Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Your routine runs on the local machine, as the local admin of that local machine. You run in, in other words, on the very same machine which is the universe machine, not remotely. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 8:14 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud I could be completely misunderstanding your comment ...execute a login as that user. How does one automatically execute a login when the U2 dbms service starts? Are you suggesting that I start the service under particular credentials and configure that user to have a login script (which then starts some U2 phantoms/processes)? What about the Allow service to interact with desktop checkbox available when a service starts with the local system account? Then, don't you have to mess with group policies and/or a netlogon share? What if the machine isn't part of a domain? As always, on this topic more questions are raised than were answered. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 5:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If stopud just kills the Windows services (I don't know what it does), that will not kill the phantoms. Each pid runs as a seperate Windows process and is not signalled when the main services are stopped. You can manually kill any pid however. Maybe stopud does more than that. We can stop the four main processes and users who are logged in, stay logged in. No one new can log in however. Someone more familiar with stopud should comment on what that does. You don't have to *alert* U2 that it's started. What you do is execute a login as that user. In that users login script you put the phantoms you want to start. So when that user logs in, the phantoms start. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud I have no idea how that would be done. I use a U2 VB script to start services when Windows starts, but have no idea how to alert the dbms that it has started. :-( With a simple solution out there (it's been there for many years), I'm also amazed this simple issue hasn't been implemented. :-( Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 9:40 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You have to write a script that logs in as the phantom user, so that the jobs are launched inside U2. I really have no idea why IBM / Rocket didn't figure out a better way to solve this. See my past thread on the COLDSTART, a very useful command which went bye bye bye. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Dbpause doesn't close files. It blocks updates by UniData processes to UniData files. This is via a flag in shared memory that all UniData processes access. We have no control as to how operating systems manage file system files. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:35 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
WELL... in theory UniData has SOME control -- I mean, on Windows, there could be a dbpause 'flag' that tells UniData to close all the open file handles on dbpause and reopen them on dbresume. That would fix the issue! ;-) DW -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:38 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Dbpause doesn't close files. It blocks updates by UniData processes to UniData files. This is via a flag in shared memory that all UniData processes access. We have no control as to how operating systems manage file system files. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:35 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
It's dependent on the software in use -- we have customers who want to use what they've always used as backup software, and many of the products they have been using will not back up 'open' files. So they end up skipping our primary datafile files!! Yikes!! I'm sure things will improve as the Windows Server versions keep marching forward -- just one of those things -- We have 'what we have seen work' and just suggest that when it happens. Many customers just do a 'stopud' at night to pull backups -- then startud when done -- all part of their backup script. Just too bad the dbpause does not have an option to 'release open files' . I think the problem is the backup software sees any 'open file' as a potential 'in motion' and does not bother with it since there is no way it can be 'consistent'. 'dbpause' handles this 'logically' but Windows still sees and reports the file as 'open'. Again, not a huge deal - just always keeping the ear to the ground if it gets 'better'. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
You've restored from backups where files were locked during the backup? -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 8:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
You have processes running in the middle of the night. So how do you tell they are not in motion ? You could just stop those processes. right? -Original Message- From: David Wolverton dwolv...@flash.net To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 8:42 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud It's dependent on the software in use -- we have customers who want to use what they've always used as backup software, and many of the products they have been using will not back up 'open' files. So they end up skipping our primary datafile files!! Yikes!! I'm sure things will improve as the Windows Server versions keep marching forward -- just one of those things -- We have 'what we have seen work' and just suggest that when it happens. Many customers just do a 'stopud' at night to pull backups -- then startud when done -- all part of their backup script. Just too bad the dbpause does not have an option to 'release open files' . I think the problem is the backup software sees any 'open file' as a potential 'in motion' and does not bother with it since there is no way it can be 'consistent'. 'dbpause' handles this 'logically' but Windows still sees and reports the file as 'open'. Again, not a huge deal - just always keeping the ear to the ground if it gets 'better'. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
David: You raise a very interesting point; clients sometimes want to use whatever software they have to interface with your software. I have the same problem, especially with printers. All of our reports inject PCL (and PJL) into the print file to manage formatting. This means our output has two attributes not normally encountered; it needs to print directly to the printer and it can only use a PCL enabled printer. As an aside, a couple of days ago one of our clients purchased an expensive Sharp copier and when they tried to print a report it didn't print at all. It turned out the copier has a security module within it that popped open a security dialog to log the copies printed, but only worked if the print job went through the print driver. I had to inform them that wasn't a problem we could resolve as the entire process fails with direct printing. Thus, they had to turn off the security in order to use our printing. The same holds true of backup and anti-virus software; we don't support that software at all. They can't run anti-virus in the U2 data or software directories at all. They also can't use any backup software they want, especially because a number of them contain anti-virus capabilities within its functionality. So, to resolve this problem we've written a couple of Windows scripts that use Windows backup and creates a single Windows file for the U2 database. They can then use any backup software they want to backup this file. Another issue to keep in mind, Windows significantly changed the backup process between Windows 2003, Windows 2008, and Windows 2008 R2! ntbackup has been deprecated and replaced with wbadmin (in fact, in Windows 2008 R2 ntbackup isn't even loaded with the system). It's a completely different animal and not as flexible because, of course, they partially implemented something ntbackup didn't have (image backups), so they broke wbadmin and now we all have to do a different dance to get backups to work. :-( So, I guess I can say I do feel your pain! :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:14 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud It's dependent on the software in use -- we have customers who want to use what they've always used as backup software, and many of the products they have been using will not back up 'open' files. So they end up skipping our primary datafile files!! Yikes!! I'm sure things will improve as the Windows Server versions keep marching forward -- just one of those things -- We have 'what we have seen work' and just suggest that when it happens. Many customers just do a 'stopud' at night to pull backups -- then startud when done -- all part of their backup script. Just too bad the dbpause does not have an option to 'release open files' . I think the problem is the backup software sees any 'open file' as a potential 'in motion' and does not bother with it since there is no way it can be 'consistent'. 'dbpause' handles this 'logically' but Windows still sees and reports the file as 'open'. Again, not a huge deal - just always keeping the ear to the ground if it gets 'better'. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. [snipped] ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
I would not envision having every active UniData process on the system close all of their files when a dbpause command is run. Each process has it's own file handles in its private memory. Processes not actively updating files would need to be signaled that dbpause is requested and then run through their file table and issue close commands at the OS level - then let the dbpause process know they are done. Also - a UniBasic process that issues a WRITE command and detects dbpause is active will just wait until dbresume. If the process were to close their files, it would have to 'jump out' of the WRITE, cycle thru closing all files, and then resume context of the WRITE statement. All of this seems overly intensive and possibly not easily architected. Just providing some background (and my bias). Regards, Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:06 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud WELL... in theory UniData has SOME control -- I mean, on Windows, there could be a dbpause 'flag' that tells UniData to close all the open file handles on dbpause and reopen them on dbresume. That would fix the issue! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Oh Geez -- I forgot all open files were managed in private memory! That moves it all the way to the 'never can happen' setup! Thanks Wally for the slap-up-side-of-the-head! -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:28 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud I would not envision having every active UniData process on the system close all of their files when a dbpause command is run. Each process has it's own file handles in its private memory. Processes not actively updating files would need to be signaled that dbpause is requested and then run through their file table and issue close commands at the OS level - then let the dbpause process know they are done. Also - a UniBasic process that issues a WRITE command and detects dbpause is active will just wait until dbresume. If the process were to close their files, it would have to 'jump out' of the WRITE, cycle thru closing all files, and then resume context of the WRITE statement. All of this seems overly intensive and possibly not easily architected. Just providing some background (and my bias). Regards, Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Wolverton Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:06 AM To: 'U2 Users List' Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud WELL... in theory UniData has SOME control -- I mean, on Windows, there could be a dbpause 'flag' that tells UniData to close all the open file handles on dbpause and reopen them on dbresume. That would fix the issue! ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Sure would be nice if VSS would cause a dbpause type thing to occur while snapshot is taking place... On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 11:29 AM, David Wolverton dwolv...@flash.net wrote: Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
You have to write a script that logs in as the phantom user, so that the jobs are launched inside U2. I really have no idea why IBM / Rocket didn't figure out a better way to solve this. See my past thread on the COLDSTART, a very useful command which went bye bye bye. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
I have no idea how that would be done. I use a U2 VB script to start services when Windows starts, but have no idea how to alert the dbms that it has started. :-( With a simple solution out there (it's been there for many years), I'm also amazed this simple issue hasn't been implemented. :-( Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 9:40 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You have to write a script that logs in as the phantom user, so that the jobs are launched inside U2. I really have no idea why IBM / Rocket didn't figure out a better way to solve this. See my past thread on the COLDSTART, a very useful command which went bye bye bye. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
If stopud just kills the Windows services (I don't know what it does), that will not kill the phantoms. Each pid runs as a seperate Windows process and is not signalled when the main services are stopped. You can manually kill any pid however. Maybe stopud does more than that. We can stop the four main processes and users who are logged in, stay logged in. No one new can log in however. Someone more familiar with stopud should comment on what that does. You don't have to *alert* U2 that it's started. What you do is execute a login as that user. In that users login script you put the phantoms you want to start. So when that user logs in, the phantoms start. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud I have no idea how that would be done. I use a U2 VB script to start services when Windows starts, but have no idea how to alert the dbms that it has started. :-( With a simple solution out there (it's been there for many years), I'm also amazed this simple issue hasn't been implemented. :-( Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 9:40 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You have to write a script that logs in as the phantom user, so that the jobs are launched inside U2. I really have no idea why IBM / Rocket didn't figure out a better way to solve this. See my past thread on the COLDSTART, a very useful command which went bye bye bye. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 6:35 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Has the issue on Windows been resolved? Our customers reported that UniData maintained 'open files' at a dbpause, which still made the backup difficult with a dbpause. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wally Terhune Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:27 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
I could be completely misunderstanding your comment ...execute a login as that user. How does one automatically execute a login when the U2 dbms service starts? Are you suggesting that I start the service under particular credentials and configure that user to have a login script (which then starts some U2 phantoms/processes)? What about the Allow service to interact with desktop checkbox available when a service starts with the local system account? Then, don't you have to mess with group policies and/or a netlogon share? What if the machine isn't part of a domain? As always, on this topic more questions are raised than were answered. :-) Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 5:45 PM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If stopud just kills the Windows services (I don't know what it does), that will not kill the phantoms. Each pid runs as a seperate Windows process and is not signalled when the main services are stopped. You can manually kill any pid however. Maybe stopud does more than that. We can stop the four main processes and users who are logged in, stay logged in. No one new can log in however. Someone more familiar with stopud should comment on what that does. You don't have to *alert* U2 that it's started. What you do is execute a login as that user. In that users login script you put the phantoms you want to start. So when that user logs in, the phantoms start. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 3:37 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud I have no idea how that would be done. I use a U2 VB script to start services when Windows starts, but have no idea how to alert the dbms that it has started. :-( With a simple solution out there (it's been there for many years), I'm also amazed this simple issue hasn't been implemented. :-( Bill - Original Message - *From:* wjhon...@aol.com *To:* u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 9:40 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You have to write a script that logs in as the phantom user, so that the jobs are launched inside U2. I really have no idea why IBM / Rocket didn't figure out a better way to solve this. See my past thread on the COLDSTART, a very useful command which went bye bye bye. -Original Message- From: Bill Haskett wphask...@advantos.net To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 9:33 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud As far as I know, Windows doesn't care about UniData. If the Volume Shadow Copy service is running the backups cruise right through everything. Now, to answer the question of whether it works, we're not 24/7 and I wouldn't use this if we were. However, since our systems are basically unused for 3 - 4 hours every night, this is a viable solution that hasn't caused me any problems over the years. I don't really know what files were locked when the backups are performed, but I have restored quite a bit of data over the years and have had no problems. Again, we're not a 24/7 shop so this solution is the most viable and inexpensive for our purposes. If I could manage to work through a mirrored solution that would be simple and inexpensive I'd do that, but I don't have the time or resources to traverse that path. :-o This brings up another point; when stopud is run, all phantoms are killed, right? When startud runs how are these phantoms all started up again? Bill Untitled Page - Original Message - *From:* dwolv...@flash.net *To:* 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org *Date:* 8/9/2012 8:29 AM *Subject:* Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Hey -- this was a question I got though: Is there a way to make UniData VSS/Shadow-Copy 'aware'? Does that question come up to other people as they transition users to U2? -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Haskett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:06 AM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud David: I'm sure I don't have a complete understanding of your situation. I use dbpause all the time and run backups using Windows backup utilities. I don't think they have a problem backing up locked files because of the volume Shadow Copy functionality built into Windows (of course the service needs to be running). Our backups have been running on a number of machines over the last seven or eight years. Am I missing something? Bill
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
I don't think I've ever encountered an environment where the programmers actually rewrote hundreds of programs to use transaction sets just so they could then use dbpause. Sounds like a company heading for bankruptcy ;) -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud RFS with TP has been available in UniData for 15-20 years too. I understand your issues. I'm just saying you do have the ability in UniData to generate a consistent backup (physical and logical) using dbpause. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 3:53 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud That's the rub isn't it? We have a few thousand programs written over 30 years, and only a limited staff, and users always want more. Users don't see the need to go back and *fix* code that's working, and/or are not willing to pay you to do it. It's a cost-benefit issue. For a site that doesn't *have* to be 24-7 but can be say 22-7, it's safer to shutdown, then backup. You can't always control every piece of code someone has written. -Original Message- From: Wally Terhune wterh...@rocketsoftware.com To: U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 2:18 pm Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud If you have put transaction processing semantics in your code you will have logical consistency with dbpause. For RFS enabled systems, dbpause forces a checkpoint. Wally Terhune Technical Support Engineer Rocket Software 4600 South Ulster Street, Suite 1100 **Denver, CO 80237 **USA t: +1 720 475 8055 **e: wterh...@rocketsoftware.com **w: rocketsoftware.com/u2 -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud You get an extra benefit from stopud and startud in that your database will be consistent. dbpause does not enforce consistency Personally I would never suggest using dbpause to take a snapshot because of that issue. You're never guarenteed that you have a clean consistent copy. -Original Message- From: John Jenkins u2g...@btinternet.com To: 'U2 Users List' u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Wed, Aug 8, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud dbpause and dbresume allow any background processes (e.g. PHANTOM or WebDE (Redback)) to continue running. You do not have to have a restart procedure. Additionally, as long as your backup methodology is brief - a SAN snap or a mirrored drive split - then anyone using Telnet, UniObjects or ODBC not even notice and can continue uninterrupted. Stopping UniData menas terminating those sessions I'd look at what is blocking your dbpause - there is a Tech Tip in the U2 knowledgebase.- search on dbpause - you should find SFMA-13082. Regards JayJay -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: 26 July 2012 10:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Are you certain that the dbpause finished? We've had cases here where our backup scripts would hang on the dbpause command. Those cases were not random however. They all happened after a file system full event. When a file system is full and a UniData write occurs that results in a file being extended, that udt session will get a message similar to file system full. Clear space or add disk. Return to continue. The message repeats after every return entry until it can complete the write. If the user leaves that message on the screen, the write that was in progress and generated the message is still incomplete. dbpause will not complete until all writes that started before dbpause was initiated are complete. dbpause temporarily blocks all other writes initiated after the start of dbpause until dbresume is executed. I don't know what happens if dbresume were executed while a dbpause was waiting on a stuck udt. Until 7.3, the only way to find the ports with incomplete writes was to execute a normal dbpause. The pid of the process that dbpause is waiting on is reported to the terminal that initiated dbpause. Unfortunately, it does not get written to any UniData logs, so you have to see the messages on the dbpause terminal or wherever the scripts you have are logging anything. With 7.3, Rocket added the -C option to dbpause. From the release notes: UDT-3755 - Problem Description UniData -- At this release, the -c option has been added to the dbpause command. When you specify this option, UniData checks to see if any process would prevent dbpause from completing and displays details about those processes that would prevent completion without actually pausing the database. Now, after an event, we can use dbpause -C to find the hanging udts before our nightly backups scripts run. This will prevent a system hang when all processes eventually get paused waiting for dbpause to complete. My thanks to Wally and the other Rocket engineers. Dean Armbruster System Analyst Ferguson Entprises, Inc. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 05:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager First Capital Connect | Hertford House, London DDI 020 8347 4817 | Mobile 07768 933 445 First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England Wales No. 05281077. Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG The contents of this e-mail and any associated files are for the addressee only and should be treated as confidential. Unless you are the named addressee you cannot copy, use or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately. The e-mail has originated from First Capital Connect Limited. The opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender, not First Capital Connect Limited. Outbound messages are checked for all currently known viruses. First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England Wales No. 05281077. Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG. This message is confidential. It may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the addressee. If you receive this message in error, please advise us immediately. Internet email is not necessarily secure. First does not accept responsibility for changes to any email which occur after the email has been sent. Attachments to this email could contain software viruses which could damage your system. First have checked the attachments for viruses before sending, but you should virus-check them before opening. For more information on our range of services or to book your tickets online, please visit:- http://www.firstgroup.com ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud
Hi, I am backing up to a different partition which is about 5 times size of the database partition, when you manually check the partition for the backup files is always complete but the server will still be in a pause state. I have 2 different servers in 2 different location and one is fine but the other not. Regards, Thomas Boadu ¦ IS Systems Manager First Capital Connect ¦ Hertford House, London DDI 020 8347 4817 ¦ Mobile 07768 933 445 First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England Wales No. 05281077. Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG The contents of this e-mail and any associated files are for the addressee only and should be treated as confidential. Unless you are the named addressee you cannot copy, use or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately. The e-mail has originated from First Capital Connect Limited. The opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender, not First Capital Connect Limited. Outbound messages are checked for all currently known viruses. dean.armbrus...@ferguson.com Sent by: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 26/07/2012 15:24 Please respond to U2 Users List u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org cc Subject Re: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Are you certain that the dbpause finished? We've had cases here where our backup scripts would hang on the dbpause command. Those cases were not random however. They all happened after a file system full event. When a file system is full and a UniData write occurs that results in a file being extended, that udt session will get a message similar to file system full. Clear space or add disk. Return to continue. The message repeats after every return entry until it can complete the write. If the user leaves that message on the screen, the write that was in progress and generated the message is still incomplete. dbpause will not complete until all writes that started before dbpause was initiated are complete. dbpause temporarily blocks all other writes initiated after the start of dbpause until dbresume is executed. I don't know what happens if dbresume were executed while a dbpause was waiting on a stuck udt. Until 7.3, the only way to find the ports with incomplete writes was to execute a normal dbpause. The pid of the process that dbpause is waiting on is reported to the terminal that initiated dbpause. Unfortunately, it does not get written to any UniData logs, so you have to see the messages on the dbpause terminal or wherever the scripts you have are logging anything. With 7.3, Rocket added the -C option to dbpause. From the release notes: UDT-3755 - Problem Description UniData -- At this release, the -c option has been added to the dbpause command. When you specify this option, UniData checks to see if any process would prevent dbpause from completing and displays details about those processes that would prevent completion without actually pausing the database. Now, after an event, we can use dbpause -C to find the hanging udts before our nightly backups scripts run. This will prevent a system hang when all processes eventually get paused waiting for dbpause to complete. My thanks to Wally and the other Rocket engineers. Dean Armbruster System Analyst Ferguson Entprises, Inc. -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of thomas.bo...@firstgroup.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 05:34 To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] dbpause/dbresume or stopud/startud Importance: High U2users, Will I get the same benefits by using stopud and startud as oppose to dbpause and dbresume? The reason for my question is that my server is running unidata 7.2 but 50% of the time cannot resume and stays in dbpause state long after backup? Regards, Thomas Boadu | IS Systems Manager First Capital Connect | Hertford House, London DDI 020 8347 4817 | Mobile 07768 933 445 First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England Wales No. 05281077. Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG The contents of this e-mail and any associated files are for the addressee only and should be treated as confidential. Unless you are the named addressee you cannot copy, use or disclose it to anyone else. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately. The e-mail has originated from First Capital Connect Limited. The opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender, not First Capital Connect Limited. Outbound messages are checked for all currently known viruses. First Capital Connect Limited. Registered in England Wales No. 05281077. Registered office: 50 Eastbourne Terrace, Paddington, London, W2 6LG. This message is confidential. It may not be disclosed to, or used by, anyone other than the addressee
