I am saying a black guy whitening his face is not in the same category as a white guy blackening his face. They are two completely different things. I submit that if one does not understand that, one does not understand why blackface is a vile, hateful and racist phenomenon.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:15 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: > But lighting a cross on the lawn of a white family is still pretty bad, > even if it doesn't carry the weight of lighting the cross on the lawn of a > black family. > The Ku Klux Klan tried to scared migrant coal miners in western > Pennsylvania in the period immediately after World War I. They burned a > cross in my father's town.. He and his older brother, who were maybe not > teens yet, took a pickle barrel ring and mounted it on a pole, doused it > with gas and lit it on the hillside. The community braced as they thought > the Slavs were fighting back. > > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not >> qualitatively equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. >> Lighting a bag of dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be >> obnoxious, even potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be >> even mentioned in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a >> black neighbor. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive? >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to >>>> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face? >>>>> LINK <https://youtu.be/ZX5MHNvjw7o> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term >>>>>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people >>>>>> do >>>>>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they >>>>>> cause >>>>>> a burden for others. This is not that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the >>>>>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing >>>>>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in >>>>>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts >>>>>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the >>>>>> inherent racism. >>>>>> >>>>>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up >>>>>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we >>>>>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is >>>>>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” >>>>>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is >>>>>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could >>>>>> dress >>>>>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite >>>>>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people >>>>>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were >>>>>> really fucking racist in those days.” >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my >>>>>>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe >>>>>>> third >>>>>>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a >>>>>>> survey >>>>>>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be >>>>>>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and >>>>>>> part >>>>>>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high >>>>>>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were >>>>>>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my >>>>>>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My >>>>>>>> group >>>>>>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told >>>>>>>> us to >>>>>>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the >>>>>>>> street. My >>>>>>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football >>>>>>>> team. It >>>>>>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the >>>>>>>> group of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> were even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, >>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>> they remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> have been contemplated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was >>>>>>>> white. That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even >>>>>>>> surrounded my mostly white folks, no black face. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not >>>>>>>> unique. If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> racist behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need >>>>>>>> help. Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots >>>>>>>> were not overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly >>>>>>>>> say that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> were growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around >>>>>>>>> racists. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is >>>>>>>>> not one of those things. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face >>>>>>>>>> was still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural >>>>>>>>>> mining >>>>>>>>>> town. I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college. >>>>>>>>>> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems >>>>>>>>>> to be where Kelly is lacking. >>>>>>>>>> I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM Kevin M. < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> How old is Kelly that, as a kid, black face was an acceptable >>>>>>>>>>>> form of dress-up? I’m in my mid 40s... I’m almost certain Kelly is >>>>>>>>>>>> younger >>>>>>>>>>>> than I am, and at no point in my life was black face ever >>>>>>>>>>>> acceptable. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM Steve Timko < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NBC lets her have it. Other networks ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/megyn-kelly-blackface-al-roker/index.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As I get more of my news through Twitter I am following more >>>>>>>>>>>>> journalists of color and feminist journalists in order to get >>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>> points of view than my own reacting to events. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> African-American >>>>>>>>>>>>> journalists I follow and the people they retweet all say that >>>>>>>>>>>>> Megyn Kelly >>>>>>>>>>>>> has a long history of racist remarks at Fox News and NBC knew >>>>>>>>>>>>> what they >>>>>>>>>>>>> were getting when they hired her. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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