Re: [Vo]: New Rossi lab photo has much information
does anyone have analyses the color code they show on Wikipedia? 2014-11-05 7:55 GMT+01:00 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com: On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: From the other pictures, it is pretty clear that Rossi is using a sheathed k-type thermocouple with the hotCat. Because this thermocouple is not rated to operate at the temperatures that the reactor convection tube was supposedly operating, it appears that Rossi had placed (by design) the thermocouple in a cooler section of the hotCat (the end for example) ... I'm curious what details distinguish a k-type thermocouple visually from a b-type thermocouple, which are identifiable in a photograph. (I note that Wikipedia says that a k-type thermocouple can be used up to 1350 C [1].) Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple#Type_K
[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can the wave function of an electron be divided and trapped?
From: Kevin O'Malley This paper sounds familiar, as if I had heard the same things a couple of years ago. But I've searched through Vort archives and nothing rings the bell. Kevin, Not sure what direction you are going with this – but in 2010 – we were talking about fractional electron charge (AKA: FQHE) as being the driving force behind one form of LENR – at least the non-nuclear version of LENR and possibly the Mills’ version - which happens at the nanoscale or in Casimir cavities. Several times since then, the fractional Hall effect has been tied to thermal anomalies. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg40603.html “I won't go into all of the lore of monatomic hydrogen, going back to Langmuir, or the Mills' version of fractional hydrogen called the hydrino - except to say that there is another possibility that encompasses both of these phenomena - and it can explain other hot hydrogen (HH) phenomena or anomalies, so long as we limit it to two dimensions. This possibility would also suggest that a Casimir cavity is or acts 'as if' it were a two dimensional space. There are a number of papers on this second prerequisite, many of them by Calloni, but I will save that for another time. The argument is sound. According to Laughlin, electrons can form an exotic state with fractional charge in two dimensions. Unlike the putative hydrino, this seemingly odder beast is accepted by the mainstream. It has even won a Nobel. Consequently, taking this bit of insight to the next level - given that all electrons are happy to form pairs, it is suggested that HH is itself related to FQHE via paired electrons.”
Re: [Vo]: New Rossi lab photo has much information
The common ANSI color code for K-type is yellow. The wire jacket is yellow (must be the same as the thermocouple wire because the lead wire is thermocouple wire) and the connector on the sheathed thermocouple is yellow. There is not really an ANSI color code for B-type, but I think most common is gray. B-type uses platinum for one of the wires, making it quite expensive. Note the long lead lengths of the wires in the photo. On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 11:55 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: From the other pictures, it is pretty clear that Rossi is using a sheathed k-type thermocouple with the hotCat. Because this thermocouple is not rated to operate at the temperatures that the reactor convection tube was supposedly operating, it appears that Rossi had placed (by design) the thermocouple in a cooler section of the hotCat (the end for example) ... I'm curious what details distinguish a k-type thermocouple visually from a b-type thermocouple, which are identifiable in a photograph. (I note that Wikipedia says that a k-type thermocouple can be used up to 1350 C [1].) Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple#Type_K
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Can the wave function of an electron be divided and trapped?
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:54 AM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: This paper sounds familiar, as if I had heard the same things a couple of years ago. Nature, three years ago: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v485/n7396/full/nature10974.html
[Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
[Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Can the wave function of an electron be divided and trapped?
An interesting possibility about FQHE – in the context of LENR, is that there could be a transient version inside a Casimir cavity. The phenomenon of the fractional quantum Hall effect (FQHE) occurs when electrons are contained in two dimensions, cooled to near absolute zero temperature, and exposed to a strong magnetic field. On the surface, it would seem that this cannot happen in LENR as a static phenomenon, as the temperature is way too high… but electrons confined inside a dielectric Casimir cavity, which is inside a metal matrix - even at 500C could experience a transient version of FQHE in a situation where SPP are supplying the strong magnetic field, and virtual photon exclusion by the cavity walls provides the cooling effect, and the inside of a Casimir cavity can be modeled as 2-D. The first and last are found in prior scientific studies, but the cooling effect is not seen in the literature, AFAIK. Jones Kevin, Not sure what direction you are going with this – but in 2010 – we were talking about fractional electron charge (AKA: FQHE) as being the driving force behind one form of LENR – at least the non-nuclear version of LENR and possibly the Mills’ version - which happens at the nanoscale or in Casimir cavities. Several times since then, the fractional Hall effect has been tied to thermal anomalies. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg40603.html “I won't go into all of the lore of monatomic hydrogen, going back to Langmuir, or the Mills' version of fractional hydrogen called the hydrino - except to say that there is another possibility that encompasses both of these phenomena - and it can explain other hot hydrogen (HH) phenomena or anomalies, so long as we limit it to two dimensions. This possibility would also suggest that a Casimir cavity is or acts 'as if' it were a two dimensional space. There are a number of papers on this second prerequisite, many of them by Calloni, but I will save that for another time. The argument is sound. According to Laughlin, electrons can form an exotic state with fractional charge in two dimensions. Unlike the putative hydrino, this seemingly odder beast is accepted by the mainstream. It has even won a Nobel. Consequently, taking this bit of insight to the next level - given that all electrons are happy to form pairs, it is suggested that HH is itself related to FQHE via paired electrons.”
[Vo]:Re: COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Waaaitaminute. That doesn't make sense. If he's looking into gas to power the system, than why not use another eCat? Surely his eCats can provide the same level of heat that gas can. In which case, he would have a system with unlimited COP. Something doesn't add up here. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
[Vo]:Mass equivalenc of charge
Over the years here on vortex, we have considered the mass-equivalence of charge as being intrinsic to understanding thermal anomalies under the broad category of LENR (despite the fact that there is nothing nuclear going on). This would be an important parameter if it was discovered that FQHE plays a role in LENR, or possibly we can go so far as to say *FQHE is LENR* in some experiments, where no high energy radiation is seen. Which is to say, can confined electrons, either free or in hydrogen orbitals, be forced to give up fractional charge in 2-D space which is converted to mass in 3-D space, and which is later regauged by zero point? Here is a provocative paper for the open-minded - which considers charge as a photon http://milesmathis.com/photon3.pdf By energy, this makes the charge photon infrared. By wavelength, it makes the charge photon ultraviolet. But since I [Mathis] have thrown out the current wavelengths as inapplicable to the photon itself, we should look at energy. The charge photon is still infrared. IR and UV radiation, in general - both turn up in LENR more often than visible light, or RF, or x-rays, or gamma. This cross-identity of a photon-like carrier particle for LERN could be the crux of what has confused many theorists all along - including Randell Mills, America's Newton . g Jones
Re: [Vo]:Re: COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
We also don't know the pretest history of the ecat unit that was presented to the Lugano testers. We have no idea if a certain amount of energy must be fed to the ecat before it is ready for testing. Harry On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Waaaitaminute. That doesn't make sense. If he's looking into gas to power the system, than why not use another eCat? Surely his eCats can provide the same level of heat that gas can. In which case, he would have a system with unlimited COP. Something doesn't add up here. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Of course the COP=3 argument may not apply when a well designed ECAT is put into service. My simulations suggest that the geometry of the device can be adjusted to achieve a higher COP if required. We need to realize that the testing done by the scientists was not conducted in a manner that optimized the COP and they stated that in their report. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 10:37 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:Re: COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
The problem is that you seem convinced that a COP of 3 is going to be the best that Rossi can deliver. I do not believe that is an accurate assumption. Dave -Original Message- From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 11:12 am Subject: [Vo]:Re: COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal Waaaitaminute. That doesn't make sense. If he's looking into gas to power the system, than why not use another eCat? Surely his eCats can provide the same level of heat that gas can. In which case, he would have a system with unlimited COP. Something doesn't add up here. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
David, Rossi is agreeing on JONP that they need to use gas as well. My question is though if they can use gas, why not use a self-feedback system. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Of course the COP=3 argument may not apply when a well designed ECAT is put into service. My simulations suggest that the geometry of the device can be adjusted to achieve a higher COP if required. We need to realize that the testing done by the scientists was not conducted in a manner that optimized the COP and they stated that in their report. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 10:37 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:49:08 AM David, Rossi is agreeing on JONP that they need to use gas as well. My question is though if they can use gas, why not use a self-feedback system. Might be that the adjustment of temperature needs to be controlled quickly ... and one full ecat responds too slowly to feed another. We already have a cat and mouse but no details at all on what it might be or how it might work. It's still very early in the engineering cycle to go to more complicated systems. They can make plenty of money from a COP=6 thermal system, even with an electric drive.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
A COP of 3 is not accurate according to the specifications supplied by Rossi. It is important not to assume that the lower limitation is firmly established since thermal feedback can generally be used to increase that number significantly. The main problem is to keep the device from going into a thermal run away condition. If my simulations are anywhere close to reality, the geometry of the CAT can be adjusted to allow the internally generated heat power to sink away from its source at a rate that exceeds its generation level at all the operational temperatures. The 4th power heat sinking rate due to radiation can win the race against any internal rate of power generation of a lower order. It is my belief that this is why Rossi and company use that path as the ultimate means of transferring most of the core generated power into the outside system. The nonlinear nature of the high order radiation sink working with a less strong thermal convection and conduction paths are key to achieving a stable overall system with a reasonable COP. One thought to consider is that using the radiation transfer of most of the core power to the outside world can safely take place if the thermal sink temperature is moderately lower than the surface temperature of the ECAT. For instance, if the walls surrounding the ECAT are operating at 1/2 the temperature of the device then the radiation backwards to the ECAT is 1/2 raised to the 4th power which is 1/16 the forward direction. This strong directivity of the radiation path can be used to great advantage in the achievement of thermal stability. Dave -Original Message- From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 12:38 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Even at a COP of 6 gas heating would be better than electric when overall system cost is considered. This is because gas is so cheap these days. Can you show where Rossi has declared that his delivered COP is guaranteed to be less than 6? I have never seen any reference to a number less than 6 from him. Dave -Original Message- From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 12:49 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal David, Rossi is agreeing on JONP that they need to use gas as well. My question is though if they can use gas, why not use a self-feedback system. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Of course the COP=3 argument may not apply when a well designed ECAT is put into service. My simulations suggest that the geometry of the device can be adjusted to achieve a higher COP if required. We need to realize that the testing done by the scientists was not conducted in a manner that optimized the COP and they stated that in their report. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 10:37 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Did you see the piccy of Rossi testing those three single phase reactors? Think about that. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Did you see the piccy of Rossi testing those three single phase reactors? Think about that. Three can self-sustain. I said earlier that we would see no more tests by Rossi. I retract that statement. We'll see one more, I think. wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Yesterday (probably already posted) Bob November 4th, 2014 at 1:20 PM Dear Andrea Rossi 1. Do you know what is the maximum temperature an operating e-cat can produce? 2. Have you achieved that temperature in an e-cat operation? 3. Are there any other e-cat applications you are presently working on in addition to plant for manufacturing and possible aircraft engine use? Thanks Bob Andrea Rossi November 4th, 2014 at 3:13 PM Bob: 1- at peak 1,400°C 2- yes 3- presently we are focused on the 1 MW plant; apart from this, we are making RD mainly for gas driven E-Cats; obviously I am also studying on the reconciliations of the results of the measurements made by the ITP. Warm Regards, A.R. One of our Bobs ? #1 and #2 are a bit curious --- because the Legano cat reached 1400C, and they said they intentionally held it below full power. The implication is that it's COP=3 at full power, and you only get COP=6 in self-sustain mode. (Plus the all-the-nickel-transformed enigma) #3 relates to this discussion.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
I am wondering about one situation that has not been mentioned as far as I recall. If you place several of the ECAT type devices within a high temperature furnace then the surrounding temperature within the oven will be applied to the ECAT directly. Now that should be enough temperature to enable the core inside the unit to begin generating a lot of extra heat power. With that thought in mind, one might suggest that the ECAT becomes part of a larger overall system that could actually behave far differently than one undergoing a bench test. The furnace must have some means of allowing heat power to escape through its insulation. If this path is not adequate then the ECATS might well go into thermal runaway. So, I can imagine an overall system that has a number of ECATS operating in parallel with normal heating elements. After the furnace reaches its design temperature it might be possible to deactivate most of the electrical or gas heated regular units and obtain mainly free heat from the contributing ECATs. This would be a way to use the ECATs in a SSM that saves an enormous amount of energy cost. This might be the actual plan in the works. Dave -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 5, 2014 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal Did you see the piccy of Rossi testing those three single phase reactors? Think about that. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
I think the point you are missing is that these heat treatment plants (smelting, glass, etc) are already using electric furnace elements with a COP=1. They are not using coal fired elements. The electricity to drive these furnace elements is largely coming from coal. So if Rossi develops a direct plug-in replacement furnace element that uses 1/3 or less of the electricity, it is a big win for the plant operator and the country because 1/3 coal will be consumed with corresponding less pollution - without serious modification of the customer's equipment. His competition will be gas-fired furnace elements, which are in less widespread use because operating at that temperature is difficult for a gas furnace element. So Rossi is working on a gas-fired hotCat that will consume 1/3 of the gas to cover that base. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Ah, ok, thanks. Yes I was missing that On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: I think the point you are missing is that these heat treatment plants (smelting, glass, etc) are already using electric furnace elements with a COP=1. They are not using coal fired elements. The electricity to drive these furnace elements is largely coming from coal. So if Rossi develops a direct plug-in replacement furnace element that uses 1/3 or less of the electricity, it is a big win for the plant operator and the country because 1/3 coal will be consumed with corresponding less pollution - without serious modification of the customer's equipment. His competition will be gas-fired furnace elements, which are in less widespread use because operating at that temperature is difficult for a gas furnace element. So Rossi is working on a gas-fired hotCat that will consume 1/3 of the gas to cover that base. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: For sure, but it isn't interesting to take electrical and do a 3:1 COP on it. what's interesting is to take coal or gas and do a 3:1 COP on it. But I think if Rossi can do that, than I think he should be pretty close to just using an eCat for it. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: It is interesting to note that Rossi's lower temperature eCat arrays appear to go into service for heating. If you look at his hotCats, they are being configured as industrial furnace heating elements. Operating at 1000C, these furnace heating elements being replaced are mostly electrical with a COP=1 (as Bob Greenyer showed, some are gas). A COP=3+ heating element for these industrial furnace applications will save a lot of money and coal because coal is being used to drive the COP=1 furnace elements today. I think the biggest expense for some of these large companies that use heat treatment is the energy cost and I think a COP=3+ for a T=1300C+ furnace element will sell well. There are no heat pumps in such a high temperature application to compete with. In China, pollution is so bad that the real cost of coal is high. The money appears to be in heat at the moment, not in electrical production. It is 28F here this morning and we just had our first dusting of snow. I could really use a nice COP=3 heater. In cold weather climates, even cold weather optimized heat pumps don't operate with a COP over 3. There would be a nice home market here. Bob Higgins On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting posts on e-cat world lately. It's a good point. If coal is so cheap, than a cop of 3:1 for electricity - thermal isn't going to cut it. They're are going to need to be able to power the cat by coal itself or gas and get a 3:1 thermal - thermal ratio.
Re: [Vo]:Mass equivalenc of charge
Re: FQHE There is a connection between LENR and the Fractional Quantum Hall Effect. That connection is the production of quasi-stable particles from the vacuum as stimulated by the action of a magnetic field. Under the influence of a electron, a impinging magnetic field produces two counter rotating vortexes of magnetic flux in the vacuum. This magnetic behavior relative to the electron produces what is called Composite fermions. this theory is a result of the repulsive interactions produced by these two vortexes (or, in general, an even number of vortices) are captured by each electron, forming integer-charged quasiparticles called composite fermions. The fractional states of the electrons are understood as the integer QHE of composite fermions. For example, this makes electrons at filling factors 1/3, 2/5, 3/7, etc. behave in the same way as at filling factor 1, 2, 3, etc. The vortexes steal charge from the electron as the Composite fermions attempt to minimize the enegy of that system. Composite fermions have been observed, and the theory has been partially verified by experiment and modeled by computer calculations. Composite fermions are valid even beyond the fractional quantum Hall effect in a degraded state; for example, the filling factor 1/2 corresponds to zero magnetic field for composite fermions, resulting in their Fermi sea. One possible explanation of Mills observation of fractional charge might be the FQHE. In LENR, magnetic fields produces subatomic particles from the vacuum in the presence of atomic nuclei. These mesons tend to destabilize the nuclei by disrupting the pion stabilizing intercommunication protocol between protons and neutrons. Further, as the mesons decay into pions and then muons, muon catalyzed fusion occurs. As in the FQHE, the field strength of the magnetic field results in a wide variation of disruptive nuclear effects involving many atoms which might even include the production in its most powerful manifestation, a quark gluon plasma from with multi-nuclei cluster fusion results. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Over the years here on vortex, we have considered the mass-equivalence of charge as being intrinsic to understanding thermal anomalies under the broad category of LENR (despite the fact that there is nothing nuclear going on). This would be an important parameter if it was discovered that FQHE plays a role in LENR, or possibly we can go so far as to say *FQHE is LENR* in some experiments, where no high energy radiation is seen. Which is to say, can confined electrons, either free or in hydrogen orbitals, be forced to give up fractional charge in 2-D space which is converted to mass in 3-D space, and which is later regauged by zero point? Here is a provocative paper for the open-minded - which considers charge as a photon http://milesmathis.com/photon3.pdf “By energy, this makes the charge photon infrared. By wavelength, it makes the charge photon ultraviolet. But since I [Mathis] have thrown out the current wavelengths as inapplicable to the photon itself, we should look at energy. The charge photon is still infrared.” IR and UV radiation, in general - both turn up in LENR more often than visible light, or RF, or x-rays, or gamma. This cross-identity of a “photon-like” carrier particle for LERN could be the crux of what has confused many theorists all along – including Randell Mills, “America’s Newton” … g Jones
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
I have always believed from the very begining that the Ni/H reactor should have been based on a liquid metal heat pipe concept. The heat pipe concept is required to keep the reaction zone inside the E-Cat free of combustion gases that might come from using natural gas as a external heat source. The heat pipe is a great heat isolation and transfer technique used to move heat in a controlled manor. Heat flow in heat pipes can be setup to use computer controlled flow valves to regulate how much heat stimulation that a E-Cat might receive. As central Lithium storage reservoir can connect all the 103 E-Cats together whereby the heat from a subset of hot E-Cats could stimulate the reaction in a subset of cooler an less active E-Cats. The common Lithium reservoir might be initially brought up to operating temperature using natural gas. As the E-Cat array got rolling, the natural gas external heat source could be shut off and the E-Cat array could run in self sustaining mode. Furthermore, the excess heat from the reservoir could be used to to power a turbine to produce electricity at high efficiency as well as provide high quality industrial heat and hydrogen for the chemical industry. A lithium heat pipe system would be a good fit to operated in a Ni/H reactor heat range at about 1300C to 1400C. If you are a worrier, other elements could be added to lithium to make it more benign and adjust it melting and vaporization points. Molten salts are based on this concept. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: *From: *Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com *Sent: *Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:49:08 AM David, Rossi is agreeing on JONP that they need to use gas as well. My question is though if they can use gas, why not use a self-feedback system. Might be that the adjustment of temperature needs to be controlled quickly ... and one full ecat responds too slowly to feed another. We already have a cat and mouse but no details at all on what it might be or how it might work. It's still very early in the engineering cycle to go to more complicated systems. They can make plenty of money from a COP=6 thermal system, even with an electric drive.
Re: [Vo]:Mass equivalenc of charge
Interesting that Aether/orgone is also said to have a strong connection to IR and UV. And orgone seems connected to electrons and charge and one term given to this is soft electrons or similar concepts of a form of electron charge. This could be where the interface between my woo-woo and the more hard science side of things. Jones, I could do with one of your hypotheses about now. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 5:13 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Over the years here on vortex, we have considered the mass-equivalence of charge as being intrinsic to understanding thermal anomalies under the broad category of LENR (despite the fact that there is nothing nuclear going on). This would be an important parameter if it was discovered that FQHE plays a role in LENR, or possibly we can go so far as to say *FQHE is LENR* in some experiments, where no high energy radiation is seen. Which is to say, can confined electrons, either free or in hydrogen orbitals, be forced to give up fractional charge in 2-D space which is converted to mass in 3-D space, and which is later regauged by zero point? Here is a provocative paper for the open-minded - which considers charge as a photon http://milesmathis.com/photon3.pdf “By energy, this makes the charge photon infrared. By wavelength, it makes the charge photon ultraviolet. But since I [Mathis] have thrown out the current wavelengths as inapplicable to the photon itself, we should look at energy. The charge photon is still infrared.” IR and UV radiation, in general - both turn up in LENR more often than visible light, or RF, or x-rays, or gamma. This cross-identity of a “photon-like” carrier particle for LERN could be the crux of what has confused many theorists all along – including Randell Mills, “America’s Newton” … g Jones
[Vo]:Virtual photon superradiance
http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.113.193002 Quantum Fluctuations Affect a Row of Distant Ions The quantum vacuum teems with particles flitting in and out of existence, with small but measurable effects on matter. A team of Israeli researchers now show that virtual photons produce a tiny collective energy change in a row of trapped ions even when the ions are micrometers apart. This action at a distance is a hallmark of the LENR reaction. Greatly enhanced virtual photons strength function in LENR to stabilize radioactive byproducts of fusion reactions. The influence of virtual photons in the quantum vacuum was first seen in frequency shifts in the fine structure of the hydrogen spectrum. The discovery of this “Lamb shift”—named for the Nobel-prize-winning experimenter Willis Lamb who first measured it—inspired a new description of the electromagnetic field’s interaction with matter: quantum electrodynamics (another Nobel-prize-winning effort.) In this latest research, physicists have used atom-trapping technology to show how the vacuum’s effects grow when many identical emitters interact. For example, in “superradiance,” the total emission increases because virtual photons emitted by one atom stimulate emission by the others. The corresponding “collective Lamb shift” of the energy levels has previously been measured for emitters that are closer than the light wavelength, so their dipole moments interact directly. Atoms are bosoms and when bosoms all communicate so that they work in unison, greatly enhanced super-radiance resonance results. Polaritons are strongly coupled through dipole thermal vibrations. A collection of polaritons will quickly reach a state of condensation to a common residential quantum configuration. The virtual particles produced by this condensate is super-radiant meaning those disturbances in the EMF field will be greatly amplified and there effects will be felt at a considerable distance from there point of origin. Not only the magnetic anaplole fields produced by polariton solitons will be greatly amplified by super-radiance but also the associated virtual particles derived from disturbances in the vacuum in which the polariton solitons condensate rests will also be greatly amplified. In such a situation, a very quick or even instantaneous stabilization of radioactive nuclear wast products from fusion reactions will result.
Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal
Neri B. November 5th, 2014 at 1:27 PM Dear Andrea, in TPR 1 we saw 3 tests: in the first the reactor melted, in the others two tests the COP was 5.6 and 2.9. Recently you stated that someone has experienced the cat could become a tiger. Can you please tell us which is the highest COP you ever achieved in your internal test for a reasonable period of time and at what temperature? Thank you Andrea Rossi November 5th, 2014 at 3:53 PM Neri B.: When I said the Cat can become a Tiger it was referred ironically to a totally different issue…anyway we reached very high COPS, but in very Dangerous situations, so it is not proper to talk of them. That was extreme RD Warm Regards, A.R. WaltC November 5th, 2014 at 4:42 PM Dear Andrea, When you spoke to Neri B. of “Dangerous situations”, are we talking: 1) Dangerous- as in “BOOM!”, 2) Dangerous- as in it breaks, stops working and needs to be replaced (but no “BOOM!”), 3) or something else? Thanks, WaltC Andrea Rossi November 5th, 2014 at 5:20 PM Waltc: …and the right answer is…2! Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Virtual photon superradiance
It is difficult to try and keep up with you, axil axil. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.113.193002 Quantum Fluctuations Affect a Row of Distant Ions The quantum vacuum teems with particles flitting in and out of existence, with small but measurable effects on matter. A team of Israeli researchers now show that virtual photons produce a tiny collective energy change in a row of trapped ions even when the ions are micrometers apart. This action at a distance is a hallmark of the LENR reaction. Greatly enhanced virtual photons strength function in LENR to stabilize radioactive byproducts of fusion reactions. The influence of virtual photons in the quantum vacuum was first seen in frequency shifts in the fine structure of the hydrogen spectrum. The discovery of this “Lamb shift”—named for the Nobel-prize-winning experimenter Willis Lamb who first measured it—inspired a new description of the electromagnetic field’s interaction with matter: quantum electrodynamics (another Nobel-prize-winning effort.) In this latest research, physicists have used atom-trapping technology to show how the vacuum’s effects grow when many identical emitters interact. For example, in “superradiance,” the total emission increases because virtual photons emitted by one atom stimulate emission by the others. The corresponding “collective Lamb shift” of the energy levels has previously been measured for emitters that are closer than the light wavelength, so their dipole moments interact directly. Atoms are bosoms and when bosoms all communicate so that they work in unison, greatly enhanced super-radiance resonance results. Polaritons are strongly coupled through dipole thermal vibrations. A collection of polaritons will quickly reach a state of condensation to a common residential quantum configuration. The virtual particles produced by this condensate is super-radiant meaning those disturbances in the EMF field will be greatly amplified and there effects will be felt at a considerable distance from there point of origin. Not only the magnetic anaplole fields produced by polariton solitons will be greatly amplified by super-radiance but also the associated virtual particles derived from disturbances in the vacuum in which the polariton solitons condensate rests will also be greatly amplified. In such a situation, a very quick or even instantaneous stabilization of radioactive nuclear wast products from fusion reactions will result.
Re: [Vo]:Virtual photon superradiance
Atoms are bosoms and when bosoms all communicate I was trying to get a good visual on that... bos·om ˈbo͝ozəm/ *noun* plural noun: *bosoms* 1. a woman's chest. her ample bosom synonyms:bust https://www.google.com/search?num=30rlz=1C1GGGE___US551US551espv=2q=define+bustsa=Xei=reZaVJ-SEY2kyATzx4CgCAved=0CCEQ_SowAA , chest https://www.google.com/search?num=30rlz=1C1GGGE___US551US551espv=2q=define+chestsa=Xei=reZaVJ-SEY2kyATzx4CgCAved=0CCIQ_SowAA ; More - a woman's breast. - a part of a woman's dress covering the chest. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: It is difficult to try and keep up with you, axil axil. On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.113.193002 Quantum Fluctuations Affect a Row of Distant Ions The quantum vacuum teems with particles flitting in and out of existence, with small but measurable effects on matter. A team of Israeli researchers now show that virtual photons produce a tiny collective energy change in a row of trapped ions even when the ions are micrometers apart. This action at a distance is a hallmark of the LENR reaction. Greatly enhanced virtual photons strength function in LENR to stabilize radioactive byproducts of fusion reactions. The influence of virtual photons in the quantum vacuum was first seen in frequency shifts in the fine structure of the hydrogen spectrum. The discovery of this “Lamb shift”—named for the Nobel-prize-winning experimenter Willis Lamb who first measured it—inspired a new description of the electromagnetic field’s interaction with matter: quantum electrodynamics (another Nobel-prize-winning effort.) In this latest research, physicists have used atom-trapping technology to show how the vacuum’s effects grow when many identical emitters interact. For example, in “superradiance,” the total emission increases because virtual photons emitted by one atom stimulate emission by the others. The corresponding “collective Lamb shift” of the energy levels has previously been measured for emitters that are closer than the light wavelength, so their dipole moments interact directly. Atoms are bosoms and when bosoms all communicate so that they work in unison, greatly enhanced super-radiance resonance results. Polaritons are strongly coupled through dipole thermal vibrations. A collection of polaritons will quickly reach a state of condensation to a common residential quantum configuration. The virtual particles produced by this condensate is super-radiant meaning those disturbances in the EMF field will be greatly amplified and there effects will be felt at a considerable distance from there point of origin. Not only the magnetic anaplole fields produced by polariton solitons will be greatly amplified by super-radiance but also the associated virtual particles derived from disturbances in the vacuum in which the polariton solitons condensate rests will also be greatly amplified. In such a situation, a very quick or even instantaneous stabilization of radioactive nuclear wast products from fusion reactions will result.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: [Vo]:Can the wave function of an electron be divided and trapped?
Also, if you seek a transient effect, does heat exist in a moment? Heat is a chaotic form of random microscopic changes in kinetic energy, if so there should be windows where there is no change in momentum which could be argued to be as localized moments of zero heat? Additionally maybe the requirement for extreme cold can be overcome by an enhancement somehow in the background quantum field? It seems to me that heat is just noise, if the noise is too high you could just increase the 'signal'. The signal in this case is the nature of quantum effects in the vacuum, so maybe the vacuum can be enhanced to produce a more robust effect? Maybe various LENR experiments condition the vacuum quite unknowingly. John On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:41 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: An interesting possibility about FQHE – in the context of LENR, is that there could be a transient version inside a Casimir cavity. The phenomenon of the fractional quantum Hall effect (FQHE) occurs when electrons are contained in two dimensions, cooled to near absolute zero temperature, and exposed to a strong magnetic field. On the surface, it would seem that this cannot happen in LENR as a static phenomenon, as the temperature is way too high… but electrons confined inside a dielectric Casimir cavity, which is inside a metal matrix - even at 500C could experience a transient version of FQHE in a situation where SPP are supplying the strong magnetic field, and virtual photon exclusion by the cavity walls provides the cooling effect, and the inside of a Casimir cavity can be modeled as 2-D. The first and last are found in prior scientific studies, but the cooling effect is not seen in the literature, AFAIK. Jones Kevin, Not sure what direction you are going with this – but in 2010 – we were talking about fractional electron charge (AKA: FQHE) as being the driving force behind one form of LENR – at least the non-nuclear version of LENR and possibly the Mills’ version - which happens at the nanoscale or in Casimir cavities. Several times since then, the fractional Hall effect has been tied to thermal anomalies. *https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg40603.html* https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg40603.html “I won't go into all of the lore of monatomic hydrogen, going back to Langmuir, or the Mills' version of fractional hydrogen called the hydrino - except to say that there is another possibility that encompasses both of these phenomena - and it can explain other hot hydrogen (HH) phenomena or anomalies, so long as we limit it to two dimensions. This possibility would also suggest that a Casimir cavity is or acts 'as if' it were a two dimensional space. There are a number of papers on this second prerequisite, many of them by Calloni, but I will save that for another time. The argument is sound. According to Laughlin, electrons can form an exotic state with fractional charge in two dimensions. Unlike the putative hydrino, this seemingly odder beast is accepted by the mainstream. It has even won a Nobel. Consequently, taking this bit of insight to the next level - given that all electrons are happy to form pairs, it is suggested that HH is itself related to FQHE via paired electrons.”
