Re: DUCET and supplementary foldings (was: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic)

From: "Asmus Freytag" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have a certain sympathy for the idea of designing UCA so that the > untailored *default* works for such kind of multilingual usage. However, > the other use of the DUCET is to be the most convenient base for applying > all tailorings. I have a certain s

Re: User Expectations for collation (was Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic)

I missed Mark's change in subject - so I replied to Marcin's message right now under the old subject line: - Original Message - From: "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 01:02

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 01:02 AM 7/10/2004, Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk wrote: But there are cases when I would prefer to fold Polish diacritics in searches. It's basically every case when you are not sure that all stored data is using diacritics, Or when you are unsure how it is spelled, for example, looking up a perso

User Expectations for collation (was Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic)

< Zy Za < Åa < Zy and either (a) or (b): a) La < Åa < Ly// interleaved b) La < Ly < Åa// non-interleaved âMark - Original Message - From: "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, J

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

W liÅcie z piÄ, 09-07-2004, godz. 19:34 -0700, Asmus Freytag napisaÅ: > o-slash, can be analyzed as o and slash, even though that's not done > canonically in Unicode. Allowing users outside Scandinavia to perform > fuzzy searches for words with this character is useful. > > In this view of fol

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 08:33 PM 7/9/2004, John Cowan wrote: > I have just reviewed this list and found it odd that Hebrew presentation > forms are included but Arabic ones are not. The specification actually called only for Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic; I added Hebrew pour la lagniappe. If someone wants to add Arabic,

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk scripsit: > I have just reviewed this list and found it odd that Hebrew presentation > forms are included but Arabic ones are not. The specification actually called only for Latin, Greek, and Cyrillic; I added Hebrew pour la lagniappe. If someone wants to add Arabic, I encourage the

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 17:06, Mark Davis wrote: I agree with Michael -- diacritic folding is a useful folding to add, independent of the UCA. Also, Peter's remark that: "And it is already covered by the Unicode collation algorithm and default table..." is incorrect. ... Well, I think this depends on whether

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.09, 17:06, Mark Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > we do not decompose characters like U+00D8 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O > WITH STROKE. [I have felt from the beginning that it was a mistake > to not be consistent in our decompositions Where can one join your party? ;-) > -- but that is wa

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Michael Everson writes: > I don't agree that Dvorak is "the English name" > for the composer. But I don't agree that "façade" > is correctly spelled in English without the ç > either. The Society for Pure English () disagreed: "We

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

ROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 07:40 Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: "Peter Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > But Kaplan is referring to something quite different

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> > But I don't agree that "façade" > > is correctly spelled in English without the ç > > either. > > On this, we must resign ourselves to disagreement. If we abandon the cedilla I would almost prefer fasade or fakade, since one knows where it's going and the other where it's been. -- J

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 15:40, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: From: "Peter Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> But Kaplan is referring to something quite different, optionally ignoring diacritics in search operations. This is indeed desirable, so that a single search can match both Dvorak and DvoÅÃk for example, an

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael Everson > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 2:30 AM > I wouldn't consider that good typography, that's all I&#x

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Michael Everson > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:13 AM > At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: > >Of course, that&

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

From: "Peter Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > But Kaplan is referring to something quite different, optionally > ignoring diacritics in search operations. This is indeed desirable, so > that a single search can match both Dvorak and DvoÅÃk for example, and > so that the one doing the search does not ne

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Quoting Michael Everson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: > >Of course, that's true about Köln. My point was that after all this time, > >the use of Dvorak or Tchaikovsky are *now* the English names for what > >originated in a different language. > > I don't agre

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 06:55 -0700 2004-07-09, Mark Davis wrote: Of course, that's true about Köln. My point was that after all this time, the use of Dvorak or Tchaikovsky are *now* the English names for what originated in a different language. I don't agree that Dvorak is "the English name" for the composer. But I d

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

- From: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mark Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 02:29 Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > At 17:43 -0700 2004-

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

OTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 22:12 Subject: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Davis > > Sent: Frid

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Pronunciation keys in dictionaries are a kind of transliteration. We still need those (well, I do, at least). Ted On Friday, July 09, 2004 1:08 AM, Jony Rosenne wrote: > Now that we have moved from the world of typewriters, that imposed technical > constraints on the writer, such as being able to

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 17:43 -0700 2004-07-08, Mark Davis wrote: > Why would anyone want to do that? I tend to be with you on this, that it does little harm to retain accents. However, most major periodic popular publications have this practice; for example The Economist keeps accents for French, German, Spanish, Ita

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 09/07/2004 01:41, Michael (michka) Kaplan wrote: From: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think it's stupid (in general) to argue for stripping a letter of diacritics. If a reader is ignorant of their meaning, that can be cured. But if they are meaningful, stripping them is just misspell

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Starner > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > > &g

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne scripsit: > I doubt it makes much sense to the casual reader. Witness how nearly every > radio and television pronounces New Delhi as New Del-hi. O pity the poor poor Zippity, For he can eat nothing but Greli, A plant that grows only In New Caledony, While the Zippity lives in

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Sorry, I meant Leghorn. Jony > -Original Message- > From: Simon Montagu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:19 AM > To: Jony Rosenne > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >ara

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne wrote: Cologne is not a transliteration of KÃln but the English name of the city, just as Munich, > Rome, Moscow, The Hague, Longhorn, Venice, Jaffa and Jerusalem. Would that be the English name for Windows Ligorno?

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> transliteration is no longer needed or useful. Transliteration > is a one-to-one mapping between scripts, and the reader needs to be familiar > with both scripts and the transliteration rules to make sense of it. That's not true. Looking at Wright's Historical German Grammar, I see "Goth. ba

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

From: "Mark Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > In one sense, the using "Dvorak" in English for "DvoÅÃk" is little different > than using "Cologne" in English for "KÃln". Both are transcriptions into a > form that has become more or less customary. If at all, "KÃln" is a German and "Cologne" is a French

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Davis > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:43 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Michael Everson > Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >ar

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

9, 2004 1:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > > > At 14:57 -0700 2004-07-08, Mike Ayers wrote: > > >When transcribing to English, however, removal of the caron (macron? > >A

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

m: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 15:13 Subject: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > At 14:57 -0700 2004-07-08, Mike Ayers wrote: > > >When transcribing to Englis

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

From: "Michael Everson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I think it's stupid (in general) to argue for stripping a letter of > diacritics. If a reader is ignorant of their meaning, that can be > cured. But if they are meaningful, stripping them is just misspelling > the words they belong to. Why would anyone

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 14:57 -0700 2004-07-08, Mike Ayers wrote: When transcribing to English, however, removal of the caron (macron? Apologies, but I tend to forget the names of most accents) would be most acceptable (for American English, at least). NOT in good typography, ever. It gave me some insight into the Eu

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabicMike Ayers wrote: >> it would >> definitely be completely unacceptable to write e.g. HaÅek's name >> (a famous Czech satyrist) as Hasek. > >When transcribing to English, however, removal of the caron > (macron? Apolog

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of busmanus > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:27 PM > I do not pretend to know, but "accept" is probably not the b

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

You will need a Unicode font with Central-European an IPA characters to read my examples. Mike Ayers wrote: > Perhaps it is. But then it's partly due to the "lazy" tradition. Are you implying that, had printers throughout the centuries put the effort into faithfully reproducing every obsc

Re: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

This thread seems to have gone far enough off-topic. Please keep to the topic or take comments off list. Regards from your, -- Sarasvati > Añd whàt shåll wë câll thë ãddítiõn of dîacrìtícs bÿ spämmêrs, ïñ ân > ättëmpt tò fóòl spåm fîltêrs? > > What about things like "PEN|S en|argement"

Re: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.08, 09:56, Peter Kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Añd whàt shåll wë câll thë ãddítiõn of dîacrìtícs bÿ spämmêrs, ïñ >> ân ättëmpt tò fóòl spåm fîltêrs? >> > An opportunity for spam filters to employ diacritic folding. What about things like "PEN|S en|argement" or "G00D L00KING |\/|EN

Re: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 08/07/2004 06:44, Curtis Clark wrote: John Cowan wrote: The Unicode people are probably going to standardize on calling it "diacritic folding", by analogy to the term "case folding". Añd whàt shåll wë câll thë ãddítiõn of dîacrìtícs bÿ spämmêrs, ïñ ân ättëmpt tò fóòl spåm fîltêrs? An opportun

RE: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Sanan virkkoi, noin nimesi Curtis Clark: > Añd whàt shåll wë câll thë ãddítiõn of dîacrìtícs bÿ spämmêrs, ïñ ân > ättëmpt tò fóòl spåm fîltêrs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_umlaut

Re: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Curtis Clark wrote: > John Cowan wrote: >> The Unicode people are probably going to standardize on calling >> it "diacritic folding", by analogy to the term "case folding". > > AÃd whÃt shÃll wà cÃll thà ÃddÃtiÃn of dÃacrÃtÃcs bà spÃmmÃrs, Ãà > Ãn ÃttÃmpt tà fÃÃl spÃm fÃltÃrs? ááÈá. -Doug Ewell

Re: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

John Cowan wrote: The Unicode people are probably going to standardize on calling it "diacritic folding", by analogy to the term "case folding". Añd whàt shåll wë câll thë ãddítiõn of dîacrìtícs bÿ spämmêrs, ïñ ân ättëmpt tò fóòl spåm fîltêrs? -- Curtis Clark http://www.csupomona

FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: FW: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic     John notified me that he intended to CC the list, so here it is: -Original Message- From: John Cowan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 8:32 AM To: Mike Ayers Subject:

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 07/07/2004 17:04, Mike Ayers wrote: ... Are you just trying to kick up dirt here, or were you genuinely unaware that National Geographic is an American publication? I specified "American", as opposed to "English speaking" in this case for that reason, also because the British are kno

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:04 PM > On 2004.07.07, 00:49, Mike Ayers <[EMAIL PROTE

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

An interesting historical case is Istanbul, whose name comes from the Greek phrase "eis ten poli" ("to the city" -- first "e" is epsilon, and second "e" is eta). That phrase tended to be pronounced "istimboli" and with dissimilation "istamboli". So when the Turks changed the name from Constantino

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk a Ãcrit : On 07/07/2004 07:08, Raymond Mercier wrote: This is a possible derivation. If this is Gerd's source, he failed to make the point that "istimboli" was not a Greek name of the city but a colloquial pronunciation of a phrase. And the source of that may be the following old Germ

Re: [OT] Istanbul [was: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic]

On 07/07/2004 11:22, Philipp Reichmuth wrote: ... Are you sure about the Turks and the initial consonant clusters? I always thought it depends on the actual cluster structure. Modern Turkish at least has loanwords such as "brokoli", "graten" or the notorious "spor" where the problem is the word

[OT] Istanbul [was: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic]

Constantinopel hayssen die Chrichen Istimboli und die ThÃrcken hayssends Stambol; The Greeks had no problem with initial consonant clusters but the Turks did, so it is much more likely that the Turks added the initial I to a Greek word starting with ST, just as Spanish and French add initial E b

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 07/07/2004 07:08, Raymond Mercier wrote: ... I was only trying to grasp the sense of Gerd's throw-away remark (which I hope he will explain), but I appreciate the difficulties you raise, especially the point about the Greek beta as the phoneme /v/ . That particular difficulty at least doesn't ap

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk writes > This is more complicated than it looks. The Greek form Istimboli is > impossible for the period as Greek had no [b] sound, for Î was > pronounced [v] except that later and perhaps already at that period ÎÏ > was pronounced [b] at least in foreign words. So is the Greek consonan

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.07, 00:49, Mike Ayers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Are you implying that, had printers throughout the centuries put the > effort into faithfully reproducing every obscure symbol I spell my own name with some of those obscure symbols, thank you. Obscure indeed -- that's the last thing I

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of busmanus > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 3:34 PM > Perhaps it is. But then it's partly due to the "lazy" traditi

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

Mike Ayers wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 7:28 AM > On 2004.07.02, 21:53, Mike Ayers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> On the other hand, maybe "Ha Tinh" is just lazy typography. > > > > From

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 06/07/2004 20:47, Raymond Mercier wrote: Gerd Schumacher wrote > I think, the underying meaning of Istimboli must be > "town at the isthmus", which makes sense, indeed. How does that work ? Do you mean istim<ÎÏÎÎÎÏ , bol<ÏÎÎÎÏ ? Raymond Mercier This is more complicated than it looks. The Gree

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Patrick Andries scripsit: > >So the change is more like Beijing -> Peking than Berlin -> Kitchener. > > Without a political change Constantinople would not have changed name in > a matter of days (at least as far as the officials were concerned). In > any case, it is not a transliteration prob

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk scripsit: > Well, did Gdansk/Danzig change its name backwards and forwards several > times over history (thank you, Qrczak, for the interesting information > about that), or was it simply that it had different names in different > languages? Yes to both. Its name in Polish is Gdan'

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

ï Gerd Schumacher wrote > I think, the underying meaning of Istimboli must be > "town at the isthmus", which makes sense, indeed. How does that work ? Do you mean istim<ÎÏÎÎÎÏ , bol<ÏÎÎÎÏ ?   Raymond Mercier

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.06, 14:00, Peter Kirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > sometimes the names in different languages are related, and > sometimes they are not e.g. Turku/Åbo in Finland, or > Yerushalayim/al-Quds, or Dublin/ Baile Átha Cliath. (Formerly, with U+1E6B for the "th".) > This makes it not a trans

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 7:28 AM > On 2004.07.02, 21:53, Mike Ayers <[EMAIL P

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

;Unicode Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Mark Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Mike Ayers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 09:40 Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > RE: Lo

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> Patrick Andries scripsit: > [PA] I wrote this a bit too fast this morning (first message !). I > believe the origin of Istanbul is a bit too obscure to decide whether it > is due to a transcription or a complete name change. Just to confuse > things further Konstantaniye was apparently used b

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 06/07/2004 13:05, Patrick Andries wrote: Patrick Andries a Ãcrit : So the change is more like Beijing -> Peking than Berlin -> Kitchener. Without a political change Constantinople would not have changed name in a matter of days (at least as far as the officials were concerned). In any case,

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Patrick Andries a Ãcrit : So the change is more like Beijing -> Peking than Berlin -> Kitchener. Without a political change Constantinople would not have changed name in a matter of days (at least as far as the officials were concerned). In any case, it is not a transliteration problem (Beijin

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Peter Kirk a Ãcrit : On 03/07/2004 00:07, Patrick Andries wrote: o very different political realities (before and after 1453). Cities change names without going through transliterattions, cf. Berlin (Ontario) becoming Kitchener in 1916. But Constantinople -> Istanbul is not in fact this kind of

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

W liście z wto, 06-07-2004, godz. 10:50 +0100, Peter Kirk napisał: > I guess another similar change would be Danzig -> Gdansk, but > I don't know where the initial G came from so possibly the Polish form > is older than the German. A name with initial "Gd" is older than with "D": http://ency

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 03/07/2004 00:07, Patrick Andries wrote: Jony Rosenne a Ãcrit : -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John H. Jenkins Peking for BeÇjÄng. :-) Or Constantinople for Istanbul. :-) Two very different political real

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

busmanus wrote: Philipp Reichmuth wrote: If we were starting from scratch today, we'd probably do better. (I hope we would retain the "v" sound in "ÐÐÑÐÐÐ" instead of converting it to "f".) Except there is no "v sound", only an "f sound" in the Russian pronunciation of ÐÐÑÐÐÐ due to regre

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

Philipp Reichmuth wrote: If we were starting from scratch today, we'd probably do better. (I hope we would retain the "v" sound in "ÐÐÑÐÐÐ" instead of converting it to "f".) Except there is no "v sound", only an "f sound" in the Russian pronunciation of ÐÐÑÐÐÐ due to regressive assimilat

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Philipp Reichmuth scripsit: > "Chykoffskee" is pretty accurate, actually. Thank you. I have long since forgotten all the (very small amount of) Russian I ever learned, but I retain a firm grip on its phonology due to an interesting paedagogical device. My Russian instructor spent the first week

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Philipp Reichmuth a Ãcrit : Except there is no "v sound", only an "f sound" in the Russian pronunciation of ÐÐÑÐÐÐ due to regressive assimilation. "Chykoffskee" is pretty accurate, actually. I'd say Tchaikovsky is just a spelling taken over from French at a time when French was pretty much

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Doug Ewell schrieb: Transcription does not require roundtrip. It is intended in this case for the English speaker to be able to deliver an approximate pronunciation adapted to his native vocal capabilities. Except when it doesn't. We write Tchaikovsky, not Chykoffskee. But then, English spelling i

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Doug Ewell scripsit: > On the contrary, untransliterated (or untranscribed) text can only be > read by people who know the original script. Transliterations and > transcriptions at least give the Latin-script-only reader a fighting > chance to pronounce the text. Transliterations don't work so

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Michael Everson wrote: >> But if the reader merely removes the diacriticals, > > He means, I think, that the reader ignores them, not knowing what they > mean. Same thing. If the reader ignores the diacritic, he is reading one letter as another, and so he is not really using the transliteration

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

At 14:22 -0700 2004-07-03, Doug Ewell wrote: Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote: Only specialists can make sense of them, Pray tell, why so? Is the letter "â" an usuperable obstacle for those who know only the letter "a"?... Can't the "remove diacriticals" action be performed in the reader's br

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Anto'nio Martins-Tuva'lkin wrote: >> Only specialists can make sense of them, > > Pray tell, why so? Is the letter "Ã" an usuperable obstacle for those > who know only the letter "a"?... > > Can't the "remove diacriticals" action be performed in the reader's > brain, instead of in the typesetter'

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.03, 18:02, Jony Rosenne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > transliterations, which use various uncommon letter and diacritics > combinations to achieve roundtrip accuracy. OK. > Only specialists can make sense of them, Pray tell, why so? Is the letter "â" an usuperable obstacle for those w

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

Jony Rosenne wrote: These are transcriptions. I was talking about transliterations, which use various uncommon letter and diacritics combinations to achieve roundtrip accuracy. Only specialists can make sense of them, and they can just as easily read the original. Not necessarily. E.g. I find trans

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

: Doug Ewell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 7:50 PM > To: Unicode Mailing List > Cc: Jony Rosenne > Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > > > Jony Rosenne wrote: > > > And with the ava

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

John Cowan wrote: > Jony Rosenne scripsit: >> Transcription does not require roundtrip. It is intended in this case >> for the English speaker to be able to deliver an approximate >> pronunciation adapted to his native vocal capabilities. > > Except when it doesn't. We write Tchaikovsky, not Chy

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne wrote: > And with the availability of Unicode, I think the need for > transliteration is fading. It seems that these schemes can only be > used by people who know the transliterated script. On the contrary, untransliterated (or untranscribed) text can only be read by people who know

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabicMark Davis wrote: > In that case, we'd call it a transcription, since it doesn't roundtrip > from source to target back to source. It is actually quite common for > style guides for non-academic publications to have a restrict

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabicMike Ayers wrote: > Trivia question: Which Vietnamese city does my atlas spell correctly, > much to the chagrin of the Vietnamese? Probably Saigon. (Or is it Sai Gon?) -Doug Ewell Fullerton, California http://users.adelph

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

On 2004.07.02, 21:53, Mike Ayers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On the other hand, maybe "Ha Tinh" is just lazy typography. > > From National Geographic? Medoubts. This is a deliberate removal > of the diacritics unfamiliar to English readers, and is a > traditional way to present foreign words.

Re: Hausa: Boko<->Ajami? (RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic)

4 21:52 Subject: Hausa: Boko<->Ajami? (RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic) > I've read selected messages in this thread (on Unicode list) and some messages > bring to mind the thought of developing routines or standards to permit > toggli

Hausa: Boko<->Ajami? (RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic)

I've read selected messages in this thread (on Unicode list) and some messages bring to mind the thought of developing routines or standards to permit toggling back and forth between standard Latin and Arabic transcriptions for the same language, such as between the Boko and Ajami writing of Hausa.

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne a écrit : > > >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John H. Jenkins >> >> >> >>Peking for Beǐjīng. :-) >> >> > >Or Constantinople for Istanbul. :-) > Two very different political realities (before and after 1453).

[totally OT] Mohawk, Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Mike Ayers a Ãcrit : > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Chris Harvey > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:17 AM > Perhaps one could think of "Ha Tinh" as the English word for > the city, like "Rome" (English) for "Roma" (Italian), or > Tokyo (English) for "TÅkyÅ" (English t

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> "TÅkyÅ" is not an English transliteration of Japanese, as it uses diacritics not > found > in English. The correct English transliteration is in fact "Tokyo", which does not > round trip. My mistake, I meant Latin/Roman transliteration. > > or Kahnawake (English/French) for KahnawÃ:ke

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Chris Harvey > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:17 AM > Perhaps one could think of "Ha Tinh" as the English word fo

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John H. Jenkins > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:48 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration > standards latin- >arabic > >

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of John H. Jenkins > æ Jul 2, 2004 11:17 AM æïChris Harvey æåï > > > Perhaps one could think of "Ha Tinh" as t

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Jony Rosenne scripsit: > Transcription does not require roundtrip. It is intended in this case for > the English speaker to be able to deliver an approximate pronunciation > adapted to his native vocal capabilities. Except when it doesn't. We write Tchaikovsky, not Chykoffskee. -- "I could danc

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

æ Jul 2, 2004 11:17 AM æïChris Harvey æåï Perhaps one could think of "Ha Tinh" as the English word for the city, like "Rome" (English) for "Roma" (Italian), or Tokyo (English) for "TÅkyÅ" (English transliteration of Japanese), or Kahnawake (English/French) for KahnawÃ:ke (Mohawk). Or Peking for

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic ï In that case, we'd call it a transcription, since it doesn't roundtrip from source to target back to source. It is actually quite common for style guides for non-academic publications to have a res

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

schemes can only be used by people who know the transliterated script. Jony -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Ayers Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 8:24 PM To: 'Mark Davis'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Looking for transc

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

> OK, just because I do so love monkey wrenches, please explain what I found > in > my atlas: >Vietnamese English > --> >HaÌ TiÌnh Ha Tinh >In which we have a trancription/transliteration/taxonomy problem between >

RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin- >arabic

Title: RE: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Mark Davis > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 8:36 AM > Note: I am still speaking of transliterations (e.g. > transformations

Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic

t;[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 17:19 Subject: Re: Looking for transcription or transliteration standards latin->arabic > On 2004.07.01, 18:06, Mark Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > different transliterations for dif

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