Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
Hello Stephen, Yes database is used but only for server and user's accounts configuration, e-mails are stored into separated text files. And in fact it is pretty cool to have user accounts in database as you can do easy extraction/changes/stats. regards. SD> Thanks for link, but seems it uses a database behind it which I'm not friends with. SD> I'd prefer a Delphi implementation. Although best solution is a better email server. -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
Hello Stephen, Yes this is what I am talking about the slow down message that receiver can send back to the server according to 3 facts : - the number of SMTP connections at same time - the number of e-mail within an amount of time - the number of recipients per single mail some other protections could also be : - IP source black list - SPF DNS check - greylist system All those protections can produce 5.x.x or 4.x.x depending how the server is configured. 5.x.x errors are "permanent" meaning that the mail has definitely be rejected/canceled/refused. 4.x.x errors are "temporarily" meaning the mail has also been rejected but the sender can send the mail again "later". What you are howing me is a 550 error meaning that this mail cannot be marked as SPAM as it has been fully rejected by the server's destination so it will never reach an inbox with some "spam" tag. At the beginning you told about e-mails marked as spam (so meaning they has been accepted) and now you show mail that is permanently (5.x.x) rejected because they are considered as a spam, that make a difference. Also you error message is wrong because a 5.x.x should never be retried ! so this "Will keep trying until message is 2 days old" against a 550 error number is non-sense the server that send the e-mail should never retry/put in resend queue upon 5.x.x error. regards. SD> I'm told there are also limits to the number of emails we can SD> send to someone per hour, and a bunch of other flavours of anti-spam. SD> I am seeing mail returns that say: SD> " message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 2 days old" SD> And SD> " permanent fatal errors " SD> ... " <<< 550-"JunkMail rejected " SD> ... " <<< 550 unattended mailbox " -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
> OK this is the "slow down" I talked about because you send too > much/fast > but the behaviour you are describing "marked as spam" is not what servers use > to do when receiving "too many" mails from a source and this is why this > temporary mail rejection error is for, gently asking the sender to retry > slower. I'm told there are also limits to the number of emails we can send to someone per hour, and a bunch of other flavours of anti-spam. I am seeing mail returns that say: " message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 2 days old" And " permanent fatal errors " ... " <<< 550-"JunkMail rejected " ... " <<< 550 unattended mailbox " > And if you are looking for a SMTP/IMAP/POP3 server only (I mean no extra > modules like webmail client interface, stats analysis module...) I do like > opensource hMailServer that can also be controlled thru COM interface. > https://www.hmailserver.com/ Thanks for link, but seems it uses a database behind it which I'm not friends with. I'd prefer a Delphi implementation. Although best solution is a better email server. Stephen Dickason Senior Developer - Managed Services Email: sdicka...@elcb.co.za ELCB Information Services (Pty) Ltd Customer Service Email e...@elcb.co.za * www.elcb.co.za E A S T L O N D O N Tel: +27(43) 704 0700 Fax: +27(43) 704 0701 J O H A N N E S B U R G Tel: +27(11) 879 6179 Fax: +27(11) 454 0384 P O R T E L I Z A B E T H Tel: +27(41) 373 0529 Fax: +27(86) 650 0135 Disclaimer -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
> So a non-Windows application is relaying email via a non-ICS windows SMTP > relay server, which is so badly designed it's seen as a source of spam? It is a really old version of the application, but yes. > seems like you need a better Windows mail server, try SmarterMail which is Investigating it. Thanks. > You may be able to create something similar with the ICS SmtpServer > component and MailQueue That was the idea, at least for queuing the emails for delivery better. For now trying to put in a 2 second gap between emails in the batch process as a temporary measure. But still have to get it passed all the other red tape. Stephen Dickason Senior Developer - Managed Services Email: sdicka...@elcb.co.za ELCB Information Services (Pty) Ltd Customer Service Email e...@elcb.co.za * www.elcb.co.za E A S T L O N D O N Tel: +27(43) 704 0700 Fax: +27(43) 704 0701 J O H A N N E S B U R G Tel: +27(11) 879 6179 Fax: +27(11) 454 0384 P O R T E L I Z A B E T H Tel: +27(41) 373 0529 Fax: +27(86) 650 0135 Disclaimer -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
Hello, And if you are looking for a SMTP/IMAP/POP3 server only (I mean no extra modules like webmail client interface, stats analysis module...) I do like opensource hMailServer that can also be controlled thru COM interface. https://www.hmailserver.com/ regards. >> Currently setup is with Unix client machine running batch >> process, connecting to our Windows email server (non-ICS). >> The version of our Windows email server software only limits >> concurrent outgoing connections, not how many connections to each >> receiving server. >> So our batch process is sending 20 emails (for example) to one >> email because of the batch process, our windows email server >> receives all 20 fine, but this then causes 20 connections to an >> external receiving email server for the same email address from >> our server, which in general email servers don't like. ARMSL> So a non-Windows application is relaying email via a non-ICS windows ARMSL> SMTP relay server, which is so badly designed it's seen a source of ARMSL> spam? ARMSL> seems like you need a better Windows mail server, try SmarterMail which ARMSL> is what I use on my public server. For sending email with a single ARMSL> domain, it would be free. You may want to investigate it's concurrent ARMSL> connections first, but it includes numerous anti-spam methods so I ARMSL> expect it similarly avoids being seen as a spam source. It can be used ARMSL> for mailing lists. ARMSL> http://www.smartertools.com/ ARMSL> You may be able to create something similar with the ICS SmtpServer ARMSL> component and MailQueue, ideally we need a Pop3Server as well and that ARMSL> would make a complete mail server (with a lot of file processing in the ARMSL> middle). But that is a major project, particularly the spam checking ARMSL> side of it. It's on my very long term wish list, but not sure I'll ARMSL> ever manage it, meanwhile I make do with SmarterMail. ARMSL> Angus mailto:do...@yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
Hello Stephen, OK this is the "slow down" I talked about because you send too much/fast but the behavior you are describing "marked as spam" is not what servers use to do when receiving "too many" mails from a source and this is why this temporary mail rejection error is for, gently asking the sender to retry slower. regards. SD> Dod: I don't know much about SPF checks, but we have identified SD> one of the errors as 'too many concurrent connections', and this is one that I'm trying to fix. SD> Stephen Dickason SD> Senior Developer - Managed Services SD> Email: sdicka...@elcb.co.za SD> ELCB Information Services (Pty) Ltd SD> Customer Service Email e...@elcb.co.za * www.elcb.co.za SD> E A S T L O N D O N SD> Tel: +27(43) 704 0700 SD> Fax: +27(43) 704 0701 SD> J O H A N N E S B U R G SD> Tel: +27(11) 879 6179 SD> Fax: +27(11) 454 0384 SD> P O R T E L I Z A B E T H SD> Tel: +27(41) 373 0529 SD> Fax: +27(86) 650 0135 SD> Disclaimer SD> -Original Message- SD> From: TWSocket [mailto:twsocket-boun...@lists.elists.org] On Behalf Of Dod SD> Sent: 08 January 2016 19:30 SD> To: ICS support mailing SD> Subject: Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example SD> I may also have a question, you say marked as SPAM because you SD> send mails too fast, this is an unsusual behavior, because SD> a server "flooded" will reject yor e-mail or block your e-mail SD> with some 4.2.x "slow down" temporary error. SD> Are you sure you are not impacted by a SPF check ? mailto:do...@yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
> Currently setup is with Unix client machine running batch > process, connecting to our Windows email server (non-ICS). > The version of our Windows email server software only limits > concurrent outgoing connections, not how many connections to each > receiving server. > So our batch process is sending 20 emails (for example) to one > email because of the batch process, our windows email server > receives all 20 fine, but this then causes 20 connections to an > external receiving email server for the same email address from > our server, which in general email servers don't like. So a non-Windows application is relaying email via a non-ICS windows SMTP relay server, which is so badly designed it's seen a source of spam? seems like you need a better Windows mail server, try SmarterMail which is what I use on my public server. For sending email with a single domain, it would be free. You may want to investigate it's concurrent connections first, but it includes numerous anti-spam methods so I expect it similarly avoids being seen as a spam source. It can be used for mailing lists. http://www.smartertools.com/ You may be able to create something similar with the ICS SmtpServer component and MailQueue, ideally we need a Pop3Server as well and that would make a complete mail server (with a lot of file processing in the middle). But that is a major project, particularly the spam checking side of it. It's on my very long term wish list, but not sure I'll ever manage it, meanwhile I make do with SmarterMail. Angus -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
Dod: I don't know much about SPF checks, but we have identified one of the errors as 'too many concurrent connections', and this is one that I'm trying to fix. Stephen Dickason Senior Developer - Managed Services Email: sdicka...@elcb.co.za ELCB Information Services (Pty) Ltd Customer Service Email e...@elcb.co.za * www.elcb.co.za E A S T L O N D O N Tel: +27(43) 704 0700 Fax: +27(43) 704 0701 J O H A N N E S B U R G Tel: +27(11) 879 6179 Fax: +27(11) 454 0384 P O R T E L I Z A B E T H Tel: +27(41) 373 0529 Fax: +27(86) 650 0135 Disclaimer -Original Message- From: TWSocket [mailto:twsocket-boun...@lists.elists.org] On Behalf Of Dod Sent: 08 January 2016 19:30 To: ICS support mailing Subject: Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example I may also have a question, you say marked as SPAM because you send mails too fast, this is an unsusual behavior, because a server "flooded" will reject yor e-mail or block your e-mail with some 4.2.x "slow down" temporary error. Are you sure you are not impacted by a SPF check ? -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
> > I'm having issues with emails being marked as spam because the daily > > report batch run produces multiple emails which all get sent at the > > end of the run. > How and by what are these emails being rejected? The recipients? Your > ISP's mail server? What quantities, to how many addresses? Are you > sending them with the ICS SMTP client? Currently setup is with Unix client machine running batch process, connecting to our Windows email server (non-ICS). The version of our Windows email server software only limits concurrent outgoing connections, not how many connections to each receiving server. So our batch process is sending 20 emails (for example) to one email because of the batch process, our windows email server receives all 20 fine, but this then causes 20 connections to an external receiving email server for the same email address from our server, which in general email servers don't like. > > I have the feeling that it should be possible to make a mail queuing > > program with ICS, it would need to be able to: > > 1) Receive in emails - multiple concurrently. > > 2) Add emails received to 1 of many out queues based on to address > > (which send out based on time delay). > > 3) Report on queue lengths via an http page. > > I'm fiddling with the OverbyteSmtpServer demo > That is designed to receive SMTP emails only, not send them. I know, thanks. That is step 1. > I announced a new version of Magenta Systems Mail Queue Component component > here three months ago... This is step 2 and grateful for you sharing, I hope I understand code quickly, I have successfully sent a test email with it. > It only accepts one email at a time, but sends emails from a thread so can do > so while sending... I will have to link components from step 1 and 2 with my own code. I'm not always comfortable with multi-threading, but hope I come right. Thanks Stephen Dickason Senior Developer - Managed Services Email: sdicka...@elcb.co.za ELCB Information Services (Pty) Ltd Customer Service Email e...@elcb.co.za * www.elcb.co.za E A S T L O N D O N Tel: +27(43) 704 0700 Fax: +27(43) 704 0701 J O H A N N E S B U R G Tel: +27(11) 879 6179 Fax: +27(11) 454 0384 P O R T E L I Z A B E T H Tel: +27(41) 373 0529 Fax: +27(86) 650 0135 Disclaimer -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
I may also have a question, you say marked as SPAM because you send mails too fast, this is an unsusual behavior, because a server "flooded" will reject yor e-mail or block your e-mail with some 4.2.x "slow down" temporary error. Are you sure you are not impacted by a SPF check ? >> I'm having issues with emails being marked as spam because the >> daily report batch run produces multiple emails which all get >> sent at the end of the run. ARMSL> How and by what are these emails being rejected? The recipients? Your ARMSL> ISP's mail server? What quantities, to how many addresses? Are you ARMSL> sending them with the ICS SMTP client? >> I have the feeling that it should be possible to make a mail >> queuing program with ICS, it would need to be able to: >> 1) Receive in emails - multiple concurrently. >> 2) Add emails received to 1 of many out queues based on to >> address (which send out based on time delay). >> 3) Report on queue lengths via an http page. >> >> I'm fiddling with the OverbyteSmtpServer demo ARMSL> That is designed to receive SMTP emails only, not send them. ARMSL> I announced a new version of Magenta Systems Mail Queue Component ARMSL> component here three months ago, It has two main benefits over a simple ARMSL> ICS TSslSmtpCli component: it supports extended retries over many hours ARMSL> or days, and supports multiple SMTP relay servers or looks-up MX ARMSL> servers, while alleviating the need for the application to handle ARMSL> retries. Mail is queued to disk, so retries will continue if the ARMSL> application is restarted. The new 2.0 version looks up DNS MX records ARMSL> and sends to those SMTP servers, it also checks SSL certificates and ARMSL> the demo now includes a view queue window to see what is queued but not ARMSL> yet sent. ARMSL> http://www.magsys.co.uk/delphi/magics.asp ARMSL> It only accepts one email at a time, but sends emails from a thread so ARMSL> can do so while sending. It currently tries to send emails in queued ARMSL> order, and retries them after various delays, but it could be changed ARMSL> so the first attempt is at a specific time. ARMSL> It was originally designed to send all emails to multiple proper ARMSL> delivery SMTP servers, I have my own public SMTP server and if it can ARMSL> not access that it tried Gmail instead. It will send directly to MX ARMSL> record servers, but during my testing I discovered very quickly that ARMSL> most will reject email immediately unless reverse DNS is set-up for the ARMSL> originating IP address that matches the HELO header. Currently, it ARMSL> also does handle multiple addresses to different MX servers in the same ARMSL> email. ARMSL> Angus ARMSL> ARMSL> mailto:do...@yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
Re: [twsocket] SMTP - relay or MTA example
> I'm having issues with emails being marked as spam because the > daily report batch run produces multiple emails which all get > sent at the end of the run. How and by what are these emails being rejected? The recipients? Your ISP's mail server? What quantities, to how many addresses? Are you sending them with the ICS SMTP client? > I have the feeling that it should be possible to make a mail > queuing program with ICS, it would need to be able to: > 1) Receive in emails - multiple concurrently. > 2) Add emails received to 1 of many out queues based on to > address (which send out based on time delay). > 3) Report on queue lengths via an http page. > > I'm fiddling with the OverbyteSmtpServer demo That is designed to receive SMTP emails only, not send them. I announced a new version of Magenta Systems Mail Queue Component component here three months ago, It has two main benefits over a simple ICS TSslSmtpCli component: it supports extended retries over many hours or days, and supports multiple SMTP relay servers or looks-up MX servers, while alleviating the need for the application to handle retries. Mail is queued to disk, so retries will continue if the application is restarted. The new 2.0 version looks up DNS MX records and sends to those SMTP servers, it also checks SSL certificates and the demo now includes a view queue window to see what is queued but not yet sent. http://www.magsys.co.uk/delphi/magics.asp It only accepts one email at a time, but sends emails from a thread so can do so while sending. It currently tries to send emails in queued order, and retries them after various delays, but it could be changed so the first attempt is at a specific time. It was originally designed to send all emails to multiple proper delivery SMTP servers, I have my own public SMTP server and if it can not access that it tried Gmail instead. It will send directly to MX record servers, but during my testing I discovered very quickly that most will reject email immediately unless reverse DNS is set-up for the originating IP address that matches the HELO header. Currently, it also does handle multiple addresses to different MX servers in the same email. Angus -- To unsubscribe or change your settings for TWSocket mailing list please goto http://lists.elists.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/twsocket Visit our website at http://www.overbyte.be
