Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it?that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry-Igor On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better.Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class-reloading.htmlJanne- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
H. I'm a committer of JettyLauncher. Johan is a committer of the Sysdeo Tomcat plugin. The options we have ;) Eelco On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Yeah. We're dependent on the Java environment itself to fix it. We all voted on that issue (started by Geert Bevin I believe) didn't we? Eelco On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it? that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry -Igor On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
but this has nothing to do with the launchers - its a classloader-IgorOn 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:H. I'm a committer of JettyLauncher. Johan is a committer of the Sysdeo Tomcat plugin. The options we have ;)EelcoOn 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006 , at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user-Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
if we /can/ make it work then im all for it, but i just dont think we can.-IgorOn 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Yeah. We're dependent on the Java environment itself to fix it. We all voted on that issue (started by Geert Bevin I believe) didn't we?EelcoOn 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it? that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry -IgorOn 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better.Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Yes! I've cast all my votes for it. There's very good chance that hotswap will be enhanced for Java 7 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=572396start=30tstart=120 Joni On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 10:08 -0700, Eelco Hillenius wrote: Yeah. We're dependent on the Java environment itself to fix it. We all voted on that issue (started by Geert Bevin I believe) didn't we? Eelco On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it? that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry -Igor On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
I know, I was referring to the last section. What fun we could have if we change the classloading for every new release. I know that compared with the Sysdeo plugin, JettyLauncher takes an extremely simplified approach to classloading. Works fine for development, but the Tomcat plugin actually resembles reality better. With all the annoying little issues that might come with that. Eelco On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but this has nothing to do with the launchers - its a classloader -Igor On 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H. I'm a committer of JettyLauncher. Johan is a committer of the Sysdeo Tomcat plugin. The options we have ;) Eelco On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006 , at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Coolio. Eelco On 8/28/06, Joni Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes! I've cast all my votes for it. There's very good chance that hotswap will be enhanced for Java 7 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=572396start=30tstart=120 Joni On Mon, 2006-08-28 at 10:08 -0700, Eelco Hillenius wrote: Yeah. We're dependent on the Java environment itself to fix it. We all voted on that issue (started by Geert Bevin I believe) didn't we? Eelco On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it? that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry -Igor On 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
we can't add class loaders on top of the web app class loaderThat is a very very bad idea. That will not work completely right in clustering or shutdown and then startup of a web app server.Because they can't find the classes then that are loaded with a class loader that is on top of a webapploader. If it is purely in developement then we could make special classloaders for the major containersFor Tomcat (sysdeo plugin) we already replace the webapp loader so that it takes everything right from the eclipse project) johanOn 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if we /can/ make it work then im all for it, but i just dont think we can.-IgorOn 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah. We're dependent on the Java environment itself to fix it. We all voted on that issue (started by Geert Bevin I believe) didn't we?EelcoOn 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what happens if an instance of the class that needs to be reloaded is in session? what if something holds a reference to it? that means some of your code might expect the new class but get the old one instead? remember tapestry doesnt hold state in objects like wicket does - at least not 4.x - the state is persisted seperately so nothing holds references to components/pages in tapestry -IgorOn 8/28/06, Janne Hietamäki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26.8.2006, at 0.05, Eelco Hillenius wrote: The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better.Just like what Howard has done? ;) http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/08/tapestry-5-progress-class- reloading.html Janne - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
I'd rather keep focussed on the framework itself, and let SUN handle the classloading thing. Eelco On 8/28/06, Johan Compagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we can't add class loaders on top of the web app class loader That is a very very bad idea. That will not work completely right in clustering or shutdown and then startup of a web app server. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
A high-class Java framework debate? Impossible. The stakes are too low for any class other than none. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 I'd like to point out the Tapestry 5.0 will be something like the third major rewrite of some form or another in a row. Francis Amanfo wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - -- Justin Lee http://www.antwerkz.com AIM : evan chooly Skype : evanchooly -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (Cygwin) iD8DBQFE7wGqJnQfEGuJ90MRA98AAKCIYPs/U4GG+RuzGTWIZLOkoofHRwCePaXL 9Wcs8vKSCSLu6CRcqqxGCGg= =KaGn -END PGP SIGNATURE- - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :)but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that.i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :)-Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems tomake a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybesomeone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancierthings, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5:Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. AvoidXML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classesand your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :)If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'dcertainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be aflamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworkslike Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvcframeworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-|Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimohttp://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Yeah, well at least he isnt trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :)-IgorOn 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Good question, I wasnt a list moderator at the time. However, he did a pretty good job of making an ass of himself so we just let him continue ;-) -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:32 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
yeah, but that is only fun for so long :)-IgorOn 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question, I wasn't a list moderator at the time. However, he did a pretty good job of making an ass of himself so we just let him continue ;-) -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:32 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
I remember a similar issue on the Velocity list a couple of years ago where the author of Freemarker came around on every opportunity he could find to bitch about Velocity. Pretty annoying. Eelco Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
we're not tired of you yet :D On 8/25/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, but that is only fun for so long :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question, I wasn't a list moderator at the time. However, he did a pretty good job of making an ass of himself so we just let him continue ;-) -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:32 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
OH SCHNAP -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wicket-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martijn Dashorst Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:59 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... we're not tired of you yet :D On 8/25/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, but that is only fun for so long :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question, I wasn't a list moderator at the time. However, he did a pretty good job of making an ass of himself so we just let him continue ;-) -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:32 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-) We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly. This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was. It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attack on his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we are on Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what he is doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikely though as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework (Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, together with some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely be improving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
thats ok, im used to getting abuse from my fellow team mates :) it is the glue that binds us together-IgorOn 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:OH SCHNAP -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wicket-user- [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Martijn Dashorst Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:59 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... we're not tired of you yet :D On 8/25/06, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah, but that is only fun for so long :) -IgorOn 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good question, I wasn't a list moderator at the time.However, he did a pretty good job of making an ass of himself so we just let him continue ;-) -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:32 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... why didnt you just ban him off the list? seems like a rational thing to do :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Scott T weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, well at least he isn't trolling your user list ;-)We used to have some douche bag from some other OS portal project (forget the name) troll the Jetspeed user-list constantly.This was back, oh, about 3-4 years ago. This person felt it was his duty to respond to every user question with how shitty Jetspeed was and how much better his portal was.It had to be the most unprofessional thing I had ever seen in all my days of developing OS software. -scott From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Igor Vaynberg Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 2:07 PM To: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ... seems to me like howard was the one who started the flamewar by talking crap about wicket in his blog comment :) but honestly, who cares? different people like different things, lets just leave it at that. i really liked tapestry and used it professionally when it was in the 3.x, beginnings of 4.x incarnations. but then i found wicket and it clicked with me because it works in a way that i like to work. im sure some people who are using wicket can try tapestry and switch because it fits them better. what pisses me off is when people who take no time to look at the framework start talking shit about it - especially when they are authors of competing frameworks themselves :) -Igor On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just read some of the features he proposes on his blog. He seems to make a big deal on getting the DI right with @InjectService. Maybe someone should tell him about @SpringBean? ;) I'm sure he does fancier things, though I doubt it's something you really need for the user interface. Furthermore: 'This is the theme for all of Tapestry 5: Simpler, easier, faster, more understandable, more powerful. Avoid XML. Improve productivity. Make the framework adapt to your classes and your methods, rather than the other way around.' ... So what's new/ different? :) If someone can point out some really drastic improvements I'd certainly be interested to learn... And before this is getting to be a flamewar. No-one of the team has a big problem with Tapestry, though some are ex-Tapestry users. I still hope component oriented frameworks like Wicket, Echo, GWT, and Tapestry will eat up the model 2/ web mvc frameworks, cause imo that's where the real evil is. 8-| Eelco On 8/25/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:It's understandable that he gives a strong opinion to a direct attackon his framework. He's probably as ill informed about Wicket as we areon Tapestry 5 though. So what she should do is take a look at what heis doing and see whether we can learn something from it. Unlikelythough as it'll still be the difference between an unmanaged framework(Wicket) and a managed/ declarative one (Tapestry). That, togetherwith some of the other major differences, makes that we'll likely beimproving our frameworks in very different directions. Eelco On 8/25/06, Francis Amanfo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
It's really annoying when forums or mailing lists assault weblog comments in a coordinated attack: don't do it! I mean, HLS is a you-know-what, and that's been obvious for some time, but we don't want the outside world to start looking at us like Mac users or anything. (I say that as a Mac user who's never threatened anyone's dog, etc.) What would be interesting is if someone posted a detailed response, at A Wicket Diary or Chillenious or something. Start a high-profile, high-class Java framework debate. I'd like to watch that. Otherwise, Cap'n Ahab can sink his ship very well without our help. Nathan Francis Amanfo wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
and if you are going to put down someones work at least leave your name!-IgorOn 8/25/06, Nathan Hamblen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:It's really annoying when forums or mailing lists assault weblog comments in a coordinated attack: don't do it! I mean, HLS is ayou-know-what, and that's been obvious for some time, but we don't wantthe outside world to start looking at us like Mac users or anything. (I say that as a Mac user who's never threatened anyone's dog, etc.)What would be interesting is if someone posted a detailed response, at AWicket Diary or Chillenious or something. Start a high-profile,high-class Java framework debate. I'd like to watch that. Otherwise, Cap'n Ahab can sink his ship very well without our help.NathanFrancis Amanfo wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards-Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimohttp://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Howard is bluffing here ...
Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't have discussions like this on the lists. The kind of discussion that is appropriate here though is if people find features/ tricks/ whatever that might make Wicket better. Eelco On 8/25/06, Nathan Hamblen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's really annoying when forums or mailing lists assault weblog comments in a coordinated attack: don't do it! I mean, HLS is a you-know-what, and that's been obvious for some time, but we don't want the outside world to start looking at us like Mac users or anything. (I say that as a Mac user who's never threatened anyone's dog, etc.) What would be interesting is if someone posted a detailed response, at A Wicket Diary or Chillenious or something. Start a high-profile, high-class Java framework debate. I'd like to watch that. Otherwise, Cap'n Ahab can sink his ship very well without our help. Nathan Francis Amanfo wrote: Hi all, I found this current post on Howard's blog. I quote it here: Wicket has a nice community and a few nice ideas, but it does not compare to what I have planned for Tapestry 5. I believe Java is going to thrive at the high end and performance is going to be one of the differentiators from Ruby on Rails. In addition, the Wicket model can't address the kind of short-cycle development issues that will be part of Tapestry 5. I think Wicket is fairly broken in that it stores the component model inside the HttpSession. This has been a critical flaw for JSF as well, where they've realized that they don't have a proper approach to handling true scalability. Wicket is a neater, cleaner version of Tapestry 1.0 or maybe 2.0. I've said in the past that I found it quite unambitious for starting from scratch. I'm now working on Tapestry 5 which is quite ambitious. Either this man is jealous of the success and popularity of Wicket or he might have forgotten to take his pills before hitting his fingers on his keyboard. Go remind him to do so the next time at: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4110180postID=115393199327621322 Regards - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
