It’s not that it is not quantitatively equivalent. It is not qualitatively equivalent. The two have nothing substantive in common. Lighting a bag of dog poop on a white neighbors porch on Halloween might be obnoxious, even potentially dangerous, vandalism. It does not deserve to be even mentioned in the same paragraph as lighting a cross on the lawn of a black neighbor.
On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:25 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: > Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive? > > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to >> equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face? >>> LINK <https://youtu.be/ZX5MHNvjw7o> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term >>>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do >>>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause >>>> a burden for others. This is not that. >>>> >>>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the >>>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing >>>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in >>>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts >>>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the >>>> inherent racism. >>>> >>>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up >>>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we >>>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is >>>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” >>>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is >>>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress >>>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite >>>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people >>>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were >>>> really fucking racist in those days.” >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my >>>>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe >>>>> third >>>>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a >>>>> survey >>>>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they >>>>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be >>>>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black >>>>> people. >>>>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part >>>>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high >>>>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them >>>>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were >>>>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my >>>>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My >>>>>> group >>>>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us >>>>>> to >>>>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. >>>>>> My >>>>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. >>>>>> It >>>>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would >>>>>> have >>>>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive. >>>>>> >>>>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group >>>>>> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they >>>>>> were >>>>>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they >>>>>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have >>>>>> been contemplated. >>>>>> >>>>>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white. >>>>>> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even >>>>>> surrounded >>>>>> my mostly white folks, no black face. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. >>>>>> If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist >>>>>> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help. >>>>>> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were >>>>>> not >>>>>> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say >>>>>>> that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around >>>>>>> racists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is >>>>>>> not one of those things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face >>>>>>>> was still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural >>>>>>>> mining >>>>>>>> town. I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college. >>>>>>>> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to >>>>>>>> be where Kelly is lacking. >>>>>>>> I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How old is Kelly that, as a kid, black face was an acceptable >>>>>>>>>> form of dress-up? I’m in my mid 40s... I’m almost certain Kelly is >>>>>>>>>> younger >>>>>>>>>> than I am, and at no point in my life was black face ever acceptable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM Steve Timko < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> NBC lets her have it. Other networks ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/megyn-kelly-blackface-al-roker/index.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As I get more of my news through Twitter I am following more >>>>>>>>>>> journalists of color and feminist journalists in order to get >>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>> points of view than my own reacting to events. The African-American >>>>>>>>>>> journalists I follow and the people they retweet all say that Megyn >>>>>>>>>>> Kelly >>>>>>>>>>> has a long history of racist remarks at Fox News and NBC knew what >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> were getting when they hired her. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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