Re: [Vo]:First New Thorium Salt Reactor in 40 Years Comes Online

[Axil Axil]

My idea about the proper design of the quintessential LENR reactor is based
on this type of fission reactor. It has advantages, if only it did not need
U-235 to produce the neutrons that make it critical. With U-235 comes U-238
and that means Pu-239 is generated in abundance. This type of reactor is a
breeder.


But U-235 could be replaced with a source of abundant subatomic particles
to replace neutron generating fissile material to support criticality, then
the LENR/fission hybrid is good to go: completely safe, highly efficient,
highly desirable by the utility industry being amenable to economies of
scale, and able to replace coal and existing nuclear power in a plug and
play mode with maximum reuse of existing infrastructure in existing utility
based power plants.


The thorium blanket would shield and absorb the muons produced by the LENR
reaction and no radioactive byproducts or fissile material would result.

[image: Related image]

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> https://www.geek.com/science/first-new-thorium-salt-
> reactor-in-40-years-comes-online-1713296/
>

[Vo]:First New Thorium Salt Reactor in 40 Years Comes Online

[Axil Axil]

https://www.geek.com/science/first-new-thorium-salt-reactor-in-40-years-comes-online-1713296/

Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[Adrian Ashfield]

 Considering the Conservation of Miracles law, I wonder what the chances are 
that this is a kissing cousin to Rossi's E-Cat QX.  That he gets a higher COP 
due to the higher temperature he uses.
It will be interesting to find out more in October.

Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[Jed Rothwell]

bobcook39...@hotmail.com  wrote:

Axil nailed the major question.
>
>
>
> My conclusion about this omission is that open science is NOT in effect as
> part of Mizuno’s NDA with Dewey and others.  TOO BAD.
>
>
>
> Jed may know more about this issue!
>

As far as I know you are wrong. There are no restrictions on what Mizuno
can say. The only limit was the time and effort that went into the paper,
which is a lot more than you might think.

If you have questions about the paper, I suggest you ask him. You will see
how open it is. You might want to go through me, because I may translate
your questions into Japanese, if I think they are difficult to understand.

The graphs in the paper are not the best data from the Appendix A approach.
That is not closed science or anything like that. There just wasn't time to
run that data through the mill. Also, Mizuno cannot do these experiments in
warm weather because he has no air conditioner and he cannot afford to buy
one, so the calorimetry goes to pieces. That tells you a lot about the
funding for cold fusion.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Axil nailed the major question.

My conclusion about this omission is that open science is NOT in effect as part 
of Mizuno’s NDA with Dewey and others.  TOO BAD.

Jed may know more about this issue!

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Axil Axil
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:46 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

Since the reactor has an observation window, the experimenters should also look 
at the spectrum of the light produced by the reaction. They should look for 
polarization and spectral line splitting as per the stark effect.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:22 PM, JonesBeene 
> wrote:

New Mizuno glow discharge paper

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTpreprintob.pdf


Of interest


  1.  Active electrode is tin amount of palladium deposited on nickel mesh – by 
simple RUBBING
  2.  Nickel mesh does not work alone


See appendix A on page 26. These details are easy to overlook.

Speculation – Given that palladium works far better in electrolysis when 
alloyed with silver and given that nickel in this case only works with a thin 
coating of palladium, then an area of improvement (for the fine results already 
presented in the several hundred watt range) would be to coat the nickel mesh 
with both silver and palladium or do the rubbing with the alloy – not the pure 
Pd.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[Che]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:22 PM, JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
> Speculation – Given that palladium works far better in electrolysis when
> alloyed with silver and given that nickel in this case only works with a
> thin coating of palladium, then an area of improvement (for the fine
> results already presented in the several hundred watt range) would be to
> coat the nickel mesh with both silver and palladium or do the rubbing with
> the alloy – not the pure Pd.
>


What is the theorizing behind this metallic synergy..? Is this, say, some
fine-tuning of the Fermi electron energy bands or something -- in resonance
with the requirements for cold fusion reactions..?

RE: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: JonesBeene
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 9:00 AM
To: Vortex List
Subject: RE: [Vo]:There's the rub ...


Questions:

At  page 26 of the report  (one of the best/complete experimental reports I 
have read) says hydrogen is used   -" After a reaction metal sample has 
been fabricated,
the activation treatment, where the sample is maintained under a hydrogen gas 
atmosphere at high temperatures, dissociates deuterium molecules into atomic 
deuterium on the metal surface, and the amount of dissociated deuterium 
increases with increasing treatment time.”

Should this say deuterium?

Was there a measurement of helium in the residual deuterium after the 30 days 
of reaction?

Was the spectrum of the light being emitted measured for specific frequencies?

Bob Cook

___



To clarify:


  *   …But why not run pure hydrogen against pure deuterium, since there is 
less chance of fouling the D2 side, by using the other reactor?  The results 
would be most informative since we know that nickel alone does not work with 
deuterium. A natural suspicion is that nickel is taking the place of silver (in 
electrolysis cells where Pd-Ag is used). If excess is seen with protium – then 
perhaps Mizuno can get beyond the idea that this is the same kind of reaction 
as P pioneered. Actually glow discharge has been replicated many times but 
without great fanfare – see Naudin’s fine effort: 
http://quanthomme.free.fr/jlnlabs/cfr/index.htm


Going back 20 years (to the previous century) the original form of plasma 
electrolysis was called the "Ohmori-Mizuno Effect" and generally used a 
tungsten cathode in a liquid electrolyte with no vacuum. In this effect, 
thermal gain was demonstrated at high power and low COP in a plasma with both 
light water and heavy water. Mizuno then did many refinements, mostly using 
heavy water and then moving onto gas phase but he has or had patents 
(applications) for almost every permutation.

Liquid-phase plasma electrolysis is simpler to do but extremely hard on the 
electrodes and the runs are short. This is due to oxide ions and high current 
electrochemistry. Gas phase and glow discharge is more likely to be 
commercialized. Glow discharge is lower current which can operate for years - 
with the common examples being fluorescent 
lamps.

As for operating parameters, one can find support for many of these 
combinations being gainful in a plasma regime of around a few hundred volts.

  1.  Tungsten cathode – light water or heavy water – not glow
  2.  Palladium cathode – light or heavy water – not glow
  3.  Palladium/nickel cathode – gas-phase deuterium in glow discharge regime.

The last one is of most interest, especially if the gas is H2 not D2. But - the 
one combination that Mizuno mentions as failing – deuterium gas phase with only 
nickel as the electrode – no palladium is curious.

PLUS - If D2 is used, as Claytor is noted for doing – tritium is expected. 
Mizuno makes no mention of that.

This experiment may be the start of something very important, as mentioned - 
even if there is a long history of overlooked positive reports in plasma 
electrolysis. The high power level is almost demanded these days – several 
hundred watts minimum. There is ample evidence of gain in many different forms 
going back to the original Ohmori-Mizuno Effect (liquid phase) which is far 
simpler to pull off but probably not commercializable due to electrode 
degradation.

It would seem possible that the simplest way to move forward for those who want 
to approach high power glow discharge is gas phase H2 - so as to avoid tritium. 
Sooner or later – if Claytor is to be believed, Mizuno will look for tritium 
and find it.

.

RE: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[JonesBeene]

To clarify:

➢ …But why not run pure hydrogen against pure deuterium, since there is less 
chance of fouling the D2 side, by using the other reactor?  The results would 
be most informative since we know that nickel alone does not work with 
deuterium. A natural suspicion is that nickel is taking the place of silver (in 
electrolysis cells where Pd-Ag is used). If excess is seen with protium – then 
perhaps Mizuno can get beyond the idea that this is the same kind of reaction 
as P pioneered. Actually glow discharge has been replicated many times but 
without great fanfare – see Naudin’s fine effort: 
http://quanthomme.free.fr/jlnlabs/cfr/index.htm


Going back 20 years (to the previous century) the original form of plasma 
electrolysis was called the "Ohmori-Mizuno Effect" and generally used a 
tungsten cathode in a liquid electrolyte with no vacuum. In this effect, 
thermal gain was demonstrated at high power and low COP in a plasma with both 
light water and heavy water. Mizuno then did many refinements, mostly using 
heavy water and then moving onto gas phase but he has or had patents 
(applications) for almost every permutation.

Liquid-phase plasma electrolysis is simpler to do but extremely hard on the 
electrodes and the runs are short. This is due to oxide ions and high current 
electrochemistry. Gas phase and glow discharge is more likely to be 
commercialized. Glow discharge is lower current which can operate for years - 
with the common examples being fluorescent lamps.

As for operating parameters, one can find support for many of these 
combinations being gainful in a plasma regime of around a few hundred volts.
1) Tungsten cathode – light water or heavy water – not glow
2) Palladium cathode – light or heavy water – not glow
3) Palladium/nickel cathode – gas-phase deuterium in glow discharge regime.

The last one is of most interest, especially if the gas is H2 not D2. But - the 
one combination that Mizuno mentions as failing – deuterium gas phase with only 
nickel as the electrode – no palladium is curious. 

PLUS - If D2 is used, as Claytor is noted for doing – tritium is expected. 
Mizuno makes no mention of that.

This experiment may be the start of something very important, as mentioned - 
even if there is a long history of overlooked positive reports in plasma 
electrolysis. The high power level is almost demanded these days – several 
hundred watts minimum. There is ample evidence of gain in many different forms 
going back to the original Ohmori-Mizuno Effect (liquid phase) which is far 
simpler to pull off but probably not commercializable due to electrode 
degradation.

It would seem possible that the simplest way to move forward for those who want 
to approach high power glow discharge is gas phase H2 - so as to avoid tritium. 
Sooner or later – if Claytor is to be believed, Mizuno will look for tritium 
and find it.

.

Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:

I am supposed to get some sample data to go along with this. It is not here
> yet.
>

Actually, it is here, but it is in an antediluvian format. When I get this
straightened out I will put it in a Google spreadsheet available to
everyone.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[JonesBeene]

From: Jed Rothwell

I am supposed to get some sample data to go along with this. It is not here yet.


In the mean time …

Many of us may have a wish list and perhaps if enough interest is shown – 
someone may try to replicate this soon. For instance, the inclusion of a 
calibration reactor is fabulous – there can be little doubt of the gain, even 
with air-flow calorimetry. But why not run pure hydrogen against pure 
deuterium, since there is less chance of fouling the D2 side, by using the 
other reactor? 

The results would be most informative since we know that nickel alone does not 
work with deuterium. A natural suspicion is that nickel is taking the place of 
silver (in electrolysis cells where Pd-Ag is used). If excess is seen with 
protium – then perhaps Mizuno can get beyond the idea that this is the same 
kind of reaction as P pioneered. Actually glow discharge has been replicated 
many times but without great fanfare – see Naudin’s fine effort:
http://quanthomme.free.fr/jlnlabs/cfr/index.htm

This experiment may be the start of something very important, if it is 
replicated quickly at the high power level.

The only place now with the funding and talent to pull off a rapid replication 
is the group at Texas Tech

http://www.iccf19.com/_system/download/abstract_poster/AP52_Scarborough.pdf

Unless Naudin wants to have another go at it.

Re: [Vo]:There's the rub ...

[Jed Rothwell]

I am supposed to get some sample data to go along with this. It is not here
yet.

- Jed