But lighting a cross on the lawn of a white family is still pretty bad, even if it doesn't carry the weight of lighting the cross on the lawn of a black family. The Ku Klux Klan tried to scared migrant coal miners in western Pennsylvania in the period immediately after World War I. They burned a cross in my father's town.. He and his older brother, who were maybe not teens yet, took a pickle barrel ring and mounted it on a pole, doused it with gas and lit it on the hillside. The community braced as they thought the Slavs were fighting back.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not qualitatively > equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. Lighting a bag of > dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be obnoxious, even > potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be even mentioned > in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a black neighbor. > > > > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive? >> >> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to >>> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face? >>>> LINK <https://youtu.be/ZX5MHNvjw7o> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term >>>>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do >>>>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause >>>>> a burden for others. This is not that. >>>>> >>>>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the >>>>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing >>>>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in >>>>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts >>>>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the >>>>> inherent racism. >>>>> >>>>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up >>>>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we >>>>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is >>>>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” >>>>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is >>>>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress >>>>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite >>>>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people >>>>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were >>>>> really fucking racist in those days.” >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my >>>>>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe >>>>>> third >>>>>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a >>>>>> survey >>>>>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they >>>>>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be >>>>>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black >>>>>> people. >>>>>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and >>>>>> part >>>>>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high >>>>>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them >>>>>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were >>>>>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my >>>>>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My >>>>>>> group >>>>>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told >>>>>>> us to >>>>>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the >>>>>>> street. My >>>>>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. >>>>>>> It >>>>>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group >>>>>>> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have >>>>>>> been contemplated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white. >>>>>>> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even >>>>>>> surrounded >>>>>>> my mostly white folks, no black face. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. >>>>>>> If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist >>>>>>> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help. >>>>>>> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly >>>>>>>> say that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> were growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around >>>>>>>> racists. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is >>>>>>>> not one of those things. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face >>>>>>>>> was still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural >>>>>>>>> mining >>>>>>>>> town. I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college. >>>>>>>>> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to >>>>>>>>> be where Kelly is lacking. >>>>>>>>> I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman <ch...@neuman.ca> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM Kevin M. < >>>>>>>>>> drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> How old is Kelly that, as a kid, black face was an acceptable >>>>>>>>>>> form of dress-up? I’m in my mid 40s... I’m almost certain Kelly is >>>>>>>>>>> younger >>>>>>>>>>> than I am, and at no point in my life was black face ever >>>>>>>>>>> acceptable. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM Tom Wolper <twol...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM Steve Timko < >>>>>>>>>>>> steveti...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> NBC lets her have it. Other networks ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/megyn-kelly-blackface-al-roker/index.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As I get more of my news through Twitter I am following more >>>>>>>>>>>> journalists of color and feminist journalists in order to get >>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>> points of view than my own reacting to events. The African-American >>>>>>>>>>>> journalists I follow and the people they retweet all say that >>>>>>>>>>>> Megyn Kelly >>>>>>>>>>>> has a long history of racist remarks at Fox News and NBC knew what >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> were getting when they hired her. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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