On 11 Apr 2007, at 06:51, Chipp Walters wrote:
Been reading this same sort of doom and gloom regarding Microsoft for
years. When MS makes mistakes (frequently), they often do change their
course-- and quickly.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Dear Chipp
The problem
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From: Björnke von Gierke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: XP and Vista question
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:26:07 +0200
On 11 Apr 2007, at 06:51, Chipp Walters
At 5:22 PM -0600 4/11/07, ian wallace wrote:
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Kung Fu Bunny Theme pack
--
I was just about to post that same link.
The paper, a dry, pictureless but very informative and cleverly
written tome called A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content
Protection, describes troubles with the Content Protection
specification of Vista, Microsoft’s next operating system.
Been reading this same sort of doom and gloom regarding Microsoft for
years. When MS makes mistakes (frequently), they often do change their
course-- and quickly.
Back in 2002, MS announced Palladium trusted computing bound to the
chip, would be involved in it's next version of WinXP. With it,
Not sure if this link has already been posted but here is a
fascinating analysis of the costs repercussions of Vista's DRM
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html#author
There are many nice quotes in the article, here is just one-
Because Windows dominates the market and
Bob-
Saturday, March 10, 2007, 9:30:11 PM, you wrote:
Perhaps in the end, though, this is a healthier situation for
Linux. People need to migrate because Linux is a better system than
Windows, not only because it is cheaper. So now the Linux people
have to try even harder to prove its
Mark Wieder wrote:
The end may draweth nigh:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197700789
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197800480
http://gyaku.jp/en/index.php?cmd=contentviewpid=000112
Kay C Lan wrote:
Was falling into that same dream that Vista had ended piracy and that would
bring the PC world to a watershed moment of deciding to Buy or go Unix. Was
bought back to reality just yesterday when talking to a work colleague who
mentioned he was on Vista. The first 'real' Vista
On 3/4/07, Bob Warren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Such pirating will probably come to an end with the protective mechanisms
of Windows Vista. (Personally, I think that this marks the beginning of the
end of Microsoft. Allowing a certain amount of piracy was part of the secret
of their success,
In my own dream, I did it too, and a few days later MS showed up with a writ
summoning me to court for my crimes and misdemeanors. I publicized the event
massively. There was a huge groundswell of support which bought me the most
expensive lawyers in the EC, and when the case came to trial it
Peter,
Sorry to interrupt your dream, but according to this page:
http://www.parallels.com/en/products/desktop/os/
Running Vista under Parallels is supported.
-Chipp
On 3/6/07, Peter Alcibiades [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my own dream, I did it too, and a few days later MS showed up with a
I wonder how long MS will continue to sell XP home and pro now that
Vista is out... I guess there is still gobs of old equipment out
there that is not up to vista that could still be upgraded to XP and
make some $$, so i hope it will be around a while...
cheers,
jeff
Jeffrey Reynolds
Chipp wrote:
Bob,
There's no way Mac can be #1 unless they allow others to sell
hardware. Too many companies can't rely on a single-source hardware
solution.
Hey Chipp, I think you're getting me mixed up with Joe.
Leaving hopes on one side, my own
On the question of whether it's technically possible to run Vista under
virtualization, this author at Macworld.com of course never actually
tried, but notes that he had a dream about doing so, and reports what
happened in that dream:
http://www.macworld.com/2007/02/firstlooks/vistamac/index.php
Joe Wilkins wrote:
Bob,
Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still
doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as its
replacement, I predicted that there would one day be three systems
that would dominate the computer world. I believed that
You can count on it!
Thanks for the suggestion.
Joe Wilkins
On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Bob Warren wrote:
Joe Wilkins wrote:
Bob,
Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still
doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as
its replacement, I
Bob,
There's no way Mac can be #1 unless they allow others to sell
hardware. Too many companies can't rely on a single-source hardware
solution.
I spent a good bit of time messing around with Vista today on my Dad's
computer. Setting up printers, network connections, firewalls, etc..
It appears
Am I off-base in my thinking, and should just not worry about
XP disappearing in the next couple years?
I don't see XP disappearing for quite some time. MS cannot afford to walk
away from yesterday's operating system (or even the day before yesterday) -
they are in a totally different boat
When one produces a product as good as the Mac, what with the
dramatic improvements in speed and capacity, it is actually a service
to the customers that they be hurled toward buying something better.
I still have three, but could be 5 or 6 if I hadn't given the others
away, quite
I doubt whether the restrictions on virtualisation are valid and legally
enforceable.
If you have bought a retail copy of Vista, I believe MS will have no legal
authority to tell you what you can and cannot run it on. This is because, at
least in the EU, post sales restrictions on use are
Hi
One for the lawyers...
I read a lot about this restriction of using some editions of Vista
with virtual systems, but is it absolutely clear this use is
restricted? The following is the sentence from the EULA that I have
seen quoted in many places:
“USE WITH VIRTUALIZATION
Microsoft owns, sells and ships VirtualPC that includes a copy of XP. How
can they say you are not allowed to run it with Vista ( as a licensee,
owner, renter, whatever..) ?
Is their exclusion principle that you can only run it with their
virtualization software? Or only the high-end Vista
Luis wrote:
A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for
proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear
withe some distros.
If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu.
All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package
Peter Alcibiades wrote:
If you have bought a retail copy of Vista, I believe MS will have no legal
authority to tell you what you can and cannot run it on. This is because, at
least in the EU, post sales restrictions on use are anti-competitive and thus
unenforceable.
However, MS can
Good morning, Jim,
Obviously, whatever makes them the most money and their customers the
most discomfort. (smile)
Joe Wilkins
On Mar 3, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Jim Ault wrote:
Microsoft owns, sells and ships VirtualPC that includes a copy of
XP. How
can they say you are not allowed to run it
I said:
The very last thing we want to see is another monster like Microsoft,
but such a situation could well arise again if we do not maintain the
very mechanisms Linux was designed to neutralize.
--
That would have read more correctly as:
The very
Bob, I'm going to ask an apparently stupid question. Since I've been
a diehard Mac user since the Lisa, and it has always let me get so
much of my work done that I never even thought about looking at
anything else, will you please, as succinctly as possible, let us
know how this thing
Joe wrote:
Bob, I'm going to ask an apparently stupid question. Since I've been
a diehard Mac user since the Lisa, and it has always let me get so
much of my work done that I never even thought about looking at
anything else, will you please, as succinctly as possible, let us
know how
He he!! Thanks for that, after the first read I thought 'Set your
Linux to stun!
Cheers,
Luis.
On 3 Mar 2007, at 17:25, Bob Warren wrote:
I said:
The very last thing we want to see is another monster like
Microsoft, but such a situation could well arise again if we do not
maintain
Bob,
Thanks for your perspective. Way back in the 80s, when M$ was still
doing their DOS thing and Windows was just beginning to emerge as its
replacement, I predicted that there would one day be three systems
that would dominate the computer world. I believed that Macintosh
would be on
Joe, go to www.distrowatch.com for more enlightenment.
I'm less enthusiastic about Ubuntu than Richard, preferring the Debian that it
is based on. Some distributions:
When you know what you want: Debian.
For beginners - PCLinux
For minimalists or those wanting to learn Linux in detail:
Thank you Peter, my future free time has just expired! (smile)
Joe Wilkins
On Mar 3, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
Joe, go to www.distrowatch.com for more enlightenment.
I'm less enthusiastic about Ubuntu than Richard, preferring the
Debian that it
is based on. Some
Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the
future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp,
Parallels, etc)?
It sounds like Vista will be too demanding to be used on a Mac in a virtual
environ. Since authorization is required for any
Jim Ault wrote:
Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the
future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp,
Parallels, etc)?
Though I'm just hoping, I imagine that Apple will be making Boot Camp
compatible with Windows Vista. It
Jim,
My sources tell me that Vista runs fine under Boot Camp. It's just
not officially certified yet. Since Boot Camp is a true dual-boot
solution, you would be running Vista natively, so there shouldn't be
any trouble.
Reportedly, Parallels Desktop now supports Vista officially. I found
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:29:18 -0800, Jim Ault wrote:
Given that Microsoft will discontinue support for WinXP at some point in the
future, what does this mean for those who setup to use virtuals (Boot Camp,
Parallels, etc)?
It sounds like Vista will be too demanding to be used on a Mac in a
Ken Ray wrote:
Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used
in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or
Ultimate version to allow for that (BTW, they're getting a lot of heat
for that, which they *should* IMHO).
Disappointing, but sadly not
On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of
the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You
need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for that
(BTW, they're getting
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:09:48 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of
the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You
need to purchase the Business
Ken Ray wrote:
I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and
personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to
make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by
default, but existing XP computers may not be upgraded to Vista for
Roger.E.Eller wrote;
On 03/02/2007 at 1:28 PM, Ken Ray kray at sonsothunder.com wrote:
Actually it's kind of worse than that. Microsoft does not allow any of
the Basic or Home versions to be used in virtualilzed environments. You
need to purchase the Business or Ultimate version to allow for
Fantastic news. I just ordered a Home Version of XP to use with
Parallels.
Mark
On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:48 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Ken Ray wrote:
Microsoft does not allow any of the Basic or Home versions to be used
in virtualilzed environments. You need to purchase the Business or
H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't supported? Looking
below it would seem that Home versions are supported.
Mark
From the Parallels site:
Supported Guest Operating Systems
Microsoft Windows Guest Operating Systems:
• Windows Vista Business
• Windows Vista Enterprise
•
J. Landman Gay wrote:
Ken Ray wrote:
I'd figure it's more like 4-5 years at least - according to reviews and
personal experience, Vista just doesn't have enough going for it to
make people upgrade. New computers, of course, will come with Vista by
default, but existing XP computers may not
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:32:57 -0800, Mark Swindell wrote:
H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't supported? Looking
below it would seem that Home versions are supported.
Mark
From the Parallels site:
Supported Guest Operating Systems
Microsoft Windows Guest Operating
Ok. That's the other maddening thing about the Windows lineup. How
many variants can there be? How confusing can it get? Jeez.
Mark
On Mar 2, 2007, at 1:00 PM, Ken Ray wrote:
On Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:32:57 -0800, Mark Swindell wrote:
H. Is it just OEM Home versions that aren't
Hiya,
A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for
proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear
withe some distros.
If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu.
All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a
Luis wrote:
A passing suggestion: Try Ubuntu 6.0.6 LTS. It now has installers for
proprietary/'non-free' gfx card drivers, which used to be a bugbear
withe some distros.
If you're looking for a little more eye candy then try Kubuntu.
All fits on one CD, and the Synaptic Package Manager is a
On 3/2/07, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At least Apple has a business viability reason: Apple sells computers,
so if someone can run OS X on a non-Apple computer they lose a lot of money.
Hmmm.
Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even more than what I
pay for on
Chipp Walters wrote:
On 3/2/07, Richard Gaskin ambassador at fourthworld.com wrote:
At least Apple has a business viability reason: Apple sells computers,
so if someone can run OS X on a non-Apple computer they lose a lot of money.
Hmmm.
Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even
Last I saw, Apple sold Operating systems...for even more than what I
pay for on Windows (XP Home OEM is $99). I don't think they 'lose
money' when they sell their OS.
I think the idea is that they make way more money off of the
hardware. They could triple their OS market share, but if it
Chipp, how can you say this? You and I know Jobs has called for the
end of DRM on music; the labels made him do it -- and thank god
there's no DRM on the OSX installations.
And please everyone, if you want to talk about draconian DRM issues
and proprietary (mis)dealings, you HAVE TO
On 3 Mar 2007, at 00:09, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Here's the part I don't understand, though: Steve Jobs has
publicly said he would prefer to ditch the DRM, but that Apple does
it because the record companies insist on it. Why doesn't the EU
take the record labels to court?
Because the
On 3/2/07, Stephen Barncard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chipp, how can you say this? You and I know Jobs has called for the
end of DRM on music; the labels made him do it -- and thank god
there's no DRM on the OSX installations
With Apple, there's no fair playing with other hardware. Buy Apple
Just so no one thinks I *hate* Apple...
I own a ton of iPods, my Wife has 2, my daughter 1, and myself 2. They
just have the best design and software, hands down of anyone else. I
just never purchase music from their store. While I'm not all that
comfortable using a Mac, I own 2 of them,
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