Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

Well, what we could do just as well is trying to load normally, but when it
fails immediately load through Orbot. The delays should be minimal most of
the time, and the crucial part is that
a) users don't have to do anything, install other apps, change the settings
- it just works,
b) users won't be held responsible for downloading a special app or making
a choice to use Tor.

Dj

On Nov 24, 2017 18:38, "Tilman Bayer"  wrote:

> I think this is unlikely to happen, because of the performance degradation
> (access via Tor will always be slower, which user studies
>  have shown to be a
> significant usability issue in the past). But as an option or fallback or
> separate app it might be a great idea; there is a Phabricator task at
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163747
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
> wrote:
>
>> Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
>> use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
>> as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
>> but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
>> choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
>> transparent for users.
>>
>> I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least
>> we
>> can evaluate this approach as a possibility.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Cristian Consonni 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Some months ago, the idea of setting up an onion service for Wikimedia
>> > projects was discussed on this list[1] and as a proposal in IdeaLab on
>> > Meta[2].
>> >
>> > Today, Alec Muffett announced on Twitter[3] that he created «as an
>> > experiment» a series of read-only mirrors of all the Wikimedia projects.
>> > He will be running them for some time.
>> >
>> > The service is reachable with a Tor-enabled browser at the following
>> > address:
>> > https://www.qgssno7jk2xcr2sj.onion/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If you want to try out the service, first visit the addresses listed in
>> > this page and add exceptions for the SSL certificates:
>> > https://gist.github.com/alecmuffett/3da587fde6aef90ba3e49e8858fafdae
>> >
>> > (this is one of the limits of having a non-official service)
>> >
>> > Alec Muffett is the author of the Enterprise Onion Toolkit (EOTK)[4], a
>> > FLOSS project which "does for Onions what LetsEncrypt does for SSL",
>> > that is providing a simple way to transform websites in Onion services
>> > (which are accessible only and contained within the Tor network). Alec
>> > used EOTK for creating this demo. He was also behind the onion service
>> > for Facebook[5].
>> >
>> > IMO this service, even with its current limitations, is quite awesome
>> > and I am very happy to see it. It is exactly the kind of proof of
>> > concept that I wanted to create with my proposal. So now there's that.
>> >
>> > Enjoy!
>> >
>> > Cristian
>> >
>> > [1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-
>> > June/087708.html
>> > [2]:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
>> > Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
>> > [3]:https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/933739816038076419
>> > [4]: https://github.com/alecmuffett/eotk
>> > [5]:
>> > https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/
>> > 10/facebook-offers-hidden-service-to-tor-users/
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>>  prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
>> kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
>> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
>> http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl  
>>
>> associate faculty w Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society,
>> Harvard University
>> *Ostatnie artykuły:*
>>
>>- Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of
>>Quality of Information on Wikipedias
>>
>> *Journal
>>of the Association for Information Science and Technology* 68:  10.
>> 2460–2470.
>>- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits
>>of A-Hierarchical Organization
>>
>> *Journal
>>of Organizational

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Then, if it's not a too big maintance burden, what about proposing both 
solution?


Our users already pay extremely huge loading time for some feature like 
visual editing, but the far faster wikitext editor is still there for 
those who are happier with that.



Le 24/11/2017 à 19:37, Tilman Bayer a écrit :

I think this is unlikely to happen, because of the performance degradation
(access via Tor will always be slower, which user studies
 have shown to be a significant
usability issue in the past). But as an option or fallback or separate app
it might be a great idea; there is a Phabricator task at
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163747

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:


Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
transparent for users.

I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least we
can evaluate this approach as a possibility.

best,

Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:


Hi all,

Some months ago, the idea of setting up an onion service for Wikimedia
projects was discussed on this list[1] and as a proposal in IdeaLab on
Meta[2].

Today, Alec Muffett announced on Twitter[3] that he created «as an
experiment» a series of read-only mirrors of all the Wikimedia projects.
He will be running them for some time.

The service is reachable with a Tor-enabled browser at the following
address:
https://www.qgssno7jk2xcr2sj.onion/
































If you want to try out the service, first visit the addresses listed in
this page and add exceptions for the SSL certificates:
https://gist.github.com/alecmuffett/3da587fde6aef90ba3e49e8858fafdae

(this is one of the limits of having a non-official service)

Alec Muffett is the author of the Enterprise Onion Toolkit (EOTK)[4], a
FLOSS project which "does for Onions what LetsEncrypt does for SSL",
that is providing a simple way to transform websites in Onion services
(which are accessible only and contained within the Tor network). Alec
used EOTK for creating this demo. He was also behind the onion service
for Facebook[5].

IMO this service, even with its current limitations, is quite awesome
and I am very happy to see it. It is exactly the kind of proof of
concept that I wanted to create with my proposal. So now there's that.

Enjoy!

Cristian

[1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-
June/087708.html
[2]:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
[3]:https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/933739816038076419
[4]: https://github.com/alecmuffett/eotk
[5]:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/
10/facebook-offers-hidden-service-to-tor-users/

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--

 prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl  

associate faculty w Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society,
Harvard University
*Ostatnie artykuły:*

- Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of
Quality of Information on Wikipedias

*Journal
of the Association for Information Science and Technology* 68:  10.
 2460–2470.
- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits
of A-Hierarchical Organization

*Journal
of Organizational Change Management *29:  3.  361-378.
- Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between
Wikipedia and Academia
 *Journal of the
Association for Information Science and Technology* 67:  7.  1773-1776.
- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on Wikipedia
 *Feminist
Review *113:  1.  103-108.
- Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)
Inequalities
in Open Source Software Development: Analysis of Contributor’s Commits
in
Apa

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett

[Tilman Bayer]

I think this is unlikely to happen, because of the performance degradation
(access via Tor will always be slower, which user studies
 have shown to be a significant
usability issue in the past). But as an option or fallback or separate app
it might be a great idea; there is a Phabricator task at
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163747

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak 
wrote:

> Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
> use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
> as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
> but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
> choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
> transparent for users.
>
> I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least we
> can evaluate this approach as a possibility.
>
> best,
>
> Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Cristian Consonni 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some months ago, the idea of setting up an onion service for Wikimedia
> > projects was discussed on this list[1] and as a proposal in IdeaLab on
> > Meta[2].
> >
> > Today, Alec Muffett announced on Twitter[3] that he created «as an
> > experiment» a series of read-only mirrors of all the Wikimedia projects.
> > He will be running them for some time.
> >
> > The service is reachable with a Tor-enabled browser at the following
> > address:
> > https://www.qgssno7jk2xcr2sj.onion/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to try out the service, first visit the addresses listed in
> > this page and add exceptions for the SSL certificates:
> > https://gist.github.com/alecmuffett/3da587fde6aef90ba3e49e8858fafdae
> >
> > (this is one of the limits of having a non-official service)
> >
> > Alec Muffett is the author of the Enterprise Onion Toolkit (EOTK)[4], a
> > FLOSS project which "does for Onions what LetsEncrypt does for SSL",
> > that is providing a simple way to transform websites in Onion services
> > (which are accessible only and contained within the Tor network). Alec
> > used EOTK for creating this demo. He was also behind the onion service
> > for Facebook[5].
> >
> > IMO this service, even with its current limitations, is quite awesome
> > and I am very happy to see it. It is exactly the kind of proof of
> > concept that I wanted to create with my proposal. So now there's that.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> > [1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-
> > June/087708.html
> > [2]:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> > [3]:https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/933739816038076419
> > [4]: https://github.com/alecmuffett/eotk
> > [5]:
> > https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/
> > 10/facebook-offers-hidden-service-to-tor-users/
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
>  prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl  
>
> associate faculty w Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society,
> Harvard University
> *Ostatnie artykuły:*
>
>- Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of
>Quality of Information on Wikipedias
>
> *Journal
>of the Association for Information Science and Technology* 68:  10.
> 2460–2470.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits
>of A-Hierarchical Organization
>
> *Journal
>of Organizational Change Management *29:  3.  361-378.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between
>Wikipedia and Academia
> *Journal of the
>Association for Information Science and Technology* 67:  7.  1773-1776.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on Wikipedia
> *Feminist
>Review *113:  1.  103-108.
>- Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)
> Inequalities
>in Open Source Softwar

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all

[Yury Bulka]

Great to hear!

I have one caveat with it though - if I understand it correctly, it is
currently in a man-in-the-middle position between the visitor and WMF,
as it provides its own self-signed https certificate and performs
various URL rewriting on the traffic to change the URLs to the onion
domain.

Isn't it more secure, then, to just use Tor to access the main
(clearnet) Wikipedia, since it enforces correct HTTPS?

Using Tor <-> clearnet WMF (HTTPS) still provides:
1) censorship circumvention;
2) location anonymity;
3) opaque encryption between the visitor and the WMF;

The #3 is missing if the onion service is not operated by the WMF
itself.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I do think it's very good that such effort is taking place - but we need
to make sure there's no weak points security-wise that aren't
communicated prominently enough to the users.

Best,
Yury.

wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org writes:
> Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 09:35:24 +0100
> From: Dariusz Jemielniak 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all
>   Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
> use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
> as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
> but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
> choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
> transparent for users.
>
> I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least we
> can evaluate this approach as a possibility.
>
> best,
>
> Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Legal status of Wikimeida lists [Was: Re: The other side of the crisis at WMFR]

[Tim Landscheidt]

mathieu stumpf guntz  wrote:

>> I think it was important to re-explain all those points so
>> that the community, which is - again - unnecessarily taken
>> as witness, is not deceived by a scenario built from
>> scratch.
>> Again, to discredit the movement by such erroneous but
>> public accusations still shows that only personal
>> interests and vainness matter in this conflict with some
>> people.

> I seize the opportunity to ask: what is the legal status of
> the list? Is it considered public?

> I mean, it's easy to subscribe for anyone, but you still
> have to subscribe. And as far as I know, accessing archives
> require to login. Now there are other website which make
> crawled archives publicly accessible, but just because some
> do that doesn't mean it's legal.

> […]

Accessing the archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/ does not
require logging in (and AFAIR never has), but even if it
did, for all practical (legal) purposes this mailing list is
a public venue, if only because anybody can subscribe to it,
thus not limiting the audience in any meaningful way.

Tim


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Legal status of Wikimeida lists [Was: Re: The other side of the crisis at WMFR]

[Vi to]

Archives are public, so, IMHO, the list is.

Vito

2017-11-24 11:11 GMT+01:00 mathieu stumpf guntz <
psychosl...@culture-libre.org>:

> Saluton ĉiuj,
>
> Le 23/11/2017 à 20:54, Emeric Vallespi a écrit :
>
>> I think it was important to re-explain all those points so that the
>> community, which is - again - unnecessarily taken as witness, is not
>> deceived by a scenario built from scratch.
>> Again, to discredit the movement by such erroneous but public accusations
>> still shows that only personal interests and vainness matter in this
>> conflict with some people.
>>
>> I seize the opportunity to ask: what is the legal status of the list? Is
> it considered public?
>
> I mean, it's easy to subscribe for anyone, but you still have to
> subscribe. And as far as I know, accessing archives require to login. Now
> there are other website which make crawled archives publicly accessible,
> but just because some do that doesn't mean it's legal.
>
> Also I'm not aware of any license regarding posted emails, so plain
> copyright probably apply, minus any exception related to epistolary
> material that might exist.
>
> It might be interesting to make any post to our mailing list a free
> licensed material. I've been thinking about that as I had the idea to
> extensively analyse the wikidata-l mailling list and publish a side by side
> statements and extracted keywords elements, but from a legal point of view
> it is probably not feasible. That might be circumvented with links, or
> providing a software which generate the expected table from provided
> references, but anyway it's less practical than a straight published table.
> Having this material published under a free license would make it far more
> useful in any kind of study with such an extensive goal in its publication.
>
> Now, switching to a free license would not make the change retroactive,
> but it would already cover new material. Also it should be possible to
> contact most posters through their email and ask permission to release
> their previous publications under one or more free licenses and change
> archive metadata accordingly.
>
> Legale,
> mathieu
> ___
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> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Saluton Samuel kaj ĉiuj,

Le 23/11/2017 à 22:39, Samuel Klein a écrit :

On Nov 23, 2017 2:55 PM, "Emeric Vallespi" 
wrote:



the Wikimedia community protect itself and its members by harassing and
defaming people who question
Please don't turn it to a inaccurate "us versus them" representation. 
Sure there are people in our community that misbehaves in reaction to a 
feeling of aggression. But condemning the whole community for also 
including this kind of behaviour is not constructive. We also have 
people who try, not vehemently, to listen to each party, bring 
compassion, and try to help solving conflicts through dialogue as far as 
possible.


Of course our community is not perfect, we are human, and nothing 
characterize better human beings than erroneous behaviours. But as far 
as I know, we don't promote harassment, or any form of violence, as an 
acceptable solution to problems we face.

I cannot imagine why anyone would attempt to defame you, when they cannot
hope to surpass the eloquence and thoroughness of your own writing.
Well, they are situation where having more reasonable arguments are not 
enough to meet prevalence in decisions. Typically when different 
decision can be imposed by force. That may be physical violence, 
psychological abuse, hierarchical authoritarian misconduct, and so on.


People are not always reacting with violent means because they are 
inherently wired to such a behaviour as first reaction. Often they will 
act like that as a last resort because they themselves feel assaulted 
and see no other mean to react.


I think it would be healthy to redact pattern/anti-pattern for that kind 
of problematic and extensively promote them. Currently we don't have 
much material pertaining harassment in our pattern library 
.


Distingeble,
mathieu



—Sam.
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[Wikimedia-l] Legal status of Wikimeida lists [Was: Re: The other side of the crisis at WMFR]

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Saluton ĉiuj,

Le 23/11/2017 à 20:54, Emeric Vallespi a écrit :

I think it was important to re-explain all those points so that the community, 
which is - again - unnecessarily taken as witness, is not deceived by a 
scenario built from scratch.
Again, to discredit the movement by such erroneous but public accusations still 
shows that only personal interests and vainness matter in this conflict with 
some people.

I seize the opportunity to ask: what is the legal status of the list? Is 
it considered public?


I mean, it's easy to subscribe for anyone, but you still have to 
subscribe. And as far as I know, accessing archives require to login. 
Now there are other website which make crawled archives publicly 
accessible, but just because some do that doesn't mean it's legal.


Also I'm not aware of any license regarding posted emails, so plain 
copyright probably apply, minus any exception related to epistolary 
material that might exist.


It might be interesting to make any post to our mailing list a free 
licensed material. I've been thinking about that as I had the idea to 
extensively analyse the wikidata-l mailling list and publish a side by 
side statements and extracted keywords elements, but from a legal point 
of view it is probably not feasible. That might be circumvented with 
links, or providing a software which generate the expected table from 
provided references, but anyway it's less practical than a straight 
published table. Having this material published under a free license 
would make it far more useful in any kind of study with such an 
extensive goal in its publication.


Now, switching to a free license would not make the change retroactive, 
but it would already cover new material. Also it should be possible to 
contact most posters through their email and ask permission to release 
their previous publications under one or more free licenses and change 
archive metadata accordingly.


Legale,
mathieu
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] non-technical community wish: Invitational essay authorship contest

[James Salsman]

Hi Mathieu,

I was heartened to read your questions and conclusions:

> If you take that into consideration, how might you even begin to consider
> that there are any consensual ordering possible? ...
> you can not provide a well-order[ing.]

Referring to why I want to offer eligibility in the essay contest to
the top half of student editors, I agree with you that any assessment
of overall student rank from any set of metrics will not be a scalar
value, but a confidence interval or a central tendency and variance.
Therefore, since my actual intent was to offer eligibility to the top
35%, I nominally offer it to the top 50%.

The present value of outcomes is not always equal to nominal values,
e.g. in societies which could die of preventable communicable diseases
arising among the poor and thus would all be better off if the rich
are taxed to pay for the healthcare of the poor -- thereby increasing
the actual wealth of everyone including those whose nominal wealth
decreases -- but the proportion of optimal transfer incidence relative
to the expected amount of charity and philanthropy is another matter
for a future essay proposal.

> what if "the best" essay writer in the pool you are targeting will be on the 
> contrary repelled by such a contest?

That is a risk well worth taking.

> I'm not against fostering the idea of writing orignal essays around and within
> the Wikimedia movement
> maybe a dedicated project for essays might make some sense.

I am only proposing a periodic contest, to be archived e.g. on Meta. I
look forward to further engagement from the foundations. Back when I
was the only one arguing for market rate Foundation staff salaries,
some of the most fervent opponents were in the Foundation. It is not
uncommon to see people voting against their own interests
occasionally. It's quite common in some parts of the U.S. Thank
goodness the foundations have a higher grade of thinkers.

Best regards,
Jim


On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 1:57 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz
 wrote:
> Saluton,
>
> To my mind, this whole discussion doesn't make any sense as it is all
> grounded on suspect hypotheses.
>
> First, what do you call an essay? I think that for such a work the author
> must instill selfness in it. As say Montaigne "c’eſt moy que ie peins". If
> you take that into consideration, how might you even begin to consider that
> there are any consensual ordering possible? Actually, a "commissioned essay"
> sounds more like an oxymoron than anything else.
>
> Concerning the proposed subject, I would advise any person considering
> answering such a tricksy question to first question its premises. You might
> even explore the strict opposite question: can any institution ever give
> enough to a person for all the time dedicated into integrating its
> expectations? All this time that nothing will ever give back, and not spent
> in other life experiences that the said institution might not care about but
> that would be far more enjoyable.
>
> So, to answer the last question, that's not simply your dichotomy which is
> false, it's the whole underlying premise set your are pushing that is total
> nonsense. No, you can not provide a well-order relation on any set for any
> property.
>
> Moreover you seems to think that it suffices to drop money to achieve
> attracting "the best possible essay" in the scope of your nonsense contest.
> But what if "the best" essay writer in the pool you are targeting will be on
> the contrary repelled by such a contest?
>
> Now, I'm not against fostering the idea of writing orignal essays around and
> within the Wikimedia movement. Currently, I don't think we have a clear
> dedicated project for that, although I come across some of them which are
> usually stored on Meta, in user namespaces, or on Wikibooks (for example A
> Lecture on the Limits of Human Knowledge). So maybe a dedicated project for
> essays might make some sense.
>
> Eseete,
> mathieu
>
> Le 22/11/2017 à 19:05, James Salsman a écrit :
>
> Thanks, Lucas. I am happy to discuss the idea.
>
> I believe that there is strong evidence against the proposition that
> the best editors are skilled in writing articles but not essays.
>
> LiAnna and Tighe, do you have any reasons to believe that editors
> skilled in composing both articles and essays are not superior to
> editors skilled in articles only? Is there a false dichotomy in
> believing that one or the other could be preferable to both?
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Lucas Teles  wrote:
>
> Maybe you should first discuss any contest like this with community and
> then come with a suitable idea.
>
> Your willingness to invest on this is something valuable and should be used
> on a project that fits with WMF goals.
>
> Teles
>
> Em ter, 21 de nov de 2017 às 14:19, Tighe Flanagan 
> escreveu:
>
> To echo LiAnna and Wiki Education's take, the Wikimedia Foundation's
> education team support activities that get students to contribute to
> Wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett

[Samuel Klein]

Seconded -- this is an excellent use of Orbot. Worth testing that
experience to see if it could be a comfortable default.

On Nov 24, 2017 3:36 AM, "Dariusz Jemielniak"  wrote:

> Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
> use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
> as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
> but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
> choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
> transparent for users.
>
> I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least we
> can evaluate this approach as a possibility.
>
> best,
>
> Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Cristian Consonni 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some months ago, the idea of setting up an onion service for Wikimedia
> > projects was discussed on this list[1] and as a proposal in IdeaLab on
> > Meta[2].
> >
> > Today, Alec Muffett announced on Twitter[3] that he created «as an
> > experiment» a series of read-only mirrors of all the Wikimedia projects.
> > He will be running them for some time.
> >
> > The service is reachable with a Tor-enabled browser at the following
> > address:
> > https://www.qgssno7jk2xcr2sj.onion/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to try out the service, first visit the addresses listed in
> > this page and add exceptions for the SSL certificates:
> > https://gist.github.com/alecmuffett/3da587fde6aef90ba3e49e8858fafdae
> >
> > (this is one of the limits of having a non-official service)
> >
> > Alec Muffett is the author of the Enterprise Onion Toolkit (EOTK)[4], a
> > FLOSS project which "does for Onions what LetsEncrypt does for SSL",
> > that is providing a simple way to transform websites in Onion services
> > (which are accessible only and contained within the Tor network). Alec
> > used EOTK for creating this demo. He was also behind the onion service
> > for Facebook[5].
> >
> > IMO this service, even with its current limitations, is quite awesome
> > and I am very happy to see it. It is exactly the kind of proof of
> > concept that I wanted to create with my proposal. So now there's that.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > Cristian
> >
> > [1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-
> > June/087708.html
> > [2]:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> > Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> > [3]:https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/933739816038076419
> > [4]: https://github.com/alecmuffett/eotk
> > [5]:
> > https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/
> > 10/facebook-offers-hidden-service-to-tor-users/
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> 
>  prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl  
>
> associate faculty w Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society,
> Harvard University
> *Ostatnie artykuły:*
>
>- Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of
>Quality of Information on Wikipedias
>
> *Journal
>of the Association for Information Science and Technology* 68:  10.
> 2460–2470.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits
>of A-Hierarchical Organization
>
> *Journal
>of Organizational Change Management *29:  3.  361-378.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between
>Wikipedia and Academia
> *Journal of the
>Association for Information Science and Technology* 67:  7.  1773-1776.
>- Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on Wikipedia
> *Feminist
>Review *113:  1.  103-108.
>- Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)
> Inequalities
>in Open Source Software Development: Analysis of Contributor’s Commits
> in
>Apache Software Foundation Projects
> 1371%2Fjournal.pone.0152976.PDF>
>, *PLoS ONE* 11:  4.  e0152976.
> __

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Experimental onion service for all Wikimedia projects set up by Alec Muffett

[Dariusz Jemielniak]

Excellent! Still, as I argued before, I believe that a solution we could
use is defaulting to Tor channeling in our mobile app. Facebook offers it
as an option in partnership with Orbot - I believe we should do the same,
but default to it (so that people cannot be held responsible for making a
choice). For unlogged Wikipedia reading this solution is practically
transparent for users.

I've recently contacted the WMF with Orbot people and hope that at least we
can evaluate this approach as a possibility.

best,

Dariusz Jemielniak "pundit"



On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:11 AM, Cristian Consonni 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Some months ago, the idea of setting up an onion service for Wikimedia
> projects was discussed on this list[1] and as a proposal in IdeaLab on
> Meta[2].
>
> Today, Alec Muffett announced on Twitter[3] that he created «as an
> experiment» a series of read-only mirrors of all the Wikimedia projects.
> He will be running them for some time.
>
> The service is reachable with a Tor-enabled browser at the following
> address:
> https://www.qgssno7jk2xcr2sj.onion/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If you want to try out the service, first visit the addresses listed in
> this page and add exceptions for the SSL certificates:
> https://gist.github.com/alecmuffett/3da587fde6aef90ba3e49e8858fafdae
>
> (this is one of the limits of having a non-official service)
>
> Alec Muffett is the author of the Enterprise Onion Toolkit (EOTK)[4], a
> FLOSS project which "does for Onions what LetsEncrypt does for SSL",
> that is providing a simple way to transform websites in Onion services
> (which are accessible only and contained within the Tor network). Alec
> used EOTK for creating this demo. He was also behind the onion service
> for Facebook[5].
>
> IMO this service, even with its current limitations, is quite awesome
> and I am very happy to see it. It is exactly the kind of proof of
> concept that I wanted to create with my proposal. So now there's that.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Cristian
>
> [1]: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-
> June/087708.html
> [2]:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/A_Tor_
> Onion_Service_for_Wikipedia
> [3]:https://twitter.com/AlecMuffett/status/933739816038076419
> [4]: https://github.com/alecmuffett/eotk
> [5]:
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/
> 10/facebook-offers-hidden-service-to-tor-users/
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 

 prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl  

associate faculty w Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society,
Harvard University
*Ostatnie artykuły:*

   - Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity of
   Quality of Information on Wikipedias
   
*Journal
   of the Association for Information Science and Technology* 68:  10.
2460–2470.
   - Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The Limits
   of A-Hierarchical Organization
    *Journal
   of Organizational Change Management *29:  3.  361-378.
   - Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between
   Wikipedia and Academia
    *Journal of the
   Association for Information Science and Technology* 67:  7.  1773-1776.
   - Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on Wikipedia
    *Feminist
   Review *113:  1.  103-108.
   - Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Inequalities
   in Open Source Software Development: Analysis of Contributor’s Commits in
   Apache Software Foundation Projects
   

   , *PLoS ONE* 11:  4.  e0152976.
___
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