Re: Wintegrate & Phantom

[Anthony Corrente]

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
> I need to run the WIN.IMPORT routine from a phantom and I can't seem to be
> able to do this.  Is there any way run file transfers that convert a file to
> dbf format from within UV via a phantom process.  Running UV 9.5.x on NT4
> 
> Thanks for any insight,
> Les

Hi Les,

wIntegrate requires that the session interact with the WIN.IMPORT and other
file transfer routines when transfering files from HOST to PC and vice versa.

Your best bet is to simply dedicate that session for the transfer (minimize
it), and use another wIntegrate session to do whatever you need to do.

IIRC wIntegrate used with U2 (using device licensing) will give you upto 10
connections from the same PC with only one licence used on the server.

Regards,
Anthony Corrente.


Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com
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RE: How to display a heading with a SELECT statement?

[Hona, David S]

It's also in the online help... 

"HELP FORCE"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: How to display a heading with a SELECT statement?


It does work with UV.

I found it in the User Reference pdf on page 1-50: "Use in any RetrieVe
sentence to force the display of column headings and headers when no records
are selected."

AdrianW

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RE: UOJ - UniSession Timeout

[Daly, Mark]

Thanks Wendy. I appreciate your help.

Mark.


-Original Message-
From: Wendy Smoak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:57 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: UOJ - UniSession Timeout


On Behalf Of Daly, Mark
> I've tried using the UniSession setTimeout() method. But it
> doesn't seem to have any effect.

Dave Meeks posted in April'02 suggesting setTimeout(), so I assume it was
working then.  No telling whether IBM broke it after that, though! Have you
tested it outside your webapp?

Check, and possibly increase, the timeout in the
/usr/unishared/unirpc/unirpcservices file.

http://www.indexinfocus.com/dl/u2list/200204/29998.html
http://www.indexinfocus.com/dl/u2list/200110/21548.html

What about trying the latest and greatest UOJ code, I don't *think* there
were enough changes to cause the newest version to not work against an old
version of U2.  It comes with the Personal Edition if you don't have a newer
version of U2 around.

I discarded connection pooling very early on in favor of a simple Factory
class.  It's just not that hard to create a new session compared with all
the trouble of keeping them alive and hanging around.  So I'd take a hard
look at whether connection pooling really is worth it for
your app.   (See http://www.pickwiki.com for UniSessionFactory.)

-- 
Wendy Smoak
Application Systems Analyst, Sr.
ASU IA Information Resources Management 


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Productivity metrics

[Bob Dubery]

Hi all,

IBM initiated a metric called "Function Points" that attempts to provide a
means for measuring programming tools by the amount of code that has to be
written in order to produce a program of a certain complexity.

There have been several studies by which programming languages have been
ranked in terms of lines of code (LOC) per function point (FP)

Smalltalk, for example, is reckoned to have a ratio of 20 LOC per FP. Java
and C++ come in around the 50 mark.

Is anybody aware of studies that have applied this kind of scoring to the
BASIC used in MV databases, or any other study that seeks to rank
programming languages in terms of programmer producivity and that includes
MV BASIC?

Thanks

Bob

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RE: Productivity metrics

[Brian Leach]

By 'lines of code' I wonder what they mean?

Lines of source code? Number of Actions? Source or executable statements? 

Ok, so how about an alternative - volume of typing?

I've been doing some thread work with Delphi, which relies heavily on
Borland's snappily named TMultipleReadExclusiveWriteSynchronizer class...

.Net has useable code completion, but it's still bad enough...

And as for java - 

  MyStupidlyLongClassName stupidlyLongClassNameThingy = new
MyStupidlyLongClassName

It's enough to give anyone RSI 

Brian

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Dubery
Sent: 14 April 2004 12:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Productivity metrics

Hi all,

IBM initiated a metric called "Function Points" that attempts to provide a
means for measuring programming tools by the amount of code that has to be
written in order to produce a program of a certain complexity.

There have been several studies by which programming languages have been
ranked in terms of lines of code (LOC) per function point (FP)

Smalltalk, for example, is reckoned to have a ratio of 20 LOC per FP. Java
and C++ come in around the 50 mark.

Is anybody aware of studies that have applied this kind of scoring to the
BASIC used in MV databases, or any other study that seeks to rank
programming languages in terms of programmer producivity and that includes
MV BASIC?

Thanks

Bob

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Bob Dubery]

- Original Message -
From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Productivity metrics


> By 'lines of code' I wonder what they mean?
>
> Lines of source code? Number of Actions? Source or executable statements?
I've seen it expressed as lines of source code or as "statements"

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RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ

[alfkec]

Here is the basic structure I've been using in my export programs. It does
require that the directory you are working in is setup in the VOC for the
DELETE to work - I just wanted to be extra sure that it wouldn't pick up
anything from a prior run.

EXECUTE "DELETE CONVERT.FILE, 'EXPORT.TXT'" CAPTURING XX RETURNING YY
OPENSEQ 'CONVERT.FILE', 'EXPORT.TXT' TO EXPORT.TXT THEN
  CRT 'EXPORT.TXT ALREADY EXISTS'
  STOP
END
LOOP
  READNEXT ID ELSE DONE = 1
WHILE NOT(DONE) DO
  READ REC FROM WORK.FILE, ID ELSE REC = ''
  GOSUB BUILD.LINE
  WRITESEQ LINE APPEND ON EXPORT.TXT ELSE CRT 'NOT AT END OF EXPORT.TXT'
REPEAT
*
CLOSESEQ EXPORT.TXT

I've used this on a couple of versions of UD running on windows. I've also
opened the directory as a file and done a clearfile on it. Since I have the
directory setup I could just use the regular read and write commands but
some of the items grow rather large (1 is over 1GB) this just flies through
the data. It also allows me to easily change the location of the directory.

hth
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it"

Stu Pickles


>-Original Message-
>From: Shawn Waldie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:02 PM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ
>
>
>My main problem is resolved but your suggestions raised some other
>questions, Larry.
>
>When I take the initial WEOFSEQ out, the first run will produce the
>result I need. But if I run the program again, the error statement is
>returned each time the WRITESEQ statement is executed.  When WEOFSEQ is
>executed right after the OPEN... statement, I get the desired result
>each time I run it...also, the APPEND is no longer in the WRITE...
>statement.
>
>Something else I don't understand:
>When the file to be created/refreshed doesn't exist in X.DIR, the error
>message of the OPEN... statement is returned. Even so, the new file is
>created and written to, and I receive the desired result.  I don't get
>that one.  This happens with or without the PCPERFORM command.
>
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RE: Productivity metrics

[Brian Leach]

Ok I see.
Meaningless then.
You can write some pretty hairy nested stuff into a single 'C' statement.
How is that counted? 
If you call a library function, do you count all the lines in that function?
If you execute a SQL command under TSQL, how much of the SQL library is
included in the tally?

It's like those old programming competitions - write the shortest program in
any computer language that prints itself, and so forth (before anyone pipes
up, my entry: pg $0)

I used a class generator a while back to generate VB classes to access a
data source. The classes are horrible, complicated, long winded things - but
since they were machine generated and provide just about every method I
might need my productivity was actually improved by using them.

A uvCase screen is built using a screen designer or from a short script. But
the screen interpreter includes thousands of lines of Delphi code. Again,
which is counted? 

As a measure it all sounds a bit pointless - I can't see how number of
statements relates to programmer productivity when there are so many
different ways to pare a moggie.

Brian 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Dubery
Sent: 14 April 2004 12:59
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: Productivity metrics


- Original Message -
From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Productivity metrics


> By 'lines of code' I wonder what they mean?
>
> Lines of source code? Number of Actions? Source or executable statements?
I've seen it expressed as lines of source code or as "statements"

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Lee Leitner]

I've worked with the function point methods for some time and I don't
think MV BASIC has been mapped. You could check with Dave Garmus, who is
a central figure in FP (Google him, he comes up near the front).

In order to do it you need to run some statistics against a number of
carefully selected projects that have application function point counts
and their source code. That hopefully will average out all the
implementation variations.

The other thing to do is try to interpolate using existing, measured
langauges.  Indeed it might be fair to say MV BASIC is more COBOL-like in
productivity than traditional Dartmouth BASIC. Both have known LOC/FP
ratios. A more careful assessment of where our BASIC lies relative to
other languages would probably come up with a reasonably close ratio
value.

Lee

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Bob Dubery wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> IBM initiated a metric called "Function Points" that attempts to provide a
> means for measuring programming tools by the amount of code that has to be
> written in order to produce a program of a certain complexity.
>
> There have been several studies by which programming languages have been
> ranked in terms of lines of code (LOC) per function point (FP)
>
> Smalltalk, for example, is reckoned to have a ratio of 20 LOC per FP. Java
> and C++ come in around the 50 mark.
>
> Is anybody aware of studies that have applied this kind of scoring to the
> BASIC used in MV databases, or any other study that seeks to rank
> programming languages in terms of programmer producivity and that includes
> MV BASIC?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob
>
> --
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>

--
Lee J. Leitner, Ph.D.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.leitner.org/~leitnerl

The world can only be grasped by action, not by
contemplation. The hand is the cutting edge of the mind.
  -- Jacob Bronowski V.13.0
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RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ

[Shawn Waldie]

I'm back.  I lost my machine yesterday afternoon.


-Original Message-
From: Larry Hiscock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:21 PM
To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
Subject: RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ


Comments inline:

>What version of UD are you running?  On what OS?  We're on an older
version of UD (4.0.23) on SCO OpenServer 5.0.5, and we >use WRITESEQ a
LOT, always with the same basic flow that I posted in my previous
message.  OPENSEQ, loop through WRITESEQ, >WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ

HP-UX B.11.11
UniData 6.0.9


>If the file doesn't exist, it WILL take the ELSE clause, but with
>STATUS() = 0.  If it can't create and/or open an existing file, it will
take the ELSE clause, but with STATUS() <> 0.  Use >the following in
your OPENSEQ statement:
>
>OPENSEQ 'dirfile',SEQ.NAME TO FIL.SEQ ELSE
>  IF STATUS() NE 0 THEN
>PRINT 'Error message...'
>recover from error...
>  END
>END
>
>If the file doesn't already exist, it will take the else branch, but
>STATUS() will be zero, so it won't print the error message.
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RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ

[Shawn Waldie]

It's nice to have options.
My thanks again for the suggestions.

I'm going hunting for that post that Bruce was talking about.  If
someone else finds it before me, feel free to shoot it my way. 8^)

Shawn



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ


Here is the basic structure I've been using in my export programs. It
does require that the directory you are working in is setup in the VOC
for the DELETE to work - I just wanted to be extra sure that it wouldn't
pick up anything from a prior run.

EXECUTE "DELETE CONVERT.FILE, 'EXPORT.TXT'" CAPTURING XX RETURNING YY
OPENSEQ 'CONVERT.FILE', 'EXPORT.TXT' TO EXPORT.TXT THEN
  CRT 'EXPORT.TXT ALREADY EXISTS'
  STOP
END
LOOP
  READNEXT ID ELSE DONE = 1
WHILE NOT(DONE) DO
  READ REC FROM WORK.FILE, ID ELSE REC = ''
  GOSUB BUILD.LINE
  WRITESEQ LINE APPEND ON EXPORT.TXT ELSE CRT 'NOT AT END OF EXPORT.TXT'
REPEAT
*
CLOSESEQ EXPORT.TXT

I've used this on a couple of versions of UD running on windows. I've
also opened the directory as a file and done a clearfile on it. Since I
have the directory setup I could just use the regular read and write
commands but some of the items grow rather large (1 is over 1GB) this
just flies through the data. It also allows me to easily change the
location of the directory.

hth
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it"

Stu Pickles


>-Original Message-
>From: Shawn Waldie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 2:02 PM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: [UD] OPENSEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ
>
>
>My main problem is resolved but your suggestions raised some other 
>questions, Larry.
>
>When I take the initial WEOFSEQ out, the first run will produce the 
>result I need. But if I run the program again, the error statement is 
>returned each time the WRITESEQ statement is executed.  When WEOFSEQ is

>executed right after the OPEN... statement, I get the desired result 
>each time I run it...also, the APPEND is no longer in the WRITE... 
>statement.
>
>Something else I don't understand:
>When the file to be created/refreshed doesn't exist in X.DIR, the error

>message of the OPEN... statement is returned. Even so, the new file is 
>created and written to, and I receive the desired result.  I don't get 
>that one.  This happens with or without the PCPERFORM command.
>
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UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[james . ronan]

I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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Re: Productivity metrics

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 4/14/2004 6:36:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> I've worked with the function point methods for some time and I don't
> think MV BASIC has been mapped. You could check with Dave Garmus, who is
> a central figure in FP (Google him, he comes up near the front).

http://www.ifpug.org

Will Johnson
Fast Forward
Santa Cruz "Surf City"
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Universe ODBC question concerning Multi-valued Fields

[Denny Watkins]

I have a Universe ODBC connection with a client application as follows:

We have a Windows XP based application called ID Works by Claritus.
It is an application to take photo ids; print an id card with the
photo, barcodes and other information.
I have a Universe account setup with the necessary files (data
and dictionaries) to create the ODBC connection between the
application and Universe.  The ODBC connection works and fields dealing
with auto-sequencing and print-counter fields (fields controlled by
the ID WORKS application), get updated in the Universe file.
I have one field in the Universe file which I want to be
multi-valued and there is no assocation with any other fields.
My question is how can I update the multi-value field with
results from the client application such that each time the multi-valued
field is updated, the result is placed in the next value of the field?
Which controls the updating of multi-valued fields, Universe or
the client application.
Right now, the multi-valued field only contains one value
which is the last value the client application returns.
The multi-valued field is defined in the dictionary as follows:

@ASSOC_ROW.SEQUENCE
0001: X
0002: STABLE
and the SEQUENCE field is also in the dictionary items
@
@SELECT
@REVISE
Thanks,



Denny Watkins
Director Computer Services
Morningside College
1501 Morningside Ave
Sioux City, Ia 51106-1717
Phone:  1-712-274-5250

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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[David Beahm]

First off, what are you planning to do with the data once you have it in 
Excel?  In most cases it won't be useful unless you explode/flatten the 
data out.  We have a few (UniData) solutions for turning LIST/SORT/CT 
output into symbolic link/html(with or without table view)/csv files, 
and use SBClient to handle passing the file to the client PC and opening 
the correct application.

Best,
David Beahm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.
Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths
Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)
My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.
Thanks

Jim


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[FFT2001]

Jim the short answer is you can't.
You can however strip all non printable characters by passing the data 
through OCONV(mydata, "MCP")
This turns all non printables into the period character "."
To seperate your fields, pass the data through a conversion like 
CONVERT(VM,"|", mydata)
which will turns all VM's into the vertical bar character
and so on

Excel has no problem with variable length fields, it has a problem with how 
to determine where they end.
It can read standard comma-seperated data however, so pass your data through 
CONVERT(AM,",",mydata) to indicate where each field ends.

However Multi-value data is not first normal form, it has embedded tables 
whenever you have VM, SVM or TM characters within one field.  Excel will not 
understand what to do with this.  For that you would need a programmer.

Let me see if I know one around here

Will Johnson
Fast Forward Technologies  <-- "I put the ech in tech"

In a message dated 4/14/2004 7:35:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.
> 
> I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
> inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.
> 
> Some background:
> Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
> Source data fields are variable lengths
> 
> Requirements:
> Output must be fixed length
> Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
> fixed length map)
> 
> My problem:
> I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
> standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
> complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
> little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
> considered valid.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim

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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Jeff Schasny]

You might look at Cedarville Download (ftp.cedarville.edu). Its a free
utility written in UD/UV Basic that will output CSV, HTML, XML, and DIF
files (all of which are directly readable by Excel) from command line
queries.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
Source data fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further
complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with
little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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RE: The future of U2

[Tom Firl]

Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be interested in 
knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store will require 
setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it will...

Tom Firl
Columbia Ultimate

> -Original Message-
> From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: The future of U2
> 
> 
> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
> 
> Roger
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
> >
> >
> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
> > be DB2 :-)
> >
> > Ross Ferris
> > Stamina Software
> > Visage – an Evolution in Software Development
> >
> >
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> 
> 
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Brian Leach]

Jim,

I don't see why on earth you want to use fixed length data with Excel.

Do you need to normalize the data or are you intending to use multi-line
cells? 

The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
import line breaks using the HTML  tag. It requires a few lines of code,
but it is pretty trivial.

If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.

Or - blatant plug - if you are doing this repeatedly, you might want to take
a look at mvQuery.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 April 2004 15:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.

I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.

Some background:
Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM Source data
fields are variable lengths

Requirements:
Output must be fixed length
Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will be based on a
fixed length map)

My problem:
I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a standard
, ASCII character that I should use to represent them? To further complicate
things, sone of the fields represent data that was input with little (or no
restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was considered valid.

Thanks

Jim


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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 4/14/2004 8:29:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
> using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
> directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.
> 

Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
Will
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New: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Yeatrakas,James]

We are a Unix shop using Unidata 5.7. We are being asked to upgrade to 6.0 in our LIVE 
system without much advanced preparation. If there is anybody who can point to 
anything that we should be concerned or aware of, your input is highly desired. We are 
scheduled to do this on 4/24 so don't have much opportunity to react. Thanks in 
advance!

James (Jim) Yeatrakas 
Application Analyst 
Trident Technical College, Charleston, SC 
(843) 574-6634, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Chuck Mongiovi]

> The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
> file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
> import line breaks using the HTML  tag. It requires a few lines of
code,
> but it is pretty trivial.

Has anyone ever tried using the SYLK format?

(FYI - if you've never heard of it, try www.wotsit.org and search for SYLK)

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RE: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Jeff Schasny]

1) obtain a revolver loaded with one round.
2) take it to the office(s) of the person(s) involved and ask them to spin
the cylinder, point the gun to their head, and squeeze the trigger
3) if they refuse feign a suprised look and remind them that what they are
asking you to do is functionaly then same thing

-Original Message-
From: Yeatrakas,James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: New: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7


We are a Unix shop using Unidata 5.7. We are being asked to upgrade to 6.0
in our LIVE system without much advanced preparation. If there is anybody
who can point to anything that we should be concerned or aware of, your
input is highly desired. We are scheduled to do this on 4/24 so don't have
much opportunity to react. Thanks in advance!

James (Jim) Yeatrakas 
Application Analyst 
Trident Technical College, Charleston, SC 
(843) 574-6634, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
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RE: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Bright, Frank]

Jim,

What are you plans?  Do you plan to do an upgrade or concurrent install?  We do 
concurrent installs and switch the pointers in our accounts to point to the new 
install.  In the past we have had global routines that needed to be pointed to and 
test with the new account.  Now we do local so that we do not have to update the 
pointers, just test a few of our routines.

If you have the space to do a concurrent then try that.  The old account will be there 
if you need something or need to go back.

HTH

Frank
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Yeatrakas,James
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: New: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7


We are a Unix shop using Unidata 5.7. We are being asked to upgrade to 6.0 in our LIVE 
system without much advanced preparation. If there is anybody who can point to 
anything that we should be concerned or aware of, your input is highly desired. We are 
scheduled to do this on 4/24 so don't have much opportunity to react. Thanks in 
advance!

James (Jim) Yeatrakas 
Application Analyst 
Trident Technical College, Charleston, SC 
(843) 574-6634, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Richard A. Wilson]

I use it all the time using our inhouse utilities and it works well. I 
do remember something strange in the totalling logic of sylk, something 
about being relative to the current row I believe.

Rich

Chuck Mongiovi wrote:

The best way to importing multiline cells into Excel is to generate a HTML
file that represents the spreadsheet cells as an HTML table. You can then
import line breaks using the HTML  tag. It requires a few lines of
code,

but it is pretty trivial.


Has anyone ever tried using the SYLK format?

(FYI - if you've never heard of it, try www.wotsit.org and search for SYLK)

--
Richard A. Wilson
Lakeside Systems
Smithfield, RI, USA
Voice 401-231-3959
Fax   401-231-3943
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.lakeside-systems.com
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Brian Leach]

True,

But Jim didn't specify his version of UniVerse.

if his version does support TOXML it may still be the simplest option, and
avoids having to do any coding.

If not, it is always available on the Personal Edition ...

Brian 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 April 2004 16:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

In a message dated 4/14/2004 8:29:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> If you are normalizing the data, you can dump the data into an XML format
> using an exploded SORT with the TOXML keyword. You can then load that
> directly, at least if you are running Excel 2003.
> 

Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
Will
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Wendy Smoak]

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Brian, not every implementation supports TOXML keyword
> Will

But they all support Cedarville DOWNLOAD, which works better than the
TOXML keyword anyway.  It will catch up, I'm sure, but for now, DOWNLOAD
is more flexible.  AFAIK neither of them lets you create XML in memory,
I always had to write a file.

I _was_ doing a nightly export to a third party, calling a web service
with CallHTTP and POSTing a bunch of XML to them.  Fun!  Too bad the
powers that be decided to discontinue using that vendor.

-- 
Wendy Smoak
Application Systems Analyst, Sr.
ASU IA Information Resources Management 
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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[alfkec]

Jim;

As you may have noticed from the replies: there are a number of ways to do
this. Depending on the number of files/fields and the frequency you want to
do this, and any connection options you currently have will affect your
final choice.

You may want something powerful like a data transformation tool (eg. zeus,
mvquery, etc).

You could setup an ODBC/oleDB/UniObjects links.

Custom programs to create normalized (or not) text delimited or fixed length
file(s) - these could even be in excel format.

Something like the download utility from ftp.cedarville.edu.

The later versions of UniData (I'm not sure about UniVerse) have some
extensions to the list statement to put the output to an OS file using the
TO and TOXML keywords.

Some things to consider:

Excel won't "choke" on the VM's etc they are ascii characters in the 250
range. It will however treat them as a text character and not as any type of
delimiter.

When converting to fixed length do you want to truncate fields or make sure
they are at least as large as the largest data value?

hth
-- 
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Alberta Canada

"Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it"

Stu Pickles

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:34 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: UV to Text Conversion Standard?
>
>
>I am hopeful someone can offer me some guidance.
>
>I have to move data off of my Universe system and send it to a PC for
>inclusion in a Excel Spreadsheet.
>
>Some background:
>Source data is alpha/ numeric and contains VM's, SVMs and TM
>Source data fields are variable lengths
>
>Requirements:
>Output must be fixed length
>Output must be importable into Excel (column definitions will 
>be based on a
>fixed length map)
>
>My problem:
>I think Excel will choke on VMs, SVMs and TM characters. Is there a
>standard , ASCII character that I should use to represent 
>them? To further
>complicate things, sone of the fields represent data that was 
>input with
>little (or no restrictions), ie. any character on the keyboard was
>considered valid.
>
>Thanks
>
>Jim
>
>
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>
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RE: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Debra Gonski]

Good luck Jim.  
If you need a list of little things that can bite you as a Datatel school, drop me a 
line.
Debra
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/14/04 11:43AM >>>
Jim,

What are you plans?  Do you plan to do an upgrade or concurrent install?  We do 
concurrent installs and switch the pointers in our accounts to point to the new 
install.  In the past we have had global routines that needed to be pointed to and 
test with the new account.  Now we do local so that we do not have to update the 
pointers, just test a few of our routines.

If you have the space to do a concurrent then try that.  The old account will be there 
if you need something or need to go back.

HTH

Frank
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Behalf Of Yeatrakas,James
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: New: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7


We are a Unix shop using Unidata 5.7. We are being asked to upgrade to 6.0 in our LIVE 
system without much advanced preparation. If there is anybody who can point to 
anything that we should be concerned or aware of, your input is highly desired. We are 
scheduled to do this on 4/24 so don't have much opportunity to react. Thanks in 
advance!

James (Jim) Yeatrakas 
Application Analyst 
Trident Technical College, Charleston, SC 
(843) 574-6634, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 
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RE: The future of U2

[Dawn M. Wolthuis]

I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit SQL
against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for
anyone requiring SQL.  

More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using this
model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2 view
of the data.  It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF, then
implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has
some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for web
services, for example.  Direct U2<-->XML would be much smarter, I would
think.

--dawn

Dawn M. Wolthuis
Tincat Group, Inc.
www.tincat-group.com

Take and give some delight today.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Firl
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: The future of U2

Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be interested
in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store
will require setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it
will...

Tom Firl
Columbia Ultimate

> -Original Message-
> From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: The future of U2
> 
> 
> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
> 
> Roger
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
> >
> >
> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
> > be DB2 :-)
> >
> > Ross Ferris
> > Stamina Software
> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
> >
> >
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> 
> 
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RE: Wintegrate & Phantom

[Troy Buss (Logitek Systems)]

Not as described.  The phantom does not have a client, therefore the
win.import has nothing to talk to.

However, a few days ago, someone posted some source code for reading DBF
files within a basic program directly.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Wintegrate & Phantom


I need to run the WIN.IMPORT routine from a phantom and I can't seem to be
able to do this.  Is there any way run file transfers that convert a file to
dbf format from within UV via a phantom process.  Running UV 9.5.x on NT4

Thanks for any insight,
Les
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WEOFSEQ

[Shawn Waldie]

I need some clarification.

Given the following:

X.DIR   = "X.HOME.WALDIES"; * the VOC item 'X.HOME.WALDIES' is a
pointer to /home/waldies
X.FILE  = "SRW_TEST_SEQ.txt"

OPENSEQ X.DIR,X.FILE TO FV.SEQ THEN
  WEOFSEQ FV.SEQ
ELSE
  ...
END


Upon a successful open of X.DIR at X.FILE, will the WEOFSEQ erase
everything in X.DIR starting with X.FILE, including other files that may
exist under - positionally - X.FILE?  Or is it just suppose to "clear"
anything that might be contained in X.FILE?

This what the *help* says:
The UniBasic WEOFSEQ command writes an end-of-file mark at the record
pointer position in a sequential file, which results in the file (...in
my case, X.DIR or X.FILE?) being truncated at the current position.

TIA
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RE: WEOFSEQ

[Peter Olson]

if the file x.file exists, it will write an end of file marker on it.
+-erasing what was in x.file.

it won't ( should not ) clear the x.dir directory.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Shawn Waldie
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:49 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: WEOFSEQ


I need some clarification.

Given the following:

X.DIR   = "X.HOME.WALDIES"; * the VOC item 'X.HOME.WALDIES' is a
pointer to /home/waldies
X.FILE  = "SRW_TEST_SEQ.txt"

OPENSEQ X.DIR,X.FILE TO FV.SEQ THEN
  WEOFSEQ FV.SEQ
ELSE
  ...
END


Upon a successful open of X.DIR at X.FILE, will the WEOFSEQ erase
everything in X.DIR starting with X.FILE, including other files that may
exist under - positionally - X.FILE?  Or is it just suppose to "clear"
anything that might be contained in X.FILE?

This what the *help* says:
The UniBasic WEOFSEQ command writes an end-of-file mark at the record
pointer position in a sequential file, which results in the file (...in
my case, X.DIR or X.FILE?) being truncated at the current position.

TIA
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Re: WEOFSEQ

[Allen Egerton]

From: "Shawn Waldie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:48 PM


> I need some clarification.
>
> Given the following:
>
> X.DIR   = "X.HOME.WALDIES"; * the VOC item 'X.HOME.WALDIES' is a
> pointer to /home/waldies
> X.FILE  = "SRW_TEST_SEQ.txt"
>
> OPENSEQ X.DIR,X.FILE TO FV.SEQ THEN
>   WEOFSEQ FV.SEQ
> ELSE
>   ...
> END
>
>
> Upon a successful open of X.DIR at X.FILE, will the WEOFSEQ erase
> everything in X.DIR starting with X.FILE, including other files that may
> exist under - positionally - X.FILE?  Or is it just suppose to "clear"
> anything that might be contained in X.FILE?


You *didn't* open X.DIR.  You opened sequentiall X.FILE within X.DIR onto
filepointer FV.SEQ.

As a sidenote, all actions that you take using FV.SEQ must be sequential
actions such as WRITESEQ, WEOFSEQ, CLOSESEQ.  I'm not sure what would happen
if you used a normal WRITE or CLOSE statement on that filepointer, I hope
and suspect the program would bomb.

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RE: WEOFSEQ

[Larry Hiscock]

It will only clear whatever data is already in X.FILE.

It appears I made an incorrect statement in a previous post, and I must
correct myself.  I previously stated that WRITESEQ will overwrite and
effectively clear a file.  It does not.

The sequential file must be positioned at the end of file before a WRITESEQ
is executed, or the write will fail, and the ELSE clause will be taken.
There are three ways to do this:

1) READSEQ until eof
2) Use the APPEND clause to the WRITESEQ statement
3) WEOFSEQ (truncates the file at the current position, effectively making
the end of file)

I revise my basic flow as follows:

OPENSEQ 'dirfile','seq.file.name' TO FIL.SEQ THEN
  WEOFSEQ FIL.SEQ
END ELSE
  IF STATUS() NE 0 THEN
PRINT 'Could not open/create seq.file.name'
STOP
  END
END

* Loop through data & build seq records
WRITESEQ var ON FIL.SEQ
...

* At eof
CLOSESEQ FIL.SEQ  (No WEOFSEQ required here)


Larry Hiscock
Western Computer Services
http://www.wcs-corp.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Shawn Waldie
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:49 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: WEOFSEQ


I need some clarification.

Given the following:

X.DIR   = "X.HOME.WALDIES"; * the VOC item 'X.HOME.WALDIES' is a
pointer to /home/waldies
X.FILE  = "SRW_TEST_SEQ.txt"

OPENSEQ X.DIR,X.FILE TO FV.SEQ THEN
  WEOFSEQ FV.SEQ
ELSE
  ...
END


Upon a successful open of X.DIR at X.FILE, will the WEOFSEQ erase
everything in X.DIR starting with X.FILE, including other files that may
exist under - positionally - X.FILE?  Or is it just suppose to "clear"
anything that might be contained in X.FILE?

This what the *help* says:
The UniBasic WEOFSEQ command writes an end-of-file mark at the record
pointer position in a sequential file, which results in the file (...in
my case, X.DIR or X.FILE?) being truncated at the current position.

TIA
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Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 4/14/2004 12:08:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> But they all support Cedarville DOWNLOAD, which works better than the
> TOXML keyword anyway.  It will catch up, I'm sure, but for now, DOWNLOAD
> is more flexible.  AFAIK neither of them lets you create XML in memory,
> I always had to write a file.
> 
> I _was_ doing a nightly export to a third party, calling a web service
> with CallHTTP and POSTing a bunch of XML to them.  Fun!  
> Too bad the
> powers that be decided to discontinue using that vendor.

I've never used DOWNLOAD but does it require you to do exploding sorts in order to 
capture this embedded data the poster was originally talking about?

And how exactly do you explode data that is SVM or TM delimited?  I mean sure you 
could write a program, but then that's what I recommended.
Will
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Re: Productivity metrics

[Dubery]

- Original Message - 
From: "Lee Leitner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Productivity metrics



> The other thing to do is try to interpolate using existing, measured
> langauges.  Indeed it might be fair to say MV BASIC is more COBOL-like in
> productivity than traditional Dartmouth BASIC. Both have known LOC/FP
> ratios.

MV BASIC has got to have more "whipuptitude" than COBOL. For a start there's
no need for the data division.

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RE: Objectcall headache...

[David Litzau]

One last note on the AIX/UD6/DataStage issue;  it appears that logging set
at 32 is indeed the only work around that I can get working, but IBM has
beat me to the punch when it comes to "what to do with the log files".
Apparently defining dev/null in uniapi_admin as the log directory ends up
dropping the log files into /tmp.  There must be a check to ensure that the
target is actually a "d"irectory, else it goes to /tmp.  Anyway, redirected
logging to a nice fat volume and cron is flushing them from there.

Please let me know if anybody hears of another way around until we get our
DS jobs rebuilt.  Thanks.

Dave
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RE: Objectcall headache...

[Baakkonen, Rodney]

First, let me qualify this by saying we are not yet up on UD6 on our
production box. We are testing UD6 on our development box on Solaris and
seeing none of these problems. Is this just an AIX issue? It would be good
to know before we go live. Thanks Rod

-Original Message-
From: David Litzau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:04 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Objectcall headache...


One last note on the AIX/UD6/DataStage issue;  it appears that logging set
at 32 is indeed the only work around that I can get working, but IBM has
beat me to the punch when it comes to "what to do with the log files".
Apparently defining dev/null in uniapi_admin as the log directory ends up
dropping the log files into /tmp.  There must be a check to ensure that the
target is actually a "d"irectory, else it goes to /tmp.  Anyway, redirected
logging to a nice fat volume and cron is flushing them from there.

Please let me know if anybody hears of another way around until we get our
DS jobs rebuilt.  Thanks.

Dave
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RE: The future of U2

[Joe Eugene]

U2 TO DB2 ---> Best thing to Happen.

Hopefully IBM will start integrating all IBM DB's into Flagship RDBMS
UDB.

Joe Eugene

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Roger Glenfield
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:21 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: The future of U2
> 
> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
> 
> Roger
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
> >
> >
> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
> > be DB2 :-)
> >
> > Ross Ferris
> > Stamina Software
> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
> >
> >
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> 
> 
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RE: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Kent Walker]

Re. item 1: Why a revolver?  Give the person a semi-auto pistol 
instead.  Given their demonstrated intelligence, the difference would go 
unnoticed.

At 08:40 AM 4/14/2004, Jeff Schasny wrote:
1) obtain a revolver loaded with one round.


ob. advice: back up everything to tape first.  Do it twice!

---
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Information Technology - U.C. Hastings College of the Law
415-565-4635
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RE: WEOFSEQ

[Shawn Waldie]

Got it.
Thanks again, everyone.


-Original Message-
From: Shawn Waldie 
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:49 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: WEOFSEQ


I need some clarification...
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RE: The future of U2

[Tom Firl]

> 
> U2 TO DB2 ---> Best thing to Happen.

H... I don't think I'll touch that one other than to say that only time will tell.

Tom Firl
Columbia Ultimate
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RE: The future of U2

[Gordon Glorfield]

I don't really care what the backend DB engine is as long as I can use my
favorite set of tools to develop applications.  But if a change to DB2 or
whatever is going to force me to severly change the way I operate, then I'd
see that as a bad thing.

Gordon J. Glorfield
Sr. Applications Developer
MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company)
301-360-8839 





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RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?

[Morelli, David]

I am no expert on DOWNLOAD.  However, today I loaded a new 7.10 version
for our development account (live and test will remain on 7.02 until
confirmation of functionality).  About 10 minutes after I ftp'd the zip
file from cedarville, I was up and running on 7.10.  The readme at
ftp.cedarville.edu gives the instructions.

Syntax is very similar to the LIST statement.  If you are curious the
manual is a pdf file at the same site.

David Morelli, UIS/Datatel Team 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:14 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard?


In a message dated 4/14/2004 12:08:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> But they all support Cedarville DOWNLOAD, which works better than the 
> TOXML keyword anyway.  It will catch up, I'm sure, but for now, 
> DOWNLOAD is more flexible.  AFAIK neither of them lets you create XML 
> in memory, I always had to write a file.
> 
> I _was_ doing a nightly export to a third party, calling a web service

> with CallHTTP and POSTing a bunch of XML to them.  Fun!
> Too bad the
> powers that be decided to discontinue using that vendor.

I've never used DOWNLOAD but does it require you to do exploding sorts
in order to capture this embedded data the poster was originally talking
about?

And how exactly do you explode data that is SVM or TM delimited?  I mean
sure you could write a program, but then that's what I recommended. Will
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Accessing RedBack RBOs from .NET

[Tony Evans]

Can anyone share any experience they've had calling a RedBack RBO from .NET?

I've tried the following methods:

1. OleDbConnection to the RedPages OLE DB Provider: results in an error when
trying to call the RBO's .Create() method.

2. ADODB Connection (via COM Interop) to the RedPages OLE DB Provider:
retrieves the schema (all the property names), but no data, and does not
return any error messages.

3. RedObject (via COM Interop to RedPages.dll): I can't set any property
values for method calls, so this doesn't work at all.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-Tony

Tony Evans
Web Developer
Richmont Direct
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RE: The future of U2

[djordan]

There are a variety of ways that this can be achieved.
1. the records are stored in the relational database as a raw string
including value marks etc.  This is meaningless data to DB2 users.
2. The data is converted into two dimensional databases, requiring data
typing, length definitions, etc.   Dirty data will be an issue that can
be covered a number of ways.  The data will still look multi dimensional
to the application.

The index data and dictionary will likely stay in universe.
For performance the record locking will probably remain in Universe,
meaning there can be no updating from the DB2 side or there will be
corruption.  RDBMS cannot handle row locking as efficiently as PICK.

Regards

David Jordan
Managing Consultant
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dacono Holdings Pty Ltd
Business & Technology Consulting
PO Box 909
Lane Cove 
NSW 2066
Australia
Ph 61 2 9418 8329
Fax 61 2 9427 2371
www.dacono.com.au 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gordon Glorfield
Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 6:45 AM
To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
Subject: RE: The future of U2


I don't really care what the backend DB engine is as long as I can use
my favorite set of tools to develop applications.  But if a change to
DB2 or whatever is going to force me to severly change the way I
operate, then I'd see that as a bad thing.

Gordon J. Glorfield
Sr. Applications Developer
MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company)
301-360-8839 





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Is anyone using a spooler wrapper for universe on Windows?

[Bobby Ramirez]

We are migrating from a unix box, to Windows 2000 server, and have a 3rd
party spooler application called JRT. There is no JRT spooler app for
windows. It is a slick little app that uses SP commands to manipulate jobs
in the spool queue.

I know printing on windows is handled by print manager, but i could quickly
use a product that manipulates &hold& files entries. I would even consider
looking into vbscrips to do some of this also.

I would be interested in hearing what others are doing about printing from
Universe on NT. I've setup different printers with different seperator pages
but this JRT programs is nice because an operator can reprint jobs that used
sp-assign HS. And she can print ranges of pages. 

thanks.

Bob
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Re: The future of U2

[Craig Bennett]

>2. The data is converted into two dimensional databases, requiring data
>typing, length definitions, etc.   Dirty data will be an issue that can
>be covered a number of ways.  The data will still look multi dimensional
>to the application.

PostgreSQL supports multidimensional arrays, so perhaps DB2 does too and
each MV record will become a single 3 dimensional text field?


Craig

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RE: The future of U2

[Ross Ferris]

Implementation wise, I think there are some "right" and "wrong" decisions that could 
be made. One of the "biggies" has to do with data typing, and the "common" practice 
multiply defining a field for different purposes - you know the drill - <1> might be a 
date, or a null, or some kind of flag.

This would obviously have an impact on the ability to "get at" data with SQL - 
assuming that records aren't stored as "blob/glob" as some products do.

The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is "tight" if you are 
looking at walking down this path  and before you say "we never do that", take a 
good, hard look at any temporary work files your application might use as an 
intermediate staging point !!

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage – an Evolution in Software Development


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM
>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>
>I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit
>SQL
>against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for
>anyone requiring SQL.
>
>More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using
>this
>model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2
>view
>of the data.  It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF, then
>implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has
>some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for
>web
>services, for example.  Direct U2<-->XML would be much smarter, I would
>think.
>
>--dawn
>
>Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Tincat Group, Inc.
>www.tincat-group.com
>
>Take and give some delight today.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Tom Firl
>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>
>Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be
>interested
>in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store
>will require setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it
>will...
>
>Tom Firl
>Columbia Ultimate
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
>> To: U2 Users Discussion List
>> Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>
>>
>> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
>> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
>> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
>> > be DB2 :-)
>> >
>> > Ross Ferris
>> > Stamina Software
>> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>>
>>
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RE: Unidata 6.0 upgrade from 5.7

[Ken Wallis]

Frank Bright wrote:

> What are you plans?  Do you plan to do an upgrade or
> concurrent install?  We do concurrent installs and switch the
> pointers in our accounts to point to the new install.  In the
> past we have had global routines that needed to be pointed to
> and test with the new account.  Now we do local so that we do
> not have to update the pointers, just test a few of our routines.
> 
> If you have the space to do a concurrent then try that.  The
> old account will be there if you need something or need to go back.

> Yeatrakas,James wrote:

> We are a Unix shop using Unidata 5.7. We are being asked to
> upgrade to 6.0 in our LIVE system without much advanced
> preparation. If there is anybody who can point to anything
> that we should be concerned or aware of, your input is highly
> desired. We are scheduled to do this on 4/24 so don't have
> much opportunity to react. Thanks in advance!

First of all, you aren't running 5.7 - it doesn't exist.  You might be
running 5.2.7 perhaps, but it doesn't matter really.

Secondly, although there is much fear and doom being peddled in the
responses here, you should fundamentally be OK.

Make a copy of your (entire) current UniData installation.  It may
physically be in /usr/ud52, or it might be elsewhere and /usr/ud52 may be a
symbolic link to that location, or you may have two directories - a main
location pointed to by $UDTHOME and a minimal /usr/ud52 that got
automatically created when you last did an install.  Either way, what you
want to do is to create a single directory somewhere containing a copy of
your current $UDTHOME and anything in /usr/ud52 if that is a different
location.  This will include your current global catalog space in
$UDTHOME/sys/CTLG.

LEAVE YOUR current copy of UniData alone except to make this copy.

Load the 6.0 binaries off the CD into the bin of the copy you have just
created and do an upgrade install of that copy.  That will leave you two
concurrent UniData installations, both containing any globally cataloged
programs and other customisations you've made.  You should be able to run
both at once in order to do your testing (don't access the same data files
at the same time from different versions though!).  Since you won't have
changed ANYTHING in your current UniData installation, you always have that
as a fallback if something goes wrong when you try to use the new version.

Ideally, you will need a window of an hour or so with no users on the system
while you do the upgrade install (updatesys) because it will try to shut
down UniData 5.2 for you might not quite get it right if you've had to
change UDTHOME beforehand.  Better to kick folk off, shutdown the real 5.2,
switch UDTHOME/UDTBIN to point to the copy and then do your updatesys,
switch UDTHOME back and restart the original 5.2 to go with the 6.0 which
updatesys will have started.  You might be able to get away without even
this hour, but ...

Cheers,

Ken
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RE: Productivity metrics

[Hona, David S]

I did a course of Function Point count years ago...we use it for a client of
ours...althought it is being phased out somewhat...

Here's the first thing we were told...and quote:

"Definition of Function Points:
- Function Points are a unit of measure
- Function Points measure the work product of software development
- The work-product is expressed in terms of functionality as seen by the
customer
- Function points DO NOT MEASURE the internal architectural or technological
complexity of an application"

There are there types of function point counts (FPC) (representing work done
by developers):
- Development (new development project)
- Enhancement (enhancement to an existing application)
- Application (counting an existing installed application) 

It is complex topic and more than a bit off-topic for this forum...also a
very very dry subject. *Yawn* ;-)

"Advantages of Function Points:

- Based on well-defined counting standards
- Based of the customer's logical perspective
- Applicable to new development, enhancements and maintenance
- Independent of technology and languages
- A consistent sizing metric"

It's not for everyone, but FPC has its place.

Regards,
David


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Dubery
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Productivity metrics


Hi all,

IBM initiated a metric called "Function Points" that attempts to provide a
means for measuring programming tools by the amount of code that has to be
written in order to produce a program of a certain complexity.

There have been several studies by which programming languages have been
ranked in terms of lines of code (LOC) per function point (FP)

Smalltalk, for example, is reckoned to have a ratio of 20 LOC per FP. Java
and C++ come in around the 50 mark.

Is anybody aware of studies that have applied this kind of scoring to the
BASIC used in MV databases, or any other study that seeks to rank
programming languages in terms of programmer producivity and that includes
MV BASIC?

Thanks

Bob
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RE: The future of U2

[Steve Mayo]

The way that jBase handles the problem is by requiring the database be
flattened out (i.e., no multivalues) and strict data typing. This is of
course the standard with 1NF databases. Unfortunately for most of us, it
means a complete redesign of the existing mv database structure. Over the
past several years, all new systems that I have developed have used 1NF.
Still most of the data still uses multivalues and would take years to
convert. :-)

Steve


>Implementation wise, I think there are some "right" and "wrong" decisions
that could be made. One of the "biggies" has to do with data typing, and
the "common" practice multiply defining a field for different purposes -
you know the drill - <1> might be a date, or a null, or some kind of flag.
>
>This would obviously have an impact on the ability to "get at" data with
SQL - assuming that records aren't stored as "blob/glob" as some products
do.
>
>The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is
"tight" if you are looking at walking down this path  and before you
say "we never do that", take a good, hard look at any temporary work files
your application might use as an intermediate staging point !!
>
>Ross Ferris
>Stamina Software
>Visage – an Evolution in Software Development
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
>>Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM
>>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>
>>I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit
>>SQL
>>against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for
>>anyone requiring SQL.
>>
>>More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using
>>this
>>model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2
>>view
>>of the data.  It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF,
then
>>implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has
>>some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for
>>web
>>services, for example.  Direct U2<-->XML would be much smarter, I would
>>think.
>>
>>--dawn
>>
>>Dawn M. Wolthuis
>>Tincat Group, Inc.
>>www.tincat-group.com
>>
>>Take and give some delight today.
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of Tom Firl
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM
>>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>
>>Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be
>>interested
>>in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store
>>will require setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it
>>will...
>>
>>Tom Firl
>>Columbia Ultimate
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
>>> To: U2 Users Discussion List
>>> Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
>>> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
>>> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
>>> > be DB2 :-)
>>> >
>>> > Ross Ferris
>>> > Stamina Software
>>> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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RE: The future of U2

[Dawn M. Wolthuis]

Yes, an RDBMS is still a costly investment for any company and that won't
change by front-ending it with what is otherwise bigger-bang-for-the-buck
software.  The way DB2 does constraint-handling, strong-typing,
NULL-handling, etc are likely to be reasons to stick with what works and
doesn't require additional staffing.  

Relational databases are the king of the hill now, but they are definitely
more concerned about their rear view mirror than they have been in the past
couple of decades and in that rear view mirror are some sights that would
make me think twice before any investment in any SQL-based products.  But,
well, that's just an opinion.  

Smiles.  --dawn 

Dawn M. Wolthuis
Tincat Group, Inc.
www.tincat-group.com

Take and give some delight today.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ross Ferris
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 6:57 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: The future of U2

Implementation wise, I think there are some "right" and "wrong" decisions
that could be made. One of the "biggies" has to do with data typing, and the
"common" practice multiply defining a field for different purposes - you
know the drill - <1> might be a date, or a null, or some kind of flag.

This would obviously have an impact on the ability to "get at" data with SQL
- assuming that records aren't stored as "blob/glob" as some products do.

The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is "tight"
if you are looking at walking down this path  and before you say "we
never do that", take a good, hard look at any temporary work files your
application might use as an intermediate staging point !!

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage - an Evolution in Software Development


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM
>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>
>I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit
>SQL
>against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for
>anyone requiring SQL.
>
>More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using
>this
>model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2
>view
>of the data.  It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF, then
>implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has
>some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for
>web
>services, for example.  Direct U2<-->XML would be much smarter, I would
>think.
>
>--dawn
>
>Dawn M. Wolthuis
>Tincat Group, Inc.
>www.tincat-group.com
>
>Take and give some delight today.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Tom Firl
>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>
>Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be
>interested
>in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store
>will require setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it
>will...
>
>Tom Firl
>Columbia Ultimate
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
>> To: U2 Users Discussion List
>> Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>
>>
>> I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
>> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
>> > Subject: RE: The future of U2
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
>> > be DB2 :-)
>> >
>> > Ross Ferris
>> > Stamina Software
>> > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>>
>>
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[ADMIN] Re: The future of U2

[Clif Oliver]

OK, Joe. So you subscribed under a different address to get around 
having your inflammatory postings moderated. That is a clear act of 
unwillingness to cooperate with the policies of this list.

buh-bye



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On Apr 14, 2004, at 12:36, Joe Eugene wrote:

U2 TO DB2 ---> Best thing to Happen.

Hopefully IBM will start integrating all IBM DB's into Flagship RDBMS
UDB.
Joe Eugene

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Roger Glenfield
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:21 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: The future of U2
I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.

Roger

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ross Ferris
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: The future of U2
I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
be DB2 :-)
Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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Re: The future of U2

[Clif Oliver]

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On Apr 14, 2004, at 13:39, Tom Firl wrote:

U2 TO DB2 ---> Best thing to Happen.
H... I don't think I'll touch that one other than to say that only 
time will tell.

Tom Firl
Columbia Ultimate
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Re: The future of U2

[Clif Oliver]

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On Apr 14, 2004, at 13:45, Gordon Glorfield wrote:

I don't really care what the backend DB engine is as long as I can use 
my
favorite set of tools to develop applications.  But if a change to DB2 
or
whatever is going to force me to severly change the way I operate, 
then I'd
see that as a bad thing.

Gordon J. Glorfield
Sr. Applications Developer
MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company)
301-360-8839




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[AD] Re: Is anyone using a spooler wrapper for universe on Windows?

[Clifton Oliver]

I have a product called ESP (Extended SPooler) that can replace JRT. It 
runs on both Unix, Linux, and Windows UV systems. UD is in the works. 
(Did I mention that it cost a *lot* less )

Please contact me off line or at the number below for more details.

--

Regards,

Clif

~~~
W. Clifton Oliver, CCP
CLIFTON OLIVER & ASSOCIATES
Tel: +1 619 460 5678Web: www.oliver.com
~~~
On Apr 14, 2004, at 15:05, Bobby Ramirez wrote:

We are migrating from a unix box, to Windows 2000 server, and have a 
3rd
party spooler application called JRT. There is no JRT spooler app for
windows. It is a slick little app that uses SP commands to manipulate 
jobs
in the spool queue.

I know printing on windows is handled by print manager, but i could 
quickly
use a product that manipulates &hold& files entries. I would even 
consider
looking into vbscrips to do some of this also.

I would be interested in hearing what others are doing about printing 
from
Universe on NT. I've setup different printers with different seperator 
pages
but this JRT programs is nice because an operator can reprint jobs 
that used
sp-assign HS. And she can print ranges of pages.

thanks.

Bob
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RE: The future of U2

[Ross Ferris]

I thought this was done "behind the scenes" ? For our part we are looking with 
interest at what comes out of the mix in terms of XML & databases over the next 18 
months or so from the "big 3" - Oracle, SQL Server & DB2.

If we get these facilities "natively" from U2 (or another mv player), great. If not, 
then we have "Plan V" :-)



Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage – an Evolution in Software Development


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Steve Mayo
>Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 4:01 AM
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>
>The way that jBase handles the problem is by requiring the database be
>flattened out (i.e., no multivalues) and strict data typing. This is of
>course the standard with 1NF databases. Unfortunately for most of us, it
>means a complete redesign of the existing mv database structure. Over the
>past several years, all new systems that I have developed have used 1NF.
>Still most of the data still uses multivalues and would take years to
>convert. :-)
>
>Steve
>
>
>>Implementation wise, I think there are some "right" and "wrong" decisions
>that could be made. One of the "biggies" has to do with data typing, and
>the "common" practice multiply defining a field for different purposes -
>you know the drill - <1> might be a date, or a null, or some kind of flag.
>>
>>This would obviously have an impact on the ability to "get at" data with
>SQL - assuming that records aren't stored as "blob/glob" as some products
>do.
>>
>>The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is
>"tight" if you are looking at walking down this path  and before you
>say "we never do that", take a good, hard look at any temporary work files
>your application might use as an intermediate staging point !!
>>
>>Ross Ferris
>>Stamina Software
>>Visage – an Evolution in Software Development
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
>>>Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM
>>>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>>>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>>
>>>I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit
>>>SQL
>>>against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for
>>>anyone requiring SQL.
>>>
>>>More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using
>>>this
>>>model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2
>>>view
>>>of the data.  It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF,
>then
>>>implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has
>>>some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for
>>>web
>>>services, for example.  Direct U2<-->XML would be much smarter, I would
>>>think.
>>>
>>>--dawn
>>>
>>>Dawn M. Wolthuis
>>>Tincat Group, Inc.
>>>www.tincat-group.com
>>>
>>>Take and give some delight today.
>>>
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>Behalf Of Tom Firl
>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM
>>>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>>>Subject: RE: The future of U2
>>>
>>>Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation?  I'd be
>>>interested
>>>in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store
>>>will require setting up a Universe SQL schema.  I'm supposing that it
>>>will...
>>>
>>>Tom Firl
>>>Columbia Ultimate
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM
 To: U2 Users Discussion List
 Subject: RE: The future of U2


 I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'.

 Roger

 > -Original Message-
 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > Behalf Of Ross Ferris
 > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM
 > To: U2 Users Discussion List
 > Subject: RE: The future of U2
 >
 >
 > I'd also think that rather than "any" database, the target would
 > be DB2 :-)
 >
 > Ross Ferris
 > Stamina Software
 > Visage - an Evolution in Software Development
 >
 >
 > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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RE: Productivity metrics

[Ross Ferris]

The other interesting thing I noted @ the HELLO WORLD site was that we had FULL source 
code for things like delphi - even though 99.9% was produced automatically from the 
IDE !

Ross Ferris
Stamina Software
Visage – an Evolution in Software Development


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Brian Leach
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2004 11:25 PM
>To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
>Subject: RE: Productivity metrics
>
>Ok I see.
>Meaningless then.
>You can write some pretty hairy nested stuff into a single 'C' statement.
>How is that counted?
>If you call a library function, do you count all the lines in that
>function?
>If you execute a SQL command under TSQL, how much of the SQL library is
>included in the tally?
>
>It's like those old programming competitions - write the shortest program
>in
>any computer language that prints itself, and so forth (before anyone pipes
>up, my entry: pg $0)
>
>I used a class generator a while back to generate VB classes to access a
>data source. The classes are horrible, complicated, long winded things -
>but
>since they were machine generated and provide just about every method I
>might need my productivity was actually improved by using them.
>
>A uvCase screen is built using a screen designer or from a short script.
>But
>the screen interpreter includes thousands of lines of Delphi code. Again,
>which is counted?
>
>As a measure it all sounds a bit pointless - I can't see how number of
>statements relates to programmer productivity when there are so many
>different ways to pare a moggie.
>
>Brian
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Bob Dubery
>Sent: 14 April 2004 12:59
>To: U2 Users Discussion List
>Subject: Re: Productivity metrics
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Brian Leach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:55 PM
>Subject: RE: Productivity metrics
>
>
>> By 'lines of code' I wonder what they mean?
>>
>> Lines of source code? Number of Actions? Source or executable statements?
>I've seen it expressed as lines of source code or as "statements"
>
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Re: Productivity metrics

[Mark Johnson]

Oh boy, I can smell the debates regarding programming styles in lieu of
reducing lines of code. Could this be where GOTO's have their day.
my 1 cent.
- Original Message -
From: "Bob Dubery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 7:24 AM
Subject: Productivity metrics


> Hi all,
>
> IBM initiated a metric called "Function Points" that attempts to provide a
> means for measuring programming tools by the amount of code that has to be
> written in order to produce a program of a certain complexity.
>
> There have been several studies by which programming languages have been
> ranked in terms of lines of code (LOC) per function point (FP)
>
> Smalltalk, for example, is reckoned to have a ratio of 20 LOC per FP. Java
> and C++ come in around the 50 mark.
>
> Is anybody aware of studies that have applied this kind of scoring to the
> BASIC used in MV databases, or any other study that seeks to rank
> programming languages in terms of programmer producivity and that includes
> MV BASIC?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob
>
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Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2)

[Clif Oliver]

I did not mean to kill the part of the discussion that was being held 
under the previous Subject line that was talking about other-than-U2 
datastores in a U2 environment. I seem to have caused some confusion 
with my end-of-thread notice under that subject line. I was only 
referring to responding to the troll (who has been unsubscribed).

Please feel free to continue the discussion.

(Sorry 'bout that folks. No collateral damage intended!)

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Clif Oliver]

In the words from Hitchhiker's Guide, "Oh, no. Not again."

On Apr 14, 2004, at 19:42, Mark Johnson wrote:

reducing lines of code. Could this be where GOTO's have their day.
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Jbase handles multivalue on RDBMS

[djordan]

Hi Steve

Just to correct you, jbase does not require you to move to 1NF files to
run on an RDBMS.  Jbase will port multi dimensional data across to an
RDBMS and automatically handle the conversion to multiple tables
invisible to the application.  The issue is in the quality of the
dictionary, like lengths and data types that RDBMS do not handle
breaking the rules.  Jbase does handle a lot of these issues and I would
assume IBM will incorporate that in U2.  Also in such an environment you
would not move all your files over to an RDBMS, it would make sense to
leave work files and control files in Universe which are usualy the
worst offenders.  If you wish to make your application portable in a
future environment like this, look at SQLising your files including
multivalues and starting cleaning your data as this will be your biggest
issue, not multivalues.

Just another point, jbase does the same for Cache, which is another
multi-dimensional database, although not PICK.

Regards

David Jordan

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Steve Mayo
Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 4:01 AM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: The future of U2


The way that jBase handles the problem is by requiring the database be
flattened out (i.e., no multivalues) and strict data typing. This is of
course the standard with 1NF databases. Unfortunately for most of us, it
means a complete redesign of the existing mv database structure. Over
the past several years, all new systems that I have developed have used
1NF. Still most of the data still uses multivalues and would take years
to convert. :-)

Steve

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Bob Dubery]

> It is complex topic and more than a bit off-topic for this forum...also a
> very very dry subject. *Yawn* ;-)
I'm not wanting to discuss the actual metric. We're having the regular
debate about should we keep going with UV and if not what should we
consider. One of the strengths of MV platforms has always been that they
allow programmers to develop quickly. I'm hoping to be able to quantify that
rather than give management the benefit of a gut feel.

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Bruce Nichol]

Goo'day, Bob,

At 15:42 15/04/04, you wrote:


I'm not wanting to discuss the actual metric. We're having the regular
debate about should we keep going with UV and if not what should we
consider. One of the strengths of MV platforms has always been that they
allow programmers to develop quickly. I'm hoping to be able to quantify that
rather than give management the benefit of a gut feel.


Back in the days of yore, we "calculated" similar jobs at an overall rate 
of 2/5ths VM ("Pick" in those days) involvement to 
"normal"  (then-)mainstream COBOL & "4GL" development.   (I use the quotes 
advisedly!   ).

As often as it was checked, it seemd to work out at about that rate - 
sufficient for manpower/estimating/costing/quoting, anyway.  And it 
wasn't only the 5 "normal" people (I use the quotes advisedly!  ) vs 2 
Pickies either.

But, put it this way:   2 ("qualified S&P") Pickies seemed to achieve about 
what the 5 ( S/A, S&P, programmers + 1 trainee) others did in their 
suiteAt the same time, salary comparisons were at about a 4:1 
ratio, so Pick jobs cost about 1/4 t'other - as far as labour was 
concerned.   On-costs, secretarial, management, offices, furniture, phone, 
etc, lessened that ratio a bit..

YMMV.

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Talon Computer Services
ALBURYNSW 2640
Australia
Tel: +61 (0)411149636
Fax: +61 (0)260232119
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is! 

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Re: Productivity metrics

[Bob Dubery]

- Original Message -
From: "Bruce Nichol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Productivity metrics



> Back in the days of yore, we "calculated" similar jobs at an overall rate
> of 2/5ths VM ("Pick" in those days) involvement to
> "normal"  (then-)mainstream COBOL & "4GL" development.   (I use the quotes
> advisedly!   ).

Which'd put MV Basic at at about 35 LOC/FP.

Interestingly that's not far off the score I arrived at by gut feel.

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