Does it have to be equivalent to be offensive? On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 1:06 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not really - except that anyone who thinks this is in any way close to > equivalent to blackface has zero understanding of blackface. > > > > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:59 AM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Any thoughts on Dave Chapelle in white face? >> LINK <https://youtu.be/ZX5MHNvjw7o> >> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:09 AM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> As I wrote, some things are a matter of opinion. I think the term >>> “politically correct” is imprecise and loaded and unhelpful, but people do >>> vary in their sensitivity to offense, and some are so sensitive they cause >>> a burden for others. This is not that. >>> >>> Blackface is objectively racist. The racism is not imputed by the >>> observer, it does not depend on the act of perception. Al Jolson singing >>> Mammy is a racist image. People do not impute offense to it; it is, in >>> itself, offensive. Now context and relationship can make offensive acts >>> tools of resistance, or excusable ignorance. But nothing changes the >>> inherent racism. >>> >>> If a really old German said something like: “Boy it’s hard to keep up >>> with what is and is not OK. When I was a kid back in the early 1930s we >>> used Swastikas to decorate kid’s birthday parties, and now it is >>> politicallly incorrect to just fly a Swastika flag in your front yard” >>> everyone would, appropriately, call bullshit on that. What Kelly said is >>> exactly like that. I am sure lots of people remember when they could dress >>> in blackface without condemnation, or use the word nigger in polite >>> conversation. The appropriate observation about that is not “gee, people >>> have become so sensitive these days” but more like “gee, I guess we were >>> really fucking racist in those days.” >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not sure when you mean "honestly say it was not racist." In my >>>> case, we did a school play when I was in fourth or fifth grade, maybe third >>>> (I was in the east wing of the school at the time) and it included a survey >>>> of entertainment. There was the obligatory reference to Al Jolson so they >>>> put a kid in black face and had him sing a few Al Jolson lines. To be >>>> honest,. I'm not sure we understood that we were caricaturing black people. >>>> My town had one black couple. The woman worked in the post office and part >>>> time in the high school library in a near by town. When I got to high >>>> school I actually had a black classmate. I won't speak for either of them >>>> but I never saw overtly racial remarks towards them., I'm sure they were >>>> made. But everyone was pretty mellow. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:00 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I grew up around racists... no black face... not ever. >>>>> >>>>> I’ve stated over on my own social media that, growing up in my >>>>> neighborhood in Pomona, one could not be racist and have friends. My group >>>>> of friends never thought much about it. When our respective moms told us >>>>> to >>>>> “go outside and play,” we played with whichever kids were in the street. >>>>> My >>>>> oldest brother was the only white guy on his high school football team. It >>>>> wasn’t weird to us; it was normal and no big deal. Nobody I knew would >>>>> have >>>>> worn black face either as a gag or to be offensive. >>>>> >>>>> When I went to high school in Corona, I attached myself to the group >>>>> of kids who hung around what was called the “scholar bench,” and they were >>>>> even more diverse (I brought down the grade curve significantly, yet they >>>>> remain my closest friends to this day). Again, black face would not have >>>>> been contemplated. >>>>> >>>>> College up in the state of Washington, most of the campus was white. >>>>> That’s how much of Western Washington was at the time. But even surrounded >>>>> my mostly white folks, no black face. >>>>> >>>>> I wrote this not as some sort of humblegrag; my story is not unique. >>>>> If you are any age and remember with any degree of nostalgia the racist >>>>> behavior of the people you knew when you were younger, you need help. >>>>> Racism certainly existed all around me growing up, but the bigots were not >>>>> overt about it. If anything, racists kept it to themselves. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:36 PM PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you are under 60 and at anytime in your life you can honestly say >>>>>> that it was not racist for white people to put on blackface when you were >>>>>> growing up, we know only one things for sure; you grew up around racists. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of things about race are complex and subject to POV. This is not >>>>>> one of those things. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, lots of people grew up around racists, so... >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 3:45 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm a decade older than Megyn Kelly. When I was a kid, black face >>>>>>> was still okay, although that was a reflection of a being in a rural >>>>>>> mining >>>>>>> town. I called Brazil nuts nigger toes until I got into college. >>>>>>> Of course I learned to be more culturally sensitive. That seems to >>>>>>> be where Kelly is lacking. >>>>>>> I wonder if this will show up as an SNL skit? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Chris Neuman <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Patton Oswalt tweeted that same sentiment: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/pattonoswalt/status/1054759947114672129 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How old is Kelly that, as a kid, black face was an acceptable form >>>>>>>>> of dress-up? I’m in my mid 40s... I’m almost certain Kelly is younger >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> I am, and at no point in my life was black face ever acceptable. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 AM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM Steve Timko < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> NBC lets her have it. Other networks ignore it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/megyn-kelly-blackface-al-roker/index.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As I get more of my news through Twitter I am following more >>>>>>>>>> journalists of color and feminist journalists in order to get >>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>> points of view than my own reacting to events. The African-American >>>>>>>>>> journalists I follow and the people they retweet all say that Megyn >>>>>>>>>> Kelly >>>>>>>>>> has a long history of racist remarks at Fox News and NBC knew what >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> were getting when they hired her. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
