://java.sun.com/docs/hotspot/HotSpotFAQ.html#64bit_heap
Apparently RHEL 4 x64 supports up to 16GB and RHEL 5 claims 'unlimited'
but I'll bet no-one has actually tried it with 16 TB.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Li,Henry wrote:
My Tomcat is running on 32-bit Red Hat 4 (2.6.9-78.0.1.ELsmp), host
server
this may
not work in your application (you'd have to have two Tomcat instances.)
2. Your other 'workaround' is to install a 64 bit OS and a 64 bit JVM.
Then you can have 7G+ for the JVM.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Li,Henry wrote:
My Tomcat is running on 32-bit Red Hat 4 (2.6.9-78.0.1.ELsmp
add a ContextListener in web.xml will will allow you to do any
servlet startup/shutdown operations.
There are other ways, but the above should work.
Regards
Alan Chaney
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be
available to the servet via the request object's input stream.
I don't want to appear picky, but that doesn't actually seem that
problematic. If you don't set the content type as
application/x-ww-form-urlencoded then you should be able to read it via
the input stream
Regards
Alan Chaney
) of the documents carefully. I guess you've got the
linux distro because it would be much better to start with the currrent
release version (6.0) than 5.5
HTH
Alan Chaney
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be affected
by local conditions eg one application is badly written but represents
a lot of your network activity, so its behavior is predominant in
conditioning your thinking. Or not! :)
regards
Alan Chaney
But anyway, it indicates a problem somewhere in one of the two
applications, my guess
system, tomcat version, jdk version - all of
which would make it easier to help you.
However, one wild guess is that you have a firewall which is preventing
the other networked machine(s) from accessing the tomcat instance.
HTH
Alan Chaney
and run my
applications with JRE from the 1.6 JDK.
You can have more than one tomcat server defined in eclipse. Its up to
you to configure them using the Server properties page to ensure that
they use different ports.
HTH - also see Eclipse Help
Regards
Alan Chaney
Sergey Livanov
Actually I missed the final step!!
Right click in the Servers panel and New-Server will let you add the
server.
Then you can add web projects as required.
Regards
Alan
Alan Chaney wrote:
Sergey (and FYI Andre)
For each server Eclipse uses, you must create a new entry in the
'Servers
Chris
Christopher Schultz wrote:
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Rainer,
On 3/17/2009 4:18 AM, Rainer Frey (Inxmail GmbH) wrote:
On Monday 16 March 2009 22:42:27 Christopher Schultz wrote:
Can you clarify this a bit?
There is no special management instance. VMWare Server is an
must be hard-coded.
So it seems that you must reconfigure any other local tomcat(s) on the
same machine to use (a) different startup port(s).
Hope that someone, someday, finds this helpful. I'd be interested if
someone else finds out more about this.
Alan Chaney
Hi Andre
Totally agree with your comments with respect to the OP's first
exception. However, they actually had two exceptions in their original
email with completely different time stamps. The 2nd exception appears
to be a HibernateException
01-Mar-2009 11:36:21
Sorry, didn't see the end!
Alan
André Warnier wrote:
Alan Chaney wrote:
Hi Andre
Totally agree with your comments with respect to the OP's first
exception. However, they actually had two exceptions in their
original email with completely different time stamps. The 2nd
exception appears
Do you have write permission to the following directory as the user you
are using to do the build?
You may have to 'su' or 'sudo' or change the access permissions on
/usr/share/java to allow the build script to write to it.
Regards
Alan Chaney
h iroshan wrote:
/usr/share/java/tomcat
, eclipse and then, within that, eclipse WST (or the combined
package in the first place.)
Let me just add that the above is an abridged summary to try to get the
OP on the right path, not to start a long flame about the advantages and
disadvantages of eclipse!
Regards
Alan Chaney
release, configure that as a Server and then create a Dynamic Web
Project. See the tutorials in the eclipse help. Works for Mac, PC,
Linux, Solaris.
Regards
Alan Chaney
( a long time eclipse user with a major love-hate relationship with eclipse
Christopher Schultz wrote:
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Mark,
I was the OP on this one. Mark just made a couple of suggestions.
On 2/21/2009 4:06 PM, Mark Thomas wrote:
5. Patch DataSourceRealm
6. Make case sensitivity configurable and contribute your patch back to
Edoardo wrote
I have
resultset.close();
statement.close();
connection.close();
in my code.
and
connection = dataSource.getConnection();
seems very close to my
ambiente = (Context) new InitialContext().lookup(java:comp/env);
pool = (DataSource) ambiente.lookup(jdbc/myApp);
Gregor Schneider wrote:
To the OP:
1. May I ask what database it is you're using?
Postgres - but a more general solution would be nice.
2- I'd go for the following solution:
Create a JSP-page accepting the credentials. The username should be
converted to uppercase. The password should be
Martin Gainty wrote:
Which specific attributes are you seeking that are not in DataSourceRealm?
Realm className=org.apache.catalina.realm.DataSourceRealm debug=99
dataSourceName=jdbc/authority
userTable=users userNameCol=user_name userCredCol=user_pass
userRoleTable=user_roles
without additional code for Acegi
either. Obviously I can take that issue to the acegi/spring forums if
acegi is the only solution (that is 1, 3, and 4. above won't work - 2.
is out)
Thanks in advance
Alan Chaney
case sensitivity configurable and contribute your patch back to
the ASF. Providing it is database neutral, there is a good chance it
will be accepted for Tomcat 7 and maybe back-ported to Tomcat 6.
Mark
Ok Mark I'll have a go at 5. and 6. I'll report back in a few days.
Regards
Alan Chaney
t/o, though. ($1,9B)
Alan Chaney
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be important for
tomcat. (See vmxnet) YMMV.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Jorge Medina wrote:
There are no issues on running Tomcat in a VM. Tomcat is unaware of where it is
running.
Performance depends on the host running your VM. If you compare a VM running application A on host H compared
and trying to understand something a few
weeks/months/years later is always fraught with difficulties. The main
problem with perl is that I can never remember exactly what #...@!$% means
whereas something like getUserPrincipal() works for me!
Regards
Alan Chaney
Christopher Schultz wrote
to save the file locally?
Regards
Alan Chaney
Prashant Golash wrote:
Hi Tomcat-Apache Gurus,
I have a web application where from the front end user loads a file
and gives it as input to Java classes.The file is given as input to
a python script which converts it into some other format.
Here I
and all those Java and Jython integration techniques.
Sincerely,
Prashant golash
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Alan Chaney
a...@compulsivecreative.comwrote:
Hi Prashant
The first question - which version of Tomcat? What operating sytem? What
JVM? and in your case which version of Jython
which can be controlled
by the request. This shouldn't normally affect tomcat's normal operation.
HTH
Alan Chaney
paybackorfail wrote:
That's a good point, what if it was just an html page?
Mark Thomas-18 wrote:
paybackorfail wrote:
Hi, I have written a web application in netbeans
need a way to shutdown the server so it will
stop updating the database
Alan Chaney wrote:
I think you need to rethink your use cases here...
Exactly WHY do you need to start and stop tomcat from a button on a web
page?
Or do you really need to enable/disable some kind of function?
Generally
to see if Eclipse 3.4 was better than 3.3.
I tried b4 thru b16 and it seems to have made no difference.
No real answer here, just me giving you some more background data.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Bill Davidson wrote:
I've submitted this to Sun a few times. No response. I was hoping
someone here
now has better transactional support than 4 - although I am
personally sceptical of their reliance on 'atomic' locking - I don't
quite see how that would work with long transactions and an optimistic
locking strategy.
So, in the end you pays your money and you takes your choice (grin)
Alan
Hi Stefan
You don't need to repeat the stmt.close();conn.close() etc in the 'try'
body. The 'finally' by definition is ALWAYS called and that is where you
should do the tidy up...
Alan Chaney
Stefan Riegel wrote:
I guess I understood the point with the Random Connection Closed
Exceptions
that the correct solution is to synchronize access
to the connection object when it is retrieved and closed.
I have to go out now and I don't have any more time to consider this
today, but I'd be interested to hear other people's comments on this topic.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Stefan Riegel
Toriacht
Eclipse wst has a number of dfferent ways of working. It looks like you
have selected the (default) way in which eclipse
creates its own internal copy of the webapps directory - in your case in
the folder E:\\ ..\tmp1\service_demo.
What the error is saying is that as tomcat
? Also, you may
want to watch the upload with something like wireshark to see exactly
what is happening and when.
Regards
Alan Chaney
javacle wrote:
pWe have a customer who uploads a file on a daily basis.
Usually it works, but about once every two weeks it fails with this error in
the log
Alan Chaney wrote:
How big is the file?
Connection reset is commonly caused by the the client dropping the
connection. This could be because of connectivity problems - for
example, issues with the clients ISP.
I have had problems with specific browsers over this as well (our site
has dozens
Hi Ben
You can get it from the request. In JSP you can access the request
implict object to get the value of the
HttpServletRequest#getRemoteUser() method ...
Returns the login of the user making this request, if the user has been
authenticated, or null if the user has not been
of the database?
Regards
Alan Chaney
Sean W wrote:
Greetings!
I have a single war packaged application that needs to have about 200 unique
context paths running (200 copies of the application running - each uses a
different database based on the context name).
I know how to deploy 1 context
on this site.
Thanks in advance
Alan Chaney
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Or stop using APR...
but that in itself is quite a lot of work as I'll have to reconfigure my
SSL.
Hmm...
Gregor Schneider wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the APR has caused the bug, and 6.0.16 contains a
new version of the APR. Since this usually comes as a source, you'll
have to re-compile
on the /svr/www/tomcat/base/conf folder?
Are you sure that the user that tomcat runs as can write to that folder?
Have you checked that tomcat is running as the user that you expect?
Is it possible that there is a filing system error or even a disk error?
Regards
Alan Chaney
André Warnier
is undoubtedly an obscure
and complex process for the new-comer (been there.. done that...) and
which sadly is not especially well EXPLAINED anywhere that I have found.
There are some 'cookbook' type recipes on the web, which are often
inconsitent.
Hope that helps
Alan Chaney (a daily eclipse
. The
database state is nothing to do with the http session, you must manage
that separately.
2) Is it necessary to make the petstore database on each of nodes clustered
for session replication to happen ?
Regards
Alan Chaney
André
André Warnier wrote:
(and what is PermGen ?)
No one else seemed to answer this. PermGen is the chunk of memory which
is allocated to the JVM in which to hold the 'prototypes' of the class
files used. For a large web app with lots of classes (NOT object) it is
common to have to
Its called a 'web service'.
Make your tomcat application a web service. Use a php application to
invoke it. Distribute the php applications to the php servers.
The php application has a user interface and generates the invocation
request (probably as an xml file). Your 'MASTER' does the
with trying to sustain sessions
across the upgrades.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Bill Davidson wrote:
My company's main webapp is used around the world (Europe, North America,
Australia, etc.).
We're using Tomcat as our app server and Oracle (10g) for our database.
When we want to do an upgrade
it 'step by step', IMHO this is an 'advanced' task and
you should not be undertaking it until you fully understand all the
implications for performance and security. As Tommy suggests, read and
understand the documentation first.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Radhakrishnavangara wrote:
Hi Tommy
where the lucene query results are processed in a
separate thread and your application makes TWO requests - one for the
first set of results and then one for the final set of results.
There are far too many different ways to do this to detail here - I hope
this helps
Regards
Alan Chaney
Er... shouldn't you be making K00, GenK00 and its constructor public?
They will only be visible to classes in .../test/k00
As to tc loading generic classes - works fine for me on Java 5 and Java 6
Regards
Alan
Albretch Mueller wrote:
Hi
I need to check if the tc classloaders are able
it supports Java 5.
Regards
Alan
Christopher Schultz wrote:
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Alan,
Alan Chaney wrote:
| Er... shouldn't you be making K00, GenK00 and its constructor public?
...and maybe also importing them into the JSP? JSPs are not in a
package -- at least
the options. I would look for two things were I
debugging this:
1. The option isn't being included in the tomcat java invocation
2. The option is corrupted (misspelt, incorrect spacing etc).
HTH
Alan Chaney
Tomás Tormo wrote:
Hi
here it comes my question again... :D How to increase
with Johnny and others as below, use
something like mod_jk and a cluster.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Johnny Kewl wrote:
Liang,
I think whats bothering all of us, is that sometimes the concept itself
is going wrong, and that what I think the other guys are asking.
As you can see, you now getting
, but it will stop
people just casually right-clicking on a link and downloading it.
The only other alternative is to employ some kind of DRM system, but I
guess you don't want to go that way.
HTH
Alan Chaney
bperquku wrote:
thank you for your reply,
Actually my webapp uses a db authentication
Christopher Schultz skrev:
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Alan,
Alan Chaney wrote:
| Have you checked to see whether or not they are real requests - that
is,
| coming from the web. If they are there's nothing anyone on this list
can
| do...
Not entirely. It's possible to write
or feeble attempts to hack your site. If they are truly
vindictive the only thing you can do is block them with a firewall.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Sameer Naik wrote:
Hi,
We are using Apache 2.0.53 + mod_jk 1.2.21 + tomcat 5.0.28 combination and
seeing multiple hits to a single JSP file in quick
app. is doing.
HTH
Alan Chaney
Gilbert, Antoine wrote:
Hi
I have a 2x quad core (8 cpu units) server.
If I start a java program and this one is launching (at the same time) 8
thread doing some CPU intensive jobs, all the CPU are used at 100%, and
that's what I'm expecting
way to know is to
experiment.
HTH
Alan Chaney
Stephanie Wullbieter wrote:
Hello,
on
http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/config/http.html
is for parameter MaxThreads written:
The maximum number of request processing threads to be created by this Connector,
which therefore
!) and consumes about 140k bytes
of memory. On a modern server that can hardly be considered as any use
at all!
Alan Chaney
Enrico Sasdelli wrote:
Thanks for reply,
I see you have maxIdle=20. Do you have more that 20 connections
sitting idle? Is this really that much of a concern
Christopher Schultz wrote:
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David,
David Smith wrote:
| I'll bet money the added, idle postgres connections are just sleeping
| while they wait for work. Given idle connections contribute virtually
| no additional load, don't see his argument
One a similar vein, exactly how do you connect firefox to the server?
Directly, or via some kind of network connection. If its a network,
what's the bandwidth?
Alan Chaney
Christopher Schultz wrote:
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Bruno,
Bruno Matos wrote:
| I'm getting
about memory usage?)
3. Some kind of lock contention.
HTH
Bruno Matos wrote:
Hello,
Tank you every one.
I connect to localhost and my CPU stays in 100% all the time.
Open directly the xml file take no time at all.
Alan Chaney wrote:
One a similar vein, exactly how do you connect firefox
and to meet their own objectives. I
always seem to find something doesn't quite work right when I try to do
it by rote from a tutorial and I end up debugging it myself, just using
the tutorial as a guide.
-Carl
Alan Chaney wrote:
The effect you are observing is because you have configured your
? Will your end-users be able to configure things or will it be the
result of specific programming work?
Alan Chaney
Andy Clark wrote:
Lucas wrote:
To answer the original question, there is a
mechanism that Tomcat provides to handle the
specific thing you want to achieve. The solution
clearly and I'm sure
people will be able to give you more specific help.
Alan Chaney
BeasC wrote:
I can get Tomcat to render JSP content if I try to (for example) access the
JSP installation examples using http://localhost:8080/examples/jsp But when
I try to try http://localhost/examples
As an aside, if you are going to have two different processes writing
these shared files you may also have to consider locking issues - maybe
you have already done this.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Daniel J Hulme wrote:
Hi,
I'm running a WebService using Tomcat 5.5 on Ubuntu 7.10 with Axis2
) is much
appreciated.
Daniel
Alan Chaney wrote:
This is really a linux permissions issue.
How are you starting tomcat? with the $TOMCAT_HOME/bin/startup.sh or
with jsvc or are you using an ubuntu startup script?
You don't say anything about the user who will run the java application
Hi Chris
Christopher Schultz wrote:
Are you sure you are changing the umask for the jsvc process? I wonder
if the umask is being re-set to something else when jsvc elevates itself
to root. You should ask the commons folks about how to do this with
jsvc, as this is really off-topic, here (but
You shouldn't be messing about with the ownership of the PID file. It is
created by jsvc at startup. If you use jsvc properly it will start as
root, create the pid file, startup tomcat, allow tomcat to bind to ports
80 and 443 and then switch to the user specified with -user switch.
When you
and do
something else and then close the connection. Turn on logging for the
pool and watch concurrent requests being processed.
Alan Chaney
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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Daad,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| No, my test is done with threads
something like:
sudo apt-get remove apache2
- if you have problems see the ubuntu users list
HTH
Angelo Chen wrote:
Hi,
I have a ubuntu server which has apache web server 2 pre - configured, it is
port 80, now I install tomcat 6 and I'd like to use port 80 as well, how can
i stop apache2
, you fixed it! Hope you
have hours of fun learning servlet programming just like the rest of us...
Regards
Alan Chaney
Kurt L Harless wrote:
OK, figured it out.
I changed the Character Set to
?xml version=1.0 encoding=ISO-8859-1?
Instead of
?xml version=1.0 encoding=ISO-8851-1 ?
I
/2, Alan Chaney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You don't need the redirect. The response to the request IS the pdf file.
HTH
Guilherme Orioli wrote:
It just doesn't show the Download dialog on the screen when i click the
button...
2008/4/2, Guilherme Orioli [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
ok... here's what i'm
Chris
Very nicely put. The only thing that I'm not clear on is your comment
about sending the data as a String. The OP is trying to return a pdf
file, which is a byte stream. I'd worry about trying to wrap that in a
String because of encoding issues.
You make a good point about two
at heavy loads the
CPU utilization is low and it only needs about 100MB of heap to support
100 simultaneous connections. (which could represent 7GB of download)
It is written using Spring and Hibernate (and a lot of other wonderful
open source projects)
Regards
Alan Chaney
Actually another question is what is it in your application that NEEDS
2500 threads? What does the application do? Is it 3rd party or in house?
Normally the creation of a thread is considered an expensive operation
and typically one tries to avoid creating new threads all over the
place.
You don't need the redirect. The response to the request IS the pdf file.
HTH
Guilherme Orioli wrote:
It just doesn't show the Download dialog on the screen when i click the
button...
2008/4/2, Guilherme Orioli [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
ok... here's what i'm doing... in system out, something like
Steffen Heil wrote:
It's very fast, relyable and flexible.
Agreed.
The configuration language is even turing complete...
Be aware, that it's initial configuration may be a huge step.
On debian/ubuntu you get a multi-file configuration by default, which is
good, if the package is updated.
Have you looked at exim? (www.exim.org).
sendmail is rather dated.
I have no experience of postfix.
I have set up two mailservers with exim. The documentation is thorough,
but setting up a public production mailserver is not for the
faint-hearted. Exim is supposed to be significantly easier
In the real world what network connections will exist between you and
your real clients?
How many ports do you have on your server?
How fast are they?
How big are the pages being requested? Including images, css files etc?
If you have 500 concurrent users will you have 500 times the traffic
applications to my servers.
From my reading of the docs there could be a potential problem if there
is a conflict between existing classes in the TC distribution and the
jars I would put in the 'lib'. What's the recommended practice?
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Alan Chaney
. There are other solutions to the time of uploads.
Thanks
Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Alan Chaney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Tomcat 6 and placing jars in $CATALINA_HOME/lib
Is there any reason why these jars (and their dependencies)
should not be placed in $CATALINA_HOME/lib
Alan Chaney
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or inside.
Thanks.
s.
list, On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Alan Chaney wrote:
| yes We have used -Xms or -Xmx Configuration , since the system
RAM is
| 6 GB
| as
|
| JAVA_OPTS=-server -Xms350m -Xmx350m -XX:+UseParallelGC -verbose:gc
So you have a 3.5GB heap. What are you filling it with? It's
address on the same routed network.
Cannot see webpages on browser from outside or inside.
Thanks.
s.
list, On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Alan Chaney wrote:
| yes We have used -Xms or -Xmx Configuration , since the system RAM is
| 6 GB
| as
|
| JAVA_OPTS=-server -Xms350m -Xmx350m -XX
friend'.
HTH
Spec
Os = Unix 11
jsdk = 1.6
Tomcat =5.5.23 version
thx in advance
with regards
karthik
Alan Chaney wrote:
Firstly, you are only making 350M of your memory available to the
application. xmx=350m means 350 megabtyes is reserved for the heap.
Secondly, that's probably
| yes We have used -Xms or -Xmx Configuration , since the system RAM is
| 6 GB
| as
|
| JAVA_OPTS=-server -Xms350m -Xmx350m -XX:+UseParallelGC -verbose:gc
So you have a 3.5GB heap. What are you filling it with? It's probably
not a memory issue if...
Actually the OP's heap appears to be
I'd guess that you copied the text in the tutorial using an editor which
converted it to an RTF
(Rich Text Format). The text you show in your email is rtf markup.
The startup_tomcat file is a shell script which is setting the following
environment variables
JAVA_HOME - where you have
XP Home only supports one core - however, that would hardly be an OS for
a production web server (grin)
XP Professional is limited to 2 cpus
I would suspect that the OPs factors were related to IO Bandwidth or
running out of threads as suggested earlier. I've found that a modern
multicore
Problems with /dev/random relate to waiting to generate enough entropy
after restart of the OS. Does this slow start up happen only after the
machine has been restarted or does it happen every time Tomcat is
started? If the latter, then it is unlikely to be associated with
/dev/random and much
instruction set. The Xeon family and the E64 family are all compatible
with the 'AMD' 64 bit JVM
You say DELL 2590 - do you mean DELL 2950? The 2950 is takes Intel Xeon
processors which will work with the so-called 'AMD' JVM.
Hope that helps
Regards
Alan Chaney
Dave wrote:
I installed Linux FC6
Actually I've seen something like this. I'm under a lot of pressure to
get something out so I haven't investigated it further, but what seemed
to be happening is that if the client slowed down the NIO connector was
throwing a SocketTimeout. I tried messing about with the timeout
settings but
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the help. I still don't have this working completely, but
tomcat is now working.
I tested mysql and it is using tcp/ip. mysql -h 127.0.0.1 -u javauser
-p works fine.
Also the MSQLAdmin program shows it is connecting to the correct port
3306
Or as I mentioned in a recent email, you can run something like jsvc and
set the user to 'tomcat' which allows you to bind to the port and then
changes the user.
Regards
Alan
Mark H. Wood wrote:
I must've missed the place in the documentation where it explains how
to get Tomcat to start as
as root THIS IS VERY BAD DON'T DO THIS
OR
3. use something like jsvc and set the 'user' to tomcat after starting
up as root. jsvc will start as root and bind to the port and then
switch to the non-privileged tomcat user for normal operation.
Regards
Alan Chaney
Hassan Schroeder wrote:
On Wed
I've seen the following causes:
1. Application not shutting down properly because threads still running.
2. Application holding on to system resources (files, database) (really
another version of 1.)
Try stopping the app using the manager and checking that the log says
that the app is
Totally agree with everything brien says below.
I also run a web site with a large number of media objects. I've been
involved in filing system and media projects for many years both in
research and production capacity.
The slight increase in complexity of the solution to maintain the media
If you purpose is to find the roles in the database wouldn't it be
better just to query the database? What kind of realm are you using?
If its something like the 'memory' realm then you can just read the
file. If its a RDBM then a few lines of JDBC code or the use of a
persistence manager would
Hi
Where can I find the mbeans-descriptor.dtd?
The documentation mentions a 'fulldocs' download but I can't seem to
find that.
Thanks in advance
Alan Chaney
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Bill Barker wrote:
Got it, thanks very much!
For Tomcat 6, you can get it at
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/tomcat/tc6.0.x/trunk/java/org/apache/tomcat/util/modeler/
For earlier Tomcat versions, you can get from common-modeler at
http://commons.apache.org/downloads/download_modeler.cgi.
Unfortunately I think it is way more complicated than this.
I think that Mladen Turk's article has a lot of very useful information
about configuring Tomcat and I congratulate him on putting it together.
However, I've spent some time recently working on some performance
issues and I think
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