Hello all,
I will sort through the latest messages on this and post replies as soon
as I am able. I'm a good bit behind things as it is right now due to the
sudden and unexpected death of a close friend.
--Kyle
Sorry to hear about your loss Kyle.
Michel
- Original Message -
From: Kyle R. Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Hello all,
I will sort through the latest messages on this and post
On Jun 6, 2007, at 3:58 AM, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
Hello all,
I will sort through the latest messages on this and post replies as
soon as I am able. I'm a good bit behind things as it is right now
due to the sudden and unexpected death of a close friend.
--Kyle
I too wish to
On 4/6/2007 3:45 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
Once they have given up their excess electron(s) to the front surface of the
ball, they become neutrals so they go with the wind their former colleagues
behind are still entraining, around the ball and beyond.
Now one might ask, what's special
On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
4. Removing the balls from the rotor wires and covering them with
silicone resin reduced motion of the device (now set up free to
rotate again) by about 1/2.
I take it this means the entire ball and not just the front of the ball?
- Original Message -
From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
I can see the -ve ions being channelled to the +ve front surface of the ping
ball, but for rotation to result some of the -ve ions must
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 2, 2007, at 10:17 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL
On Jun 2, 2007, at 10:47 PM, Michel Jullian wrote:
I meant that in the absence of the rotor each stator wire tip will
create an ion wind loop in a _vertical_ radial plane (referring to
the first device photographed on the web site too).
Yes - two actually.
Er, why two?
The mental
Gentlemen, an update from the lab,
Tests using smoke reveal the following:
1. With the Borbas device free to rotate, smoke is relatively unaffected
in proximity to the device. It is hard to tell however exactly what is
going on as the smoke is also being stirred around by the device motion.
On 3/6/2007 12:14 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Jun 2, 2007, at 2:59 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
According to the logic of Newton's laws of motion, the ions have to
remain
immobile to be able to pull the ball forward. However, the forward
motion
the ball will in turn be impeded by the ions
to arrange, not to mention the smell ;-)
Michel
- Original Message -
From: Kyle R. Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Gentlemen, an update from the lab,
Tests using smoke reveal
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Great work again Kyle!
I had expected things would be easier to see with the rotor locked. As a matter
of fact I believe I had suggested this test to Miklos himself ages ago
the rotor tips to the stator tips) when the balls are removed from the locked
rotor.
Michel
- Original Message -
From: Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Great work again
flow is
present with the balls on.(*)
Michel
(*)assuming +ve HV on the rotor, which is what a CRT flyback provides
- Original Message -
From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
You mean
On Jun 3, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
5. Per Horace's suggestion, I powered the device with AC. The
results, were to say the least, disappointing. No thrust was
observed using any of the configurations given above, save one.
With rotor electrodes having a more flattened
a CRT flyback provides
- Original Message -
From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
You mean the polarity of the tips can be switched by
adding or removing the ping pong ball
- Original Message -
From: Harry Veeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Ok, so the entrained neutrals with the ping pong balls
decreases the air pressure just in front of balls, and this
causes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Ok, so the entrained neutrals with the ping pong balls
decreases the air pressure just in front of balls, and this
causes the rotator to rotate?
Harry
On 3/6/2007 7
Hi Kyle,
Good work and good reporting, as always! Some comments below.
- Original Message -
From: Kyle R. Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Howdy folks,
Well, I bit (past tense
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 1, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Michel Jullian wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL
On Jun 1, 2007, at 5:27 PM, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
Howdy folks,
Well, I bit (past tense of I'll bite) so I made one of these
things and tested it.
Awesome! I just go away for a bit, and you pretty much have this
thing wrapped up!
It does work, as Miklos Borbas says, but some
On Jun 2, 2007, at 3:15 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
4. Put corona wires fanning out from the axis of rotation of the
pinwheel, about 3 inches below it, and pointed so that they emit
radially, and not tangentially (so they contribute little to any
wind-caused thrust) and the thing begins spinning
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
...
I suspect the asymmetry in the the shape of the field in front of the
ping pong balls is important. I expect
On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:59 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
...
I suspect the asymmetry in the the shape of the field in front
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 2, 2007, at 6:59 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL
On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
The stator wire tips are oriented radially. Their ion wind is
oriented radially. The field of the balls deflects that radial wind
towards themselves. That deflection is clockwise as viewed from the
top, for the device in the first photos of
Oh, I forgot to mention: if anything of commercial value is to be
obtained from any of this, now that replication plus understanding
has pretty much shown even pulsed DC to be useless, then tests should
be run using AC.
Regards,
Horace Heffner
Correction:
Oh, I forgot to mention: if anything of commercial value is to be
obtained from any of this, now that replication plus understanding
has pretty much shown even pulsed DC to be useless, then tests should
be run using AC, no stator wires, minimized corona discharges.
Regards,
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 2, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
The stator wire tips are oriented radially. Their ion wind
Michel Jullian wrote:
Hi Kyle,
Good work and good reporting, as always! Some comments below.
No problem, and I appreciate the kind words.
Ah yes I had forgotten about those stator bound emitters in the
Borbas device! Indeed, to develop what you say in point 8 below,
those become the
Horace Heffner wrote:
Even more sad. Sigh.
I had a few hopes for this one, but it looks really bad. This is just
another ion driven gadget. The ball end indeed apparently attracts (and
is attracted by) the ions in front of it and creates a wind over and
around the ping pong ball. This
Michel Jullian wrote:
Kyle kindly proposed to do some more tests, a smoke test with the
rotor blocked and another one without the rotor (and its spindle
bluntes) would be quite instructive!
Yes, I can probably do that in a bit. I'm off now to go deal with some
things around the house,
-
From: Kyle R. Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
Michel Jullian wrote:
Kyle kindly proposed to do some more tests, a smoke test with the
rotor blocked and another one without the rotor
I wrote the following
I think Borbas was expecting the wind to be coming from behind the
balls,
Re reading the above, I realize I need to use a bit more tact in writing
messages. to the uninitiated, speaking of wind...coming from behind
the balls might seem a bit crude. :)
--Kyle
Michel Jullian wrote:
That's good, keep us tuned if that supply doesn't get you ;-)
Regarding 3 and 4, why would you expect to see air moving outside of
the bag? The device and Newton should be happy with air moving only
inside (in the direction opposite the rotor) shouldn't they?
Actually, I
Put this way, the hypothesis looks much more plausible :)
Michel
- Original Message -
From: Kyle R. Mcallister [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
I wrote the following
I think Borbas
On 1/6/2007 8:27 PM, Kyle R. Mcallister wrote:
2. With no plastic covers (Miklos' ping pong balls), it works like an
electric pinwheel, just like we used to run from a Wimshurst machine, at
which point everyone was amused.
3. Cover the ends of the wires on the pinwheel with plastic
On Jun 2, 2007, at 2:59 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
According to the logic of Newton's laws of motion, the ions have to
remain
immobile to be able to pull the ball forward. However, the forward
motion
the ball will in turn be impeded by the ions immobility.
Therefore, the ball should not
I wrote: It is an attracting force, thus the thrust obtained from
the vacuum is in the form of an attraction of the ball.
That was meant to say: It is an attracting force, thus the thrust
obtained from the vacuum is in the form of an attraction of the tip.
Regards,
Horace Heffner
On May 31, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Ghost of Brorillium wrote:
Can someone with more knoweldege of these effects look at this and
give some opinions? Is this the real thing or is it something mundane?
This may be the real thing, though there is no need for an ether
explanation. The
@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On May 31, 2007, at 6:37 PM, Ghost of Brorillium wrote:
Can someone with more knoweldege of these effects look at this and
give some opinions? Is this the real thing or is it something mundane
On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:19 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
I am not sure a virtual current needs to be invoked until a real
one, which would point to a mundane ion wind effect, has been ruled
out. Can you measure the current delivered by your flyback GOB?
Note that when the ping pong balls are
--- Michel Jullian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not sure a virtual current needs to be invoked
until a real one, which would point to a mundane ion
wind effect, has been ruled out. Can you measure the
current delivered by your flyback GOB?
Michel
Cant meausre it very easily but it isnt
On Jun 1, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Ghost of Brorillium wrote:
I think maybe the spray from the needlepoints is
charging the ends of the pingpong balls (or in mine
the piece of maskingtape) and this is attracted to
stuff around the thing because the charged part of the
balls makes a stronger e field.
I wrote: I fixed charge can not cause the 360 degree sustained
rotation. The rotor should cog and eventually stop at the point of
greatest attraction if the cause of motion is the charge on the ping
pong ball.
That should say: A fixed charge can not cause the 360 degree
sustained
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:19 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
I am not sure a virtual current needs to be invoked until a real
On Jun 1, 2007, at 4:15 PM, Michel Jullian wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miklos Borbas Thruster??
On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:19 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
I am not sure
Howdy folks,
Well, I bit (past tense of I'll bite) so I made one of these things
and tested it. It does work, as Miklos Borbas says, but some things need
to be addressed here.
1. The power supply I used outputs 10 - 30kVDC at around 5mA. Higher
current is available, but I limit it to this
Hey Vorts,
Anyone seen this thing from Borbas on newelectrogravity?
http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/unipolar.htm
Him and afew people on newelectrogravity think this thing in the biefeld
brown effect or something like that and that its a space drive. It looks like
the pinwheel
49 matches
Mail list logo
