The trouble is that a particular individual may have many memberships
and affiliations -- some perhaps to small units like bands; but some to
larger groups like clubs, or artistic movements.
It's better to let humans decide where is the best place in a particular
language to redirect people
Hoi,
Maybe. At the same time other people are equally opposed to what you favour
so much. Your approach is one that is very much Wikipedia oriented. It is
not something that makes sense with a more Wikidata oriented approach.
The point is that quite often Wikidata is more informative than what
Hoi,
The only reason why Wikidata and Reasonator are not found is because this
is not configured.
yes you may think as you like and for how long as you like about Wikipedia
but that does not imply anything when it is not about Wikipedia.
Redirects are evil.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 10 December
Am 10.12.2014 13:47, schrieb Adrian Lang:
depends on what you consider ›the software‹. From my point of view, a
software is there to solve domain-specific problems, and as such, has
to have domain knowledge. Otherwise, it's useless. The question is,
which software solves which problem, and
Am 10.12.2014 13:16, schrieb Ricordisamoa:
I'm against that, too.
Relationships could be inferred by which properties are the most common on
similar items, and by which pages have the highest ratio of common links.
Statistics-based heuristics could work for this, but they make it hard to do
Redirects are great! They belong locally though and should not be attempted
cross-wiki
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi,
The only reason why Wikidata and Reasonator are not found is because this
is not configured.
yes you may think as you
Il 16/10/2014 18:50, Jane Darnell ha scritto:
Purodha,
Redirects are cheap - so cheap in fact, that they take up more space
when you delete them
Every deletion of any page (as almost every action in MediaWiki)
increases the size of the database.
That doesn't mean the wiki is more cluttered.
,
There is no need to have item for each redirect.
But it would be usefuil if SOME redirects could be linked in wikidta items
JAnD
2014-10-22 19:04 GMT+02:00 Smolenski Nikola smole...@eunet.rs:
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
On 22/10/2014 14:23, Smolenski Nikola wrote:
Citiranje
2014-10-22 15:48 GMT+02:00 James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
It's no problem if multiple redirects link to the same place.
For example, on en-wiki, we have
Luke Havell (redirect)- Havell family
Robert Havell (redirect) - Havell family
Daniel Havell (redirect) - Havell
OK Andy Gerard, cut it out! I like both of you, but we will never fix
things this way. As you correctly point out Gerard, Wikipedians should
spend more time adding labels and aliases to existing items and creating
new items on Wikidata rather than just making redirects on Wikipedia. As
you
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Wikidata is NOT there to serve the English Wikipedia at the expense of its
own integrity. A wish has been formulated to support redirects by
WIkipedians while Wikidata has been EXPLICITLY designed NOT to support
redirects but more importantly parts of articles.
If we
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 10:47 AM, svetlana svetl...@fastmail.com.au wrote:
If we have a need in pointing (at Wikibase/Wikidata) to redirects on a
regular basis, it might be time to rethink the relevant project design.
I think that rethinking the project design is the right approach here. To
Hoi,
I do not consider myself confused. I am speaking plain language.
The article: Death of Alice Gross has information about a living person
while it is NOT a living person. As it is, current practices like with the
Death of Alice Gross are problematic already enough.
When you want redirects,
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
(1) There would be no change to the item structure on Wikidata in any
way -- no change to the values of any of the item properties -- only
some extra sitelinks.
So I don't see *why* you think there would be any risk to Wikidata's
own integrity.
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
(1) There would be no change to the item structure on Wikidata in any
way -- no change to the values of any of the item properties -- only
some extra sitelinks.
So I don't see *why* you think there would be any risk to Wikidata's
own integrity.
On 22/10/2014 14:23, Smolenski Nikola wrote:
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
(1) There would be no change to the item structure on Wikidata in any
way -- no change to the values of any of the item properties -- only
some extra sitelinks.
So I don't see *why* you think there would be
Gerard, I still don't see a problem.
If somebody wants to search on Reasonator, they can search on
Reasonator, and they will get exactly the same Reasonator pages as
before -- the only difference is that those Reasonator pages will
include more links to relevant Wikipedia pages, with some of
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
On 22/10/2014 14:23, Smolenski Nikola wrote:
Citiranje James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk:
(1) There would be no change to the item structure on Wikidata in any
way -- no change to the values of any of the item properties -- only
some extra sitelinks.
Hoi,
FORGET ABOUT REASONATOR, FORGET ABOUT WIKIPEDIA, FORGET ABOUT WIKIDATA
It is about sharing information. That is what this is all about. The
information is NOT in Wikipedia, only the data is in Wikidata, there are
plenty examples of that. Redirects are something you come up with because
it
All right, that may not be a big problem. However, it would be a big problem
if
we have:
Q(Coat of Arms of Novi Sad) - Coat of Arms of Novi Sad - Novi Sad
Q(something) - Coat of arms of Novi Sad - Novi Sad
Q(something) - Coat of arms of novi sad - Novi Sad
This is an argument against
Citiranje Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com:
I do think though that having something like what you describe happen is
more
of a user error though. Can you think of any possible Q(something) that
Right now, since only linking to articles is allowed, and only one article can
be linked
Hoi,
If this Jackson Douglas is the best that you can do, you destroyed the
argument that it has merit. Have a look at what Jackson Douglas brings you
in Reasonato[1]r !! When you read the article, Mr Douglas is mentioned as
the spouse of Alex Borstein. That is all. Mr Douglas has articles in
On 21 October 2014 07:13, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
If this Jackson Douglas is the best that you can do, you destroyed the
argument that it has merit.
Gerard,
I like you; but you're being a dick. Please desist.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
Hoi,
When a position is taken that is manifestly wrong, it is worse to desist.
Andy I like you too but calling someone a dick because he does not agree
with you and calls bullshit on the points taken, the examples supplied is
not in the best tradition of our projects.
Wikidata is NOT there to
With articles it is obvious. The subject matter that will be provided IS what
is advertised. This is NOT the case with re-directs. They point to somewhere
arbitrary and there is no way to ensure that the redirect remains consistent
and fits the subject of the Wikidata item well.
I've seen
Just realized that I was not actually caught up but
replying to a message from a few days ago. Sorry if
the discussion has moved on. .
Thank you,
Derric Atzrott
___
Wikidata-l mailing list
Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On 19 October 2014 22:11, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote:
No James, redirects do not have templates or categories
Yes, they do.
See, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:R_from_relative
as used on, for example:
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
wrote:
On 18 October 2014 08:15, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
I think I requested P1472, I forgot all about it. It takes so long before
The proposal was mine:
Marielle Volz, 16/10/2014 14:25:
Right now we could make a page attenborough brothers, put
onlyinclude tags around the intro to all three articles, and boom,
article! This would somewhat ameliorate the problem Andrew was talking
about with incomplete linkage across languages.
This argument
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:54 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
wrote:
would it make sense to use wikidata for such tasks as well?
Wikidata already represents more granular information than an article, the
real problem is that the only way that we have to bind a piece of
information
But Gerard templates and the categories used on the *redirect* will be
specific to the redirect, so can draw quite happily from the item
corresponding to the redirect.
And templates and categories used on the *article* will be specific to
the article, so can draw quite happily from the item
No James, redirects do not have templates or categories. Back to the case
of the African plum, I have created an English label for the Wikidata item,
so that when I seach the English Wikipedia and choose the option
everything, this Wikidata item will show up:
Hoi,
Just for arguments sake I have included the information about Mr Havell to
Wikidata. The result is certainly informative when seen from the
Reasonator. [1]
Any and all people known in the Creator template on Commons can and
should have a Wikidata entry. When you are serious about the Havell
On the other hand, Gerard, the full sum of knowledge about Daniel Havell
has more dimensions that are presented by Reasonator only.
That's why it's useful for the Creator template to be able to contain a
link to a written-out biography, and for it to be able to continue to do
so even once its
Hoi,
I think I requested P1472, I forgot all about it. It takes so long before
properties are created and I certainly forget about this one. Anyway,
thanks for adding that to the Wikidata item. I added Mr Havell with his Q
number to the Creatore template. I blogged about Mr Havell as well. [1]
Hoi,
With articles it is obvious. The subject matter that will be provided IS
what is advertised. This is NOT the case with re-directs. They point to
somewhere arbitrary and there is no way to ensure that the redirect remains
consistent and fits the subject of the Wikidata item well. This is
Gerard
Do you want to delete sitelinks to wikipedia redirects or wikidata items
which redirect to other items?
Joe
On 17 Oct 2014 06:27, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi,
If there is something like a hatmaker, it can have an item even when there
is no article in the
Having sitelinks to redirects in my wikipedia makes it easier for other
wikipedias to link to my wikipedia.
If I dont care about that then I may delete those redirects from my
wikipedia and the sitelink to my wikipedia will go too.
The wikipedias have the final say on what they do and do not
My comments inline:
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Joe Filceolaire filceola...@gmail.com
wrote:
Having sitelinks to redirects in my wikipedia makes it easier for other
wikipedias to link to my wikipedia.
No, it only makes it easy for other wikipedias to link to redirects in your
wikipedia,
Hoi,
What has that to do with Wikidata ?
Thanks,
GerardM
On 16 October 2014 13:58, James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
You can make an *item* on Wikidata, no problem.
But if you try to make a corresponding *article* on en-wiki, people will
fold it into a list.
So it would be good for
Hoi,
I want to have any and all sitelinks to any and all projects that are not
an article deleted. Wikidata points to articles.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 17 October 2014 14:00, Joe Filceolaire filceola...@gmail.com wrote:
Gerard
Do you want to delete sitelinks to wikipedia redirects or wikidata
Thought I'd throw in my opinion on the matter. After reading this thread
I think that I agree with the folks who believe that Wikidata items should
be able to specify a Wikipedia article that is a redirect as a sitelink to
Wikipedia.
Its by no means an ideal solution, but I can't see any
I agree.
While redirects may be useful in the context of normal wiki pages and help
pages, they are counterproductive otherwise and must not be used. Can we not
permit / disallow redirects per-namespace via Wiki configuration?
Purodha
Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com writes:
Hoi,
I
I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what I
am saying.
To be clearer:
* Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink*
not the item.
* It is no more Wikipedia centric than noting that a link goes to a
featured article in some language, or any
James,
I totally agree with Gerard and I totally disagree with you. The fact that
the English Wikipedia does not have an article on hatmaker is not
something that Wikidata should support, and the energy you are wasting with
your talk about redirects could better be spent on making a stub for
We have the relevant information on :en in hatmaking.
Why create a stub? Why require the duplication?
Surely it is for client wikis to decide how they want to treat topics,
either in a big omnibus article, or in a lot of little articles -- that
is a decision for them.
But we should be
There is one big field, where redirects make sense: lists (of
characters) or members of bands
*Rob Bourdon (Q19205) have article in 38 languages. There is also part
of article de:Linkin_Park, which is about him and [[de:Rob Bourdon]]
is redirect.
*Character X from tv series Y is not notable
I don't understand why you can't make an item for each character or each
person in a band. As long as you have a valid reference (IMDb? Book? out of
my league here) you can make an item for anything
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jan Dudík jan.du...@gmail.com wrote:
There is one big field,
You can make an *item* on Wikidata, no problem.
But if you try to make a corresponding *article* on en-wiki, people will
fold it into a list.
So it would be good for the *item* on Wikidata to point to the
*redirect* that is permitted on en-wiki.
-- James.
On 16/10/2014 12:54, Jane
Yes, biographies are a major example of where this is useful. There
are many cases where, for example,
* Wikipedia has an article covering both a company and the founder(s)
of that company
* A Wikipedia article deals with a parent + child, or siblings, who
worked in the same field
* A Wikipedia
I'll agree that in general though it's good policy to allow linking on
wikidata to redirect links. That way, if in the future someone thinks
hatmaker merits a separate article from hatmaking (although I doubt
it), the link to the wikidata item is already there. Without this
functionality we risk
While I agree with the idea of linking between languages
including links to related topics, I am a bit hesitant to use
Wikidata for it now and in the suggested fashion. Rather let us
try to find a more generalized approach which not only serves
Wikipedias but all parties interested in finding
Redirects are cheap.
On en-wiki the creation of new redirects is positively encouraged.
There is also a category on en-wiki, Redirects with possibilities for
redirects that have the potential to be built into stand-alone articles.
I would have thought the (possibly automated) creation of
Jane
I disagree.
Sitelinks to wikipedia redirects are useful because they help one wikipedia
get useful links to other wikipedias even where the structure of the
wikipedias is different, without having to force the various wikipedias to
follow the same structure.
Your comment that wikipedias
Joe,
That's actually not what I said. What I said was that we should explode all
bundled concepts on Wikipedia into items on Wikidata. I did not say that we
should do anything at all on Wikipedia. I am perfectly capable of keeping
to the point on a Wikidata mailing list, and I believe that the
I do not mind having huge numbers of redirects at all, but you must be aware
that there are wikipedias the powers of which will stubbornly and customarily
delete such redirects when you create them. So that cannot be a solutiion for
all.
Purodha
James Heald j.he...@ucl.ac.uk writes:
You
Purodha,
Redirects are cheap - so cheap in fact, that they take up more space when
you delete them, so even if they are misspelled or whatever, they are
mostly left to rot unless they break something (for example when someone
wants to use a redlink like [[redlink]] and someone else makes a
Hi Jane,
I don't think there is any Wikimedia project that actively deletes redirects.
You don't have to believe me. Just check the delete logs. There are tens of
thousands of deleted redirects. Because they were cluttering Allpages lists.
Because they were common spelling mistakes and we do
Hoi,
If there is something like a hatmaker, it can have an item even when there
is no article in the English Wikipedia about it.
When Mr Daniel Havell has no article, it still can have an item. It is up
to any Wikipedia to have an article about him or not.
It does not mean that redirects are a
Hoi,
I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is a good
thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly Wikipedia
centric and they introduce new things that do not exist.
- a redirect page to three pages is also called an disambiguation page..
We do
60 matches
Mail list logo
