[time-nuts] Airraft Ping Timing
This is how ELT locating satellites work (when not relaying the newer GPS data bursts). Several on another list I watch suggested this pretty early on and I guess INMARSAT got the message. I'd be curious to know if AFRCC pointed INMARSAT in that direction. Really shows the value of precise and stable time references! Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 16:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: J. Forsterj...@quikus.com To:time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Airraft Ping Timing Message-ID: 13855.12.226.214.5.1395702374.squir...@popaccts.quikus.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 According to a report on FOX, INMARSAT was able to determine the Malasia Air followed the southern traectory from the Dopplar of the pings. They verified their model by tracking other planes. -John = ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident
So far as I know the government doesn't insure them. Three Mile Island was a huge financial loss for the company that owned it, not just the billion dollars for the plant but the loss of revenue and the cleanup. So there is a tremendous financial incentive to not have a large failure. That said, if you live anywhere near such a plant you personally are assuming significant financial liability if there is a failure resulting in contamination. Check your homeowners policy and you will see it excludes nuclear accidents and contamination. So if your home is deemed contaminated, you will be prevented from going there and your insurance won't pay but your bank will still insist on the mortgage payments. So perhaps it is more accurate to say that the government has arranged to have the public insure for some of the losses. For lesser failures there is definitely a cost saving attitude in many corporations where the value of life is pretty small. There is plenty of complaint about workplace safety regulations and pollution regulations but they all got their foothold because of some pretty nasty accidents in the past. With this particular accident I don't know the details of how insurance was structured (if they didn't self-insure) so I can't say who had to pay for the loss of their facility but no matter what NDK suffered a significant loss. And if they did have insurance, the new contracts (or renewals) will have all sorts of clauses about inspections and following recommendations. As for the person killed, they should be prepared for a huge payout, if they haven't already. Interesting though about what happened. The coating was supposed to prevent iron contamination in the product but it may not have been fully effective in doing that. Perhaps other coatings might yield a better product? On 11/26/2013 3:35 AM, Tom Knox wrote: This quartz crystal accident is a canary in the coal mine that demonstrates how poor safety and regulations often work in the real world. What I feel is a bigger concern is the similar risks we have with our aging Nuclear reactors. Many are over twenty-five years past their intended life. The problem is today they are paid for, and the government insures them, so they are very profitable. The question is do any of the safety officials and inspectors really have the authority to close them when they become inherently unsafe? I don't think so. I think they will run until one catastrophically fails. I think government oversight is far to often an illusion. Thomas Knox Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:49 -0500 From: n...@verizon.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident I oncecancelled my purchase of a home when I found a sign nearby indicating an underground high pressure gas transmission line. These days they're probably removing the signs. Let's hope the government doesn't decide that precise timekeeping is of strategic value and not permitted amongst ordinary people. On 11/25/2013 11:49 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote: If you really want to lose sleep, think about those old rusty 24 inch gas mains running under your neighborhood like in San Bruno California. The warning signs were present there as well. Now thanks to Homeland Security you can't find accurate gas transmission maps on-line unless you are cleared. So if you are buying a house in a particular neighborhood, do some walking around looking for signs of buried facilities. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident
It was as if a seed crystal was placed in an environment conducive to that crystal growing. In this case there has been a good deal of contamination particles embedded in the growth. On 11/26/2013 9:47 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote: On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Bob Stewart b...@evoria.net wrote: This discussion is all very nice, but what possible relationship does it have to time-nuts? Quartz crystals. Let's just say that it morphed from a discussion into a meta-discussion. :-) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident
I oncecancelled my purchase of a home when I found a sign nearby indicating an underground high pressure gas transmission line. These days they're probably removing the signs. Let's hope the government doesn't decide that precise timekeeping is of strategic value and not permitted amongst ordinary people. On 11/25/2013 11:49 PM, Joe Leikhim wrote: If you really want to lose sleep, think about those old rusty 24 inch gas mains running under your neighborhood like in San Bruno California. The warning signs were present there as well. Now thanks to Homeland Security you can't find accurate gas transmission maps on-line unless you are cleared. So if you are buying a house in a particular neighborhood, do some walking around looking for signs of buried facilities. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident
Maybe the penalty for not following engineering guidelines resulting in injury or death is to require the offending company to relocate their plants to more remote locations. On 11/24/2013 8:40 PM, Sanjeev Gupta wrote: On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: I am a chemical engineer and am quite frankly appalled that this kind of high pressure process would be done in such proximity to innocents. It was pure luck, or chance, that the NDK office building did not have injuries. Would the staff not count as innocents, exposed to danger? This was classified as light industrial, but even if it was a not, where should we put nuclear power plants, waste recycling facility, railway tracks that carry coal, roads that carry 1 tonne metal slugs, etc? Locating such facilities in the wilderness means no access to facilities, increases costs to the plant and its workers, and offends the Sierra Club. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Man killed in quartz crystal accident
Nevertheless, 29,000 PSI at 700 F is pretty serious so at the very least they should have exercised due diligence and paid attention to the recommendations of the subject matter experts. They didn't and it bit them pretty seriously. On 11/24/2013 10:45 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi They’ve been doing it for over 50 years. The early vessels were surplus from the Navy. They no longer needed as many of them to mount in turrets on battleships and heavy cursers … Bob On Nov 24, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: I have operated nuclear plants... I would rather sleep 40 feet from a nuclear plant rather than 1000 feet from a 30,000 pound pressure vessel. The pressure vessel has a much higher likelihood of releasing tremendous potential energy. I am not talking about wilderness... but less than 1000 feet from a truckstop and freeway.. really. Huge pressure vessels? Bill On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Well, let’s see, nearest operational facility is about 6 miles away down in the middle of town over by the High School. It’s been there since the 1950’s. There used to be a few more around here, since shut down. Bob On Nov 24, 2013, at 8:10 PM, Bill Dailey docdai...@gmail.com wrote: I am a chemical engineer and am quite frankly appalled that this kind of high pressure process would be done in such proximity to innocents. On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi NDK has multiple plants growing quartz around the world. They also have a number of competitors in that business. There are better places than NDK to buy high end bars. Bob On Nov 24, 2013, at 7:00 PM, Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net wrote: This is not as far from time-nutty things as it might appear. NDK makes precision crystal oscillators from those crystals. One of them is an OCXO less than an inch (20 mm) square and half that high with stability of 3x10E-9 over the range of -40 to 85 C. Annual drift is typically 50x10E-9. The data sheet is at: http://www.ndk.com/en/news/2013/1190702_1616.pdf The CSB released an impressive video of the incident last month. It is in the final report at: http://www.csb.gov/ndk-crystal-inc-explosion-with-offsite-fatality-/ The financial forecast for NDK shows 50 to 60% drop in profits for the same sales in 2013. If that was also true in 2009, management was motivated to maximize production with what they had. The original consultant strongly recommended inspections for stress corrosion cracking, but strong recommendations do not have financial penalties. It has become obvious that money is the only thing that matters at the management level these days. Oh, and don't bother trying to Google for pure quartz crystals to find out whether the cost went up in 2010 after one of the two manufacturers in the US was shut down. The people whose magical thinking extends to crystals want purity, so all crystals are pure. Help prevent incomplete knowledge. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Robert Atkinson Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 1:43 AM The US Chemical Safety Board have released their report into the 2009 accident at NDK's synthetic crystal growing facility in Belvidere IL http://www.csb.gov/assets/1/19/CSB_CaseStudy_NDK_1107_500PM.pdf It also describes the process. Basically a 50ft autoclave failed, killing a member of the public at a rest stop 650ft away. Looks like management decisions, probably based on cost, overriding engineering advice even following an earlier minor incident. The letters from a consulting engineer in the annex make interesting reading. It illustrates the importance of those professional engineers amongst us notifying and recording any safety issues we discover. The facility is still shut down and the insurance company won't settle as NDK were told of possible issues. Robert G8RPI. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Doc Bill Dailey KXØO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] national nc2001 atomic clock on eBay
The description made it sound much worse than it was though. I've seen brassboards of ultimately highly successful products which were far worse than that. On 11/18/2013 4:39 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 18 November 2013 02:41, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: I have paid a lot of money over the years for “stuff”. I’m not in any way saying that buying “stuff” is a bad idea. If you could make it work, that’s certainly neat stuff. My only issue here is - what’s this going to do for somebody? The only sort of people I can see might be interested are historians, or anyone having some emotional attachment to it (e.g. they designed it). I find it hard to believe anyone in their right mind would buy it with the intension of restoring it so they have a workable frequency source. There are some interesting auctions on eBay. This was one of my all time favouries, although for some reasons I have put the pages of the PDF file in revese order http://www.g8wrb.org/useful-stuff/pdf/bad-amplifier.pdf Anyone know a quick way of reversing the order of the pages in a document? Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mains frequency
The power supply contribution is interesting. This might have been a useful tool when a year ago I was playing with some very large inverters on a microgrid. I had one inverter as master (in UF mode) and two others as grid-connected slaves in PQ mode. The first slave would come online just fine yet when the second was synched the entire microgrid would go unstable. It was noise at the zero crossings but not enough to see on a scope. With all the distributed generation coming online I would be wary of relying on those zero crossings. Peter On 11/18/2013 5:15 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Magnus, I'm going to push back a bit on your mains sampling claim. Mostly, I'd like to see the results of the professional I-Q demodulated gear that you mentioned. Can you post raw data, or a sample plot? I agree that looking at power line voltage with 16- or 24-bits at 1 Msps is going to reveal interesting amplitude and phase noise information. But see how well a $1 PIC can do. Attached is a plot made using TimeLab + picPET just now. The picPET is fast enough to capture the zero-crossing of every 60 Hz cycle with 400 ns resolution; the TimeLab plots have tau0 of 16.67 ms. -- The blue trace was simply plugging a 9 VAC wall-wart into the picPET though a 10k resistor. -- The pink trace was adding a 10 nF cap across the input. -- The green trace was unplugging my laptop switching power supply from the same outlet! -- The red trace is replacing the mains wall-wart with a hp 33120A set to 9VAC at 60 Hz, a tentative noise floor measurement of the picPET when used this way. My conclusions are that at least here in the US, or at least at my house, the short-term stability of mains hits about 5e-6, at about tau 0.2 seconds. The attached short-term plot is also not-inconsistent with the long-term plot at http://leapsecond.com/pages/mains/ My other conclusion is that the picPET (a simple PIC-based time-stamping counter) is doing a pretty good job measuring this. Note, no software or data filtering was used. This is just raw serial/USB data going into TimeLab. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Rick, Can you point us to a method and schematic of a better way to make such a front end for a counter? Peter On 11/9/2013 6:26 AM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: Hi Rick Thanks for the clarification. I'd thought at first you were suggesting these replacements were somehow at fault in comparison with the original design, which was the bit I couldn't understand since they seemed to be virtually identical, rather than commenting on the original design itself. I'd quoted the sensitivity mainly because that seemed to be just about the only thing left to measure other than to say, I plugged it in and it worked ok:-), but undertand the limitations better now I still feel comfortable recommending these as a great value substitute for the HP original. Regards Nigel GM8PZR - Dynamic dividers oscillate when not driven. Static dividers are like ordinary flip flops used for logic and do not oscillate when the clock signal is removed. The MB510 is probably nothing great, even if it was used by HP in some counters. I personally was to blame for designing the MB506 into the 5334B counter. I was trying to reduce factory cost. I knew perfectly well it didn't work all that well. It was at least no worse that the divider used in the 5334A, which was made by HP in Santa Clara and cost $100. The dividers that were made by HP in Santa Rosa were much better because they were static. The 5386 used these. They were also not cheap. Rick Karlquist N6RK HP 5334B Project Manager ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Wouldn't an attenuator solve that? On 11/8/2013 7:03 PM, Richard Karlquist wrote: On 2013-11-08 15:49, gandal...@aol.com wrote: At 1000 MHz, the highest frequency I can generate right now, I've measured the channel 3 input sensitivity as -50dBm with a sinusoidal signal. Regards Nigel GM8PZR This high sensitivity is probably a bad thing, not a good thing. It is indicative of a dynamic divider. For a frequency counter prescaler, you want a static divider, such as the HP5386 used. Dynamic dividers make errors if the signal being measured has a broadband noise floor or sufficiently high spurs at any frequency. Rick Karlquist N6RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 3GHZ Extender for HP 53131A and 53132A
Maybe he means fixed vs. automatic gain (or threshold)? Perhaps a worry about picking up higher frequency noise on a lower frequency but larger signal you are looking to measure? Peter On 11/8/2013 8:38 PM, gandal...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 09/11/2013 01:30:14 GMT Standard Time, hmur...@megapathdsl.net writes: rich...@karlquist.com said: This high sensitivity is probably a bad thing, not a good thing. It is indicative of a dynamic divider. For a frequency counter prescaler, you want a static divider, such as the HP5386 used. Dynamic dividers make errors if the signal being measured has a broadband noise floor or sufficiently high spurs at any frequency. What do static and dynamic mean in that context? Is it the same as DRAM vs SRAM? If so, I don't see any obvious way that translates into one works and the other doesn't. I wondered that. cc.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~jrilee/course/COMMIC08/CommIC_07.pdf The MB510 looks to be a series of flip-flops so presumably would be classified as a static divider? Regards Nigel GM8PZR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 3-D GPS antenna?
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/519811/a-cure-for-urban-gps-a-3-d-antenna/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP5061B Beam Tubes
Link works for me but you must copy the ENTIRE link for it to work. On 9/23/2013 7:32 AM, Bob Camp wrote: http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/shipp ing_instructions.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spectrum Analyzer Suggestions
It may be heavy but is a VERY nice analyzer. I have a Tek 495P which is also a very nice analyzer, goes to 1.8 GHz, is smaller and somewhat lighter (portable), and should be findable in nice condition for under $1k. On 7/13/2013 11:09 PM, Perry Sandeen wrote: List, I just purchased a HP 3585 spec analyzer on E bay for a reasonable price. I wanted this instead of the 181 series as the range was more to what I’d be using and it was of a newer vintage. The 3585a goes from 10 Hz to 40 MHz which is a most useful range for my purposes. so far, so good. The problem is I didn’t know the beast weighed a svelte 88 pounds! Double Hernia time! What I’d appreciate advice for a used spec analyzer in the $1,000 range that is at least much lighter. A smaller size would also be a benefit. I probably would never use it above 100 MHz. A slightly smaller screen would be OK. Suggestions appreciated. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5989 - Release Date: 07/13/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Yes but we like coal because if we ignore the dangers and pollution it's co cheeap! I used to play with the old CRT color TVs and would boost the HV up enough to be able to fog film with the X-rays (not well enough to make images though). I do agree with what you say though. On 7/9/2013 7:49 AM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. Rant off, Robert G8RPI. From: Volker Esper ail...@t-online.de To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 11:33 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken? Hi, Toxicity is not the problem. Radioactivity was my biggest concern, when I ordered my first Rb-clock.The manufacturer told me, there's no radioactivity, that you have to fear. When the package came I used a Geiger tube to calm myself down - there was no measurable activity at all. If the clock doesn't work anymore, be careful when opening it, the bulb could be broken (though impropable). I don't know how the Rubidium will react in such a case, but it can react with the air and start to burn (but remember, it's a very small amount) and you could get some mg of a strong base, which is corrosive/caustic. To come to the point: You won't be able to wreak havoc with a Rb-lamp... Volker Am 09.07.2013 11:40, schrieb Attila Kinali: On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Attila Kinali ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5974 - Release Date: 07/08/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN
A few weeks ago I listened and there was something VERY weak (under 1 uV) from a 150 foot long wire. I've picked up 10+ mV a couple of months ago. Seems like they're still doing testing. On 7/4/2013 9:08 AM, J. Forster wrote: Has anybody listened for LORAN in the US lately? -John = ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5963 - Release Date: 07/04/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna splitter
They pop up on ebay sometimes. On 6/29/2013 2:35 PM, Graham wrote: I find my self in need of either splitting a current GPS antenna feed or putting up yet another antenna, I would prefer splitting the current feed. There are a few options one of which is a Mini Circuits ZAPD-2DC+ splitter/combiner whose data sheet specifically states DC pass through from one port to the combined port. Fair enough, this should work very well. However, there is another model, the ZAPD-2-N (having type N connectors) whose data sheet states neither DC feed through or not, in other words, it is does not say explicitly that it does or doesn't. I think the ZAPD-2-N splitter would work to split the antenna but I am sure about being able to feed the antenna through this splitter/combiner and was hoping someone could state yay or nay on that point. However, if it would not pass DC to the antenna I suppose I could add a power feed to the splitter to do so and some sort of a load on the GPS side to trick the receiver into thinking there was an antenna attached. I was about to order one of the ZAPD-2DC+ from the Mini Circuits web site but upon check out found they would only ship via UPS or some other courier rather than by USPS. This would double the price for this coming into Canada - I will only use UPS for domestic shipping if I have no choice but never for cross border purchases, their handling fees are just too much. So, I was just looking for alternatives or perhaps someone knows a source for the ZAPD-2DC+ that would be willing to use USPS for shipping. cheers, Graham ve3gtc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5949 - Release Date: 06/29/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT} audiophile outlets.....
Simple, just think of the next snake oil. There's always more. On 6/18/2013 10:33 PM, Brian, WA1ZMS wrote: What's gets me is that I didn't think of this snake oil first. Had I thought of it first I could own a PTI H-MASER by now. :- ) -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Didier Juges Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:01 PM To: n...@verizon.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure audiophile outlets You've got to be kidding but not even. At least, nobody is forcing anybody to buy them... Didier Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version
Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure
The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or creates circulating currents in a delta configuration. These currents, as you mention, can get very large and were the cause of many transformer explosions in cities as these power supplies became common. The transformer designs had to be improved, but the PFC supplies make a big difference. How many of you have looked at the power line waveform, especially in an industrial or commercial area? Doesn't look much like a sine wave, does it? So it's pretty funny to see audiophile outlets (http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/power_outlets). Peter On 6/15/2013 6:56 PM, stan, W1LE wrote: PFC to me is power factor correction, not only the classical power factor to minimize (VAR) volt-amp reactive component, but also to remove the harmonic load current imposd on the electrical power system. A '90's onward technique. in th 80's and 90's without the harmonic load current reduction and having a few 100 end items of equipment, each withtheir own a switch mode power supplly, it was not uncommon to find hundreds of amps of the third harmonc on neutra, in the electrical power distribution system. Could be a serious EMC problem if you were dealing with voice grade channels. And people safety issues. Stan, W1LE Cape Cod On 15-Jun-13 5:52 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: Sorry for the interruption but what is 'PFC'? Thanks. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:09 PM To: Robert Atkinson; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Perry Sandeen Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure In message 1371329221.83869.yahoomail...@web171902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com, Robert Atkinson writes: While I agree with everything else you say, you CAN have too much filter capacitance. At least where dc rectifier / filter (smoothing) circuits are concerned. Increasing C causes increased ripple current [...] And ripple current can be a major source of power-line frequency noise in all electronics. The main reason why switchmode power-supplies today (can) outperform linear power supplies with respect to noise, is because the legally mandated PFC correction eliminates the bridge-rectifier ripple harmonics. I would not hessitate to use a good quality switchmode to replace the linear supply in a HP5370B. I did some experiments a couple of years ago, with an audio-amplifier: I put a standard PFC corrector chip on the secondary side of the trafo. The overall result was not satisfactory, but the 50 Hz sneer we all know and hate was absent, and the Tzoing! power-on mechanical shock from the trafo was also eliminated, as was the consequent dimming of the lights ;-) The main reason not to do this, is that you need some physically gargantuan coils for a 10A+ PFC-switcher. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3199/5913 - Release Date: 06/15/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - but of interest?
An iPhone as a weapon of mass (times velocity squared) destruction. On 4/27/2013 7:03 PM, J. Forster wrote: Putting 100,000 items in space is a non-starter. The existing space trash is already a big concern, and there have been seriuous proposals for missions to clean it up. An iPhone, travelling at orbital velocity, has a lot of kinetic energy! There was an uproar years ago when the Westford Needles experiment was launched, and those had a known mechanism to de-orbit the things. As to tossing one out the docking port, unstabilized objects will tumble. The chances of getting a useful picture of the area of interest are small. YMMV, -John == On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Gregory Muir engineer...@mt.net wrote: I'm curious if they ever have any problem with earth-based commercial component outgassing clouding the camera optics. I went to a lecture on the idea of putting a cell phone like object in orbit. The idea was that it should have a cost and size about like a phone. This is very different from a pico-sat (a 4 inch cube) because the pico sat costs $100,000 or more and the phone is under $500 The idea is that $500 satellites you don't have to care about failures. The plan was to place maybe 100,000 devices in orbit and as they fail just launch another 1,000 or so at a time. The proposal was to launch them from a rocket carried under an aircraft. The goal was an un-jamable world wide data network. The phones would self-organize into a mesh network. But no one is going to do this. But still the question lives on: What could you do with a iPhone in orbit? One idea was diagnostics. A big spacecraft like a space station of crew capsule headed to mars might toss a few outside so they could get photos of the exterior if they suspected a problem or if the phone is cheap just to get snapshot. But I'd bet a bunch they'd use a $100K pico sat for that. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5777 - Release Date: 04/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] S743 Marketplace Fariness Act... and freq standard box
What I read is that it is for merchants who exceed a million dollars a year. So, if it is determined it is each seller that is responsible, it would only apply to those doing greater than a million in sales (not many). If however it is determined that it is ebay who is the merchant, then they would have to handle the tax collection and payment and it would simply be added to the final auction and maybe plus shipping amount (depending on the state and what is taxable). This is the most likely scenario. It is more complex than just what tax rate to use as each state taxes different things. For example, some states do not tax clothing, others do, and some others only if the item exceeds some cost. As I mentioned in another message there are third party services which keep track of all this already. For a site like ebay it is complex but not daunting task to set that up. I will spend my time worrying about how I am building my combo Rb and Thunderbolt box. I have a TADD-1 amp in there, pulse stretchers to drive front panel 1 PPS live indicators, a serial to IP adapter to give the box network connectivity (mainly for the Thunderbolt but switchable to the FE-5680A). I have a fan setup in an isolated section (it is built into a 2U rack box) for the TB so LH can help with temperature, but I'm not sure if I should use a computer to discipline the Rb or just set it close manually every so often. And which should I feed into the TADD dist amp? The Rb? Initially I'm just putting a switch in so I can select. I'd love to hear comments on this. I can post photos of where I am at in the construction if anyone is interested. Peter On 4/23/2013 6:51 PM, Tom Knox wrote: The eBay emails appear real since it can also be accessed on my actual eBay site. I cannot imagine what a pain it would be to sell 20 items on eBay each to a buyer in a different state and be required to file the paperwork to pay taxes on each of those sales. This is a formula for disaster. Thomas Knox To: time-nuts@febo.com From: johncr...@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:04:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] S743 Marketplace Fariness Act The ebay message re this law is probably legit. In any case the congress IS considering such a law. In essence it forces all internet sellers to collect the sales tax due in the buyers state. If you live in a state with a law requiring that sales tax be paid on all out of state purchases (internet or not), often called a use tax, as the buyer you are required to pay this tax. The taxes already are on the books, they are often not enforced. You can learn all about this with a Google search which will reveal all sorts of opinions. Here is one that is not too bad: http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2013/04/23/five-things-you-should-know-about-the-long-overdue-online-sales-tax-bill/ If you already comply with the law and do a lot of internet purchases; passage will relieve you of a pain in the ass accounting job at tax time. If your state has no such tax or if you avoid paying it, though your state requires it, passage will cost you some sale taxes you would have otherwise escaped. One nasty consequence is that the software to pull this off is non-trivial since local sales taxes in many states vary by county, school district, local bond issues and so on. How that is handled should be amusing. -73 john k6iql ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5768 - Release Date: 04/23/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] S743 Marketplace Fariness Act
I was involved in a business which was expecting that kind of thing. There are several third party firms already out there standing at the ready with such tax tables by address. It won't be a big deal to implement, should it come to that. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the tax, just saying that as a web systems implementer I wasn't worried. Peter On 4/23/2013 4:04 PM, johncr...@aol.com wrote: The ebay message re this law is probably legit. In any case the congress IS considering such a law. In essence it forces all internet sellers to collect the sales tax due in the buyers state. If you live in a state with a law requiring that sales tax be paid on all out of state purchases (internet or not), often called a use tax, as the buyer you are required to pay this tax. The taxes already are on the books, they are often not enforced. You can learn all about this with a Google search which will reveal all sorts of opinions. Here is one that is not too bad: http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2013/04/23/five-things-you-should-know-about-the-long-overdue-online-sales-tax-bill/ If you already comply with the law and do a lot of internet purchases; passage will relieve you of a pain in the ass accounting job at tax time. If your state has no such tax or if you avoid paying it, though your state requires it, passage will cost you some sale taxes you would have otherwise escaped. One nasty consequence is that the software to pull this off is non-trivial since local sales taxes in many states vary by county, school district, local bond issues and so on. How that is handled should be amusing. -73 john k6iql ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5768 - Release Date: 04/23/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: eBay Contact Congress
I'm guessing it's real: http://www.ebaymainstreet.com/news Of course, as always, don't go clicking on random links... On 4/22/2013 12:14 PM, J. Forster wrote: I did trace the headers back via SpamCop before posting. The originating ISP looked sort of eBayish, sort of not eBayish... inconclusive... hence the question. -John = First rule of E-mail forensics: Look at the full headers. Trace the message's origin path. That'll tell you in a heartbeat if the thing is genuine or a malware attempt. Keep the peace(es). *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 22-Apr-13 at 06:13 J. Forster wrote: Hi, I recieved a very odd communication, apparently from eBay, this morning. It is a request to contact Congress about sales taxes on internet sales. It APPEARS to be genuine, but I'm unconvinced. Has anybody else received this email, and is it for real? Puzzled, -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3162/5764 - Release Date: 04/22/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Connectors
Think of heat shrink with a layer of hot melt glue on the inside. Such stuff is used in most outdoor and especially underground utility wiring. Shrink the tubing and it melts the glue and the contracting tubing forces the glue into every crevice making a great waterproof splice. On 4/13/2013 5:07 PM, Hal Murray wrote: Can someone in the know clarify this? I'm not in the know. Several years ago, I found a short chunk of coax that the cable TV guys had left on the ground. It included a piece of heavy wall shrink tubing. There was a layer of sticky goop between the coax and the shrink tubing. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros
Yeah I'd join a gyro-nuts group. I have a shelf full of weird gyros, a stable platform, other gyro stuff. I made a little power supply to make 28 volts 3 phase 400 Hz, found it in an app note, for running a set of three tiny rate gyros I picked up. I'll go dig it out and let you know. Peter On 3/27/2013 4:40 PM, Bill Ezell wrote: Well, I can come up with something topical, read on. :) I saw a 'Bendix yaw-rate gyro' on FleaBay recently for $14.50. Of course, I had to buy it. What I got was the yaw-rate gyro package from a Northwest Airlines DC-10 that was stripped for parts around 2000. The gyro included the pull tag with tail number, the license number of the AP mechanic that pulled it, and some other cool stuff. What it turned out to really be is two gyros with two sets of electronics in one box about 6 x 2 x 5 box, all vintage '80s or so. Even better, it's a strapdown system. The actual gyro wheel is about the size of your thumbnail. I've just started tracing things out, and I've gotten the gyros to spin up. I really love mechanical gyros for some reason, too bad there's not a gyro-nuts group. I'm going to have great fun getting the package traced out and running. So, to be a bit more topical, the package of course needs 28V 400Hz for the gyros, 28VDC for something, and +/-15V for most of the electronics. Question - anyone figured out some clever solution for the 400Hz power? I faked it with a signal generator and power amp, but that's a bit bulky. I'm thinking I'll use one of the class-D amp ICs and a simple op-amp phase-shift sine generator. Topical in a more abstract way, strapdown systems really are very interesting. They require precise integration of the rate output over time to derive velocity and position, and really weren't practical until the 70's when small enough computers existed to do the requisite calculations. (I worked on the nav system for the Trident missile back in my Draper Labs days). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros
The circuit I built used a ULN3751Z (TO-220) amplifier chip and some capacitors to create the phase shifts for making 3 phase. Very simple oscillator circuit. Haven't found the docs yet but found the unit itself. On 3/27/2013 6:59 PM, Bill Ezell wrote: I neglected to mention that. The DC resistance of the motor windings is roughly 200 ohms. I estimate the power draw is 2 watts. Haven't measured the inductance. I probably could just use some FETs and build a simple class-B amp. The sine wave doesn't have to be absolutely pure. Frequency stability (at least, in a real application) is more important, since the gyro response depends upon the rotational speed of the wheel. Not that I'm going to actually use it for anything other than just getting it working. :) On 03/27/2013 6:21 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: For thumbsized gyros, the power-drain is probably very slight. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros
I have a little dynamotor somewhere which makes 3 phase 400 Hz. Tiny little thing! Only puts out like 15 VA, and not very noisy either. IIRC is was called an Instrument inverter On 3/27/2013 9:55 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If three phase is actually needed, I'd suggest something like a cheap PIC with three PWM outputs. Fairly simple R/C's on the outputs should be plenty good enough to filter out any crud. Good frequency stability / accurate phase shift / cheap. What's not to like …. Bob On Mar 27, 2013, at 9:44 PM, kb0...@juno.com wrote: Bill Ezell; Your Gyro may require 3 phase, 400 cps, 28 vac, Sine wave. A simple Buffered Phase Shift Oscillator for 400 cps can create the Sine Wave. https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/h6v28g/buffered-phase-shift-oscillator/https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/bakd83/phase-shift-oscillator-ii/You will need to add an AGC to the output for frequency stability. A 3 Phase Generator can create the 3 phase output.https://www.circuitlab.com/circuit/m4u5nw/3-phase-generator/ Add 3 Amplifiers (one for each phase) to reach voltage/power. If the Gyro is directional, it will take several hours to stabilize. Carl Refinance your home now Loans under 729K usually qualify for US GOV backed refinance programs http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5153a0bf2812c20bf6124st04duc ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5707 - Release Date: 03/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT - DC-10 gyros
If you need good 3 phase 400 Hz you can get a VFD which goes up that high and program it to just sit there making 400 Hz. On 3/27/2013 11:16 PM, bownes wrote: On Mar 27, 2013, at 22:54, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 3/27/13 3:20 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Of course, for the more mechanically inclined.. what about a big flywheel driving an alternator. You might be able to rejigger a car alternator. I don't recall how many poles they have.. A motor driving a flywheel driving an alternator/generator is called a motor generator set. Some implementations are called a diesel electric locomotive. We used to use them as power conditioners for Cray class supercomputers. Also used by many home machinists to generate 3 phase from single phase power. Car alternators are generally 3 phase internally. Don't know if you could get 28vac out tho. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5707 - Release Date: 03/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Linked-in Emails
Yes, you have to be very careful, they give you a screen which looks like an email login and you might be tempted to just type your password. On 3/21/2013 4:55 PM, J. Forster wrote: Unless you are very careful, LinkedIn harvests your address book and spams everybody in it to join. IMO, it's malware. YMMV, -John Hello, I am sorry for the email traffic that Linked-in has generated. Somehow it picked up every email address in my email list. My appologies, Sam ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5694 - Release Date: 03/21/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN C still on the air 24 hours SRS 700 looking good
I don't have a Loran receiver but last night in the Boston area I definitely was able to pick up a strong Loran signal. Peter On 3/19/2013 11:33 AM, paul swed wrote: ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5688 - Release Date: 03/19/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN C still on the air 24 hours SRS 700 looking good
We should get together, especially since I was laid off a couple of weeks ago (after the place I worked went Ch 11 and was bought by the Chinese) and have some free time. Peter On 3/19/2013 2:03 PM, David I. Emery wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 01:29:44PM -0400, paul swed wrote: Peter you are in boston, I am in franklin. We must be 25-30 miles apart Regards Paul Peter lives about 3 miles from my house in Weston... in a corner of Natick abutting Weston. So three of us are quite close. John Forster lives in Belmont (or did)... which is also pretty close. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LORAN C still on the air 24 hours SRS 700 looking good
Well if it ever stops snowing I plan on hitting the MIT fleas (and NEARfest) again this year! Peter On 3/19/2013 2:45 PM, paul swed wrote: So Boston reclaims the technology capital of the world with all of the time-nuttery folks around here. And to think people believe its silicon valley. I know John and I get to the MIT flea and perhaps its one of you two that I have seen walking off with the widget I was looking for and missed out on by a few minutes. :-) Regards Paul. On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:03 PM, David I. Emery d...@dieconsulting.comwrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 01:29:44PM -0400, paul swed wrote: Peter you are in boston, I am in franklin. We must be 25-30 miles apart Regards Paul Peter lives about 3 miles from my house in Weston... in a corner of Natick abutting Weston. So three of us are quite close. John Forster lives in Belmont (or did)... which is also pretty close. -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5688 - Release Date: 03/19/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Install
With lightning it is the very high current and the fast rise time that gets you. So yes, a tenth of an ohm can develop 1 kV across it with a big direct hit. Having the best surge strip made won't help you if its cord and the output cords are all in a single heap together as they will nicely couple to each other, bypassing the protection. On 3/16/2013 2:45 PM, Don Latham wrote: Ah. Why bother with all that mess, 'specially if the ground rod is cad plated instead of copper. The right clamp is cheap, and not likely to start the whole surroundings on fire. yikes. There are codes for grounding for both electrical as well as lightning systems. Do not forget that separate grounds for the electrical system and the lightning system are not a good idea. Think a tenth of an ohm and a few kv... Don Don Martin A Flynn Exothermic weld = CadWeld. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exothermic_welding On 3/16/2013 2:11 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Better check the electrical code in your area. They likely are quite specific about what you can and can't do with a proper ground connection. Copper / copper welding generally means brazing or soldering. Both are often prohibited due to the heat burst at the joint during a lightning hit. That surprised me a bit the first time I ran into it, but made sense once I dug out the explanation. Bob On Mar 16, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: ground rods usually thin copper clad over steel. Better to use proper copper clad clamps with anticorrosion paste than to try to weld. Don Martin A Flynn On 3/10/2013 11:18 AM, Martin A Flynn wrote: Sorry about the blank messages - not sure why I could not reply to my own message... In any case, thanks to the help from kind folks on the list, the TS-2100L in in the rack at the N2MO amateur radio station at InfoAge. The N2MO team spent yesterday doing the prep work to mount a 27dB antenna on the gable end of the building, using 1/2 heliax for feed line, with a Polyphaser DGXZ + 06NFNF installed in the line before it enters the building. The antenna mount pipe and the Polyphaser are grounded via #2 copper cable that will be exothermic welded to the ground rod. Thanks again! Martin Flynn PS - Now that the precision time bug has bitten, the team, is considering a Rubidium standard! Precision time novice needing help ! We have chance to upgrade (replace) our existing TS-2100-L with a TS2100-GPS system with the rubidium option. What questions should we be asking the seller? *Is there a method to determine the lamp hours from the console? *Software vintage that corrects the 1PPS issue (or is it relevant)? While InfoAge is a huge site, it is not a huge budget! Martin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna Install
I know more about substation grounding, where exothermic welding is frequently used, although there are some approved mechanical clamps. On 3/16/2013 2:11 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Better check the electrical code in your area. They likely are quite specific about what you can and can't do with a proper ground connection. Copper / copper welding generally means brazing or soldering. Both are often prohibited due to the heat burst at the joint during a lightning hit. That surprised me a bit the first time I ran into it, but made sense once I dug out the explanation. Bob On Mar 16, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: ground rods usually thin copper clad over steel. Better to use proper copper clad clamps with anticorrosion paste than to try to weld. Don Martin A Flynn On 3/10/2013 11:18 AM, Martin A Flynn wrote: Sorry about the blank messages - not sure why I could not reply to my own message... In any case, thanks to the help from kind folks on the list, the TS-2100L in in the rack at the N2MO amateur radio station at InfoAge. The N2MO team spent yesterday doing the prep work to mount a 27dB antenna on the gable end of the building, using 1/2 heliax for feed line, with a Polyphaser DGXZ + 06NFNF installed in the line before it enters the building. The antenna mount pipe and the Polyphaser are grounded via #2 copper cable that will be exothermic welded to the ground rod. Thanks again! Martin Flynn PS - Now that the precision time bug has bitten, the team, is considering a Rubidium standard! Precision time novice needing help ! We have chance to upgrade (replace) our existing TS-2100-L with a TS2100-GPS system with the rubidium option. What questions should we be asking the seller? *Is there a method to determine the lamp hours from the console? *Software vintage that corrects the 1PPS issue (or is it relevant)? While InfoAge is a huge site, it is not a huge budget! Martin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5681 - Release Date: 03/16/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna
The seller had a make offer so I tried $20 and it was set to auto accept. I figure for $25 (with shipping) it's worth a shot for a new unit. The Trimble data sheet says it is good for up to 75 feet of coax, I think I'll end up with about 50 here. The antenna I have been using is a no-name pole mount unit with 25 feet of attached RG-59 coax that came with the TBolt kit I initially got. I'm not a big fan of RG-59. So what coax should I use? Many people say use good RG-6, although the Dranetz power line units with GPS come with a 100 foot piece of 1/4 Heliax, I have to imagine that would be better. Here's some on epay: 360492678643, but with wrong connectors. Expensive, though, here are approx attenuation numbers at the frequency of interest: RG-5910.4 dB/100 ft RG-68.4 dB/100 ft Heliax 7.4 dB/100 ft FSJ1-50A RG-11 5.7 dB/100 ft (Yes, I'm aware of the impedance differences) It seems, just go with quad shield RG-6 and be done with it. I even have part of a spool of that laying around. Maybe more of an issue is how do you properly connect a TNC to that stuff (the antenna has a TNC). Peter On 3/10/2013 11:01 AM, Volker Esper wrote: Hi Peter, Why not. The antenna is optimized for that purpose (receiving GPS L1), omnidirectional and tuned to the GPS frequency, snow skids down, birds can't land on it. As N0UU affirms, there's nothing further sensational inside. I don't know, how proficient you are with radio frequency stuff, but a gain of 35dB does not guarantee a good reception. You primarily need gain to compensate (cable) losses. The noise figure (NF), for example, can get much more important. What antenna do you use at the time? If you are using a magnetic car roof antenna a Trimble Bullet surely will be a better choice... There are lots of GPS antennas on ebay for even less than 30 Dollars. I run four different antennas, which I purchased from ebay and none of them has failed so far. Volker Am 10.03.2013 06:07, schrieb Peter Gottlieb: I'd like to get a better antenna for my Thunderbolt. I see Trimble bullet antennas type 57860-00 on ebay for $30 or so, specs look to be 5 volt 35 dB gain. Would something like this be a good choice? Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5660 - Release Date: 03/09/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna
Thank you. The antenna spec is 35 dB gain and I'll end up with 50-75 feet of RG-6. Maybe I'll just put in a TNC-F adapter as there are F connectors made especially for RG-6, and probably no TNC connectors like that! Thanks again. Peter On 3/10/2013 12:35 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi How long a run of coax will you have? Do you have a power splitter at the receiver end? You probably need 10 db of gain between the antenna and the receiver. If the antenna has 25 db of gain, you have 15 db to waste on cable loss and power splitting. With no power splitter, you could run about 200' of RG-6. You likely will spend less on that amount of cable (plus the F connectors) than you will just on the connectors for the Heliax… As mentioned in an earlier thread, RG-59 may or may not be what the tables say it should be. RG-6 quad shield is made for the same frequency range as GPS. Weather it works broadband or not - who knows. It's pretty likely that it will indeed work at satellite / GPS frequencies. In a receiving application, impedance isn't a big issue. Since the TBolt is designed for 75 ohms, it's probably happier with 75 ohm cable. The antenna - who knows. Either way 50 or 75 ohms - no big deal. Bob On Mar 10, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: The seller had a make offer so I tried $20 and it was set to auto accept. I figure for $25 (with shipping) it's worth a shot for a new unit. The Trimble data sheet says it is good for up to 75 feet of coax, I think I'll end up with about 50 here. The antenna I have been using is a no-name pole mount unit with 25 feet of attached RG-59 coax that came with the TBolt kit I initially got. I'm not a big fan of RG-59. So what coax should I use? Many people say use good RG-6, although the Dranetz power line units with GPS come with a 100 foot piece of 1/4 Heliax, I have to imagine that would be better. Here's some on epay: 360492678643, but with wrong connectors. Expensive, though, here are approx attenuation numbers at the frequency of interest: RG-5910.4 dB/100 ft RG-68.4 dB/100 ft Heliax 7.4 dB/100 ft FSJ1-50A RG-11 5.7 dB/100 ft (Yes, I'm aware of the impedance differences) It seems, just go with quad shield RG-6 and be done with it. I even have part of a spool of that laying around. Maybe more of an issue is how do you properly connect a TNC to that stuff (the antenna has a TNC). Peter On 3/10/2013 11:01 AM, Volker Esper wrote: Hi Peter, Why not. The antenna is optimized for that purpose (receiving GPS L1), omnidirectional and tuned to the GPS frequency, snow skids down, birds can't land on it. As N0UU affirms, there's nothing further sensational inside. I don't know, how proficient you are with radio frequency stuff, but a gain of 35dB does not guarantee a good reception. You primarily need gain to compensate (cable) losses. The noise figure (NF), for example, can get much more important. What antenna do you use at the time? If you are using a magnetic car roof antenna a Trimble Bullet surely will be a better choice... There are lots of GPS antennas on ebay for even less than 30 Dollars. I run four different antennas, which I purchased from ebay and none of them has failed so far. Volker Am 10.03.2013 06:07, schrieb Peter Gottlieb: I'd like to get a better antenna for my Thunderbolt. I see Trimble bullet antennas type 57860-00 on ebay for $30 or so, specs look to be 5 volt 35 dB gain. Would something like this be a good choice? Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5660 - Release Date: 03/09/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5660 - Release Date: 03/09/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna
Exactly. I'll probably wait until NEARfest up here and pick one up there. You
know, more justification to go.
Peter
On 3/10/2013 12:45 PM, George Dubovsky wrote:
It seems, just go with quad shield RG-6 and be done with it. I even have
part of a spool of that laying around. Maybe more of an issue is how do
you properly connect a TNC to that stuff (the antenna has a TNC).
Peter
Here is one solution:
http://www.showmecables.com/Category/F-Connectors-Adapters.aspx?q=pg=1ps=25fq={attr_display2_sm:TNC%20to%20F}fq={attr_display2_sm:F%20to%20TNC}
http://www.showmecables.com/Category/F-Connectors-Adapters.aspx?q=pg=1ps=25fq=%7Battr_display2_sm:TNC%20to%20F%7Dfq=%7Battr_display2_sm:F%20to%20TNC%7D
73,
geo - n4ua
On 3/10/2013 11:01 AM, Volker Esper wrote:
Hi Peter,
Why not. The antenna is optimized for that purpose (receiving GPS L1),
omnidirectional and tuned to the GPS frequency, snow skids down, birds
can't land on it. As N0UU affirms, there's nothing further sensational
inside.
I don't know, how proficient you are with radio frequency stuff, but a
gain of 35dB does not guarantee a good reception. You primarily need
gain to compensate (cable) losses. The noise figure (NF), for example,
can get much more important.
What antenna do you use at the time? If you are using a magnetic car
roof antenna a Trimble Bullet surely will be a better choice...
There are lots of GPS antennas on ebay for even less than 30 Dollars.
I run four different antennas, which I purchased from ebay and none of
them has failed so far.
Volker
Am 10.03.2013 06:07, schrieb Peter Gottlieb:
I'd like to get a better antenna for my Thunderbolt.
I see Trimble bullet antennas type 57860-00 on ebay for $30 or so,
specs look to be 5 volt 35 dB gain.
Would something like this be a good choice?
Peter
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5660 - Release Date: 03/09/13
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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna
I'd like to get a better antenna for my Thunderbolt. I see Trimble bullet antennas type 57860-00 on ebay for $30 or so, specs look to be 5 volt 35 dB gain. Would something like this be a good choice? Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
I am not convinced the temperature control in mine is functional. For example, the temperature target seems to not do anything at all. With the box insulated the internal temperature is around 46 C and nothing changes if I set that number to 40 or 50 C, it is still around that 46 plus or minus 1 or 2 C as the environment changes. What do you mean by having your fan steered by the LH temperature controller? As for the optimization, I can't find that key combination. Is there anywhere a COMPLETE listing of all the key functions for the program? Peter On 3/8/2013 2:57 AM, Achim Vollhardt wrote: Peter, I did let the internal algorithm make it's optimization (can't remembere which key sequence it was) once everything has settled. The lab here has 2-3 degC ambient variations over the day, but putting the Thunderbolt in a box which is ventilated (well.. fan-ed) by the LH temperature controller in a steered way, the temperature variations are down to single clicks of the Thunderbolt-internal thermometer reading (which appear to be 6 mK). Achim Achim, Did you change any temperature controller settings from default values? I am seeing about a 10:1 correspondence between ambient changes and internal reported temperature movement. Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5654 - Release Date: 03/07/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Yeah, that sort of hit me after reading through the code. I enabled the control lines in my serial to IP adapter and will hook up a fan in the box setup and see if I can things to be more stable. On 3/8/2013 6:11 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Peter wrote: I am not convinced the temperature control in mine is functional. Temperature control is a capability within Lady Heather (not the Tbolt itself) and requires external hardware (e.g., box and fan) to implement. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5657 - Release Date: 03/08/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Achim, Did you change any temperature controller settings from default values? I am seeing about a 10:1 correspondence between ambient changes and internal reported temperature movement. Peter On 3/7/2013 12:32 PM, Achim Vollhardt wrote: Hi Garren, just as an example, what can be done with the LH internal temperature controller: http://gulp.physik.uzh.ch/heather/ Hardware pictures can be found here: http://gulp.physik.uzh.ch/heather/pics/ Achim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5652 - Release Date: 03/06/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
Don't get hung up on the display EMI (for it is indeed very very tiny), look for any steady emission. Yes, the amount is small, yes it can be shielded a bit, but yes it is certainly possible to pick up. As I mentioned in my original post, you may very well need to shield out external noise to see it clearly. And with a not-so-sensitive analyzer, you'll need a pre-amp. Everything electronic emits and is detectable unless it is shielded eight ways to Sunday. Peter On 3/3/2013 7:11 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 03/03/2013 10:00 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In message657D7F7CC03849419A2A90752E6A60A6@pc52, Tom Van Baak writes: When playing with watches a while ago I tried to pick up any 32 kHz signal but failed. Those with 1 Hz stepper motors were easy, but LED or LCD displays were too electro/magnetic/acoustic quiet for me to ever detect anything. Most LCD and LED clocks have a shielding metal-coating on the front glass, exactly to eliminate all EMI/EMC issues. Darn. I should have guessed. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
I had one for work a while back and asked the IT security guys about it and was told that the change was on a fixed schedule but of course each fob was a little different due to temperature, over time, etc and that the system automatically learned the fobs and opened or tightened its tolerance for when the fobs updated. So if you had a slow one the system would adapt over time and just learn to expect that but if the timing got too far off they would replace the fob. I suppose if you kept messing with the timing by leaving in the sun or freezer eventually you would get rejected logins and your IT people would want to replace it, unless they manually really loosened up the timing windows. The people I asked didn't mind my inquiries and seemed eager to chat but some places might be a bit more paranoid. On 3/2/2013 3:57 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 3/2/13 12:30 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: My fob only outputs a code on demand, that is after I push the button. Any of the motion detection programs that use webcams would detect the change in display, but with a multiplexed display, I'm not sure how well. Interesting point.. mine only has the 6 digit (7-segment) display, but I'm sure it's multiplexed (digit/segment).. But, the mux rate is fairly high, compared to the transition time for the segments. So maybe I can average over some (short) time... What I want to do is see what the temperature dependence is. (prompted by leaving the fob in the sun, and having the code rejected, presumably because it was slightly ahead) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5642 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] webcam app to watch for and time stamp changes
Perhaps you can detect EMI from the device especially if you put it it a shielded metal box with pickup antenna. You might be able to get the clock right from that. On 3/2/2013 6:50 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 3/2/13 2:52 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Jim, I had a similar challenge a while ago. I ended up capturing a 4-digit, 7-segment display with a USB/LAN webcam, converting the JPG to BMP, analyzing pixel gradients, matching the image with heuristic masks, and appending an ascii log file with the 4 decimal digit result once a minute. It worked amazingly well. I can send you the C source code (contact me off-line). See also these legacy links: http://leapsecond.com/webcam/ http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2003/paper35.pdf More recently I used the same webcam to capture AC mains wall clock time vs. a cesium clock: http://leapsecond.com/pages/tec/mains-clock-ani.gif Now, it may seem very old-fashion and crude to use a web cam to capture data. I've used that scheme more than once.. as well as similar approaches of spinning wheels or counters driving LEDs to measure camera shutter timing. But, if I understand correctly, in your case, you are more interested using the external LCD display as a *proxy* for the internal crystal oscillator. exactly Thus you are not concerned with the actual numeric value that the LCD segments are displaying; you are simply interested in measuring the time at which the LCD digits and segments change -- because that corresponds to the phase/frequency of the internal oscillator. yes Measuring clock drift and tempco would be very easy and would produce interesting results. The higher the rate of web cam capture the finer the resolution of your TIC detection. Note that multiplexed displays are not a problem; in fact, if you're clever it can actually improve your resolution by observing the segment transition times. That is, instead of *polling* the display, you use *changes* in the display as your timing trigger. Edge detection. You move from a world of periodic/gated frequency counters to a world of a reciprocal period counters, or even time-stamping counters. In other words, since you are interested in the underlying clock performance rather than the RSA algorithm itself, just focus a few photo-transistor(s) on the LCD segment(s). That's what I was thinking.. the segments are pretty small, though, so some optics and fixturing would need to be fabricated. The idea of point webcam at RSA fob and run software was pretty appealing. The transition from light/dark/light/dark will exactly correspond to some internal crystal clock phase/frequency, from which you can gather precise long-term phase, frequency, and stability information. Edges are always better than polling. Yes indeed.. I can't think of a good reason why they would decouple the segment mux from the underlying clock (unless there's some built in RC oscillator in the chip doing the mux, separate from the timekeeping). Actually, there's probably some information around on the internal design of the fob.. After all, the security is in the algorithm, not the hardware. The idea is that segment *transition* instants rather than periodic observation of segment *state* provides much greater accuracy. What you want to do is measure the time of transition of individual segments. I would use time-stamping rather than polling or time interval or frequency measurement. That is, use a CNT-91, or picPET (www.leapsecond.com/pic). If you look at a 7-segment digit encoding table (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display) you can see that focusing on segment 'e' gives you 8 transitions out of every 10, and using two opto-detectors on segments 'a' and 'e' will allow you to generate a timing event for every change in LCD digit. This will be several orders of magnitude more precise than using a web cam. You don't need photo-transistors on all segments. Even better, there's a little segment that blinks on and off every second, as well as a stack of 6 that go away, one every 10 seconds, and then, finally, the 6 digits. If I rig up an optical system, the 1 pps segment is the logical one to look at. Time to look for some suitable optics. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is 10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with dd. ws From: Garren Davis Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
Typical, the image didn't go through. Here is a link to it: http://petergottlieb.com/images/tbolt.gif On 3/2/2013 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is 10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with dd. ws From: Garren Davis Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
The antenna has a pretty clear sky view right now. I have about 75 feet of cable, 25 feet that came attached permanently to the antenna, might be RG-59, and a 50 foot extension which is a new piece of good quality RG-6 CATV cable. Perhaps the antenna (came with the tbolt in the ebay deal) is not that good and I should get something better before taking the effort to get it up in its permanent location? On 3/2/2013 10:06 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi As much as can be told from a 17 minute plot - looks ok. The antenna could indeed be a bit higher and that would hopefully take care of the crummy sat c/n numbers. What kind of feed line / antenna are you using? Cable TV RG-6 quad shield from your local big box store is a real good choice for the coax. RG-58/59 are not as good at this frequency. Bob On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:52 PM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: Typical, the image didn't go through. Here is a link to it: http://petergottlieb.com/images/tbolt.gif On 3/2/2013 9:45 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: I finally got the antenna outside, but just onto a deck railing and not yet up high on the roof. Before I do that, does it look like I'm getting decent performance from it? Here is the LH display: Once up on the roof the Westerly exposure will be improved, but North East and South are pretty much clear right now. Does anything else look suspicious or wrong? Any hints greatly appreciated! On 2/26/2013 1:53 PM, WarrenS wrote: Can anyone comment on the picture. I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. The screen dump is way too short to give much detail. What can be said from what is there: From a Ham standpoint it is all working fine and is much better than 1e-9. From a time nut standpoint it is very poor. It is using the default setting (for the most part) Phase error at -100ns is ~50 times high for the 100 sec TC setting used, (likely due to the high drift rate of the Osc) Frequency error is wondering around 1e-10 is about 50 times higher than what is possible. Effect on freq and phase noise with sat changes is 10 times more that what is possible with good setup. Concerning your Dac comments, Yes makes sense, but your conclusing is wrong. Can't say or sure, because the 24 Hr + screen shot is not shown, but in general The Tbolt temperature reading has no direct effect on the Dac control voltage unless the Tbolt is in hold over. The Dac voltage changes because the oscillator's freq is trying to change, not the other way around. You can disable the Dac from changing with dd. ws From: Garren Davis Subject: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers Hi, I have been playing with my thunderbolt and Lady Heather over the weekend. I hope it's ok that I attached a screen dump of what I have. Can anyone comment on the picture. It's been running less than a day and I don't know if what I have would be considered good as far as accuracy and stability is concerned. Thanks. Garren ** Garren Davis garren.davis at qlogic.com From looking at the graph over 24 hours it looks like the outer oven varies about +-.5C. This is from the tbolt temperature sensor as the tbolt is in the outer oven. The inner oven where the oscillator is located holds at 66.4C. My concern is that it looks like the tbolt algorithm controls the DAC voltage depending on the temperature that the tbolt reads. Temperature goes up, the DAC voltage goes up. If the inner oven is holding steady then I don't want the DAC voltage changing if the temperature in the outer oven is changing. Is there any way to tell the tbolt algorithm to ignore the temperature in its DAC calculation? Wow, I hope this makes sense the way I explained it. Garren 8 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5634 - Release Date: 02/26/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5643 - Release Date: 03/02/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather numbers
How does one set the AMU value with LH? On 2/26/2013 12:05 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: To quote WarrenS: To allow the Tbolt to work with weak signals from any antenna that I've tried, even when indoors, I start by setting the TBolt's AMU level from the default of 4 down to 0. This can be done with the Tbolt S/W or LH. My general AMU setting goal is to make it low enough so that the TB is always using a minimum of three satellites. If the TB ever does goes into holdover, that should be fixed, because that will cause some serious freq offset noise at the TBolt's output, The usual holdover fix is to give the antenna a better view of the sky and/or lower the TBolts AMU setting. It is better to set the AMU too low which will allow it to use weak signals all the time than it is to set it too high and have No signals even for a short time. After lowering the AMU value, if you want to optimize the setting, LH has all kinds of tools to help, such as the sat signal strength plot. ws -Chuck Harris Garren Davis wrote: The antenna has a pretty clear view of the sky. I notice that whenever a satellite drops out it causes the oscillator white trace and the DAC green trace to jump around. I wonder why that happens when there are 6 other good satellites. I can go back in time by using the down arrow and I see that it was pretty steady overnight until the furnace turned on to heat up the house. It's amazing how sensitive it is. Garren ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5632 - Release Date: 02/25/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Logging the grid frequency....
By their nature, these distributed generation devices operate in current injection mode. That is, they are synchronized to the line and inject enough current at whatever voltage the line is at (subject to IEEE 1547 provisions, e.g., -12% to +10% of nominal) to transfer the power they need to. So yes, they generate their power at the exact frequency the line is at. They are all four-quadrant devices and can also generate quadrature (imaginary) power as well so can correct for power factor problems. All the decent sized inverters I have seen are tightly phase locked to the line. Now here's a fun thing to think about: due to safety concerns the power company does not want any of these things to generate power if a line goes down. They call this a power island. So every inverter must have detection for this condition. It's trivial to detect if the load on the island is different than the inverter output - the voltage will immediately go out of bounds - but not so easy to detect if the island load matches the inverter output. so, what to do? One thing manufacturers do is to wiggle the Q (imaginary power) output and see if it shows up. If they're connected to the grid, well, they're way too small to move the overall power factor but if they're the only source, it shows right up! So many of these inverters are actually creating a small amount of phase noise onto the mains. In terms of powering things it is insignificant and of no consequence, but when you get to time-nut accuracy and measurement capabilities, I'd bet you can actually see such modulation! If you are out on a long run from the nearest substation it could even throw off your measurements as it will be non-steady and depend on insolation or local wind conditions of the source inverter. As for huge profits, well, not in that industry. Peter On 2/24/2013 11:01 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 02/23/13 12:01 PM, John wrote: All, If you want a reason for logging the mains frequency, see the following link to a news item which appeared on a BBC news program a few weeks ago here in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20629671 There was also a full program about it which you can listen to at the following link http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p7bxw John G3UUT Interesting. I never realized the UK national grid was just one grid, all running at the one frequency. I wonder if there are small variations in frequency at a local level due to all these wind-turbines that seem to be cropping up everywhere? I doubt they will generate a voltage at exactly the same frequency the voltage is coming into them, especially as it is not a constant. I personally object to funding these things so others can make a huge profit from them. Perhaps I can argue they are a threat to national security! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Logging the grid frequency....
Some grid connected inverters have a LOT of noise around the zero crossings, so much so that certain digital power meters won't function as they can't get frequency lock. I've seen this on the large Parker units as well as the low bid units out of China. So if you have solar or wind farm alternative energy projects nearby you may indeed see excessive noise. Excess noise and high order harmonics from such inverters has on occasion caused capacitive line filters on nearby equipment to overheat and catch fire. Peter On 2/23/2013 7:53 AM, Didier Juges wrote: I am curious how this compares with the zero crossing method. I suppose it should work much better because this method will not be so sensitive to noise around the zero crossings. It will use the entire waveform. Didier Sent from my Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker. -Original Message- From: Gabs Ricalde gsrica...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Logging the grid frequency Hello, I also don't have a Picotest or similar equipment but I've done similar things by using the line input of a soundcard. Multiply the recorded signal with a 60 Hz quadrature oscillator, apply a low pass filter then do some analysis on the resulting phasor. The stability of the sound card oscillator should be enough for this purpose. You can measure the frequency difference w.r.t. the 60 Hz oscillator by taking the slope of the phasor angle (be careful with phase wraparounds) and you can do this as often as you like. I'm curious how this compares with the zero crossing method. On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Daniel Mendes dmend...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have a Picotest U6200A. I´m trying to log the grid frequency (60Hz) to generate data for my work. I need to get data from every cycle. I setup their program (it always starts in chinese... very funny) but seems that it can only log every 100ms. Questions: 1) Is that a limitation of the equipment or the software? 2) Using direct comands, can I get data faster? Thanks for any help... Daniel ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5625 - Release Date: 02/23/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Logging the grid frequency....
I think you have to ask what is the use that is going to be made of that number. Do you want to know how well an old synchronous clock will keep time or do you want to know when there's been an (inductive) phase shift that signifies the loss of a transmission line? Are you interested in how phase relates at various parts of the system (synchrophasors)? How fast do you need to detect and how fast do you need to react (if that is your intent). Or do you just want to log and make pretty graphs later? You have to answer questions like this before you can say what is appropriate or not as a measurement means, and that's where this is heading, yes? On 2/22/2013 11:21 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Friends, The grid contains a massive amount of inertia in the rotating synchronous machinery that generates power. The 'springiness' of the transmission lines allows local noise and even phase noise that is caused by loads added to or dropped from the line. Hal Murray (ICBW) had pictures of individual cycles that were badly distorted by changing taps on distribution transformers. So it is not correct to measure one point to a gnat's nose hair and call it the grid frequency. It might be more accurate to put a flywheel on a synchronous motor and measure its speed, because the time constant of that system is a whole lot closer to that of the real grid frequency. Now, I understand that nobody build things like that any more, so perhaps a mathematical model of such a system could be solved by a computer that samples the line voltage at about 100 times line frequency. But perhaps I have misunderstood what you have been talking about. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5624 - Release Date: 02/22/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Needed: The Real Serial USB Fix
At work we simply use multi port serial cards (*no* USB intermediary) or Ethernet to serial adapters. Any use of USB for critical test equipment was pretty much banned here years ago. On 1/27/2013 8:47 AM, Stan, W1LE wrote: Hello The Net: Yes, I have had the mouse problem, but the more serious issue is when I run multiple (3) instances of Lady Heather (latest version at KE5FX) and after awhile none of the times agree and the problem only gets worse with time. I have tried the multiple USB to RS232 adapters into motherboard USB ports and I have tried a multi USB port PCI card. Any solutions with this problem ? Stan, W1LECape CodFN41sr ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5561 - Release Date: 01/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Needed: The Real Serial USB Fix
It came down to startup issues. If every fifth time the system was turned on it wouldn't initialize properly and not see an airflow or whatever sensor, it required the calling of a tech from the test group to come over and get it going. We run Labview but it was always a Windows problem as the devices wouldn't show up in Device Manager. Peter On 1/27/2013 1:48 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 1/27/13 9:30 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: At work we simply use multi port serial cards (*no* USB intermediary) or Ethernet to serial adapters. Any use of USB for critical test equipment was pretty much banned here years ago. Why the proscription against USB? Because of difficulty with USB device drivers? Or the plethora of serial port emulators that have unforeseen interactions with software that thinks it's talking to a real serial port? or what? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5561 - Release Date: 01/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Needed: The Real Serial USB Fix
What I would really like in Windows is a way to lock the configuration and make it more of an appliance which always worked the same way. That way a small board talking to a Thunderbolt would always start up and just run. I suppose I need to get away from Windows and climb the Linux learning curve. Peter On 1/27/2013 4:26 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 1/27/13 11:28 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: It came down to startup issues. If every fifth time the system was turned on it wouldn't initialize properly and not see an airflow or whatever sensor, it required the calling of a tech from the test group to come over and get it going. We run Labview but it was always a Windows problem as the devices wouldn't show up in Device Manager. Aha.. yes.. I understand.. Especially if you have a bunch of widgets with the same manufacturer/device number. How do you know that the USB widget that was COM4 yesterday is still COM4 and not COM 5. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2639/5561 - Release Date: 01/27/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MesoAmerican calendars, Solstice, etc.
You're missing something important! Due to possible errors in their long term calculations we may have actually missed the end! Passed right by with nobody noticing... Peter On 12/17/2012 2:31 PM, Jim Lux wrote: You knew it would be coming.. A discussion over lunch brought up the question of precisely WHEN this Maya calendar rollover/civilization ending event would occur. It's not enough to just say dec 21st.. Does the event occur at the beginning of the day, end of the day, in which local time scale.. Local news media and the blogosphere are woefully ignorant of such basic questions which time-nuts learn to ask at their mother's knee. I did find a reference that it's tied to the Solstice, or which we have a fairly precise instant: 1112UTC (although I've seen other numbers floating around). So, basically, I could not have to worry about going into work on Friday, because all the excitement will be over here in the Pacific Time zone(but I will have to get up real early to see it happen) But just like other time scales, how did those mesoAmericans reconcile their 360 day cycle to 365.25... day intervals between solstices? I've been rummaging through my ION CD of time and celestial nav papers, but didn't find anything at first on the whole issue (plenty on other astronomically derived scales). Anybody have any decent links to go hunting for? 5000 years is plenty long for significant precession of the equninoxes, for instance.. Maybe those Maya astronomers did a bang up job measuring, but hey, they probably didn't account for those higher order effects. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2637/5464 - Release Date: 12/16/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?
The antenna I got fron Nichegeek on ebay uses British Pipe Threads! Just can't get anything here that matches it. Perhaps I should just get a unit with regular NPT size threads? Can anyone recommend a specific model which works well with the Thunderbolt and has such a threaded bottom? Peter On 11/26/2012 8:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: You don't need that. Just a straight vertical pipe is perfect for a GPS antenna. All the outdoor are designed with the coax dropping straight down vertical into a pipe.All of them have a mount with pipe threads that makes a 100% waterproof connection.Lacking a mount, use a pipe flange and four stainless bolts. You will need either some sealent or a gasket between the flange and the antenna. Here is what it looks like on my house, using telephoto lens from down the street https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qec0lf48occeom/DSC_3134%20copy.jpg Notice that the coax and the connector is completely inside the pipe and never gets wet in the rain. Inside the attic the iron pipe transitions to plastic conduit. On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:35 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: If you were going to add a pipe for coax purpose, wouldn't you want something like the electrical service inlet? They have a bit of a hook on the top to reduce water penetration. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?
I suppose, although interestingly there isn't anything close. It just misses one size and the next smaller one it swims in. Although with enough epoxy... OTOH, who cares, it's sitting up where nobody will look closely and it's not like it's a structural element. So your suggestion looks like a winner, thanks! Peter On 11/26/2012 9:19 PM, Mike S wrote: On 11/26/2012 8:51 PM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: The antenna I got fron Nichegeek on ebay uses British Pipe Threads! Just can't get anything here that matches it. Perhaps I should just get a unit with regular NPT size threads? Why not just get a pipe nipple of close size, and grind off enough of the threads (if necessary) so you can JB Weld it in place, then go from there? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2629/5420 - Release Date: 11/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?
Unfortunately not, it's part of the molded bottom piece of the antenna casing. On 11/26/2012 9:24 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net mailto:n...@verizon.net wrote: The antenna I got fron Nichegeek on ebay uses British Pipe Threads! Just can't get anything here that matches it. Perhaps I should just get a unit with regular NPT size threads? Can anyone recommend a specific model which works well with the Thunderbolt and has such a threaded bottom? The typical antenna has a flat bottom that is bolted to some kind of mounting adaptor. Perhaps the thing with the British treads will un-bolt. THen you can buy a pipe flange at any hardware store. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2629/5420 - Release Date: 11/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?
In practice, I suspect what I use will be what I have on hand at the moment ;-) On 11/26/2012 9:34 PM, J. Forster wrote: You might better use RTV. I's plenty strong enough and can be taken apart if needed. -John = Unfortunately not, it's part of the molded bottom piece of the antenna casing. On 11/26/2012 9:24 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net mailto:n...@verizon.net wrote: The antenna I got fron Nichegeek on ebay uses British Pipe Threads! Just can't get anything here that matches it. Perhaps I should just get a unit with regular NPT size threads? Can anyone recommend a specific model which works well with the Thunderbolt and has such a threaded bottom? The typical antenna has a flat bottom that is bolted to some kind of mounting adaptor. Perhaps the thing with the British treads will un-bolt. THen you can buy a pipe flange at any hardware store. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2629/5420 - Release Date: 11/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2629/5420 - Release Date: 11/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS antenna in attic?
I'm beginning to set up in my new house and planning where all my various antennas are going to go. Being a wood frame building, I was wondering if it was sufficient to simply mount my Thunderbolt GPS antenna high in the attic. It would be convenient as there is already a high quality CATV line running from there to my lab area that I'm not going to use and the Thunderbolt antenna system is 75 ohms. Will I have much attenuation going through an asphalt shingle roof? What if it is wet? Or has some snow on it? Another advantage for me would be I could mount that antenna on the opposite end of the house from where I will have VHF and UHF transmitter antennas. Peter ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Warning if buying from directly from Agilent via eBay with Paypal.
That works just fine. I have two Paypal accounts, one tied to my regular bank account which I use for purchases, and another tied to a small account at a local bank (where I keep almost nothing) which I use for selling. As soon as money goes into that account I use an ATM to withdraw cash, which makes it harder for Paypal to track even if that bank gave them records as there is no direct link to my other account. I did add a credit card to my main Paypal account but I find that useful at times. Peter On 11/17/2012 5:37 PM, J. Forster wrote: Perhaps. That opens the possibility of linking a PayPal account to a bank account, then zeroing the balance. Somehow, I doubt that actually works. -John == You can get a Paypal account without a credit card. I think all you need is a bank account. In fact, every time I try to buy something with Paypal, it defaults to taking the money from my bank account, and every time I need to change it to take it from my credit card. I appear to have a $10,000 limit on my Paypal account, but at Agilent's request, I split the transaction into two. That money came direct from my current account. Dave On 17 November 2012 22:06, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: Odd. I would have expected anybody's PayPal limit would be lower than the associated credit card limit. Logically, one should be therefore able to get a PayPal account without a credit card,. -John === This is some of the communication between me and Agilent on eBay. I think it is clear Agilent wanted to use Paypal, and I did not. It was Agilent who said I should split the payment into two - one of $10,000 and the other of $7,736 Credit cards were not mentioned, but this would have been above the limit of my credit card limit anyway. I believe in the UK there is some protection with debit cards, although credit cards are certainly safer. Dave === start of communication on eBay From: drkirkby To: agilentused Subject: Re: Request to change an order: drkirkby sent a message about Agilent CertiPrime N9923A FieldFox Handheld RF Vector Network Analyzer 6GHz #170876934127 Sent Date: Sep-03-12 05:28:25 PDT Dear agilentused, Hi, OK, I agree with you, and accept the deal of the N9923A with ALL options fitted at $14,780 + 20% sales TAX, bringing this to a total of $17,736. However, this is over the limit I can pay via Paypal, which is $10,000. I think it would be better if you sent me the bank details so I can do a wire transfer, but you will need to give me some refernece number so you can tie up the payment at your end. If not, how else do you suggest I pay you? Dave - drkirkby = Hi Dave, thanks for your understanding. We would prefer the handling on Paypal. One possibility, just issue one payment of $1 and one of $7736. Would that work for you? Regards, Julian ## From: drkirkby To: agilentused Subject: Re: Request to change an order: drkirkby sent a message about Agilent CertiPrime N9923A FieldFox Handheld RF Vector Network Analyzer 6GHz #170876934127 Sent Date: Sep-04-12 04:47:07 PDT Dear agilentused, Hi Julian, Do you regularly take Paypal in multiple payments and find it is OK? I have read a few stories on the internet about Paypal can get quite difficult over large payments - freezing peoples Paypal accounts, holding their money, and it taking ages to sort out. That's what concerns me - especially if the $1 goes through, but I can't get the rest to you. It could be a bit tricky. But I know you sell expensive stuff on eBay, so if you have a lot of experience with large sums, I'll try Paypal. Dave - drkirkby /end of ebay communicaton On 17 November 2012 16:40, Pete Lancashire p...@petelancashire.com wrote: Payment is possible with Paypal or credit card. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 4:06 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: I'm just amazed Aligent doesn't take credit cards directly. Paypal is for small time players. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5401 - Release Date: 11/17/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A firmware dump
I've done lots of disassembly and strongly prefer an interactive disassembler. The reason is that code frequently combines tables and instructions and if you just try to straight disassemble you will get large sections of nonsense which even extend beyond the data due to multiple byte instructions vs the data boundary. More advanced disassemblers can also be told what compiler produced the code (guess until it looks best) and give you C code mixed in where it can figure it out. Doing this right isn't a trivial task. On 11/8/2012 5:04 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi A disassembler is only going to give you a steaming pile of assembly code. Assuming the origin of the code was a high(er) level language, you will have a major task ahead to turn it into anything rational. Writing a 8051 disassembler is likely a much easier project. Bob On Nov 8, 2012, at 12:11 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Murray not rocket science for some is to others and actually I would just like to know how the RB actually works. So I am staying clear of another endless project. Because I am not that smart. ;-) Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Murray Greenman denw...@orcon.net.nzwrote: Disassemblers are hardly rocket science. They are only a parser with a pile of memory to remember labels. Why not write your own? I've written them in the past (a long way in the past, and I've written cross-assemblers too), so I don't see anything difficult about writing one for the 8051. The nice part about writing your own is that you get to make it do exactly what you want. 73, Murray ZL1BPU __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5380 - Release Date: 11/07/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium as radio reference
Several of the large carriers have had all manner of issues due to the storm; not only network issues but mail servers as well. Peter On 11/4/2012 11:02 AM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Can anyone explain the five day delay in Mr. Gray's mail? -Original Message- From: John Ackermann N8UR Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 6:23 AM Joe, the question is whether the DDS spurs and noise on the FE-5680A are strong enough to interfere with your measurements. I suspect that in the HF/VHF range, you'd probably be OK, at UHF maybe dicey, at microwave probably not good (assuming you're multiplying the Rb up). I have phase noise measurements of the narrow DDS version of the FE-5680A along with some other low-cost Rbs at http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ 73, John On Oct 30, 2012, at 8:28 PM, Joseph Gray jg...@zianet.com wrote: I know that some here are Amateurs and have used external sources to provide a more accurate reference for a receiver. So, I have a noob question or two. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5373 - Release Date: 11/04/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Distribution amps and slew rate
Of course you can't have a perfect square wave! That would imply zero transition time and since frequency is inverse to time that implies infinitely high frequency bandwidth is required to achieve that perfect square wave. Getting a square wave with a fast enough slew rate between high and low levels is certainly achievable and better than that perfect square wave. Be careful what you ask for, because with a perfect square wave you would have such high frequency content that you would get induced noise everywhere. Peter On 11/3/2012 8:05 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: The below is correct but a simpler way to say it is this: A square wave contains the fundamental frequency plus every odd harmonic up to infinity. A sine wave contains only the fundamental frequency. It is the up to infinity part that causes all the trouble. And yes it really does go to infinity, at least in theory. but in real life you can't have frequencies so high so without them you can't and don't have a perfect square wave. In other words perfect square wave can't esist in the real world but perfect sine wave, at least in theory could On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: david wrote: Given that slew rate is so critical, why do we distribute sine waves and perform the zero-crossing detection at every target instrument? Magnus made some good points in response to your question. To elaborate a bit: it is much easier to provide a friendly transmission environment for a sine wave (single frequency), and sine waves are less sensitive to imperfections in the transmission environment (impedance discontinuities and mismatches, noise ingress, etc.). Reflections in the transmission environment will put funny steps in what started life as clean square waves or pulses, and differential phase shifts will also mis-shape square waves or pulses. This can even be a problem with sine waves -- see, for example, the NIST paper on the timing effects of distortion in sine wave sources for an example of the sensitivity of sine wave systems to harmonics (Walls and Ascarrunz, The Effect of Harmonic Distortion on Phase Errors in Frequency Distribution and Synthesis) -- but it is much worse with square waves or pulses. Sine wave systems are also much less prone to radiating noise. Anyone who operates one or more frequency standards as well as sensitive RF receivers can testify that sine waves are much less of a hassle. Best regards, Charles __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...
It would attract a lot of attention from people not finding it at the right place on the dial. On 10/26/2012 10:09 PM, Max Robinson wrote: The frequency of 1190 indicates an AM station. I assume you mean 30 Hz. An error of 30 KHz would attract a lot of attention from Charley. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme... I have my 3586b slaved to my Thunderbolt along with a Flex-1500 radio, Racal-Dana counter, Advantest Spectrum analyzer and Gigatronics signal generator. You might be interested to know KEX 1190 in Portland is about 30 kHz low. At least they aren't spewing IBOC lately. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5355 - Release Date: 10/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme...
I've used the HP 3586 for measuring AM carrier frequencies as well as my Tek 495P (both referenced to Rb) for higher frequencies such as air band. Some carriers are dead nuts on while others are quite far off (at least to my mind) although I've never found one outside of its required tolerance. It seems possible to measure pretty accurately with these instruments, at least on AM or CW signals, but not sure the best way for FM. I've played with the HP 53310A but haven't set it up for precise measurements yet, or really studied what all it is capable of. Peter On 10/26/2012 11:10 PM, Orin Eman wrote: Looks like they _might_ have been 30 _Hz_ out... I had to tune to 1188.97 to get a 1kHz beat in upper sideband mode a few minutes ago but they are within 10Hz of where they are supposed to be now - according to my radio anyway (I just checked the radio against WWV at 5MHz and it was less than 10Hz out). Orin, KJ7HQ. On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Hi Not to mention attention from the guy who *should* be 3 channels over … Bob On Oct 26, 2012, at 10:31 PM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote: It would attract a lot of attention from people not finding it at the right place on the dial. On 10/26/2012 10:09 PM, Max Robinson wrote: The frequency of 1190 indicates an AM station. I assume you mean 30 Hz. An error of 30 KHz would attract a lot of attention from Charley. Regards. Max. K 4 O DS. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Woodworking site http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/Woodworking/wwindex.html Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with wood group send a blank email to funwithwood-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB New Modulation scheme... I have my 3586b slaved to my Thunderbolt along with a Flex-1500 radio, Racal-Dana counter, Advantest Spectrum analyzer and Gigatronics signal generator. You might be interested to know KEX 1190 in Portland is about 30 kHz low. At least they aren't spewing IBOC lately. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5355 - Release Date: 10/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5355 - Release Date: 10/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS splitter measurements
A stupid question, but why would you bother testing an antenna? I would think with antennas so cheap and labor expensive it would be far more efficient to make a single site visit and simply replace the suspect antennas with new ones. Peter On 10/11/2012 7:15 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: To test this kind of items, you have to play with DC-blocks and bias-tees. Rather tedious but necessary. I know as at times I have to test questionable GPS antennae that return after lightning strikes. On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 1:09 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Magnus what would the possibility be of measuring an 8 way satellite splitter? The $7 wonders with dc pass through. That looks like a very nice network analyzer you have. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 10/12/2012 12:16 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Please take care that the S14WI is smart: if it doesn't sense a DC current on the antenna port then it reports that to the user ports and I think it can even power off the internal amplifier, this can account for the observed loss instead of the gain. I did consider this. but did not have the time and energy to follow that up at the time. It was only when I got home that I could dig up the datasheet and manual of the S14WI. Didn't want to fry it in the lab. I rather do an incomplete lab quick and safe. I reports warts and all. I'll see if I get time to re-do it tomorrow. Regardless, I want to get things going. More people than me should be able to do this. Cheers, Magnus __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5324 - Release Date: 10/11/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT question about liquid cooling
Perhaps, but unless you plan on just draining the water, you need a liquid to air heat exchanger (LAHE) to cool the water in your loop. Perhaps for a lab it's no big deal, but if you intend to operate where it can get cold (needing glycol) or where there is very limited water supply (remote locations) this matters. I'm installing a 96.5% efficient 9 MVA inverter right now and it needs a minimum of 65 GPM through the LAHE of a 40% glycol solution (glycol moves less heat than water). The heat exchanger is *substantial*, much larger than the items + cold plates it's keeping cool. On 10/3/2012 8:14 PM, J. Forster wrote: It actually takes supprisingly little water flow to dissipate 5 kW. Very roughly 5 kW = 1250 cal/sec (4.18 J/cal) so, for a 1 C degree = 1.25 liters/sec at 50C degrees = 25 mL / sec. = 1.5 L/min. -John == BWIWY (back when I was young) we needed a dummy load for a supercomputer (think Cray YMP size) that drew many many kw. Our test load was about 250' of 3/4 copper tubing coiled at about 12 dia and 1 spacing. The load was varied by changing where the + and - leads were bolted onto the coil with u bolts. The whole mess was cooled by running water through it. A hose barb on the input connected up to the cold water supply and the output was run into a drain. You had too little resistance dialed in when all thy came out the output end was steam. :) Anyway such a test load could be replicated using 1/4 ice machine copper tubing available at the hardware store, some hose clamps, and or hose barbs. Bob On Oct 3, 2012, at 19:35, Tom Harris celephi...@gmail.com wrote: My day job is large industrial power supplies. The test racks have large resistive loads with big fans exhausting to the outside. Cheap simple. Safety is by several strings of temperature cutouts wired in series. We usually get work experience students in to wire them up. Tip: to make a funny valued power resistor, just get the next value up and wrap some nichrome wire around it to bring it down to the correct value. I met an engineer who made a battery charger for one of our submarines. This was tested by putting the load bank in a dumpmaster, and keeping it filled up with water using a firehose! On 4 October 2012 02:01, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: Hello all, Please excuse me for the OT, but since this list is plenty of very knowledgeable colleagues, I'm tempted to ask... I need to cool several resistive loads, in the order of 5kW, and I plan to use a cold plate and a liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger like the Lytron LCS-20, but this unit is quite big, and an overkill (it has 20kW capability). If someone could suggest me a smaller liquid-to-liquid heat exchanger, and preferably a rack mount unit (and share any experience), it would be most welcome. Since this has not too much to do with time and frequency, please answer off list. Thank you very much! Best regards, Javier __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Tom Harris celephi...@gmail.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5308 - Release Date: 10/03/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
Unfortunately it's not that easy. Where I lived for a long time I kept trying to nail down various candidates on their positions on such things like ham radio antennas and it was maddeningly frustrating. I was actually asked to run for office at one point, maybe I should of. If nothing else the town would have been great for hams. Peter On 9/27/2012 10:42 PM, J. Forster wrote: Comming soon to a voting booth near you. YMMV, -John == And don't get me started on Smart Growth, the International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives and Agenda 21. All designed to move us into dense urban living conditions with fixed mass transit and odious rules as to what kind of light bulb we can use, what kind of toilet we can install, construction practices and materials, etc... A lot of people are decrying this as tinfoil hat bleating but if you actually read the proposals and observe places where they have been enacted (Portland, OR), the result is not what one would expect, quite the opposite because nobody wants to live in conditions like that. http://www.synthstuff.com/mt/archives/individual/2012/05/all_hail_our_master mind_overlords_the_iclei.html When I moved to where I am now, the specific request to my realtor was that there be zero CCRs. I am in unincorporated Whatcom County -- the City of Bellingham is a member of ICLEI and talking to local builders, getting a permit for anything besides the County's smart growth initiatives is like pulling teeth. Like John said, these get slipstreamed in with popular measures and not talked about in the press. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 18:17 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? Absolutely! Often as not, a bunch of new rules and regulations are bundled with some popular measure. The popular measure gets the press, the rest of the package gets ignored. That happens at all levels of government. Purposely so. -John === HI …. and if you believe that these sort of restrictions are passed one at a time locally.. not so much. The easy way is for your local government to simply adopt an up to date package of rules. Rarely do any of those voting understand what in the package. Rarely does the vote get anything more than passing notice in the local community. Bob On Sep 27, 2012, at 8:39 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: If you are under the impression living in an older, built up area will be a defense against those with a Martha Stewart fetish, you are wrong. -John Well, that's what I love about the SF bay area- lots of old neighborhoods that didn't have all these silly restrictions in place when they were built. There are the usual CCRs, like I can raise chickens, but not cows, but it doesn't mandate what three colors you can paint your house, or the window coverings you can have or how long you can park your car in the driveway. Yes, things can change, but at least it's not in place in the beginning- and we can monitor implementation of any changes, at least in Palo Alto and Sunnyvale (where we have neighborhood groups that monitor such things, specifically because we like the status quo). I'm sure some or all of the newer developments do have silly restrictions, I just would never buy into one. -Dave - Original Message - From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:47:15 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? Earth to Dave: Sometimes laws and regulations change years after you buy a piece of property or do something perfectly legal. Nobody is safe whenever (Congress, Agency, State Legislature, Town Council, governing body, or whatever) is in session. YMMV, -John === These are amoung other reasons why I will never buy a house in a development or with a HOA. -Dave - Original Message - From: Bob Camp li...@rtty.us To: j...@quikus.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:36:23 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? Hi and indeed many of the likely hiding places are also on the list of things you are not supposed to do. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:20 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss? Vent pipes are not usually 20-30 feet tall. -John = Which for all intents and purposes means nothing that looks like an antenna to John Q. Public. What if your GPS antenna looked like a vent pipe? or a Bird House? It may be difficult to
Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather on a Laptop
Most recent bill in MA: Supply is 6.72 cents/kWh and delivery is 6.60 cents/kWn for a total of 13.32 cents/kWh. This is much less than I was paying in NY where it was hovering around 30 cents/kWh (I remember 32 one summer month). Peter On 9/27/2012 6:10 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Chris wrote: After some measuring my general run of thumb is Anything you leave plugged in and running 24x7 will cost you triple digits of dollars (at least) over a year Well, that's a lot of anything. There are 8760 hours in a year, so a 1 kW load will consume 8760 kWH per year. We pay about $0.08 per kWH here, so a 1 kW load running 24/7 costs just over $700/year (= $0.70 per W per year). That puts the three digit point ($100/yr) at ~143 W. I leave a number of LED bulbs running 24/7, which cost ~$2.80/yr for 4 W, ~$5.60/yr for 8 W, and ~$8.40/yr for 12 W. Even a new 50 flat-screen television (119 W) would only cost ~$83/yr if left on 24/7, and my quad-core workstation with its huge display would cost only ~$250. In another post you mentioned $0.21/kWH (you must be in California?), so adjust all of these by a factor of 2.625 for your location -- but I think the service rates in most of the US are closer to ours than to yours). Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5293 - Release Date: 09/26/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] BPSK Receiver GPS Antenna siting
Until I move into the house I'm getting I'm in a rental condo where absolutely no antennas are permitted. It's a building and I'm on the 4th floor so have done things like ran a very thin wire out one window to a far one, a wire with a weight nearly to the ground, a rather long wire (#26 stranded copperweld) to a far fence (at night), the Tbolt antenna clamped to my railing, and a mil type multisection vertical clamped to said railing (also at night). Been here for a couple of years and nobody's said a word, yet I've seen letters go out to everyone about christmas decorations that were visible through windows. The roof is locked but if I were to live here longer I would find a way up there and feed a coax or three through the 1 PVC conduit which carries the thermostat cable up to the A/C unit up there for my unit and have a blast with it. Peter On 9/27/2012 7:20 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi At least in my back yard, a 6' tall tripod would be very noticeable from a number of directions. There are many others in similar situations. If I were to interpret the restrictions literally as written, an antenna that was inside the house, but visible through an open window is also a violation. Bob On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:11 PM, johncr...@aol.com wrote: Various comments - Hal mentioned SNR for the scheme I suggested. A PLL can be a coherent demodulator of arbitrary bandwidth. Thus the PLL at the output of the doubler can have a small bandwidth since at that point there is no PSK, it having been removed by the doubler. So given a stable VCXO you can probably get down to 1 Hz and thereby achieve a good SNR. There is a lot of stuff out there on phase tracking receivers that do exactly that. You know the frequency so the loop does not have to search far and the BW can be increased for acquisition and closed up for tracking. On writing reams of code - my point was that it is not required to used the admittedly more powerful software techniques to do this job - I noted that one reason to write reams of code is for the fun of it, this is after all a hobby. GPS Antenna Siting - Lets not make this so hard. Mine is at 6 ft elevation and is blocked to an elevation angle of 20 to 30 degrees by a house within 15 ft and a forest of trees. I have room and no restrictions but I also have severe thunderstorms - so the house plays lightning protect for the antenna. My T bolt tracks a Rb to better than 1e-12 over 24 hours with no serious 10 MHz phase bumps as plotted on a strip chart recorder. So - Put your antenna at 6 ft in back yard. Start out on a photo tripod - who is gonna notice? set up a t bolt at EL=5 AMU=0 Damping = 1.2 and Time Constant = 100 sec. get the t bolt manual get Tbolt monitor get Lady Heather and read all that stuff. Run Lady Heather antenna survey (command SAS) for at least two days - you get a map of signal level in dBc vs elevation Reset the Tbolt elevation mask to reject anything that is shown as blocked using the signal level map. Likewise experiment with the AMU setting to reject the weak = poor signals. Mine works good with AMU all the way up to 10 as fewer good satellites are better than lots of weak ones. The satellites are in high orbits so masking those below 25 degrees is OK and the AMU sets the acceptable signal level - at AMU 10 my setup throws out those below about 40 dBc - the strong guys go up to 50. This is a function of you antenna performance so some experimentation is required. -73 john k6iql ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5295 - Release Date: 09/27/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Why the fuss?
Title restrictions, once put into place, can be extremely tricky to remove. On 9/27/2012 7:36 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The gotcha isn't the neighbors (who you can negotiate with) it's what ever entity enforces the title restrictions. With the recent dip in sales, that may be the original developer, still there a decade later …. Bob On Sep 27, 2012, at 7:30 PM, David davidwh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:59:48 -0400, Jeff Stevens j...@mossycup.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: What do hams do in that environment? Hams either avoid HOAs and deed restricted property or they live with the restrictions by placing their antennas in attics and other inconspicuous locations. There have been attempts by hams to get the FCC to somehow invalidate or limit deed restrictions and HOA rules which prohibit antennas and towers which effectively prevent operation of amateur stations but so far the FCC has steered clear. While the federal government DOES claim some limited preemption of local zoning and municipal ordinances (PRB-1), I believe the FCC has chosen to stay away from meddling with deed restrictions and HOA rules preferring to consider them voluntary private contracts. According to hams in some parts of the country, however, they are far from voluntary as in some areas so much of the residential real estate is deed restricted or subject to HOAs that there is no practical alternative. With that said, I believe this year congress actually appropriated a few $100k to study the impact of deed restrictions and HOAs on amateur operations. -Jeff W7WWA I have heard of cases where the HAM settled for hidden or attic antenna installations and the resulting interference with their neighbor's electronics was used to bargain for a more reasonable rule. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5295 - Release Date: 09/27/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] WWVB Format Ownership
Not quite sure about the analog to health care, but certainly a transmission being public domain doesn't mean much if the only possible way to use it is proprietary. Sounds like something Microsoft would strive for. On 9/27/2012 9:57 PM, WB6BNQ wrote: The transmitted format on WWVB (and for that matter on the WWV HF stations) is owned by the government and thus the PEOPLE. As stated to me, John Lowe (WWVB Broadcast Manager) claims he is the person who has designed and is implementing this new broadcast format. Because he is a paid employee of the government (i.e., us PEOPLE) his new protocol is thus, presumably, unencumbered and free to use by anyone. What I find interesting is how a functional system is completely shit canned in favor of a new and yet proven process; particularly seeing as how no means of utilizing said new (and still being tweaked) modulation existed at the beginning of the design process. Obviously, the process was driven by external forces for the total benefit of those external forces. In other words, the benefit was not for we the people per se even though that is the stated reason. Conceptually, what Xtendwave seems to be doing is designing a detection demodulation process that they feel is unique and thus eligible for a patent. If that is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then more power to them. However, if they are attempting to construct their patent verbiage to exclude others from creating or using any other means and thus having sole use of the WWVB format, then one should question the propriety of the whole process including the WWVB staff. If the previous paragraph is the aim, then it is a parallel to a certain medical program where non participation is met with a hefty penalty. Here the hefty penalty would be having to buy the Xtendwave receiving apparatus in order to use said modulation process. Xtendwave would be hard pressed to go after all the John Doe hobbyists from both a monetary and political point of view. In the commercial market that would be a different case. Someone on the list posed the question of a Public comment period. YES, that would have been nice. BUT, such an action would have been disastrous for the project, if it really made a difference, because those who would bother to respond would likely be negative to the concept. That certainly wouldn't do, so instead it is done in quasi secret and sprung on the unsuspecting as a done deal. Clearly, DO IT and ask for forgiveness afterwards. So much for government transparency ! BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5295 - Release Date: 09/27/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] BPSK Receiver GPS Antenna siting
Flagpoles need caps, right? A GPS antenna would be just perfect. And a fiberglass flagpole could hide a significant HF vertical! On 9/27/2012 10:24 PM, Randy D. Hunt wrote: Put up a flagpole. Randy, KI6WAS ___ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Reducing lab noise with LED lighting.
I've seen lots of halogen power supplies which use cheap switchers too! On 9/16/2012 8:55 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The thing that makes the CFL's nasty for lab use are the cheap little switchers built into them. Conventional LED lights also have cheap little switchers in them. Doing them with a 30% efficient linear regulator gets you back to halogen type lumens per watt... Bob On Sep 16, 2012, at 8:09 PM, Tom Knox act...@hotmail.com wrote: In this green era here in the USA there is a big push toward CFL lighting. Problem is I can see my CFL lighting on my PN measurements and other equipment. I am finding it is very noisy so I have started researching cost effective LED lighting and was amazed at what is available. On eBay there are 10 to 100 watt raw chips for $2-25.00 but that is equal to about 5 times the lumen of incandescent lighting. I was going to try building the heat sinks and supply into my existing bench fixtures. I will post more info soon. Thomas Knox ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5271 - Release Date: 09/16/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Reducing lab noise with LED lighting.
12 volt Halogen from a big transformer run from a Variac if you want dimming. As long as the Variac brushes aren't arcing that setup will create zero noise. On 9/16/2012 9:55 PM, Mike S wrote: On 9/16/2012 8:09 PM, Tom Knox wrote: In this green era here in the USA there is a big push toward CFL lighting. Problem is I can see my CFL lighting on my PN measurements and other equipment. I am finding it is very noisy Run 12 VDC lighting, or hydrocarbon (NG/propane/naptha, which is noisy in a different way. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5271 - Release Date: 09/16/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fedex Was Be aware of test equipment seller
That is such a large barrier to entry for someone like me that I would never be able to move to the UK! Sep 12, 2012 09:20:16 AM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On 12 September 2012 03:03, Mark Spencer wrote: Nope.. In my experience importing typical time nuts items into Canada Fedex in Canada charges a signficant brokerage fee that is typically many times higher than fees charged by other carriers Since I have the paperwork in front of me, as I need to pay it, here is the fees from DHL on a 20 GHz vector network analyzer I imported from the USA to the UK. Duty A-L-0.00 VAT A-L-2099.46 Other levey A-L-0.00 Customs services A-L-0.00 Administration fee: A-L-41.99 Total A-L-2141.45 Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises oneBay
I've had FedEx destroy packages. One was so bad the driver told me he didn't even want to accept it at loading but thought I should see it before sending it back. The seller told me they gave him a really hard time and wanted to deny any responsibility as he had packaged using a used box. Even if a carton is marked re-usable, do not destroy they will try using that as an excuse. I got another unit and never heard if he ever collected on the first one. Lately I have had better luck with the USPS, but I think it varies by location and other factors beyond our control. Peter Sep 11, 2012 11:38:35 AM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: After experiencing UPS issues, I now specify Fed-X where possible. The outside condition of the containers even look better when delivered. These people seem to care more about what they are doing. I once had a large ~150 lb low-pass RF filter that arrived by Fed-X freight that was delivered by two very svelte young blondes. They babied that crate every step of the way into the building. Was also a pleasure to watch them work! If you have a chance, you should visit one of the UPS shipping test labs where customers are supposed to take their prototype packaging to have it tested to see if it will stand up to the rigors of UPS shipping. Your jaw will drop when you see what they put the packages through. Greg On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 04:29:29 -0700, jim s the observation about UPS is especially true, they will try and say anything to escape paying. Unless they loose the package expect an argument on anything, they are thieves. Nothing to do but avoid them on shipping. Actually freight or Postal is the best choice. For freight a professional crate is your best protection, and my best luck has been with postal people who don't really care if they beat a claim if it is not patently BS. YMMV. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises oneBay
It all works in UPS's favor. Larger, more robust packaging adds to weight and dimensional charges. The incentives are all there for them to be as rough as they can get away with. Why take extra care and go slower when you just blame the customer, and win by getting more money in the process? I appreciate the problem of improperly packaged goods, just pointing out the financial incentive angle. I once sold a receiver and shipped it UPS. I used multiple wraps of heavy bubble wrap in a box, then that weird military cushioning which is like scouring pads, inside a double walled outer box. You could drop this thing 20 feet. But it didn't survive being run over by a truck! Tire marks and all. UPS denied the claim because the inside box was previously used, even though not shipped, it had labels from my company, and they defined that as used. So yeah I got myself a bad attitude towards them. Peter Sep 11, 2012 05:15:48 PM, jwsm...@jwsss.com wrote: On 9/11/2012 8:37 AM, Gregory Muir wrote: If you have a chance, you should visit one of the UPS shipping test labs where customers are supposed to take their prototype packaging to have it tested to see if it will stand up to the rigors of UPS shipping. Your jaw will drop when you see what they put the packages through. Greg I worked on a project for MPI which was the tape division of Control Data on the Sentinel tape drive, which was an 8 form factor quarter inch cartridge drive. About the size of an 8 floppy. Part of the entire engineering project which had to pass successfully as much as moving tape and transferring data was a mandatory 3 point UPS test. You had to send the package out of Valley Forge, Pa, to the Bay area, to Atlanta, and back to Valley Forge, and at the end of the trip pass what they called DVT. It took them two tries to get the packaging to survive the UPS test. They had a very nice, easy to open but rugged structure inside with braces on parts that had to be removed before operation (motor was heavy enough to have broken on one pass). and then it was suspended in a hard foam floating arrangement in an outer tri wall box. They really wanted you to save the container if you had to reship It. Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Fedex Was Be aware of test equipment seller
It's so silly. Yesterday I was flying a small plane near the Canadian border and even from a couple thousand feet there is no change visible in the surface of the Earth from one side to another. It is such an artificial distinction, and all of a sudden these people who are supposed to represent us erect these barriers and then demand all sorts of paperwork and money when all we want to do is enjoy our hobby. Sep 11, 2012 07:40:17 PM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: With regards to Fedex I have a signifcant issue with the brokerage fees that Fedex in Canada charges to deal with customs clearance issues and collect taxes and duties. I now usually decline to purchase items from sellers who insist on using Fedex. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller
Our experience is that lately their service is turning to crap astonishingly fast. Examples: * An envelope of papers sent morning delivery not showing up. Calling, they say accidentally it was put in for afternoon delivery. But, nobody there in the afternoon and even though the envelope was specifically set up to not require signature or recipient there, the driver refused to leave it, even marking the door slip that he would NOT leave it even with a signed slip due to security concerns and it would not be available until the next day, at a depot 30 minutes away. The paperwork was resent USPS express mail and arrived the next day no problem. * Several cartons of rush order parts did not arrive at our plant. Upon calling, they said the shipper's account had been closed. We said it was shipped with our labels on our acocunt. They said sorry, they'll deliver, but there will be a two day delay. It took over a week to get the parts and our customer was furious. They refused to give us any credit. * A number of packages have been going lost and their tracking system is useless. All it shows is movement to some hub and then nothing. When calling, they have a little more info, adding it appears to be lost. * A number of packages getting sent to the complete opposite coast, then going lost for about 3-5 days before mysteriously appearing at our dock. * Driver just plain not showing up on some days so our outgoing packages just sit. And that's not even counting the overseas expedited shipping which is nearly useless. I suspect the bean counters got wind of an operation which was too much better than all the competition and figured they'd pull some profit out by hiring monkeys and other shortcuts. Peter Sep 11, 2012 06:33:08 PM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Gary wrote: Fedex ground is awful. Fedex air is fine. That is our experience, as well. It may vary from region to region -- the FedEx ground service uses contractors for local delivery. Our contractor seems to take pride in damaging as many items as badly as possible. I have witnessed them throw a heavy package from inside the truck to crash on the pavement (dropping from waist height inside the truck, so maybe 5 feet to the ground), then rolling the package (the box, I mean -- no hand truck) across the street, over the curb, up the walkway, and up the front stoop. We always specify no Fedex Ground before paying and cancel transactions when sellers will not agree. (For similar reasons, we specify no USPS for anything heavy -- leaving just UPS, which we have found to be the best of the ground carriers. YMMV and probably will.) FedEx Express is, perhaps, the best of the carriers in our experience, but that ethic does not seem to have begun to seep into the Ground operation. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay
Don't screw around with the seller. It is his responsibility to get you what was described and in the condition shown. Clearly he failed at this. It is agonizing and annoying to jump through the ebay and paypal hoops but with photos and the copies of emails you have an excellent case. There is a very high probability they will rule in your favor, and since the seller doesn't want to work with you, you can rightfully claim you have tried to do everything possible to negotiate but have been rebuffed. I have had quite a few items arrive badly damaged. Most sellers would work with me, but those who didn't got a worse deal from ebay. Hang in there and be patient, let the system work for you. Peter Sep 10, 2012 07:12:38 PM, time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On 10 September 2012 23:55, Tom Knox wrote: Hi Dave; Hi Tom, I would also recommend opening a Not As Described through eBay. I have done. Most shippers require a minimum of three inches padding for any claim. Even a rock requires three inches so I am sure a PayPal or ebay dispute will force the seller to make good. I wish I had your confidence! I can't find anything in their rules that cover damage caused by inadequate shipping. It seems buyer protection extends to the seller having to pay the original shipping cost, but not the cost to the buyer of shipping it back. This seems most unfair to me. It's not a big deal on small light items, but shipping heavy items internationally is not cheap. I've also had to pay inport duties and VAT on this, which comes to a US equivalent of around $220. I doubt I will be able to recover that. I that fails many of the part on that generation HPitem are universal and should be easy to locate. I have offered to accept a partial refund and try to fix it myself, but he does not want that. Good Luck; Thank you. I might need it. Thomas Knox Cheers Thomas, Dave, G8WRB. Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:46:01 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay On 10 September 2012 23:24, Tom Knox wrote: I had someone ship me a calibrator several years ago and he assured me he was a great packer and had a box that fit it perfectly. He was right the box fit perfectly, no padding required. Is the unit repairable? What parts are required? Good Luck Thomas Knox It's annoying. I don't know how big/heavy your calibrator was. But I think in future I will discuss with sellers how they intend to ship high value items heavy items. Lots of HP test equipment, which I'm sure many time-nuts own, is quite heavy. Shiping that requires some skill in packing it. This is not something I have given much thought to in the past, but I sure will in future. Not that I expect UPS would pay out on this anyway, but the seller undervalued the goods to $1000, which no doubt reduced the shipping charge, but means it would be impossible to make a claim. Dave Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:16:55 +0100 From: david.kir...@onetel.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Be aware of test equipment seller orzel-enterprises on eBay I hope the list admin does not mind this email, but I think it will be useful to any time nut buying test equipment from eBay. orzel-enterprises sells electronic test equipment on eBay. I would advise anyone to think twice before purchasing from him. This is how he shipped a vector network analyzer and S-parameter test set which I won on an auction for $2750. It was shipped from the USA to the UK. http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/damaged-VNA-by-inadequa te-packaging/badly-shipped-8753A-and-85046A.jpg Note the box is far too small, and so obviously both units suffered damage. He takes no reponsibility for this, and originally expected me to ship it back at my expense, and still pay the shipping charges from the USA. So I'd pay for two international shipments, as well as customs duties. After I pointed out Paypal would expect him to pay the shipping to me, he has agreed to refund the USA - UK shipping charges, but he still expects me to pay the UK - USA shipping costs. I object to this, since it was his total stupidity the thing not damaged. I don't see why I should pay for someone elses stupidity. Dave.
Re: [time-nuts] 60 Hz line quirks, anybody recognize this stuff?
I concur with John, the grid doesn't do that. To me it looks like line noise and/or a software issue is causing your setup to give false results.I have seen a lot of instrumentation get fooled by line noise, especially around zero crossings. Measuring the power line accurately in the presence of all the variations and possible kinds of noise and phase shifts turns out to be more difficult than it seems at first. Peter On 9/1/2012 9:30 AM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, you have an instrumentation issue. I don't think the power grid can do anything like that. YMMV, -John === The context is using the 60 Hz line for timing. I'm feeding 60 Hz from a wall wart transformer into a modem control signal that the kernel PPS stuff watches. Mostly, it works as expected, but occasionally, it picks or drops a cycle. In order to understand what was going on, I fed the same signal into the audio input and setup a job to capture the audio. Here is an example of a pick: http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a-pick.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a0.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Aug-09-a1.png OK, that somewhat makes sense. Something happened several days ago. I used to get picks/drops rarely, say ballpark of 1 a month. Now I'm getting 10 or 20 per day. So I started looking closer. I'm now seeing stuff like this. I've got lots and lots of examples. I added a second PC with different hardware. It sees the same stuff. Does anybody recognize this? http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-a0.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-b0.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-c0.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-d0.png http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/time-nuts/line/2012-Sep-01-e0.png -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5240 - Release Date: 09/01/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter
Fair Radio is perfectly happy to have something sit there for decades figuring they'll get their price eventually. In this case they want $750 for them: https://www.fairradio.com/catalog.php?mode=viewitemitem=2746 I've been there a few times with a wad of cash and couldn't get them to move by anything significant so ended up leaving with more cash than gear. Probably for the best anyway. Peter On 7/28/2012 10:31 PM, Tom Holmes wrote: For what it's worth, I was at Fair Radio in Lima, OH on Thursday, and they had three of the 600 ohm 'B' models on the floor. Don't know the condition or the asking price, but if you are interested you should be able to get the contact info via Google. They have had these boxes for quite a while as they were there on my last visit about three years ago, so they might be interested in making them go away. Tom Holmes, N8ZM Tipp City, OH EM79 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586 Questions
It was reasonably easy to get to the input connector to replace it. I haven't seen the firmware source code but would be interested if it became available to play with. Some HP instruments used proprietary CPUs (or nanoprocessors) which might be tricky to play with due to their instruction set not being published. Peter On 7/23/2012 11:25 PM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: Now that I have my new [30 year old] HP 3586 making measurements over the GPIB bus I have a few questions. Setting AVErage makes measurements take about three seconds. Is there a way to control the number of samples averaged? How difficult is it to open up the 3586 to replace the input connector with a BNC connector? Is there a way to update and/or hack the firmware? Is source code available? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter
Hmmm! Subpart H--Rules Applicable to All Broadcast StationsSec. 73.1545 Carrier frequ ency departure tolerances.(a) AM stations. The departure of the carrier frequenc y formonophonic transmissions or center frequency for stereophonictransmissions may not exceed plus-minus 20 Hz from the assignedfrequency. On 07/20/12, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469Rc...@omen.com wrote: KEX 1190 in Portland Oregon has been 30 Hz low for several hours. The first field is Unix time, seconds since 1970 GMT. The 3586B is using the Thunderbolt's 10 MHz for its frequency reference. 1342774022 -45.416000 119.10 1342774112 -45.774000 119.10 1342799196 -48.755000 119.10 1342799282 -48.707000 119.10 1342800646 -48.945000 119.10 1342800731 -48.912000 119.00 1342800818 -48.946000 119.00 1342800904 -49.013000 119.10 1342800989 -48.855000 119.10 1342801076 -78.562000 1189970.30 --- dropping off the sides of the 20 Hz filter! 1342801163 -78.582000 1189970.30 1342801251 -78.594000 1189970.30 1342801338 -78.464000 1189970.30 1342801427 -78.509000 1189970.30 1342808721 -78.673000 1189970.40 The liberal talker on 620 is 7.1 Hz high. KUIK 1360 is about 5 low. On 07/19/2012 06:12 AM, Lester Veenstra wrote: Hi Chuck I have number of these Make great precision receivers Use it on the Thunderbolt, and turn on the 0.1 Hz counter to see if WWF is on freq. HI More interesting game is to look at foreign broadcast carriers to see who are running professional plants locked to a standard, and who are the cheap outfits that somewhere the right freq. 73 Les Lester B Veenstra MA~YCM K1YCM W8YCM [1]les...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: 5 Shrine Club Drive HC84 Box 89C Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.33675 N 78.9823527 W Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 Corrected US cell +1-304-790-9192 Changed to permanent number Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. -Original Message- From: [2]time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [[3]mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R Sent: 19 July 2012 02:22 To: time-nuts Subject: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter Got one of these massive (by today's standards) beasts the other day. It has the option 003. Quite the light show when it powers up. I have its external reference daisy chained with a radio and two other instruments sucking 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt. I have not decided what to do with the ATT front panel input. Should I get a BNC adapter for it? Or replace it with a BNC connector? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [4]c...@omen.com [5]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [6]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:les...@veenstras.com 2. mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 3. mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 4. mailto:c...@omen.com 5. http://www.omen.com/ 6. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter
I have one of these as well, interesting instrument. I used it with an adapter for a while then one day got tired of that and found a nice BNC from my bin which fit beautifully and got rid of the weird connector. It's much nicer this way. At these frequencies the connector type is based on usability convenience and for me the BNC was just a lot easier to deal with. Perhaps the day that wiggling the adapter made the readings move a few tenths of a dB convinced me. Peter On 7/19/2012 2:22 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: Got one of these massive (by today's standards) beasts the other day. It has the option 003. Quite the light show when it powers up. I have its external reference daisy chained with a radio and two other instruments sucking 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt. I have not decided what to do with the ATT front panel input. Should I get a BNC adapter for it? Or replace it with a BNC connector? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter
If their AGC was better they would also make reasonable high sensitivity receivers. You are right; it is amazing to see how far off some broadcast carriers really are. Peter On 07/19/12, Lester Veenstrales...@veenstras.com wrote: Hi Chuck I have number of these Make great precision receivers Use it on the Thunderbolt, and turn on the 0.1 Hz counter to see if WWF is on freq. HI More interesting game is to look at foreign broadcast carriers to see who are running professional plants locked to a standard, and who are the cheap outfits that somewhere the right freq. 73 Les Lester B Veenstra MA~YCM K1YCM W8YCM [1]les...@veenstras.com US Postal Address: 5 Shrine Club Drive HC84 Box 89C Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.33675 N 78.9823527 W Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 Corrected US cell +1-304-790-9192 Changed to permanent number Guam Cell: +1-671-929-8141 Jamaica: +1-876-352-7504 This e-mail and any documents attached hereto contain confidential or privileged information. The information is intended to be for use only by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this e-mail or any documents attached hereto is prohibited. -Original Message- From: [2]time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [[3]mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R Sent: 19 July 2012 02:22 To: time-nuts Subject: [time-nuts] HP 3586B Selective Level Meter Got one of these massive (by today's standards) beasts the other day. It has the option 003. Quite the light show when it powers up. I have its external reference daisy chained with a radio and two other instruments sucking 10 MHz from my Thunderbolt. I have not decided what to do with the ATT front panel input. Should I get a BNC adapter for it? Or replace it with a BNC connector? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [4]c...@omen.com [5]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [6]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [8]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [9]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:les...@veenstras.com 2. mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 3. mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 4. mailto:c...@omen.com 5. http://www.omen.com/ 6. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 8. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 9. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
What caused me to pose the original question which started this thread was that I noticed that the correction required very strongly tracked the operation of my HVAC system operation. Since the Thunderbolt is so sensitive to ambient temperature and air movement, I thought that getting it into a stable environment would be a good thing. Now I suppose one could put it into a highly insulated container with a bidirectional Peltier temperature controller (I have some larger examples of those), but really was wondering if there was an easier way than that. On 07/13/12, Azelio Borianiazelio.bori...@screen.it wrote: Peltier cooler on top of the OCXO or on top of the TBolt? On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [1]c...@omen.comwrote: How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [2]c...@omen.com [3]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- [4]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [5]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts[6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/list info/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [7]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [8]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:c...@omen.com 2. mailto:c...@omen.com 3. http://www.omen.com/ 4. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 5. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** 6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 7. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 8. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
Oh, I have no vibrations from lorries, I'm all the way across the ocean. ;) My thought was to mount it in a constant temperature enclosure via thermal insulating standoffs. The enclosure could be a PID controlled Peltier CPU cooler run box, something COTS pretty much. Peter On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com wrote: Apply the Peltier to the cabinet. Or put the Tbolt in a fridge. Mount the Tbolt on a granite slab inside the cabinet so lorries won't affect it. On 07/13/2012 04:55 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Peltier cooler on top of the OCXO or on top of the TBolt? On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.comwrote: How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
What temperature does it try to maintain internally for the OCXO? If the external temperature is too close or over that temperature the internal regulation loop won't work. On 07/13/12, Bob Campli...@rtty.us wrote: Hi There's no real need to keep the TBolt at / below room temperature. A constant temperature in the 40 to 50C range works just fine. There's nothing inside that's going to take a major reliability hit from that sort of temperature. Bob On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:17 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Oh, I have no vibrations from lorries, I'm all the way across the ocean. ;) My thought was to mount it in a constant temperature enclosure via thermal insulating standoffs. The enclosure could be a PID controlled Peltier CPU cooler run box, something COTS pretty much. Peter On Jul 13, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [1]c...@omen.com wrote: Apply the Peltier to the cabinet. Or put the Tbolt in a fridge. Mount the Tbolt on a granite slab inside the cabinet so lorries won't affect it. On 07/13/2012 04:55 AM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Peltier cooler on top of the OCXO or on top of the TBolt? On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [2]c...@omen.comwrote: How about a thermostatically controlled Peltier cooler? -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [3]c...@omen.com [4]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- [5]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [6]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nuts[7]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/list info/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [8]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [9]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R [10]c...@omen.com [11]www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [12]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [13]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [14]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [15]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [16]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [17]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:c...@omen.com 2. mailto:c...@omen.com 3. mailto:c...@omen.com 4. http://www.omen.com/ 5. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 6. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** 7. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 8. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 9. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 10. mailto:c...@omen.com 11. http://www.omen.com/ 12. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 13. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 14. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 15. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts 16. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 17. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt mounting
I would like to put my Thunderbolt into a chassis with power supply and would like to have the most favorable thermal environment since the unit is somewhat temperature dependent. I was thinking of mounting the unit in insulating material, but am worried it will get too hot to the point the temp control loop won't work properly. Has anyone experimented with this and found the best solution? I would like to remove the strong dependence on room temperature that I have currently. Peter On Jul 11, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Gary Fiber gfi...@comcast.net wrote: I purchased a Trimble Thunderbolt. Is there a web page or does someone have a set of written steps to set up the Thunderbolt? There are quite a few adjustments available for it and it makes sense to me not to reinvent the wheel. I have googled and got some results using Tboltmon. Have tried Lady Heather, but have to figure out just how to utilize that program. Have the Thunderbolt, a Mean Well 60 watt supply, have I hope is a decent antenna arriving Friday. Am intending on using the 19 MHz output for a time base for my HP-8935A and HP-8656B. Gary Fiber K8IZ Sent from my iPad ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Phase modulation detection/NIST plan
Any possibility of using the decoded signal to un-do the modulation and feed the reconstituted signal to the older receiver? On 7/8/2012 12:56 PM, paul wrote: Ei Sorry if I have your name reversed. By taking this approach it eliminates the ability to use wwvb as a frequency reference because it destroys that traceability. Thats what we are trying to preserve. Or at least re-establish for the older phase measuring receivers. Regards Paul On 7/8/2012 12:10 PM, Tofurk Ei wrote: If the changeover you are talking about is this one: http://www.nist.gov/pml/newsletter/radio.cfm as a proof of concept a DVB-T dongle/upconverter combo could almost certainly handle PM easily to output whatever it encodes, when paired with gnuradio.. The RTL2832U chip might also be able to handle some low band signals directly, using direct sampling. No upconverter. Regardless, then the data would be fed into gnuradio - the gnuradio developers GUI is called gnuradio companion It has a nifty way of doing this kind of thing, one builds a flow graph where the actual demodulation is simply laid out graphically and tested. When everything works to one's satisfaction the file is saved and it gets compiled - then it can run - its basically a python script. If the modulation scheme is public, I think you can be almost certain that gnuradio might be quite useful to rapidly design a tool to demodulate it. Perhaps very quickly. For the money, one really couldn't hope to beat the flexibility of this combination in any other manner. If I were interested in trying this I would join the gnuradio mailing list and ask there. Perhaps the answer is surprisingly simple. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Paywall Rant (was Re: Spoofing GPS)
Very true, and in some cases (Texas case) a judge ruled that an employee that left a firm can never work in that same field again for the rest of their life due to both positive and negative knowledge. On 06/28/12, J. Forsterj...@quikus.com wrote: Essentially today, if you work for somebody, they own you. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] [OT] Paywall Rant (was Re: Spoofing GPS)
I support that law. What a waste of talent if bright stars in advancing fields are snuffed out! Interestingly, I once heard it mentioned (in a business roundtable meeting) that this was one of the anti-business laws which must be strongly fought against. You are right though, just because there is precedent does not stop companies and their lawyers from inserting such clauses into their terms of employment, most of which are non-negotiable for engineers. The question is, how many individuals can afford going to court, both in terms of cost as well as time? And courts are unpredictable, so you might even lose and be destroyed financially. Thus, specific laws codifying such employee's rights are great. Perhaps such anti business laws played a part in the high-tech buildup in CA. Peter On 06/28/12, Jim Luxjim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 6/28/12 6:38 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: Very true, and in some cases (Texas case) a judge ruled that an employee that left a firm can never work in that same field again for the rest of their life due to both positive and negative knowledge. Not in California, where such agreements are specifically prohibited by law. And, for that matter, the later legal strategy calling out inevitable disclosure (that is, that if you work in the same field you will inevitably disclose something that is trade secret) has been held invalid in a variety of courts. This doesn't stop company A from threatening to sue Company B who wants to hire someone from Company A, but it turns the threat into nothing, if Company B's lawyer writes a nice letter citing the half dozen or so cases to Company A's lawyer. In effect telling A, pound sand with your stupid extortion It *is* still effective in the old boys network.. executive from company A mentions to executive from company B, you know, if you hire good ol' Bob, it could get sticky, legally. You sure you want to take that on. Of such are things like illegal anti-poaching agreements made and of such are consent decrees issued. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] !0 MHz standard frequency intruder
Just make up a loop and use a compass to get a bearing from a few places. That should place it close enough a local member could do the same by driving around and nail it. I did that to find a CODAR transmitter. On 6/28/2012 9:48 PM, David McGaw wrote: You know, if one could get accurate delays from a number of locations, one could triangulate its location - just thinking. :-) David On 6/28/12 9:40 PM, David McGaw wrote: Others are hearing it too: http://www.hard-core-dx.com/article.php?story=20120617111532649mode=print 73, David N1HAC On 6/28/12 7:33 PM, EB4APL wrote: Hello, I'm receiving, maybe from less than a month, a new station on 10 MHz which claims it is an experimental time signals station. The weird thing is that they transmit music between the minute time marks, heavily interfering with the other standard stations which share this frequency. Currently I receive there WWV, the Italian official standard frequency and time station IBF and its Brazilian counterpart PPR (BTW PPR broadcasts local time instead of UTC). They transmit continuously 24 hours a day. Every 15 minutes a female voice says that this is an experimental time station, gives a web page and its locator. While I agree that anybody could run an standard frequency and time station, given official license from their local authorities (and after international coordination, I suppose), I think this is a truly pirate station because among their weird programming , I also notice: - Their carrier is currently - 4 Hz off. - The second ticks are offset enough to be perceived by ear with respect to known standards. The transmission is in USB with full carrier (I don't have the designation on hand). The format is: - The whole sequence begins at multiples of 15 minutes. - At second 52 they transmit something like a 2 second burst in FSK (It can be a fake signal without any useful information). - At second 54 begins 1 sec ticks. - Tick at second 59 is omitted, then only the tick for sec 0 is transmitted. - After the 0 sec tick a male voice announces the hour and minute. The voice has an intonation like a news or sports speaker. - A female voice makes an announcement about being an experimental time station, gives a web page and its locator. . The ticks are discontinued and replace by music. - The first music in a 15 minute cycle is from Peer Gynt, it is replaced with other music the next minutes. - The next minutes lack the female voice announcement until next cycle begins. All speaking is done in Italian language. If I copied the locator correctly, the transmitter location is near Pisa, Italy. Did anybody noticed this transmission? I receive it in Madrid, Spain. Regards, Ignacio, EB4APL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5099 - Release Date: 06/28/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Spoofing GPS
Too little, too late. Iran proved they could get through their supposedly encrypted system (yeah, right, encrypted). Civil air patrol uses volunteers to fly border missions for under $100 an hour, which is far cheaper than those drones. But it doesn't make the drone manufacturers any money. You may ask, why not just use GPS spoofing to make airliners crash? Well, for one they have multi-sensor navigation systems. The drones could do that too. But they also have live pilots who can take over and fly even if all nav systems go out (unless totally in IMC in which case it can get dicey). Oh, wait, they took down LORAN (although maybe coming back!) and want to cut back on VORs (very bad idea). Maybe I shouldn't say this, wouldn't be terribly hard to do a multi-platform spoofer. I can't get wound up over this, too much to do tonight... Peter On 6/25/2012 9:39 PM, J. Forster wrote: http://www.kentuckynewsnetwork.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668article=10225815 -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2433/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Humor break
Do we have to worry about this in our Rb standards? How could we compensate for the effects? On 06/11/12, Bill Hawkinsb...@iaxs.net wrote: Celia Rivenbark of Wilmington, NC, wrote a piece about an accident on a Florida highway, headline Driving and shaving just don't mix. In it she remarked that the woman who caused the accident appears to have a face that would stop a clock and raise hell with small watches. What I love about life is that you learn something new every day. Who would have dreamed that watches could be affected too. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- [1]time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to [2]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. References 1. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com 2. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Humor break
As opposed to COS? I think you're going off on a TAN. On 6/11/2012 7:54 PM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: Obviously, it's not a REACH to say that SIN was probably involved here... :-) Ok, I'll go away now... -Dave - Original Message - From: Jean-Louis Onetojean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 2:44:31 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Humor break It seems that ROHS is involved: (tin) whiskers ? On 11/06/2012 21:14, Bill Hawkins wrote: Celia Rivenbark of Wilmington, NC, wrote a piece about an accident on a Florida highway, headline Driving and shaving just don't mix. In it she remarked that the woman who caused the accident appears to have a face that would stop a clock and raise hell with small watches. What I love about life is that you learn something new every day. Who would have dreamed that watches could be affected too. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).
As for the spectrum analyzer, shipping is the killer. I picked up a nice condition HP 8566B for around $USD 900 but it would blow through your budget real quick to ship there. Keep an eye out on eBay for units listed to end on an odd hour and set snipes. Peter On Jun 6, 2012, at 6:53 PM, Chris Wilson ch...@chriswilson.tv wrote: 06/06/2012 23:47 Just to thank everyone for the warm welcome and splendid advice, I couldn't have asked for anything more. A great bunch of boffins (in the nicest possible way ;)) I have just ordered from a well known auction site's China Town a Thunderbolt kit and will be looking forward to installing it in my shack when it arrives. It should be a great starter and give me confidence the readings from various items of test gear. If you can't trust the test gear, you are a bit stuffed! As an aside, and very off topic, I am wanting a decent used spectrum analyzer. If I lived in the USA they appear to be oozing from the woodwork, over here in the UK they are harder to find in demonstrably working order for a decent price. My top budget is £950. I can collect and I can make snappy decisions. Thanks. -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
