put a 100 pF blocking cap in one of the ports, the other
feeds DC to the
gandal...@aol.com wrote:
Following recent discussions about the merits, or otherwise, of the Racal
1991/92 counters, is anybody familiar with the 225MHz two channel 2201
which was marketed as being the 1991 replacement?
With an optional 1.3GHz third channel fitted it was also offered as the
Brian Kirby wrote:
I purchased a original HP 5065A manual and scanned it. The pictures,
oscilloscope pictures and some of the schematics were greyscaled to
bring out the details.
Its available at http://www.kennethkuhn.com/hpmuseum/scans/ Its in
three parts, each part being around 10 mb.
Funnily enough none of the Update changes that I have found specifically
refer to my Serial Prefix, 2432, but I think I'm covered anyway :^)
Thanks again for the effort Brian,
Dan
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ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
As part of the Dual Mixer project I am looking for a source of reasonably
priced 80 MHz Xtal's in HC 49 holder. International Crystal wants $12 in
fifty Qty. In my opinion to high. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Bert
Kehren
How about XC1567CT-ND from
Mark Spencer wrote:
Yep... There is some room for experimenation. As an example looking at some
of the results reported from the ARRL Frequency measuring test, it seems that
some of the participants are able to determine the frequencies of HF signals
progated via sky waves with an accuracy
There has to be a better way to get a prologix. An hour to get to the
page to order it and now I cannot proceed to the check out section at
all. Ridiculous!
There is indeed no such thing as a free lunch or a cheap GPIB adapter :^)
Dan
___
F1ETB wrote:
Good Advertisement for a company in Electronics...
Happy New Year to everyone,
Bernard
I don't know Bernard. Having just wasted an hour plus of my life on it
I don't think I will return there again.
Dan
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I just found out that Google Earth now gives a seemingly quite accurate
position at the mouse pointer which I don't remember seeing before.
This would seem like a good way to start for a T-bolt survey for example.
Dan
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Bob Camp wrote:
Hi
Has anybody torn into one to see how easy/hard that would be? Sometimes HP's
construction techniques are not very hacker friendly..
Bob, I had to do that because my 8 way version came from the swap meet
fried ( it was only $5). The circuitry inside is very obvious
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