[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Yuri y...@tsoft.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||y...@tsoft.com --- Comment #24 from Yuri y...@tsoft.com --- Bug 19992 discusses similar client-side time zone as well. On another note, why not close this current bug just sending the right time zone from the server (like it is done for the page history)? And if the new, client-side, way of handling of time zones is developed, all of the time zone uses should be done in the same fashion? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #23 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2011-09-02 09:15:16
UTC ---
Note that a client-side javascript does not even need access to user's
preferences to be stored on the server (so the user does not even need to be
logged on). The main reason is that a client browser already knows the user's
preferred locale, and this is also accessible to a javascript (for example the
javascript can also look at the value of the MIME header Accept-Language:é
present in the HTTP query).
Finally you may wonder: why a template ?
Just look at which kind of additional markup must be present in the generated
datetime, and you'll immediately see that this would not be very easy to edit
when posting messages, quoting them, reediting them. A template invokation can
be much more compact and still easy to interpret. The invokation of a protected
template hides the details of how the additional markup is generated, to work
in cooperation with a client-side javascript (also installed on the wiki).
It is much simpler to edit a message containing:
Blah blah... -- [[User:user name|user name]]
{{int:datetime|2011|12|31|23|59}}
rather than a message containing:
Blah blah... -- [[User:user name|user name]] span class=datetime
data=20111231235959lundi 31 décembre 2011, 23h59 UTC/span
And stil definitely better than messages currently containing:
Blah blah... -- [[User:user name|user name]] lundi 31 décembre 2011, 23h59
UTC
which is impossible to adapt reliably to user's preferences. But all these
messages will still be posted initially using:
Blah blah...
Do you understand now ?
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #22 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2011-09-02 09:00:08
UTC ---
You've not understood. What is needed is NOT generating custom formats for
dates time, but being able to generate a suitable HTMML text *with* its
markup, that allows a numeric timestamp to be recognized as such (as a
timestamp), reliably (not depending on a weak text parser trying to find where
there may be a datetime in the webpage's text), so that a user-specific setting
(working for example with a client-side javascript) will be reliably able to
format this date according to user preferences.
For this, the template does *not* even need to access to user preferences.
So instead of generating a blind format such as:
2011-12-31 23:59:59
in the web page (or any other format), the template would only generate
something like this:
span class=datetime2011-12-31 23:59:59/span
or, if the solution must be able to use a date time with a default localized
format according to the default language of the wiki (say in French), it would
generate something like:
span class=datetime data=20111231235959lundi 31 décembre 2011, 23h59
UTC/span
The result of this is that the HTML page becomes parsable reliably, and users
can have an *optional* javascript (loaded from its preferences) that will
reformat the timestamp using the parsable data contained in the markup which
gives its interpretation.
Then users can have their own locale preferences about how a prerendered date
can be reformatted. All users are then continuing to sign normally their posts,
using the usual sequence of tildes, that will in fine generate a reference to a
standard template generaring this preformatted date, along with its
interpretation defined by the markup also generated by the wiki-specific
template (this template would be wiki-specific only because it would implement
a default format for the preformatted datetime)
Of course this template can easily use the {{#formatdatetime|}} parse function
you indicate for generating the preformatted date, and also generate the
surrounding microformat markup (that gives the semantic of the formatted text).
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
Purodha Blissenbach bugzilla.wikime...@publi.purodha.net changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||bugzilla.wikime...@publi.pu
||rodha.net
--- Comment #21 from Purodha Blissenbach bugzilla.wikime...@publi.purodha.net
2011-09-02 06:18:54 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #16)
However, if this data is only accessed from a
template ...
How would user preferences being used or accessed inside the template?
We currently have no other mechanism than providing a parser function for it.
Maybe one function for each setting, maybe one function for all settings
with a parameter selecting which setting is to be accessed.
Then, as a matter of economic coding, why not pass the formatting string
(template) as yet another parameter to the parser function as well, letting
all the formatting happen there?
This is independent of its source, it could be a global fixed wiki setting,
a string from the MediaWiki name space, or an individual reader preference,
even a cookie for logged-out users would be possible. Of course it could
be explicitly passed to the formatting parser function from wikitext
The order in which these possible souces need to be checked is obvious.
Inside a parser function, caching can be dealt with, mechanims to do so
are already in place - think of wikis having script or dialect variations
such as Chinese or Serbian or Khasak, that do this type of caching already.
Since there are several more uses for the abovementioned decisionmaking,
it is likely to become a common subroutine in the MediaWiki code base
sooner or later, if it is not already there.
Inside parser function code, we can easily do string arithmetic which is
excessively slow and expensive if done in templates with parser function
calls. Thus, we can have a parser function use a string argument for the
date which is human and machine readable, sortable and comaprable, such
as in:
{{#formatdateandtime|2011-12-31 23:59:59 }}
{{#formatdateandtime|2011-12-31 23:59:59 | UTC }}
{{#formatdateandtime|2011-12-31 23:59:59 | -800 | formatstring }}
where the date-time is always UTC, the 2nd parameter gives the time zone
that is currently used to insert fixed format dates and times, and a
format string can be used ba users wanting to manually select one.
Did I forget anything?
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Reedy s...@reedyboy.net changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|easy| -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #20 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-11-05 17:16:53
UTC ---
What I suggested remains valid: place the effective code that will be generated
in a protected template, even if this template will use some custom
parserfunction.
Not all wikis will need such parser function (and the complexity of multiple
rendered versions of the same page in their cache).
In other words, I still think that the signature should not generate staitc
code but code that can be tuned on each wiki, and parsed easily (not based on
plain text), independantly of how the protected template will work or will use
internally to perform the effective rendering (this template could use
UILANGCODE, or could use a static format, or the parserfunction you suggest, it
does not matter, what is more important is that the tildes for timestamps
should not be saved in an irreversible ambiguous way, but still preferably in a
compact format that is easily readable and editable).
My suggestion of generating something like
{{mediawiki:datetime|2010|12|31|23|59|59}} remains as the simplest form that
any editor would read easily. you should not care about what will be in this
internationalization template.
But if you rally want a parser function, just do it, it will not change things
radically, because you'll still have exactly the same decisions to do about how
to cache the rendered pages, except that there will remain no possible
customization of this behavior for each wiki accourding to their local cache
policies. Using a template in a protected namespace as a delegate would avoid
avoid to patch the hardwired behavior of the suggested parserfunction, even if
you implement it later or add further options (these options should not be
visible in messages, they should netter be tuned directly in the protected
template, whose implementation will be almost always extremely basic).
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #11 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-13 06:20:00 UTC --- (In reply to comment #10) The signature preference os for the user signing the message. It has nothing to do with the format of the timestamp added after it, and that should NOT depend on the user signing the message, but on the user reading it ! Why do you think it would suddenly depend on the writing user's preference when it has never been so? Instead I am saying that we can create a new parser function that does the job properly by reading the time format preference from the user. The templates you are referring to are hacks at best and we can't use those for the default implementation. There is just no need to be able to customize the output with templates which are not suitable for the job. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #12 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 06:28:26
UTC ---
Why do you think it would suddenly depend on the writing user's preference...
?
Because this is explicitly what for I started this thread. It HAS to depend on
user's preferences, instead of site's preferences like it is done now. Did you
read the first message explaining why it is desirable for correct
internationalization ?
---
Finally, if you really want a new parser function, this should just be one that
will be able to retrieve a selected user preference, such as:
{{#pref:key}}
where the key will be a unique selector (possibly locale-neutral) for accessing
items within the user's preference (I assume that user preferences are stored
as a dictionnary of key=value pairs), acting much like a getenv(key)
With it you'll be able to retrieve indifferently:
- the user's preferred language (possibly set by default in the preferences by
default to match the UI language set in its browser)
- the user's preferred script (for languages that have multiple scripts)
- the user's preferred time format (12h with am/pm vs.24h)
- the user's preferred timezone (possibly set by default in the preferences by
default to match the timezone set in its browser, or UTC if this cannot be
determined and has not been set in preferences)
- the user's preferred date format (full, abbreviated, or possibly relative
such as one hour ago, or two years ago)
Note also that:
1. some locale information could be private data (so don't assume that these
parameters can be set in a subpage of the user page, because user pages are
public)
2. care should be done so that such data cannnot be silently used on other
templates that could make them public to everyone : beware of the effect of
cached pages : the impact will be that pages in the cache will have to depend
on the effective value of those specific locale elements used (this is already
the case for the language), and so the same page would have to be cached
multiple times depending on the values of these localized items (possibly by
building an ordered list of those items, then hashing this list with MD5 or
SHA1, and using this hash to mark the version to use to/from the cache) ;
3. the default anonymous user (when not logged on) could also have locale
preferences detected from its browser. Otherwise, the site's default locale
will still apply.
All those parameters can then be used conditionally when building the template
effectively used on each wiki, and references when saving a message signed with
four-tildes, or just the timestamp with five tildes.
For formatting dates with these parameters, we already have the builtin #time:
parser function (or #timel:, but it does not change the result if we specify
the date-time elements), it should be enough.
Yes, it is very simple to do in Mediawiki (even if for now we don't have a lot
of information accessible from user's data), with almost no change (just
replace the static date-time formatting in the PHP code, by a static call to
the standard template implementing the formatting specifically for each wiki).
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #13 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 06:37:28
UTC ---
(In reply to comment #11)
Why do you think it would suddenly depend on the writing user's preference
I have absolutely NOT said that, you have not understood or misread !
And in fact all I explained was the opposite: the timestamp format MUST
ABSOLUTELY NOT depend on who is signing the message (even if he can choose what
to include in his signature and that must be honored for every one reading
him), and SHOULD PREFERRABLY NOT depend on site preferences.
All this is speaking ONLY about improving the timestamp format and nothing
else, because this is what is saved in pages.
In other words, when I'll sign a message with what will be saved in the
page will be:
[[User:Verdy p|Verdy p]] {{mw:date-time|2010|12|31|23|59|59}}
instead of:
[[User:Verdy p|Verdy p]] 31 December 2010, 23:59:59 UTC
where ONLY the part [[User:Verdy p|Verdy p]] comes from my signature
preferences (independantly of who is reading the saved page).
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #14 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-13
06:42:58 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #12)
Because this is explicitly what for I started this thread. It HAS to depend on
user's preferences, instead of site's preferences like it is done now. Did you
read the first message explaining why it is desirable for correct
internationalization ?
Please stop assuming I don't get it. We are talking about the same thing
(writer is the person who signs his message, as opposed to any reader).
Finally, if you really want a new parser function, this should just be one
that
will be able to retrieve a selected user preference, such as:
{{#pref:key}}
Cannot do that, it would break caching and some people expect their preferences
to be private.
3. the default anonymous user (when not logged on) could also have locale
preferences detected from its browser. Otherwise, the site's default locale
will still apply.
Cannot do that either, because of caching, again.
I'm proposing a solution we can implement and which is very simple compared to
yours.
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #15 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 06:55:45 UTC --- Note also that we already have the support for internationalizable templates with the special int: namespace (whose value is stored in the mediawiki: namespace. This is extensively used in Translatewiki.net's wiki itself; it will benefit from the same efforts for internationalization and translations, and can be deployed as easily as when distributing new translations. What you propose will NOT avoid the cache problem: we really want to have the same page rendered differently between users reading the wiki (but it could help if the saved page was unique. In other words, your solution solves absolutely nothing and just complicates things even more for no benefit at all ! The cache on the opposite already has the support to deliver distinct renderings of the same wiki source page, according to user's UI language (only). For now all we have is a client-side javascript () that only works with dates saved in the US-English format, and incorrectly matches all dates that it may find by parsing all the contents in the page. It is not reliable, and does not work across wikis (in addition to not being accessible for WAI). So this user-selectable plugin does not work (in addition it is not deployed). The main problem for me is when I visit an site written in Indic scripts, or in Chinese, Arabic, Persian... these dates are undecipherable without lots of efforts and knowledge of its language (for month names, week day names...). And users in these wikis have the same difficulties when they try to read-write the discussions found in other Latin-written wikis. Even for Latin-written wikis, those dates are sometimes very confusive (due to their translation, or because of swapped fields, notably between d/m/y or y/md/d order, or because of unusual timezones that are indicated using a locally translated string, which is undecipherable for lot of people). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #16 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 07:05:20
UTC ---
(In reply to comment #14)
(In reply to comment #12)
Because this is explicitly what for I started this thread. It HAS to depend
on
user's preferences, instead of site's preferences like it is done now. Did
you
read the first message explaining why it is desirable for correct
internationalization ?
Please stop assuming I don't get it. We are talking about the same thing
(writer is the person who signs his message, as opposed to any reader).
Finally, if you really want a new parser function, this should just be one
that
will be able to retrieve a selected user preference, such as:
{{#pref:key}}
Cannot do that, it would break caching and some people expect their
preferences
to be private.
Once again you did not read. I already warned in my message about which kind of
data should be accessible or not. However, if this data is only accessed from a
template that will never generate it in the output (so it could be used only
from the protected mediawiki space), there's no danger: the only pupose will be
to conditionally format the timestamp elements specified in parameters.
And my first request did not include that #pref. It just wanted a template
using the same features already implemented (including the magic keyword that
gives the UI language of the reading user. Don't say it does not work, this is
false and is already used now in translatewiki.net as the preferred method
for translating everything.
And my proposal does not require any new parser function, or any modification
to the existing code for caching pages... This is exactly the same logic as
when using {{int:}} to translate the MediaWiki interface or for
autotranslating templates.
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #17 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-13
07:11:52 UTC ---
I understand the problem and I also understand how MediaWiki works what makes
sense. Yet however you fail to consider my solution (perhaps you still
misunderstand it after many tries?) and dismiss it without justification. After
that you go on and talk about various possibly related things that bring
nothing useful to this conversation. It annoys me a lot and it is definitely
*not* *helping* to get this bug fixed. Please think about that.
(In reply to comment #16)
And my first request did not include that #pref. It just wanted a template
using the same features already implemented (including the magic keyword that
gives the UI language of the reading user. Don't say it does not work, this is
false and is already used now in translatewiki.net as the preferred method
for translating everything.
If you mean {{UILANGCODE}}, it's an ugly hack that is only in translatewiki.net
and is not preferred for anything. Neither is {{int:}}, but I'm not going to
talk about that.
Just once more: with a template you cannot access reader's time preference, and
barely the reader's language with ugly hacks. With a parser function we can
access both and addition we can make sure that caching works correctly.
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #18 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 07:38:45
UTC ---
(In reply to comment #17)
After
that you go on and talk about various possibly related things that bring
nothing useful to this conversation. It annoys me a lot and it is definitely
*not* *helping* to get this bug fixed. Please think about that.
That's because you think it can't be done and reject all possible solutions
that I am discussing the alternatives. But my initial proposal was the
simplest, and the less costly.
{{UILANGCODE}} is not so ugly. It already does what you want: accessing the
user's preferred language (which can also be overriden by reloading the page
with ?lang= query string in the URL. This already works extensively on
Commons (not just Translatewiki.net), and the {{int:}} syntax (which also
accesses to the same variable internally) is also working very well since quite
a long now.
That's why a simply template can be built to format dates according to user's
UI. I am already discussing these because this really helps to have this bug
fixed, only to convince you that the solution is simple and will easily
deployed, inclusing on small third-party wikis that only support a single
language (the content of the template will be part of the other translatable
ressources)
For example the minimum deployment for supporting
{{int:date-time||mm|dd|hh|mm|ss}} will be this very basic code:
{{#time:c|{{{1}}}-{{{2}}}-{{{3}}}T{{{4}}}:{{{5}}}:{{{6}}}Z}}
Then replace only the c with the default format for the language of the wiki,
such as d F Y H:i:s.
If you want to take into account the user's language, use something like:
{{#switch:{{UILANGCODE}}
|en-US={{MONTHNAME|2}}}, {{{1}}} {{{3}}} {{#time:h:i:s
a|{{{4}}}:{{{5}}}:{{{6} (UTC)
|#default:{{#time:c|{{{1}}}-{{{2}}}-{{{3}}}T{{{4}}}:{{{5}}}:{{{6}}}Z}}
}}
(extend it on each wiki for the list of locale formats you want to support, by
just modifying this protected template ; no need to upgrade MediaWiki each time
or to restart it with an updated PHP hook code).
But if you want a specific builtin parser function, why not, as long as it will
allow the same localizations according to reader's UI preferred locale (and to
the lang= query parameter in the URL to override it), and as long as pages
won't be saved with a static (and not reliably parsable) preformatting.
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #19 from Platonides platoni...@gmail.com 2010-10-13 14:43:00 UTC
---
A template with one hundred options is barely simple.
It works as userland, but a parserfunction can do it better.
For instance:
function wfBug25746Function( $parser, $time = '' ) {
return $parser-getFunctionLang()-date( wfTimestamp( TS_MW, $time ) );
}
would automatically give you the time in the user language for interface
messages and in content language for pages.
Replacing $parser-getFunctionLang() with $wgLang would always give it in the
user language, BUT you could get pages cached in other users format.
It can be adjusted, but my main concern is that it would force using different
caches (in fact, this is already done for different languages, due to the edit
links but it's something to fix, not a path to follow).
And if you begin splitting on things like 12/24h formats, much more.
Note that you can end up with a very complex feature, but so costly that it
won't be enabled on WMF.
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #9 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 05:52:11 UTC --- (In reply to comment #4) Why should we make it available for templates when we can just as well format the time directly into users preferred time format (or the default for the language at least)? Yes, but want I watn is that this format is NO longer static for all users. So use a template as it is easy to do, but if you use the existing builtin parser functions, it won't localize the date in a format that users can read according to their preferences. So if you want, you may implement it via a new parser function that can take into consideration the user's locale, but be prepared to exceptions, as this is not just dependant on its language. Generating a standard template would allow other improvements for the rendering, when there will be, later, more parser functions to implement it. Note that there already exists a magic keyword from which you can know the user's locale. So this can already be done with a template, without adding a new parser functions. An in the future, there could exist more magic keywords or builtin functions that will retreive other local info than just the language: there should not be any need to change the template name generated, but this template implemetnation can easily be updated to offer new customizations according to new detectable user preferences in their locale (say: language, script, 12/24h format, abbreviated/long form...): how many new parser functions will we need ? What I propose is simpler: just generate the template with a default implementation and let this implementation be customized at any time on all wikis. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #10 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-13 05:57:46 UTC --- (In reply to comment #5) (In reply to comment #4) Why should we make it available for templates when we can just as well format the time directly into users preferred time format (or the default for the language at least)? The signature is subst'ed into the saved wikitext, so its formatting is fixed from there on out. You could format signatures from Persian users in Persian format, but that'd make Commons look like a huge mess. What Phillipe is asking for is some kind of variable timestamp format that obeys the preferences of the viewing user. The signature preference os for the user signing the message. It has nothing to do with the format of the timestamp added after it, and that should NOT depend on the user signing the message, but on the user reading it ! And don't forget that LiquiqThread is not unversally adopted, and has no use in many pages where we must still be able to sign, such ad community vote pages. Finally, many users don't want LiquidThreads in their own talk page. LiquidThread is only one option that is activated on specific pages by insterting some template. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||roan.katt...@gmail.com --- Comment #5 from Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com 2010-10-11 11:46:57 UTC --- (In reply to comment #4) Why should we make it available for templates when we can just as well format the time directly into users preferred time format (or the default for the language at least)? The signature is subst'ed into the saved wikitext, so its formatting is fixed from there on out. You could format signatures from Persian users in Persian format, but that'd make Commons look like a huge mess. What Phillipe is asking for is some kind of variable timestamp format that obeys the preferences of the viewing user. I wonder to what degree this isn't already done by LiquidThreads, though. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #6 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-11 13:54:56 UTC --- (In reply to comment #5) The signature is subst'ed into the saved wikitext, so its formatting is fixed from there on out. That's the thing we are debating to change. However I don't see the point of going as far as leaving the formatting to a template, we can just as well do it dynamically (more importantly, better) with a magic word. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||platoni...@gmail.com --- Comment #7 from Platonides platoni...@gmail.com 2010-10-11 14:00:17 UTC --- How would you use a magic word? You could use a parser function, but that's pretty much the same as using a template (the solutions are equivalent to me). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #8 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-11 14:02:30 UTC --- Yes I meant a parser function. The thing is that parser function can access user's preferred timezone preference while a template can not. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||niklas.laxst...@gmail.com --- Comment #4 from Niklas Laxström niklas.laxst...@gmail.com 2010-10-10 08:56:57 UTC --- Why should we make it available for templates when we can just as well format the time directly into users preferred time format (or the default for the language at least)? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476
--- Comment #1 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-10 03:51:37 UTC
---
Note that the default implementation of the proposed template (actually in the
mediawiki protected space) would just use the existing {{#timel:}}
ParserFunction for converting it, even if this does not take into account
user's preferences for its language/script. However, more advanced wikis will
then be able to customize this template to offer internationalization
accourding to user's language, by using a format that will be automatically
localized using another ressource from {{int:}}, or some other normal templates
specific to the local wiki and managed locally).
Also the code generated may also use a global $wg configuration variable in
PHP, to specify the name of the template to insert in discussions instead of
the static name mw:date-time proposed here (the benefit being that old
discussions may still be readable if additional parameters, or parameters using
another format gets generated in a future MediaWiki version or in an extension
hook handling this timestamp formatting for signatures).
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[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #2 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-10 04:09:46 UTC --- Note also that this would be especially useful for Multilingual wikis (such as Commons, but also localized Wikipedias that use multiple scripts with distinct sets of digits such as Persian/Farsi, and most Indic languages, and as well to display the date and time in the preferred user's timezone instead of the default UTC for everyone). I know that this was discussed some years ago for old versions of Mediawiki, but now Mediawiki has made significant progresses in its implementation of caches, so supporting multiple locales for the same page should be much less an issue today as it was in the past). Note also that this does not mean that user's locale preferences will need to be implemented in all wikis (only those wikis that are deployed with enough ressources to support multiple rendering of the same page in distinct locales, may opt in to use an autotranslatable date-time format in the local implementation of the proposed template). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 --- Comment #3 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2010-10-10 04:14:59 UTC --- Note finally that some localized Wikimedia sites (including large ones) already implement multiple rendering locales for the same language, such as Chinese. Mediawiki's internal page caches are already handling this user preference, so I don't think that performance is a big issue (notably because the implementation of the timestamp formatting template can be extremely simple (and very small in terms of code size) in wiki source page caches, where it will be almost always resident ue to its very frequent use in all discussion pages, if this enhancement feature is enabled and deployed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||i18n -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25476] [i18n] Custom format for saved signature timestamps (four/five tildes)
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25476 Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||easy -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
