Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Am 25.02.2013 23:13, schrieb Fae: On 25 February 2013 04:17, Newyorkbrad wrote: ... voting. To the extent that a given member might wish to decide his or her vote through consultation with his or her chapter -- through internal discussion and consensus or a vote of the chapter board members or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Dear Jan Bart, I think that your request would suggest a more open model... It may be that this simple and natural request needs to have the ability to rediscuss the whole organization. On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: > Hi All, > > Not to be incredibly mean about this,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On 25 February 2013 04:17, Newyorkbrad wrote: ... > voting. To the extent that a given member might wish to decide his or her > vote through consultation with his or her chapter -- through internal > discussion and consensus or a vote of the chapter board members or all the > chapter's members, on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson (improved formatting)

Hi Darek and Markus, in response to 2 seperate e-mails (once again, as this mailing list is killing the formatting). 25 lutego 2013 17:08 Markus Glaser napisał(a): > I think the point about "representing" vs. "serving" was well understood > in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a serie

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Hi Darek and Markus, in response to 2 seperate e-mails. Dnia 25 lutego 2013 17:08 Markus Glaser napisał(a): I think the point about "representing" vs. "serving" was well understood in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a series of actions that serve all the cha

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Pharos, 25/02/2013 22:10: I see your point, and I agree that proposing to modify the bylaws would not be a practical option for us now. Perhaps, though, we might come up with some "informal" processes for broader pan-chapter input before then... Like, adding feedback on Meta talk pages? :) Ne

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

I see your point, and I agree that proposing to modify the bylaws would not be a practical option for us now. Perhaps, though, we might come up with some "informal" processes for broader pan-chapter input before then... Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Fae wrote: >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Nathan, 25/02/2013 20:28: By the by, did it not occur to anyone that having members of the Association, members of the Council, and members of the Secretariat might introduce some ambiguity into what is meant by the term "members"? Yes. ;-)

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Nathan wrote: > That means the only votes belong to those on the Council; this could > be easily resolved by other chapters becoming members, as has been > said, but presumably some who have refused so far... do so because > they have to accept the "rights, duties

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

That means the only votes belong to those on the Council; this could be easily resolved by other chapters becoming members, as has been said, but presumably some who have refused so far... do so because they have to accept the "rights, duties and obligations" of a member. These include allowing the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Sorry wrong ref, easily done - I meant to paste in "The Council elects from its own Members a Chair and a Deputy Chair." (Section 3 Art 6). Fae ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

For those commenting here that they would like to see all AffCom recognized chapters voting for the Chair, please note this would take a resolution to change the charter (section B Art 3) "Each Chapter selects one Council Member, by announcement of the Chapter to the Chair of the Council." I estim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Ziko van Dijk wrote: > 2013/2/25 Nathan : >> That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the WCA is an >> activity chapters can choose to participate in, or choose not to. To >> the extent the WCA intends to "represent" its members, that >> representation sho

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Dariusz Jemielniak, 25/02/2013 16:59: On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Of course it can legitimately represent only its members, while Jan-Bart suggests to claim that it somehow represents also non-members that don't mind participating in its discussions, by pretendi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

I think the point about "representing" vs. "serving" was well understood in the London meeting. The planned outcome is a series of actions that serve all the chapters and even other entities. This will be our main focus. As I said before, when it comes to "representing", though, an opt-in model

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

2013/2/25 Nathan : > That's one way of looking at it. Another is that the WCA is an > activity chapters can choose to participate in, or choose not to. To > the extent the WCA intends to "represent" its members, that > representation should be restricted to those chapters which have > specifically

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

The opt-in model make sense to be sure that all members actually support the WCA and what can be said in the name of the WCA. But this is IMHO the problem, the WCA has been presented like a body that should represent the chapters in negociation with the WMF, but it has been received like a body

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

WM:SE opted out because they ware not comfortable with the statutes (being too far from the movement aim on openness, transparency etc) (I was not involved in this decision) After last month discussion the sentiment has gone from "wait and see" to skeptical - good we are not involved. Ie WM:SE

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: > Of course it can legitimately represent only its members, while Jan-Bart > suggests to claim that it somehow represents also non-members that don't > mind participating in its discussions, by pretending they were invited to. > just a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Am 25.02.2013 16:45, schrieb Katherine Casey: Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the "Wikimedia Chapters Association" would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent "Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q",

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

«That representation should be co-extensive with taxation, not stopping short of it, but also not going beyond it, is in accordance with the theory of British institutions.» http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/mill/john_stuart/m645r/chapter8.html Béria Lima, 25/02/2013 16:37: > Well, since the WCA

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Am 25.02.2013 16:37, schrieb Béria Lima: Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like "European Chapters Association" based on the people present in the last meeting<

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Seconding Béria here - by common sense, a group called the "Wikimedia Chapters Association" would represent the Wikimedia chapters. If it only exists to represent "Wikimedia chapters that sign on to ideas X and Y, and pledge Z, and attend meeting Q", then the name ought to be more representative of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Well, since the WCA don't plan to represent all the chapters, it would be good it changed the name to a more suitable representation of the truth (that would be something like "European Chapters Association" based on the people present in the last meeting

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Nathan wrote: > The model of voting delegates the casting of votes to members of the > council; which are individuals, chosen by chapters. Purely from a > practical perspective, it may not be possible for chapters to get > council members in order by the deadline

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: > > And I am not sure that creating a membership model within a group of approved > chapters (who have therefore already passed the AffCom test) can be described > as a "democratic model". You are creating an preferred status. You coul

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Hey Ziko No actually we did not agree on that. We agreed that there were several reasons that chapters might not join the Chapters Association. Again: i do not know all the specifics and cannot give you the arguments for the chapters that did not join, but some certainly voiced a reluctance to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bence Damokos wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Thomas Dalton > wrote: > >> On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, "James Alexander" wrote: >> > Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. >> You >> > require the new Council member t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, "James Alexander" wrote: > > Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. > You > > require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging > loyalty > > essentially? I don't see

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Thomas Dalton, 25/02/2013 10:50: On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, "James Alexander" wrote: Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would re

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On 25 February 2013 09:40, James Alexander wrote: > Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You > require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty > essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require > something like that, i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Feb 25, 2013 9:41 AM, "James Alexander" wrote: > Err ok, I'm sorry but this actually moves to the realms of scary. You > require the new Council member to send in a statement ... pledging loyalty > essentially? I don't see anything in the charter that would require > something like that, i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Fae wrote: > @Jan-Bart > One of the early discussions before agreeing the WCA charter was the > possibility of automatically counting all legally recognized chapters > as members. It was felt that this would not result in a credible > democratic process, indeed t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Jan-Bart de Vreede, 25/02/2013 02:36: So I would not dare speak for the specific chapters, but I gather some of them did not want to join simply because they did not like the membership model. Could you elaborate? I don't get the grammatical meaning of this sentence. Nemo ___

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Jan-Bart, what you call a 'membership model' is a democratically established international NGO in which members have rights and obligations. It operates under a charter accepted by the chapters that joined. Maybe you would like to read the charter first, or think about the way the WMF (!) approves

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

@Jan-Bart One of the early discussions before agreeing the WCA charter was the possibility of automatically counting all legally recognized chapters as members. It was felt that this would not result in a credible democratic process, indeed the current 21 members are not all very active in votes an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Although I'm pretty much a complete outsider to this process, and so my opinion may be discounted accordingly, this schedule for voting may be a little bit too expedited to be optimal. I'm especially concerned that only one week is allotted between the close of nominations and the close of voting.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

So I would not dare speak for the specific chapters, but I gather some of them did not want to join simply because they did not like the membership model. So it might be good to open things up the other way around :) Jan-Bart On Feb 24, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > If chapters won

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

If chapters won't to be involved, why don't they join? I don't think there is even a plan to charge membership fees yet, so what have they got to lose? On Feb 25, 2013 12:35 AM, "Jan-Bart de Vreede" wrote: > Hi All, > > Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all > ch

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Hi All, Not to be incredibly mean about this, but how about giving a vote to all chapters approved by the AffCom, rather than just the members? I know you are looking at the membership model and trying to see if it will work for you, but this sort of limits your options and perpetuates the feel

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Hi, The schedule of election for the Chapters Association Council Chair has been announced at The schedule is: Nominations open midnight (UTC) on Monday 25 February 2013. Nominations close midnight on Mon

[Wikimedia-l] Info: Election for WCA Chairperson

Hi, I have started a draft of the process for the WCA election for a Chairperson at . This is in line with the discussion at the London meeting last weekend. The election for a Chairperson is limited to vote