Re: [Wikimedia-l] Innovation

[Luis Villa]

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 2:52 AM, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> Luis I like what I read. What you can do to make it even more pleasing is
> establish better how this will benefit projects other than Wikipedia.
>
> For instance I blogged abut "red link" functionality that will easily
> enhance the quality of links and red links in most project including
> Wikipedia because it allows for providing information where there is none
> yet to bothnot readers and editors AND maintains the functionality as if
> nothing has changed.
>
> I have no idea if the WMF would consider such an idea. My impression is
> that the WMF and its agenda is very much a black box. When you explain how
> an idea like this might get attention, it is less theoretical and it
> explains me and others if innovation in the WMF has a place and what that
> place is.
>

Hi, Gerard-

Thanks for asking. I think calling us a "black box" on code/ideas from
outside WMF is pretty fair, though we're working on it.

*tl;dr:* this is and will always be hard; I'd love to hear thoughts or
examples on how we can do it better.

Note that I have not formally shared this thinking with
product/engineering, so none of this is a promise to do any specific thing
mentioned below. I share it to show, in good faith, that we're thinking
hard about the problem and what to do about it, and to make clear why it
isn't easy to solve.

*Ideas*
We can easily collect thousands of ideas. (For example, just one person
already had a list of 200+ sorted/filed bugs ready when we announced
community tech.) Sorting, prioritizing, and implementing them takes work (which
non-programmers sometimes underestimate ;) . Some
things we'd need in order to handle incoming ideas well:

   - *Overall process/timeline* for product development, so that people
   know who to talk to when and through what channels. CE is working with
   product/engineering on this, but it will always be ongoing - there won't be
   one "final" process, since we'll learn and adjust as we go.
   - *Clear priorities* - if you have 1,000 ideas, you have to have
   priorities so that you can sort through them, and decide "we'll do this one
   first because..." This is hard - there are still some people who respond to
   VE by disagreeing that we should be trying to get more new editors!
   - *A friendly space
   
understanding*
   - people often get emotional/angry when you tell them their idea is not a
   high priority, or hard to understand, etc. Dealing with that once is easy;
   dealing with it repeatedly over months or years is literally threatening to
   mental health.
   - *Bodies:* Reading and processing incoming ideas can take a *ton* of
   time from the people involved. Andre helps with this somewhat in his role
   as bugmaster, but we're asking a lot from product and engineering already,
   so there is tension between "fix core platform issues" and "innovate within
   WMF" and "listen carefully to community innovation" - there are just a
   limited number of hours in the day.

We've always done parts of this informally (ideas come in through
phabricator; I read your blog post when it was first posted via planet;
etc.) but we need to make it more formal if we want to seriously scale it.
We're in the *extremely* initial brainstorming phases of some of this right
now, which Lila referred to in her email.

*Code*
Innovative *code *should be easier to deal with than ideas, because writing
code is hard so there is less code than ideas. But you still have to be
able to deal with:

   - *Usability:* the innovative idea might be generally great, but has it
   had evaluative design research
   ? A/B
   testing of key concepts/language? Etc
   

   .?
   - *Maintainability:* will the code still work in 2-3 years? Who will
   bugfix during that time?
   - *Scalability:* will it work for hundreds of millions of users?

We address some of these currently simply by encouraging people to extend
the platform and use Labs, rather than relying on us. So one possible
option is to do more of that (like investing in APIs, as I mentioned
in my innovation
survey

).

The journey of hovercards

is
a pretty good example of the potential and difficulty of this process - we
know we can turn non-WMF code into deployed code, but it is hard (and in
that case still not done a year later).

*Serious question*
Those are my off-the-cuff, very long-term thinking about how we get
community code into the projects at scale. Gerard, Magnus, others who write
code - are there other routes I'm not seeing? 

[Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Renata St]

Hi.

So I saw this YouTube video yesterday about kids reacting to printed
encyclopedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aJ3xaDMuM&noredirect=1

It made me sad. And very fearful of the future of Wikipedia.

These kids do not appreciate knowledge and information because they grew up
with its abundance. When I was growing up (and I am only 30), printed
encyclopedia was the only research tool. These kids will never know the
frustration when you tried looking something up in those dusty volumes only
to find minimal information ("stub") or, worse yet, nothing on the topic.
And the nagging feeling it left you with because your curiosity was not
satisfied and you thirsted for more, but there was nothing else! And so
when Wikipedia came around it was this wondrous thing where information was
seemingly limitless and endless. And it was expanding at dizzying speeds.
And you could add more! It was the answer to my childhood fantasy of having
the limitless encyclopedia that answered every questions. And it filed my
heart with joy and satisfaction not unlike the joy of a child in candy
story (yes, I am a geek).

Those kids never deprived of knowledge and information will never know how
precious it is. They will not have the same love that is required to edit
Wikipedia and write quality articles. And it makes me sad.

Renata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Pete Forsyth]

Thank you for sharing this, Renata -- cool video!

But I think I'm taking the exact opposite from it. It makes me happy. It
seems to me these kids love information -- and are eager to say so! -- and
love books, too, most of them expressed sadness at the idea of books
disappearing (but also, shock at the idea that an encyclopedia would cost
$1500).

I do think you have a good point, that the absence of Wikipedia in our
early lives provided big motivation for many of us to devote energy to
creating Wikipedia. I'm not sure that spells doom for Wikipedia, though --
rather, I'd say different kinds of motivation (more specific to one's
passions and interests, rather than a general desire to build a
comprehensive compendium) will fuel the next wave of Wikipedians.

People will probably value knowledge in different ways as it becomes more
abundant and less centralized, but I have a hard time believing they will
*cease* to value knowledge.

Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Renata St  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> So I saw this YouTube video yesterday about kids reacting to printed
> encyclopedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aJ3xaDMuM&noredirect=1
>
> It made me sad. And very fearful of the future of Wikipedia.
>
> These kids do not appreciate knowledge and information because they grew up
> with its abundance. When I was growing up (and I am only 30), printed
> encyclopedia was the only research tool. These kids will never know the
> frustration when you tried looking something up in those dusty volumes only
> to find minimal information ("stub") or, worse yet, nothing on the topic.
> And the nagging feeling it left you with because your curiosity was not
> satisfied and you thirsted for more, but there was nothing else! And so
> when Wikipedia came around it was this wondrous thing where information was
> seemingly limitless and endless. And it was expanding at dizzying speeds.
> And you could add more! It was the answer to my childhood fantasy of having
> the limitless encyclopedia that answered every questions. And it filed my
> heart with joy and satisfaction not unlike the joy of a child in candy
> story (yes, I am a geek).
>
> Those kids never deprived of knowledge and information will never know how
> precious it is. They will not have the same love that is required to edit
> Wikipedia and write quality articles. And it makes me sad.
>
> Renata
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> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Amy Vossbrinck]

Hi Renata:

Please don't despair.  When I was "growing up" (I'm pushing 69) there were
definitely encyclopedias but they surely were not the *only research tools*.
Information was available, you just had to really dig for it - go to the
library, comb through the card catalogue, go into the stacks, find the
books, gather the information you needed, write it out by hand on paper
(there were no copiers), and note the source for the information on the set
of 3 x 5 index cards that you collected for the research project; or have
the research librarian retrieve the newspapers, or periodicals, or white
papers or mirco film and repeat what you did with the books; write it out
by hand on paper (again, no copiers), and note the source for the
information on the set of 3 x 5 index cards that you collected for the
research project.

Then you took all the information home, hand wrote the paper and once you
were happy with it, you typed it out on a manual typewriter, making sure
that you spaced it so that there would be enough room at the bottom for the
footnotes for each particular page.

If you had to make more than one copy, you put carbon paper in between the
sheets of paper and if you made a mistake, you carefully corrected every
page, making sure not to smudge the carbon or allow the papers and the
carbon to shift out of alignment.

If you needed more than 4 copies you typed the paper on a mimeograph
stencil.  If you made a mistake on the stencil, you used a mat knife and
carefully scraped the error off the back of the top sheet, cut a corner off
the stencil at the bottom and inserted that in the space between the top
sheet and the stencil back and typed the letter(s) again, making sure that
you did not accidentally let the top sheet or the stencil slip in the
typewriter roller, because if you did all of your alignment would be off
for the rest of the paper. There was a fluid to correct errors, but it
never worked very well. When the paper was done, you put the stencil on a
mimeograph machine and cranked it by hand until the stencil impression was
no longer deep enough to make copies.  If you needed more copies, you had
to cut another stencil by re-typing the entire paper.

I know this probably sounds like "I had to hike 20 miles to school with
snow up to my waist" - which I didn't -  but I offer it only to say that we
humans are a pretty persistent and creative bunch and when determined
enough we can make things work.  Sometimes, having to really dig for
something makes it all that much more precious.

Take care, Amy

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Renata St  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> So I saw this YouTube video yesterday about kids reacting to printed
> encyclopedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aJ3xaDMuM&noredirect=1
>
> It made me sad. And very fearful of the future of Wikipedia.
>
> These kids do not appreciate knowledge and information because they grew up
> with its abundance. When I was growing up (and I am only 30), printed
> encyclopedia was the only research tool. These kids will never know the
> frustration when you tried looking something up in those dusty volumes only
> to find minimal information ("stub") or, worse yet, nothing on the topic.
> And the nagging feeling it left you with because your curiosity was not
> satisfied and you thirsted for more, but there was nothing else! And so
> when Wikipedia came around it was this wondrous thing where information was
> seemingly limitless and endless. And it was expanding at dizzying speeds.
> And you could add more! It was the answer to my childhood fantasy of having
> the limitless encyclopedia that answered every questions. And it filed my
> heart with joy and satisfaction not unlike the joy of a child in candy
> story (yes, I am a geek).
>
> Those kids never deprived of knowledge and information will never know how
> precious it is. They will not have the same love that is required to edit
> Wikipedia and write quality articles. And it makes me sad.
>
> Renata
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> 




-- 
*Amy Vossbrinck*
*Executive Assistant to the*
*Chief of Finance and Administration, Garfield Byrd*
*Wikimedia Foundation*
*149 New Montgomery Street*
*San Francisco, CA 94105*
*415.839.6885  ext 6628*
*avossbri...@wikimedia.org *
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[geni]

On 14 July 2015 at 21:22, Renata St  wrote:

> Hi.
>
> So I saw this YouTube video yesterday about kids reacting to printed
> encyclopedia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7aJ3xaDMuM&noredirect=1
>
> It made me sad. And very fearful of the future of Wikipedia.
>
> These kids do not appreciate knowledge and information because they grew up
> with its abundance. When I was growing up (and I am only 30), printed
> encyclopedia was the only research tool.



You would have been 8 years old when Encarta was launched.



> Those kids never deprived of knowledge and information will never know how
> precious it is.


Eh you always hit walls sooner or later. A lot of information is still
buried in libraries (the best soruce I'm aware of for theThe jewelry of
roman Britain is a book written in 1996). Other stuff is behind paywalls or
is commercially sensitive. Or simply doesn't exist (there doesn't seem to
be a solid history of calshot castle anywhere).



> They will not have the same love that is required to edit
> Wikipedia and write quality articles. And it makes me sad.
>

I think there will be other motivations.


-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Find Community Engagement sessions at Wikimania 2015!

[Maria Cruz]

Hi all,
a few more sessions that were missed in the last email:

*Wednesday (hackathon):*
* *Education Program Extension Hackathon.*
* Workplace 2, Don Genaro, 1 pm.
Hosted by Sage Ross.*

*Friday*
* Pitfalls, protocols and prior planning: A panel on making the most of
Education Program.
*
16:30 - 17 hs. Panel hosted by Anna Koval. *This session will help
Wikimedians, educators, those who are already running Wikipedia Education
Programs, and those who are already using the Wikimedia projects in
educational settings, as well as those who are curious about it. This
session will present successful models, pitfalls, and protocols that will
help everyone make the most of their education program.

*Saturday*
* *Communicating your projects: Wikipedia Education program as an example.

16 - 16:30 hs. Tutorial hosted by Samir Elsharbaty.* Many wikimedians come
to great ideas, plan and implement them in a great way but no one else
hears about, other than those involved in the activity. This tutorial will
try to cover how event organizers can reach out to bigger (and the right)
audience, among other things.


Cheers!



*María Cruz * \\   Communications and Outreach Coordinator, L&E Team
\\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
mc...@wikimedia.org  |  :  @marianarra_ 

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 4:59 PM, Maria Cruz  wrote:

> Hi all!
> As Wikimanía México is just around the corner, I wanted to share with you
> all an overview of sessions hosted by Community Engagement department at
> WMF.
>
> There are hacks, workshops, panels, presentations and discussions covering
> a range of topics! We will be happy to have you join us in them =)
>
> I hope this breakdown is clear and not too confusing.
>
> *Thursday (Hackathon)*
> * *Visual Editor Translathon.
>  16 hs, Workplace 1 (Don
> Américo). Hosted by Erica Litrenta and Benoît Evellin. *
>
> *Friday*
> * *Engaging Wikipedia's Natural Ally: How to unlock and amplify the
> access, knowledge, skills and resources of University and Research
> Libraries.
> 
>  11:30
> - 12 hs. Presentation and discussion hosted by Alex Stinson.* The
> presentation will focus on experimental Wikipedia Library programs and
> tools growing out of these conversations that are focused on university and
> other research libraries. The discussion will seek to answer: How effective
> are our reference materials for our readers? Can readers really leverage
> higher quality scholarly references to help further their research?
>
> * *It's (Not) all about the money: The Funds Dissemination Committee
> Unveiled.
> 
> 17 - 17:30 hs. Presentation with panel, hosted by Matanya Moses (FDC
> member) & Katy Love (FDC staff member) & Dariusz Jemielniak (FDC member). * 
> Come
> meet this unique group of community members, understand their process and
> learn about how they make decisions. Hear their reflections on the past
> year overseeing the Annual Plan Grants.
>
> *Saturday*
> * *Engaging with Community Engagement.
> 
> 9 - 10 hs. Panel hosted by Luis Villa.* Come meet some of the key members
> of this new team and ask them questions about the new group and where it is
> headed.
>
> * *IdeLab workshop: Making ideas into action.
> 11
> - 12:30 hs. Workshop hosted by Siko Bouterse, Jonathan Morgan and Marti
> Johnson. * Have an idea for a project to improve Wikimedia? Want feedback
> or help obtaining funding to turn your idea into action? Bring your ideas
> and  and let’s turn ideas into actionable projects together!
>
> * *GLAM Learning Circle.
> 
> 14 - 15:30 hs. Panel Hosted by Jaime Anstee and María Cruz.* A follow-up
> to learning circles facilitated at GLAM Wiki Conference in the Hague and
> next step in the learning journey to capture best practices and lessons
> learned in GLAM-wiki partnering.
>
> * *Free as in Free: Strategies for advancing open access on Wikipedia.
> 
> 15 - 15:30 hs. Panel presentation and discussion hosted by 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Renata St]

>
> > These kids do not appreciate knowledge and information because they grew
> up
> > with its abundance. When I was growing up (and I am only 30), printed
> > encyclopedia was the only research tool.
>
> You would have been 8 years old when Encarta was launched.


I am from a small non-English speaking country. There was lack of even
general books on topics because on how small the population (3.5 million).
I remember I had to do a long research paper on India (history, geography,
culture, religion, etc.). You would think easy - India is a big,
interesting country. Surely there must be books on it. Not so much...
Unless you wanted to read someone's travel impressions from 30 years ago
for 300 pages. Finding the info was the biggest struggle. And so we had
this 12-volume encyclopedia. And it was was like the crown jewel of our
possessions. My mom forbade me to mark anything (even with a pencil) at all
on the pages.


> Those kids never deprived of knowledge and information will never know how
> > precious it is.
>
> Eh you always hit walls sooner or later. A lot of information is still
> buried in libraries (the best soruce I'm aware of for theThe jewelry of
> roman Britain is a book written in 1996). Other stuff is behind paywalls or
> is commercially sensitive. Or simply doesn't exist (there doesn't seem to
> be a solid history of calshot castle anywhere).
>

You are talking about niche, specialized topics graduate students might
care. Yes, there is still a lot of info locked in the dead-tree world, but
anything that an average high school kid might need is in overabundance on
the Internet (Wikipedia included). In fact, I am becoming convinced that
for this new generation filtering the info from the flood out there will be
a lot more valuable skill than finding info.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Renata St]

>
> I know this probably sounds like "I had to hike 20 miles to school with
> snow up to my waist" - which I didn't -  but I offer it only to say that we
> humans are a pretty persistent and creative bunch and when determined
> enough we can make things work.  Sometimes, having to really dig for
> something makes it all that much more precious.
>

That is my point exactly. The kids these days don't struggle like that -
type in google, hit enter, and boom! No digging required. Served on a
silver platter. And you don't develop appreciation for something you don't
struggle for.

No struggle = no appreciation = no labor of love creating it for others.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Pine W]

I agree that finding correct, accurate, current, and NPOV information can
be a challenging task, and media literacy is an important skill these days.
Good research tasks today go beyond the goal of finding just any book,
magazine, journal or webpage that asserts a certain fact.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Future of Wikipedia

[Keegan Peterzell]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> Thank you for sharing this, Renata -- cool video!
>
> But I think I'm taking the exact opposite from it. It makes me happy. It
> seems to me these kids love information -- and are eager to say so! -- and
> love books, too, most of them expressed sadness at the idea of books
> disappearing (but also, shock at the idea that an encyclopedia would cost
> $1500).
>
> I do think you have a good point, that the absence of Wikipedia in our
> early lives provided big motivation for many of us to devote energy to
> creating Wikipedia. I'm not sure that spells doom for Wikipedia, though --
> rather, I'd say different kinds of motivation (more specific to one's
> passions and interests, rather than a general desire to build a
> comprehensive compendium) will fuel the next wave of Wikipedians.
>
> People will probably value knowledge in different ways as it becomes more
> abundant and less centralized, but I have a hard time believing they will
> *cease* to value knowledge.
>
> Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>
>
​+1​


-- 
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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