subject:"Dual screen"

On 02/20/18 09:25, Ed Greshko wrote:
>  If I can only find the mini-HDMI cable that would connect
> to my laptop.  I have never used a TV as a monitor so I don't know how well 
> suited
> they are for this purpose.

I found my HDMI cable.  The TV is a 48 inch model.  It just so happens that its
preferred resolution is the same as my 11 inch laptop screen at 1920x1080.  The 
fonts
on my laptop are very crisp and clear.  On the TV, not so much when viewed 
close up. 
Better when viewed from a distance but still not as good as a monitor.

However, I think I may have found your problem.

Looking at the specs for your TV/monitor we find that the screen size is 23.5" 
with a
pixel density of 66ppi at the native resolution. In searching for articles on 
using
TV as monitor they recommend a display with no less than 80dpi.  I could not 
find the
specs on my TV's display.  It is about 3 years old.

Now compare that with my Asus monitors.  They are 25" displays with a pixel 
density
of 117ppi at their native resolution of 2560x1440

(I think PPD, pixel per degree, may be a better measure but that seems harder t 
come
by or calculate)

Everything is sharp and clear on my Asus monitors.

I think you have HW which is never going to be satisfactory as a monitor.  
Probably
others with better understanding of display technology have their opinion.

-- 
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out

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Re: Dual screen

On 02/20/18 09:25, Ed Greshko wrote:
> would not concentrate


would NOW concentrate

-- 
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out



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Re: Dual screen

On 02/20/18 04:14, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> Now I am running 1368x768
> I do not think that it is what I wanted.

As I've said before, that is the resolution your monitor is designed to provide 
the
best performance.

I would not concentrate on picking the best looking fonts.  I have a Samsung TV 
that
I could hook up to HDMI.  If I can only find the mini-HDMI cable that would 
connect
to my laptop.  I have never used a TV as a monitor so I don't know how well 
suited
they are for this purpose.

I have 2 ASUS monitors that operate at 2560x1440 and the fonts are crisp and 
clear.

-- 
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out

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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Pfeiffer

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:25:19 +0100
"Patrick Dupre"  wrote:

> Hello,
>  
> The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor configuration.
> It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent Asus Motherboard).
>  
> The new monitor says that it is running with a resolution 1920x1080@60Hz.
> I guess that it may be correct if I check on the pictures, but the bizarre 
> thing is that
> the characters are just difficult to read, like if there is a lack of 
> resolution.
> I can switch to 1366x768.

Oops -  just saw the resolution I recommended later on seems to
have worked from the beginning ...

I missed that. Sorry
-- 
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Re: Dual screen


> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 21:14:22 +0100
> "Patrick Dupre"  wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > > Two things you need to know. Read careful:
> > > 
> > > -- 0:
> > > You probably have a file like
> > > 
> > > ~/.config/monitors.xml 
> > > 
> > > in your home dir - or wherever. Find it. Read it: It might be that this 
> > > file keeps setting your monitor(s?) to wrong settings/resolutions, 
> > > if these values in that file do not correspond with the actual
> > > capabilities of your monitor(s) ...  
> > 
> > cat .config/monitors.xml
> > 
> >   
> > no
> > 
> >   SAM
> >   SyncMaster
> >   HVYL606149
> >   1600
> >   1200
> >   60
> >   0
> >   0
> >   normal
> >   no
> >   no
> >   yes
> >   no
> >   no
> > 
> > 
> >   SAM
> >   SAMSUNG
> >   0x
> >   1920
> >   1080
> 
> Last two lines seem to be wrong. But your xrandr command seems to have
> ignored them. Good, AFAICS  ... ;)
> 
> >   59.940200805664062
> >   1600
> >   0
> >   normal
> >   no
> >   no
> >   no
> >   no
> >   no
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > If in doubt: move the file away for a while - don't delete it. Then
> > > connect the external monitor.
> > > 
> > > -- 1:
> > > On many (?) computers there's something like a built-in (?) key combo: 
> > >  - Seems to work both on Linux and Windows.
> > > 
> > > If you have that on your computer, you might be able to change your
> > > monitor settings (external, and, IIRC, also the internal ones) with
> > > that combo: While this can be extremely convenient to attach
> > > monitors you can end up all monitors turning into black screens. In
> > > that case: press the combo again. If that does not help anymore I see
> > > four options to save you:  
> > 
> > I can switch to 1024x768 and back to 1366x768
> 
> And the fonts, and the rest, look nice at these resolutions?

Not really. The display is larger, it's all.


> 
> > 
> > Thank.
> 
> You're welcome! 
> -- 
> Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Pfeiffer

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 21:14:22 +0100
"Patrick Dupre"  wrote:

> > 
> > Two things you need to know. Read careful:
> > 
> > -- 0:
> > You probably have a file like
> > 
> > ~/.config/monitors.xml 
> > 
> > in your home dir - or wherever. Find it. Read it: It might be that this 
> > file keeps setting your monitor(s?) to wrong settings/resolutions, 
> > if these values in that file do not correspond with the actual
> > capabilities of your monitor(s) ...  
> 
> cat .config/monitors.xml
> 
>   
> no
> 
>   SAM
>   SyncMaster
>   HVYL606149
>   1600
>   1200
>   60
>   0
>   0
>   normal
>   no
>   no
>   yes
>   no
>   no
> 
> 
>   SAM
>   SAMSUNG
>   0x
>   1920
>   1080

Last two lines seem to be wrong. But your xrandr command seems to have
ignored them. Good, AFAICS  ... ;)

>   59.940200805664062
>   1600
>   0
>   normal
>   no
>   no
>   no
>   no
>   no
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > If in doubt: move the file away for a while - don't delete it. Then
> > connect the external monitor.
> > 
> > -- 1:
> > On many (?) computers there's something like a built-in (?) key combo: 
> >  - Seems to work both on Linux and Windows.
> > 
> > If you have that on your computer, you might be able to change your
> > monitor settings (external, and, IIRC, also the internal ones) with
> > that combo: While this can be extremely convenient to attach
> > monitors you can end up all monitors turning into black screens. In
> > that case: press the combo again. If that does not help anymore I see
> > four options to save you:  
> 
> I can switch to 1024x768 and back to 1366x768

And the fonts, and the rest, look nice at these resolutions?

> 
> Thank.

You're welcome! 
-- 
Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

I a a bit confused.

>
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:23:27 +0100
> "Patrick Dupre"  wrote:
> 
> 
> > Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> > HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> > axis) 609mm x 347mm
> >1366x768  59.79 +
> >1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.0024.00
> > 29.9723.98  
> 
> As Ed already pointed out: the asterisk (*) in the line above means your
> external monitor is set to  1920x1080, while its actual capabilities 
> can nicely handle only 1366x768. You can see that in the line before
> with the plus (+) sign in it. That's why - probably - your fonts on this
> monitor don't look as crisp as you want them. 
> 
> man xrandr  
> 
> >1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94  
> >1280x720  60.0050.0059.94  
> >1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
> >832x624   74.55  
> >800x600   72.1975.0060.32  
> >720x576   50.00  
> >720x576i  50.00  
> >720x480   60.0059.94  
> >720x480i  60.0059.94  
> >640x480   75.0072.8166.6760.0059.94  
> >720x400   70.08  
> >1920x1080_60.00  59.96  
> > DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> > axis) 408mm x 306mm
> 
> > 
> > I run
> >  xrandr --newmode "1920x1080_60.00"  173.00  1920 2048 2248 2576  1080 1083 
> > 1088 1120 -hsync +vsync
> 
> No. You changed the order of the commands. Quote of the BZ page:
> 
> ---
> 
> $ cvt 1360 768 
> # 1360x768 59.80 Hz (CVT) hsync: 47.72 kHz; pclk: 84.75 MHz
> Modeline "1360x768_60.00"   84.75  1360 1432 1568 1776  768 771 781 798
> -hsync +vsync
> 
> [copy/paste the resulting 'Modeline' from above into the next command:]
> 
> $ xrandr --newmode "1360x768_60.00"   84.75  1360 1432 1568 1776  768
> 771 781 798 -hsync +vsync $ xrandr --addmode HDMI-1 1360x768_60.00
> $ xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1360x768_60.00
> 
> --
> 
> So you run first
> 
> $ cvt 1366x768
 cvt 1366 768
# 1368x768 59.88 Hz (CVT) hsync: 47.79 kHz; pclk: 85.25 MHz
Modeline "1368x768_60.00"   85.25  1368 1440 1576 1784  768 771 781 798 -hsync 
+vsync


> 
> because this is max what your external monitor can handle, according to
> xrandr ...
> 
> then 
> copy/paste the resulting 'Modeline' from the first command  into the next
> command. See quote above:
> 
> $ xrandr --newmode .
xrandr --newmode "1368x768_60.00" 85.25  1368 1440 1576 1784  768 771 781 798 
-hsync +vsync
> $ xrandr --addmode .
 xrandr --addmode HDMI-1 1368x768_60.00
> $ xrandr --output HDMI-1 
xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1368x768_60.00

Now I am running 1368x768
I do not think that it is what I wanted.

> 
> > cvt 1920 1080
> > xrandr --addmode HDMI-1 1920x1080_60.00
> > xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1920x1080_60.00
> > 
> > The monitor responds that it switched to 1920 x 1080
> 
> Because you told the poor fellow to do exactly that ... :)
> 
> > 
> > 
> > I do not see any improvement.
> 
> Still astonished? ... ;)
> 
> > DP-1 is the old (but sharp monitor)
> > HDMI-1 is the new (but not sharp monitor)
> 
> Good to know ...
> 
> Two things you need to know. Read careful:
> 
> -- 0:
> You probably have a file like
> 
> ~/.config/monitors.xml 
> 
> in your home dir - or wherever. Find it. Read it: It might be that this 
> file keeps setting your monitor(s?) to wrong settings/resolutions, 
> if these values in that file do not correspond with the actual
> capabilities of your monitor(s) ...

cat .config/monitors.xml

  
no

  SAM
  SyncMaster
  HVYL606149
  1600
  1200
  60
  0
  0
  normal
  no
  no
  yes
  no
  no


  SAM
  SAMSUNG
  0x
  1920
  1080
  59.940200805664062
  1600
  0
  normal
  no
  no
  no
  no
  no

  




> If in doubt: move the file away for a while - don't delete it. Then
> connect the external monitor.
> 
> -- 1:
> On many (?) computers there's something like a built-in (?) key combo: 
>  - Seems to work both on Linux and Windows.
> 
> If you have that on your computer, you might be able to change your
> monitor settings (external, and, IIRC, also the internal ones) with
> that combo: While this can be extremely convenient to attach
> monitors you can end up all monitors turning into black screens. In
> that case: press the combo again. If that does not help anymore I see
> four options to save you:

I can switch to 1024x768 and back to 1366x768

Did I made progresses? I am not sure

Thank.

> -- ssh (good).
> -- sysrq keys (works often).
> -- Off button of your computer (bad).
> -- Throwing both your computer and your monitor against the next
> available walls (Don't do that).
> 
> -- 
> Wolfgang Pfeiffer
> ___
> users mailing list

Re: Dual screen

2018-02-19 Thread Wolfgang Pfeiffer

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:23:27 +0100
"Patrick Dupre"  wrote:

> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
> 609mm x 347mm
>1366x768  59.79 +
>1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.0024.0029.97  
>   23.98  

As Ed already pointed out: the asterisk (*) in the line above means your
external monitor is set to  1920x1080, while its actual capabilities 
can nicely handle only 1366x768. You can see that in the line before
with the plus (+) sign in it. That's why - probably - your fonts on this
monitor don't look as crisp as you want them. 

man xrandr  

>1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94  
>1280x720  60.0050.0059.94  
>1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
>832x624   74.55  
>800x600   72.1975.0060.32  
>720x576   50.00  
>720x576i  50.00  
>720x480   60.0059.94  
>720x480i  60.0059.94  
>640x480   75.0072.8166.6760.0059.94  
>720x400   70.08  
>1920x1080_60.00  59.96  
> DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> axis) 408mm x 306mm

> 
> I run
>  xrandr --newmode "1920x1080_60.00"  173.00  1920 2048 2248 2576  1080 1083 
> 1088 1120 -hsync +vsync

No. You changed the order of the commands. Quote of the BZ page:

---

$ cvt 1360 768 
# 1360x768 59.80 Hz (CVT) hsync: 47.72 kHz; pclk: 84.75 MHz
Modeline "1360x768_60.00"   84.75  1360 1432 1568 1776  768 771 781 798
-hsync +vsync

[copy/paste the resulting 'Modeline' from above into the next command:]

$ xrandr --newmode "1360x768_60.00"   84.75  1360 1432 1568 1776  768
771 781 798 -hsync +vsync $ xrandr --addmode HDMI-1 1360x768_60.00
$ xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1360x768_60.00

--

So you run first

$ cvt 1366x768

because this is max what your external monitor can handle, according to
xrandr ...

then 
copy/paste the resulting 'Modeline' from the first command  into the next
command. See quote above:

$ xrandr --newmode .
$ xrandr --addmode .
$ xrandr --output HDMI-1 

> cvt 1920 1080
> xrandr --addmode HDMI-1 1920x1080_60.00
> xrandr --output HDMI-1 --mode 1920x1080_60.00
> 
> The monitor responds that it switched to 1920 x 1080

Because you told the poor fellow to do exactly that ... :)

> 
> 
> I do not see any improvement.

Still astonished? ... ;)

> DP-1 is the old (but sharp monitor)
> HDMI-1 is the new (but not sharp monitor)

Good to know ...

Two things you need to know. Read careful:

-- 0:
You probably have a file like

~/.config/monitors.xml 

in your home dir - or wherever. Find it. Read it: It might be that this 
file keeps setting your monitor(s?) to wrong settings/resolutions, 
if these values in that file do not correspond with the actual
capabilities of your monitor(s) ...

If in doubt: move the file away for a while - don't delete it. Then
connect the external monitor.

-- 1:
On many (?) computers there's something like a built-in (?) key combo: 
 - Seems to work both on Linux and Windows.

If you have that on your computer, you might be able to change your
monitor settings (external, and, IIRC, also the internal ones) with
that combo: While this can be extremely convenient to attach
monitors you can end up all monitors turning into black screens. In
that case: press the combo again. If that does not help anymore I see
four options to save you:

-- ssh (good).
-- sysrq keys (works often).
-- Off button of your computer (bad).
-- Throwing both your computer and your monitor against the next
available walls (Don't do that).

-- 
Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

On 02/19/18 17:05, Patrick Dupre wrote:
>> I suspect that the high-res computer screen copies somehow its
>> own resolution to the lower res TV. That's why I asked in another
>> message for the xrandr output for all three monitors, including the one
>> for the built-in computer monitor. 

I didn't write that.  Wolfgang did.

> What do you mean by 3 monitors, including the one for the built-in computer 
> monitor?
> I have only 2 monitors.
>
>

In any event, your Samsung monitor is set to run at 1920x1080 while its native
resolution is 1366x768.

Use xrandr to set it to 1366x768 and verify that it is set to that.  Again, 
running a
LED or LCD monitor at a resolution other than their "native" resolution results 
in a
less than ideal user experience when it comes to text.

-- 
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out

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Re: Dual screen

> "Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
> > > "Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:
> > >   
> > > > > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> > > > >
> > > > > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> > > > > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > > > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their
> > > > > native ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of
> > > > > graphics generation to actual display resolution, you get a
> > > > > smudge.  Monitors should, automatically, get the right
> > > > > resolution, because they tell the computer what theirs is.
> > > > > Though some lie, or have broken data, or if you connect through
> > > > > some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> > > > > 
> > > > > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > > > > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > > > > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based
> > > > > on the number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if
> > > > > you use point sizing, then 12 point text on one device should
> > > > > look the same as 12 point text on the other, points are an
> > > > > *absolute* size (in the same way as a 2 cm box should appear as
> > > > > 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying
> > > > > to generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent
> > > > > dual screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing
> > > > > above).
> > > > > 
> > > > > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the
> > > > > graphics rendering should neatly handle the magnification
> > > > > (render it bigger, using more dots).  But if you lie to the
> > > > > renderer about the display resolution, to get that effect,
> > > > > you're likely to get poor resolution results (render it bigger,
> > > > > stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly lacking in letting you
> > > > > easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.
> > > > > For text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates
> > > > > text properly for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in
> > > > > terminals the different between fonts which only ever use whole
> > > > > pixels, versus the ones that put in half contrast pixels trying
> > > > > to smooth the edges, particularly on small text.  For
> > > > > terminals, try picking a font that's specifically intended for
> > > > > terminals.
> > > > 
> > > > By default, I use
> > > > Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> > > > Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> > > > Documents: Sans Regular 11
> > > > Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> > > > Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to
> > > > full) Antialiasing: Grayscale
> > > > Scaling factor: 1
> > > >   
> > > > > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may
> > > > > have its own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your
> > > > > web browser may have its own independent scheme.  The same
> > > > > probably applies for mail clients using the same engines as
> > > > > browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> > > > > 
> > > > > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp
> > > > > and clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display
> > > > > pixels. VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the
> > > > > pixel clock in the graphics card is not the same as pixel
> > > > > clocking in the monitor. 
> > > > I tried several things but without real success.
> > > > 
> > > > The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> > > > The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and

Re: Dual screen


> On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:43:12 +0800
> Ed Greshko  wrote:
> 
> > On 02/19/18 08:21, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> > >> Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?  
> > > Yes  
> > >>> xrandr
> > >>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x
> > >>> 8192 HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted
> > >>> right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm 1366x768  59.79 +
> > >>>1920x1080 60.0050.0059.94*   30.0025.00
> > >>> 24.0029.9723.98  
> > >> I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of
> > >> the monitor connected?  
> > > HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x
> > > axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm 1366x768  59.79 +
> > >1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.00
> > > 24.0029.9723.98  
> > >
> > > Hence, it is running in 1920x1080
> > >
> > > It is a T24E310EW Samsung
> > >  
> > Well, the specs for that monitor are at 
> > https://uk.hardware.info/product/321689/samsung-t24e310ew/specifications
> > and other places. 
> > 
> > They list the resolution at 1366x768 and you have it set to
> > 1920x1080.  Using an LCD monitor at anything other than its native
> > resolution is sure to give substandard results.
> 
> I suspect that the high-res computer screen copies somehow its
> own resolution to the lower res TV. That's why I asked in another
> message for the xrandr output for all three monitors, including the one
> for the built-in computer monitor. 

What do you mean by 3 monitors, including the one for the built-in computer 
monitor?
I have only 2 monitors.


> But it might be possible to force via xrandr some sane resolution to
> an attached monitor.
> 
> So far I'm confident we'll catch that horse ... :)
> 
> Early in the morning here - I think I'll sleep now
> -- 
> Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:43:12 +0800
Ed Greshko  wrote:

> On 02/19/18 08:21, Patrick Dupre wrote:
> >> Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?  
> > Yes  
> >>> xrandr
> >>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x
> >>> 8192 HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted
> >>> right x axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm 1366x768  59.79 +
> >>>1920x1080 60.0050.0059.94*   30.0025.00
> >>> 24.0029.9723.98  
> >> I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of
> >> the monitor connected?  
> > HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x
> > axis y axis) 609mm x 347mm 1366x768  59.79 +
> >1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.00
> > 24.0029.9723.98  
> >
> > Hence, it is running in 1920x1080
> >
> > It is a T24E310EW Samsung
> >  
> Well, the specs for that monitor are at 
> https://uk.hardware.info/product/321689/samsung-t24e310ew/specifications
> and other places. 
> 
> They list the resolution at 1366x768 and you have it set to
> 1920x1080.  Using an LCD monitor at anything other than its native
> resolution is sure to give substandard results.

I suspect that the high-res computer screen copies somehow its
own resolution to the lower res TV. That's why I asked in another
message for the xrandr output for all three monitors, including the one
for the built-in computer monitor. 

But it might be possible to force via xrandr some sane resolution to
an attached monitor.

So far I'm confident we'll catch that horse ... :)

Early in the morning here - I think I'll sleep now
-- 
Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 00:49:44 +0100
"Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:

> >
> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
> > "Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> > > >
> > > > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> > > > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.
> > > > 
> > > > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their
> > > > native ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of
> > > > graphics generation to actual display resolution, you get a
> > > > smudge.  Monitors should, automatically, get the right
> > > > resolution, because they tell the computer what theirs is.
> > > > Though some lie, or have broken data, or if you connect through
> > > > some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> > > > 
> > > > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > > > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > > > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based
> > > > on the number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if
> > > > you use point sizing, then 12 point text on one device should
> > > > look the same as 12 point text on the other, points are an
> > > > *absolute* size (in the same way as a 2 cm box should appear as
> > > > 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> > > > 
> > > > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying
> > > > to generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent
> > > > dual screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing
> > > > above).
> > > > 
> > > > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the
> > > > graphics rendering should neatly handle the magnification
> > > > (render it bigger, using more dots).  But if you lie to the
> > > > renderer about the display resolution, to get that effect,
> > > > you're likely to get poor resolution results (render it bigger,
> > > > stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly lacking in letting you
> > > > easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> > > > 
> > > > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.
> > > > For text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates
> > > > text properly for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in
> > > > terminals the different between fonts which only ever use whole
> > > > pixels, versus the ones that put in half contrast pixels trying
> > > > to smooth the edges, particularly on small text.  For
> > > > terminals, try picking a font that's specifically intended for
> > > > terminals.
> > > 
> > > By default, I use
> > > Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> > > Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> > > Documents: Sans Regular 11
> > > Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> > > Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to
> > > full) Antialiasing: Grayscale
> > > Scaling factor: 1
> > >   
> > > > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may
> > > > have its own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your
> > > > web browser may have its own independent scheme.  The same
> > > > probably applies for mail clients using the same engines as
> > > > browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> > > > 
> > > > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp
> > > > and clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display
> > > > pixels. VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the
> > > > pixel clock in the graphics card is not the same as pixel
> > > > clocking in the monitor. 
> > > I tried several things but without real success.
> > > 
> > > The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> > > The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the
> > > fonts are sharpe. The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and
> > > it is connected to the DVI port by a cable (DVI -> HDMI).  
> > 
> > For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
> > to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
> > xrand

Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Ed Greshko

On 02/19/18 08:21, Patrick Dupre wrote:
>> Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?
> Yes
>>> xrandr
>>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
>>> HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
>>> axis) 609mm x 347mm
>>>1366x768  59.79 +
>>>1920x1080 60.0050.0059.94*   30.0025.0024.00
>>> 29.9723.98
>> I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of the monitor 
>> connected?
> HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
> 609mm x 347mm
>1366x768  59.79 +
>1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.0024.0029.97  
>   23.98  
>
> Hence, it is running in 1920x1080
>
> It is a T24E310EW Samsung
>
Well, the specs for that monitor are at 
https://uk.hardware.info/product/321689/samsung-t24e310ew/specifications  and 
other
places. 

They list the resolution at 1366x768 and you have it set to 1920x1080.  Using 
an LCD
monitor at anything other than its native resolution is sure to give 
substandard results.


-- 
A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out



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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Patrick Dupre


> 
> Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?
Yes
> 
> > xrandr
> > Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> > HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> > axis) 609mm x 347mm
> >1366x768  59.79 +
> >1920x1080 60.0050.0059.94*   30.0025.0024.00
> > 29.9723.98
> 
> I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of the monitor 
> connected?

HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
609mm x 347mm
   1366x768  59.79 +
   1920x1080 60.00*   50.0059.9430.0025.0024.0029.97
23.98  

Hence, it is running in 1920x1080

It is a T24E310EW Samsung

> From the xrandr man page
> 
>  If  invoked  without  any  option, it will dump the state of the outputs,
>  showing the existing modes for each of them, with a '+'  after  the  pre‐
>  ferred modes and a '*' after the current mode.
> 
> So, the monitor seems to be reporting that its native resolution is 1366x768 
> but not
> currently connected at it.
> 
> 
> >   
> >1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94  
> >1280x720  60.0050.0059.94  
> >1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
> >832x624   74.55  
> >800x600   72.1975.0060.32  
> >720x576   50.00  
> >720x576i  50.00  
> >720x480   60.0059.94  
> >720x480i  60.0059.94  
> >640x480   75.0072.8166.6760.0059.94  
> >720x400   70.08  
> > DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> > axis) 408mm x 306mm
> >1600x1200 60.00*+
> >1280x1024 75.0260.02  
> >1280x960  60.00  
> >1152x864  75.00  
> >1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
> >832x624   74.55  
> >800x600   72.1975.0060.3256.25  
> >640x480   75.0072.8166.6759.94  
> >720x400   70.08  
> 
> 
> -- 
> A motto of mine is: When in doubt, try it out
> 
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Ed Greshko

On 02/19/18 07:49, Patrick Dupre wrote:


Is your poorly performing monitor is connected to HDMI?

> xrandr
> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
> HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
> 609mm x 347mm
>1366x768  59.79 +
>1920x1080 60.0050.0059.94*   30.0025.0024.0029.97  
>   23.98

I ask since I see an oddity in the above.  What is the model of the monitor 
connected?

From the xrandr man page

 If  invoked  without  any  option, it will dump the state of the outputs,
 showing the existing modes for each of them, with a '+'  after  the  pre‐
 ferred modes and a '*' after the current mode.

So, the monitor seems to be reporting that its native resolution is 1366x768 
but not
currently connected at it.


>   
>1920x1080i60.0050.0059.94  
>1280x720  60.0050.0059.94  
>1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
>832x624   74.55  
>800x600   72.1975.0060.32  
>720x576   50.00  
>720x576i  50.00  
>720x480   60.0059.94  
>720x480i  60.0059.94  
>640x480   75.0072.8166.6760.0059.94  
>720x400   70.08  
> DP-1 connected primary 1600x1200+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> axis) 408mm x 306mm
>1600x1200 60.00*+
>1280x1024 75.0260.02  
>1280x960  60.00  
>1152x864  75.00  
>1024x768  75.0370.0760.00  
>832x624   74.55  
>800x600   72.1975.0060.3256.25  
>640x480   75.0072.8166.6759.94  
>720x400   70.08  


-- 
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Patrick Dupre

>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
> "Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:
> 
> > > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> > >
> > > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:  
> > > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  
> > > 
> > > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> > > ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> > > generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> > > should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> > > computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> > > you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> > > 
> > > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> > > number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> > > sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> > > point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> > > as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> > > 
> > > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> > > generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> > > screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
> > > 
> > > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> > > rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> > > using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> > > resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> > > results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> > > lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> > > 
> > > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> > > text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> > > for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> > > different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> > > ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> > > particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> > > specifically intended for terminals.  
> > 
> > By default, I use
> > Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> > Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> > Documents: Sans Regular 11
> > Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> > Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
> > Antialiasing: Grayscale
> > Scaling factor: 1
> > 
> > > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> > > own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> > > have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> > > clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> > > 
> > > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> > > clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels. 
> > > VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> > > the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
> > >   
> > I tried several things but without real success.
> > 
> > The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> > The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are 
> > sharpe.
> > The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI 
> > port by a cable
> > (DVI -> HDMI).
> 
> For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
> to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
> xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
> instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.
> 
> Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
> connections. 
> 
> Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
> can ...
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15
> 

xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 3520 x 1200, maximum 8192 x 8192
HDMI-1 connected 1920x1080+1600+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
609mm x

Re: Dual screen

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 23:11:54 +0100
Wolfgang Pfeiffer  wrote:

> For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
> to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and

  ^^
wrong: should say: cvt

Sorry ..

> xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
> instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.
> 
> Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
> connections. 
> 
> Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
> can ...
> 
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15
> 
> Good luck!



-- 
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Re: Dual screen

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:43:35 +0100
"Patrick Dupre" <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:

> > Subject: Re: Dual screen
> >
> > Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:  
> > > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  
> > 
> > Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> > ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> > generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> > should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> > computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> > you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> > 
> > You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> > difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> > monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> > number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> > sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> > point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> > as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> > 
> > Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> > generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> > screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
> > 
> > You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> > rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> > using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> > resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> > results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> > lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> > 
> > Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> > text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> > for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> > different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> > ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> > particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> > specifically intended for terminals.  
> 
> By default, I use
> Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
> Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
> Documents: Sans Regular 11
> Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
> Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
> Antialiasing: Grayscale
> Scaling factor: 1
> 
> > Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> > own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> > have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> > clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> > 
> > And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> > clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels. 
> > VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> > the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
> >   
> I tried several things but without real success.
> 
> The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
> The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are 
> sharpe.
> The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI 
> port by a cable
> (DVI -> HDMI).

For the monitor that doesn't give you the nice results you want, try
to let software do the job. So get a tool like both cvs and
xrandr, if you don't have them already installed, and try the
instructions on the page below for the monitor that does not work.

Please note that this hopefully might work both for mini-DPI and HDMI
connections. 

Please note also that this might not work on wayland: try X11 if you
can ...

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1470845#c15

Good luck!
-- 
Wolfgang Pfeiffer
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Patrick Dupre

> Subject: Re: Dual screen
>
> Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> > Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> > at the same time must play havoc with font selection.
> 
> Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
> ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
> generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
> should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
> computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
> you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.
> 
> You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
> difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
> monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
> number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
> sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
> point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
> as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).
> 
> Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
> generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
> screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).
> 
> You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
> rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
> using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
> resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
> results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
> lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.
> 
> Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
> text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
> for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
> different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
> ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
> particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
> specifically intended for terminals.

By default, I use
Window Titles: Cantarell Bold 11
Interface: Cantarell Regular 11
Documents: Sans Regular 11
Minispace: Monospace Regular 11
Hinting: Slight (I did not see any difference and switching to full)
Antialiasing: Grayscale
Scaling factor: 1

> Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
> own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
> have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
> clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).
> 
> And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
> clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels. 
> VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
> the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.
> 
I tried several things but without real success.

The motherboard has 2 ports, one VGA and one DVI.
The "old" monitor (1600x1200) is connected to the VGA and the fonts are sharpe.
The new monitor (LED/TV, 1920x1080) is HDMI and it is connected to the DVI port 
by a cable
(DVI -> HDMI).
Indeed, I do not have much choice (no VGA on the new monitor, no HDMI on the 
old monitor)
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-18 Thread Tim

Allegedly, on or about 18 February 2018, Ahmad Samir sent:
> I have a samsung monitor and using the buttons on the monitor itself,
> and there's a "Sharpness" setting.

That's an edge/detail enhancement feature, that over-emphasises the
sharper edges of picture content, some monitors allow you to do the
opposite, too (soften the picture).  It depends on the monitor as to
whether "normal" is at the zero position (an enhance-only mode), or is
somewhere in the middle of the range (soft/sharp controls).

You want the display to be driven properly, rather than try and
artificially crispen it up.  You get nasty artefacts with artificial
detail enhancement.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 4.14.16-200.fc26.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 31 19:34:52 UTC 2018 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
There is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see
the messages posted to the mailing list.

Television should really come with an intelligence knob.  I've tried
adjusting the brightness, but it didn't help.
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread Ahmad Samir

On 18 February 2018 at 02:07, fred roller  wrote:
[...]
> Normally, any PC to Monitor adjustments will be in the Display settings or
> some such.  Someone more knowledgeable could even tell you some of the
> advance stuff in config files, monitor profile, and such.  The monitor
> itself should have a "Menu" button or access to a menu.  Owner's manual
> would tell you how to access the menu.  It is here that you may find a
> setting which could help you.
>

I have a samsung monitor and using the buttons on the monitor itself,
and there's a "Sharpness" setting.

-- 
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread Tim

Allegedly, on or about 17 February 2018, stan sent:
> Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
> at the same time must play havoc with font selection.

Modern monitors (LCDs, etc), only work at one resolution, their native
ones.  If you don't drive the pixels with a 1:1 ratio of graphics
generation to actual display resolution, you get a smudge.  Monitors
should, automatically, get the right resolution, because they tell the
computer what theirs is.  Though some lie, or have broken data, or if
you connect through some KVMs, that data isn't passed through.

You can have two vastly different monitors, the only noticeable
difference should be the size of the fonts (and graphics) on one
monitor versus the other, *IF* you're using font sizing based on the
number of pixels (which tends to be the case).  But if you use point
sizing, then 12 point text on one device should look the same as 12
point text on the other, points are an *absolute* size (in the same way
as a 2 cm box should appear as 2 cm box, no matter what the display).

Display cloning/mirroring, is a problem, because you're trying to
generate the same data on two different medium.  Independent dual
screen, should be fine (that's what I was describing above).

You can play with scaling, to magnify one display, and the graphics
rendering should neatly handle the magnification (render it bigger,
using more dots).  But if you lie to the renderer about the display
resolution, to get that effect, you're likely to get poor resolution
results (render it bigger, stretching the dots).  Linux is sadly
lacking in letting you easily pick font and graphics sizing.

Font rendering can be odd, thanks to smoothing or sharpening.  For
text, I prefer the idea of a font engine that generates text properly
for the actual screen resolution.  You notice in terminals the
different between fonts which only ever use whole pixels, versus the
ones that put in half contrast pixels trying to smooth the edges,
particularly on small text.  For terminals, try picking a font that's
specifically intended for terminals.

Font rendering is a bastard to control.  X, or Wayland, may have its
own rules for general screen rendering of text.  Your web browser may
have its own independent scheme.  The same probably applies for mail
clients using the same engines as browsers (Firefox, Thunderbird, etc).

And how are you connecting them?  DVI or HDMI ought to be sharp and
clear, with a 1:1 matching of generated graphics to display pixels. 
VGA has analogue signal which will often smear, as the pixel clock in
the graphics card is not the same as pixel clocking in the monitor.


-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 4.14.16-200.fc26.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Jan 31 19:34:52 UTC 2018 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
There is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see
the messages posted to the mailing list.

The mindset of software designers:  You know that feature that you, and
many thousands of other users, found useful?  We removed it, because
we didn't like it.  We also hard-coded the default settings that you
keep customising.
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread stan

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:18:59 -0800
Joe Zeff  wrote:

> Do you happen to remember the program's name?  If so, it would be a 
> great help to anybody who needs it.

In thinking about this a little more, I wonder if fred doesn't have the
right of it.  Using monitors with different resolutions and dot pitches
at the same time must play havoc with font selection.  Maybe it's taken
care of automatically by the desktop.  What happens with laptops that
use an external monitor that's a different size than their built in
screen, especially larger? Do they have this font discord?
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread stan

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 17:18:59 -0800
Joe Zeff wrote:

> Do you happen to remember the program's name? If so, it would be a
> great help to anybody who needs it.

It's a package, not a program, and it turns out to be freetype. They
switched default font rendering, and turned off hinting.

Here is some relevant information from the thread begun by Heinz Diehl.

"""
for those who love razorsharp fonts just like me but got the new v40
interpreter coming with freetype-2.7 enforced on them when installing
F26: the good old v35 interpreter is still there (and I hope it will be
forever). You can use it by setting the environment variable

FREETYPE_PROPERTIES=truetype:interpreter-version=35

If you also want subpixel rendering, which now is disabled by default,
you can dig into the foption.h file in the config directory of the
freetype sourcecode, uncomment the option and recompile.

I have never been able to understand why people like the blurry and
muddy Micro$oft-like font rendering... gaah.. Now we have to hack the
source to get rid of that crap.

https://tinyurl.com/ybf3fkwv
"""

"""
> where are you setting this?

Global environment variables belong into /etc/profile, and local ones
into .bash_profile in your home directory. Here's the diff to
re-enable subpixel rendering (simply uncommenting the option):

diff -urN a/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h
b/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h ---
a/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h 2016-12-11
07:53:49.0 +0100 +++
b/freetype-2.7.1/include/freetype/config/ftoption.h 2017-07-13
20:51:26.727210939 +0200 @@ -122,7 +122,7 @@ /* This is done to allow
FreeType clients to run unmodified, forcing */ /* them to display
normal gray-level anti-aliased glyphs.
*/ /*
*/ -/* #define FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING */ +#define
FT_CONFIG_OPTION_SUBPIXEL_RENDERING
"""

"""
> where are you setting this?

If you aren't using wayland, session-wide environment variables can be
set in scripts added to the /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/ directory.
"""

"""
> to do something similar in wayland.

By exporting the env var in ~/.bash_profile and possibly in a script
in /etc/profile.d/*.sh; have a look at:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736660#c63
"""

"""
freetype-freeworld on rpmfusion.org has subpixel rendering enabled.

http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/releases/26/Everything/x86_64/os/repoview/freetype-freeworld.html
"""
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread Joe Zeff


On 02/17/2018 04:06 PM, stan wrote:

There was a conversation here about 6 months ago about the introduction
of a different level of font hinting and a different font optimizer that
many people found problematic.  That is probably where your
problem, and your solution, lies.


Do you happen to remember the program's name?  If so, it would be a 
great help to anybody who needs it.

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Re: Dual screen

| The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor
configuration.
| It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent Asus Motherboard).

Normally, any PC to Monitor adjustments will be in the Display settings or
some such.  Someone more knowledgeable could even tell you some of the
advance stuff in config files, monitor profile, and such.  The monitor
itself should have a "Menu" button or access to a menu.  Owner's manual
would tell you how to access the menu.  It is here that you may find a
setting which could help you.
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread stan

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 22:25:19 +0100
"Patrick Dupre"  wrote:

> The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor
> configuration. It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent
> Asus Motherboard).

This doesn't seem right.  Have you checked on their website?

> The new monitor says that it is running with a resolution
> 1920x1080@60Hz. I guess that it may be correct if I check on the
> pictures, but the bizarre thing is that the characters are just
> difficult to read, like if there is a lack of resolution. I can
> switch to 1366x768. 
> I do not know what to do.

There was a conversation here about 6 months ago about the introduction
of a different level of font hinting and a different font optimizer that
many people found problematic.  That is probably where your
problem, and your solution, lies.

The details have faded for me, but I think there is a setting that can
be increased to use more hinting, and it is still possible to use the
old font optimizer by specifying a setting different than the default.

At least that should send you in the right direction.
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread Patrick Dupre

Hello,

 

The Hardware of the PC does not let me access to any monitor configuration.

It seems that every thing is automatic (It is a recent Asus Motherboard).

 

The new monitor says that it is running with a resolution 1920x1080@60Hz.

I guess that it may be correct if I check on the pictures, but the bizarre thing is that

the characters are just difficult to read, like if there is a lack of resolution.

I can switch to 1366x768.

 

I do not know what to do.


 

===
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===

 
 

Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 5:37 PM
From: "fred roller" <fredrolle...@gmail.com>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Re: Dual screen



... also, look to the Accessibility settings of the OS.  Tell it you are hard of sight, this will help with global settings across the OS and should make most of the adjustments you are looking for in the rest of your software.

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Re: Dual screen

... also, look to the Accessibility settings of the OS.  Tell it you are
hard of sight, this will help with global settings across the OS and should
make most of the adjustments you are looking for in the rest of your
software.
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Re: Dual screen

On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 9:37 AM, Patrick Dupre <pdu...@gmx.com> wrote:

>
>
> 
> ===
> Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
> Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
> Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
> Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
> 189A, avenue Maurice Schumann
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=189A,+avenue+Maurice+Schumann+%7C+%7C+59140+Dunkerque,+France=gmail=g>|
> | 59140 Dunkerque, France
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=189A,+avenue+Maurice+Schumann+%7C+%7C+59140+Dunkerque,+France=gmail=g>
> 
> ===
>
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 2:11 PM
> *From:* "fred roller" <fredrolle...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Dual screen
> I run dual screen on my laptop.  If memory serves; 3 things may have an
> impact.  First set your new monitor to 1600 x 1200 and see if it clears up,
> The old monitor has alway been working fine in 1600 x 1200 (4:3)
>
> I seem to remember something about the ratio having an affect on
> resolution 1.33:1 vs 1.5:1 respectively for your monitors.  If this is the
> case then the resolutions might need/want to match.  The other is in the
> monitor menu itself. I don't recall what but I do recall some monitors have
> settings which affect resolution.  Finally, it may just be the quality of
> the monitors, something beyond your control.  I have seen both, good
> picture quality monitor designed for graphic work and color matching and a
> $100 special used more for just cli use in administration trying to be the
> former.  This is affected from the pixel-per-inch count from the
> manufacturer vs. dots-per-inch resolution in software for which there is a
> difference, though usually invisible to us.  Gnome has a tweak tool for
> high resolution, gnome-tweak-tool from yum.  This article may help:
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911509/how-to-make-
> linuxs-desktop-look-good-on-high-resolution-displays.html
>
> Changing the windows scaling, works, but it just change the scaling, ie,
> makes every things bigger.
>
> Actually, I also have a laptop in 1920 x 1080, and  the view is sharp.
> It seems that running a 1600x1200 and a 1920x1080 monitor is not very
> compatible for the 1920x1080 (or
> second screen).
>
>
> -- Fred
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>
>  My set up is a split resolution same as yours.  Mostly I did
adjustments.  It's a bit of task, not bad, but once you have your
resolution the way you like then adjust software settings, i.e. larger
fonts etc etc.  Most software I think is geared toward 1280 x 800 older
monitors maybe geared to the newer default 1600 x 1200; so some adjustments
are necessary to make it look right in the higher resolutions.  Worth the
time I think.  my second monitor is a 35" tv on hdmi.  That is a lot of
real estate so took a little work and it has been worth it.
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Re: Dual screen

2018-02-17 Thread Patrick Dupre


 

===
Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
Laboratoire de Physico-Chimie de l'Atmosphère | |
Université du Littoral-Côte d'Opale | |
Tel. (33)-(0)3 28 23 76 12 | | Fax: 03 28 65 82 44
189A, avenue Maurice Schumann | | 59140 Dunkerque, France
===

 
 

Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 2:11 PM
From: "fred roller" <fredrolle...@gmail.com>
To: "Community support for Fedora users" <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Re: Dual screen



I run dual screen on my laptop.  If memory serves; 3 things may have an impact.  First set your new monitor to 1600 x 1200 and see if it clears up,

The old monitor has alway been working fine in 1600 x 1200 (4:3)

 

I seem to remember something about the ratio having an affect on resolution 1.33:1 vs 1.5:1 respectively for your monitors.  If this is the case then the resolutions might need/want to match.  The other is in the monitor menu itself. I don't recall what but I do recall some monitors have settings which affect resolution.  Finally, it may just be the quality of the monitors, something beyond your control.  I have seen both, good picture quality monitor designed for graphic work and color matching and a $100 special used more for just cli use in administration trying to be the former.  This is affected from the pixel-per-inch count from the manufacturer vs. dots-per-inch resolution in software for which there is a difference, though usually invisible to us.  Gnome has a tweak tool for high resolution, gnome-tweak-tool from yum.  This article may help: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911509/how-to-make-linuxs-desktop-look-good-on-high-resolution-displays.html 

 

Changing the windows scaling, works, but it just change the scaling, ie, makes every things bigger.

 

Actually, I also have a laptop in 1920 x 1080, and  the view is sharp.

It seems that running a 1600x1200 and a 1920x1080 monitor is not very compatible for the 1920x1080 (or

second screen).

 

 

-- Fred

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Re: Dual screen