Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[PGage]

I am saying a black guy whitening his face is not in the same category as a
white guy blackening his face. They are two completely different things. I
submit that if one does not understand that, one does not understand why
blackface is a vile, hateful and racist phenomenon.



On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:15 PM Steve Timko  wrote:

> But lighting a cross on the lawn of a white family is still pretty bad,
> even if it doesn't carry the weight of lighting the cross on the lawn of a
> black family.
> The Ku Klux Klan tried to scared migrant coal miners in western
> Pennsylvania in the period immediately after World War I. They burned a
> cross in my father's town.. He and his older brother, who were maybe not
> teens yet, took a pickle barrel ring and mounted it on a pole, doused it
> with gas and lit it on the hillside. The community braced as they thought
> the Slavs were fighting back.
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not
>> qualitatively equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common.
>> Lighting a bag of dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be
>> obnoxious, even potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be
>> even mentioned in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a
>> black neighbor.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko  wrote:
>>
>>> Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to
 equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface.



 On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko 
 wrote:

> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
> LINK 
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people 
>> do
>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they 
>> cause
>> a burden for others. This is not that.
>>
>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
>> inherent racism.
>>
>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could 
>> dress
>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
>> really fucking racist in those days.”
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my
>>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe 
>>> third
>>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a 
>>> survey
>>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so 
>>> they
>>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be
>>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black 
>>> people.
>>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and 
>>> part
>>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high
>>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of 
>>> them
>>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were
>>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.

 I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
 neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My 
 group
 of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told 
 us to
 “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the 
 street. My
 oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football 
 team. It
 wasn’t weird to 

RE: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[Brad Beam]

From: tvornottv@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvornottv@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Steve Timko


>Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
>LINK  
 
Exhibit 2: Eddie Murphy in “White Like Me” (SNL, 1984).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_LeJfn_qW0
 
_   _
|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV
|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[Steve Timko]

But lighting a cross on the lawn of a white family is still pretty bad,
even if it doesn't carry the weight of lighting the cross on the lawn of a
black family.
The Ku Klux Klan tried to scared migrant coal miners in western
Pennsylvania in the period immediately after World War I. They burned a
cross in my father's town.. He and his older brother, who were maybe not
teens yet, took a pickle barrel ring and mounted it on a pole, doused it
with gas and lit it on the hillside. The community braced as they thought
the Slavs were fighting back.

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM PGage  wrote:

> It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not qualitatively
> equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. Lighting a bag of
> dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be obnoxious, even
> potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be even mentioned
> in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a black neighbor.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko  wrote:
>
>> Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive?
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to
>>> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
 LINK 

 On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:

> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
> a burden for others. This is not that.
>
> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
> inherent racism.
>
> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress
> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
> really fucking racist in those days.”
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my
>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe 
>> third
>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a 
>> survey
>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they
>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be
>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black 
>> people.
>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and 
>> part
>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high
>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them
>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were
>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.
>>>
>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My 
>>> group
>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told 
>>> us to
>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the 
>>> street. My
>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. 
>>> It
>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would 
>>> have
>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.
>>>
>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group
>>> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they 
>>> were
>>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet 
>>> they
>>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have

Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[PGage]

It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not qualitatively
equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. Lighting a bag of
dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be obnoxious, even
potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be even mentioned
in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a black neighbor.



On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko  wrote:

> Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive?
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to
>> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
>>> LINK 
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
 “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
 vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
 a burden for others. This is not that.

 Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
 observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
 Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
 itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
 tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
 inherent racism.

 If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
 with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
 used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
 politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
 everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
 exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress
 in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
 conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
 have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
 really fucking racist in those days.”

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko 
 wrote:

> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my
> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe 
> third
> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a 
> survey
> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they
> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be
> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black 
> people.
> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part
> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high
> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them
> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were
> made. But everyone was pretty mellow.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
> wrote:
>
>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.
>>
>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My 
>> group
>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us 
>> to
>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. 
>> My
>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. 
>> It
>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would 
>> have
>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.
>>
>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group
>> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they 
>> were
>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they
>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have
>> been contemplated.
>>
>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white.
>> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even 
>> surrounded
>> my mostly white folks, no black face.
>>
>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique.
>> If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist
>> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help.
>> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were 
>> not
>> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[Steve Timko]

Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive?

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage  wrote:

> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to
> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko  wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
>> LINK 
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:
>>
>>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
>>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
>>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
>>> a burden for others. This is not that.
>>>
>>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
>>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
>>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
>>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
>>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
>>> inherent racism.
>>>
>>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
>>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
>>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
>>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
>>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
>>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress
>>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
>>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
>>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
>>> really fucking racist in those days.”
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my
 case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third
 (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey
 of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they
 put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be
 honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people.
 My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part
 time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high
 school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them
 but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were
 made. But everyone was pretty mellow.

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
 wrote:

> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.
>
> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group
> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us 
> to
> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. 
> My
> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It
> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would 
> have
> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.
>
> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group
> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were
> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they
> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have
> been contemplated.
>
> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white.
> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded
> my mostly white folks, no black face.
>
> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique.
> If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist
> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help.
> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not
> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage  wrote:
>
>> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say
>> that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were
>> growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists.
>>
>> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not
>> one of those things.
>>
>> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so...
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face
>>> was 

[TV orNotTV] Re: Did your family stick with one network over the other?

[daniel anderson]

I had one extended family member, say that while she watched *The Doctors(*soap 
opera) and Another World on NBC, she watched Cronkite for the news.  I 
believe it was because Frank McGee declared during a broadcast that Vietnam 
was being lost- that made that family upset enough to watch Cronkite. These 
days, for news in our household, it's ABC.

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 8:23:24 PM UTC-4, daniel anderson wrote:
>
> I was thinking- We watched ABC shows back then- we almost agreed on 
> everything then- with exceptions being daytime game shows on NBC, and maybe 
> a few others.
>

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Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[PGage]

Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to
equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface.



On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko  wrote:

> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
> LINK 
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
>> a burden for others. This is not that.
>>
>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
>> inherent racism.
>>
>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress
>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
>> really fucking racist in those days.”
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my case,
>>> we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third (I
>>> was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey of
>>> entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they put
>>> a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be honest,.
>>> I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people. My town
>>> had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part time in
>>> the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high school I
>>> actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them but I
>>> never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were made.
>>> But everyone was pretty mellow.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.

 I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
 neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group
 of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us to
 “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. My
 oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It
 wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would have
 worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.

 When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group of
 kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were
 even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they
 remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have
 been contemplated.

 College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white.
 That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded
 my mostly white folks, no black face.

 I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. If
 you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist
 behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help.
 Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not
 overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves.

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage  wrote:

> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say
> that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were
> growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists.
>
> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not
> one of those things.
>
> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so...
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face was
>> still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural mining
>> town.  I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college.
>> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to be

Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[Kevin M.]

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:59 PM Steve Timko  wrote:

> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
> LINK 
>

I lost all respect for Chapelle when he bailed on his hit series, leaving a
lot of good people out of work. As such, I am predisposed to dislike
anything he says or does.


>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:
>
>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
>> a burden for others. This is not that.
>>
>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
>> inherent racism.
>>
>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up
>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we
>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is
>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard”
>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is
>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress
>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite
>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people
>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were
>> really fucking racist in those days.”
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my case,
>>> we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third (I
>>> was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey of
>>> entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they put
>>> a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be honest,.
>>> I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people. My town
>>> had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part time in
>>> the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high school I
>>> actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them but I
>>> never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were made.
>>> But everyone was pretty mellow.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.

 I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
 neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group
 of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us to
 “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. My
 oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It
 wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would have
 worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.

 When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group of
 kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were
 even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they
 remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have
 been contemplated.

 College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white.
 That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded
 my mostly white folks, no black face.

 I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. If
 you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist
 behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help.
 Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not
 overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves.

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage  wrote:

> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say
> that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were
> growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists.
>
> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not
> one of those things.
>
> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so...
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face was
>> still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural mining
>> town.  I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college.
>> 

Re: [TV orNotTV] Megyn Kelly steps in it again

[Steve Timko]

Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face?
LINK 

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage  wrote:

> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term
> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do
> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause
> a burden for others. This is not that.
>
> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the
> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing
> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in
> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts
> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the
> inherent racism.
>
> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up with
> what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we used
> Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is politicallly
> incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” everyone would,
> appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is exactly like that.
> I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress in blackface
> without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite conversation. The
> appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people have become so
> sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were really fucking
> racist in those days.”
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko  wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my case,
>> we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third (I
>> was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey of
>> entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they put
>> a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be honest,.
>> I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people. My town
>> had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part time in
>> the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high school I
>> actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them but I
>> never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were made.
>> But everyone was pretty mellow.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever.
>>>
>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my
>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group
>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us to
>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. My
>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It
>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would have
>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive.
>>>
>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group of
>>> kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were
>>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they
>>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have
>>> been contemplated.
>>>
>>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white.
>>> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded
>>> my mostly white folks, no black face.
>>>
>>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. If
>>> you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist
>>> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help.
>>> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not
>>> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage  wrote:
>>>
 If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say
 that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were
 growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists.

 Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not
 one of those things.

 Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so...

 On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko 
 wrote:

> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face was
> still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural mining
> town.  I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college.
> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to be
> where Kelly is lacking.
> I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman  wrote:
>
>> Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129

Re: [TV orNotTV] California on fire... again

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

daniel anderson, Friday (9):
>
> I wonder what happens if the Rams-Seahawks game has to be moved? obviously 
> Dolphins-Packers would be full national, but if the Rams game gets moved, 
> remember ESPN has exclusivity on Mondays.(altohugh they could move the Rams 
> game to after the Giants-49ers game.)
>
> The Rams had to cancel a practice 
,
 
as their facility is too close to the blaze (Aypee from a Massachusetts 
paper [link])... it was also too close to the bar where the recent attack 
occurred, prompting a pregame moment of silence... the League said Friday 

 
(UPI [link) the games are still on.

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[TV orNotTV] Re: California on fire... again

['Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV]

The "Bachelor" mansion is in "grave danger," tweeted ABC reality head Rob 
Mills.

Variety 
 
(link)

B

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