Thanks so much Dean, I'll give it a try
... judyt
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:23:23 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
The Strong comes from an E-sword download KJV/with Strong's
numbers as one of the Bible many programs free of charge. I can put the mouse
pointer on those
- Original Message -
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: 'Lance Muir'
Sent: January 12, 2006 22:57
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with
directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which
people
- Original Message -
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: 'Lance Muir'
Sent: January 12, 2006 22:59
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
It was not the Holy Spirit"in" Jesus
that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I
How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic
bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one
must be regenerated before
it is possible to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes outof
a
misunderstanding of the spiritual realities
involved.
On Fri, 13 Jan
So Lance -
And I'm curious as to why you are always quoting Debbie
Sawczak, doesn't Mrs. Muir have anything
interesting to contribute? What exact quality do
you and "D" believe made the man Jesus divine?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:30 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From:
EVERYONE on TT, Judy, believes their observations
to be 'rooted and grounded' in Scripture. Each believes, where they are in their
journey just now, to have reflected that which the Lord Himself would have them
say.I BELIEVE THIS OF YOU. I BELIEVE THIS OF DM. ETC. However, when one
Mrs. Muir is principal of a school of some 600+
students. She teaches a course on leadership at a local seminary. She is on the
board of said seminary. She is elder at a church. She works an average of 12 hrs
a day, often leaving home before 6 only to return at 9. I couldn't begin to hold
a
Could be some "folderol" as you call it would do her
some good; sounds like she is wound pretty tight.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:01:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Mrs. Muir is principal of a school of some 600+
students. She teaches a course on leadership at a local
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
EVERYONE on TT, Judy, believes their observations
to be 'rooted and grounded' in Scripture. Each believes, where they are in
their journey just now, to have reflected that which the Lord Himself would
have
You've provided me with an excellent illustration,
JT. Neither 'my "D" (as you now refer to her..DM's "D" also JT as he longs for
her return to TT. Did you know that?) Though both 'D" and Bill would
possess much more of a genuine understanding of Calvin 'in their pinky fingers'
(a DM saying
John wrote:
Lance asked about the difference between the
Christ of DM and JT and some others on this forum. There is so much
confusion that one scarsely knows where to begin. Perhaps the best
way to say it is this: they believe in a Christ of Law and grace and
others believe in a Christ of
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on
this one, IMO, of course.
I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so
into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly.
The pagan Persian
Lance wrote:
DM should, IMO, acknowledge, clarify, and
expound that difference then, just move on.
Lance, I try not to make assumptions about what other people believe. Let
Bill clarify his position first if you don't mind. I don't know whether or
not Bill excludes the concept of sin from
"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be
overthrown."
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 5:51
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the
gospel?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:52:22 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You've provided me with an excellent
illustration, JT. Neither 'my "D" (as you now refer to her..DM's "D" also JT
as he longs for her return to TT. Did you know that?) Though both 'D" and
Bill would possess
Did their paganism and total lack of Godly
comprehension keep them from
repenting?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:16:17 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be
overthrown."
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A fair last question. You, JT, ask and answer that
question in your writings on TT daily. (i.e. not much good)
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 08:04
Subject: Re:
Now Lance this is a good of example of who cuts off
dialogue ... constantly.
What I wrote is not ad hom - neither is it
misrepresentation. Both of you constantly
evaluate everything through both culture and vocabulary
type eyeglasses. I would
call your characterization of myself, Izzy,
No backpedaling, David: turning from sin is subsidiary to genuine
repentance. I will explain further later. In the meantime why don't you read
Peter's sermon in Acts 2, asking yourself what prompted his hearers'
question: What shall we do? (v37)
- Original Message -
From: David Miller
'since you and Bill are so into culture and all
that'. Your posts are rife with ad homs and misrepresentations that it isn't
even worth the time to offer a corrective so
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc:
One thing I will say about you Lance, and this is an
observation rather than ad hom.
You are a MASTER of the put down.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:10:58 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A fair last question. You, JT, ask and answer
that question in your writings on TT daily.
"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 5:51
AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the
gospel?
Bill wrote:
... turning from sin is subsidiary to
genuine repentance.
I'm glad to hear you say this Bill. Perhaps Lance is the one who disagrees
then. Either that, or he misunderstands.
Bill wrote:
... read Peter's sermon in Acts 2, asking yourself
what prompted his hearers' question:
Did their paganism and total lack of Godly
comprehension keep them from
understanding how to repent?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:16:17 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be
overthrown."
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir"
Thanks Jt but, I can't hold a candle to you, IMO.
You just appear not to know you're doing it, whereas I actually do. (know that
you're doing it)
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
Perhaps not, David.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 08:58
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] What is the gospel?
Bill wrote:
... turning from sin is subsidiary to
genuine repentance.
I'm glad to hear you
cd: You will love it Judy-I would advise getting all the programs that can be had-Growth will demand them all.
- Original Message -
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/13/2006 5:29:59 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] More
cd: Maybe oversimplified but when opposing a theory such as man falling upward towards godhood one should start at the basics:-)
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/12/2006 9:30:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Mormon doctrine (of atonement)
cd:John -not to insult but I think to focus on concernment on you part would put most of these issues at rest. If you went and asked students at college:" what do you think the highest level of math is?" I think you would get different answers as studentsstudents vary in grade levels-would you
cd: Lance what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit "without measure" have on you statement?
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/13/2006 6:21:25 AM
Subject: Fw: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)
- Original Message
Excellentpoint, Judy!
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:02
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Nineveh
Did their paganism and total lack of Godly
comprehension keep them from
I've asked Lance what IHO made Jesus divine - a
question which has yet to be answered.
He did his customary thing which is getting off on some
personal issue which results in "put down"
and the important questions are
ignored.Criticism by itselfis destructive.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006
FALSE HUMILITY, DM!! 'you and Bill are better read andtrained in theological
matters'. You are, for a self-taught person, well read yourself.
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 13, 2006 08:04
Subject: Re: Fw:
Lance wrote: It was not the Holy Spirit"in" Jesus that made him divine, if it were then all believers would be equally divine.
Yes; this is what I thought to myself also when I read Judy's post about that.
D
cd: Lance and Debbie-what bearing do you view Jesus having that spirit
Dean and Lance,
What exactly was it about jesus that made him
divine?
Since you say you know what it was not - can you now
tell me what it is?
judyt
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Lance wrote:
It was not the Holy Spirit"in" Jesus
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about
Jesus made Him divine'. It is not as ifhe were a man to whom
aspecial endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God. He is
divine because he is God the Son who has existed from eternity,of
onenature with the Father and Spirit, come
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about
Jesus made Him divine'.
It is not as ifhe were a man to whom
aspecial endowment were added or superimposed, 'making' him God.
He is divine because he
Do you mean, Judy, that he left behind his deity
when he was on earth, that he was not God while on earth? In that case, how was
he different from any other human beingindwelt by the Spirit? And how
could the sacrifice of such a one avail for the whole human race, let alone the
whole
Depends what you are calling "his diety" If it is
the glory he had with the Father since the world began
then yes he emptied himself leaving that behind when he
took upon himself a body of flesh. The difference
between him and other humans indwelt by the Spirit is
the measure (ie he was
I think I know where you are going with this,
David.I will of course agreethat Jesus was exalted after his death
and resurrection, and you will say that this somehow corroborates Judy's view
that Jesus was not God all the while he was on earth (at least, I think this is
what she has
I don't believe you understand His nature at all Lance;
also I fail to see why it is so important to you that he be
God walking around on earth - why not allow him to be
as the scripture reveals. It is after his death (as a man)
burial and resurrection that God the Father exalted Him
and
Deity means being God. Do you think that when Jesus
laid aside his glory, he ceased to be God? And are you saying that the
difference between Jesus and other human beings, with respect to the Holy
Spirit, is merely quantitative? Third, even if a mere man were completely holy,
unblemished,
I'm wanting to know, as this is quite clear, if
DM's position is identical with your own on this? Once I hear from him I shall
get back to you..
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:28:36 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Deity means being God. Do you think that when
Jesus laid aside his glory, he ceased to be God?
No, I am not saying that exactly;
what I am saying is that he didn't come here the same as he was
there
Surely you don't believe that God died do you
Lance?
God didn't sin to begin with - it was the first man
Adam who fell incurring the curse upon mankind
And the second man Adam who paid the price and is the
first born of the New Creation
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 14:35:36 -0500 "Lance Muir"
Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a representative of God while here on earth.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think I know where you are going with this, David.I will of course agreethat Jesus was exalted
Does anyone actually have a definition for "deity?"
Is Christ, now, truly God in the same sense as the Father and was He truly God before coming to this earth (read" incarnation)?
If so and since God is the same yesterday, today, andforever -- in what sense does He continue to be God while
He is Lord of all and the Christ of the Jews. It is in Him that the mystery of the gospel is revealed. It is in Him that the reconcilation of the Jew and the Gentile , male and female, takes place. What the verse does not accomplish is this: it does not establish an event in which the incarnate
I would be interested in an exegetical study of Philip chapter - as used in this thread ( and rightly so).
Bill or anyone..
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes -- it is rather surprising that there are those who actually think that God can cease to be God, or become God when He was not !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm puzzled by your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus made Him
Bill wrote:... read Peter's sermon in Acts 2, asking yourself
what prompted his hearers' question: "What shallwe do?" (v37)
DM It appears to me that they were convicted
of their sin of having crucifiedJesus.
BT The call to repentance, then, was a call for them to
change their minds
cd: Judy I believe you have me wrong-I think the Holy Ghost played a major role in the Divines of Christ-But also believe he is divine as simply Christ (respectfully).Nor do I think that the Holy Spirit can be removed from Christ any more than God can be removed from Christ-inseparable.
Those are not my words JD, that must have been what you
THOUGHT Judy said.
What does Emmanuel mean??
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 01:28:30 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Yes, Judy has stated to me in past times that Jesus was only a
representative of God while here on earth.
jd
that JC was God's
rep toyou--there ain't no wayyou mean that 'God is with
us'
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Those are not my words JD, that must have been what
you THOUGHT Judy said.
What does Emmanuel mean??
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:32:04 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
..your _expression_, Judy 'what about Jesus
made Him divine'.
||
He is God the Word from
eternity
||
..that you yourself
uniquely possess correctly manage theGod-thoughts of
God
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:37:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
that JC was God's
rep toyou--there ain't no wayyou mean that 'God is with
us'
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:48:23 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL
which
translatesin context, alsodualistically,to:
He is [not] God the Word
from eternity
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:26:36 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:32:04 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:09:38 -0500 "Lance Muir"
..for
him
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:46:01 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
..that you
yourself uniquely possess correctly manage theGod-thoughts of
God
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 20:37:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
that JC was
God's rep toyou--there ain't no wayyou mean
Lance wrote:
... you will say that this somehow corroborates
Judy's view that Jesus was not God all the while
he was on earth (at least, I think this is what she
has implied).
I don't read her the same way that you do Lance.
Lance wrote:
Do you agree with her on that, then?
Yes/No.
Jesus
JD wrote:
What the verse does not accomplish is this:
it does not establish an event in which the
incarnate was not an equal partner.
1 Corinthians 15:27-28
(27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things
are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted,
myth (indeed,
evidence suggests that you're a philosopher, also not a very good one; that
there is no way the ff. is either true or biblical)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:54:33 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:[JC] had laid aside his divinity, meaning that he had laid
aside the
are you street
preachin' these days?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:18:12 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd:John -not to insult but I think to focus on concernment on you
part would put most of these issues at rest. If you went and asked students at
college:" what do you
,,your doctrine's
about like jt's ain't it--sorta like you are amonga couple of
pplwhose mind isthe God-thoughts of God, 'Immanuel' be
damned?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:19:13 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
are you street
preachin' these days?
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:18:12 -0500
..Bro, do you think
DaveHs computer crashed again last night? :)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:26:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
,,your doctrine's
about like jt's ain't it--sorta like you are amonga couple of
pplwhose mind isthe God-thoughts of God, 'Immanuel' be
damned?
On Fri,
Bill wrote:
Please consider this with me: the Hebrew speaking
Jews present that day would have heard Peter saying
to them that Elohim hath made that same Yeshua . . .
both Yahweh and Messiah. Does this mean that God
made Jesus divine? No, it means that Elohim -- a plural
noun; hence it being
Oh, it is Biblical, Gary.
Philippians 2:5-9
(5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God:
(7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness
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