Thinkpenguin says, arm is the most viable path. It is difficult to argue with
thinkpenguin because he has dealt with the difficulties about free software
on hardware. About arm I think he is wrong. I do not think that arm and x86
are different. Both will not release software to provide all
Wow, RISC-V looks indeed like the architecture the free software community
has been waiting for. It will take some years to finish this project but it
will definitely be a game-changer. I think it would be better to create a
separate thread about this topic as this is very important but a
appelbaum retweeted librem crowd funding. It will show if thinkpenguin and
libreboot are right. To my knowledge nowhere has appelbaum explained his
involvement in librem. It will fall on him, if it shows that he attached
himself to what is likely a scam and he should have known.
I want to
"Purism pledged 90K to their own librem 13 campaign":
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3jyqdr/purism_pledged_90k_to_their_own_librem_13_campaign/
And "Librem 13 Free Software Laptop Nears Funding Goals, After Self-Funding":
https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Libre-13-Self-Funding
And appelbaum retweeted an endorsement of purism.
I think your missing something big. It's less relevant what the architecture
is. What is important is that we can build off it, it be free, modern, and we
end up with a design that can be cost effective and cheaply adaptable if
something better comes out (ie not ARM, but something else).
This has happened a few times in the Skeptics community, I know that is why
there is the James Randy Education Fund million dollar challenge. Here in
Australia our Skeptics group (well the Sydney one) received several million
dollars anonymously from a multi millionaire. It can happen it
people (men)
*facepalm*
Do you think the Russians will backdoor it like Intel has backdoored our
CPUs?
Why is it that there is no revenge for this, what Intel has done?
Looks like I got chris mixed up with the librem guy.
Anyway the above is perhaps what the librem crew discussed.
Not thinkpenguin.
As far as the last question. No, not really, I'm not a violent person.
--Chris
This makes me think that the fraud accusations are true.
Someone who's name was being illegitimately disparaged would be very angry.
Someone who's just being called out with truth: it rolls of their back like
water
I have accepted your arguments on why the x86 notebook cannot be made.
You then fall back to the arm option. I do not like the arm option because I
do not believe its performance is high enough. That is why I ask about the
risc v.
My questions reflects my technical knowledge.
Lets say you
If only more billionaires supported this kind of project...
-_- we would be hard to challenge... alas that is not the case.
Actually- yes in reference to the Russian CPU question. It's something like
$5,000 a CPU for several year old tech. Utterly unrealistic. Maybe future
versions will be cheaper, and a real possibility, but not currently.
As far as the last question. No, not really, I'm not a violent person. I
Have you looked into russian CPUs and chipsets? It seems they're getting back
into the biz with their edbrus processors.
Perhaps they would be willing to make a no bullshit no backdoors processor?
Though they're still on larger gate sizes.
It's obvious that the signed CPU programs are
24k is slave wages, who would work for that. You might beable to pay to eat.
That's it.
Better to be dead if that were the case.
Wouldn't he just be nailed to a cross?
That's kinda the point I'm making. There are people who are *really*
dedicated to making this stuff happen. Some people are working on it part
time with 2nd real jobs and others have muster'd up the bare minimum of
resources to survive, but as a result can work on these issues full time.
I hope someday someone extremely rich gets interested in privacy as in a
billionaire. Personally I would love to someday do what Todd Weaver, CLAIMS
he is going to do. alas I have no experience yet so yeah. pity he doesn't
mean what he claims...
Is this going to come to blows?
Are you both going to set a time and a place?
There is so much talk.
Could you make a Libre player model of that anime girl in your avatar?
ChaosEsque mod/etc of Xonotic needs some japanimation.
What there is a lawsuit for slander?
Are you going to settle it in court (where they'll take all your money in
fees alone?)
That's like just accepting defeat...
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3h7xd1/purism_librem_has_an_lpc_bus_and_a_spi_chip_this/
I wrote Appelbaum this email.
ja...@appelbaum.net
Appelbaum
On twitter you announced, that you are part of purism computers. This email
wants to inform you, that Chris from thinkpenguin and coreboot have
concluded, that purism will not be able to deliver what they have
Hi there! Haven't read the message but I'm really interested what
Jacob's most active PGP is, like which pub key should I get from common
keyservers? There are so many.
I'm sure that sending him an unencrypted email will backfire.
On 08/15/2015 11:35 AM, svh...@gmail.com wrote:
I wrote
I see.
And even after all that we still don't have any solution for the future.
Lets says two or three years from now. Unfortunately there are a lot of
things that need funding like this (be it reverse engineering or cleaning up
code for release or design work / manufacturing), cooperation
Excellent discussion. It is great to see the growing intensity of interest on
freeing hardware. A couple of years ago there was a similar sense of many
things being beyond reach but the pot is simmering now instead of being kind
of lukewarm as it was then, which is not all bad.
It's not really that much different. Actually we're probably still going more
backward than forward.
1. We had a free software friendly graphics chip and now we don't have any
2. We had free software friendly wifi chips and now we don't have any
We can certainly design a system that is more
I mean to say next generation wifi chips are all dependant on proprietary
firmware with no sight of free'ing them. It might still happen, but my hopes
have dimmed greatly. The people at Qualcomm responsible for it aren't being
cooperative. This is a result of people leaving and those
2. We had free software friendly wifi chips and now we don't have any
I thought that your company ThinkPenguin is selling some. Do you mean that
free software friendly NICs are no longer being manufactured?.
I have sought information about risc v. It looks like they are active.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=novCbl4Wq3Ifeature=youtu.be and a risc v
workshop. Isn't that defining steps?
On wikipedia it says cpus up to warehouse scale. Isn't that performance
enough to make x86 duo core cpu like
OK-
Sure- we can design and manufacture *something* today or lets say tomorrow,
because today it is a bit difficult. It's only being designed today. It still
has to get the support, the money, the manufacturing, etc. But even once
you've got that your still missing a graphics chip, a wifi
There is a possibility of an ARM-based solution. It's tricky to do and won't
exactly be competitive with modern x86 offerings. However the designs are
being worked on that may eventually lead to something better. Right now your
going to be missing 3D accelerated graphics with any ARM based
I love it!
More news on Purism:
http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/08/09/the-truth-about-purism-behind-the-coreboot-scenes/
An outrageous twitter post from Todd attacking an actual RYF FSF certified
libre-laptop:
https://twitter.com/Puri_sm/status/629787848246341632
PC World did an article now too:
There's an ARM device in development called the Pyra with a decent
configuration (2 GB of RAM, dual-core CPU) with the only problems with libre
software being: no hardware acceleration, ever (PowerVR GPU), probably no
built-in wireless, and lower sound quality. That one fits everything into
Perhaps we need to start wondering if purism is ... impure? Impurism?
http://retro-freedom.nz/blog/2015/08/03/logo-wars-back-with-a-vengeance/
https://archive.is/KwxhV
Purism continues progressing with its grandiose plans to be the first laptop
manufacturer to ever receive Free Software Foundation’s (FSF) Respects Your
Freedoms (RYF) certification.
Indeed their plans are grandiose.
gran·di·ose
ˈɡrandēˌōs,ˌɡrandēˈōs/
adjective
The Bios/Intel-Chipset code stuff (it megabytes) is probably because of VPro,
which is a backdoor (inbuilt vnc server, ram upload, etc) the US Govt wants
in all computing devices.
You have no course but to obey them in all things because they are the god of
this world, currently.
What is
Non x86 would have the same problem: a knock or a letter from the US Govt. If
you don't obey you go to prison for the rest of your life and your family is
ruined, unless you physically go to war against them (which no one will,
ofcourse).
This is what we live under. We are peons. They are
The only way this stuff will end is if the govt that rules over us was
destroyed. They are the ones that want this. They NSL'd it into existence.
They ban anything males would ever want. That isn't enough. Now they demand
backdoors.
The only way to end this would be to violently overthrow
As per your link:
Source: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/active-management-technology
In other words, the Management Engine is a back door into the system,
potentially providing remote access to anyone else, including those with
malicious intentions.
There is a lot more information
FSF aren't willing to endorse what is essentially a re-branded Trisquel with
one or two packages added.
Good.
Was the graph created for another page? I didn't realize that page was in
defence of the FSF endorsement claim. I was laughing too hard at what I
thought was another fumble. Someone else pointed me to the graph by itself
initially. It looks like it might have been used elsewhere though
It's actually irrelevant whether he's trying, because even if he tried, he'd
fail. The microcode updates are required, as is the Intel Management Engine
(read: giant backdoor), and neither of them can be replaced because they are
cryptographically signed by Intel. Both of these deficiencies
Chris, the FSF rejected Purism's proposal to have PureOS certified under the
Free System Distribution Guidelines. Ask Joshua Gay and he'll tell you.
(yes, I'm leaking this. It deserves to be put here)
Suffice it to say, PureOS contains software that isn't suitable for
endorsement by the FSF
Looks like I was right the first time around, though a bit too quick to post.
Answering my own question the graph was used on
https://puri.sm/road-to-fsf-ryf-endorsement-and-beyond/ first and Todd then
revised the page to include:
*NOTE: PureOS is working to get FSF Distribution
Well, I think you can see in my version that Purism hasn't made any progress.
;) A completely libre OS is absolutely progress, it was just already done
(more than 20 years ago).
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed
Even with the Librem 13 they're working on right now, they still haven't
been able to make a firm commitment for a fully-free BIOS. I was sent an
interesting email this weekend exposing more details of Librem. The
You know what's really funny about this diagram? It's got a whole lot of
filler: Recommend Free Software, Repository Freed, Kernel Freed,
Bootloader Freed, and FSF Distribution Endorsement. Doubly humorous is
that one of these filler statements which is claimed to be finished is
factually
I think no progress bar should have been used at all. A progress bar
implies there is a progress. No progress at all. We can NOT call an unethical
business who makes the community look bad and takes away money that could
have been employed to advance some truly decent project, like say
dh...@openmailbox.org wrote:
I also wonder if it would be wise to go to The Free Software
Foundation or RMS and ask them to make a public comment to possibly
get the word out. This seems timely since so many articles by the
tech press used the FSF Partnership with Crowd Supply [...]
It's called Google Analytics, and yes it's proprietary software. The FSF
recommends using the free replacement Piwik (and use it on their own
website).
https://piwik.org/
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/interview-with-matthieu-aubry-of-piwik
RMS told me in an email that they are trying to straighten things out with
them [CrowdSupply], and that they like CrowdSupply because they think it's
possible to donate to projects without proprietary JavaScript.
It would seem that CrowdSupply made its announcement a little bit too early,
That implies that the FSF associated itself with a site that runs proprietary
spyware on the browsers of uninformed users (or users who want to run it). I
am referring to the fact that most web users don't block JavaScript with
NoScript or similar.
Maybe you are misinterpreting a statement
Does anyone else see issues with this ...debugging... setup[1]? It looks
very flimsy from this point of view. In the future, I will have to try this
new method of prying off the keycaps when I start on my next machine.
Generally, when I'm debugging a new board, I remove it from the machine
I wonder if Todd knows that Steam is non-free (the bottom image features
the Steam logo). The page also says : With so many completely free software
applications available, we know there is something for everyone..., but the
steam client is non-free software. It also goes against what they
Yeah, I saw the same comment on Reddit :P
https://archive.is/F1X98
I don't think that's really the problem though, considering that Todd's qutes
regarding impossible-ness are, at the end of the day, correct. I think he's
correct about that part.
It's just that, when the least vague description of his attempts at freeing
the laptops are quotes of things
the fact that an assertion from a known figure is formatted as a “quote”
doesn't makes it any more valid, and often it makes it less valid, because it
is taken out of context.
Exactly the case here.
My understanding is that people are getting the computers. The problem here
is Todd is claiming, falsely, that the computers are ever going to be
freedom-respecting the same way Gluglug's refurbished laptops are, when they
are actually at best no better than Think Penguin's in that respect.
More specifically, he'd have to prove that it's possible to either crack
Intel's key (i.e. show that another, similar key has been cracked by
something other than sheer luck or espionage), or somehow get modern Intel
CPUs to work without ME.
We ARE NOT THERE YET. But are very interested in anybody willing to help
advance this area forward.
Rather than bashing those trying to solve the impossible maybe we can work
together to free it!
If you promised a fully free system, the responsibility to deliver it lies
entirely in you,
Not only the points about the community that you made, but also:
4) Trisquel is the upstream for PureOS, so maybe making drive-by comments in
the community forum and saying you probably won't bother to check the
responses is not a great way to treat the community around your
distribution's
https://archive.is/KwxhV
Am I reading this wrong, or did the FSF endorse PureOS?
I can't tell if this chart is purposely incorrect, or if that's just a typo.
To find out why everything Todd said was bullshit in the above post, please
read:
http://libreboot.org/faq/#intelme
One of the nice things about operating within a community where the average
member has an attention span greater than 5 minutes is that snakes like this
can't hide for very long.
Sometimes stories like this play out with Todd suddenly making a trip to Asia
to 'inspect the production lines'
Chris, from ThinkPenguin, who thinks we're a competitor to his revenue.
He/They have motive to spread slanderous comments about me personally, and
Purism.
We have clearly stated since we started, that we are free from the
bootloader, through the kernel, the operating system, and all
You haven't responded to any of Chris' critisms-- rather, you went straight
with a ergo decedo argument, and with sappy quotes intended to evoke positive
emotion in readers...
How sweet of you to leave quotes here for us. I see you are quite good at it.
You are awful with freeing computers and actually doing something to advance
the freedom of the community. But you are very good at promising impossible
nonsense and deliberately frauding people, and, last but not
He/They have motive to spread slanderous comments about me personally, and
Purism.
Here's where we are:
1. He had the same motives to do that to Gluglug (and he didn't do that).
2. He has gained respect here not only as a business guy of some semi-free
PCs, but also as a helpful member to
Here is the problem Chris:
When pressed you admit Purism is not there yet and have done so several
times. This is always buried in a comment thread or the Purism blog. Where it
counts, what funders see, and what customers see is that you already have the
product you are actually working
As others have said, using FUD on one of the most respected members of our
community, and probably one of the biggest financial contributors to the
Trisquel project, just isn't going to work here.
We have known the difficulty with freeing the Intel FSP binary
And yet you completely ignore
Until a whistleblower leaks the key, it won't be possible to liberate the ME.
Once the key is leaked one could write a free replacement firmware using gcc.
Therefore I won't buy the hyped hardware, which I think is as bad as
Raspberry Pi. The Rasperry Pi firmware uses a proprietery
I'm highly skeptical as well: looking at the CrowdSupply website, none of the
JavaScript code is compliant with LibreJS's standards, and very little of it
is libre, kind of like what you would typically expect. They even use Google
Analytics.
Well, I don't if it is wise, but I'm really sick of this, so I just sent a
quite long mail to RMS with the explanation, the links and the call for an
article on fsf.
I feel better. :)
There is a new update on Phoronix:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=Librem-15-Rev-2-Coreboot
However, I don't consider this to be a significant step in the right
direction as there would have to be proof first that they really installed
coreboot.
Probably true if he does make it completely freedom based it would be for
other reasons... although,
I wish he was not a fraud. but alas can't always have what you want. :)
1600 wouldn't be insane if they were legit/top of the line compatibility
without any proprietary code/firmware/hardware . Although... they aren't so
yeah.
Alas you couldn't be more right given the situation...
I don't know if anybody here voted up the above post, as it got up-voted real
fast, but thank you! It was a success and now Slashdot readers will now get
to read about this fraud as at least one post is prominently displayed in the
main thread.
Thank you to those who are actually speaking
Slashdot posted a story on Librem today. If anybody has a Slashdot account
(and even if you don't) please post something:
http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/07/30/2024255/purism-offers-free-as-in-freedom-laptops-video
There aren't enough people speaking out about Todd and the media is picking
Ha, yea.
What's the link to the comment? You posted the same link twice. ;)
I'm really getting sick of this guy is all I can say. He's doing nothing for
those who actually care about freedom. If he had a laptop out and wasn't
claiming freedom I'd not be so annoyed. However he is taking advantage of
people who aren't getting the information they need to make an
I have some more good news. There may be some more stories coming out about
Todd. I've talked to a reporter who is going to contact one of the people
knowledgeable about Todd and Purism (or hmm, at least do a follow up
interview?).
I also wonder if it would be wise to go to The Free Software Foundation or
RMS and ask them to make a public comment to possibly get the word out. This
seems timely since so many articles by the tech press used the FSF
Partnership with Crowd Supply as an oppertunity to plug the Purism Librem
We can not and must not believe anything this dude Todd says. He's obviously
a deluded, unethical opportunist. His claims have absolutely no value at all.
He has earned some money with the Librem 15. But that's it. The fiesta
hopefully and very probably ends here for Todd. The librem 13
I guess you can backup your claims. I read what you write. It is important
what you write is right. On librem 13's crowdfunding page it says 'We hope
that the FSF will grant the hardware exemption for the CPU microcode, a
non-free binary blob that is cryptographically signed and locked
This came out today on Phoronix:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed
It's very thorough, a recommended read
Lets say, amd would turn all free software. Would they be able to sell an all
free software mainboard, having all rights already?
Could that happen?
It is incredibly unlikely. Considering that they required it be removed from
libreboot as a condition of endorsing the X60 machines, they have no reason
to backslide.
I'm not sure what the story is with Jacob Appelbaum, but the reality is you
can't trust *anything* that comes out of Todds mouth. I'd like to hear from
Jacob Appelbaum personally or read something that says he's not working for
Purism and it was all a lie. However I haven't communicated with
It is a pity that they don't mean what they say, I wish they meant well but
oh well. We will just have to wait I guess for an ACTUAL trustworthy
company/nonprofit to do what Todd claims he can do.
I wish you were all wrong about him but meh I have seen evidence that you are
all right.
For
If someone has a twitter account please link Jacob Appelbaum to the coreboot
blog post and the phoronix article:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=Purism-Librem-Still-Blobbed
http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/02/23/the-truth-about-purism-why-librem-is-not-the-same-as-libre/
It's been discussed a few times before,
https://trisquel.info/en/search/node/novena
tomlukeyw...@fastmail.co.uk wrote:
a bit unrelated but:
i came across this:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
any thoughts?
seems a bit too good to be true that someone made a powerfull computer
with a completely free hardware design.
Despite the physical dimensions and
a bit unrelated but:
i came across this:
https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
any thoughts?
seems a bit too good to be true that someone made a powerfull computer with a
completely free hardware design.
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