Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out

in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from

any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional

groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could

not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list

for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the

session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Jory Privett]

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.

-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

> In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
> such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
> currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
> to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.
>
> See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
> am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
> all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
> Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
> Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
> on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
> carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
> could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
> everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
> for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.
>
> Anthony Will
> Ruralnet Inc.
> www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
> process of completely reworking a new site.)
>
>
> Mike Bushard Jr wrote:
>
>> I'm in, Central MN
>>
>> Mike Bushard Jr
>> Reliable Internet Services
>> 1st Rate Computers
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Webster
>> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
>>
>> Hi Brian,
>> Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
>> quite
>> loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
>> map out
>> in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
>> fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
>> be from
>> any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
>> sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
>> we can
>> map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
>> long or
>> street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
>> map it
>> and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
>> far away
>> from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
>> way to
>> bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
>> regional
>> groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
>> have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
>> data
>> sent.
>> If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
>> group or
>> co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
>> could
>> not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
>> issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
>> on all
>> of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
>> bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
>> backbone for
>> the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
>> me an
>> email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
>> list
>> for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
>> online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
>> in the
>> session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
>> everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
>> else will
>> get it going.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> www.wirelessmapping.com 
>> Free World Dialup #481416
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering
>>
>>
>> I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...
>>
>> -- 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get
principal members of WISPA any deals?

Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

  I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.

-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

  
  
In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.

See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.

Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)


Mike Bushard Jr wrote:



  I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data
sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will
get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nice Find ... remote TCP reboot for under $100...

[Tom DeReggi]

Now if they'd only add an auto ping feature per AC 
port, it would be a winner.
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  G.Villarini 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
  'WISPA General 
  List' 
  Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:33 
  AM
  Subject: [WISPA] Nice Find ... remote TCP 
  reboot for under $100...
  
  
  I stumble upon this nice 
  item:
   
  http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=3#anchor1
   
  Remote tcp (web based ) AC reboot, 
  with ups backup and surge suppression on AC and Data lines … not bad for $100 
  or so … I could really use this on some small pops and Business 
  Customers
   
  http://froogle.google.com/froogle?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-27,GGLG:en&q=APC+Back%2DUPS+HS+500
   
  Enjoy…
   
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband 
  Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.767.7466
   
  
  

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  wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: 
  http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  

  No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG 
  Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 
  8/26/2005
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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get 
principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:


I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

   


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out

in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from

any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional

groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could

not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list

for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the

session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Dylan Oliver]

See:

http://www.xo.com/about/network/maps/complete_large.html-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Tom DeReggi]

Title: Message



Brian,
 
>By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors 
 
Thats a big difference. But I'd call that a 
marketing expense.
 
As for $95 installer  The catch is wether 
you can find an installer that guarantees the work.  If he will go out to 
fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you will make out good for 
only $95.  Make sure you require him to submit digital pictures of finished 
work as a criteria to get paid, no matter how good a friend.  What many 
forget is the cost of management. Management labor can cost more than the 
actually installtion labor.  By subcontracting out you are also subing out 
the management headache, so for only $95 its golden.  Subbing is 
wise when you are starting out, because you'd have many days 
where employees would be on the clock with nothing to do, if you 
employed.  The problem is that employment laws prevent you from 
holding a employee responsible for productivit and results, so to employ, 
you are going to have to manage them to make sure things get done on schedule. 
OTherwise the 2 hour install turns into 2 days.  Finding a good 
installer is anothger story. I'd never be able to find it in my market for that 
low. Subcontract rates are closer to $400-$500 an install for the quality 
we are installing.  However, my advise is opposite to what I actually do. 
We do not sub out, and only employ. We decided quality and reputation 
was more important. But I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of 
under $95. It costs us half that just for gas and truck 
expenses. 
 
One of the bigest mistakes you could make is under 
estimate that cost. Because if you do, every customer you install will put you 
in a worse financial position. So estimate high, and if you can prove to be 
efficient down the road, then you can always tweak the business plan 
lower.
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Brian 
  Rohrbacher 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:41 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an 
  investor?
  "In house" for a one man band???  That is what I am.  
  I thought it would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of 
  employees.  It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee 
  work so few and such odd hours?  Where do you find someone to do 
  it?BrianRick Smith wrote: 
  

welcome to the real world.   That million 
will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn into 4 weeks 
behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're not 
responsive    get out and install on your 
own.
 
This, coming from a guy that subbed out intalls at $100 
each until today.   By reading these posts, I'm now convinced that 
it's all coming back in-house.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Friday, August 26, 2005 
1:28 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] 
Taking on an investor?Because I have not left the 
"office" my living room, in 3 days because things keep coming my way.  
Computers, paperwork, a million calls.  No customer support issues, 
just a million things I can't seem to catch up.  And now I'm a few 
weeks behind on installs.  I don't like being 
behind.BrianJohnnyO wrote: 

  Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2 
  hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for  Sorry - guess 
  Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business 
  differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the 
  WISP game on top of building the WISP..
   
  JohnnyO
  
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Thursday, August 
25, 2005 11:57 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: 
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Let me 
clarify.  By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and 
say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a 
door hanger and leave.  I pay my subs a free month for 
refferals.  I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale" 
unless they were too good at it  :)  Then they would call, and 
I'd make the "sale".  The "install guy" is a company who I 
trust.  They will do installs for $95 a head.  I have some 
more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, 
hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for 
comment.Thanks,BrianTom DeReggi wrote: 

  
  

  No. You must do the sales. Trust that to 
  someone else, and you will fail.  It means that you may not be 
  able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be 

Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Tom DeReggi]

Thanks.
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rick Smith 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 6:21 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Taking on an 
  investor?
  
  Oh my, Tom, you hit my nail right on the 
  head.
   
  This is an awesome wakeup call, if no one's read it, take 
  time to read it all the way through and let it soak in.
   
  I'm actually going to PRINT this email and hang it on my 
  wall as a reminder.
   
  I've been outsourcing installs at $100 each and it just 
  soaked in that we really need to be doing the installs 
  in-house.
   
  Read Tom's rambling very 
  carefully !
   
  Well written, Tom, thanks.
   
  R
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom 
  DeReggiSent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:18 AMTo: WISPA 
  General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an 
  investor?
  
  No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone 
  else, and you will fail.  It means that you may not be able to do the fun 
  stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful 
  business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set 
  the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing 
  to work on commission or that will be worth a darn.  I found that you 
  can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me 
  wrong.  It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech 
  in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( 
  a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up 
  yet.  A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to 
  when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until 
  you are onsite.  Then what happens whem the installer needs help, 
  such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof?  Then 
  whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the 
  installer?  You need that 4th person!  Then whose gonna do you book 
  keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best 
  spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? 
  When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to 
  answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get 
  scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor.  At 
  first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can 
  never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole 
  day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have 
  outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call 
  them back hours later because they thought you went out of business.  So 
  before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll 
  that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get 
  things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. 
  Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had 
  wasn't going to last the first month.  Then you start getting 
  subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the 
  radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the 
  competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through 
  another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses 
  fail.
   
  So my advise is... Start out with two people. And 
  use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail 
  that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will 
  just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you.  Go sell today. 
  Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to 
  hire.   Then hire ALL the people you need and play to 
  win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting 
  anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and 
  you go out of business.   
   
  Outsource every technical detail upfront, 
  EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What will 
  determine wether you will succeed is wether you can keep your time allocated 
  more towards sales than management. Management duties will tend to monopolize 
  your time, because they have to be done, and you will continue to loose money 
  until you go out of business. You will learn there are four things you 
  can't outsource in your early years, sales, management,managing your finances 
  (accounting), and lending you money.  Take every opportunity t oearn 
  an extra couple buck on an install like hourly wages to set upo there PCs, and 
  don't get suckered into giving that away for free, you will need every 
  one of thosse dollars to carry you on.  Ifyou leave manag

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Jeromie Reeves]

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according to 
the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out

in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from

any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping 
can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas 
and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the

session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Title: Message




Ok, well, I trust this company.  The have experience doing wireless
install, and warranty for 90 days.  I posted the proposed agreement on
the paid list.  They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and
the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not
even do the install.  I have an old retired friend who may work for
50-75 a day on call.  I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB
LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some
programming.  Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a
piece of cake.  He is looking for 30k and insurance.  How many $35 a
month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy.  What
needs to be on his resume?  As you consider this, remember.  I have NO
personal expenses.  I live with my parents, no rent, house payment,
food, ect...  I get no paycheck.  The nearest thing I get for money is
gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks.  My
income goes farther.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  
  
  Brian,
   
  >By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors 
   
  Thats a big difference. But I'd call
that a marketing expense.
   
  As for $95 installer  The catch
is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work.  If he
will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you
will make out good for only $95.  Make sure you require him to submit
digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter
how good a friend.  What many forget is the cost of management.
Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor.  By
subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so
for only $95 its golden.  Subbing is wise when you are starting out,
because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with
nothing to do, if you employed.  The problem is that employment laws
prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and
results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make
sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns
into 2 days.  Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be
able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer
to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing.  However, my
advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and
only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But
I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It
costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses. 
   
  One of the bigest mistakes you could
make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every customer you
install will put you in a worse financial position. So estimate high,
and if you can prove to be efficient down the road, then you can always
tweak the business plan lower.
   
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
   
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Brian Rohrbacher 
To:
WISPA
General List 
Sent:
Friday, August 26, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


"In house" for a one man band???  That is what I am.  I thought it
would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of
employees.  It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee
work so few and such odd hours?  Where do you find someone to do it?

Brian

Rick Smith wrote:

  
  welcome to the real world.  
That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn
into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're
not responsive    get out and install on your own.
   
  This, coming from a guy that
subbed out intalls at $100 each until today.   By reading these posts,
I'm now convinced that it's all coming back in-house.
  
  
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
  Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
  
  
Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because
things keep coming my way.  Computers, paperwork, a million calls.  No
customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch
up.  And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs.  I don't like being
behind.
  
Brian
  
JohnnyO wrote:
  

Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go
do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid
for  Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we
all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the
1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP..
 
JohnnyO

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
 

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Blair Davis]

Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

Matt Liotta wrote:


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get 
principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in 
my area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops 
CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that 
I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of 
me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board 
anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this 
real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

  


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Hey Blair,
Hit me up if there is anything we can work on together with this whole 
project.  I think Michwave has fiber in Grand Rapids...


Blair Davis wrote:


Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

Matt Liotta wrote:


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
get principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in 
my area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

 


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. All 
the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according to 
the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that 
I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of 
me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board 
anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this 
real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend 
to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, 
one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the 
wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get some real 
pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we could make 
this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for all of our 
networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Forbes Mercy]

Matt,

I don't know how you can be such a fan of XO's.  We just bought an ISP that has 
service through them.  They charge portability and FCC charges on EVERY line 
which is not required by law but also isn't done by any other phone company.  
It adds nearly $8 per line which really adds up.  I asked them to justify it 
and they said my favorite corporate line "It's just our policy" but they added 
"even if it's not correct".   What a weird thing to say.  Sure they are way 
more dependable than companies like Eschelon/ATG and more honest than NTI but 
with taxes that aren't necessary they aren't much better than Qwest.

Forbes Mercy
CEO - Washington Broadband, Inc.
www.wabroadband.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(509) 853-0858


-Original Message-
From:   Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Mon 8/29/2005 9:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: 
Subject:Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get 
> principal members of WISPA any deals?
>
> Brian
>
> Jory Privett wrote:
>
>>I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.
>>
>>Jory Privett
>>WCCS
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
>>
>>
>>We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
>>can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.
>>
>>-Matt
>>
>>Anthony Will wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
>>>such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
>>>currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
>>>to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.
>>>
>>>See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
>>>am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
>>>all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
>>>Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
>>>Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
>>>on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
>>>carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
>>>could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
>>>everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
>>>for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.
>>>
>>>Anthony Will
>>>Ruralnet Inc.
>>>www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
>>>process of completely reworking a new site.)
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike Bushard Jr wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data
sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list
for now and if we get it going w

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

Looks like Wiltell is close to you. We have a wholesale agreement with 
them as well.


-Matt

Blair Davis wrote:


Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

Matt Liotta wrote:


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
get principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in 
my area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

 


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

I wouldn't consider myself a fan of XO and we don't buy lines from them. 
We only buy PRIs and DS3s.


-Matt

Forbes Mercy wrote:


Matt,

I don't know how you can be such a fan of XO's.  We just bought an ISP that has service through 
them.  They charge portability and FCC charges on EVERY line which is not required by law but also 
isn't done by any other phone company.  It adds nearly $8 per line which really adds up.  I asked 
them to justify it and they said my favorite corporate line "It's just our policy" but 
they added "even if it's not correct".   What a weird thing to say.  Sure they are way 
more dependable than companies like Eschelon/ATG and more honest than NTI but with taxes that 
aren't necessary they aren't much better than Qwest.

Forbes Mercy
CEO - Washington Broadband, Inc.
www.wabroadband.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(509) 853-0858


-Original Message-
From:   Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:   Mon 8/29/2005 9:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Cc: 
Subject:Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get 
principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

   


I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:



 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

  

   


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
  Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out

in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from

any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
 

from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
   


way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional

groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data

sent.
  If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could

not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all

of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list

for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the

session. Just like most of these good id

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Blair Davis]

Thanks.  Best offer I have now is $1200/month for 5Mbit with a $3000
setup.  Also, 6 months to get setup.

With that pricing, I'm sure you see why I am jealous of $25/Mbit that
some guys get

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Hey Blair,
Hit me up if there is anything we can work on together with this whole 
project.  I think Michwave has fiber in Grand Rapids...


Blair Davis wrote:


Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(

Matt Liotta wrote:


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
get principal members of WISPA any deals?


Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is 
in my area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

 

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a 
project such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly 
survive.  I am currently working on a way to get into the Metro 
area to gain access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in 
XO's or calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an 
old friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected 
to Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  
Now with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and 
get some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense 
we could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone 
for all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:

 


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
   Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
got

quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate 
time to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to 
get regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included 
in the data

sent.
   If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
national

group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

--
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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Jeromie Reeves]

I can get LVL3 and Wiltel to do it but only at a OC3 commit. Roof rights 
are iffy as the hut is own by ATT and
they STILL claim not to own this fiber route. LVL3 says they do (and 
lease 2 pair running OC-192's on them).

Wonder what DF will cost, to bad they dont terminate where i need them to.

Jeromie Reeves


Matt Liotta wrote:

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. 
All the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according 
to the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops 
CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that 
I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of 
me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board 
anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this 
real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Jory Privett]

I have seen the map.  My question is exactly where are they  and how do I 
gain access to them?  Copper and Fiber are out of the question for me 
because of ILEC pricing so I would have to have some type of wireless link.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get
> principal members of WISPA any deals?
>
> Brian
>
> Jory Privett wrote:
>
>>I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my 
>>area.
>>
>>Jory Privett
>>WCCS
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
>>
>>
>>We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things
>>can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.
>>
>>-Matt
>>
>>Anthony Will wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project
>>>such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am
>>>currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access
>>>to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.
>>>
>>>See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I
>>>am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me
>>>all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in
>>>Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from
>>>Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation
>>>on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest
>>>carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we
>>>could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with
>>>everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment
>>>for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.
>>>
>>>Anthony Will
>>>Ruralnet Inc.
>>>www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in
>>>process of completely reworking a new site.)
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike Bushard Jr wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have,
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the
data
sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution
list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were
in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone
else will
get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PR

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

We got roof rights at Level3's regens, but we lease dark fiber.

-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

I can get LVL3 and Wiltel to do it but only at a OC3 commit. Roof 
rights are iffy as the hut is own by ATT and
they STILL claim not to own this fiber route. LVL3 says they do (and 
lease 2 pair running OC-192's on them).
Wonder what DF will cost, to bad they dont terminate where i need them 
to.


Jeromie Reeves


Matt Liotta wrote:

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. 
All the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according 
to the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
got

quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
national

group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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Re: [WISPA] GOOGLE Maps - Marketing PROPOSAL

[Tom DeReggi]

I'm not that worried about other WISP competition.  Generally they already 
do their best to find what other WISP might be in town and call for a 
compeitive quote before closing. Plus we general pass referrals back and 
forth when we can't serve someone and we know our neighbor can. When 
referring to losing a web client to competition, I was referring to sending 
them to a sight that had EVDO.  Its more likely that EVDO will be deploying 
every where that we would also deploy as we are in a urban/suburban 
environment.  I'd argue that ILECS would make an effort to deploy where 
there was a WISP apposed to avoid them.  There are many reasons why someone 
might want to chose a WISP over EVDO or EVDO over a WISP, and I'm a firm 
believer in the right service for the right job.  But unfortuneately, 
customers rarely know what they want, nor understand how to differenciate 
through misleading marketing material on web sites.  Customer awareness is 
still a problem. People will buy a Verizon service over a WISP solution if 
they are given a choice without a chance for the WISP to help explain the 
differenciating features, because people believe in what they are familiar 
with and frequent advertising they see.  I frequently refer people tht we 
can't serve or that do not meet our profile to EVDO services, but I don't 
want that to happen before we make our pitch to them, so they get a fair 
overview to compare.  So my point still stands, I'd be a fool to steer 
traffic away from my site, if I had it already, to a site that offered 
competitor services.  Just my opinion.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] GOOGLE Maps - Marketing PROPOSAL


Team.. sorry about my long absence...
i'm back now..
Here are the reasons why i believe that linking to ONE website:
http://evdo-coverage.com/wireless-internet-service/
will be beneficial to all participants.

Tom, ok... why steer them away:...
1. your biz's are geo specific. so.. even if your guests went to the
map... they'd only find you again anyways...
2. If you wish... since we are the original members of this map
project.. i can restrict new wisps to ONLY add their locations IF they
are not competing with your territories.. Personally, my interest is
in mapping regions... NOT creating intraregional competition
3. chances are .. NOBODY will click on the link... just having the
words "wireless internet" is not leading ...

___
As for why these specific terms
"Wireless Internet" = 800,000 people /m search this in google
"wisp" = 50,000 people search for this in google per month.
So, I'd rather opt for the higher traffic front page.
http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion


___
As for WHY NOT burried at bottom of webpage...


ok... this is how google works... (all caps used for italics)
and for your own search marketing.. this is important to know..
remember... google is the NEW Yellow pages..

google ranks websites based on (in this order)
1) link terms -> search query matches
so... if a million websites like to your site as link: RELIABLE ->
http://reliableinter.net

THEN, if someone goes into google and types "RELIABLE" you're website
is likely to come up top ten. under that word... BUT... what you WANT
is to be found under a search for "wireless internet" since you're far
more likely to have a qualified lead this way.

2) Key Word Frequency
So, If you are a wisp, then in plain Html, the word "WISP" needs to be
at about 17% of the total volume of your home page...

3) Key Word Placement
Tom, this addresses your question...
google ranks sites based on NOT ONLY QUANTITY but also,
LOCATION of words... so... a word or a link at the top of the page
will get more "points"
than a link at the bottom.

I can certainly get you Google Stats...
Yahoo stats are self serve and very similar to googles.. so... just
take the number of visitors you see here:
http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion
and multiply by 20X to see how many people would see your website ...
(google gets about 20X more traffic than Yahoo for tech issues)




On 8/20/05, Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I understood it like this.  We all put those words on our site.  Then
google will rank those words "wireless internet" really high in hits and
send everyone to the evdo wisp site.  But if all we need is the words,
like Tom said, can I just bury them in the back where no one will see
them and go get dsl?/??

Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Tell me again why we would want to steer our prospects interested in
> our service from our website to a website that promotes our competors
> (as well as ourselves), for the hope that maybe they might come back
> to our site again afterwards?
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>
> IntAir

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Matt Liotta]

Find the closest POP to you on their map and let me know. I can get the 
address from XO, so you can do a path analysis and determine if you can 
do wireless to their roof. Their buildings are generally only 2 stories.


-Matt

Jory Privett wrote:

I have seen the map.  My question is exactly where are they  and how do I 
gain access to them?  Copper and Fiber are out of the question for me 
because of ILEC pricing so I would have to have some type of wireless link.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


XO's map is available at their web site.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 


Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to get
principal members of WISPA any deals?

Brian

Jory Privett wrote:

   

I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my 
area.


Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.

-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:



 


In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.

See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.

Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in
process of completely reworking a new site.)


Mike Bushard Jr wrote:



   


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
  Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have,
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how
far away
 


from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a
   


way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the
data
sent.
  If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution
list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were
in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone
else will
get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I know of a big huge red microwave tower near me.  Al at AT said is it 
not active.  It used to be a main trunk to Chicago.  Any chance of fiber 
at this place???  What do they do when they take down the microwave 
links?  Run fiber?


http://www.americantower.com/OASISPublic/SitePublicPage/SiteBrochure.asp?lngSiteID=220&lngTowerID=-1&txtCaption=Brochure

It is only 8 miles north of my POP.

Brian

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

I can get LVL3 and Wiltel to do it but only at a OC3 commit. Roof 
rights are iffy as the hut is own by ATT and
they STILL claim not to own this fiber route. LVL3 says they do (and 
lease 2 pair running OC-192's on them).
Wonder what DF will cost, to bad they dont terminate where i need them 
to.


Jeromie Reeves


Matt Liotta wrote:

Nope; In fact, I have never run into any carrier that would do that. 
All the dark fiber we lease we get roof rights at every regen.


-Matt

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

Are you able to get XO to break out at a fiber hut where (according 
to the map) they have fiber but no POP?



Jeromie Reeves

Matt Liotta wrote:

We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
switches.


-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain 
access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or 
calpops CO.


See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old 
friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected to 
Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  Now 
with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and get 
some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense we 
could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone for 
all of our networks.


Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
in process of completely reworking a new site.)



Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
got

quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time 
to map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
could be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
have, we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
and long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
will map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
how far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
a way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in 
the data

sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
national

group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
company could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
started on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please 
send me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a 
distribution list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to 
have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who 
were in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die 
because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope 
someone else will

get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.or

Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Tom DeReggi]

I'd also like to mention XO is our friend.  
They posted an excellent filing in support of 3650 for contention based 
non-exclusive licensing in favor of WISPs.
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Brian 
  Rohrbacher 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:33 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - 
  WISPBONE
  Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you 
  able to get principal members of WISPA any deals?BrianJory 
  Privett wrote: 
  I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is in my area.

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other things 
can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their switches.

-Matt

Anthony Will wrote:

  
In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a project 
such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly survive.  I am 
currently working on a way to get into the Metro area to gain access 
to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in XO's or calpops CO.

See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know that I 
am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are south of me 
all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on board anyone in 
Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make this real.  NOW from 
Illanios it really opens up.  I am an old friend to an operation 
on the west side of Chicago connected to Equinix, one of the largest 
carriers hotels in the nation.  Now with all the wisps together we 
could easily afford an OCx and get some real pricing.  And with 
everyone sharing in the expense we could make this licensed equipment 
for a rock solid backbone for all of our networks.

Anthony Will
Ruralnet Inc.
www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are in 
process of completely reworking a new site.)


Mike Bushard Jr wrote:


  I'm in, Central MN

Mike Bushard Jr
Reliable Internet Services
1st Rate Computers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

Hi Brian,
Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It got
quite
loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate time to 
map out
in one location all of the data people send me with locations of POP's,
fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This could 
be from
any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have bandwidth to
sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they have, 
we can
map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat and 
long or
street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I will 
map it
and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see how 
far away
from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out a 
way to
bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to get 
regional
groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The mapping can
have clickable information about each site if that is included in the 
data
sent.
If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a national
group or
co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or company 
could
not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many ideas and
issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread started 
on all
of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to cheap
bandwidth and how we might be able to stitch together an ad hoc 
backbone for
the time being. Anyone who is interested in this project please send 
me an
email with WISPBONE in the subject line. I will create a distribution 
list
for now and if we get it going we can set up a list somewhere to have an
online forum. To date I have no input from any of the people who were 
in the
session. Just like most of these good ideas, I feel it will die because
everyone is too busy with their own business and they hope someone 
else will
get it going.



Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com 
Free World Dialup #481416


-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering


I was told to bring this up after WiNog.  Well...

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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

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Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE

[Jory Privett]

I would love a deal like this!

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Blair Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE


Thanks.  Best offer I have now is $1200/month for 5Mbit with a $3000
setup.  Also, 6 months to get setup.

With that pricing, I'm sure you see why I am jealous of $25/Mbit that
some guys get

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

> Hey Blair,
> Hit me up if there is anything we can work on together with this whole 
> project.  I think Michwave has fiber in Grand Rapids...
>
> Blair Davis wrote:
>
>> Nice map.  Nothing anywhere near me, of course... :-(
>>
>> Matt Liotta wrote:
>>
>>> XO's map is available at their web site.
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>>
 Is there a list so we can all see the locations?  Are you able to 
 get principal members of WISPA any deals?

 Brian

 Jory Privett wrote:

> I would be interested in finding out if one of there switches is 
> in my area.
>
> Jory Privett
> WCCS
>
> - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
>
>
> We have a national wholesale agreement with XO, which among other 
> things can get us very low cost colo and roof rights at their 
> switches.
>
> -Matt
>
> Anthony Will wrote:
>
>  
>
>> In central MN here also.   I would be very interested in a 
>> project such as this.  This is the ONLY way we will truly 
>> survive.  I am currently working on a way to get into the Metro 
>> area to gain access to cheap pipes.  Hopefully we will end up in 
>> XO's or calpops CO.
>>
>> See how easy it is to get something like this started.  I know 
>> that I am south of Mike.  I also know that two other WISPs are 
>> south of me all the way to Iowa.  Now if we can get those guys on 
>> board anyone in Iowa or Illanios is likely close enough to make 
>> this real.  NOW from Illanios it really opens up.  I am an 
>> old friend to an operation on the west side of Chicago connected 
>> to Equinix, one of the largest carriers hotels in the nation.  
>> Now with all the wisps together we could easily afford an OCx and 
>> get some real pricing.  And with everyone sharing in the expense 
>> we could make this licensed equipment for a rock solid backbone 
>> for all of our networks.
>>
>> Anthony Will
>> Ruralnet Inc.
>> www.veryfastinternet.com (please excuse the cheesy site.  We are 
>> in process of completely reworking a new site.)
>>
>>
>> Mike Bushard Jr wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> I'm in, Central MN
>>>
>>> Mike Bushard Jr
>>> Reliable Internet Services
>>> 1st Rate Computers
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>> Behalf Of Brian Webster
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:10 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Nationwide Peering - WISPBONE
>>>
>>> Hi Brian,
>>>Well we led a session that started a dialog on this topic. It 
>>> got
>>> quite
>>> loud at times. The end result was I am willing to donate 
>>> time to map out
>>> in one location all of the data people send me with locations of 
>>> POP's,
>>> fiber hotels and other inexpensive sources of bandwidth. This 
>>> could be from
>>> any source like fiber (lit or dark) or companies that have 
>>> bandwidth to
>>> sell. If there are WISP's who want to share the backbones they 
>>> have, we can
>>> map them too. I basically just need a list of locations by lat 
>>> and long or
>>> street address. If I can get enough different sources of data I 
>>> will map it
>>> and make it available on line. The idea is that WISP's can see 
>>> how far away
>>> from cheap backhaul they really are and then they can figure out 
>>> a way to
>>> bring it to their location. This could also serve as a way to 
>>> get regional
>>> groups together to build a mutually beneficial backbone. The 
>>> mapping can
>>> have clickable information about each site if that is included 
>>> in the data
>>> sent.
>>>If this starts to take off the idea was suggested that a 
>>> national
>>> group or
>>> co-op be formed to manage this backbone so that one person or 
>>> company could
>>> not bring down or segment part of the network. There were many 
>>> ideas and
>>> issues brought up about this. I don't want to get this thread 
>>> started on all
>>> of that. I really just want to see where were are with access to 
>>> cheap
>>> band

Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Title: Message




I can usually make money from day 1 on install.  Install fee + 1st
month almost always covers the cost of my hardware cost.  I own the
radio.  Gas, sales, ADs, and other stuff is not factered.  What kind of
ROI do you guys see?  i know some people wait 6 months.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  
  
  Well if you hire a $30,000 a month
guy, you now have an expense. Divided by 240 working days that $125 a
day or $2500 a month.
  But that doesn't include all the
other expenses such as taxes, management, time to do accounting related
to his employment, expenses assoicated to his time. Before you know it
you'll be paying for gas and vehicle repairs, etc.  If you gave a free
install, targeted a 1 month cash flow positive business, @ $35 a month,
you'd need to do 3 installs a day just to pay the salary initially. 
However, at the end of the month, you'd never need to do another
install to pay that salary. The problem is that rarely happens, he wont
get three done a day and you probably won't get a commitment to start 3
a day either.  So the question is how much capitol do you have and how
many do you NEED to make a day.   If you have $15,000 in capitol
allocated for tech salaries, then  
  you technically could survive with 1
install every other day, and in six months, your salary capitol would
be gone, but his salary would be covered by the monthly fees you were
receiving.  But that would mean 100% of your profit went to the
installer.  But that wouldn't happen, as you have to buy radios, pay
phone bills, you pay your self, etc.   The best bet is to have a
business model that will allow you to charge an installtion fee that
covers the true installation fee. Those markets are hard to find. But
if you can its a winner.  The lowest we go on installation charges is
$200, but we collect $500 from 95% of our subscribers.  But our volume
is lower because of it.  
   
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
   
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Brian Rohrbacher 
To:
WISPA
General List 
Sent:
Monday, August 29, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


Ok, well, I trust this company.  The have experience doing wireless
install, and warranty for 90 days.  I posted the proposed agreement on
the paid list.  They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and
the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not
even do the install.  I have an old retired friend who may work for
50-75 a day on call.  I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB
LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some
programming.  Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a
piece of cake.  He is looking for 30k and insurance.  How many $35 a
month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy.  What
needs to be on his resume?  As you consider this, remember.  I have NO
personal expenses.  I live with my parents, no rent, house payment,
food, ect...  I get no paycheck.  The nearest thing I get for money is
gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks.  My
income goes farther.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  Brian,
   
  >By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors 
   
  Thats a big difference. But I'd
call that a marketing expense.
   
  As for $95 installer  The
catch is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work.  If
he will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you
will make out good for only $95.  Make sure you require him to submit
digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter
how good a friend.  What many forget is the cost of management.
Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor.  By
subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so
for only $95 its golden.  Subbing is wise when you are starting out,
because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with
nothing to do, if you employed.  The problem is that employment laws
prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and
results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make
sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns
into 2 days.  Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be
able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer
to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing.  However, my
advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and
only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But
I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It
costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses. 
   
  One of the bigest mistakes you
could make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every
customer you install will put you in a worse financial position. So
estimate hig

Re[2]: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Barry at Mutual Data]

Hello Brian,

It used to 18 months for ROI...  6 months is doing really good in
my book. Course I got radios that are 6 years old now. Gotta love them
each month.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but if you do not have a written
business plan, then I would suggest you lock yourself up at a hotel or
someplace away from your locality and write a plan. Does not need to b
fancy and you do not need to buy anything canned out there. Google and
find a plan and then rebuild it in Word etc.

You should have proformas worked out for 2 years and most of your
questions will be answered. If you need a basic spreadsheet to get an
idea of where to start, email me offlist. The big thing is "YOU" know
what you have in terms of cash flow and expected growth. "YOU" need to
put that info down on paper to see how it works.

Sometimes realistic expectations are hard to swallow. From experience,
I re-evaluated some things in my business that Charles Wu had
mentioned ( thanks Charles), it was a bitter pill but it made us a
better focused company.

Barry

Monday, August 29, 2005, 2:59:19 PM, you wrote:

   
BR>  I can usually make money from day 1 on install.  Install fee
BR> + 1st month almost always covers the cost of my hardware cost.  I
BR> own the radio.  Gas, sales, ADs, and other stuff is not factered. 
BR> What kind of ROI do you guys see?  i know some people wait 6
BR> months.
 
BR>  Brian
 
BR>  Tom DeReggi wrote: 
  

BR>   Well if you hire a $30,000 a month guy, you now have an
BR> expense. Divided by 240 working days that $125 a day or $2500 a
BR> month.
BR>   But that doesn't include all the other expenses such as
BR> taxes, management, time to do accounting related to his
BR> employment, expenses assoicated to his time. Before you know it
BR> you'll be paying for gas and vehicle repairs, etc.  If you gave a
BR> free install, targeted a 1 month cash flow positive business, @
BR> $35 a month, you'd need to do 3 installs a day just to pay the
BR> salary initially.  However, at the end of the month, you'd never
BR> need to do another install to pay that salary. The problem is that
BR> rarely happens, he wont get three done a day and you probably
BR> won't get a commitment to start 3 a day either.  So the question



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[WISPA] In the News.

[Dawn]

All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

[Rick Harnish]

NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.

Rick Harnish
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] In the News.

All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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Re: [WISPA] Nice Find ... remote TCP reboot for under $100...

[Blair Davis]

I'm trying to find out if it will come back up automatically when AC is
restored after the batteries are drained and it has shut down..

Anyone know?

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  
  
  Now if they'd only add an auto ping
feature per AC port, it would be a winner.
   
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
   
  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
G.Villarini

To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
; 'WISPA
General List' 
Sent:
Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject:
[WISPA] Nice Find ... remote TCP reboot for under $100...



I stumble upon this nice
item:
 
http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=3#anchor1
 
Remote tcp (web based )
AC reboot, with ups backup and surge suppression on AC and Data lines …
not bad for $100 or so … I could really use this on some small pops and
Business Customers
 
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-27,GGLG:en&q=APC+Back%2DUPS+HS+500
 
Enjoy…
 
Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless
Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
 

 
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8/26/2005
  
  

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AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC



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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

[Dan Metcalf]

Rick,

No comment?  

Dan



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Rick Harnish
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.
> 
> Rick Harnish
> OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dawn
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
> Subject: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> All,
> 
> I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.
> 
> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
> w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en
> 
> Thanks,
> Dawn
> --
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> 
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> 
> 
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
> 

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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

[Rick Harnish]

If you can't say anything nice, don't say it at all!  At least that's what
my mama always told me :D  

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482 Office
260-307-4000 Cell
260-918-4340 VoIP
www.oibw.net
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Metcalf
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:28 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.

Rick,

No comment?  

Dan



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
> Of Rick Harnish
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.
> 
> Rick Harnish
> OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dawn
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
> To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
> Subject: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> All,
> 
> I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.
> 
>
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
> w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en
> 
> Thanks,
> Dawn
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> 
> --
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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> 

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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

[Dan Metcalf]

You can't go wrong w/ that advice



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Rick Harnish
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:32 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> If you can't say anything nice, don't say it at all!  At least that's what
> my mama always told me :D
> 
> Rick Harnish
> President
> OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
> 260-827-2482 Office
> 260-307-4000 Cell
> 260-918-4340 VoIP
> www.oibw.net
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dan Metcalf
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:28 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> Rick,
> 
> No comment?
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> > Of Rick Harnish
> > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> >
> > NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.
> >
> > Rick Harnish
> > OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Dawn
> > Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
> > To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
> > Subject: [WISPA] In the News.
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.
> >
> >
> http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
> > w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dawn
> > --
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> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
> >
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
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Re: [WISPA] In the News.

[John Scrivner]

Rick doesn't like Torinokarlproxibeamasaurus right now. I am guessing he 
is not alone.

:-)
Scriv


Dan Metcalf wrote:


Rick,

No comment?  


Dan



 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.

NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.

Rick Harnish
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] In the News.

All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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Re: [WISPA] In the News.

[Blair Davis]

What I have to say about Torinokarlproxibeamasaurus would get me in 
trouble with the FCC so I'll just keep it to myself


$^%%$#^%^%$^%!!



John Scrivner wrote:

Rick doesn't like Torinokarlproxibeamasaurus right now. I am guessing 
he is not alone.

:-)
Scriv


Dan Metcalf wrote:


Rick,

No comment? 
Dan




 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf

Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.

NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.

Rick Harnish
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] In the News.

All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie 


w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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08/26/2005


  



 




--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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Re: [WISPA] In the News.

[Tom DeReggi]

Yes, I find that interesting as well.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - 
From: "Dawn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" ; 


Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] In the News.



All,

I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en

Thanks,
Dawn
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RE: [WISPA] In the News.

[Dan Metcalf]

Its tough to be a karlnet operator these days, the borg has stopped production
on existing hardware and forcing operators to use different hardware (which is a
lot more expensive and frankly not worth it) ie: kn-250 board - mini-pci
replacement for the kn-205 pcmcia, old price $160 - new boards are $300 and the
software for the mini-pci is $700

Dan


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of John Scrivner
> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] In the News.
> 
> Rick doesn't like Torinokarlproxibeamasaurus right now. I am guessing he
> is not alone.
> :-)
> Scriv
> 
> 
> Dan Metcalf wrote:
> 
> >Rick,
> >
> >No comment?
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> >>Of Rick Harnish
> >>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:20 PM
> >>To: 'WISPA General List'
> >>Subject: RE: [WISPA] In the News.
> >>
> >>NO COMMENT! :P  It is not worth my time.
> >>
> >>Rick Harnish
> >>OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>Behalf Of Dawn
> >>Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:34 PM
> >>To: WISPA General List; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
> >>Subject: [WISPA] In the News.
> >>
> >>All,
> >>
> >>I thought this was pretty interesting when I read it.
> >>
> >>http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
> >>w&newsId=20050829005365&newsLang=en
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Dawn
> >>--
> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>--
> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> >>
> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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> 
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
> 

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Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 08/26/2005
 

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Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

[Dylan Oliver]

Speaking of Charles and cash flow projections, I found Charles' example
available at http://www.wispreviews.com to be a good starting point.
Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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