Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Matt Liotta
Looks like Wiltell is close to you. We have a wholesale agreement with 
them as well.


-Matt

Blair Davis wrote:


Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

Matt Liotta wrote:


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
get principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in 
my area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

 


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Matt Liotta
I wouldn't consider myself a fan of XO and we don't buy lines from them. 
We only buy PRIs and DS3s.


-Matt

Forbes Mercy wrote:


Matt,

I don't know how you can be such a fan of XO's.  We just bought an ISP that has service through 
them.  They charge portability and FCC charges on EVERY line which is not required by law but also 
isn't done by any other phone company.  It adds nearly $8 per line which really adds up.  I asked 
them to justify it and they said my favorite corporate line It's just our policy but 
they added even if it's not correct.   What a weird thing to say.  Sure they are way 
more dependable than companies like Eschelon/ATG and more honest than NTI but with taxes that 
aren't necessary they aren't much better than Qwest.

Forbes Mercy
CEO - Washington Broadband, Inc.
www.wabroadband.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(509) 853-0858


-Original Message-
From:   Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Mon 8/29/2005 9:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: 
Subject:Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get 
principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

   


I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:



 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

  

   


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
  Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out

in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from

any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
 

from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
   


way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional

groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data

sent.
  If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could

not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list

for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the

session. Just like most of 

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Matt Liotta

We got roof rights at Level3's regens, but we lease dark fiber.

-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

I can get LVL3 and Wiltel to do it but only at a OC3 commit. Roof 
rights are iffy as the hut is own by ATT and
they STILL claim not to own this fiber route. LVL3 says they do (and 
lease 2 pair running OC-192's on them).
Wonder what DF will cost, to bad they dont terminate where i need them 
to.


Jeromie Reeves


Matt Liotta wrote:

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. 
All the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according 
to the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
got

quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
national

group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] GOOGLE Maps - Marketing PROPOSAL

2005-08-29 Thread Tom DeReggi
I'm not that worried about other WISP competition.  Generally they already 
do their best to find what other WISP might be in town and call for a 
compeitive quote before closing. Plus we general pass referrals back and 
forth when we can't serve someone and we know our neighbor can. When 
referring to losing a web client to competition, I was referring to sending 
them to a sight that had EVDO.  Its more likely that EVDO will be deploying 
every where that we would also deploy as we are in a urban/suburban 
environment.  I'd argue that ILECS would make an effort to deploy where 
there was a WISP apposed to avoid them.  There are many reasons why someone 
might want to chose a WISP over EVDO or EVDO over a WISP, and I'm a firm 
believer in the right service for the right job.  But unfortuneately, 
customers rarely know what they want, nor understand how to differenciate 
through misleading marketing material on web sites.  Customer awareness is 
still a problem. People will buy a Verizon service over a WISP solution if 
they are given a choice without a chance for the WISP to help explain the 
differenciating features, because people believe in what they are familiar 
with and frequent advertising they see.  I frequently refer people tht we 
can't serve or that do not meet our profile to EVDO services, but I don't 
want that to happen before we make our pitch to them, so they get a fair 
overview to compare.  So my point still stands, I'd be a fool to steer 
traffic away from my site, if I had it already, to a site that offered 
competitor services.  Just my opinion.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] GOOGLE Maps - Marketing PROPOSAL


Team.. sorry about my long absence...
i'm back now..
Here are the reasons why i believe that linking to ONE website:
http://evdo-coverage.com/wireless-internet-service/
will be beneficial to all participants.

Tom, ok... why steer them away:...
1. your biz's are geo specific. so.. even if your guests went to the
map... they'd only find you again anyways...
2. If you wish... since we are the original members of this map
project.. i can restrict new wisps to ONLY add their locations IF they
are not competing with your territories.. Personally, my interest is
in mapping regions... NOT creating intraregional competition
3. chances are .. NOBODY will click on the link... just having the
words wireless internet is not leading ...

___
As for why these specific terms
Wireless Internet = 800,000 people /m search this in google
wisp = 50,000 people search for this in google per month.
So, I'd rather opt for the higher traffic front page.
http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion


___
As for WHY NOT burried at bottom of webpage...


ok... this is how google works... (all caps used for italics)
and for your own search marketing.. this is important to know..
remember... google is the NEW Yellow pages..

google ranks websites based on (in this order)
1) link terms - search query matches
so... if a million websites like to your site as link: RELIABLE -
http://reliableinter.net

THEN, if someone goes into google and types RELIABLE you're website
is likely to come up top ten. under that word... BUT... what you WANT
is to be found under a search for wireless internet since you're far
more likely to have a qualified lead this way.

2) Key Word Frequency
So, If you are a wisp, then in plain Html, the word WISP needs to be
at about 17% of the total volume of your home page...

3) Key Word Placement
Tom, this addresses your question...
google ranks sites based on NOT ONLY QUANTITY but also,
LOCATION of words... so... a word or a link at the top of the page
will get more points
than a link at the bottom.

I can certainly get you Google Stats...
Yahoo stats are self serve and very similar to googles.. so... just
take the number of visitors you see here:
http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion
and multiply by 20X to see how many people would see your website ...
(google gets about 20X more traffic than Yahoo for tech issues)




On 8/20/05, Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I understood it like this.  We all put those words on our site.  Then
google will rank those words wireless internet really high in hits and
send everyone to the evdo wisp site.  But if all we need is the words,
like Tom said, can I just bury them in the back where no one will see
them and go get dsl?/??

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Tell me again why we would want to steer our prospects interested in
 our service from our website to a website that promotes our competors
 (as well as ourselves), for the hope that maybe they might come back
 to our site again afterwards?

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

 IntAirNet- Fixed 

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I know of a big huge red microwave tower near me.  Al at AT said is it 
not active.  It used to be a main trunk to Chicago.  Any chance of fiber 
at this place???  What do they do when they take down the microwave 
links?  Run fiber?


http://www.americantower.com/OASISPublic/SitePublicPage/SiteBrochure.asp?lngSiteID=220lngTowerID=-1txtCaption=Brochure

It is only 8 miles north of my POP.

Brian

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

I can get LVL3 and Wiltel to do it but only at a OC3 commit. Roof 
rights are iffy as the hut is own by ATT and
they STILL claim not to own this fiber route. LVL3 says they do (and 
lease 2 pair running OC-192's on them).
Wonder what DF will cost, to bad they dont terminate where i need them 
to.


Jeromie Reeves


Matt Liotta wrote:

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. 
All the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according 
to the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
got

quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
national

group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org


Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Tom DeReggi



I'd also like to mention XO is our friend. 
They posted an excellent filing in support of 3650 for contention based 
non-exclusive licensing in favor of WISPs.

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Brian 
  Rohrbacher 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:33 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - 
  WISPBONE
  Is there a list so we can all see the locations? Are you 
  able to get principal members of WISPA any deals?BrianJory 
  Privett wrote: 
  I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.

-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

  
In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.

See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.

Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)


Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


  I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data
sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will
get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

2005-08-29 Thread Jory Privett
I would love a deal like this!

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


Thanks.  Best offer I have now is $1200/month for 5Mbit with a $3000
setup.  Also, 6 months to get setup.

With that pricing, I'm sure you see why I am jealous of $25/Mbit that
some guys get

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 Hey Blair,
 Hit me up if there is anything we can work on together with this whole 
 project.  I think Michwave has fiber in Grand Rapids...

 Blair Davis wrote:

 Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

 Matt Liotta wrote:

 XO's map is available at their web site.

 -Matt

 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
 get principal members of WISPA any deals?

 Brian

 Jory Privett wrote:

 I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is 
 in my area.

 Jory Privett
 WCCS

 - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


 We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
 things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
 switches.

 -Matt

 Anthony Will wrote:

  

 In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a 
 project such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly 
 survive.  I am currently working on a way to get into the Metro 
 area to gain access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in 
 XO's or calpops CO.

 See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
 that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
 south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
 board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
 this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an 
 old friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected 
 to Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  
 Now with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and 
 get some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense 
 we could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone 
 for all of our networks.

 Anthony Will
 Ruralnet Inc.
 www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
 in process of completely reworking a new site.)


 Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

  

 I'm in, Central MN

 Mike Bushard Jr
 Reliable Internet Services
 1st Rate Computers

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Brian Webster
 Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

 Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
 got
 quite
 loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate 
 time to map out
 in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
 POP's,
 fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
 could be from
 any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
 bandwidth to
 sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
 have, we can
 map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
 and long or
 street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
 will map it
 and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
 how far away
 from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
 a way to
 bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to 
 get regional
 groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
 mapping can
 have clickable information about each site if that is included 
 in the data
 sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
 national
 group or
 co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
 company could
 not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
 ideas and
 issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
 started on all
 of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
 cheap
 bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
 backbone for
 the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
 send me an
 email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
 distribution list
 for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
 have an
 online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
 were in the
 session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
 because
 everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
 someone else will
 get it going.



 Thank You,
 Brian Webster
 www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com
 Free World Dialup #481416


 -Original 

Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

2005-08-29 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Title: Message




I can usually make money from day 1 on install.  Install fee + 1st
month almost always covers the cost of my hardware cost.  I own the
radio.  Gas, sales, ADs, and other stuff is not factered.  What kind of
ROI do you guys see?  i know some people wait 6 months.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  
  
  Well if you hire a $30,000 a month
guy, you now have an expense. Divided by 240 working days that $125 a
day or $2500 a month.
  But that doesn't include all the
other expenses such as taxes, management, time to do accounting related
to his employment, expenses assoicated to his time. Before you know it
you'll be paying for gas and vehicle repairs, etc.  If you gave a free
install, targeted a 1 month cash flow positive business, @ $35 a month,
you'd need to do 3 installs a day just to pay the salary initially. 
However, at the end of the month, you'd never need to do another
install to pay that salary. The problem is that rarely happens, he wont
get three done a day and you probably won't get a commitment to start 3
a day either.  So the question is how much capitol do you have and how
many do you NEED to make a day.   If you have $15,000 in capitol
allocated for tech salaries, then  
  you technically could survive with 1
install every other day, and in six months, your salary capitol would
be gone, but his salary would be covered by the monthly fees you were
receiving.  But that would mean 100% of your profit went to the
installer.  But that wouldn't happen, as you have to buy radios, pay
phone bills, you pay your self, etc.   The best bet is to have a
business model that will allow you to charge an installtion fee that
covers the true installation fee. Those markets are hard to find. But
if you can its a winner.  The lowest we go on installation charges is
$200, but we collect $500 from 95% of our subscribers.  But our volume
is lower because of it.  
   
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
   
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Brian Rohrbacher 
To:
WISPA
General List 
Sent:
Monday, August 29, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


Ok, well, I trust this company.  The have experience doing wireless
install, and warranty for 90 days.  I posted the proposed agreement on
the paid list.  They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and
the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not
even do the install.  I have an old retired friend who may work for
50-75 a day on call.  I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB
LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some
programming.  Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a
piece of cake.  He is looking for 30k and insurance.  How many $35 a
month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy.  What
needs to be on his resume?  As you consider this, remember.  I have NO
personal expenses.  I live with my parents, no rent, house payment,
food, ect...  I get no paycheck.  The nearest thing I get for money is
gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks.  My
income goes farther.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  Brian,
   
  By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors 
   
  Thats a big difference. But I'd
call that a marketing expense.
   
  As for $95 installer  The
catch is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work.  If
he will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you
will make out good for only $95.  Make sure you require him to submit
digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter
how good a friend.  What many forget is the cost of management.
Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor.  By
subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so
for only $95 its golden.  Subbing is wise when you are starting out,
because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with
nothing to do, if you employed.  The problem is that employment laws
prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and
results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make
sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns
into 2 days.  Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be
able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer
to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing.  However, my
advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and
only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But
I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It
costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses. 
   
  One of the bigest mistakes you
could make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every
customer you install will put you in a worse financial position. So
estimate 

[WISPA] In the News.

2005-08-29 Thread Dawn

All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_viewnewsId=20050829005365newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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Re: [WISPA] In the News.

2005-08-29 Thread Tom DeReggi

Yes, I find that interesting as well.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - 
From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; 
isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com

Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] In the News.



All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_viewnewsId=20050829005365newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

2005-08-29 Thread Dan Metcalf
Its tough to be a karlnet operator these days, the borg has stopped production
on existing hardware and forcing operators to use different hardware (which is a
lot more expensive and frankly not worth it) ie: kn-250 board - mini-pci
replacement for the kn-205 pcmcia, old price $160 - new boards are $300 and the
software for the mini-pci is $700

Dan


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of John Scrivner
 Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:36 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] In the News.
 
 Rick doesn't like Torinokarlproxibeamasaurus right now. I am guessing he
 is not alone.
 :-)
 Scriv
 
 
 Dan Metcalf wrote:
 
 Rick,
 
 No comment?
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf
 Of Rick Harnish
 Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
 
 NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.
 
 Rick Harnish
 OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Dawn
 Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
 To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
 Subject: [WISPA] In the News.
 
 All,
 
 I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.
 
 http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
 wnewsId=20050829005365newsLang=en
 
 Thanks,
 Dawn
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Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

2005-08-29 Thread Dylan Oliver
Speaking of Charles and cash flow projections, I found Charles' example
available at http://www.wispreviews.com to be a good starting point.
Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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